C/D: Sonic Youth's GOO

(those 8-track demos and live versions that appeared on, er, boy I can't remember what EPs around the same time were alright though)

Also:

Dirty Boots!

Dirty Boots baybeeee!

production = piss poor duddy dud

pettibon cover art = classic

search: goo demos.

cover's ace too, although isn't it something to do
with myra hindley or did i dream that ?

If anyone hears it and feels disappointed just be glad you weren't a silly bastard like me and shelled out SIXTEEN FUCKING QUID for Thurston Moore's "Psychic Hearts", possibly the worst album I've ever heard. Any other Youth related project sounds ace to me now as a result.

sundar- wasn't DN remastered? i never got holf of it. if you have can you tell me what do you think of it. thanks.

again. I love daydream and sister and Goo is beautiful rec but I can't rank 'em really. i have seen SY live so I don't know how diff the songs on DN are.

I can't haven't been able to get into their last three albums at all and haven't even bothered with the new one, although I would check them out live if they ever decided to play some place in the midwest again, which they haven't forever.

The thing that is such a let down on later Sonic Youth is that their music sounds lethargic and doesn't have the same energy coming up from the drums. For a couple of years Steve Shelley was tapping into some Keith Moon freakbeatery that was awesome, now the drums just don't have that kind of drive.

kim always has done great vocals. i can't remmeber 'tunic' but she's always been exceptional as a rock n' roll singer.

I really like the 'video album' (or whatever they're called) that SY made for 'Goo'.

With all due respect, Julio, I sincerenly think you're mistaken, or at least when it comes to this track. Dig it out and listen again, then let's discuss. I think it's absolutely vile.

I reread Kim's Spin interview with L.L. Cool J, which inspired the song, and I'm still like, What did he do to deserve this? Their best vid was "Beauty Is in the Eye"...

I like chuck's bit on 'kool thing' too. they are now on a major label and they can get chuck D to guest on a track. I never got the 'down with the kids' thing at all nicole.

Its a good rec.

What's right with it?

In all seriousness, it's less an example of "singing" and more of a recitation. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that part of it, but Gordon's lifelessly deadpan delivery, coupled with what I consider to be a rather churlishly contrived narrative (ooh, look, I'm eulogizing soft-rock demi-goddess Karen Carpenter in a relatively shallow way...am I being ironic? You decide!) renders the whole thing embarassing and unlistenable.

when I listen to music I listen to sound. I find it very hard to concentrate on the lyrics (so I didn't know what it was abt).

''again. I love daydream and sister and Goo is beautiful rec but I can't rank 'em really. i have seen SY live so I don't know how diff the songs on DN are.''

that should be ''haven't'' seen SY live.

Can you walk and chew gum at the same time, Julio?

it's not ironic, i don't think: KC wz a good singer and hers wz a sad story

Inarguably, but I don't feel said story was presented in a necessarily sincere manner in "Tunic." I'm not suggesting that Kim Gordon was intentioally MOCKING Karen Carpenter, but to address this issue so blithely ("you look so underfed") and then augment the story with the most tired cliché in the book (that Karen Carpenter is in heaven and has made friends with fellow dead rock stars and formed a band) is beyond trite. That I find it irritatingly distasteful has less to do with any reverance for the Carpenters and more to do with my disgust at Sonic Youth's pretentiousness.

Goo is uneven, and parts seem forced. "Hey, we need a noise track! We're Sonic Youth, dammit!" (imagined origin of "Scooter + Jinx"). "Hey, we need a song where we scream and freak out! We're Sonic Youth, dammit!" (imagined origin of "Mildred Pierce"). Despite the throwaways, I think it turned out well. I remember thinking when it came out that it was all over for them - "Kool Thing" being the first single (hated it at first, can tolerate it now) and signing to Geffen. No, not quite...that would have to wait until Dirty.

''[Kim]
dreaming, dreaming of a girl like me
hey what are you waiting for - feeding, feeding me
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but I look in the mirror - I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

I'm in heaven now - I can see you Richard
goodbye Hollywood, goodbye downey - hello Janis
hello Dennis, Elvis - and all my brand new friends
I'm so glad you're all here with me, until the very end

dreaming, dreaming of how it's supposed to be
but now this tunic's spinning - around my arms and knees
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but when I open my mouth to sing - I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

hey mom! look I'm up here - I finally made it
I'm playing the drums again too
don't be sad - the band doesn't sound half bad
and I remember mom, what you said
you said honey - you look so under-fed

[background voices singing various covers]

[Kim]
another green salad, another ice tea
there's a tunic in the closet waiting just for me
I feel like I'm disappearing - getting smaller every day
but I look in your eyes - and I'm bigger in every way

she said:
you aren't never going anywhere
you aren't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere
I ain't never going anywhere

goodbye Richard - gotta go now
I'm finally on my own - but Dan's got a gig
keep the love lights glowing - little girl's got the blues
I can still hear momma say: "honey don't let it go to your head"''

oh yeah, love "Tunic"... I feel there's more tribute than piss-take going on, too...

experimental jet set (aside from "bull in the heather") is so much more lamer than daydream nation.

Ok so you prob haven't got it but the main quibble that ppl have with it is that the production doesn't do the riffs any favours. It sounds fine to me though i haven't heard it all the way through for a long while (and only in sections).

Not lame: Teenage Riot, The Sprawl, Eric's Trip, Total Trash, Hey Joni, Candle, Trilogy (Pts. 1-3)

Since that makes up more than half of the album, I'd have to disagree.

i think my favourite sy album is dirty. i didn't realize how good it was initially (it was my first sy album) though i always loved it. but when i listened to murray street which is a very good effort next to dirty dirty happened to be so much more varied so much more dynamic so much more lively i couldn't believe it.

goo is a very fine record and i don't really get what the other alex is on about. the karen carpenter song isn't pure genius lyricwise but which sy song is? sy is not really about lyrics. they take as lyrics whatever they can get. sometimes it turns out to be funny sometimes it turns out rubbish. i couldn't care less.

and karen carpenter's voice is probably the most beautiful voice i have ever heard.

Cop-out argument.

"sy is not really about lyrics."

Strictlly your opinion.

alex- ''and then augment the story with the most tired cliché in the book (that Karen Carpenter is in heaven and has made friends with fellow dead rock stars and formed a band) is beyond trite.''

no alex its a tribute: its a lovely image that's being described (Ok so part opf my brain tells me its a tad corny but still). I don't think they treat KC badly.

Certainly. And, as before, I'm right and you're wrong. Hahahahaha

I saw it in the theater before it got withdrawn! Am I cool or old?

Confusion is Sex (1983) YES
Bad Moon Rising (1985) YES
Evol (1986) YES
Sister (1986) YES
Master=Dik (1987) YES
Daydream Nation (1988) YES
Goo (1990) YES
Dirty (1992) YES
Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star (1994) NO
Made in USA (1995) NO
Screaming Fields of Sonic Love (1995) YES
Washing Machine (1995) NO
Silver Session (For Jason Knuth) (1998) NO
A Thousand Leaves (1998) NO
Goodbye 20th Century (1999) YES
NYC Ghosts & Flowers (2000) NO
Murray Street (2002) YES

the first NO = i lost my job at the wire and wz v.poor and trying to write my book

On a brief listen i like GOO better than DIRTY and both of them way better than DDN and Sistah bettah still and Murray Street best of all. but y'know....

is that an official rec?

Goo is my second favorite SY album after Sister.. The first six tracks or so are incredible. It get a little less interesting towards the end.

Can you listen to "Tunic (Song for Karen)" without wincing?

Yes! Her delivery is perfect! She does sound a little like Will Ferrel doing Janet Reno, but "Don't be saaahd / The band doesn't sound half baad."

http://www.xsilence.net/news-239.htm#239

CD 1
01 Dirty Boots
02 Tunic (Song for Karen)
03 Mary-Christ
04 Kool Thing
05 Mote
06 My Friend Goo
07 Disappearer
08 Mildred Pierce
09 Cinderella's Big Score
10 Scooter and Jinx
11 Titanium Expose
12 Lee #2
13 That's All I Know (Right Now)
14 The Bedroom
15 Dr. Benway's House
16 Tuff Boyz

CD 2
01 Tunic
02 Number One (Disappearer)
03 Titanium Expose
04 Dirty Boots
05 Corky (Cinderella's Big Score)
06 My Friend Goo
07 Bookstore (Mote)
08 Animals (Mary-Christ)
09 DV 2 (Kool Thing)
10 Blowjob (Mildred Pierce)
11 Lee #2
12 I Know There's an Answer
13 Can Song
14 Isaac
15 Goo Interview Flexi

"What do you do when your mom is a skinhead..."

"YOU FUCK HER!"

"...you write a song about her."

Possibly the greatest conversation ever held at a UCI theater or venue.

Also, I mean, SHAKEYMO is on that track playing the key role, Ned!

Wait, was that him? I'm amazed!

i just had to come back and say that this has been making me laugh all night..

"it was all whirlwind, heat and flash. within a week we'd killed my parents and hit the road."

(I just picked up Goo deluxe tonight. This is fucking great. The 8-track version of the album slays. A nine-minute "Blowjob (Mildred Pierce)".)

(custos, i keed i keed)

..but I'm guessing they are the same ones, but remastered. Also, there are two "Lee #2"s. There's the 8-track version, and the studio version, which I'm guessing was slanted for a B-side, but never got used. Which makes sense as "Lee #2" is a complete departure.. very pleasant and poppy. It's another secret reason to get this.

Byron Coley's notes actually irritated me, especially the bit at the front that was more or less saying "IF YOU NEVER HEARD THE ROCK BEFORE YOUR EARS SUCK NYAH NYAH ROCKIST ROCKIST BTW PEEPS OK".

from this site
http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/new.html

Line-up:
Thurston - guitar
Kim - bass
Lee - guitar/vocals
Steve - drums/percussion
J. Mascis - backing vocals
w/ additional percussion by
nick sansano & don fleming

More annoyingly, I got a copy with fucked-up liners that repeat pages several times and leave others out. It's possibly intentional but definitely irritating.

Well, at least, this time, there seems to be more quotes from the band in his liner notes, which is what I was primarily interested in... Wasn't into his Deluxe Dirty liner notes... especially after giving Dirty a good listen, and confirming it sounded like a constipated Goo, but not in a good way.

Seconded...no such repetition in my booklet. Just irritation.

Listened to and/or owned a copy?
Daydream Nation
Whitey Album
Goo (actually listened to this quite a bit in some weird sado-masochistic ritual fashion)
Dirty
Experimental Jet-Set Trash and No Star
SYR1 / SYR3
Sonic Nurse

Have sampled songs here and there from other releases but have heard nothing to disprove my theory. Also saw them live a couple of times in the late 80s / early 90s.

* Sonic Youth (1982)
* Confusion Is Sex, Kill Yr Idols (1983)
* Bad Moon Rising, EVOL, Sister, Master-Dik 12", Ciccone Youth (1985-1988)
* Daydream Nation, Goo, Dirty (1988-1992)
* Experimental Jet Set, Trash, And No Star, Washing Machine, A Thousand Leaves (1994-1998)
* NYC Ghosts & Flowers, Murray Street, and Sonic Nurse (2000-2004)

(The SYR series is its own parallel universe, though not completely unconnected. I left off some other odds and ends here and there like Silver Sessions (for Jason Knuth) for brevity.)

I did this because my appreciation of each "phase" (as I broke it down here) sways up and down in varying degrees. Sometimes, I want to listen to Sonic Nurse.. other times, I just want to here "Inhuman" REALLY fucking loud.

This probably speaks very highly of the band, if my opinion of the albums wavers up and down all around the catalog, all the time. I can't think of too many other bands where I'll revisit and revise my opinion on a band's oeuvre like that.

Currently, I'm re-appreciating the 1994-1998 phase... I don't see this as a sliding scale from the previous one at all! In fact, while it may have been a departure from Dirty, Experimental, etc. is a pretty damn stellar album, better than Dirty by miles -- I say this now of course.

i think goo's a really spotty, flawed album. its got great moments and then really really horrible moments -- which is kind of what's ultimately great about it. from what ive read about the recording process, it seems like they just went hog crazy with the advance form DGC. they set up mics in all corners of the room, the mixes were lousy, they did what they could to salvage it.

I bought the vinyl version of the deluxe edition, largely because Goo was the only SY album I didn't have on vinyl, so I can't say if the CD sounds radically different than the original, but I didn't notice any major changes. The drums on "Dirty Boots" sounded a lot better, but that could also be due to the format. The live version of "The Bedroom", which I did have on vinyl prior to this, sounded better on the Dirty Boots EP, however.

That said, there's an interesting mini-essay by the guy that helped put together the deluxe edition, and all the sonic renovations they made, here: http://www.sonicyouthmedia.com/alt-main/goopop.html

I guess I should download those UC Irvine live show Mp3s while I can, if they are improved.

It's a testament to the writing on this album that the band, per the deluxe edition, probably could have released the songs in demo form and folks would have been cool with that. And SY likely would have "broken through" just as well.

This is the only SY album I really like. I've tried and tried with Daydream Nation and can never get further than a few songs in.

How many others have you tried?

FWIW I think "Washing Machine" is now the correct point of entry for this band.

Goo is a very good album tho.

i could never get into daydream nation either but i had a huge goo phase

goo my fav

Sister and Sonic Nurse are the correct entry points.

Also good albums

Goo and Rather Ripped are the two I will listen to front to back. I go in search of particular tracks on all the others.

I've dabbled in SY. I bought Rather Ripped when it came out and remember enjoying it. Every so often I have a rummage around in their back catalogue and try a random album. Often I'm put off by the fuzziness and lack of low-end, although I get the point, but black metal usually fills that frequency for me better than indie-noise. Now I come to think of it, my first intro to the band was Experimental, Jetset... which I got out the library when I was quite young and was confused by. I haven't heard Washing Machine or Sonic Nurse, but I hear they're good.

It's not my favorite anymore, but honestly EVOL was the entry point for a whole lot of people in the 80s, and I think it's probably a good place to start. My current favorite is NYC Ghosts and Flowers, so not saying anything about quality in hindsight, but the larger world (of music geeks) discovered Sonic Youth via EVOL and the Ciccone Youth single, and it only seems proper to respect that.

Love Evol, hate that Ciccone Youth thing.

My sonic youth love has always been dirty. Their punk album. The long tracks always make me think of the 60s and grateful dead etc. That's not what i like (about this band). Yes it was the first abum i ever heard by them. There is this theory about sy that you love the first album you heard the most..

Sister and Sonic Nurse are the correct entry points.

It was Dirty for me.

Dirty was the first I heard (and it blew me away). I still love a lot of it but I wouldn't rank it as my favourite. It actually struck me as a new kind of psych/prog rock when I first heard it as a teenager!

I've been working through the albums chronologically (obv with other things in between) since I started reading KG's book this week. Just hit play on Goo (90s cassette) now. Love "Dirty Boots" so much.

Something I've been thinking about is the extent to which the often-criticized out-of-tune singing might actually be necessary/appropriate over the intentionally detuned guitars, although I do think that their intonation as vocalists is less controlled/deliberate than their intonation as guitarists.

EVOL is the shit, dl. Creamy genderfucked lunacy. Absolute high point of "indie rock" imo

washing machine was my intro... what can i say it worked

Kind of funny how they start to just sound out of tune when you overdose on them for a week.

Anything SY (discounting the SYR) after 1986 is basically a refinement on EVOL (not an improvement on, imo although YMMV)

BMR points to EVOL but lacks the tunes n noise structure of the latter that would basically set them up for the next 20 years

i remember being 13 and confused as to whether i should be impressed or disgusted by what i heard. like, "this is COOL? this sounds kinda bad."

oh to be able to recover that teenaged feeling

30 years old today, was it ever polled?

My favorite Sonic Youth album.

Just listened to and half-watched the videos from the Corporate Ghost DVD. What stands out rn is that the sound of it is really good: naturalistic but really clear and full, with a satisfying crunch in the guitars. There's almost a lightness in the way the songs zip along tunefully and groovily. I don't entirely disagree with some of the criticisms of the lyrics of "Tunic" upthread.

https://www.spin.com/2020/06/dont-give-me-your-soul-the-oral-history-of-sonic-youths-goo/

First album of theirs that I ever listened to and loved as a 14-year-old crusty hardcore punk kid. Totally changed my life...

but when I listen to it now, there are only a few really good tracks on it...though I will say that it contains Lee's finest moment in the band, afaic, with "Mote."

It's the weakest of their mainstream trilogy

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2176/9085/products/Steely_Dan_2048x2048.jpg?v=1569111560

Listening for the first time in ages, and I think this might be as good as "Daydream Nation." The songs and arrangements are really strong imo and the hooks bigger, and underscoring both it starts with "Dirty Boots." And then goes right into "Tunic (Song for Karen)." And there are so many great twists and turns, like that brief major key(ish) break in "Cinderella's Big Score" or the megaphone-mic in "Mote" or the total shriek-and-noise explosion at the end of "Mildred Pierce" (which may be as abrasive as they get), or "Mary-Christ," which reminds me of "Tony's Theme" by the Pixies ...

Good and strong on tonight’s listen.

Seriously, I don’t know why this record hasn’t gotten as much play as others of theirs with me.

I think that when they come back in on the main riff sped up on "Titanium Expose" is a really exciting. I love that part.

I bought this CD when it came out. I doubt I listened to it a half dozen times.

Something about "Mildred Pierce" is like a perfectly tuned engine to me (and weirdly it's their only song in standard tuning). I think "Disappearer" is my overall favourite, followed closely by "Tunic".

So the album cover design is a meme I’ve seen on t shirts
I have the steely Dan one. today I saw a Harris /waltz. So dumb

A Mulligan and O'Hare/Sonic Youth mashup. pic.twitter.com/TkY1WkfAa6

— Stuff_By_Mark (@The_Ren1981) December 29, 2021

Reading the thread in full and absolutely baffled by the hate for Tunic! But you can't go back in time and argue with people from 20 years ago.

only one way to find out

Reading the thread in full and absolutely baffled by the hate for Tunic! But you can't go back in time and argue with people from 20 years ago.

― Etherwave, Monday, March 31, 2025 6:27 AM (thirteen minutes ago)

yeah it's wild. "Tunic" is the best song on the album, maybe top 10 (5?) SY songs for me.

For what it's worth, I *COMPLETELY* take back my horrible dismissal of "Tunic (Song for Karen)" in my question, here. Totally uncalled for. I was a terrible person.

it happens to the best, and also the worst, of us

if Lee would have written a better ending to Mote then that would have been my favorite song on the album. Now it just kinda goes nowhere for a while at the end.

I find that quite a few great SY songs end terribly

Haha amazing - I didn't even have to pick a fight with 20 years ago. Isn't it amazing how time can change your mind on music like that?

This album wasn't my introduction to Sonic Youth. But I think it's one of those records that gets the balance between pop and noise absolutely perfect.

This album was my introduction to Sonic Youth. I got it as part of one of those Columbia House club deals: 7 CDs for a penny or something like that. It was a while before I heard their earlier stuff.

August 21, 1990, Tower Records SF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX7gDRcAWtM

Blowjob?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi_1krnCvRE

^ SY at their most "rawk!"

yeah that's pretty great

i was at that tower records parking lot show. people threw bagels at the band at one point.

*OOOOF* is GOO ever pretentious! Are you kidding me? Can you listen to "Tunic (Song for Karen)" without wincing? Kim Gordon should be slapped with a large, frozen sea-bass for that.

nope.

As in I disagree! VOCIFEROUSLY!! Glad you have changed your mind on this too, Alex.

This is one of my least-fav SY records - I feel like Dirty does the big rock thing more interestingly/viscerally. But there are still great songs on it - the second half is stronger than the first, to me, but Tunic and Mote are my favourite songs off it.

yah the fact it's bookended by Daydream Nation and Dirty always makes me forget about it

Much prefer Goo to Experimental Jet Set, Washing Machine, Thousand Leaves, The Eternal

Jet Set and Washing Machine are two of my absolute favourites, tbh, though I know I'm firmly in the minority on the first, at least.

that tower records vid is fantastic, thanks for posting.

oh i love Jet Set, Bull in the Heather is such a great video too. And if I've gleaming date information correctly from both Kim and Kathleen's biographies the video was quite possibly shot in the week that Cobain took his life.

Always interesting for me to see SY experts like stevie having a wildly different canon to mine!

At this point I think I've been through the cycle of having almost every sonic youth album be my favourite at one time or another (I think the only exceptions are NYCG&F and the last two)

Always interesting for me to see SY experts like stevie having a wildly different canon to mine!

tbh my canon shifts all the time! and I feel I have violently subjective sy loves - like, I think the title track to NYCGAF is one of the best things they ever did (and don't get me started on how great Rather Ripped is)

I've at least liked every album since 1987.

and I'm a fan of those mid '00s releases, some of their richest work imo

my current holy trinity is Bad Moon Rising, Washing Machine, Murray Street. But that will change.

I definitely couldn't choose just one.

I've at least liked every album since 1987 1985.

Just a remarkable catalog, consistently great records. There's not one I dislike.

I think the title track to NYCGAF is one of the best things they ever did

I think that one and the opening track are both amazing, it's the whole middle of the album that doesn't quite work, though I don't hate it

it's the only one I am not positive I've ever listened to all the way through. I will rectify that tonight.

I'm also weirdly unfamiliar with the last album; listened to it a fair amount on release I guess, but haven't revisited it in recent memory.

Bad Moon through Experimental is just an incredible run of exceptional albums to me.

...and yet Washing Machine is better than anything since Daydream Nation.

I think the title track to NYCGAF is one of the best things they ever did

We're agreed on that and I like the whole alb. When I saw that get a fairly hostile reception doing their 'modern classical' thing at the South Bank, they encored with a very powerful fuck you version of NYCGAF that I would like to have a boot of.

when I saw THEM

ooh you know I think I did once have a boot of that

several hard drives ago tbh

may be mixing it up with mp3s of the gig with spiritualised at rfh

My favs right now are Washing Machine, Sonic Nurse and Sister. But this could change any given day.

Washing Machine is my latest love, No Queen Blues might be most played on my spotify.

i confess that washing machine and 1000 leaves are albums that I never fell in love with, despite liking them just fine. Probably need to give them more listens.

1000 Leaves can be hard work for me - the opening track is a slog - but when it catches fire, like on Sunday or Wildflower Soul - it is brilliant. Still unconvinced by Hits Of Sunshine, but it makes more sense as I become more Dead-friendly. Some fantastic work by Kim - French Tickler, Ineffable Me - and Snare Girl and Heather Angel end the record so well.

goo is my favourite sy

I saw sonic youth 4 times (1993, 1993, 1995, 2008) and the 1995 date was sooooooo good, leagues ahead of the others, the only time when they sounded like I wanted them to live

so i have a real soft spot for experimental jet set and washing machine cos those tracks ruled at that gig

First time I saw them was 95 and The Diamond Sea split my skull open and made wonderful things happen

Also saw Sonic Youth four times, and the end-of-the tour show was leagues ahead of the other three early-tour gigs.

Goo was the first SY album I waited for and bought on release. Like a lotta folks, I was caught up in the hype for Daydream Nation — not least by the huge article in … was it “Guitar Player” mag? “Guitar for the Practicing Musician”? I thing it was “Guitar Player” — the biggest article I’d ever seen on a single artist, going deep into their tunings & such. I was already drifting towards indie rock, but this yanked me straight over the edge and I never bought another Dokken record again.

First time I saw them was 95 and The Diamond Sea split my skull open and made wonderful things happen

― conspiracitorial theories (stevie), Friday, April 11, 2025 4:35 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

YES

35 today

what a great thread to revive, real taste of the old school here

Coco turns 31 on Monday.

Never liked this album, and this was the only time I ever saw SY live (on the Neil Young tour), but I'm listening to the demos on the deluxe edition now and they sound very much like Sonic Youth songs. So I guess it was the blandified major label production/mastering that put me off.

totally. IIRC they released those demos as a fan club CD, and then remixed? remastered? them for the deluxe edition reissues. when the deluxe came out it was like, wow these sound really great! something about the regular album always had an off sound to me as well and I'm generally ok-to-delighted with cost no object 80s/90s productions. there's something sort of.... placed in a psuedo-surround space about the mix? as if the whole thing was run through one of those 90s bookshelf stereos with presets for "Jazz Club", "Stadium"... etc...

To me it doesn't sound much different from "Daydream Nation". IMO "Dirty" is the one where they kinda fucked up the sound.

"Daydream Nation" and "Goo" both produced by same guy. On "Dirty" they brought in Butch Vig.

I used to love this album in the 90s, but put it on sometime in the last year and couldn't really stand listening to it, I guess it's the mastering/mix that felt oppressive but I was somehow immune to this when I was younger? Or maybe it sounded better on the cheap boombox I used back then?

I will check out the demos on the deluxe edition (which I actually own on CD, but not sure I ever bothered listening to the demos)

IMO "Dirty" is the one where they kinda fucked up the sound.

weirdly I love the way Dirty sounds, though it is an outlier in their catalog with regards to that, very bright

I kind of like that aspect of it, really sharpens the guitars.

I always thought it sounded a bit harsh, even when I wasn't an old fogey.

Recalling now how excited I was to learn in the advance hype that Chuck D was gonna be on it, then so disappointed he didn't actually rap. In retrospect, probably a good move!

"Daydream Nation" and "Goo" both produced by same guy.

Goo was mixed by Ron Saint Germain, whose credits are extremely wide-ranging but who goes for a big, polished sound.

Funny, I always thought the albums he worked on, at least the ones I am most familiar with that he produced, sound kind of dull and muddy. Thinking Bad Brains, Living Colour, lotta hard rock stuff. Badmotorfinger sounds awesome, though.

Last time I listened to Goo on headphones I heard all sorts of overdubs and studio tricks I'd never noticed before.

The mix is lusher and the vocals sound better recorded on Goo than DN (they had a lot more money to spend on the recording) but to me they still sound more similar than either vs. Dirty.

Interesting to see complaints about the sound/mastering/mix when the problem with it is that the songs aren't good.

yeah Goo and Daydream sound more similar to each other than any pair from SY's first 10 or so albums. both great imo even if there's very little room for debate as to which is better.

Interesting to see complaints about the sound/mastering/mix when the problem with it is that the songs aren't good.

RONG

Dirty Boots, Mote, Disappearer, and Mary-Christ are all excellent, with Mote being Lee’s best SY track afaic.

the album does go downhill after Midred Pierce but yknow.

oh man I love "Cinderella's Big Score" and "Titanium Expose," those are like Daydream Nation-scale epics to me

“What do you do when your mom’s a skinhead?”

Dirty Boots rulez

love titanium expose. i didn't realize they made a video for it lol.

I remember someone here imagining that Goo was the sound of SY trying as hard as possible to sell out and basically failing. I always liked that reading.

yeah Goo and Daydream sound more similar to each other than any pair from SY's first 10 or so albums. both great imo even if there's very little room for debate as to which is better.

― some dude,

DN is one of my least favorite SY albums and imo the biggest sacred cow in their oeuvre
i honestly prefer goo, disappearer is almost top tier plus tuff boyz from the deluxe reish has some delicious input jack abuse

I love Mote. Like a gothy Dino Jr?

huh I guess I need to check out the deluxe version

this rec is good but I like at least a half dozen of theirs way more

this is a great sounding album IMO

DN is one of my least favorite SY albums and imo the biggest sacred cow in their oeuvre

how so?

I like listening to this record on hot days

raise your hand if you had the Goo video VHS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eySTnQt5jCE

xxp you mean how come i don’t like it? or sacred cow-ness

maybe i can kill 2 birds, i think they are more self-aware of their rock lineage on that album, and that this is something they’re uneasy with and it curbs some of their more destructive tendencies

i think when people say it’s their “most accessible”, that’s what is meant (evol is full of instantly catchy pop hooks; dn is not)
it is their worst 80s album imo.

hm, interesting, IMO DN is more accessible and more full of hooks than Evol, for sure!

“Kool ting” is the only thing I revisit. Is there a dub version ?

xp EVOL was my gateway into SY, and that was after hearing DN which to this day never clicks for me.

not to be weird but do the DN haters smoke weed? i honestly think that the album is much more chilled out than most of their others of the era, perhaps a sign of certain tendencies that would later really annoy their more noise/rock fans.

i always loved it, even have a copy on vinyl, but i really do think that might be it.

When i do a POX or top 20 tracks with SY, tho, Evol and Sister rule the roost

not to be weird but do the DN haters smoke weed?

You gotta watch the mota...

DN>>>>G00

xp EVOL was my gateway into SY, and that was after hearing DN which to this day never clicks for me.

same

So one of the conditions of SY’s music through at least the 80’s is they can’t pull off the manic, effervescent thrills proprietary of unstudied teen “pop” (substitute garage/punk/etc), they have to find more novel, roundabout ways to achieve the kind of spunk and sass recognizable as the rebellious teen energy they are unable to deliver by dopamine hit. Sometimes their approach to this is more or less intellectualized- they’re very good at that - but often they’re able to pull it off through accumulated spontaneous acts of daring that become their own language for a time. They are constantly struggling against the weight of a history they would prefer to be unburdened by dragging them down (kill yr idols etc), and DN is the moment they succumb. After that, they have to reassess and plot a new course to an extent.

Is the other way to see it is (just guessing, idgi) that dn is where they finally succeed at streamlining their whole messy Sonic Youth thing into a very streamlined classic rock record? but this

more full of hooks than Evol

is utterly baffling to me, we’re onto some yanny/laurel shit

not to be weird but do the DN haters smoke weed? i honestly think that the album is much more chilled out than most of their others of the era, perhaps a sign of certain tendencies that would later really annoy their more noise/rock fans.

i mean ATL is the obvious stoner album it’s downright hippyish by SY standards (it’s in the pavement tuning, is almost jam bandesque, has a lot of loopy fx pedals etc)
and that is the one i go back to the most, having burned myself out on bad moon rising and evol ages ago
i love that one and don’t like dn in any case

i get what you’re saying in a way- it is missing the simmering, seething tensions and violent outbursts of their early albums.

xp EVOL was my gateway into SY, and that was after hearing DN which to this day never clicks for me.

same *and i smoked a ton of pot in those days* fwiw, t

i think it would be fun to hear an edit of DN that is just the vaporous intros that abruptly cut off on the downbeat of each of the applicable songs.

"Hoarfrost" is sometimes my favorite SY song, certainly my favorite Ranaldo.

ATL has the best lee songs for sure.

also think DN redefines what ‘the sonic youth language’ is in a way that overly emphasizes sonic youth harmony (since it follows rock convention in many other ways) and that they walk this back a little on Goo.

"Hoarfrost" is sometimes my favorite SY song, certainly my favorite Ranaldo.

no way, Mote is the one

i like ATL but it’s truly not to my style, fwiw i am also baffled by how popular Pavement were/are

i think mote is where he’s there steve diggle, but maybe i’m just saying that cause it vaguely reminds me of harmony in my head
the several pavement songs i love are the guiltiest of guitly pleasures, i’m allergic to malkmus

*their

i think mote is where he’s there steve diggle, but maybe i’m just saying that cause it vaguely reminds me of harmony in my head

i would say that’s a reach, but okay, i mean “Hoarfrost” displays pretty much everything i loathe about that general period of SY so we’re never going to agree here lol.

I don't rate Ranaldo much as a writer beyond eight or nine songs (bangers tbc), and "Hoarfrost" puts his Beat-damaged poetry and his spaciness in the most attractive of lights.

That award goes to either Skip Tracer or In the Kingdom #19, imho

Oh, the latter's on that list.

Lee’s stuff better read than heard

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312274139/heightsofthemarvelous/
i remember a few of my pals in high school passing this book around to have a giggle at the lee ranaldo contributions which were laughably awful

i would say that’s a reach, but okay, i mean “Hoarfrost” displays pretty much everything i loathe about that general period of SY so we’re never going to agree here lol.

Whenever I’m in doubt about things I do
And I feel so heavy that I just can’t stop it


IMO "Dirty" is the one where they kinda fucked up the sound.

Dirty was my second SY - purchased super-cheap vinyl copy of BMR in 92 as a Nevermind-obsessed 16yo wanting to explore the prehistory, which broke my brain for a fair while - and I love it still, the boldness of it, the accessibility, while still being solidly leftfield and challenging. Went back to Goo a while later, after hearing most of the others, and it disappointed me in that context. I still find it a little hard-to-love as an album, though Tunic has always been one of my favourite jams. It feels backloaded to me now - the tracks I really love are the longer, more drawn-out jams like Titanium Expose and Cinderella's Big Score, they hit harder than the title track or Dirty Boots, which feels like it's trying to rerun faded DN glories.

I don't rate Ranaldo much as a writer beyond eight or nine songs (bangers tbc), and "Hoarfrost" puts his Beat-damaged poetry and his spaciness in the most attractive of lights.

NYCGAF does it best for me. The building intensity of his final lines on that, this sorrowful obituary for everything New York was and will never be again, that blackened noise behind him - chills, every time.

Re: DN-haters. Blows my mind too, but I remember Lou Barlow telling me he always hated that record and never saw the point of it when it came out, thought it sounded like Zeppelin.

I hard agree with whoever said that about Dirty— after ATL and NYCGaF, it’s my least favorite SY album. nothing except Youth Against Fascism sticks for me, whereas I can name and sing songs from each of their other albums. Just bad songwriting imho.

Lou Barlow would say that, because he has never written a good song . (Sorry I hate him and Sebadoh)

Dirty's the Sonic Youth I came in on, and it's always been my favorite. Goo is also great.

Daydream Nation has some classic moments for sure, but goddamn do I hate Teen Age Riot and it makes me never want to listen to the album. Silver Rocket is better, but still not a great opener. It occupies a filler role for me. Things don't get kicking for me until The Sprawl.

I like Dirty a lot -- where Goo sought more pop settings for their earlier experiments, Dirty is a full-on attempt to write concise tunes with verses and choruses and such. The CD-era length exacerbates what people dislike about it.

I posted in the Dirty thread that "Theresa's Sound-World" is my favorite SY let's-bask-in-pretty-sounds-for-its-own-sake moment.

I like all of DN, start to finish. Again, crazy to me that people like Dirty more than DN. I don’t think I have listened to Dirty more than three times in the past 20 years, and each time I was reminded of how much I hated it lol

All these posts made me realize that while there is some Sonic Youth I like more than other Sonic Youth, there is probably no Sonic Youth I hate. And yet, I rarely actually want to listen to Sonic Youth.

I think i listen to them every day

This thread made me pull out DN again, and I do love the way it sounds. I'm not sure Goo would've been better were it mixed that way, but I love the space around the instruments on DN. Sounds a bit jazzy almost. Maybe I should check out those Goo demos.

I'm with you, Josh. There are just some SY records I don't love nearly as much. Goo is one of them.

And Daydream Nation fucking rules.

For me, BMR was my "beamed directly from heaven OMG this is my favorite new band ever" moment, I saw the EVOL/Sister/DN/Goo tours, etc. Speaking as a relatively early convert, I was very into DN when it came out, but my closest music-fiend friends all turned their noses up at the production and almost-major-label sheen. I remember one friend said "their noise used to go through you, now it just comes at you". Goo just built on this iirc, and changed nobody's minds about the band. lol I also remember playing Dirty for a friend in like 2000, and her saying "how come my friends didn't tell me this was AWESOME".

Apart from sharing an in-ear headphone with a friend listening to Sister, at school, my first main exposure to SY was the CD singles from Dirty. 100% and Sugar Kane still remain as my favourite of their tunes. Add in the cover of Personality Crisis and the infamous, Genetic, I fell in love.

Sister remains my favourite though. I have a strong love of Murray Street and everything after.

Genetic rules <3 (and yeah I know the story)

I bought every one of those singles on release - especially love the acoustic "Purr"

xxxp Lou rules, and would've hated anything inspired by J Mascis (for President). i think i bought Daydream Nation and Bug on the same trip to the record store.

i was a megafan and superstoked when DN came out, also being way into acid and sci-fi at the time. our band is cyberpunk rock

one of the coolest things about DN is the rainforest drone before Hey Joni kicks in

Lou Barlow would say that, because he has never written a good song . (Sorry I hate him and Sebadoh)

eh, I think he's written a bunch of great songs, and while I disagree with him over DN I can see his point - it's definitely a jumping off point, if your thing was the no wave/industrial clank of, say, BMR.

I posted in the Dirty thread that "Theresa's Sound-World" is my favorite SY let's-bask-in-pretty-sounds-for-its-own-sake moment.

Absolutely. And totally overdriven, eardrum-poppingly-loud pretty sounds. The big crescendos on that (and Wish Fulfilment, tbh) always make me think of that apocryphal story, of the pigeon that flew in front of the insanely loud speakers at some 1970s festival Alice Cooper were playing, and the bird just exploded due to the volume of the sound (IANAS but I don't think that's actually possible) and sometimes I think that's how I'd like to go.

while there is some Sonic Youth I like more than other Sonic Youth, there is probably no Sonic Youth I hate

this is absolutely me, and also the records I like most and least shift place in the line-up all the time.

Dirty is a brilliant dumb rock record with a brilliant smart rock record hiding within the din.

I like that people have such varying takes on SY but my favourites have remained pretty fixed for a while now - DN and EVOL at the top; Dirty and Goo would be next after those. I suppose I like them best when they do pretty or blissed-out, or when the noisiness is contained within something that rocks in a relatively conventional way.

I don't hate any of their proper albums (I do hate the Master-Dik EP) and the ones I like least are not especially controversial choices I don't think (NYC G&F, Experimental Jet Set, maybe The Eternal).

I would say that Goo has the best drum sound since EVOL - that muffled sound on Sister or the biscuit tin snare on Daydream aren’t great imo

full admit that i have never listened to Rather Ripped or The Eternal because I hated Sonic Nurse so much… i should probably resolve that.

RR is the even catchier version of Sonic Nurse, my album of 2004 and still one of my benchmarks for a band 20+ years out recording essential music.

yeah so i will listen but with some reservations because that sounds exactly like what i hated about Sonic Nurse.

If Dirty and Experimental Jetset.... didn't work for you, then Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped might sound like updates toughened by a decade of experiments.

Experimental Jet Set is actually in my top 5 SY albums.

Sonic Youth brings out the freaks, that's all I'm gonna say.

full admit that i have never listened to Rather Ripped or The Eternal because I hated Sonic Nurse so much…

Rather Ripped is fantastic - Sonic Youth recording a pop album at the exact moment their deal with Geffen ended.

Experimental Jet Set is actually in my top 5 SY albums.

That makes two of us.

what is hateable about Sonic Nurse, I don't get it

Sonic Youth recording a pop album

An indie album, you mean. These songs are as bland as fucking REM.

REM are great

Sonic Nurse is Top 5 for me. On the right day, it's my favorite.

Yeah I love Sonic Nurse (and Murray Street and Rather Ripped, they were on a good run there).

imo they never put out a bad "proper studio LP", well idk about The Eternal (need to relisten there) but everything else is good-to-great

The Eternal is by no means bad, but it feels a little bereft of any new ideas — if they'd stayed together, they might've started heading in some other directions. I remember that stuff sounding good live.

RR has that rapture song which I love unconditionally, peak Thurston. plus Lee doing "Rats"

The Eternal is by no means bad, but it feels a little bereft of any new ideas — if they'd stayed together, they might've started heading in some other directions. I remember that stuff sounding good live.

Yeah, this is where I'm at with it as well. Anti-Orgasm was crazy exciting - but there didn't seem to be a concept or sound they were pursuing, whereas a lot of the later Geffen LPs were pretty brave stylistic shifts (the jammy, discursive Murray Street, the tight, songraft-y Rather Ripped, which IIRC was inspired by Coco's love of the Friends theme tune, etc). The Eternal felt like a holding pattern record, and I remember liking a lot of it, but I don't find myself going back to it much.

I like The Eternal a lot. It did seem like something of a transitional album at the time, which I usually find kind of exciting. Too bad the transition was the end of the band.

Sonic Nurse is Top 5 for me. On the right day, it's my favorite.

― Blood On The Knobs, Tuesday, July 1, 2025 12:23 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i guess i listened to it like ten times when it came out, then sold the CD because i loathed it. another to revisit— maybe my early 20something self was on some other shit!

(i do distinctly remember that this was the summer that i was getting really, really into American Primitive stuff and the "new weird America" vein of music, so i might have just been too Animal Collective- and Kottke-pilled at the time to find a rock band very exciting.)

(also the summer where i listened to On the Beach every day)

Nurse feels like a strong follow-up to Murray St to me, perhaps a little weirder but still in that jammy, melodic envelope. Esp loved Unmade Bed (melancholic rocker that might've slipped onto Ragged Glory), whatever they ended up titling the song about Mariah Carey's breakdown and the closing Peace Attack, which is just lovely.

Weird thing is I loved a lot of Nurse but looking at the song titles now I couldn't whistle half of them to you with a gun to my head. Not that the songs aren't strong, they just aren't particularly connected to the song titles in my head.

LOL @ Kottke-pilled!

(also the summer where i listened to On the Beach every day)

backed. hope you had some honey slides to go with it.

Nurse feels like a strong follow-up to Murray St to me, perhaps a little weirder but still in that jammy, melodic envelope.

Absolutely. It's also benefits from such a great, dreamy production. It's a very unique record in their catalog. Washing Machine is my favorite -- Sonic Nurse is adjacent to that record's pastoral weirdness.

Thurston, Kim, and Lee were definitely hip to the New Weird America. They wer hanging with Wooden Wand, Sunburned Hand of the Man, etc. Witchy Massachusetts...

Oh totally, but I couldn't hear it in the records in the way that I wanted, at the time. I am downloading them/looking manically through my boxes of CDs lol.

the pigeon that flew in front of the insanely loud speakers at some 1970s festival Alice Cooper were playing

I thought this was Blue Cheer and a dog

Okay, so obviously there's a thread for it, but since the discussion has been happening here, I want to talk about it here.

I actually remembered much of Murray Street, including the funny little phrasing that happens when Thurston sings "the secret Mona Lisa hides behind her smile." It's a nice album.

Listening to Sonic Nurse, I think that I just think it's too chill. It sounds like SY on a bongrip and half a Xanny bar— so while the songs themselves are nice enough, it has little of the punk aggression that made me fall in love with SY in the first place.

(This chimes with my response at the time‚ when I remember saying to a friend of mine, "Sonic Youth went soft"

that's fair, but also makes me think you should check out RR! much more concise songs.

That's next! Right now I'm listening to the newish Monolake, tho :-)

The thing with Rather Ripped is it's a Sonic Youth album for people who don't like Sonic Youth. Like, who the hell wants to hear them do boring indie rock songs that literally any other group of four middle-aged white people could extrude in their sleep? Ooh, "concise songs" — yep, that's exactly what hooked me about Sonic Youth the first time I heard Sister and Daydream Nation and Sonic Death...

Erm, okay, I got tired of the Monolake, listening to RR...this is not a promising start.

Yeah, I think after Murray Street, I'm just like, "this is boring." Even the rockingest noisiest parts of both Sonic Nurse and RR are predictable and lack the sort of dynamic tension that lights up Murray Street, or maybe it's just that Murray Street is the ur-album of this period of SY and everything that came after simply isn't very good.

At this point, Sister, EVOL, BMR, Goo, and DR are the only albums by them that I can't live without, and I could curate an album of selections from all their other records.

my take on elder sonic youth records is that sometimes ppl soften with age and thats ok and also their music got prettier which is good

Yeah, that's the difference — their classic records were beautiful, their late-period records are pretty.

that’s fine, but i also don’t go to SY for pretty, so i don’t care!

they also lost me after murray street, which is probably my 2nd or 3rd fav album of theirs, for the most part.

i skip around sonic nurse and rr, but the highlights are worth price of admission. im especially partial to "unmade bed" and "i love you golden blue" which i think are some of their best songs.

murray street is a 10 ofc

Never quite got the DN as chill idea... Granted it's less ferocious than BMR, which I absolutely love, but it does what it sets out to do extremely well. Cross the Breeze is one of Kim's best - I love how it switches between galloping hardcore and almost-metal breakdowns. And the noise sections are some of their most beautiful. When I saw them do the DN shows, Thurston introduced Silver Rocket as their homage to Jesus & Mary Chain. Maybe that was just playing to the Glasgow crowd, but it does make sense. Some beautiful noise on that, the kinda thing they'd explore at greater length on Diamond Sea, which for me is the peak in terms of combining their mellower side with immersive noise.

That totally makes sense about Silver Rocket and JAMC.

At this point, Sister, EVOL, BMR, Goo, and DR are the only albums by them that I can't live without, and I could curate an album of selections from all their other records.

― czech hunter biden's laptop (the table is the table), Wednesday, July 2, 2025 6:56 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Glad to hear you've come around on DiRty.

oops, obv DN lol

Tbh I can't really enjoy RR because when I listen to it (with hindsight) Thurston's lyrics seem to be about his affair with Eva (e.g. "Sleepin Around" but in my mind all of them take on that aspect).

Teaser for the Tamra Davis documentary type thing "The Best Summer" (inc SY amongst others)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZHk6rU7cWc