Lana Del Rey - Norman Fucking Rockwell (2019)

Any takers

I'm not anybody's mom or anything, but one generic LDR thread seemed to be handling the discussion of this not yet released album just fine, and will do fine after it comes out as well.

Don't people find those mega-threads unwieldy? The "pitchfork is dumb" thread crashes my browser if I try to expand it. Granted, LDR only has 3000 posts or so, but still, I'm not sure I totally get the anti-proliferation mentality.

I was so bowled over by "Venice Bitch" I didn't properly appreciate the new, down-to-earth Lana on "Mariners Apartment Complex"

They mistook my kindness for weakness
I fucked up, I know that, but Jesus
Can't a girl just do the best she can?

i also like threads for new albums because it alerts me to something new from an artist i don't care enough about to check their one thread whenever it's updated.

The other thread had a lot of hate tbh

this album is terrible

Who hurt u

If the consensus is to shut it down, Ok

i like the deluxe version with all the tracks in reverse order that costs twice as much and came out a year later

i also like the deluxe version of this thread that has all the posts in reverse order and came out in 2025

album of the year

I'm not anybody's mom or anything, but one generic LDR thread seemed to be handling the discussion of this not yet released album just fine, and will do fine after it comes out as well.

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, September 19, 2018 8:55 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes. I don't see why we need a new thread suddenly just because she has a new album. The beauty of the Lana thread was that it occurred and flowed just like her career, following her twists and turns. I don't get the need for a new thread at all.

it's a bit nice that the other thread had all the hate, most of which has dwindled because why the fuck would anyone hate lana

Don't people find those mega-threads unwieldy? The "pitchfork is dumb" thread crashes my browser if I try to expand it. Granted, LDR only has 3000 posts or so, but still, I'm not sure I totally get the anti-proliferation mentality.

― enochroot, Wednesday, September 19, 2018 9:05 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Either use bookmarks or get a better browser. It's not complicated. If ilx-threads (of all things online) crash your browser, it's you, not ilx.

The other thread had a lot of hate tbh

― Ross, Wednesday, September 19, 2018 9:40 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is such a lame take.

Alright, keep it to the other thread. I’m just a nerd

Dude lbi you now.....

Lock thread mod please

et tu, Bateau?

There was love, there was hate, and now there was love again. a) who cares and reads back to the hate, when b) there is love now?

idgi

Lbi being harsh itt for real

Assuming we all have the same internet plan.

Lbi I don’t even have the internet

Chill on assumptions. I’m out of this thread

No need to talk to Enochroot like that

Ross, <3 u man but this doesn't seem worthy to brawl about. Use a bookmark and the thread won't load all 1000s of messages.

Okay cool no sweat

In my defence I created a thread for the new Florence album after ceremonials thread seemed irrelevant. Didn’t know that there are some Ilx rules I didn’t understand about general threads for artists.

et tu, Bateau?

― imago, Wednesday, September 19, 2018 10:05 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://i.giphy.com/media/9RNapaMXnaZhK/200.gif

Imagine there's only one Radiohead thread
I wonder if you cann

If there was only Radiohead thread, then I assume it would be this one:
Radiohead LP9 Anticipation, Fangirling and random Cheesecake Thread (Do not read if you hate Radiohead or us)

well, i actually didn't know about bookmarks until just now, so i guess thanks bateau for being a jerk?

(but seriously, expand all the posts on the "pitchfork is dumb" thread, scroll to the bottom, and tell me your browser doesn't crash)

I'm not anybody's mom or anything, but one generic LDR thread seemed to be handling the discussion of this not yet released album just fine, and will do fine after it comes out as well.

It's a good idea for the album to have a thread after it's been released or there are more tracks to discuss, this thread launch is maybe a bit premature, that's all.

I'm p sure I wasn't a jerk, Enochroot. It was just a tip. Beyond that, I feel the original Lana thread served all our Lana purposes, and I didn't and don't see the need for anew thread. Also because the original Lana thread tracks her evolution - and ours, reaction to it - so succinctly.

album title alone deserves its own thread

gay album title imo

picturing mr roper bangin the dude who sang somebody's watching me

Dammit. I was just about to make that same joke.

gay album title imo

― rip van wanko, Wednesday, September 19, 2018

It's not called Get Thee Behind Me, Sailor

Except with the guy from Psycho instead of Three's Company.

lmao that she has another (very nice) new one called "How to Disappear" -- she really wants to keep baiting Radiohead huh

where'd that slip out to? youtube?

played live at some apple thing

https://youtu.be/m3tkGiOx85k

it's a tiresome and rockist observation, but still! seeing artists you like performing and corporate events is just depressing. it being apple she probably got $150k for an afternoon's work and I don't begrudge here

oops sorry, "at"/"her"

why? take the money and run

the majority of venues she performs at are owned by corporations, what is the difference?

audience

i feel like this and the 1975 record are never coming out

take the money and run

^^Her next slowcore cover.

this has been happening for ages, no? just more commonly recorded/broadcast online now

having to change "bitch" to "chick" in a room of adults, in 2018, is also a bit depressing

Been repeat-listening to "Mariners Apartment Complex" this week when walking through all the yellow/gold leaves.

does anyone not like "venice bitch" cuz i don't

"mariners apartment complex" is v nice tho

god bless lana del rey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY2LUmLw_DQ

another winner

For real.

apparently none of the released tracks is the "first single"

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/lana-del-reys-recent-fan-tracks-reflect-some-of-her-strongest-songwriting-yet/

What's a single nowadays anyway ?
So by the time she releases the first single, we'll have at least 4 tracks from the album already ? Unless some (or all) of the 3 released tracks are off the album, as suggested in the article...

wasn't this supposed to drop today? where is it????

that was never officially confirmed and i'm not sure where that date came from to begin with

💔💔💔@LanaDelRey just tweeted out in a series of screenshoted notes that in an unexpected accident in the studio she lost the song files from her new album that was ready for release in the next few months. She says she doesn’t know if she can even promise a new record by 2021 pic.twitter.com/zfcVK4BuPk

— PopCrave (@PopDrave) March 30, 2019

So she's saying all the work was saved on a single Apple computer that could not be salvaged after one drop on the studio floor? Ok.

Sorry, my fault for not reading the replies. This is fake.

Two days early.

i hate stan twitter

PopDrave

So is this album ever going to happen?

She's gotta finish her Cherry Poppin' Daddies cover first.

lol damn

Doin Time is great it works so well as an idea.

seems increasingly albums are announced a few days before release or five tracks are doled out over a sic month period

i missed this sublime thing. jesus lana.

Ha I loved the sublime cover and would probably love a cherry poppin daddies cover if she actually made one.

I barely knew or cared about the sublime original; so that probably affects my feelings towards it.

Yeah I’d never heard of them, turns out they had one song in the charts, at number 71 for one week, in the UK.

ok cherry poppin daddies are fucking terrible we're not going to do revisionism on that bullshit. at least have enough self respect to say squirrel nut zippers

even if you are a "we stan a legend" Twitter weirdos there is a limit

She could do a 90s EP of "What It's Like" and a slow ethereal "All Star" and...

Can totally see her doing a sultry cover of Flagpole Sitta.

Fingertips have memories
Mine can't forget the curves of your body
And when I feel a bit naughty
I run it up the flagpole and see who salutes (But no one ever does)

Lana Del Rey announced ‘Norman Fucking Rockwell’ comes out in 2 months pic.twitter.com/XZyWZjSHLI

— Lana Del Rey Mafia (@delreyxmafia) June 22, 2019

album 'out in two months'!

glad to have some news at last

I was beginning to get concerned that the record company was squashing it or something.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EA0O9gtVUAA2jh-?format=jpg

Out August 30th

oh man, that cover is dumb. first dumb album art from her too

I love that they probably spent a ton of time making it look like it was done in 10 minutes in Photoshop.

fucked her way to the shop

her best album cover by a long shot imo

is Cinnamon Girl a cover?

also doing a Charlie's Angels thing w Ariana Grande and Miley Cyrus, which.....sure

Needs a bit more Lichtenstein.

I'm so glad that Mariners Apartment Complex and Venice Bitch made the album.

the twist in the tile is that Norman and Rockwell are two different people

Doin Time was a surprise.. a cover as the 4th song on an album seems kinda haphazard but whatevs.

That's Jack Nicholson's *grandson* btw..

the twist in the tile is that Norman and Rockwell are two different people

― flappy bird, Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:19 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ramming speed, starring lee as speed

the hand on the cover has the vibe of 3D posters and comics

http://premiumblend.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Amazin_3D_Comics.jpg

is Cinnamon Girl a cover?

nah, she's posted some snippets of it to her instagram already

a cover as the 4th song on an album seems kinda haphazard but whatevs.

her albums are mostly v haphazardly sequenced, it bugs me every time!

lol the cover art is pretty bad

interesting that "best american record" is on there, hasn't a demo of that been floating around forever?

extremely excited to hear the lana del rey song entitled "california"

oh good, tour dates popping up and she's playing Berkeley. the last time I saw her down at the shoreline it was a fucking disaster as it always is (traffic, overcrowding).

extremely excited to hear the lana del rey song entitled "california"

i was recently mentioning to someone how i thought "venice bitch" is the most ldr song title ever without crossing into self-parody territory. "california" on the other hand...

As much as I love her, she seems like kind of a terrible live act, not a lot of gravity, and tons of canned vocals.

she was better than I expected when I saw her.

Very tempted to go, assuming she makes it out here.

Jack Antonoff has tweeted to say 'The Greatest' is his favorite of the new songs, adding 'just wait'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=Q7FmcCqSTMc

I guess the Sublime song is on the album after all.

I like the album cover, it’s weird and fun

oh good, tour dates popping up and she's playing Berkeley. the last time I saw her down at the shoreline it was a fucking disaster as it always is (traffic, overcrowding).

― akm, Thursday, August 1, 2019 9:41 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

thinking about going to this show!

New song written and recorded over the past day:

https://www.stereogum.com/2053762/lana-del-rey-new-song-looking-for-america-mass-shootings/video/

song was released yesterday, along with her cover of season of the witch from a soundtrack; both are really good! also: her tickets for her show in Berkeley mysteriously sold out on ticketmaster within 5 seconds but were plentiful on stubhub with a 10% markup. Why isn't anyone investigating Ticketmaster after that Metallica leak?

https://youtu.be/LrSX_OcpeJg

"Fuck It I Love You" is good but "The Greatest" is next-level

Interesting! I got bored of "The Greatest" before it was half through yet like "Fuck It I Love You."

the latter has some of those sweet guitars I'm hoping there's a lot more of on the album (someone should give her a no-pianos rule for the next one)

Can't believe how much The Greatest has that Rutles-y Cheese And Onions flavour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaHG6g7uFw

wow, wtf. had to stop listening to that lest i get too used to the association.

ahahaha

lol omg

I like these two (and the video) but aren’t there a lot of singles from the new album already (7?) ? Is it gonna be a double or something ? Otherwise there might not be a lot left to discover...

there's been 6 so far ("looking for america" isn't on the album) but the album is 14 tracks and out in a week, so still 8 new tracks

Oh ok, thanks !
Almost half out already then... but I like all of them so looking forward to hearing the rest !

The piano outro to « The Greatest » is so warm and lovely.

Sia vs Cat Power vs LDR, each The Greatest is pretty great imo

eh fuck it i love you doesn't really come together for me, the greatest is nice. not a patch on the venice bitch/mariners double drop

i like both but i'm not blown away by either like i was with "mariners apartment complex"/"venice bitch"

^ agree

Yup. I guess most people would agree too.
But I really like these two latest, "FIILU" maybe a bit more than "The Greatest".

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/the-greatest/

This Billboard story is interesting.

Speaking of haphazard track listings and cover art, this bit is great:

The album title was just something she came up with when she randomly harmonized the name of the American illustrator while recording “Venice Bitch,” though she recognizes that she and Rockwell -- an idealist whose cozy depictions of Boy Scouts and Thanksgiving turkeys graced magazine covers for half the 20th century -- have both explored big questions about the American dream in their work. And then there’s the artwork she has been using for the record’s singles: bizarrely casual iPhone photos that feel a bit tossed-off because, well, they are.

“Every time my managers write me, ‘Album art?,’ I’m just like, send!” she cackles, pantomiming taking a selfie. “And they just send the middle-finger emoji back to me.”

The title track is great, one of her best songs.

You're not kidding!

She so gradually became an excellent vocalist that I barely noticed how much she's upped her game in this respect, we're a million miles from the Betty Boop routine on "Off to the Races"

Also the mastering job seems unusually dynamic throughout, which I really appreciate

has this leaked?

it has!

ugh, I wanna hear it, I have super high expectations for this album after the string of excellent singles.

the leak I had was 1/2 shitty sounding.

the already released songs are certainly louder.

New leeak is clean.

On first pass I'd only ditch "California". "How to Disappear" is a lovely little standout. I like that her stuff has essentially an inverse relationship with percussion compared to...whoever her peers are supposed to be at this point

the leak I had was 1/2 shitty sounding.

― akm, Tuesday, August 27, 2019

yes

she def has a better handle on controlling her leaks these days. I spent some time researching how all that other unreleased stuff flowed out and it was pretty messy. I mean, what amounted to like 4 albums worth of demos and outtakes and alternate mixes from the time immediately before and during Born to Die.

I wonder if she's still planning to do an odds n' sods collection.

OK, I would ditch "Bartender" and "California" but the rest is solid or better. I think this is her best album - wittier, woolier, simultaneously less serious and easier to take seriously.

I think this is her best album

will believe it's better than ultraviolence when i hear it but hoping you're right

It's not as tight obviously but I think it's a lil more distinctive

I hadn't realized Antonoff worked on almost every song. Dude's a machine.

Lastly I have now heard "Looking for America" and it's gorgeous enough that I don't begrudge its overall dopeyness. It deserves to be on the album (though I am aware it was recorded too late for physical consideration)

the shitty leak from a week or two ago was sourced from a cassette that shipped really early and is missing "how to disappear" but thanks for the heads up that it leaked in good quality

on first listen it's probably beaten out ultraviolence as her best, my only real complaint is it's a little long. i might cut "doin' time" because it's a little out of place and "bartender" which is one of the weaker tracks but by no means bad. it's all very solid

I actually like having Doin' Time in there, it feels strangely personal

hum better than Ultraviolence ? Glad to hear that and even more excited !
"Doin' Time" does sound a little out of place among the already released material but it's a nice light summer song so I guess it will be a kind of bubble in the album.
The album will be released this week, right ?

yeah it's out on the 30th

"venice bitch" is still the clear standout but i especially like "cinnamon girl" and "how to disappear" too

for some reason I never really clocked "Hope is a dangerous thing..." much when it first came out but it's fucking me up now

I had fifteen-year dances
Church basement romances, yeah, I've cried
Spilling my guts with the Bowery Bums
Is the only love I've ever known
Except for the stage, which I also call home, when I'm not
Servin' up God in a burnt coffee pot for the triad
Hello, it's the most famous woman you know on the iPad
Calling from beyond the grave, I just wanna say, "Hi, Dad"

on first pass this album is very good

"hope is a dangerous thing..." works much better as album closer than single

Well, what a difference this new rip makes.

totally agree re: hope. it didn't do much for me before but it got me a little choked up when i heard it at the end of the album

Well it was certainly a weird track to release as a single, even without listening to the rest of the album.
That said, "Venice Bitch" was also a weird choice if you consider its length, especially in today's 3min tracks culture !

Does the album keep the full jam at the end or is it shorter?

it's the same length

'hope is a dangerous thing' is one of my favorite songs of hers, the lyrics are incredible.

the pre-chorus on fuck it i love you is so lush and beautiful, i just wish the actual hook was stronger

Au contraire: "Bartender" boasts some of the album's sharpest lyrics.

Yeah the pre-chorus on "FIILU" is the best part of the song (but the part right before, in a kinda of staccato, is also great to enhance the rhythmic contrast of the song).

Goddamn it Alfred, when you're right, you're right.

the stutter in that song is such a great choice

Yes! Unexpected.

The first verse of "Bartender" is like a particularly vicious parody of Joni Mitchell. And just in general this album is a master class in how to record vocals.

Yeah on the whole this is her best album.

I think the mix on Venice bitch is slightly different but only barely

I haven't found quite the words to articulate this yet, but the lyrics on this one just feel much more consistent and contiguous than ever before, less shticky/persona-driven than anything she's done before. Not just the contemporary references (although the Kanye kiss-off is very satisfying), but the constant circling back to a couple of main themes, esp the simultaneous allure and terror of retrograde romantic ideals, as well as the scattered references to alcoholism and recovery. It's truly affecting, not simply affected!

(although the Kanye kiss-off is very satisfying)

Was that line - "black narcissist" - about him? I thought it was about Azealia Banks...

she's said the "black narcissist" line (thankfully) explicitly does not refer to race, I think that's just a metaphor for her own bad impulses. "The Greatest" features the line "Kanye West is blonde and gone."

I’ve never paid much attention to LDR after ILX clowned Video Games so severely out of the gates, but Venice Bitch is such a good song. That vulnerability and longing in her voice on the chorus is something else. Where do I go next?

Work your way back.

Yeah, honestly just start with this one (out Friday if you're not into l33ks)

Album ranking:

Norman Fucking Rockwell
Ultraviolence
Honeymoon
Lust For Life
Born To Die: The Paradise Edition

The timing is perfect to release such a great album. This might just cement her as a top 3 artist of the 2010’s in the inevitable decade revision. She was consistent throughout the decade, her lows weren’t abysmal and she’s closing the year with what feels like a mature statement record.

I honestly didn’t think she had such an album in her after “lust for life” which felt to me like her blandest record.

(xpost) I'd agree with that ranking. Make sure you do listen to the Paradise Edition though because it has Ride on it which is one of her all time best songs.

"her lows weren’t abysmal"

well her SNL performance was but maybe people don't remember that so much now.

it's interesting (to me anyway) to compare/contrast this album and her career with Marina Diamandas'; they both started out around the same time with slightly similar types of debuts, but where Marina's output has gotten (IMO) worse with each release, culminating in an incredibly dull and boring 'adult' sounding album this year, LDR also has released what might be called an 'adult' album but it's , well, not boring. Not sure where I'm going with that but it crossed my mind just now.

I honestly didn’t think she had such an album in her after “lust for life” which felt to me like her blandest record.

The curse of Sean Lennon.

I might be the only person who kind of loves that song lol

I'm sure Yoko likes it.

I like LFL better than most; perhaps the surfeit of guests softened it.

Xxxpost: oh yeah that SNL performance is a potential career killer but SNL usually has some terrible performances, I wonder why it is? Tight rehearsal times? Lack of monitor speakers, terrible engineers?

Maybe they provide some bad quality drugs backstage.

shitty sound in their setup is (or used to be) a common complaint

not that i really give a shit about her politics but theres still something validating abt her worldview seeming as facile to me as her music

I prefer Lust For Life over Honeymoon

I can't argue w/ unperson's ranking. Born to Die really has not aged well for me, for the most part.

I prefer Lust For Life over Honeymoon

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles),

same

I bet Stevie NIcks kicks herself every morning for never coming up with "Beautiful People Beautiful Problems."

Bartender has a very beautiful melody, as does NFR. I do think having so many excellent songs released far in advance throws the listening experience off, somewhat.

"My baby used to dance underneath my architecture"-- what an opening line...

This is wonderful all the way through, but not better than Ultraviolence or Honeymoon for me yet. Her cover of Doin' Time is such an outrageous flex...

born to die still pwns yall are nuts

It's a great album though I'd snip some songs off it and it certainly sounds of a time.

NFR and Ultraviolence are pretty easily her two best, the other three are all quite inconsistent but have their moments. i'd probably put Lust for Life as her worst since it's way too long and has some real clunkers on it

For the unitiated she has the best, most popular pile of unreleased songs of any artist i've ever heard of, some gold in here, especially Pawn Shop Blues and Serial Killer which she plays a lot live

https://nylon.com/articles/best-unreleased-lana-del-rey-songs

Driving in cars with boys is still one of her greatest songs.

not that i really give a shit about her politics but theres still something validating abt her worldview seeming as facile to me as her music

I don't know of any American pop stars with non-facile politics, but this is a good quote imo

In reply to a photo of West in a MAGA hat, Del Rey said that Trump's election was "a loss for the country," but that West's support of Trump was "a loss for the culture."

Prior to that, she had performed at West's wedding to Kim Kardashian.

"Lana Del Rey on Trump, Kanye and the Right Time for a Protest Song"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/arts/music/lana-del-rey-norman-rockwell-album.html

The first verse of "Bartender" is like a particularly vicious parody of Joni Mitchell.

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, August 28, 2019 12:56 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Lol is it now?

I don't hear it as parody. She's revisiting some of her motifs to show how some things never change.

yeah I mean she uses all sorts of Cali iconography all the time, if anything it seems like a shot at the Coachella crowd still dressing like Laurel Canyon

The video version of "Doin' Time" adds what every Sublime cover needs: a 45-second string interlude

https://youtu.be/qolmz4FlnZ0

The beats in Doin' Time are bad. It didn't really bother me when I listened to it in isolation but it sticks out like a sore thumb in the context of the album.

I don’t know how anything sticks out on any of her albums it’s all one long gauzy monorhythmic ig vacation phitkb

*photo

no, it's a phikb

I like her cover of doin' time now. I particularly like the 'she's evil' background vox bit. I think the song adds some needed levity (if you can call it that) to the album though yeah I'd probably rather Season of the Witch be on there.

but one thing I think that interview, and 'looking for america' makes clear, is that she an antanoff can bang some quality shit out very fast. I'd like to see her not constrained by 'album' releases going forward. I'd be happy if she dropped a song a month again.

I went from finding it odd to fine to basically indispensable on the tracklist

(xps)

D-40 if all you get from "Hope is a dangerous thing..." is "ig vacation photos" I recommend ears

Ppl can make ~profound~ ig vacation photos

I’m not saying her music isn’t about shit just that it’s all very monochromatic musically, feels basically static ... that song may be deep but it’s still breathy vocals, slow tempo, & vaguely sounding like a melody derived from “wicked game”

Idk, I’m not saying it’s objectively bad obv, just the lack of musical dynamism is something that really doesn’t appeal to me ... you know what you’re going to get from a Lana del Rey song and I guess that’s part of the appeal for some but I like to listen to artists who might surprise you once in awhile

I think Venice Bitch counts for that, but tbh gradual refinement can be just as satisfying as curveballs

From Tom’s review

Del Rey has been slowly letting its songs out into the world for almost a year now, and together, they sustain a mood even more than her previous records have done.

Phew another mood sustained

Tom sez album of the year

Is the string interlude a cover of the theme of the movie “attack of the 50 foot woman”? It’d be awesome.

'the greatest' is a jam

she's straight up summoning beth gibbons in the bridge of cinnamon girl

thanks to spotify I now notice the thread title is missing an exclamation mark

I have some news about the MIA and Quentin Manson murder movie threads, but you might want to sit down

?

On a side note: For a minute there I thought the Folgers actress in “once upon a time in hollywood” was Lana.

sic is just saying there are other threads w titles that need updating for accuracy. I just find the punctuation amusing tbh

now that this is out I can feel a little less weird presenting my preferred sequence, which is much less radical than the changes I'd make to the last two

Norman Fucking Rockwell
Cinnamon Girl
Doin' Time
Love Song
How to Disappear
Fuck It, I Love You
Happiness is a Butterfly
Mariners Apartment Complex
Bartender
Venice Bitch
Looking for America
The Greatest
Hope is a dangerous thing...

https://www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/pop/8528500/lana-del-rey-best-songs-ranked

Pretty decent ranking, I agree that Hope Is A Dangerous Thing is her best ever tune

in the case of the MIA thread it's that 972 of the posts are about a different artist but yeah

Makes a lot of sense that “dangerous woman” is (rightly) her fav Arianna grande song

I've only started to listen to the album so too early to say anything except that one little problem with already knowing so many songs off the album is that I have to skip the HUGE part between "NFR" and "Love Song" to get to the new stuff !

she's said she's already written a bunch of songs for her next album which she's calling White Hot Forever and hopes to have out sometime next year. she really doesn't stop at all

which is amusing to me cause in that linked interview you don't get the sense that she's a workaholic at all

otoh this is......concerning

Del Rey also says she’s writing the music for a retelling of the Lewis Carroll novel Alice’s Adventures In Wonderland: “It’s more about the story of the author and the real-life Alice back in Cambridge. I have to learn a lot more about it, but the songs are really sweet.”

Because she got Cambridge and Oxford mixed up?

California is a great song, such a great tune and arrangement; and her phrasing really really sounds like Cat Power

I can’t think of too many artists with this short a career with the massive backlog of unreleased recordings; I do t know that she’s a workaholic but she’s amazingly productive and I suspect that songs is just very easy for her. Nice problem to have.

I can’t think of too many artists with this short a career with the massive backlog of unreleased recordings

thug, future, many many other rappers

i don't think that sort of huge amount of unreleased recordings is really that unusual for an artist working in the pop world like her - the difference to most is that she's just had a lot of them leak which is how we find out about them in the first place.

i kind of took a break from her for a while so i hadnt had much exposure to any leaks or even the released singles, so it sound pretty fresh to me. loving it tbh

i just noticed the very quiet one sided phone conversation that closes out the album. weird touch.

Pretty mesmerizing listen throughout

Yeah this is something else. Love the seemingly semi improvised touches throughout and how the vocals are recorded.

In the hands of another producer there are many parts of this that would have been autotuned (for effect) and I"m grateful that didn't happen.

so the way she sings 'most definitely' in Doin'Time is the cutest thing ever.

can't decide if this make me miss Los Angeles or never want to go back

Speaking of b-sides/extra tracks, this meme directed me to an excellent Ultraviolence bonus track I was unfamiliar with

pic.twitter.com/JoCnEexO7d

— Adam Moussa (@adamjmoussa) August 30, 2019

i can't take 'happiness is a butterfly' out of my head.
loving this album.

A Lana Del Rey stan just DM’d me to ask that I give the new album an 8.8 on Pitchfork, so it bears mentioning that I am not reviewing the new Lana Del Rey album for Pitchfork

— Larry Fitzmaurice (@lfitzmaurice) August 31, 2019

Fair rating imo

stans only want justice

Lana fans will be ready to riot when it only manages 8.3

Definite 8.6

Watch them pull a massive 180 and give it a 7.7

I mean iirc that would put it pretty much in line with her previous records

It’s very obviously going to get the best score of her career. I’d gamble 8.8-9.0

we should actually have a pitchfork scores betting thread (actual pfork writers banned)

Stunning album. So many great production details and some of her best lyrics. As others have said, her vocals have come a long way. I love some of the things she does with her voice here. How she belts out the chorus to The Greatest, the way she sings "Malibu" in Next American Record, and especially that stutter in Bartender. I can't get that out of my head.

Agree with everyone saying this is her best album. I've enjoyed all of them, but this is the first one where I wouldn't change a thing. Lust For Life and Honeymoon needed trimming, Born To Die should have swapped out Million Dollar Man for Without You and I could never get behind Cruel World as an opener on Ultraviolence.

That Billboard ranking of her songs piscesx posted upthread is an interesting read. Can't really argue with any of the songs in the top 10, but there's some low placements for some of my favourites. The Blackest Day (80), Swan Song (56), Radio (46), Dark Paradise (45), Tomorrow Never Came (43) and Sad Girl (33) would all be much higher on my own list.

loved Video Games, didn't care for some subsequent singles, liked several subsequent singles, didn't hear various subsequent singles, flipped for Mariners and Venice a year ago, have never listened to a whole Lana album.

this album a) fucking rules and b) feels exactly like a good album by the eight-years-older writer of Video Games

if the production on the vocals here is as different as ppl are noting, that's really heartwarming to read - this captures her weaknesses and idiosyncrasies in a really sensitive and supportive way.

we should actually have a pitchfork scores betting thread (actual pfork writers banned)

― Simon H., Saturday, August 31, 2019 7:15 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Please let’s not do this, thank you

Anyway, the cover art is fantastic

art's fine, "NFR!" sucks

Although I'm really loving most of this, I find that the album sags a bit in the middle, between "Love Song" and "California", where songs get kind generic. Maybe I just need to spend more time with those songs. One thing that bugs me with her vocals is a certain tendency, esp on choruses, to shoehorn lyrics which don't really fit the melody (eg "If you come back to California, you should just hit me uuuuuup" or the stuttering on "Bartender").

yeah, I ended up snipping "California" and "Next Best..." in my edit not because they're bad songs but because they don't really add anything to the record texturally or conceptually

oh Next Best is one of my favorites

I like it, but it feels like it could have slotted in too easily on one of the previous records (which makes sense as it's been kicking around a while), and imo it drags a bit

also it's been bugging me, but I finally figured out who "Looking for America" most reminds me of: Marissa Nadler, esp the harmonies near the end

After spending some time with it over the weekend, I'm still not familiar enough will all the songs but overall it is great (and arguably better than UV indeed).
I could maybe do without "Love Song" and "Happiness is a Butterfly" (not that they are bad but they didn't hit me as much as the other ones).
"Doin'Time" sounds a bit out of place but I like it and it brings some variations.
At this point, the album is basically two parts for me : from the beginning to "Love Song" (the I-know-these-songs-already part, which is also a bit more varied musically) and the rest which is more piano-ballads driven.
Although the 1st part is great, I might actually prefer the second one (the run from "Cinnamon Girl" to "Bartender" is fantastic).
Also fwiw, it's only 5min shorter than Lust For Life.

really don't get the appeal of this. it's pleasant enough but the songs leave my head as soon as i hear them

loved Video Games, didn't care for some subsequent singles, liked several subsequent singles, didn't hear various subsequent singles, flipped for Mariners and Venice a year ago, have never listened to a whole Lana album.

this album a) fucking rules and b) feels exactly like a good album by the eight-years-older writer of Video Games

This is EXACTLY how I feel about this. It is far too long like every LDR album I have ever listened to but at the same time I'm not sure what parts of it I would cut. And her voice sounds so expressive and her roles so well-performed.

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/lana-del-rey-norman-fucking-rockwell/

!!!!!!!!

ok even I think that's a little overboard

yeah it's very good but it's not a masterpiece or the best album released in the last 5 years lol

Best reviewed solo female album of the decade I think? Each LDR album has had a better review than the one before. They knew they were wrong wrong wrong right from the start about her (5.5 for Born To Die) so this is a bit of a mea culpa.

Higher than “to pimp a butterfly”

xp idk i revisited born to die recently and it really does not hold up for the most part, the only album of hers that was really critically underrated was ultraviolence

i seem to recall there was a review of bjork's homogenic which had the score 9.9 - that's not on the site anymore and instead there's a review from 2 years ago which gives it a 10. anyway, the homogenic review aside, i think that's not only the best reviewed solo female album of the decade but is a tie with joanna newsom's ys for the highest score ever given to a solo female artist for a new album (i.e. not a "retrospective" sunday review, a reissue, or a compilation / live album like beyoncé's homecoming - which it beats by 0.1 anyway).

loved Video Games, didn't care for some subsequent singles, liked several subsequent singles, didn't hear various subsequent singles, flipped for Mariners and Venice a year ago, have never listened to a whole Lana album.

this album a) fucking rules and b) feels exactly like a good album by the eight-years-older writer of Video Games

yep totally agree

I've started skipping "California" and "Bartender" (t-t-t aside it drags) but I'm confident in giving NFW! a score of 8.9. Opening track reminds me of the last Sundfor album.

Nowman Fucking Wockwell?

Some little things I love : the chorus in "TNBAR", especially the synth arpeggio, the apocalyptic vibe of the strings during the chorus of "California".

Regarding the P4K rating, it doesn't shock me on a site that gave Kanye West's MBDTF a 10 (since NFR! is obviously way better imo) !

hyperbolic review but if it convinces some people to give this a listen who would have otherwise given it a pass, then sure.

After reading the review I thought the writer could almost have written it without listening to the album since she mostly talks about the singles !

sic otm

"Born To Die" was a disappointment for those of us who were hoping for this album

Also at what point do people stop clowning on Antonoff and recognize that he's done some really amazing work these past six years

and to go from co-writing the Taylor Swift album to this!

idk what Antonoff has really done that's worthy of clowning on except for having been a member of Fun and his solo stuff being pretty boring. i guess "look what you made me do" was a real wtf moment but that's about it? earlier on as a co-writer/producer some of the songs he worked on had a tendency to sound too much like his solo material but he's certainly grown far beyond that

He's fine, he's just a little ubiquitous.

Yeah, he must have a crazy overbooked schedule !
I don't know much about him but his work on this and Lorde's latest album is pretty great.

really don't get the appeal of this. it's pleasant enough but the songs leave my head as soon as i hear them

Same. And album needs more drums. Seems like a theme across various genres lately: like producers are challenging themselves to make a complete track with no or minimal drums.

this is nice but seems like cat power lite

isn't cat power already lite??

it's pretty, but wispy, and there isn't anything new on here that comes close to approaching the singles. bartender is great, and i dig the chorus on fuck it i love you.

Well the singles were already half the album !

feel like there should be a but after my comment, and there is--but there's a gauzy middle section that is pleasantly dreamy but not very memorable

Well the singles were already half the album !

― AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, September 3, 2019 11:30 AM (fifty-six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah, by the singles i mean "the songs we've been living with for a year or so" like venice bitch or mariners, not songs like the greatest or fuck it i love you which came out this summer.

antanoff's production work is pretty good. I found Fun and Bleachers incredibly dull and uninteresting though. go figure.

might just have to be in the right mood/moment for this one, haven't found it yet. tried to listen to it Friday afternoon while getting a medication infusion for my colitis (the sexiest venue for noir-pop!) and it just left me sleepy and bored. Mariners was one of my favorite songs of '18 though and I was a Video Games stan from the jump, so I haven't given up hope yet. I did like the Sublime cover, it was my first time hearing it.

courtney love predictably being a werido all over LDR's instagram this weekend re: interscope's promotional tactics (or something)

I’m pretty unfamiliar with LDR’s catalog, but I am pretty into this after the first 4 songs

Lindsay Zoladz's review is my favorite: https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/9/3/20847224/lana-del-rey-norman-rockwell-album-review

Norman Fucking Rockwell just might be one of the best album titles there ever was.

Might be! But I don't think so.

I dunno, every (hyperbolic or not) review I read of this simultaneously makes me want to listen to it and not listen to it. I'll probably get there eventually - I've heard the what I've learned is a Sublime cover, and it's fine - but as someone who doesn't know any of her other stuff (I'm sure I've heard Video Games, but I don't know how it goes off the top of my head) I'm wondering if I can get on board this late in the game. Or if this does something significantly different from/better than the others?

You can definitely get on board any time you like. I've still not heard it (and I'm the dude who started the first LdR/Video Games thread on here...), not found the right time yet. The reviews are great pieces of writing though, I have to say, both the P4K one and Zoladz in The Ringer. But I see no reason why this could not be your first LDR experience? It's never too late.

Ha, just had my Amazon robot put it on and they bleeped the title.

Ooh, Fiona Apple vibes right from the start. Was not expecting that.

I got on board with this album (or, more specifically, with Mariners Apartment Complex/Venice Bitch last year) and I'm a rabid convert now

I hate reading the reviews bc they do that thing where what should be a neutral description becomes another excuse to hyperbolize abt the artists “genius” for making some obvious reference or another rather than looking at how those references are interconnected & marshaled to create some kind of effect

Nb haven’t read Lindsay’s yet

I kind of see what you're getting at, but: reviews should be "neutral descriptions"? Surely you jest.

xp

Ok, that didn't take long. If the rest of the album is as good as the first two songs are I'm on board. I hear virtually none of the references I've seen popping up, though.

and that's ok :)

and here's why

Ok, that didn't take long. If the rest of the album is as good as the first two songs are I'm on board.

Sounds like I'm a few traxx ahead of you... If you can make it through all of track 3 without skipping ahead (never mind bailing on the Sublime cover), I commend you!

And album needs more drums.

...and when the drums do come in, they're so wimpy and almost apologetic-sounding. The instrumentation is v nice overall, but the songs feel almost unfinished with regard to percussion (at least for me).

I never said reviews should be neutral descriptions I said I’ve already read a bunch of meaningless reviews about like paul’s Boutique that argue the tools the artists use are the point and it was tiresome then

I actually really like the subtlety/invisibility of the drums. It allows me to pay attention to other stuff, like the lyrics. Something about her minimally dynamic vocals do the same thing for me.

I didn't realize track 3 was still going until it ended, but I liked it when it was on. I also like the Sublime cover! But I like "Summertime." Though speaking of drums, weird that "Doin Time" features Sublime's drummer and Josh Freese and still sounds like a generic pre-programmed beat.

the end of venice bitch should be 20 minutes long

I'm going to give this the teenager test when my daughter comes home from school.

Didn't really like "Love Song", and because of that "Cinnamon Girl" sounded like more of the same, but if it is, it's more of the same but better.

the end of venice bitch should be 20 minutes long

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:13 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm

The songs are so uniformly slow & sleepy. She's a good singer, and it's a well-made album, but I wouldn't listen to it again (it's just not my thing).

odd thing about this album is that it all bleeds together but also there are definite highlights

I think that's one reason I'm enjoying it. It's just kind of floating along, but stuff still keeps grabbing my attention. I don't know, I think I prefer music that doesn't demand you pay attention to it, and the same often holds true for singers.

the end of venice bitch should be 20 minutes long

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:13 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

odd thing about this album is that it all bleeds together but also there are definite highlights

― na (NA), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:20 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think that's one reason I'm enjoying it. It's just kind of floating along, but stuff still keeps grabbing my attention. I don't know, I think I prefer music that doesn't demand you pay attention to it, and the same often holds true for singers.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:23 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sounds like you guys should listen to a little band called Tool

I actually really like the subtlety/invisibility of the drums. It allows me to pay attention to other stuff, like the lyrics.

This would be a great thing except for the fact that drums are better than other stuff, esp lyrics. That's just science.

this is one of the remarkable strengths of the record - it has a consistent sound and can burble along in the background while reading (presumably loads of dinner parties and after-first-date sofa chats are gonna be soundtracked by it this month)

but you can tune in for a second and catch a hilarious couplet, or subtle weirdness in the arrangement, and appreciate that before going back to background

or pay attention all the way through and follow the developing story of a melody, or the thesis of each song being built out from the crafted gems and jokes in individual lines of lyrics

xpost Usually! I'm very pro drum. But mostly in Tool. Speaking of which (xpost again), Tool day was last week, and the album evinced a similar A+ background reaction.

back in my day you'd have 1 or 2 songs that were sans drums, maybe also fully acoustic, so the band could show their tender side, the rest of the album would have aggressive breakbeats throughout, you'd all smile at each other while clinking Zimas together and ahhhh now that's an album.

I kind of want to hear a Tool album that is only drums.

Speaking of comparisons, I hear a lot of solo John Lennon in this album, is that popping up in reviews?

subtle weirdness in the arrangement

maybe i should listen again, because besides the burbling synths on the singles, i don't really hear weird touches in the arrangement

playing again now and the hidden-ness of the drums is great, but would also listen to a remix where they were booming and upfront

xpost I dunno, I'm up to "Bartender," and can imagine it sung by, say, Joanna Newsom, and she=weird.

I think the relative lack of drums kind of *is* a weird arrangement touch!

right, but that's a very upfront decision, not a subtle touch.

not weird-weird, but for something that can just wash over you, there are LOADS of layers and different players and filigrees mixing in and out. the tail of Venice Bitch changes lead instrument every 6-10 bars, sometimes with (what sounds like) a completely different take from the same player crossing over and playing against the previous one.

she's certainly a Lennon fan anyway (there's a John and Yoko-referencing, Sean-featuring song called "Tomorrow Never Came" on her last album)

xp fair enough--venice bitch and mariners stand head-and-shoulders above the rest imo

bartender is certainly a highlight too. gonna check out the zoladz review soon, maybe that'll help me unlock that morass in the middle of the record.

I liked Bartender a lot. The little stammering vocal tick ... I don't know why she made that choice, but it's a good one.

The final track is strong (its melody seems really familiar, but I can’t place it)

Sounds like you guys should listen to a little band called Tool

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:28 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink]

i like tool and have seem them in concert!

The final track is strong (its melody seems really familiar, but I can’t place it)

― One more cup of yogurt for the road (morrisp), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:59 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

"hope is a dangerous thing..." is one of the peaks

Great line from Zoladz (that she seems to be citing but google suggests is original?): "Sometimes you wanna go where everybody on the jukebox is dead."

also word up to tool for #honouringthefire and bringing killing joke through arenas in the u.s. this year s/o to the big homie alex in nyc wish the tour was coming to minneapolis

xpost Wasn't that just a doofy Cheers reference?

"hope is a dangerous thing..." is one of the peaks

― na (NA), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:02 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah agreed. the alb is really strong in the beginning and end.

Josh - Probably, but it's a great NFR!-like line to describe NFR.

The final track is strong (its melody seems really familiar, but I can’t place it)

― One more cup of yogurt for the road (morrisp), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:59 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not her first song to remind me of this but it reminds me of “wicked game”

I can't quite call it her best because the middle faffs around a bit; the first and last couple tracks are new peaks, though.

I really tried but the middle of this album just ain’t grabbing me. I think I’ll get rid of Lovesong, Cinnamon Girl and How to Disappear from now on.

Love Song is the one that stunted my enthusiasm, but I think the album recovers.

Not her first song to remind me of this but it reminds me of “wicked game”

That's it! Thank u

I think there's also a touch of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwHlKQot0I

this really lost steam for me starting around “california”

she's def in that lineage of samey, Moody cinematic vibes, Isaak, Mazzy Star, Cowboy Junkies, but she has unique spin on it

she's a better songwriter than all of them

I'm not denying the lineage, though (add: Bryan Ferry). I mentioned Chris Isaak last week on a friend's FB thread.

I didn't really notice, is there much (?) any guitar on most of this?

The songs are so uniformly slow & sleepy. She's a good singer, and it's a well-made album, but I wouldn't listen to it again (it's just not my thing).

― One more cup of yogurt for the road (morrisp), Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:20 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is my stance -- it's an improvement that she's not trolling us anymore, but for the past several albums everything is just so dreary, beige and undramatic, for an artist who supposedly embodies drama. people keep comparing her to cat power but it's a very boring version of cat power who never wrote songs like "cross bones style" or "nude as the news" or "speak for me"

The secret is to not have heard anything else she's ever done.

not really sure where you're going with that but I've listened to cat power since high school including songs that aren't tose

*those

I meant LDR. This album sounds good to me, but I've never listened to any LDR.

Can't really speak to Cat Power.

I also don't hear much mazzy star, for what it's worth -- they either have energy (much of she hangs brightly) or a hypnotic minor-key simplicity (most of among my swan; "fade into you" probably qualifies)

I don't mean she sounds like Mazzy Star or really any of them just that they all have a vibe that they pursue and perfect that I could see why the thing that attracts some to them could be viewed as samey by others

I am enjoying this album a lot but it also makes me feel a bit for for Tori Amos' Scarlet's Walk which tried the "overly long soft rock feels-like-a-concept-album about America" gambit first but got nothing like the critical plaudits.

(not that they ultimately sound that much alike although you can imagine LDR doing pretty great versions of "I Can't See New York" or "Gold Dust")

I really tried but the middle of this album just ain’t grabbing me. I think I’ll get rid of Lovesong, Cinnamon Girl and How to Disappear from now on.

these are all among my faves, lol
I attempted a resequence upthread that might address the pacing issue a bit

i've never really listened to her since she bombed on SNL but i'm really enjoying this, a lot—album does often seem to get overlong for the four songs before 'hope is a dangerous thing', though. (i.e. about 45 minutes in)

everyone who hasn't really listened to her before much at all really should listen to Ultraviolence too

is that the one that sounds like kyuss

i've never really listened to her since she bombed on SNL

I'm finding it difficult to imagine an SNL performance being a factor in anyone's enjoyment (or not) of any artist. Like, of all things... Did that really turn you off to her? Why?

Ultraviolence is great, but there are almost-as-good Ultraviolence-length records hiding in the two that came after

xp i dunno, it's not like i even made a habit of watching snl then—i think i saw the video when someone pointed it out. so i just formed a permanent association between her audience- and critic-driven rep and her awful performance, and wrote her off. lots of stuff to listen to! and i find i don't have much of a taste for keeping up with popular/praised artists anymore.

I like Ultraviolence but this one is so much better

i've never really listened to her since she bombed on SNL

Funny, I mentioned the new album to someone this afternoon and she said the exact same thing.

just one more thing SNL has to answer for

Lorne Fucking Michaels

The piano-driven tunes like NFR reminded me of the piano-driven tunes on Court & Spark - I know Joni has been cited as a reference point. Interesting to compare the opening lines of both records: "god damn, man-child, you f'ed me so good I almost said I love you" and "love came to my door with a sleeping roll and a madman's soul." They go very different musical directions - Joni has drums, jazzy rhythms and orchestration, and Cheech & Chong. But they both have idiosyncratic voices & phrasing and both cover similar themes about LA, freedom, lust, and troublesome men with incisive, emotionally resonant lyrics. NFR! seems like an instant classic to me.

For me the Mazzy Star influence is pretty obvious, esp on Mariners and the title track, although LDR seems more interested in engaging with the times (like Joni) than a hazy classicist like Hope Sandoval.

About the middle part, I can understand why people might not like it since it's not as great, bright and varied as the first tracks of the album but to me that's he darkest and most moving part of the album.
From "Cinnamon" to "Bartender" (+ the final track), it's emotional punch after emotional punch.
"Love Song" and "Happiness" could be cut out, though.
Basically, I like to listen to the first part of the album in the morning/day and the second part in the evening/at night !

About the weird arrangements and drums, I love how frustrating AND satisfying it is that the beats only come in in the very last bars of "Cinnamon Girl".

Basically, I like to listen to the first part of the album in the morning/day and the second part in the evening/at night !

I like this division!

OK, I'm hearing the guitar now, there's just not much of it and it's there as window dressing.

I do not hear much hazy dream pop stuff on this album (which would have been pretty easy to achieve with the press of a button or pedal), but it's definitely sunlit dreamy-ish.

BTW, teenager test? She said it's "pretty" and "not like 'Summer Bummer.'"

Spouse test: "it's ... OK. Too much whispering."

"Happiness" is essential if only for the "Don't be a jerk/don't call me a taxi" bit

eheh, I haven't really focused on the lyrics yet (so the album still has a lot to give to me !).
As for the guitars, there are plenty ! I love all the guitar parts/solos in "Venice Bitch", for instance.
As an old Suede lover, this long instrumental jam part in "VB" reminds me of the long version of "Let's Stay Together"...
And to stay on Britpop references, there's a part in "Love Song" that reminds me of... Oasis' "Wonderwall" ! Maybe that's why I don't like it as much as the rest...

More precisely it's the "Love Song" part :
"It all comes down to make the sound of our love song"

which reminds me of the "Wonderwall" part :
"Would like to say to you but I don't know how"

That's the "Strawberry Fields Forever" part, right? More Lennon.

fuck it i luh yuh

yeah I loathe that particular affectation

or rather, i loa it

Got to say I’m with imago there, it ruins the song for me

I’m not sure clear diction was one of her goals on this !

I think it's the point that she doesn't say the word in that song, and comes closer to pronouncing "like," but can't actually commit even to that

loaife you

as someone who finds this album interesting & substantial but hardly above critique ... im finding lots of wild takes on both sides of the aisle lol

There are very few occasions where I wish I were still a profesh music critic but I would be very happy to have 2k words to repeat that LDR is hipster lib-centrist trash for the unbearably cynical who are very certain they are the exact opposite, she is basically Beto O'Rourke.

— Joshua Clover (@joshuaclov3r) September 4, 2019

damn.

I've just been calling it a reminder that pumpkin spice season came early this year.

Joshua Clover was an excellent writer and a person who looked like a bean sprout in black jeans who has become an awful troll.

the verso money got to him

also at some point he became friends w michael robbins

wouldn't call it cynical, but you can definitely hear the gears moving behind a lot of her lyrical and aesthetic decisions imo. that's not a problem, it was true of bowie too.

that dude has been trash for as long as I can remember.

Bowie’s a decent comparison tbh

Cynicism = bad faith; using scorn, sardonicism, etc to mask an essential sentimentality. She has flaws, but I never got that from LDR.

Bowie’s a decent comparison tbh

― omar little, Wednesday,

No it's not! Only briefly (1983-1987) did I think Bowie indulged in bad faith. So many of his strategies are to project beyond his physical ability to care like the soul singers he loves.

maybe cynical is the wrong word, or i don't define it that way.

Or, rather, I should say that LDR, Bowie, and Ferry have much in common but cynicism has fuck all to do with it.

Too often "cynical" means "bitter" or "sarcastic" when those words are consequences not ends.

i was thinking more as "a winking manipulation"--basically the knowledge that she has her audience and the press in the palm of her hand, and leaves them lyrical catnip.

Every cynic I know wishes the world were a better place, which only a fucking sentimentalist would believe.

I only agree with the Bowie comparison strictly artistically, not the cynicism!

i was thinking more as "a winking manipulation"--basically the knowledge that she has her audience and the press in the palm of her hand, and leaves them lyrical catnip.

― normal fucking rockman (voodoo chili),

Too many artists at their peak are too distracted to go for this five-dimensional chess. It's like accusing Trump of strategy.

Now waiting for Jane Dark's LDR Hot Take.

LDR on this album and elsewhere reminds me sometimes of early Bowie, not like exactly but in terms of a certain approach and a certain theatrical sentimentality that hits harder on record than it does on paper.

xxp

but some artists do this! even huge artists--lennon, bowie, taylor swift, etc. are hyper-aware that every word they say is going to be dissected and that definitely affects their songwriting.

lmao at the 'lib-centrist' criticism, it's not as if she's been pretending to make some marxist criticism of america this whole time

I'm not going to get into an argument about intentions, but for sixty years we've given pop artists way too much credit/blame for a calculation that has never gotten in the way of a dumb hook. If you wanna say that good dumb hooks get written or are stumbled on and the audiences fall into their hands, that's another thing; it's a different question from creating standard contract-filling albums.

Come on now. Bowie's lyrics were often literal nonsense — remember his fascination with Burroughsian "cut-ups." LDR's lyrics may be obvious at times (though they're more often sharper than she's given credit for, at least until this album when a lot of people seem to have suddenly discovered that she's smart), but even the obviousness is always intentional. Nothing is left to "chance" with her. Also, she's been playing the same character for almost a decade; Bowie never hung onto a persona for more than what, three years?

Clover created a tweet thread attacking the hippie-punching in OUATIH that made a couple good points but didn't acknowledge the white supremacist views of the Manson crew.

as a leftist I really REALLY wish leftists would stop trying to do hip contrarian pop culture takes for attention. they're almost always bullshit (see also basically any Jacobin pop culture piece)

my pussy tastes like praaaaaaaxis

i can't think of a culture-critic who more often seems to try to speak with wildly more critical authority than he actually has than clover.

Clover created a tweet thread attacking the hippie-punching in OUATIH

Couple of glasses of wine in, I read this as OU812.

Ann Powers's take: https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/757545360/lana-del-rey-lives-in-americas-messy-subconscious

What’s that opening paragraph, some kind of cod Joan Didion?

yes

there was another review somewhere that explicitly drew a comparison between del rey and ...play it as it lays maybe? can't recall.

Piece is a little shaggy but has lots of individual observations I really like

She's good.

When’s someone gonna release a concept album about the San Fernando Valley? All we have is the Karate Kid soundtrack.

Isn’t the entire No Doubt discography a multi-volume concept album about the Valley?

Here’s a little sidenote on your piece – I don’t even relate to one observation you made about the music. There’s nothing uncooked about me. To write about me is nothing like it is to be with me. Never had a persona. Never needed one. Never will.

— Lana Del Rey (@LanaDelRey) September 5, 2019

Looks like Lana didn’t like Ann’s article

So don’t call yourself a fan like you did in the article and don’t count your editor one either – I may never never have made bold political or cultural statements before- because my gift is the warmth I live my life with and the self reflection I share generously.

— Lana Del Rey (@LanaDelRey) September 5, 2019

And speaking of not understanding how criticism works...

Also how the hell is she going to write a whole ass article without even asking you a single question like ??? There is no quotes in it at all

— angel of radiant excellence (@Allison_Perezz) September 5, 2019

“never had a persona” ok

honestly that might be the most radical thing about lana del rey i’ve read this album cycle

personally I prefer not to ask questions when writing ass articles

this instance is particularly frustrating because it happened to a genuinely excellent piece of criticism; there are some cases where artists get upset over a review where I can see how they have the tiniest kernel of a point, in that the article could have used a redraft to address certain things [I include some things I've written in that], but the npr review was best-of-the-decade material

i'd thought she seemed fairly self-aware about her persona but i guess not?

lol you don't wanna get interpreted then don't make 1 art, artist

I'm not a huge fan of AP's work a lot of the time but that piece was really good. I'm actually baffled at what LDR could have found objectionable about it (beyond the Trumpian "anything short of worship renders you an enemy" mindset, which is really beneath her, or anyone with a functioning frontal lobe).

im honestly baffled by her assertion that she, LANA DEL REY, doesn't have a persona.

there's nothing wrong with having a persona, i mean, ask robert zimmerman, or david jones, or james osterburg

im honestly baffled by her assertion that she, LANA DEL REY, doesn't have a persona.

Yeah, there's kayfabe and then there's that.

Isn’t the entire No Doubt discography a multi-volume concept album about the Valley?

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:06 PM (yesterday)

No doubt was from Orange County

also, to be fair, this isn't lana-related, but there's something deeply unsettling about a bunch of 15-year-olds gleefully shouting "YES END HER CAREER MAKE HER UNEMPLOYED" in this late capitalism-scape

i guess she took offense to her lyrics being described as 'uncooked' in comparison to joni mitchell's because that's the part of the review she most directly singles out, but the next paragraph then goes on to basically say "these lyrics are still good though, just in a different way to mitchell's" so it's less unfavourable to her than it initially reads

the ann powers review really articulates basically everything i feel about the album, except i like it less than she does. it reads like a rave, this is not a good look.

What LDR did was monstrous.

send out the Twitter hordes!

It amazes me that in 2019 artists regard a persona as inauthentic.

She should name her next album "Persona Non Grata."

i guess she took offense to her lyrics being described as 'uncooked' in comparison to joni mitchell's because that's the part of the review she most directly singles out, but the next paragraph then goes on to basically say "these lyrics are still good though, just in a different way to mitchell's" so it's less unfavourable to her than it initially reads

― ufo, Thursday, September 5, 2019 10:37 AM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

sure, but they also are uncooked in comparison to joni mitchell's. most lyrics are! any songwriter, besides maybe fifteen people, who has a reasonable sense of one's skills, if someone said "this isn't as good as joni mitchell," should think "yeah, it probably isn't."

maybe she knows that Persona is a video game & that gives her mixed feelings

yeah i agree katherine, i wasn't saying that powers was wrong, just trying to figure out what ldr's issue with it was

I'd guess just the fact that another person was mentioned at all -- at some point it became accepted wisdom that comparisons to other artists were bad, rather than a sign that you've engaged enough with a record to contextualize it within your inner world

If that were the case she should be tweeting about the Pitchfork name-drop-a-rama review.

Seems like a powers-conducted interview would defuse this p quick, assuming anyone cares 24 hours from now

it's also especially strange that she's taking such offense to that review when she really should be no stranger to critics saying much worse (actually negative) and weirder things about her, you'd think she'd have learned not to take the things reviewers say too personally with the sort of treatment she's gotten before

didn't LDR describe herself as a "gangster Nancy Sinatra"? I guess she has actual mob ties

there are some cases where artists get upset over a review where I can see how they have the tiniest kernel of a point, in that the article could have used a redraft to address certain things [I include some things I've written in that], but the npr review was best-of-the-decade material

― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, September 5, 2019 4:26 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, exactly this. Baffled by why she felt the need to lash out after this.

beyond the Trumpian "anything short of worship renders you an enemy" mindset, which is really beneath her, or anyone with a functioning frontal lobe

Baffled by why she felt the need to lash out after this.

Combining these two points because it occurs to me that there's potentially another Trumpian connection -- the need of an enemy. ANY enemy. And if she has to go find one, she will.

Tbh i find this level of self sabotage and needlessly getting in yer own way pretty relatable

I don’t agree with LDR’s tweet and think it’s very short-sighted, but I agree even less with calling her Trumpian or “monstrous”.

I said this before, but “all that musicians need in order to create a rich body of work for their entire lifetime is endless praise, what is so hard to understand about that?”

how many reviews did she read before she pounced on that nothingness?? reading reviews of your art seems like a very bad not good idea but what do I know

Tbh i find this level of self sabotage and needlessly getting in yer own way pretty relatable

― Simon H., Thursday, September 5, 2019 6:10 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

So do I! But I'm not sure this is what this is.

I don’t agree with LDR’s tweet and think it’s very short-sighted, but I agree even less with calling her Trumpian or “monstrous”.

Inciting your fans to attack a writer is monstrous behavior.

man, Twitter is worse than usual today

As an old Suede lover, this long instrumental jam part in "VB" reminds me of the long version of "Let's Stay Together"...
And to stay on Britpop references, there's a part in "Love Song" that reminds me of... Oasis' "Wonderwall"
― AlXTC from Paris

Haven't done a direct comparison so it may be faulty memory, but I can't play "Mariners Apartment Complex" without hearing Verve's "Lucky Man."

Also, if LDR is catcalling writers who are doing nothing but heaping praise upon her work, then there’s another point of common ground wrt Joni

i don't think she's deliberately inciting fans to harass the writer, like i'm not sure how aware artists really are of ridiculous twitter stan dynamics except when they end up harassed themselves by fans of someone else due to something stupid but i'd hesitate to attribute that sort of maliciousness to her replying to a critic to disagree with the review

I suppose it's wrong to say she did this intentionally, but she has to be aware of power dynamics. Directly responding to a writer's tweet will incite fans.

she has to be aware of power dynamics

You sure? If you still think you're the underdog...

I understand the “hey if you can’t handle criticism don’t make music etc” argument but at the same time I figure there are tiny straws that break artists’ backs when they read their own reviews.

Her stans are awful, she should know better than to trigger her vicious tumblrina hordes to attack a reviewer. It’s not a fair fight.

Down on the West Coast they got a saying

now let's play big bank take little bank?

That said, her directly addressing that review above other reviews means more people will read it. Even bad publicity is good no?

Often these days it leads publications to pursue more timid options for future coverage.

NPR's already too timid to print the 2nd word in the album title (ha ha).

Norman Public Rockwell

National F****** Radio

why is Johnny Knoxville's younger bro on the album cover

NPR's too timid to report that eradicating environmental protections is bad.

Inciting your fans to attack a writer is monstrous behavior.

At least it was a good week of enjoying this album before she made me feel gross for thinking about playing it again.

The whole internet loves Pepsi-Cola Duck

At least it was a good week of enjoying this album before she made me feel gross for thinking about playing it again.

― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Thursday, September 5, 2019 3

goddamn manchild imo

it was a dumb move but pretty minor as far as musician trespasses go. I suspect Ann Powers will be fine

I suspect Ann Powers will be fine

Yeah, as I said on Twitter, having one of the industry's biggest artists come gunning for you after a review isn't as damaging to an NPR music writer's career as being open about your political beliefs and acting on them.

also I imagine most of the ppl pestering her about it are young women rather than men so at least the tone of the backlash should be less awful than it could have been with some other acts. maybe.

have you been around catty gay men in your life

goddamn manchild imo

she really pwned me in the next line :(

have you been around catty gay men in your life

I can think of worse demos.

About 40 percent of LDR's fan base consists of CGM.

I had forgotten how this all happene before:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/jun/20/lana-del-rey-problem-interview-but-why

with the same language, too: "Alexis (sic) was masked as a fan but was hiding sinister ambitions and angles. Maybe he's actually the boring one looking for something interesting to write about."

https://homeofmetal.com/wp-content/uploads/pre/201205091354527153/201205091354527153.jpg

"Problem interview, but why?"

Hmm I like Lana del rey more now ... saying she doesn’t have a persona is a rick Ross level boss move

In that recent Billboard interview, she seemed delighted to be characterized as "disarmingly basic" — so story checks out, I guess?

Adverbs are awful.

awfully awful

pretty bad

pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty.... bad

...those are all intensifying adjectives

pretty can be qualifying or intensifying depending on context

https://twitter.com/i/events/1169745989697036288

I didn't know anything about her or her music but now I know she's a tosser

finally pic.twitter.com/brL6VtTiHy

— everett byram (@rad_milk) September 6, 2019

woo... not following twitter or anything, I just found out about yesterday's drama !
So the album's already dead ?

Fortunately Lana Del Rey has moved on with the generosity of heart that is her most memorable virtue.

lol sorry that was 2017

So, is now the time that I should listen to this and drop my precious hot takes onto the thread or should I continue not being That Guy?

I think you should drop your precious hot takes on Twitter while constantly tagging LDR.

treat her as you would Tony Hadley.

Do it!

I was going to ignore the new Lana Del Rey album but after seeing her lose her mind over a positive review, I decided I should check it out. (For those just tuning in, I don't expect this go well.)

— DJP (@djperry1973) September 6, 2019

this is going well so far but i feel there's scope for more shade

oh god the needless cusses by LDR are def lol

another weird quirk of the sequencing is that it mostly frontloads the f-bombs

I think most uses of profanity in music are pretty needless and lazy, but that's where we're at, so wtf cares about the scattered profanity, especially on an album with profanity in the title.

Looks like DJP is unfamiliar with Sublime deep cuts.

i like that she had many fucks to give

djp otm about "how to disappear," incidentally my favorite song here

it's not just needless and lazy cussing, it doesn't suit this style of music. it sticks out and calls attention to itself and like DJP tweeted comes across as "check out how fucking edgy I am"

I have been bewildered a bit by the love for LDR/this album in this thread. It's been my hate read.

yikes, and so otm about the "the touch, feel of cotton/The fabric of our lives."

I hated this and at points wanted to tear off my skin but... I still liked it more than I thought I would? For starters, I got through the whole thing.

She also, surprisingly, doesn't sound fucking awful on every single goddamned song

I feel like she would make it to the quarterfinals of one of the later The Voice seasons.

I knew "The Greatest" reminded me of something and today I realized it's "Mind Games."

My current take on the album (which I like) is that it's this year's Golden Hour. New Weed America.

xpost So ... as good as bad gets? As bad as good gets?

xpost See? Solo John Lennon! And I was just talking to someone last week about his current currency as a solo artist.

Oh, I thought this was interesting. Neil Finn made a point (to his fans) of dropping off social media a while back, but he has been writing newsletters, hosting radio shows and call-in opportunities from hotels and whatnot while on tour with Fleetwood Mac. He made this pretty innocent observation the other day in a newsletter which, while I have no idea if it has anything to do with LDR, at least indirectly does:

Here’s a thought to consider. I’ve been noticing there’s a few singers out there who sound very tired, are mangling their vowels and even seem to have trouble finishing off their words. I’m wondering whether this has anything to do with the proliferation of pharmaceutical opiates? Perhaps they are just playing to a whole new “stoned” audience. There are some strange affectations around. I may do a review of contemporary singing styles in my next show.

I think I'd really like Lana Del Ray if her songs were all much shorter, like two minutes. They aren't.

yeah this is a good chill summer album for sure. also the cussin is cool with me, it's nothing shocking since she's been doing it for five albums now.

I knew "The Greatest" reminded me of something and today I realized it's "Mind Games."

Read that as "Mind Grimes" for a second.

I feel like she would make it to the quarterfinals of one of the later The Voice seasons.

Remember when Scott Brown's daughter was on American Idol and made the semifinal round? That's LDR.

Calling this this year’s golden hour is very generous

I'm no stan or anything, but if memory serves these were the kinds of dismissals that her first (or whatever) album got. But now she's five or so successful albums in, and sells out arenas, so clearly people like what she's doing, and it must be for something other than how well she would fare on American Idol.

My current take on the album (which I like) is that it's this year's Golden Hour

only makes me wish this record sounded as good as golden hour

I hated this and at points wanted to tear off my skin but... I still liked it more than I thought I would? For starters, I got through the whole thing.

She also, surprisingly, doesn't sound fucking awful on every single goddamned song

I consider this the greatest victory for Lana that we could have expected



it's not just needless and lazy cussing, it doesn't suit this style of music. it sticks out and calls attention to itself and like DJP tweeted comes across as "check out how fucking edgy I am"

I like the lines "Fresh out of fucks forever*" and "You fucked me so good that I almost said 'I love you'" on their face, think that te reverse bathos of "I've been tearing around in my fucking nightgown -
24/7 Sylvia Plath" works, and can't remember any other particular fucks bar the titular ones.

* lol turns out she wasn't

Josh, read the subset of my thread starting here:

I admit that my extreme antipathy for Lana Del Rey's music sometimes makes me feel estranged from others in my music appreciation circles whose tastes run otherwise concurrent to mine. I keep giving her chances because I respect the opinions of many of the people repping her.

— DJP (@djperry1973) September 6, 2019

Ha. I still think the secret to liking this album is (in my case) this literally being the only LDR I've ever heard. That said, who knows if I'll listen to it again.

only makes me wish this record sounded as good as golden hour

Antonoff at least refrained from his worst tendencies (he saved the martial drums for Taylor). But yeah.

* lol turns out she wasn't

LOL - v good point.

my fave f-bomb on the album is How to Disappear's "Joe met me down at the training yard / cuts on his face 'cause he fucked too hard", both for the delivery and the bizarre relationship it establishes very quickly

DJP, your "ASMR aversion therapy" comment made me wonder if you've listened to Billie Eilish yet?

I have! That album fucking rules.

Ah yes it’s that point when an artist gets enough attention that people already disposed to dislike the art feel compelled to barf their dislike, instead of ignoring the art and its thread. Maybe this is why I don’t read music criticism.

If you would like an all-positive circle jerk, I'm sure you own a mirror

given that this thing got a 9.4 from pfork i think it could stand to be criticized a little

especially since everybody i know who loves it has a customized tracklist lol

Ah yes it’s that point when an artist gets enough attention that people already disposed to dislike the art feel compelled to barf their dislike, instead of ignoring the art and its thread. Maybe this is why I don’t read music criticism.

― L'assie (Euler), Friday, September 6, 2019 8:59 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

If you would like an all-positive circle jerk, I'm sure you own a mirror

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, September 6, 2019 9:01 PM (twenty-seven seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

i am basically palpatine as vader and skywalker lock lightsabres rn

if I were LDR's manager I would suggest booking ten studio days, each two weeks apart, armed just with Antonoff and an array of upsetting news stories for inspiration. there's the next album dusted

incidentally, anyone who wants to envision what a relatively upbeat LDR record could/should sound like, I recommend the new Lower Dens, which is out today

my own criticisms of this album could probably stand to be moderated, honed and softened a little. i did get through the whole album and i didn't outright hate it. but i have many problems with it, and with the adulation it's receiving. it has the trappings and scope of a grand artistic statement but i can't find the substance anywhere. as art it feels, by the standards of what i like, extremely surface-level and basic. there's (to me) little careful sonic consideration, surprise or songwriting depth, but instead superficially pretty melodies, a vague gesture towards capturing some sort of (suspiciously luxurious) existential malaise and above all the desire to seem extremely cool within her bourgie artistic milieu of names who call each other 'norman fucking rockwell' as a form of hyperbolic approbation. the flipside of this is a spoilt kid who won't take criticism, viz. her absurd and revealing recent outburst.

the album frontloads its most effective material (the preview tracks) but even they fail to lift me as their dreamy multiplicity begs - there's just not enough spark, passion or ingenuity. i will admit that the sublime cover thing appealed more than the rest of the album, probably because putting her in a kitschy throwback trip-hop context actually gives her a persona. which, as she vigorously protests, she is otherwise in want of

it is probably corny to say it but it's screaming to be said: the weyes blood album is everything good that this record is not quite. and pitchfork, unable to hang their hat on an easy signifier of greatness, chickened out and gave it 8.5. because weyes blood isn't a name

pitchfork, unable to hang their hat on an easy signifier of greatness, chickened out and gave it 8.5

thanks, dominic cummings

The number of people who think my reason for disliking "Doin' Time" is invalid because it's a Sublime cover makes me think white people are really, really stupid

LDR and Weyes Blood both tend to be too much of the same thing, however good that thing may be.

I currently have someone on Twitter saying it's odd I tweeted about the album without researching the tracks because I didn't immediately peg that song as a cover, which is seriously the dumbest fucking thing I've read in a while (and I've been on the politics thread)

xxp i didn't...suggest anything about your reasons, i was just calling it that because that's what i think of it as :(

xxxxp good post, imago

the cussing thing seems fairly normal to me on this and I'm not entirely sure why I'm fine with it here when, say, Amanda Palmer does it it makes my skin crawl. But there it is.

imago, for a change I am not talking about you

The Ann Powers review that inspired your track-by-track review is researched thoughtful criticism. You cited it as your reason to listen to NFR! (Or at least Del Rey’s reaction to it). Then you didn’t research the material. It just seems like a strange thing to do.

— Andy (@MrAndySC) September 6, 2019

ah right gotcha, i'd just called it a sublime cover and i'm usually p defensive after writing criticism of music based on 13 years of my own overexcited ilxing so i hope a forgivable misread

xp why don't you do more research before you tweet, you're ruining the discourse

I am unfamiliar with the Sublime song but not Summertime and was trying to figure out what LBC stood for and automatically went to the worst option to sing.

xxp

Lol, do you know that guy or is that some random drive-by to chide you about "research"?

it's pretty hilarious that someone who named herself "Lana Del Rey" says she doesn't have a persona

I think she meant no personality

As far as I know, I've never encountered or interacted with this person before.

Just needed to swoop in and explain some stuff, Twitter in a nutshell

lana's counting on him

she's fucking counting on him

now I'm hoping White Hot Forever will feature a song about how she's in love with a toxic reply guy

also apparently she did an album's worth of material with Miles Kane/Last Shadow Puppets but only "California" was salvaged

it is a little surprising to me that you didn't recognize the sublime song given that it was on commercial radio every four minutes in the late 90's but I also admit that may have been a california-centric thing. Is this song as instantly recognizable to people in other regions?

I know Summertime, did not know for weeks that the Lana song was not quoting it directly

The first time I heard it on the radio, same, I thought she was just referencing it because I had never heard the Sublime song.

wikipedia tells me that "The song is featured in the soundtrack for the 2001 video game Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2." How on earth can you not know that? j/k

it was 87 on the modern rock chart!

I'm v familar w/the song (and hate its guts), but whatever.

(I also didn't live in CA when it was on the radio)

Sublime s/t is classic SoCal, overplayed to death but far better than its reputation.

it was 87 on the modern rock chart!

the what now

today in "someone you probably don't want support from":

They don’t deserve you. Brush that dirt off your shoulder. You’re a master song sorceress and we hear you .

— Ryan Adams (@TheRyanAdams) September 6, 2019

yeeeikes

Omar otm, “Doing time” is a solid jam

think I’ll pass on this thread

it's an alright song by sublime, a band I otherwise loathe (ok I don't mind What I got either)

ryan adams please go away

in contrast to LDR:

I’ve always enjoyed criticism well-rendered and the 0.0 had some humor to it- enjoyed it more than others I can tell you 😘 https://t.co/92teLHmanh

— Liz Phair (@PhizLair) September 6, 2019

Phair is ten million times cooler than LDR but in fairness she does have the benefit of almost two decades’ worth of of perspective on this

It’s a contrast in many ways, I guess

I don't fucking practice santeria

It's not the worst thing for an artist to say they don't see themselves in a review that focuses not just on the album but a perception of who they are.

i will say she has good judgment when it comes to her fellow artists:

Grande’s name is one that crops up a few times during our conversation and is clearly someone Del Rey respects. When discussing the long flow of singles in the run-up to ‘Norman Fucking Rockwell!’, she credits Grande’s “reactiveness” for making her feel “more comfortable putting things out as I wanted to and as they happened”. Later, after having the “the culture is lit” line from ‘The Greatest’ recited back to her (she responds by repeating it in a voice that can only be described as valley girl on spring break), the pop star is one of two artists she cites by name as getting her approval (the other is Billie Eilish, someone who has done a similar thing to Del Rey and carved out her own inimitable cultural niche).

“Ariana’s baseline energy is super interesting to me,” she offers as one reason why she likes her. “She’s really fast. There’s not much time between a thought and a manifestation. There’s something for me to learn there.”

a manifestation

Edmund Fucking Husserl

my favorite line on the album (today anyway) is "I was one thing, now I'm being another"

take that, Twitter!

I’m finally reading Kim Gordon’s excellent memoir, Girl in a Band, and came across this very timely assessment pic.twitter.com/ETeLYquQ9R

— Philip Sherburne (@PhilipSherburne) September 8, 2019

I don't know about writing LDR out of feminism, though

Pretty useless passage tbh

a dude using a passage from a book by a woman to assail another woman's feminist bonafides is "interesting" let's say

Does Kim's take come from anything real beyond LDR's lyrics?

Is she referring to LDR's once-rumored involvement w/Axl Rose ("gross older men")?

She dated Marylin Manson too I think which is almost as equally gross as dating Axl.

I wasn't very aware of her love life but googling around (https://www.whosdatedwho.com/dating/lana-del-rey) I've found out she mostly dates gross looking men.

Wait, Moby? Really?

kim was married to thurston who treated her like shit and is an apparent dog. do we hold that against her?

Axl is legit cooler than Thurston, lol

Anyway I’m not an LDR fan, but critiquing her on the basis of whom she dates feels kind of uncool.

kim is probably talking about her lyrics circa born to die

"transient biker queen" def refers to the Ride video and there is fetishization of "gross older men" both fictional (object of off to the races) and not (literally harvey weinstein) on BTD and paradise

i'm not a "BTD is compromised juvenalia" guy tho, an important part of/launching pad for her project imo

LDR's lyrics + LDR's videos + LDR's persona in interviews + LDR's rumored dating life + the collapse of Kim's marriage = Kim being less than charitable to another female artist over her dating choices and how they may or may not manifest in her art

Wait, Moby? Really?

https://www.vulture.com/2019/05/moby-on-being-politely-shut-down-ny-lana-del-rey.html

Finally got around to listening. I actually quite like a lot of it, but relate to the people way above saying it’s worth creating its own playlist of selected songs—there are tracks I could probably do without, but maybe on more listens they’ll lock into place.

A couple of people up above were praising Venice Bitch, and I don’t hate the track but I could probably find like two and a half minutes in there that I would cut and probably feel fine.

Paging morrisp: LDR covers "Break up with your girlfriend I'm bored" around 128 mins in here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008914

Haha, thanks... I’ll “scrub” ahead to that timecode and check it out

tbh the main thing this has taught me is that no one is good at defining what a "persona" is

dumbest comments I've seen have to be "oh, so you _really_ fucked your way up to the top, like that song title?"

I never got the impression that Lana Del Rey (persona on top of the base Lizzy Grant personality, or maybe just her now) was speaking literally and not sarcastically/ironically

dumbest comments I've seen have to be "oh, so you _really_ fucked your way up to the top, like that song title?"

*bows*

hah, I hadn't seen that coming from you, Alfred!

regardless, the cynicism that I thought I've heard in LDR songs all these years may have been overstated, even if the lyrics clearly aren't autobiographical

I'd addressed similar comments to her fans, not LDR herself.

fair!

her fans seem young and impressionable, and I do kind of wonder if there's a segment that take things a little too literally

This is as appropriate a moment as any to repost this rather unsettling tutorial:

https://www.wikihow.com/Emulate-Lana-Del-Rey

that article pushes her a few places higher in the 'worst fans in music' stakes

You're speaking your mind, even if it is not popular. Such a Lana thing to do.

That Ariana cover is pretty good !

^^^^classic Lana statement

I hadn't seen these lovely 2018 versions of "How To Disappear" and "Venice Bitch (well, Chick, actually !)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9WK6olGkDY

Actually "How To Disappear" is one of my favourite songs from this album atm.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/09/8483496/sean-larkin-lana-del-rey-boyfriend-cop

there's little that needs to be added tbh

sticks seems cool good job lana

the greatest is also just bracingly good, ive prob played it 100+ times this month

i kind of burned out on this album after playing it nonstop for two or three weeks.

i was so into it before personagate and now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯