The 'Shit Trend' in pop music right now

Ugh... 'Happy' is playing on the radio and the only heartening thing about it is that finally it feels like we're coming out of that obnoxious faux-town craze that lasted wayyy too long.
But there's always going to be a 'Shit Trend' in pop music that exemplifies a particular time - usually it involves producers and artists jumping on an actually very credible idea, but pumping out as many watered-down versions as possible before the trend expires.
Right now, the extent reggaeton-lite fad is clearly becoming more than just a fad as it's been going on for years and recently reared its head with DJ Snake's 'Taki Taki'.
Is this the 'shit trend' right now? Or is there something more insidiously bland waiting in the wings? What other shit trends have there been in history, ones that despite being a bit shit seem to exemplify a two or three year stretch?

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--TtXBmK1v--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/cy99k7hwkcxoqclsmrzs.png

Is that a trend or just a one-off novelty hit though? I think there's a difference. The shit trend is something where someone has a hit and immediately everyone piggie-backs off it. Like, how many lightweight pop songs have become huge hits off the back of Despacito, just because they feature a little Spanglish and a weak-ass reggaeton beat?

do you like "Despacito"?

everybody likes despacito?

5 billion views can't be wrong!

(It's shit)

You mean like grunge, DL? Or Britpop? That kind of thing?

if you mean semi-credible underground music hyped up and co-opted into the mainstream then watered down for tweens? then I suspect it's mumble/ soundcloud isn't it?

both britpop waves qualify for this, yes. it doesn't mean there wasn't some gold amongst the shite

5 billion views can't be wrong!

(It's shit)

― imago, Monday, October 15, 2018

I'm delighted we're listening to "Despacito" (which existed before the Bieber remix) through English-speaking ears.

DL do you mean literally every style of pop music that has been popular ever?

It's actually harder to think of examples where everyone hasn't immediately jumped on the bandwagon and started producing knock-offs.

waiting for this fuckin' 55-year 'white boys with guitars' trend to finally die out

THANK YOU

fucking shit trend imo

Despacito is terrible, but it's exactly as thomasintrouble is saying, it's a pervasive sound that's part of a co-option of something credible and underground. That's not necessarily what a 'shit trend' is, but often it's the case. It'll be looked back on as 'that time when all the popstars had to have a hit song with loping clipclop rhythm and a guest verse in Spanish.

Not sure if grunge / britpop as genres count within themselves, but certainly the music that came after - the many many many bands that came in the wake of Kurt's death or post-Oasis who sounded like a refraction of that music, but nowhere close. Nickleback, Puddle of Mudd, endless hyped NME landfill indie bands.

Nu-metal is definitely one though, even though maybe the first couple of Korn albums, Deftones, Linkin Park each had credible moments, the influence of nu-metal pervaded so much of American culture that even established metal bands like Slayer, Sepultura, Machinehead, were pretty much forced to change their style and make albums in that style. I'd even go so far as to say that it reached beyond rock music, into hiphop (Eminem's popularity I'd say is directly attributable to the permeation of nu-metal brat culture); even bratty gross-out stuff like Tom Green and Jackass tied into it. It all came to signify a very turn-of-the century pre-911 vibe that has aged incredibly badly and few remember particularly fondly.

DL do you mean literally every style of pop music that has been popular ever?

― Matt DC, Monday, October 15, 2018 2:18 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's actually harder to think of examples where everyone hasn't immediately jumped on the bandwagon and started producing knock-offs.

― Matt DC, Monday, October 15, 2018 2:21 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah... yeah I guess,.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdolTNroyhM

waiting for this fuckin' 55-year 'white boys with guitars' trend to finally die out

― himalayan mountain hole (bizarro gazzara), Monday, October 15, 2018 2:21 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It is though, isn't it? I mean, I can't think of that many non-legacy big-selling acts out today that really fit this schema nowadays save for maybe a few pop-punk emoish bands?

"Credible" is not a useful idea when talking about music IMO.

(Truthfully I'm struggling to define the word "credible" better than "critically respectable amongst rock critics" so if there's a better or more useful definition than that I'd be happy to hear it)

Im thinking of how after "Uptown Funk" there was a definite run of attempts ti recreate it, eg Fleur East and Aston Merrygold

xp re credibility: isn't it that old idea/l that they're "in it for the Art not the money"

'blindly following the shit trends in pop music' is basically the career of olly murs in a nutshell

boxedjoy Yes, this kind of thing.. 'Uptown Funk' and 'Blurred Lines' doing 80s funk; but I'm surprised not more people jumped on it?

I'm not interested in talking about the semantics of the word 'credible' ITT really

Oh there's that thing, I think they call it the 'dolphin noise' which was kind of cool when Bieber did that song with Skrillex and DJ Snake did 'Turn Down For What', but is now such a default noise in so many songs you barely notice it

finally an ilx thread about how nu-metal sucks

I do appreciate Doglatin's patient attempts at defining what a 'shit trend' is for those who might not be able to get their head round the concept.

As an offshoot of the dolphin noise there's also a 'electronically distorted unintelligible and vaguely ghostly backing vocals as a hook' thing that happens in a lot of pop songs from the latter part of this decade. I'd say it's post-Burial, but I don't think that's really the reference point for these tunes, e.g:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-IoluTnuKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwjwCFZpdns

OK DL I'll leave it alone for the sake of the thread but from reading your posts it (or some other associated idea) seems pretty important to understanding what you're talking about.

I like DJ Snake's (with Selena Gomez, Ozuna, & Cardi B) 'Taki Taki'. "Despacito" too. "Reggaeton-lite" is in both of these cases pop-reggaeton that's worthy.

On listening to commercial radio today, apparently the 'Passenger' singing voice is still a thing.

xps ^ ah yes, the 'we got a criminally-insane gagged-and-bound Victorian prison inmate to do our backing vocals' sound

The 'Passenger' voice. I hear so many buskers and open mic type people (women and men) doing this voice. Like a Fraggle with two plumstones in the mouth

The multi-voice 'oh-oh-OHH-oh oh-oh-OHH-oh's or variations of it filling in the gaps between the lyrics in choruses. Imagine Dragons, Arcade Fire, all that shit. It will not go away.

The 'Passenger' voice. I hear so many buskers and open mic type people (women and men) doing this voice. Like a Fraggle with two plumstones in the mouth

― Scritti Vanilli - The Word Girl You Know It's True (dog latin), Monday, October 15, 2018 8:57 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah this is trash. even ladies are doing the passenger voice now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SU0gFPMwP8

spot on

Reggaeton-lite has been a staple of the charts for a good 15 years now (La Tortura, etc), and Imagine Dragons and Arcade Fire are arguable on a downward trajectory after peaking in terms of 'relevance' five years ago. Passenger's big hit was six years ago, surely this vocal style can't stay much longer. The 'shit trend' us old people are going to be annoyed with in the coming years is probably post-Gangnam Style K-Pop.

That stunningly bad recent Diplo/Sia/Labrinth song is the first thing I thought of re this thread.

I came into this thread expecting to learn about a bizarre theme of coprophilia appearing throughout the Hot 100... imagine my disappointment to discover the truth.

there was an "eat the booty like groceries" line hopping around rap and r&b a few years ago

I have been waiting for rock to die since the mid 90s.

I can’t believe that reggaeton has become more forward thinking than mainstream rock which has found comfort in not doing anything that feels remotely original for almost three decades.

but what is mainstream rock these days? lots of people complaining about it and yet I don't really hear any on my travels? apart from when they leave Radio X on in the work kitchen, which is all Foo Fighters and Biffy Clyro, but that barely counts as new music ?

Tell me with a straight face this isn’t the most depressive billboard list of the decade:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Mainstream_Rock_number-one_songs_of_the_2010s

it's been decades since the best or most interesting rock music was accurately captured in a billboard modern rock chart.

And the “rock” list is equally laughable:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_number-one_Billboard_Rock_Songs

But that mainstream rock list gives me shivers, had to recheck if the year for those songs was wrong. Poor genre has been trapped in a loop. I’ll take terrible trends over not following a trend at all and being trapped in that graveyard.

it's been decades since the best or most interesting rock music was accurately captured in a billboard modern rock chart.

― voodoo chili

I’m not talking about what’s going on in the underground or the indie scene. This thread is about the mainstream. What would be the biggest rock bands that weren’t popular in the 90’s nowadays? Imagine Dragons, 21 pilots, Black Keys? I’ll take the current trend of trap and reggaeton over those ay day.

This ‘current’ trend of trap and reggaeton as mainstream chart music is also nearing the end of its second decade on top, not looking particularly fresh.

As someone who started listening to reggaeton in 2003 (and I realize that makes me a relative latecomer), I'm genuinely curious what is "forward thinking" about the genre in 2018. I guess if you could explain that, I might be better able to follow your argument.

progress in music is an illusion put in place to sell garbage

Totally. There's a clear continuum between the Seikilos Epitaph and 'Girls Like You'.

This isn't me actively defending reggaeton, I'm rather attacking rock which seems to only exist in a vacuum of self-congratulatory gatekeeping and revivals.

The style of reggaeton from 2003 made popular by Daddy Yankee and Don Omar (reggaeton subgenres known as Romantiqueo or Perre) is decidedly different from what J Balvin or Maluma have been making which could be classified as Reggaeton Pop which keeps feedbacking on trends and styles in pop music - in the middle of both styles you get Ozuna. Taki taki is closer to the old style, but listen to 'siguelo bailando' by him ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvpd9_5vuks ). It's still based on the dembow beat but the sound design marks an evolution into reggaeton pop.

Reggaeton is extremely limited, a genre based almost entirely on the dembow beat but unlike rock it keeps reaching out into other trends. While it maybe felt like a novelty in the US/Europe 15+ years ago, it has already cemented into global culture and this will only mean the genre will move forward and out of latinamerica, the next reggaeton star and subgenre could come from korea for all I know.

Personally I'd love if there was some growth in the lyrics section, the underground scene is more involved in pointing out socioeconomic issues and I don't think since Calle 13 there has been a mainstream reggaeton act with lyrics as thought inducing and confrontational as them.

Yeah, very cool, an established genre that didn’t originate in North America or Europe manages to get a foothold in the US/UK charts like it has in large parts of the rest of the world, and now it’s the “shittest trend” in pop music since “Happy”.

Is there a thread for worst thread titles? Feels like I time-travelled to 2001 ILM.

I listened to pop radio for the first time in awhile the other day, and it seems the shit trend is dudes with little boy voices emoting over acoustic guitars.

this always happens in Mourinho's third season

xps I think it's less a problem with reggaeton as a genre (which is generally decent music) and more how so many mainstream popstars are doing a very bland imitation of it, not because they're inspired by it, more that it's just what one does of one is a popstar right now

Little Mix having a reggaeton single a wee while back just seemed like inauthentic and off-brand bandwagon-chasing, I'm all for non-English music to be internationally huge but there's an insincerity to the moves made by a lot of popstars when they pivot to on-trend sounds and styles

crazy frog was good

utterly baffling to me to criticize entire genres of music for not "developing" enough or whatever - like every form of music must constantly be being transformed into some *other* form of music or it isn't valid - I just don't relate to music in that way.

while plenty of pop music today is mediocre as it always has been, i'm not sure there are any pop trends i'm actually annoyed by lately beyond some of the bizarre vocal affectations that have clearly taken a strong hold

Oh noes, “insincerity” in pop music(??)

boxedjoy's nailed it really. it might be UK perspective here. The only reggaeton most people know are Gasolina, the Bieber version of Despacito, Little Mix and maybe a couple of other, washier, Despacito soundalikes that got covered on the 'Latin' edition of X Factor

Speaking of which, Olatunji, the star of afrosoca, a modern day legend in Trinidad, is now a contestant on X Factor. Fair play that he's bringing soca music to mainstream audiences, but so far they've had him performing a crappy electro-swing crossover tune and a cover of Mambo No 5. It's about as starchy and primetime as they could possibly make it.

But yes, that's pop TV for you of course, what do I expect?

Yes, artists will jump on bandwagons, and the Little Mix track is a good example of this. “Taki Taki” is a very bad example though. That beat is legit good, Ozuna is in his element, and both Cardi B (who has dueted with Ozuna before, in Spanish!) and Selena Gomez, with their Hispanic/Latin roots, are not exactly clueless participants.

Of course it’s also a “cynical” pop move, people want to have hits. And DJ Snake has built his career on other people’s work (he recently released Niniola’s African megahit “Maradona” basically unchanged under his own name). Like I said when I posted “Taki Taki” on the Rolling Pop thread, I don’t know where he got this beat from (for all I know, he might have bought it from Afro Boys, the Dutch production team that produced Nicky Jam & J Balvin’s smash “X” from earlier this year - proving Moka’s point about how far reggaeton has branched out internationally), but he absolutely nailed it. Describing it as “very bland” or “watered-down” seems spectacularly off the mark.

Anyway, I’m going back to rinsing Lalo Ebratt’s “Mocca” - both versions!

okay Taki Taki wasn't a good example to use. you can hardly call it watered down

"insincerity" is probably not the right word for me to use - I'm not sure what is though. Pop is performance and doesn't have to be authentic to be good. Perhaps a better term is "unconvincing" - in the Little Mix example, they hadn't really done anything massively similar before or since (as far as I know, at least) and it didn't seem a natural or obvious step for them, but it also didn't seem like an astonishing leap of skill and talent and imagination. It literally just sounded like and felt like someone in an office saying "reggaeton is big, maybe we can get the girls involved in that"

You can make a cynical cash-in and it still be really good, but if it isn't up to standard then it just seems so hollow and forced. In pop, nobody wants to see the cogs in the machinery at work without being awed.

yeah Cardi has stated she listens to mostly spanish music and not rap, and that she has previously aimed to do a spanish version of bodak yellow (name of song escapes me, but not taki taki)

Britishers would recall Pixie Lott, who started out in the Duffy/Winehouse mould of vaguely retro pop, then following up her debut album with really uninspired and cheap-sounding EDM-pop about dancing in clubs. Not that she was ever a great popstar but something like "All About Tonight" or "Kiss The Stars" had a real air of will-this-do desperate cynicism. And then not too long ago she was dancing awkwardly on Saturday morning shows with grime rappers.

The question is maybe not around the trends themselves, but the popstars who pursue them and fail. Because when they succeed, it doesnt feel like a trend being chased.

xps So the actual “shit trend” in pop music right now is Little Mix doing a bit of reggaeton and the UK not getting Latin music? Lock thread, I guess.

...or maybe we could rename it to “Some pop music is actually shit, and other eye-openers”.

that last comment makes me think of nelly furtado, whose arguably trend-hopping self-reinvention for loose ended up being one of the biggest things of that year and totally blotted out most people's memories of her previous efforts at making it big. so she basically just seemed like a major new hitmaker, not someone following a trend. but there must be other people who tried to leap into cutting-edge club music (even if they couldn't get timbaland) who fell flat on their faces and were seen as hapless trend-followers.

i think thinking in terms of a "shit trend" sort of dooms the discussion if we really are interested in trends and the decisions made on adapting to them/jumping on them/starting them/whatever. and if we're just listing trends we thought of as shitty it's pretty well-trodden ground. maybe a middle ground would be, what causes trends to get viewed as shitty ones rather than good ones? obviously if you don't like nu-metal you think of nu-metal as a shitty trend but are there meta-features? like, for example, a trend is more likely to end up being viewed by some as shitty if it involves one or two really obvious easily copyable elements like the OHHHH vocals or the sharp female "hey!" of recent years... or looking back, grocery-bag rhymes circa 2011, fake telephone filter and gratuitous turntable in '99, pixies/nirvana loud-soft dynamics in '93, or booming gated drums in the late 80s..... if audiences really are eating it up for a year or two, then it's easy to see how people throw those features into otherwise not-that-great-songs and achieve hits that a short time later feel a bit hollow and signal a trend decline.

er "that last comment" is re: "Because when they succeed, it doesnt feel like a trend being chased."

I don’t get Moka singling out Rock when all mainstream is shit

https://www.citywesthousingtrust.org.uk/thumbs/cms/attachments/event/contents/5/8/a/58a38722-e105-4f44-8722-cae6b9553b70/bingo.png/articleView/bingo.png

So much of our perceptions of this kind of stuff is just the application of a readyformed narrative combined with hindsight bias: when Nelly F embraced pop she succeeded commercially, so it was all bold reinvention; when Jewel tried the same thing earlier she failed commercially so it was all desperate pandering.

it cannot be stated enough how deeply ingrained reggaeton has become globally! for example in Balkan pop it has been a staple for so many years that at this point it's like autotune - not something you do to stand out but rather to blend in, to sound "normal", natural even... it's so omnipresent in Balkan pop that when, say, Croatian peeps prone to grumbling about "shit trends" hear a reggaeton beat - they're just as likely to think of it as "that Serbian folk beat"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g15XXPikC4g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUOcNI8RBGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKJEKww8zqk

xxpost: Come on not all mainstream is shit. I singled out Rock because Rockists tend to think their genre of choice is better than everything else out there when it clearly isn't the case. Those rock charts on billboard are horrifying to me. I don't see hip hop or pop or reggaeton or country or r&b audiences ashamed or misrepresented by their biggest selling artists. House/Techno could fall for that trap but they are genres which don't really exist in the US/UK charts. Who else is left besides rock to feel shame for their mainstream acts? Jazz? I don't know.

lol, you talk as if "rock fan" is some identity group

Any fan of X who think the best examples of it are routinely also the most popular is...a real puzzler.

House, after a few fashions, has done pretty well in the UK charts throughout this decade though fwiw.

That’s not what I’m saying?

Just saying that of all the genres in the charts rock is the only one that feels really misrepresented, not that the acts in the other charts are necessarily the best. I don’t see noone with the level of respect as say Kendrick Lamar for hip hop or Ariana Grande for pop in the rock charts. The rock chart is indefensible compared to the others imho is what I’m saying.

What's to "defend"? It's an airplay chart. People who listen to stations in the mainstream rock format must like those songs, or they wouldn't be played so heavily.

I do believe rock is less popular than the other mainstream genres and modern rock radio prescense is probably diminishing. I hate them all though. I probably hate mainstream pop and r’n’b more than modern rock because I’m much more aware of its presence.

Dance music enthusiasts universally hate the stuff that charts, all the way back to disco. Ask a panel of bonafide dance music experts to draw a 100 best dance tracks ever you’ll get stuff like Basic Channel and Juan Atkins, it won’t include anything close to 2 Unlimited, Scooter, Boney M, Modern Talking, Eiffel 65 or Pendulum. Few jazz fans rep for Engelbert Humperdinck and Michael Buble either.

Any fan of X who think the best examples of it are routinely also the most popular is... a real puzzler

I always think r&b - specifcally, r&b designed for club purposes of dancing and drinking - is at its best when it's at its most popular. Peak-era Timbaland stuff (ie pre Danja) was weird and jittery and thrilling for it and it was also the sound of so many hits at the turn of the millenium by both him and his imitators. If the idea is to bring the funk and groove that makes your body move in interesting ways then it makes sense that the stuff that is most fun to dance to is the stuff that's also the most rhythmically unconventional.

the stuff that is most fun to dance to is the stuff that's also the most rhythmically unconventional.

this is just demonstrably untrue over the history of dance music

140 bpm trance is so joyless in a club though? I love the 4/4 stomp of house and techno as much as I love 2-step garage and uk funky but there's always stuff going on in the grooves (and between the grooves lol) that's markedly different to eg EDM/trance pop

I mean I also wouldn't want to dance to Autechre in a club I guess, so you are right in a sense

but there's a lot of really boring, earnest, "straight" r&b out there that just feels motionlessly unsexy in a club context

Familiarity breeds contempt, when it arrived around 92/93, 140bpm trance was a revolution that swept away the stale chicago-style house and gimmicky cartoon-rave, after ten years it felt kinda stale and dropped back underground and now after 25 years it’s clearly not ready for a revival yet.

Guetta/Swedish House Mafia/Aviici style “EDM” once was fresh too, hard to believe now.

the history of dance music going back to the dawn of recording technology (and probably well before then) is one of passing manias for different rhythms. A rhythm becomes popular (presumably because ppl enjoy dancing to it), it is quickly copied and replicated into infinity until ppl get tired of it and it gets superceded by a new rhythm. rinse and repeat.

Tell me with a straight face this isn’t the most depressive billboard list of the decade:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Mainstream_Rock_number-one_songs_of_the_2010s

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, October 15, 2018 3:23 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

“Mainstream” Rock? I’ve never heard of a single one of those songs.

a rhythm being complex doesn't really figure into it. and a rhythm is only "unconventional" until it becomes the new flavor of the year, and then it gets considered conventional v quickly.

xp

xp - Do you listen to any of these stations?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mainstream_rock_radio_stations_in_the_United_States

No.

"... it's the children who are wrong."

Lyrics about texts, airplane mode, left on read, etc...

moka otm, those rock charts suck ass

October 8 "Not Again" Staind

do feel like "trends" or "rhythms" would be more useful terms for understanding contemporary music than "genre", which seems v old school

doctor casino otm as always that "shit trends" (or "shit rhythms") kind of ruin the discussion

Fwiw, Billboard's Mainstream Rock Chart is based on the airplay of a specific radio format (active rock), as that Wikipedia article states. It's not necessarily even a list of the most popular or heavily played songs that are broadly classified as 'rock'. The Hot Rock Songs chart at least includes other rock radio formats, not that it would necessarily make anyone here feel any better.

Can't vouch for the reliability of the Wikipedia link btw. Here's the chart: https://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs

I knew that It's Been a While since Staind were on the charts, but I'm surprised to see that they were there as recently as 2011.

"Rats" r0x0r btw.

Funny that "Not Again" actually did have two spells on the top spot. Or was that the point?

“Mainstream” Rock? I’ve never heard of a single one of those songs.

― Mr. Snrub, Monday, October 15, 2018 10:37 PM (yesterday)

This really is like the platonic ideal of a Snrub post.

I read through almost every name on that list saying "bloody hell, are they still going?" I guess there will always be bros in big shorts.

I see now that Moka already posted the Hot Rock list. Hadn't slept much.

Tbh, if I put on commercial terrestrial radio in the van, it is as likely to be mainstream rock/active rock as anything else these days since there are usually no surprises on classic rock and the 'alternative rock' station just doesn't rock most of the time. (Radio 2 usually puts me to sleep if they're not playing classical. Pop, AC, and country radio usually turn me off way faster and I can hear the first two anywhere else anyway.) I almost always put on a CD or campus radio, though.

I am a little intrigued by both the sorts of 'canons' these stations carve out of rock history and the ways they seem to like to define themselves in opposition to other formats. Afaict, our active rock station (The Rebel) plays the kind of stuff you see on that list + the heavier end of 90s alternative rock (e.g. Soundgarden and Alice Chains, sometimes NIN, but not Radiohead or Smashing Pumpkins, maybe Green Day or Nirvana, RATM right now) + some Metallica/Megadeth + 80s 'heavy metal' (Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest) + Zeppelin and Sabbath but not much other music from before the 80s. They run station ID ads with slogans like "The only 'f word' around here is 'Foreigner' (with a brief clip of 'I Want to Know What Love Is')" and "the only 's word' around here is 'Styx'" (with a clip of "Come Sail Away") that rely on both the listener's recognition of those bands and songs and their desire to define themselves in opposition to them + their identification of those songs with the classic rock station, whose playlist otherwise overlaps with portions of the Rebel's. Afaict, the 'alternative' station plays a lot of what you see on the Hot Rock Songs chart, a lot of what is probably on the triple-A chart (e.g. Arcade Fire, Florence & the Machine), the 90s alternative rock that is not covered by the Rebel (although they agree on Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and pop-punk), and 80s 'modern rock'. I've heard them play Jethro Tull because of their influence on Mumford & Sons and I've heard ELO on the Toronto 'indie' station. They used to run commercials declaring themselves a "Miley-free zone", a "Bieber-free zone", and a "Nickelback-free zone". I think Greta Van Fleet might get play on all three stations. It seems a bit like the 90s alternative/modern rock format split itself into two distinct formats. (Iirc, we had a single modern rock station in the late 90s/early 00s that played the Smiths and Cure alongside RATM and nu-metal.)

Ha, they just went to "When the Curtain Falls", of course.

(I drive a LOT these days.)

Mediabase has also recently changed its breakdown (if you’re into the nitty-gritty of radio formats): http://www.insideradio.com/free/mainstream-rock-gets-rolled-away-by-mediabase/article_b3b245a4-9358-11e5-a8f4-670625f5ac53.html

Ah, thanks.

I had wondered what the difference was.

I'm a bit confused about why this has become a 'pop vs rock' thread, or even an 'in defense of pop' thread, or even in some cases an 'all pop is good even the shit stuff wildcard' thread...

With respect dude the original post was hardly your finest hour and it was so ill-defined it could have gone pretty much anywhere. It was either going to end up here or with people calling each other racist.

In terms of the biggest gap between a sound's "credible" beginnings and the awfulness that came afterwards, I think Bossa Nova might be notable. Or dubstep, but with the qualifier that the early good stuff consists strictly of Horsepower Productions and literally everything afterwards was of the Shit Trend

It was either going to end up here or with people calling each other racist. <--- new board description

The “Shit Threads” in ILM forum right now

dude the original post was hardly your finest hour

at least it drew my attention to that vine of the guy doing the indie girl voice and now I can't stop saying 'We have bananies and avocadies' to myself

I enjoyed this in-depth linguistic analysis of "indie girl voice"

https://www.acelinguist.com/2018/10/dialect-dissection-indie-girl-voice.html

No mention of Karen Dalton is odd

I had been genuinely confused by that diphthong in "Good for You".

Sometimes I use the phrase "american idol voice" when discussing what I don't like

Surely Britney is the ground zero for this phenomenon, oh baybay baybay?

This vocal trends makes me “??” as well (if we’re talking about the same thing), but I’m hesitant to come down too hard on it for obvious reasons. Maybe if it were an “indie dude voice”...

Yeah, idk what this has to do with 'indie', really. The linguist actually has a separate article about "babay" vowels!

Here; haven't finished it yet: https://www.acelinguist.com/2017/05/oh-babih-babay-how-one-vowel-one.html

I think it's pronounced 'inday'.

Think the vine was originally posted on this thread in connection to the "passenger voice" which I consider to be a different, much worse thing.

Aka"Ellie Goulding ballad voice"

Ooh ooh can we do the Sting / Elvis Costello swallowed-voice?

Parts of Iggy's 'Passenger' fall under the "Joy Division voice" which I generally dislike (Iggy is okay I guess). I never knew an indie band called Passenger

that's a hilarious article

Is there a term for the Rag'n'Bone Man objectively the second worst noise in the world voice?

The multi-voice 'oh-oh-OHH-oh oh-oh-OHH-oh's or variations of it filling in the gaps between the lyrics in choruses. Imagine Dragons, Arcade Fire, all that shit. It will not go away.

― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre)

This is something I had mentioned to my millennial sister when I brought up that a lot of music sounds the same. When she recalled that conversation, last November, I took a different stance by admitting that there are some cases of less than modern songs with 'oh-oh-ohs' that I enjoy. I regret admitting that because it diminishes the fact that 'ohs' are an ever prevalent, annoying trend.

Anyways, I watched this video today and the narrator mentions a variation dubbed the Millennial Whoop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII

Overall this video presents a pretty accurate explanation on why popular modern music is awful. For someone presenting a negative opinion (although presented as fact) it is surprising that this video has a 93% like ratio on a site used largely by younger people. He also seems to believe there is tons of musical brainwashing due to the mere-exposure effect - although he doesn't say how much.

What led me here was googling "why do I dislike modern music"; maybe you would too if you couln't name a single new artist that you like from the past decade. Anyhow, many responses were "people grew up on and formed their musical opinions based on something different" (this answer is actually pretty interesting when you get into details about why certain music styles, content, and feelings embodied certain eras) and also "you are closed-minded" or "you haven't heard any good non-mainstream stuff". When I check out some of the recommended underground or indie music it's always sounds bad or mehhhh. Maybe if I keep trying I'll eventually find something I like -- or maybe I am closed-minded 🤔. I suppose that is possible but I feel like that I can point out several good reasons why each song I try is boring or bad. I guess I won't know until I write those reasons down and analyze them while trying time and time again to like something new from the past decade.

you couln't name a single new artist that you like from the past decade

What led me here was googling "why do I dislike modern music"

new board description

though I would like to see the reasons why Kendrick Lamar songs are bad or boring written down and analyzed

you're gonna get primaried with that attitude

we already have a flappy bird this just seems excessive

xpost lol I mean he either dislikes Kendrick or has never heard him, which would mean he's not trying all that hard

Rather than getting analytical about why what you don't like sucks, why not analyze why what you *do* like is awesome, and use that as a guide to finding new stuff?

and he said oooh eeee oohhh ahh ahh
ting tang
walla walla bing bang

xpppppp to Arms Length,
Actually now that I think about it I did really like the songs 'Genesis' by Grimes in 2012, 'Play' by iamamiwhoami in 2012, and 'Helena Beat' by Foster the People in 2011 - but all their other songs that I've heard are mostly variations of meh and in some cases bad imo. Likewise, there might be a couple other "new" artists that I'm forgetting about who had just 1 song I really liked.

I thought about starting a thread where try to rationally explain why I don't like stuff people recommend to me; but even if its for shits and giggles I'm pretty sure some ILXors rather I keep opinions to myself.

xp to zchrys,
I do try to use rym and other people's playlists to better guide me to new music but at this point all my good discoveries are dated

I thought about starting a thread where try to rationally explain why I don't like stuff people recommend to me

would not read

anti-shits and giggles r u?

oh, you use rym! great! ok, you are allowed to think modern music sucks but first you have to listen to every record on this list and agree that it is bad

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/rushomancy/pathological-listening/

note that you are allowed to like the archival releases on the bottom of page 4 and the top of page 5.

That video is garbage btw.

That video has over 7 million views and 93% like ratio.

Rushomancy, if you start a thread for me and recommend some songs I'll give you some cliff note opinions

Keep in mind he only discusses mainstream music

^ video guy. not rushomancy as far as I know

That video has over 7 million views and 93% like ratio.

And your point is?

that was my point

nearly every youtube video that hasn't been like hate-brigaded has that sort of like ratio lol

skimming the video this is just rockist nonsense intended to reinforce the prejudices of people who already don't like modern pop with claims like "the vast majority of pop music today is built using the exact same combination of keyboard, drum machine, sampler and computer software. this sucks the creativity and originality out of music."

let's not lose the main point though...most music does suck

I dunno, ask ufo and Tom D. is modern mainstream pop music sucks

I saw a 13 minute video on youtube yesterday where some teenagers walked around with canes, pretended to be blind, fell in the street and wailed in terrible Adam Sandler voices and it had a 98% like ratio

ask Neanderthal too

It probably does but not as much as that shitty video.

deflection?

That vid is about as good as the one by the guy who claims Katy Perry is really adult Jon-Benet Ramsey

It's a bad presentation of data with awkward metaphors, cherry picking, strawman arguments & other cliche rockist sentiments.

Doesn't mean you can't have your opinion of mainstream music. Bad video though.

that "millennial whoop" thing was not coined by the video, in its (incredibly slight) defense; that said the thinkpiece it came from is equally bad

https://thepatterning.com/2016/08/20/the-millennial-whoop-a-glorious-obsession-with-the-melodic-alternation-between-the-fifth-and-the-third/

(xp) Yes, I am a long way from being a fan of mainstream pop music fwiw!

I really don't care about this video.

What do you all thinks makes modern mainstream pop music different from before?

I'm older.

i don't think mainstream pop is in a particularly exciting place at the moment but it's not categorically bad or anything, there's still plenty of mainstream music i've loved this year

Rushomancy, if you start a thread for me and recommend some songs I'll give you some cliff note opinions

― (V) (;,,;) (V) (FlopsyDuck)

no, i'm not going to spoon-feed you.

i have no reason to believe that you're anything other than one of the many reactionary whiners such as one finds in great quantity on the internet. put in some good-faith effort and maybe people will be more inclined to engage with you in good faith. on the other hand, if you're looking for someone to drag you, kicking and screaming, into 2019, well, i suspect you will have a difficult time of it.

One difference is that you're thinking about all of modern mainstream music, and only the stuff from before that people still remember.

What are the characteristics of modern mainstream music that make it different?

I saw a 13 minute video on youtube yesterday where some teenagers walked around with canes, pretended to be blind, fell in the street and wailed in terrible Adam Sandler voices and it had a 98% like ratio

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal)

it would be 99% if they had OWNED some SJWs along the way

What are the characteristics of modern mainstream music that make it different?

― (V) (;,,;) (V) (FlopsyDuck)

passover isn't for another three and a half months flopsyduck wait your turn

I know why we are sensitive about generalizing people but if we're too sensitive to generalize modern mainstream pop music by providing characteristics of how it differs from the past... and then admitting that that could be a possibility of why it sucks as opposed to "I'm close-minded", well we might as well start having our weekly faps while wearing kid gloves.

I don't know man. You're not making a lot of sense. You claim that you haven't heard any artists you like from the past decade (except for 3 songs) including underground and indie stuff, but then keep asking why "mainstream pop" is worse now. Worse than when? 1967? 2008?

The last Alice in Chains album is better than you might expect.

I don't even listen to pop and I have new pop artist trax in my Spotify

What led me here was googling "why do I dislike modern music"

new board description

What are the characteristics of modern mainstream music that make it different?

― (V) (;,,;) (V) (FlopsyDuck)

passover isn't for another three and a half months flopsyduck wait your turn

no, i'm not going to spoon-feed you.

i have no reason to believe that you're anything other than one of the many reactionary whiners such as one finds in great quantity on the internet. put in some good-faith effort and maybe people will be more inclined to engage with you in good faith. on the other hand, if you're looking for someone to drag you, kicking and screaming, into 2019, well, i suspect you will have a difficult time of it.

― errang (rushomancy) Thursday, January 3, 2019 6:12 PM

Your opinion is noted. I don't have the slightest idea how reviewing someone's top tracks, if they are interested in me doing so, equates to looking for someone to drag me kicking and screaming into 2019. I thought it would be a fun inner-discovery activity for me and I bet reviewing music could be kind of fun. However, I didn't think it would be as fun for the people giving me links and that's why I didn't bother starting a new thread.

As for the "I'm not going to spoon-feed you" comment, I literally thought you might be interested in my review after you posted your rym profile for me to check out. p.s. I came across your moniker on rym a couple months ago.

I don't know man. You're not making a lot of sense. You claim that you haven't heard any artists you like from the past decade (except for 3 songs) including underground and indie stuff, but then keep asking why "mainstream pop" is worse now. Worse than when? 1967? 2008?

― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Thursday, January 3, 2019 6:34 PM

I was only referencing mainstream stuff because of the video that I posted. But I seriously can't name any new artist (underground/indie/mainstream/whatever) from the last decade that I would want to own their album. But yes, the 2000's are largely similar to the 2010's and I have very little favs from that era as well. I don't mention old groups (starting in the 60's-90's) because many of them did put out albums I like in the 00's and 10's. Also I could probably find a all around good ambient or instrumental album from the 10's if I wanted to.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last Alice in Chains album is better than you might expect.

― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Thursday, January 3, 2019 6:36 PM
I should listen to the Alice in Chains. Thanks for the recommendation, I keep forgetting about that one.

is flopsyduck the latest iteration of raccoontanuki? anyway that video is evidently awful but this response to it that i saw a while ago was interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8

flopsylorax

Thought this thread was about Lil Wayne

that takedown video is good but way more effort than the original really deserved at all

but lol i didn't get to the part where he claims that max martin and dr luke are responsible for "the vast majority of chart-topping hits in the past two decades" and "behind virtually every single band that is played on the radio today"

is there a name for the guy's expression in the video above, one that conveys the smugness

^the “Joel McHale”

god i’m now imagining a future where max martin co-writes for post malone... brr

It's absolutely true that there is tons of cherry-picking, exaggerations and spin in that original video (I haven't watched the response). But the sentiment is also true that there is more of a repeated generic sound (copycats should at least vary what they copy) and less creativity, and more people whom can't play instruments. The crappy video's statement that there is generally (in today's modern hit parade) smaller volume variance between instruments and shorter songs with more/earlier hooks might be true.

But the sentiment is also true that there is more of a repeated generic sound (copycats should at least vary what they copy) and less creativity, and more people whom can't play instruments.

citation needed

God I don't know if I can get through that response video. Over analyzing something that bugs you and and putting in several hours to create a response can't be healthy.

(I'm reminded of Quincy Jones calling the Beatles "the worst musicians in the world... no-playing motherfuckers")

Or maybe it is therapeutic to over-analyze what bugs you? Fuck. I feel like lingering on something that bugs you can't be healthy and yet ultimately all the work you put into making a response can lead to a therapeutic feeling. The internet is dumb.

The internet also smells bad and is ugly.

overreach and misguidedness of that OG video aside, this train of thought is especially wild to me considering that the last few years have shown a HUGE shift away from the more centrist model of pop music. even the crotchety strawman frameworks people have lobbed against chart music for the past twenty or so years of pop have become strained and outdated.

I don't know if has changed that much? It still sounds terrible to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgTVrcRUMig

"well that's easily fixed"

sooo, she kills herself?

What's the idea behind this thread exactly ? Theorizing your yells ?

(I'm reminded of Quincy Jones calling the Beatles "the worst musicians in the world... no-playing motherfuckers")

I've known a couple of classical or jazz guys who hold a similar low opinion of the Beatles' musicianship, even if they give them credit as composers/songwriters. Still seems nuts to me tbh.

What's the idea behind this thread exactly ? Theorizing your yells ?

― Nabozo, Friday, January 4, 2019 11:50 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you called

Flopsy, If you can bear to watch to the end of the response video you'll see that the reason it's needed is that the original video poster has more than 2 million subscribers, so it is a bit important if he is spreading bullshit.

I think to answer your original question you really need to ask yourself.

I figured it out. Why I don't like modern music. (you can't see it but I had an epiphany).

Modern music has abandoned my idea of cool by distancing itself from the past. There is a newer kind of cool, but until I see it and embrace it, most all of new stuff will sound like shit.

I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded.

If only 'millennial cool' could make itself apparent to me. I don't know how I'm supposed to lift the veil when what is cool today seems like a direct contradiction to what I believe is cool.

To theorize:
A=old cool & !A=new cool

xp

"the reason (the response video) is needed"

but is it though?

I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded I have finally opened up to the possibility that I'm close-minded

But have you opened up to the possibility that you are dick because you harbor a hatred of yourself?

Ugh I want those 10 minutes of my life back, he argues that modern pop music places the hook earlier in the song due to short attention spans fueled by ipods yet he defends 60’s pop!? The most popular Beatles songs all have their hooks in the first 20/30 seconds of the songs or in the intro. This has nothing to do with pleasuring the milennials ffs.

Did pop had better lyrics in the 60’s than pop from this decade? I can cherrypick mind numbing stupid lyrics from huge hits of any decade and make that argument.

The only point that may have some foundation is the “timbre” one, instead of using studios with actual instruments technology allows the trend of creating music from your laptop with synths and samples and those who do use instruments tend to be more lo-fi than in previous decades. That’s not a tech limitation though, maybe an economic one... established mainstream acts may still get the full thing and it sounds better than anything from previous decades regardless of your opinion on its content.

I've known a couple of classical or jazz guys who hold a similar low opinion of the Beatles' musicianship, even if they give them credit as composers/songwriters. Still seems nuts to me tbh.

I'm sure there's plenty who don't give them credit as composers/songwriters either.

If the guy just said "look, there's a lot of commercial music that is designed in the same way a corporation designs a mass market snack food" I would agree. But that's about it.

I've known a couple of classical or jazz guys who hold a similar low opinion of the Beatles' musicianship, even if they give them credit as composers/songwriters. Still seems nuts to me tbh.

Isn't this a case of guys for whom chops are an end in themselves vs. guys who are only interested in acquiring the chops necessary to convey their songwriting ideas?

I think it’s possible to think the Beatles didn’t have great chops and not fetishize chops as an end unto themselves although you are probably missing the point of the Beatles

This is a terribly conceived thread

Yeah, these guys (and the two I have in mind are both musicians and were both my colleagues) don't just see chops as an end unto themselves. I'm not talking about shredders. The Beatles' chops never struck me as lacking, though. xp

There's probably a big racial factor in Quincy's opinion, like how aggravating would it be to have the composing and arranging skills he has (and the session jazz guys he was down with) and then see the Beatles endlessly praised as the boy geniuses that somehow made pop music "sophisticated" in 1967 when they dropped acid

all the beatles had chops, but only paul's bass chops rivaled any of the guys that quincy might've worked with tho.

This is a terribly conceived thread

all the beatles had chops, but only paul's bass chops rivaled any of the guys that quincy might've worked with tho.

― bros before HOOS (voodoo chili), Friday, 4 January 2019 21:24 (three minutes ago) Permalink

Exactly. Real players. Like Stephen Stills.

"I also remember Stephen buying a Precision bass for Paul McCartney and telling him it was time to start playing a ‘real’ instrument and not his old Höfner."-Graham Nash

That’s what makes it so compelling.

You wish

fwiw I only mentioned the Quincy Jones bit because of the "no one knows how to play instruments" thing

I mean I guess people could be posting here not because they feel compelled to but because their bodies have been hijacked by our government through computer chips that.... this sentence is too shitty to even finish

Grimes, "We Appreciate Power" (2018)

found a piece of confetti on my foot and my genuine, initial reaction was “oh wow, someone must’ve installed this chip in me while i was asleep last night”. happy new year !

— Ariana Grande (@ArianaGrande) January 1, 2019

Stephen Stills invented jazz and wearing football jerseys

Pop singles were fire in 2018.
Radio was not fire.

Okay this was like 600 points ago, and feel free to continue your discussion uninterrupted by my comment on it, but was someone in here really predicting that the replacement for Imagine Dragons sorta-rock as the “shit trend” on pop radio would be a Kpop crossover
Like, putting aside the question of how those two even map onto each other (or whether the former is primarily of annoyance to “old people” when the better part of this thread has now been spent trying to talk a RYM user down from the ledge of that “millennial whoop” video), I would gladly make that trade right this second if it were up to me

God I don't know if I can get through that response video. Over analyzing something that bugs you and and putting in several hours to create a response can't be healthy.

― (V) (;,,;) (V) (FlopsyDuck)

you know what i like most about you, flopsyduck? your apparently complete and total obliviousness to irony

if you read on you will see that I saw the irony and flipped that post on its head

But i do like to feel liked every once in a while