POLLercoaster Ride - ILM Artist Poll #94 - Belle and Sebastian - Discussion/Campaigning Thread

http://i65.tinypic.com/ne886b.jpg

I suggested this yesterday and much enthusiasm was observed. No-one vetoed the idea, and no other poll has been proposed for a little while, so I guess this shall be #94! Thanks for the thread title, kornrulez6969!

(i) TOP 30 TRACKS

The B&S discography now seems large enough (upwards of 170 tracks) to warrant a ballot of 30 selections. I'll accept any track by B&S or any side projects (God Help the Girl, Gentle Waves, Looper, etc) and lists <30, if preferred.

Here's a quickly assembled list of known B&S tracks, for starters:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1djccwNwnBjzQ3ESbclZF4-GiFtdIu7jqBxCmtcQmydg/edit?usp=sharing

I propose a fairly familiar scoring regime:

40,36,33,30,28,26,25,24,23,22,21,20,19,18,17,16,15,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2.

Unranked ballots of 30 are also fine -- 17 points allocated to each item.

(ii) TOP 5 ALBUMS

Any of the regular studio albums or compilations are acceptable. I'll keep the scoring simple here: 5,4,3,2,1.

(iii) TOP 5 EPs

B&S have keen on the EP format at various points in the career, so an optional exercise to assess their relative merits might also be amusing. I'll keep the definition fairly broad: any of those releases containing 3-5 tracks. Scoring as at (ii).

Ballots to vaticanroulette AT gmail DOT com, preferably with username and helpful B&S-related subject line. :)

Deadline: let's aim for provisional deadline of 10th December with scope for extension if required. I'll attempt brisk turnaround after that, being mindful of encroaching festive/EOY distractions, etc.

very excited for this, I haven't really listened to them much in years (Jens Lekman has been my go-to for that sort of indie pop recently) but revisited their first two today in anticipation for this and they're still total classics

I need such an incentive to finally absorb some of the most recent stuff myself, tbh!

oh fuck

Spotted three tracks missing from the list - early demos 'London Has Let Me Down' 'Hurley's Having Dreams' and 'Pocketbook Angel' (not that I want to vote for any of them, but just for the sake of completeness / general pedantry)

I'll be stanning for some of the late stuff for sure. tbh most of their best material is DCW and onwards imho

I'm all for pendantry, CAAL! Shall add.

What about the Avalanches remix of “I’m a Cuckoo” (the one with the yodeling)? Does that just fall under the regular vote tor “I’m a Cuckoo”?

the Avalanches remix of I'm A Cuckoo is the greatest

As it happens, on Friday I already listed which albums you need.

That Avalanches reworking is quite remarkable, but I'm inclined to add all variants to the one 'pile' for tallying purposes. Happy to record details of cited versions though.

Just noticed that 3.. 6.. 9 Seconds of Light is also missing.

Thanks! Personal top 5 contenders are on that, fercrissakes!

What do people reckon about PTBBOTS / Songs for Children? One song or two?

first draft of ballot: 47 tracks

Great thread title!

Having a They Might Be Giants poll followed by a Belle and Sebastian poll is basically This Is Your Life for me.

I'm one of those who's kind of fallen off the bus in recent years, off to relisten to the newer records I know less well...

here for this

I am kinda shocked at the enthusiasm here tbh. Things done changed on ILM. I mean, there's some serious vitriol on older threads from Ned, Doc C, Dan Perry, many other longtime posters:

Search And Destroy: Belle And Sebastian
Belle and Sebastian: CorD??
fuck belle & sebastian?
when, exactly, did belle & sebastian start sucking?

anyway I always thought they were great up through Fold Your Hands, which is abysmal, and I haven't heard a note since.

dear catastrophe waitress is as good as any of the classics

also idk a lot can change in seventeen years lol

what are you talking about, I am exactly the same

anyway I always thought they were great up through Fold Your Hands, which is abysmal, and I haven't heard a note since.

You're missing out on some fantastic music.

DCW was such a seismic shock to me that it took a few months for me to say, "Okay, this might be their best."

All those old threads are well into the period where lots of people were ready to be bored with Belle and Sebastian. If there were a 1998 thread it would be barely alloyed fankidism.

yeah i almost said something similar

love that there's a side poll for best EPs--B&S is the band that taught me what an EP was lol

Not listened to the back end of Tigermilk for so long. We Rule the School just made me bawl. (I'm sick; I'm never sick - Brad was right: they're perfect.)

And, not seen it mentioned yet, but Seymour Stein will be top 5 for me.

same, most likely.

Belle and Sebastian - The Model >>>>> Kraftwerk - The Model

I’m getting sick rn so this works out perfectly. I’ll probably have “I Know Where the Summer Goes” on my ballot, lovely song.

Will be voting in this, which gives me a cause to finally acknowledge my most glaring blind spot: Dear Catastrophe Waitress. I can sort of understand how I missed it: Fold Your Hands... let me down when it came out, and I skipped right over it (ditto the Solondz soundtrack they did, though that is obviously less essential). Less understandable is that I never went back to it, as The Life Pursuit floored me when it came out, and is still my fave B&S album. I’ve heard “Step into My Office Baby” and the Mike Piazza song, but the rest of the album will be new to me.

dangit, i want to get sick. i'm missing out

tbh a few songs on DCW annoy me pretty strongly, though the highs are incredible

Roy Walker is a bit of a stinker.

I assume "Push Barman..." does not count as an album?

XP: I never need to hear *ducks* "Step Into My Office, Baby" ever again, but I distinctly recall being all "YES! Exactly the right move!" upon hearing previews of "Stay Loose" and "I'm a Cuckoo" after the dead end of Fold Your Hands....

And Push Barman is fine for the albums poll, as far as I'm concerned. Likewise Third Eye Centre and the BBC thingy.

i think it'd be a lot of fun to listen to this band chronologically so i'm gonna give that a shot while assembling my ballot

a few years ago i made a playlist of all my favorite b&s songs and i think it flows really well for being 50 songs long https://open.spotify.com/user/unbornwhiskey/playlist/4EvRvOmaS4T7qjh6kEkJjI?si=_cwi_GFdRRS-SE82nZSgFA

XP: I never need to hear *ducks* "Step Into My Office, Baby"

Yes. I'm going back to Dear Catastrophe Waitress for the first time in years and it's way better than I remember, after the first two songs which will not be on my ballot.

fair warning, im gonna vote for their cover of The Boys Are Back in Town as my #1

ok i won't, but it certainly might make my top 30

I've never heard that but I feel like I can imagine exactly what it sounds like (and it rules?)

i'm halfway through tigermilk and this is gonna be a tough poll

you guys are nuts, dear catastrophe waitress starts strong stays strong

i guess that's why we do the poll!

first run-through of my ballot has 8 songs from sinister on it...

First run through is 34 songs and nothing post DCW. I need to do some listening (and could do with some recommendations...).

Yeah I both a) want to give a fair listen to post-DCW material and b) don't really know how to cut down DCW and before to 30 songs...

I Want the World to Stop from Write About Love and Play For Today from Girls in Peacetime stood way out to me on those moderately disappointing albums.

Play for Today and Cat with the Cream destined for my ballot.

Write About Love and I Didn't See It Coming stand a good chance as well.

Nobody's Empire from Girls in Peacetime will be top ten on my ballot, you should definitely check that out.

What do people reckon about PTBBOTS / Songs for Children? One song or two?

They're not obviously related as compositions, but they've never been issued as separate tracks. Hmmmmm. Perhaps we can separate them if someone expresses a desire to vote for the latter independently of the former. Otherwise...

"the book of you" from girls in peacetime is top ten and maybe even top five b&s for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yDPPdqyW8w

oh yeah "nobody's empire" is also way up there

Well damn I already submitted my ballot sans "Push Barman..." but it is far and away my favourite B&S "album" (as was the CD-R I made from a friend's 3-EP boxset before "Barman..." was released)

Stuart Murdoch basically hits the ball when he writes one of his signature traipsing melodies (e.g. the verses of "Beautiful", the whole of "Piazza, New York Catcher") and pairs it with a deliciously misanthropic sentiment. I've thought for hours about "I was moved to kick the crutches from my crippled friend / my crippled friend" which is enormously difficult to unpack-- the character is an asshole for kicking crutches, the songwriter himself is an asshole for singing "crippled", and yet the line seems to be loving, the repetition of "my crippled friend" suggests a commemorative quality to the moment. Or the entirely of "Lazy Jane" which is both gaze-y upon its subject and simultaneously appreciative, tossing off a "and... she's bisexual? not that there's anything.." moment with the boy/girl flip on the choruses. I can't really figure out of this kind of Jerk Protagonist lyrical approach is just a revision of Morrissey or if Murdoch has invented his own unique brand of sympathetic assholism

Their song 'Are You Coming Over For Christmas?' pretty much always makes it onto my alternative xmas mixes. We'll see how festive I am come poll submission.

XP: I think the first thing I did with Napster was construct exactly such an EP compilation. Barman might be my #1 too. Happy to accept amendments!

I can't really justify voting for anything later than oooh... "I'm Waking Up To Us" maybe? I always loved the performative melodrama in that one.

The first thing I've noticed going through these (I've got through the first 2 LPs and first 2 EPs) is that the opaque coyness I originally suspected to be about being gay is actually more like opaque coyness about being Christian. I'm fine with this now, but do wonder whether it would have put me off had I realised at the time I was listening to Christian rock.

I've thought for hours about "I was moved to kick the crutches from my crippled friend / my crippled friend" which is enormously difficult to unpack-- the character is an asshole for kicking crutches, the songwriter himself is an asshole for singing "crippled", and yet the line seems to be loving, the repetition of "my crippled friend" suggests a commemorative quality to the moment.

I thought it was less that he’s an asshole and more that he’s having delusions of being a faith healer, but I’ve never been quite clear on exactly what’s going on in the song. I do love that it’s one of those songs where each line changes the story.

Swear i think this might be their best song, maybe it just makes me a bit 'emo' because a girl i know said it helped her at a difficult time. It's about Stuart Murdoch's illness (ME) that he had when he was young and he shares towards the end the sage advice he received about how one might conquer fears/difficulties generally. I think it's everything a song should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgb8am3NQU0

Jonathan David will place high in my ballot. Such a singalong (if you share my talent for hitting high notes)

I didn't rank my ballot but it's "I Know Where The Summer Goes" because I am corny and I have good taste

"Nobody's Empire" is easily my favourite post-TLP track. Will be high up on my ballot.

this is going to be the first of these epic polls i will participate in

i'm finally qualified

this is going to be fun, i don't know the early stuff by them so looking forward to diving in. my favorite is The Life Pursuit as it sounds like a single collection more than an album.

also good job on the set up Nag! Nag! Nag!, as i don't think you have done one of these yet. it's a lot of work but also a lot of fun. have a good time!

New B&S makes me sad. I think Stuart David and Isobel Campbell shaped the band into something good. Upon their departure the shape of B&S was more volatile. It was a bright period of discovery in which they ventured down some untrodden territory; but at the same time they neglected their signature sound and space. That volatilty produced some random goodies alongside klunkers. However, it couldn’t sustain itself for very long. B&S slowly deflated into a “cool” (read as dull), spiritless, poo emoticon shape. Some say that on a particularly twee evening you can stick your head out the window and hear the ghost of Stuart moonlighting as his former self.

wtf @ that nonsense

Thry lost their innocence and you cant get that back.

every band falls off eventually. i don't think it's something to be sad about or lament

Jonathan David will place high in my ballot. Such a singalong (if you share my talent for hitting high notes)

Is Jonathan David the consensus favorite Stevie Jackson song? I like it a lot, but I've always found the chords and melody of the verses to be a little jarring. Can someone with a better grasp of theory explain what's going on there to make it so cartoonishly spooky and dissonant, like is it an abundance of diminished chords or something like that?

I'd go with To Be Myself Completely for top Stevie track--wistful pop-soul classicism with nice background vox from Stuart.

oh jeez "dirty dream number two" is the best song in the world

this is really great if yers haven't seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4de-RHHLCBA

(an hour long doc)

oh jeez "dirty dream number two" is the best song in the world

yup

it's really something

Is Jonathan David the consensus favorite Stevie Jackson song? I like it a lot, but I've always found the chords and melody of the verses to be a little jarring. Can someone with a better grasp of theory explain what's going on there to make it so cartoonishly spooky and dissonant, like is it an abundance of diminished chords or something like that?

not a theory expert, but there's a lot of modulation--the verse, pre-chorus/bridge, and chorus are all in different keys. and the verse chord progression is very chromatic with a lot of close chord changes (goes from G to G# a lot, which is an uncommon change in modern pop). also some shifts between the major and minor versions of chords. basically, they throw in every chord-theory trick in the book.

good song

Cheers Bee OK!

Not sure about the consensus, but "Jonathan David" is almost certainly my favourite SJ contribution. Likely top 10. And the promo video makes me laugh very reliably indeed. The other tracks on that single are also luvly, not least "The Loneliness of a Middle Distance Runner"...which I also need to hear without delay.

Stevie Jackson is a truly lovely individual, just saying

Jonathan David is essentially a Forever Changes/Alone Again Or homage, no?

listening to Write About Love for the first time, and although I like it better than Life Pursuit, on first listen, it's "I Want the World to Stop" that really stands out. the title track is pretty good, too

Oh, I've been following the other thread and completely missed that this was happening. I'm excited! It's been a while since we've polled a group where I knew all of their material inside and out like B&S.

DIrty Dream #2 is pure joy and the best of their 'Motown' songs.

I never liked DD#2 too much; the arrangement tipped into the wrong end of pastiche for me.

I will be participating in this poll.

Looking forward to relistening to those old songs I used to obsess over, and giving the last two albums a go.

I suspect my tolerance for the teenage girl character songs will have dwindled.

Aren't the Pocketbook Angel et al demos pre B&S?

My B&S deep-dive starts now! Is "Dog on Wheels" supposed to be an homage to/ripoff of "Maybe the People Would Be the Time or Between Clark and Hilldale" by Love?

Xps First listen to stuff from Peacetime - Play for Today is fabulous.

xp It's kind of like Love covering Summer Wine by Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazlewood

I can’t dislike any album up through FYH.. because those albums all all blend together into their signature sound (or mix tape) that I like so much

XP: That was my very first impression of B&S. "So this Belle & Sebastian thing the Indiepop List has been going on about for months is basically...Love, if 'Dog On Wheels' is any indication. Groovy!" or similar.

Jonathan David is essentially a Forever Changes/Alone Again Or homage, no?

― everything, Monday, November 26, 2018 10:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is how I feel about I’m Waking Up to Us (forever changes, not alone again)

I'm going to try and get a ballot together for this even though I only really like the early records - I just don't enjoy the post-'90s stuff apart from odd songs here and there.

Very easily found 20 tracks I can get behind, 30 is more of a stretch. Was able to shave it down a lot by eliminating any tracks whose tunes I couldn't immediately bring to mind.

I almost feel like doing a "worst" ballot would actually be fun for these guys -- I love them but they have a small minority of real clunkers. I sort of hate "I'm Waking Up To Us," "Sukie in the Graveyard" and a few others. Probably some of the Fold Your Hands deep cuts I've not listened to in a while.

Shocked we haven't polled them before! This is a band I've perpetually meant to dive into (past the three albums I have) so this seems the perfect time to do so

I was so fully obsessed with If You're Feeling Sinister -- don't listen to it THAT much anymore but I'm gonna be honest, it may be hard to identify a song on that album that doesn't rank among my top 30 B&S tracks.

barely started putting my ballot together but i think there's a good chance I'm A Cuckoo ends up my number one, it's such a perfect sunny pop song and really stands out in their catalogue

There's a lot of enthusiasm for this poll, glad to see it.

xp I'm a Cuckoo is brilliant, gonna be very high for me too

same

the most perfect thin lizzy pastiche

speaking of which I'm finally listening to their "Boys Are Back In Town" and it rules

i obviously love the avalanches remix, but i make time for both. there are little chordal flourishes in the original version that the remix steamrolls with flutes and percussion, but the remix is so lively and exuberant, an instant happy-maker.

As far as later tracks go, I'm a big fan of "The Blues are Still Blue."

who's voting for "legal man" aka my favorite pointless gilmore girls subplot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqjC1mmh3k

A few other tracks missing from the list initially posted, from various editions of Girls in Peacetime:

Born to Act
Two Birds
Piggy in the Middle
A Politician's Silence

Don't know that any would make my top 30, but I do play Politician's Silence a lot.

made it to fold your hands already:

- as has been stated 1000 times in this thread and the other b&s thread, tigermilk, sinister, and the three eps from '97 is just a perfect body of work
- boy with the arab strap is the slightest step down for me, it's just a lot looser than its predecessors, but i also love the way it feels kinda like an extended belle & sebastian ep with its swerves in and out of goofiness
- fold your hands starts off incredibly strong, "the model" may be in my top five. then "beyond the sunrise" happens

try the "only stuart songs" version of fold your hands!

Jonathan David

this song is a tuneless trainwreck and exactly the reason I stopped listening to this band

try the "only stuart songs" version of fold your hands!

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 1:23 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i really love "the wrong girl" tho!

but yeah all the stuart stuff on fold your hands is strong. i also love how often he trades vocals with stevie on this album

i binged last night and listened to almost all of their post DCW material. the only one i haven't listened to yet is Girls in Peacetime. in general i'm finding the later material to be much, much more patchy, like only a song or two from each album that really grabs me.

life pursuit, in particular, was a weird listening experience. there were all these risks taken, and not any overt disasters, really - so why did it all just drift by? it's the only full length that doesn't have any representation on my ballot so far, but i'm going to revisit before submitting.

not enough has been said about their "how to solve our human problems" series, which i find more compelling than pretty much anything they released between 2005-2015. it's also patchy, i think, but it seems to represent more of a new direction for them - more electronic and dance oriented.

"wrong girl" is my favorite non-stuart song on there for sure. but imo it's the last B&S with several top notch stuart songs on there. he reaches those heights again in places, but never so consistently.

Jonathan David

this song is a tuneless trainwreck and exactly the reason I stopped listening to this band

― Οὖτις, Tuesday

same until DCW, an album later

god "woman's realm" is the most perfect song

Are you coming or are you not?

i also think that part of my disenchantment with 2005-2017 era B&S is that so many of the lyrics seem to turn to how much stuart is mad at someone for slighting him, paired with enthusiasm for prayer. elements that have been part of the band since the beginning, to be sure, but in the earlier material he seemed more like he was uncomfortable being at a party, which i always found relatable. in the later material he seems like he hates the people he's partying with. and the churchy stuff seemed more subversive in the early material - it makes me think of a nun dreaming about having hot sex or something. in the later material it's more like "try prayer. seriously. it could work for you."

anyway i'm probably reading too much into all that stuff but in general i feel like things were a little more subtle and subversive in their older stuff

karl if you end up trying the life pursuit again: it's all about "dress up in you"

it can be hard to see the trees for the forest on that record, it's so extroverted and kinda in your face about it which makes it a v unusual belle & sebastian record

i am also considering voting for "another sunny day" and "we are the sleepyheads" but honestly i probably don't have the room

i love the life pursuit, and i'll be voting for dress up in you and a couple others

"We Are the Sleepyheads" is *nuts*, I remember playing that for a metalhead muso co-worker and his ears perked up throughout.

"Mornington Crescent" is their best closer imho. Also, re: non-Stuart songs on Fold Your Hands, "Family Tree" is lovely.

Another Sunny Day is the one that leapt out at me from Life Pursuit. I didn't realise how well I knew it until I listened again via Brad's playlist. It's a beautiful song, with some killer (mostly 15 syllable) lines but it's a bit B&S join the dots, somehow.

'We took the evening ferry over to the peninsula' might just be the perfect Murdoch line and absolutely kills me.

i missed brad's playlist! er...i can't seem to find it

hold up

here you go karl https://open.spotify.com/user/unbornwhiskey/playlist/4EvRvOmaS4T7qjh6kEkJjI?si=_cwi_GFdRRS-SE82nZSgFA

I also like that they seemed to feel the need to drop an f-bomb in as many songs as possible on that record

idk I thought Stuart Murdoch was an embarrassed p***hound who surrendered to his natural tendencies from DCW onward.

thanks!
xp

The Wrong Girl is their nadir afaic, from that out of tune cowbell in the introduction to the straining, meandering vocal, it was the moment I got off the bus.

Stop the TWATTYBUS I want to get off.

people sure tend get off the bus at decent-to-good stevie jackson songs

It's that, then The Chalet Lines, which is equally awful for completely different reasons, then Nice Day for a Sulk, which is the loveliest production wasted on the most nothing song. This while 'Loneliness of the Middle Distance Runner' was hanging around waiting to be thrown away on a b-side.

meanwhile i forgot how good "take your carriage clock and shove it" is xp

I think "I Fought in a War" was the first B&S song I ever heard. Not a bad introduction, really.

the first b&s song i ever heard was "like dylan in the movies," downloaded from a website that hosted a few random mp3s by bands i'd always wanted to hear

it was a great introduction, lotta room to dream in that song

my intro: "The Boy in the Arab Strap" at an indie disco circa 2000

where's the love for a Fold Your Hands track like "I Fought in a War"? to me, it would have fit right in with the Tigermilk/Sinister era tracks.

"Women's Realm" has been mentioned, but same deal. i feel like so many fans of the earlier material completely sleep on these tracks and have no idea what they're missing

xp! simon gets it

i think "Fought in a War" was also the first one i ever heard, via some pretty well known MP3 blog that some ILXor probably administered

i'm always with "i love my car" until that part that is pretty much straight up "piano man"

I really like the pulse/piano of “Woman’s Realm,” but not the strings or the wordless instrumental bits so much. Feels like just shy of a complete song to me.

the strings on that song make me dizzy in the best way

xxxp to Karl - the upfront optimistic Christianity on some of the recent songs really surprised me, I figured anyone who’d write a line like “so I gave myself to God, there was a pregnant pause before he (He?) said OK” had at least an ambivalent attitude towards religion.

I almost feel like doing a "worst" ballot would actually be fun for these guys

Seriously happy to add this, if there's interest. I believe I'm keen myself! Maybe even 5 selections?

I fear it would turn into a selection of which other singer people dislike the most - for me I'm afraid it would just be a list of five Stevie songs.

Man I love Fold Your Hands, Child so much. Sure, a couple of the non-Stuart songs are skippable, but my god the Stuart songs! The Model might be my absolute favorite: the harpsichord; the flood of oblique, compelling images (highlighted further by the song's lack of a chorus); the way Stevie sings the sixth line of each verse; the extended orchestral outro...

i had never heard storytelling before today and idk if i necessarily ever needed to. it's fine but... just fine. "wandering alone" is a lovely stevie/sarah joint at least

anyway that's it for the jeepster records, onto the rough trade era

sarah martin is the secret mvp of the later records imo

Couple of other really good tracks on Storytelling - Black & White unite, Scooby Driver - actually it's really pretty solid overall, just easy to forget all the instrumentals.

i do like "scooby driver" too

What are people's opinions on the first Peel session? From memory, it started off with a halfassed throwaway about how much he likes the Go-Betweens (that didn't really show any Go-Betweens influence musically, to my ears), but the other three tracks were all pretty special, each in it's own way.

wait, there's a seven minute version of "judy is a dick slap"

i'm always with "i love my car" until that part that is pretty much straight up "piano man"

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 4:34 PM (forty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

doesn't it start with that 6/8 break?

i try hard not to hold piano man against songs with descending whole step basslines in 6/8.

What are people's opinions on the first Peel session? From memory, it started off with a halfassed throwaway about how much he likes the Go-Betweens (that didn't really show any Go-Betweens influence musically, to my ears), but the other three tracks were all pretty special, each in it's own way.

― Jonathan Hellion Mumble, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:10 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i had never heard these before either! "magic of a kind word"... rules???

It's possible I get more mileage out of stuff about taking a Go-Between home to meet the parents than I should. I have a soft spot for "My Girl's Got Miraculous Technique" from that Peel Session, perhaps mostly for the pretty arrangement.

I just looked out the BBC sessions compilation to hear these again, and unfortunately the Radcliffe version of "I Could Be Dreaming" (the BEST version) fades out before the really interesting stuff. And "Just A Modern Rock Song" (again, the BEST version) is left off completely! Just gather all the early sessions in full and you'd have an alltime classic compilation, instead you get random whispers of magic, a bunch of so-so run throughs and a whole second disc given over to a live show by Belle & Sebastian, Professional Touring Rock Band. So no one ever reaches for the album that awesome all-originals Peel session kinda gets lost in the middle of it and forgotten about...

still love dear catastrophe waitress the most of their albums

"stay loose" is so wild and awesome and has so little precedent in their catalog

As far as later tracks go, I'm a big fan of "The Blues are Still Blue."

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 9:00 AM

I heard this once or twice on the radio, around the time the album came out, and have always remembered it (it's lived in the very back of my head. Revisiting it now, good song! (What's that "rock 'n roll voice" he affects? I don't dislike it...)

it’s marc bolan

Ah cool. I definitely notice a broader swatch of "influences"/references/homages at this stage in their career (even if I'm not savvy enough to pinpoint them all).

Speaking of which, you all have me (happily) going through their records after many years and was listening to I Want the World to Stop this morning. Thought the intro sounded familiar and finally realized it was referencing Frankie Valli's "The Night" (the "the night, the night" refrain should have been a clue in hindsight). So good (can never listen to the Night enough).

still love dear catastrophe waitress the most of their albums

― princess of hell (BradNelson),

my boo

Man, the last quarter-or-so of Push Barman is a SLOG. Except for the hilarious “I Love My Car.”

That's funny - I was just seguing from "Jonathan David" to "Take Your Carriage Clock..." as you posted that.

I just skimmed through it, and all it did was confirm that the only EP tracks of theirs that I've ever loved are "Lazy Line Painter Jane" and "This is Just a Modern Rock Song."

The song "Lazy Line Painter Jane" is terrific, one of their best. I find it, like, almost physically moving, somehow.

I think that monstrous coda is what finally convinced me to buy something. (Sinister though, which was easier to find.)

Everything about it works beautifully -- the organ, the reverb, the other singer (she's great!); the chorus, the coda, the chord changes; the organ coming in again; that sinister little up-and-down bassline hook...

...which the organ picks up & plays along with the bass a few times to close it out! Fuck, that's great

thinking it'll take the top spot

Jonathan David tuneless???

If anything it has too much tune

ha that's otm

Monica Queen's bit in "Lady Painter" reminds me a bit of Maria McKee or Patty Loveless.

The Lazy Line bsides are phenomenal as well!! Well, not "a century of Elvis"

I like “Photo Jenny” a lot — it’s sort of a ground-zero B&S song. (What’s that line; “It’s 1995, the girls are just friends”?)

I like when the Stuart M. narrator figure seems aware of his own creepiness.

I can't imagine they'll make my ballot, but the Peacetime offcuts "Two Birds" and especially "A Politician's Silence" were album-worthy.

I like “A Century of Elvis.” Anyone read Stuart David’s novels?

Sent my ballot

Incidentally, I'll be trying to do data entry as we go and acknowledging receipt quickly. If you don't see a response in 48 hours or so, certainly feel to check.

Also happy to amend ballots if you belatedly realise you forgot "La Pastie de la Bourgeoisie" (Other tracks too, probably)

Er, "feel FREE" even.

I definitely notice a broader swatch of "influences"/references/homages at this stage in their career (even if I'm not savvy enough to pinpoint them all).

Mixed feelings about this period because the songs are some of their best (Blues Are Still Blue (T-Rex), Jonathan David (Love), Stay Loose (Squeeze/Attractions), I'm A Cuckoo (Thin Lizzy), that Simon & Garfunkel one on Storytelling, etc - but they really lost their own sound. And this period followed the loss of some major band members too so it perhaps communicates a lack of confidence in what they were doing.

but they really lost their own sound.

that kinda fits in with something that stuck out to me from the Sinister pitchfork doc. it was two different anecdotes, one by Stuart and another by someone else in the band (I forget)

Stuart said something along the lines of songs, the very best songs, being ones that were important to the songwriter and where they were really trying to express something. "songs that mean something", iirc. that sounds really obvious and lame when i paraphrase it, but it was better than that.

separately, another band member mentioned that he really felt like stuart dumped all of his loneliness and repression from chronic fatigue syndrome into those first two albums, like he had all of these things he really had to get out of him. and that after that, it was when he opened up the songwriting and singing to other members of the band.

those two things together made a lot of sense for me, thinking about their progression as a band. those first few releases are really special in a way that was hard for them to recapture later.

i really do enjoy some of the latter day material on its own terms but it usually doesn't have that same quality of feeling like songs that really MEAN something to the writer, although of course it's all subjective

“a century of fakers” still totally blows my mind

Monica Queen's bit in "Lady Painter" reminds me a bit of Maria McKee or Patty Loveless.

Her vocal section in 'Lazy Line Painter Jane' is the only time in one of Murdoch's songs where a female character that he observes from a distance actually seems to come to life and have a voice and energy of their own.

https://youtu.be/4de-RHHLCBA
Just watched this and it was really good!

I'm in a full fledged B&S reverie

From memory, it started off with a halfassed throwaway about how much he likes the Go-Betweens (that didn't really show any Go-Betweens influence musically, to my ears)

― Jonathan Hellion Mumble, Tuesday, 27 November 2018 22:10 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is one of my favourites and will almost certainly make my ballot. It makes me grin all over. I love the loose improvised feel of the lyrics (in that respect it's reminiscent of the gaucheness of a song like Karen). "Now I'm in a band people try to make me do things / Kiss arses and pay tribute" Come ON. Felt like a massive sonic surprise at the time, at once a callback to their earliest spoken word experiments and pointing elements of a new direction beyond the chamber pop thing they were starting to overhone on Fold Your Hands.

sarah martin is the secret mvp of the later records imo

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, 27 November 2018 22:02 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Waiting for the Moon to Rise absolutely melts me. I Didn't See it Coming is the only song I can remember from Write About Love. She is great.

How many times do I have to listen to The Life Pursuit before it stops washing over me?

listened to Fold Your Hands for the first time in forever but it still didn't leave much of an impression on me. it's low-key even by their standards and certainly one of their weakest records

Monica Queen's bit in "Lady Painter" reminds me a bit of Maria McKee or Patty Loveless.

― I like queer. You like queer, senator? (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 November 2018 02:20 (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I remember hearing this for the first time: "Blimey, someone who can actually sing!"

Fold Your Hands was the first B&S album I bought, definitely their weakest up to that point but there are a couple of tracks I'm sure I'll be voting for.

I revisited the EP collection last night, I haven't listened to a lot of this stuff in a long time but it turns out a lot of the lyrics are very deeply ingrained in my memory (as well as lots of little things like that one background "I dunno" in Photo Jenny).

Waiting for the Moon to Rise absolutely melts me. I Didn't See it Coming is the only song I can remember from Write About Love. She is great.

― Alba, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 11:44 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and all of her songs on girls in peacetime are the best songs on the record!

me last night: "is 'beautiful' actually the best b&s song"

Thanks to this thread I now have 109 B&S songs on my phone

I need to spend a little more time with the new EP set, also.

First draft ballot is now up to 39 songs.

(And I'm no longer sick: these two things are no coincidence).

I just did a first pass in 5 minutes and ended up with 28 tracks, which neatly leaves me two slots for discoveries in their recent output.

oh amazing, have just seen this is happening. will start putting a longlist together!

re 'fold your hands...' : fought in a war, leave the light on and the last three tracks are all timers

yeah i can agree the last three tracks were definitely the strongest section

two indisputable classics that haven't been mentioned itt: 'slow graffiti' and 'if you find yourself caught in love'. especially love the spitefulness of the latter.

'Slow Graffiti' is all time, agreed. Looking forward to putting a ballot together. I got off the bus after DCW (which I love).

Slow Gradditi is top five for me for sure. I don't read 'If you find yourself...' as particularly spiteful, just really straightforwardly christian.

Just re-listened to The Life Pursuit, actually really liked the first two thirds, but the end part really does sag. And heard Write About Love for the first time, not bad exactly, but almost nothing remotely memorable on the entire album.

Gradditi!

WAL might be their most consistent post-Jeepster album, just not a ton of super high highs.

I don't read 'If you find yourself...' as particularly spiteful, just really straightforwardly christian.

maybe more passive aggressive than spiteful, but it's always felt like it's baring it's teeth to me.

The only freedom that you'll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago

There is a comment on Youtube about this line which I found interesting:

If you read Martin Luther's "Freedom of a Christian," the answer is obvious. Murdoch is Calvinist, which isn't a huge difference. If you want to know what kind of "freedom" Murdoch is referring to, Luther wrote a pamphlet called.... something like "the slavery of free will," and Calvin was even more anti-free will, if that's even possible. If you want to read rebuttals written at a time to such a position, Erasmus the Humanist wrote some great ones to Luther, and I believe Cranmer (founder of Anglicanism) might have as well. So, there are a lot of key terms that only the "faithful" and those who have read the big (in this case) Protestant essays will catch. That's generally how evangelicals communicate with one another via "code."

"slow graffiti" is also top five for me

Oh wow, listening to Girls in Peacetime for the first time and four tracks in it's a real breath of fresh air after the previous two albums. I think part of the reason I never listened to it before was the terrible title, which was all bit God Help the Girl Keep Calm and Carry On.

Write About Love does have one non-Sarah track I really like, it turns out: the closer, Sunday's Pretty Icons.

the main issue with girls in peacetime is it's way too long (yet it doesn't feel as long as the life pursuit, though i may be the only person that thinks that). i enjoy just about everything on it regardless

There's a kind of fatigue I associate with B&S - particularly with Fold and, it turns out, Life Pursuit. Fatweegue?

Sorry.

lol

oh, one song no one's mentioned yet that... may top my list, idk, is "if she wants me"

"if i could do just one near-perfect thing i'd be happy" is my favorite stuart murdoch lyric no contest

Life Pursuit could def lose a couple tracks from the back half pretty painlessly, but no more than that

"If She Wants Me" is in my top ten for sure, beautiful song and a lovely sentiment too

Was reading this nytimes profile - learned that he credits a faith healer for part of his recovery, also that “Take Your Carriage Clock” was about Isobel?

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/magazine/28Murdoch-t.html

These polls make me wonder how methodically everyone puts together their ballots. I tend to slap mine together a bit haphazardly, running on gut instinct, because if I start to think about it too much I'll never get it done.

i tend to listen to as much of the discography as possible, then cull a playlist of what i'm definitely voting for, and then agonize over placement daily until the deadline

of the later b-sides, i looooooove "desperation made a fool of me," that could've easily been on dcw

I fuss over selection but, outside the top 5 or so, not that much over placement. I do try to throw extra points to stuff i assume will be overlooked, which in this case will mostly be later stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMQuIALumVk

i love it so much

the top comment is a yikes from me fam

my girlfriend can relate to this song so much because i'm a horrendous liar and I enjoy, and thrive off of her pain and despair.

I've had a few drinks tonight and tried to make a list and it's everything before Modern Rock Song. I don't really understand this band after that.

Anyone planning to vote for any 'side project' songs? I'm a huge Looper fan, and like some of Isobel Campbell's albums a lot. But I couldn't with honesty rank any of their songs above my favorite 30 B&S songs.

The idea of listening to B-sides is like being told, "We're having a 10-course meal tonight with wine pairings."

Gluttonous? But they're so wispy!

"Mornington Crescent" is their best closer imho.

i like and respect this opinion. however, it's "stay loose" and/or "the rollercoaster ride"

write about love is prob my favorite production they've ever had, a lot of really crisp details and the arrangements really wander through space, but the songs are just... there, for the most part. i loooooooove "i didn't see it coming" and "i want the world to stop"

it's weird, they deescalate from life pursuit and make a record of subtleties and shadows and it should work but they end up as kind of self-erasing songs (how does "calculating bimbo" go?)

i also love the boxy snare tone on this record it's obnoxious

XXXP: I meant to ask on the first day whether a separate 'other projects' side poll was in order. I guessed interest levels would be modest. But setting them up to compete directly against the main attraction possibly isn't ideal.

This while 'Loneliness of the Middle Distance Runner' was hanging around waiting to be thrown away on a b-side.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length)

I never could understand why this song wasn't a single. I first heard it performed live, and my first thought was, "how have I never heard this song before??"
And the reason of course, is that it was buried as a B-side. And that the recorded version packs none of punch that the live version had.

In any case that song is top 5 me, for sure.

Also XXXP about the side projects: I prefer the version of "Funny Little Frog" that's on the God Help The Girl album, so that song is gonna make my tracks poll.
Never got into looper though.

Back when I first got into B&S, I was trying to convince a friend of mine to check them out. He did, and he didn't like them. When I went to visit him later, I saw that he had bought 2 CD's: Fold Your Hands and the first Looper album, and I thought, oh no wonder, you bought exactly the wrong 2 albums.

"I Didn't See It Coming" is probably their very best non-Murdoch song, a real late career highlight.

"Mornington Crescent" is their best closer imho.

i like and respect this opinion. however, it's "stay loose" and/or "the rollercoaster ride"

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 29 November 2018 01:56 (one hour ago) Permalink

judy and her dream of horses say hello

Glad to see some love for '...Middle Distance Runner.' It's high on my ballot and again memories of live renditions heard before the B-side recording are partly responsible. (Though I'm not sure how that happened: I've never seen them in the flesh and don't recall stumbling on many live recordings in dark turn-of-the-century days.)

(how does "calculating bimbo" go?)

Ha I kinda love that one, mostly for the "rich girl creamy parchment paper" middle eight thing

"I Didn't See It Coming" is probably their very best non-Murdoch song, a real late career highlight.

― ufo, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 8:18 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the other sarah martin song, "i can see your future," is also wonderful

i also really like "sunday's pretty icons" and sorta wish the entire album was more like it

the first five tracks on girls in peacetime are all so awesome, they feel like a completely new band that's also capable of reaccessing their old mystery ("nobody's empire," "the cat with the cream")

Glad to see some love for '...Middle Distance Runner.' It's high on my ballot and again memories of live renditions heard before the B-side recording are partly responsible. (Though I'm not sure how that happened: I've never seen them in the flesh and don't recall stumbling on many live recordings in dark turn-of-the-century days.)

Possibly you heard it on TV: long before the studio version was released they did a great version of it on a fin-de-millennium revival of The Tube on Sky 1 called Apocalypse Tube (presented by Chris Moyles and Donna Air!)

I love “Outer Bongolia” but can’t imagine ever thinking about it in a poll about B&S

Also I played B&S around the house past two days and bf does Not Like Them

Their slack approach on those first three albums and 3xEPs really needs the try-hard context of 1996-1998 for the revolution to really be understood

Is it so slack? Most of it sounds pretty intricate to me.

both tigermilk and sinister were recorded and mixed in a matter of days fwiw.

The outro of Dylan In the Movies is sloppy af

Yes It Is Slack

"This Is Just A Modern Rock Song" is so slack that I sometimes can't believe that it was actually recorded and released. A friend of mine likes to talk about how Beat Happening are "the most punk" because of the 'slack', and I get the theory behind it, even if I personally think there's a difference between 'a controlled environment in which mistakes are allowed and encouraged' and 'a completely half-assed approach to music-making that gets a pass because something about it seems vaguely anti-capitalist, and it's a bitter pill, because you Hate Capitalism, but you also still recognize that it is Stuart Murdoch's and Calvin Johnson's face on the cover of this magazine, being celebrated and paid for his half-assedness, and you know too that Calvin Johnson made enemies in his time also, so you think that 'slack' might be a dead-end but you don't want to be the whistle-blower on it, because you'll just sound elitist, so you sit around and listen to those moments in "This Is Just A Modern Rock Song" where literally nothing is happening and you think about how the 3xCD boxset did cost some fucking dough when you saw it behind the counter at the record store, and you develop a sense of cynicism toward politics-when-represented-in-music, and suddenly Stuart starts making sense, because he's a grifter too, and the band just sounds like an ironic in-joke, and we're all still here, polling their tracks, a literal group of piss-ants who called their song "Le Pastie De La Bourgeoisie" and there's nothing you can do about it, so might as well just look at Stuart's shoes and scream "what are thoooooooose", because we're post-post-post-everything now, so will we be happy when Belle & Sebastian make a comeback? Appear on Ellen? Will they make their masterpiece or will this real-band-with-fake-intentions be outed over time and will we finally recognize them for the Pink Floyd that they are?"

errm, i think you might be overthinking it. the guys just knows how to write a good melody.
slack or not, "modern rock song" is catchy as fuck.

"if i could do just one near-perfect thing i'd be happy" is my favorite stuart murdoch lyric no contest

Same here, lovely.

God I love "I'm a Cuckoo" -- 5:30 minutes long and unlike some latter-day poppy B&S it just builds and builds without dragging.

Yeah, it's just fantastic. I've probably overlistened to it. One of those songs where if you asked me what it's about I'd realise it's never really thought about it, but which makes complete emotional sense when you're singing along to that chorus.

A song I don't think has been mentioned so far, but which had grown and grown in my affection is A Summer Wasting. It captures something even more precious to me as the years go by.

"I'd realise I've," rather.

Would be nice to include a worst songs top 5 in this voting (I see you, 'Funny Little Frog'...)

As someone said, it might just descend into 'list lots of Stevie songs' for many people. Talking of which, I have to find a way to squeeze Seymour Stein on to my ballot.

I gave "A Summer Wasting" a whole heap of points. The words are affecting and the performance on record is woozy (slack?) in the just right way. The short little tracks on TWATTYBUS that no-one much seems to talk about ("Simple Things" is another) are secretly the best bits. :)

"just the right way" rather. My typos just get odder and odder.

'He reminded you of Johnny before he went Electronic' is such a beautiful line. For all the richness of the connotations and allusions and Murdoch's ambiguous yearning, it seems to float in space, a pre-echo of the plane in the final line.

Yikes, I will log off next time I decide to get stoned and stay up late listening to B&S

Ha ha.

I had just given up working at a couple of (really) small record companies when Boy With the Arab Strap came out. "Seymour Stein" (and "Chickfator") perfectly sums up the ambivalence of involvement in the business. That line "Record company man, I won't be coming to dinner" kills me. Mentioned so sadly casual but, really, it'd be a big deal to the A&R guy or whoever. Labels and publishers taking twenty-whatever year olds out for sushi was either staggeringly complimentary or completely gross depending on the person who wielded the company credit card.

Did that Seymour Stein meeting really happen?

Wow, why didn't I notice that "I Don't Love Anyone" rips Hootie & the Blowfish?

xpost -- yeah here's Stevie and
Seymour about it

^ names are linked...

Thx

"Mornington Crescent" is their best closer imho.

i like and respect this opinion. however, it's "stay loose" and/or "the rollercoaster ride"

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, November 28, 2018 8:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, but it's a trick question, because the correct answer is actually Big John Shaft
(everyone forgets about Storytelling)

*moves judy and the dream of horses higher on ballot*

lol

i love "judy and the dream of horses" but that dual guitar line in "stay loose" is the truth

band has a lot of great moments within their songs and that is probably my favorite moment in the discog

(second fav: "when the music stops" in "like dylan in the movies")

oh yeah, one of my favorite examples of this: Songs that actually, like, stop when the singer says 'stop.'

My neighbours who just spotted me through my kitchen window dancing to "Me and the Major" have this poll to thank.

the horn solo in "judy" is maybe the single most joyous moment for me in their catalogue

was "me and the major" an explicit or implicit reference to this Major? couldn't have been a coincidence, right?

I think it was a coincidence.

Would be nice to include a worst songs top 5 in this voting (I see you, 'Funny Little Frog'...)

'funny little frog' will almost certainly be in my top 10

the contrived pronunciation of 'throat' to rhyme with 'poet' is so good

Looking forward to relistening to those old songs I used to obsess over, and giving the last two albums a go.

I suspect my tolerance for the teenage girl character songs will have dwindled.

After listening to the first three albums and EPs, this has proved the case, or, more specifically, I tend to prefer Stuart's songs when he's singing in the first and second person. I think I'm OK leaving all his early character songs about girls and women that refer to them wholly or partly in the third-person (She's Losing It, Judy and the Dream of Horses, String Bean Jean and Mary Jo) off my ballot.

Something I've never noticed till today: the title tracks of both Sinister and Arab Strap end with references to masturbation. I'm sure if Tigermilk had had a title track he's have managed it there too.

Pretty sure it would be a plushie manifesto.

'funny little frog' will almost certainly be in my top 10

― devvvine, Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:40 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm gonna vote for it too

Funny Little Frog is the Frog Chorus of Belle & Sebastian's career.

"she's losing it" is a song about me imo. also don't cut "she's losing it" my god

"She's Losing It" is a manic-pixie-dreamgirl movie in song form.

oh we can't go down the 'that one is about me' road because obviously so many people feel that these songs are about them -- it's what makes B&S songs so great!! so intensely personal and also mundane <3

i might vote in this poll. the songs i love, i love pretty fiercely.

"She's Losing It" is a manic-pixie-dreamgirl movie in song form.

― enochroot, Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:48 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is completely untrue?

two angry and sad young women with ptsd transfer to a school where everyone is gay afaict, it's a perfect narrative

is a classic but also one of the fifteen songs competing for my last five ballot places, this is impossible

well that's what i get for not paying attention to lyrics.
next you're gonna tell me "Funny Little Frog" is about jesus or something.

as they teach psalms, jesus is the funniest little frog of all

https://theredkrayola.bandcamp.com/track/baby-jesus-frog

Wow, why didn't I notice that "I Don't Love Anyone" rips Hootie & the Blowfish?

― I like queer. You like queer, senator? (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:44 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is sheer contempt of this poll.

I've cut to 30. That was painful.

Current favourite lyric: 'big pockets for the pharmaceuticals she takes to fix her brain.'

Bollocks, forgot 'I Know Where The Summer Goes'.

He's not been mentioned as an influence so far, but 'I'm Waking Up To Us' is pure Cat Stevens.

doesn't he have a song called "I love my dog" too? (Quoted in "I love my car")

Wow, why didn't I notice that "I Don't Love Anyone" rips Hootie & the Blowfish?

bbut u wrote that in your blog

I was listening to a shuffled B&S playlist on spotify and I decided to look up the lyrics of two songs: ‘Marx and Engels’ and ‘Lazy Line Painter Jane’. I thought I would get a better understanding about the girls in these two songs but there really wasn’t much more to gain from the lyrics. Then I thought maybe I’m just stupid for not getting it.

Eventually I remembered that I really don’t know what the lyrics are *all* about for a lot of good songs and that can be a good thing. Plus I really don’t need to dig deeper to enjoy a song I already enjoy. And a lot if times lyricists don’t actually write anything deeper. They might prefer to leave some things open-ended.

Re-listening to everything in preparation for my ballot and, wow, "Lord Anthony" just snuck up. Hadn't thought of it in years. What a great song!

Wow, why didn't I notice that "I Don't Love Anyone" rips Hootie & the Blowfish?

Gotta say I genuinely love "Only Wanna Be With You" *and* "I Don't Love Anyone". Sang the former to my (dearly departed) cat.

here is the great 'loneliness of the middle distance runner' tv performance mentioned upthread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_nlGHj8lKY

the future's looking colourful / it's the colour of blood, chaos, and corruption of a happy soul

Oh wow look at those cuties! Thanks for posting that: was great to see it again.

It has reminded me that I transcribed the lyrics with a few question marks ("the dog lies down?") and posted them to the Sinister mailing list. Then out of the blue I got an email from Stuart Murdoch saying yes, that's right. Sent from one of those Amstrad email phones. What a moment!

And yet you had the cheek to mock his line about his phone being "full of silicon chips"!

Ha ha, i was listening to that on the way in to work today and it made me smile again. I put it in a special category with "She's got it all on computer disk / Cause she's a marketing analyst". TECHNOSTRAUN.

Thanks for posting, devvvine, but it says it's blocked in the US :(
I'm seriously considering signing up for a VPN just so I can watch that.

Ah figured out how to get the link to show in the US (try this)

That looks like the same configuration of band members as they had on the tour where I first heard them perform that song... about 2000 or 2001. I think Isobel quit the band mid-tour, but Stuart David was already gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZGVgg-QI6w

"Your Cover's Blown" is a top three track for me, lovely evolution. My underrated campaign nom.

it's such an outlier in their catalogue but absolutely one of their best moments

Verses of Stay Loose were definitely ripped off by Of Montreal at some point

Not that I remember much about the show, but I found a copy of the setlist they played in Chicago in 1998!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/18097936@N00/2574704491/in/set-72157605587414204

That was sooooo long ago.

I love the epic structure of Your Cover's Blown. Definitely making my ballot.

Cover’s Blown is one of 4-5 tracks in competition for #1 for me

First listen to Your Cover's Blown. It's got more than a whiff of William Onyeabor!

That version of Loneliness ^^ is lovely. The B A E F#/F#m progression is the most Belle and Sebastian of them all.

That’s the Stars of Track and Field chorus, right?

Listened to Tigermilk for the first time ever to vote for this poll. For some reason, I was expecting something of demo quality, light on instrumentation. It's actually quite filled out, probably more interesting arrangements than Sinister. It's sad that I never listened to "The State I Am In" before now; some other great tracks too

Also listened to Life Pursuit, which was nice, but only "We Are the Sleepyheads" really caught me, which is kinda XTC-like?

We Are The Sleepyheads is wonderful, for some reason it was picked as a weak track in some reviews though.

My "everyone go listen to this now" track today is Play For Today from 'Girls in Peacetime'

That’s the Stars of Track and Field chorus, right?

Among so many others, aye.

I always loved the Dirty Dream #2 video, even if its American-ness makes it a bit strange for B&S. Might be my #1 track by them too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqhSMAlkhQ

Noted elsewhere, but that video is packed with folks from the Athens E6 scene, plus Corin Tucker (whose husband Lance Bangs directed).

a rarity i adore: their rendition of 'o come, o come emmanuel'

I always loved the Dirty Dream #2 video, even if its American-ness makes it a bit strange for B&S. Might be my #1 track by them too.

it's my no. 1, still, and i've almost finished my discography run. perfect in every way. the strings, the guitar jangle after the chorus, the insistent motown pulse, one of murdoch's best melodies, ugh

lyrics are perfect too
i'm lucky i can open the door and i can walk down the street <-- i think about this all the time for some reason

Love that the video is obviously the American South, but the people and the film stock and clothes and general kissy kissy tweeness makes it feel exactly like the other early B&S vids.

New @bellesglasgow album artwork leaked
pic via @pipterino pic.twitter.com/reVtpaSw1m

— Avalanche Records (@avalanche_edin) November 30, 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ljpDsU3raE

Will be ranking Electronic Renaissance highly. Wish they had explored this low-fi synth pop zone a bit more. "Monochrome in the 1990's / You go disco and I'll go my way" is a kind of mission statement for early B&S

i like this one a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfTj6ErRQtQ

xp “synth pop zone”

Try “Judy Is A Dick Slap - New Extended Version” from the Jeepster Singles Collection. I heard it on spotify the other day. It’s not on youtube. Definitely perked my ears up.

"Act of the Apostle" seems to be their least loved LP-opener. There are but a handful of enthusiasts in the archives and the band don't seem to perform it terribly often. But it's great. The chorus does strange things to my brain. I'm moving it higher up my list, dammit.

Christ, this is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Nine of the ten songs on Tigermilk made my 50 song long longlist! Sorry, Mary Jo.

I haven't heard How To Solve Our Human Problems yet and am tempted to skip it to make this easier on myself (I won't).

If you were all to campaign for one song from the last 5 years, what would it be? I'd go for Fickle Season.

i like this one a lot

Yes! I was thinking I would be the only one to vote for Winter Wooksie.

I have a complicated relationship with whimsy and at best I find it suspicious at worst it makes me want to do bad things to my fellow man. For whatever reason, Belle and Sebastian short circuit my whimsy-hate. But, fwiw Winter Wooksie is a step too far. Even that title is putting my teeth on edge!

I totally hear you and that’s how I feel about 50% of their songs, but not that one

Haha, I think 'Winter Wooksie' was the earliest of their tracks I started skipping altogether!

Re Human Problems, I hadn't heard a note of it a week ago and it hasn't been a particularly easy nut to crack. One track that does stick out is "Cornflakes" but I can't decide whether that is just because it's odd. S Jackson sounds exactly like Stephen Pastel and Edwyn Collins in alternate sections (these just sound like particularly lazy Scottish references, but I can't un-hear it) and it's disjointed in an endearing, vaguely psychedelic way. If I can work out whether all this equates to 'good' it may be even be in my thirty. I'm certainly getting a lot a mileage of it, just trying to decide.

S Jackson sounds exactly like Stephen Pastel and Edwyn Collins in alternate sections (these just sound like particularly lazy Scottish references, but I can't un-hear it)

You mean it sounds like he needs tae gie his snout a guid blaw?

Ha!

From the last five years... maybe "The Cat With the Cream". Not least because that string arrangement is kinda unsettling, which is always appreciated.

feel like both of stevie's write about love songs ("i'm not living in the real world" and ESPECIALLY the b-side "last trip") are better than almost anything stuart brought to the table for that record, curious reversal

"perfect couples" is also great but i'm generally pro-stevie

also i am really considering voting for "winter wooskie," slight but so sweet

better than almost anything stuart brought to the table for that record

i take it back, "blue eyes of a millionaire" is wonderful. why is it a b-side

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK_FsSTa7hI

this song was written before tigermilk???? i guess that makes a lot of sense. i'd love to hear the eight minute version which only came out on the girls in peacetime vinyl box set

sorry i know this is my thirtieth post itt in a row but... i think girls in peacetime is my favorite belle and sebastian album now? it took a few years, but then so did dear catastrophe waitress. and it holds a similar appeal, i think: they sound like they're enjoying expanding their sound so much, and every new move is so confidently executed, even "the everlasting muse" which i previously found puzzling. plus all the b-sides are amazing, especially "two birds" and "a politician's science." i generally love hearing a band this inspired so late in their career

"politician's science" in particular is like some long-awaited sequel to "dog on wheels" for me

That slow version of Seeing Other People is interesting and worthwhile, doesn't really hold a candle to the proper version which is (one of 20 or so) nailed-on-top-five for me. But ertainly the sort of thing that justifies the existence of a BBC sessions compilation oh wait it's another baffling omission from that travesty.

I couldn't even find the non-"abbrieviated" session version of I Could Be Dreaming on youtube during a (admittedly somewhat drunken) trawl last night. Miraculously found a cdr with it though, and it was my should-be-getting-out-of-bed procrastination soundtrack this morning. Maybe I should upload it somewhere, cos those of youse who haven't heard the last couple of minutes are missing out, it is the sound of a band writing their own mythology in realtime, or somesuch nonsense

yeah please i was searching for that last night and i couldn't find it anywhere

Here ye go then

https://www8.zippyshare.com/v/Vn5qfVnM/file.html

"They called us winsome... but we're just hopeless..."

thank you, this rules

That's fantastic, cheers - almost broadway.

Stevie's guitar has been the biggest revelation of this rediscovery process. His tone is just glorious.

I remember reading something back in the day mentioned Steve Cropper as an influence and it had never occurred to me but yes! of course! and from then I couldn't help hear that all over the early stuff, that kinda choppy sound

Interesting, esp. since the northern (as opposed to southern) soul stuff is a much bigger (or clearer) influence, but now that you mention it, yeah, some of his fills seem Cropper-y, esp. in stuff like "Step Into My Office, Baby." Regardless, I always thought Stevie got the award for most improved, as both player and writer, as the band has gone on.

I was amazed at how much they downplayed Rich Colburn in the Sinister film. I think he's a fantastic drummer.

colburn mostly downplayed himself, which as a self-taught drummer i get. but yeah he’s great

The first 4 minutes of this reminds me how good they were
live in this era but also what a great song Le Pastie De La Bourgeoisie is
https://youtu.be/UCK3CLwAE98

the how to solve our human problems stuff is all so fun. less cohesive and consistent than girls in peacetime but they're eps, imo it's by design. there is probably a solid eleven track life pursuit-ish album in there though. also "we were beautiful" is completely awesome and i have no idea if i have room for it in my ballot

I just noticed another song missing from the Google Doc: "Wrong Love" from the BBC Sessions.

It's basically a simpler arrangement of "The Wrong Girl", no?

yes

Fun fact: 86 different tracks have received votes so far.

oh shit it's happening!

They are a perfect polling band, with the nooks and crannies of the early EPs, generous output but also steadfast classics.

just submitted my ballot

she thought it would be fun to try photography
she thought it would be fun to try pornography
she thought it would be fun to try most anything
she was tired of sleeping

Dylan in the Movies would be my #1 had they recorded it with Cooke's trumpet.

you could invert my entire ballot and it'd still make sense as a ranking

too many good b&s songs

looong xp, but i just bumped into the piece referred to by:

the horn solo in "judy" is maybe the single most joyous moment for me in their catalogue

the near-juxtaposition of that section to the first, faulting recorder bit is so effective for me. agreed, it’s grand.

Girls in Peacetime Want to Dance is surprisingly much better than i remembered? it's still a bit bloated and doesn't have anything quite as great as "I Didn't See It Coming" but i certainly prefer it to The Life Pursuit and Write About Love. "Play For Today" is the highlight

man "Sweet Dew Lee" from How to Solve Our Human Problems is great? really wasn't expecting something that good after how ignored those EP's seemed to be

I have that peacetime big box, made 4 cds out of it, it's basically four EPs and works that way.

Might get around to the new album at some point.

the rest of How To Solve Our Human Problems is generally forgettable but "Best Friend" is quite nice too at least

Ballot sent. That was tough.

I've not really paid much attention to the Left Banke before. 1) They're great and b) well, listen for yourself!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBv64sXY-Gs

have relistened to the albums through Fold Your Hands and the first three EPs so far

the most indelible track of these records, for me, is still the title track on If You're Feeling Sinister

not sure it's their best but it's the one that's still stuck in my head 20+ years later

The incidental playground noises somehow boost it to a whole other level.

I know for me it’s all nostalgia, can't really be objective, but in the 7 releases I’ve revisited so far I'm not sure there’s one I like better - although The State I’m In, The Rollercoaster Ride, Stars of Track and Field, Lazy Line Painter Jane, The Boy With the Arab Strap are all close seconds

listening to it again The Rollercoaster Ride reminds me a little of the hushed harmonies of Yo La Tengo

I remember thinking at the time DCW was a new beginning for them, but that was the point I lost touch

looking forward hearing it again

That slow version of "Seeing Other People" is interesting. The limitations of their singing are really on stark display, but it's still so endearing.
I don't know if this is what fgti was referring to upthread as "slack", but if so, it was a key element of their early appeal. Combine this with their mysteriousness in the pre-napster era, and it really did feel like some kind of private club.

Boring administration note: if folks wish to enter a unranked ballot of n < 30 selections (I've received some already), I think I'll use the average value of the first nth places listed in the original post (rounded down) for each selection. eg. 25 each for an unranked 15.

I don't wish to actively encourage this, tbh, as I'm lazy, but this seems fairer than using the flat 17 points mentioned up top for every situation.

So. Am I being stupid? Can someone tell me (and her) - how did Lazy Line Painter Jane get her name?

It’s a good question. I think the lyric refers to her just as ‘lazy jane’ before the ‘wondering how you got your name’ bit so maybe when it comes to her wondering, there’s no ‘line painter’ about it.

The video has her making mischief with a number of lines, starting with a Stevie Jackson’s yellow line painting in the road but who knows if all that was in SM’s mind when he wrote it.

I think LLPJ was the first B&S song I heard and I said something like “take this off; it sounds like Deacon Blue”

She is also, in SM's mind, 'Painter Jane', as noted in the sleeve notes (see the column to the right here), not just 'Lazy Jane'.

Latest in my "discoveries":

The first B&S release I didn't buy was the Step Into My Office Baby single. Only now do I find the absolute gem Desperation Made A Fool Of Me hidden away on the B-side. Can I squeeze this on?

you definitely should

I've been a good citizen and sent a ballot with 30 tracks :)

managed to narrow it down to 30 tracks, now comes the hard part

Man, the last quarter-or-so of Push Barman is a SLOG. Except for the hilarious “I Love My Car.”
― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 5:20 PM (six days ago)

only ever listened to these tracks in the context of the EPs, but I see that the last quarter of Push Barman also includes Jonathan David, Take Your Carriage Clock and Shove It, The Loneliness of a Middle Distance Runner, and I’m Waking Up to Us.

.

Jonathan David tuneless???
― brimstead, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 6:05 PM (six days ago) 
If anything it has too much tune
― brimstead, Tuesday, November 27, 2018 6:05 PM (six days ago)

ha ha. this is one of my favorite B&S songs. all three tracks on this record are nice

I’m Waking Up to Us is another one with a surfeit of chord changes

think Chinaski's Cat Stevens comparison for that one is right

ha ha. this is one of my favorite B&S songs. all three tracks on this record are nice

Bless. You better vote. :)

In other news...
Updated Fun Fact: 102 different tracks have now received votes.

This is tough.. I haven’t even gotten to their last couple records yet. But general consensus says they’ve been coasting since Life Pursuit. Gonna struggle through.

That stretch from “Expectations” to “I Could be Dreaming” on Tigermilk is an absolute murderer’s row.

"coasting since Life Pursuit" is absolutely not accurate

Write About Love and How To Solve Our Human Problems are pretty inconsistent but have some all-time highs in "I Didn't See It Coming" and "Sweet Dew Lee", listen to those two songs at the very least, and Girls in Peacetime is very solid, I easily prefer it to The Life Pursuit

"Coasting" probably isn't accurate, but I bet the poll results will show that most of the songs that resonate with fans happened before that. There are still some really well-written songs, but they're more of a fungible commodity in the post-Life-Pursuit era. That said, don't skip on checking out "Everything is now (part 2)".

Also, maybe it's just me, but I don't think that a single run through an album would give me a clear picture... my favorite tracks often end up being different than the ones I liked on the first pass.
(disclaimer: the first time I heard "The Loneliness of the Middle Distance Runner" I loved it immediately and haven't revised that opinion. so i guess sometimes it is dead obvious.)

I bet the poll results will show that most of the songs that resonate with fans happened before that.

Sure, but it's always pretty much impossible to tell whether this is just because those are the songs we heard when it was new and we were receptive, or some intrinsic quality in the songs. Can we please be objective? No, ha ha.

That said, don't skip on checking out "Everything is now (part 2)".

Yep – that and Fickle Season have found their way on to this old timer's ballot.

"Same Star" is my fave from those EPs, but I need to give em another crack before I vote.

Finished the discography now and beginning a final run-through before submission.

Girls in Peacetime really is terrific, so full of ideas - and good ones too - think it will find a place on my LPs ballot for sure.

Not impressed with How to Solve Our Human Problems though. Some tracks are quite novel-sounding, Cornflake in particular is one of the most unsettling, discordant things they've ever done, but it still sounds half-baked, just a seed that could possibly grow into something better. Other stuff - most of the third EP and Too Many Tears in particular - have this slick, characterless production which sucks all the life out of the songs, it's like the opposite of the church hall atmosphere they evoked early on.

"Same Star" is my fave from those EPs, but I need to give em another crack before I vote.

― resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, December 4, 2018 7:36 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm but again i love sarah martin

God damn I love the horn noodling in "I love my car"

I plan on voting in this, want to hear everything again first

feels like I could fill up a ballot with just the first and last tracks and title tracks from albums/EPs, so many of them are all-time great

Was reading this nytimes profile - learned that he credits a faith healer for part of his recovery, also that “Take Your Carriage Clock” was about Isobel?

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/magazine/28Murdoch-t.html

― JoeStork, Wednesday, November 28, 2018 5:08 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Forgot to say, thanks for this, led me down quite the rabbit hole of interviews. Think there could be a very good book (which probably shouldn't be written) about Stuart and Isobel's relationship and how it was reflected in the group's music from day one.

It'll be on the West End Stage before the decade is out.

I feel a bit bad for not including any Isobel songs in my ballot as I'm fond of It Wicked Not to Care? and Family Twee, but seeing as I've just shoved out Slow Graffiti it's a cruel world.

Talking of non-Stuart songs, my relistening has given me new respect for Chickfactor. I always dismissed it as a cringeworthy wide-eyed ‘wow, America’s so cool’ what i did on my holidays but now I hear it as an effective psychological portrait of feeling disoriented by keeping life back home in mind.

As long as he doesn't direct a film about it. (xp)

voted, ended up with the entirety of IYFS in my top 30, that album is just too solid

I had two IYFS tracks in my 30, one only just made it. Four Tigermilk tracks in my top ten.

My first Tigermilk track comes after 6 IYFS tracks.

Submitted!

Some perhaps slept-on tracks to consider (or which at least don't seem to have been discussed here) - Expectations from Tigermilk (obvious one, but I fear it might get left out), title track of Dear Catastrophe Waitress, Black and White Unite from Storytelling, and Suicide Girl, which is a bonus track from Write About Love.

Might throw a vote to the title track from "God Help the Girl." in its original recording from the pre-film album. Incredible string arrangement on that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAZOmYUh6wY

Reading that Times interview, this popped out:

“We lost a lot of the original fans when I stopped being miserable,” Murdoch told me recently.

But you know what? I never thought of this band as particularly miserable, certainly nowhere near the morose melancholia of Morrissey or especially Nick Drake (both referenced in the piece). There are definitely sad B&S songs, but the music is always so warm and welcoming and pretty that it's not exactly mired in misery. Stuff like (for example) Elliott Smith or Low, sure, I can see why people might be drawn to that music for its often strikingly raw bad vibes, but B&S to my ears has always been about as miserable as Vince Guaraldi's Peanuts theme.

I really like the title track of God Help the Girl, too. Couldn't squeeze it in, though.

How many ballots does it look like we might end up with?

Going through the catalogue has made me realise that I like Stuart's songs best when he sounds defeated, sad or just fatigued. I am a monster.

My ballot's in. Heavily weighted towards the early stuff, sorry. This poll made me listen to a lot of the last decade's material that I haven't really engaged with. And it's really good. But it just doesn't break through the wall of affection and awe I feel for the older records.

There are definitely sad B&S songs, but the music is always so warm and welcoming and pretty that it's not exactly mired in misery.

But maybe that's exactly the point, songs about joy and beauty are only truly compelling when the person writing and singing is secretly miserable

But maybe that's exactly the point, songs about joy and beauty are only truly compelling when the person writing and singing is secretly miserable

otm!! "i'm lucky i can open the door and i can walk down the street" set to the perkiest music imaginable

I had two IYFS tracks in my 30, one only just made it. Four Tigermilk tracks in my top ten.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, December 5, 2018 7:24 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

same ratio, more spread out

the barman singles ran away with my tracks list ofc

It's funny how tracks creep up on you. A week ago I didn't think I was going to include Put the Book Back on the Shelf but now it's completely essential and top half. The Songs for Children bit definitely helps.

I've already submitted so please stop posting names of songs I couldn't fit on there, it hurts me

We're really sorry for all the trouble we've caused.

It's funny how tracks creep up on you. A week ago I didn't think I was going to include Put the Book Back on the Shelf but now it's completely essential and top half. The Songs for Children bit definitely helps.

― Alba, Wednesday, December 5, 2018 10:22 AM

the whole 3.. 6.. 9 Seconds of Light EP is awesome!

So pretty happy with my submitted ballot. The first 24 aren't going to change between now and poll reveal. The final 6 could switch out interchangeably with about ten other tracks and I'd still be happy enough.

I think the top three I voted for are nailed on to make it, my fourth might not though!

the whole 3.. 6.. 9 Seconds of Light EP is awesome!

It really is! I considered putting three of the tracks on (never really liked the chorus of Beautiful so that one was out)

no "beautiful" is perfect!!!!!

Actually I don't even know if it's the chorus. I mean the 'beautiful only slightly mental' bit. And I don't much like it when SM does pat A-B rhymes like ill/pill, photography/pornography, and the orthopaedic shoes/fashion blues line really makes me wince.

But the "if you knew what's going on in her life" key change is lovely

sent my ballot!

And I don't much like it when SM does pat A-B rhymes like ill/pill, photography/pornography, and the orthopaedic shoes/fashion blues line really makes me wince.

he does it constantly! she had the knowledge to get her into college!

I know – it's quite bad. Maybe I don't like this band after all.

lol

I mean..

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/dec/05/belle-and-sebastian-indie-music-cruise-stuart-murdoch-plans-festival-at-sea-next-summer

Turns out the best way to listen to the Human Problems stuff is while doing data entry. Got a whole bunch of ballots overnight [GMT+10], and nearly every track is working for me now.

That's 20 ballots so far and... *checks again* 110 distinct tracks selected.

Through throwing myself into their catalog for this poll, I appreciate B&S way more than I did before. For years, I thought that If You're Feeling Sinister and Dear Catastrophe Waitress were all I needed from them - I still think those are the peaks of the two eras, but there's a lot of great songs scattered throughout the other albums. Even some songs I wrote off suddenly have an appeal they didn't before

I appreciate how "This is Just a Modern Love Song" builds.

This listening process has focused and dispelled a lot of ideas I'd had about B&S. First, that Murdoch is a martinet of a leader. There's a lot of push-and-pull and collaboration, and there's been less turnover in the band than I figured. On the one hand you've got songs (mostly earlier, but Nobody's Empire is a shining example) that focus on a Murdoch melody and his emotional buy-in (the "the very best songs, being ones important to the songwriter" songs). But rave ups like "Legal Man", where he disappears into the collective vision of the band are just as satisfying. There's some clumsy experiments that speak to less self-awareness, less irony that I took from them 20 years ago. And while the top 15 songs or so were easy for me to pick out, there's easily another 40 just a step below, with very bright spots on records I dismissed at the time.

I think you nailed it, really. On a song by song basis most of the band's output has been solid at least, exemplary at best. But in an album context even many of those solid songs don't always come off as well as they might have on, say, stuck on a b-sides comp.

Oh lord, thought I would do a one-time listen through Girls in Peacetime and see if anything jumped out before submitting - but it's too good! there's like three or four tracks I could see making my ballot, I need more time with this album

yeah, was my experience too

this time through The Party Line, The Cat with the Cream, and Today (This Army's for Peace) stood out, also Enter Sylvia Plath and The Everlasting Muse

Enter Sylvia Plath was the biggest one for me, like a lost Abba song or something

also, as mentioned multiple times above, Play for Today is great

Is this still due on Dec 10 or is it possible to push it back? They have many more ballot-worthy songs than I remembered.

i'm glad everyone loves my new favorite belle and sebastian album girls in peacetime want to dance

wish i could've found room for "power of three" on my ballot, that song is just gorgeous

Yeah that song is really nice too. I think Sarah's vocals have gotten noticeably better every record

Is this still due on Dec 10 or is it possible to push it back?

It's possible to push it back a tiny bit. Though I really want to roll it out way before Xmas. If folks are still struggling once 11:59 PM 10 December has passed in every timezone, I'll certainly wait for any stragglers. But hopefully no more than a day or two...

That's 20 ballots so far and... *checks again* 110 distinct tracks selected.

Just sent mine. Am sort oh hoping and sort of not hoping that I've brought the distinct-track count up.

I think you might have increased it. :) Though I was pleased to finally gain some company re at one least of your selections.

Total count is apparently now 117 tracks.

Enter Sylvia Plath was the biggest one for me, like a lost Abba song or something

didn't make my 30 but yes this jumped out at me too

sent!

This is old news, but SJ's thoughts on the relative merits of their long-players makes for a curiously dour piece in places.

https://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/article/kzgqj9/rank-your-records-belle-and-sebastian-guitarist-stevie-jackson

that Sylvia Plath number is long!

Stevie's ranking in that Noisey article aren't too far off the mark (well, aren't too far off my ballot). He does seem to rank them more on how fun they were to make rather than how good the music is, but it's interesting that there's a correlation.

To be truly honest with you, when we finished this I thought, "Well, we got to make a better one than this," but the next few years of our records just got worse and worse. I was definitely disappointed about the whole thing because I knew we could have been much better. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and I think we made some great records. I think this became the favorite because we followed up with stuff that wasn't as good.

(SJ on Sinister)

Nag! i have a v. important exam on Monday, i was wondering if I could have an extension on the exam on the poll, would just need an extra day. I have my 30 selections now it's just a question of ordering them.

Arbitrarily ordered, drunkitly SENT

Actually not that arbitrary, in the final cull it became clear that I cannot objectively evaluate these songs, they are far too connected to my life and where I was in my life and how I felt about my life then and I make no apologies for this ballot with the first song I heard by them at number one and nothing past DCW anywhere. Like, I listened through the catalogue for this and it was all... fine. But we parted ways some time around 2005, like Christopher Robin and Pooh, we no longer needed each other but that doesn't invalidate the times we spent together...

This post brought to you by Glen's, "The Exciting Vodka".

my experience too! I love Dear Catastrophe Waitress and Girls in Peacetime, but I've already got about 25 songs I feel connected to from the earlier albums/EPs that I don't think I can leave off my ballot

That's fine, VHS. I won't close the gate on any ballots for the sake of an arbitrary deadline. Any time early-ish next week is fine, in reality. Whatever people can manage, within reason. Just reluctant to name a later date, as things have a habit of dragging themselves out. :)

i regret not voting for “the cat with the cream”

put that on barman and watch yourself not notice

It's OK I voted for it

it’s so beautiful thank you

think I am settling on 3 songs from Girls in Peacetime, but there are two others that just missed the ballot. should have known I would like this album if it's Brad's favorite

I entered my own votes on the first day so I wasn't tempted to vote strategically and have managed to restrict myself to slight tinkering with the order. But today I found I could no longer resist giving some points to "There's Too Much Love". Amazing really that I barely registered its existence around the turn of the century, let alone acknowledged it as the highlight that it is.

Absolutely superb cut

yeah agreed, and it actually snuck onto my ballot at the last minute too

Sneak Into My Ballot, Baby.

love that this poll made me realize how crucial colburn is to their sound and also to the successful expansion of their sound. he's one of the main reasons girls in peacetime works at all. also the drumbeat for "i didn't see it coming" is all-time

I’m not submitting a ballot, but I must say relistening to all these albums makes me really appreciate this band all over again. They’re really fucking good songwriters! Why do so many people hate this band so much?

Just voted

Why do so many people hate this band so much?

There have been a few comments floating around on here, along the lines of 'that twee cunt' etc. It always feels like we're not far from other, more, ah, vicious insults.

28 ballots received so far. Y'all have done rather well given this wasn't even on the upcoming polls list this time two weeks ago.

Plenty of time of left if you're still deliberating...

i will definitely be sending a ballot

Still making my last few tough cuts, will be submitting later today

when are the ballots due again?

i just tried playing "dirty dream #2" while singing and am ready to play out when we have ilx B&S nite

I originally said the end of 10th December (in Alaska (?) or wherever GMT-12 timezone is), which is itself well over 48 hours away. But if people are still tinkering towards the middle of the week I've promised to wait till they're done. Bigger ballot pool > punctuality.

Calculating the final results will take only a few seconds after that, but I probably need a day or two to cater for the tracks at the start of the countdown, which are currently, er, oscillating wildly with every new ballot. (The whole list is in flux really: almost nothing is more than a few points clear of its rivals. Later contributors can still make a big difference.)

My ballot will be in on the 10th. I meant to spend this time listening to the material I was less familiar with but, finally catching up with DCW aside, I've mostly gotten hung up on listening to the I already knew and loved but hadn't heard in a long time.

"almost nothing is more than a few points clear of its rivals"

because there are so many outstanding ones. it's really hard to choose between them

sent! could go on revising forever though

I'm tempted to draw up an alternative top 30. I bet it's nearly as good.

I feel like a good (possibly the best) ballot would just be everything from the first two albums and first three EPs, in by order. Minus a track.

Voted. No spoilers, but my number one is a track from the past 3 years.

also voted

voted

Ooooh, just noticed these (and more, possibly) juicy new ballots in my mailbox. This is feeling like a pretty strong turnout overall. Fab.

Ballot sent

I meant to spend this time listening to the material I was less familiar with but, finally catching up with DCW aside, I've mostly gotten hung up on listening to the I already knew and loved but hadn't heard in a long time.

Same

Voted

Big shake-up in my spreadsheet recent votes. A few tracks have shot up 20-or-so places and the top ten has thoroughly jiggled itself about. Fascinating.

That's 36 votes now, and 128 tracks selected.

I've taken a liking to crytosicko's "We're not terrific, but we're com-POLL-tent" as a rollout thread title. Further puntastic suggestions are encouraged.

'AFTER recent votes", geez.

When is the official deadline?

I've promised to wait until at least Tuesday. So...within the next 48 hours or so would be good.

nice,

I know POLL puns are de rigueur for rollout thread titles but "Could we please be objective?" would be highly appropriate

Yes, I like it!

If I could do just one near perfect poll I'd be happy

get me away from here, i'm POLL-ing

Could we please be objective cause the other POLLS are queuing up behind us.

lol

that's perfect lmao

I really like Stevie but so far the poll I'm working on doesn't seem to reflect it. I think my top for him is "Jonathan David" at #12.

This is the most excited I've been for a poll roll-out in a long while. I wouldn't bet on any more than like 5 songs being definitely making the top 30.

XP: I'm in similar situation re Stevie.

Actually, if "Jonathan David" doesn't end up placing in the top 30-40-50-whatever, I may have to start the countdown from wherever it ends up. I'll *make* it 'place', dammit! LOL. It's interesting how divisive that song (and Stevie himself?) seems to be; always imagined its brilliance was self-evident.

I think the problem with Stevie is that he fancies himself a folky 70s singer-songwriter guy, which I'll have none of. But when he's there as a counterpoint to Stuart, he's completely on it and I can't love it enough.

'to be myself completely' is peak stevie imo

Could we please be objective cause the other POLLS are queuing up behind us.

― Alba, Monday, December 10, 2018 12:39 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a thousand times this

I did not like "Jonathan David" until around the 37th listen. I was DJ'ing when it came out, and upon playing it without previewing, my first reaction of "what is this mess?" The logic of its 37 sections makes perfect sense now. At first it felt like a trailer for Forever Changes.

"Jonathan David" in the top 10 for me

'to be myself completely' is peak stevie imo

yup, the only stevie track that made my ballot

I just sent a revised ballot if you dinnae plug in my first ballot from 2.5 hours earlier

In 2001/2002 I found a bunch of rare B&S (or pre-B&S) on audiogalaxy. I remember a cool cover of a Spanish song with a title something like mina ména (obviously way off). I also remember a cool 6-7 minute instrumental number.

one night extension here as well, just got in from work travel.

Are you sure it was them? I seem to remember there was a lot of mislabeled stuff on Audiogalaxy.

xpost

mina ména (obviously way of

Was it this Os Mutantes cover?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGfT3qg6p_Y

yes

Looks like a consensus is emerging re thread title. Nice!

FlopsyDuck: I was asleep when your emails arrived, but revisions are easy either way. Actually, I'm still happy to adjust week-old ballots if others want it.

campreverb: rightio!

Amusing that I initially said that "I thought there was mainly antipathy [to B&S] on ILX, but it seems that's not necessarily the case." With a few ballots still promised we might even approach...50.

Way before my time on ILX but I understand that there were a sizeable group of ex-Sinister people on here, enthusiasm on one side led to a backlash from others, an unspoken truce was declared where nobody talked much about b+s because it was still contentious and anyway people had moved on, and then after another decade and a half here we are

This is... much harder than initially thought. About 80% done, already pushing 40 tracks.

Ok, nearly done but almost forgot that I know one of the people in their songs (friend of SM's wife). Here he is dragging her out to dance on her eponymous song around 3:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XIWLMgXJBY

Better angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vazADLsUSiQ

mad how much i love that song but still couldn't fit into a top thirty, what a catalogue!

Ballot submitted!!! I didn’t think I had it in me.

Awesome! But was that emailed? I don't seem to have received anything half an hour later...

got it...just need to clean up for the poll runner.
cutting to 30 was brutal. surprisingly found I like the weird stuff like a century of elvis/beyond the sunrise.

i like beyond the sunrise too (although it should have been placed on an ep, i think, because it doesn't really fit in with anything else)

i'm going to finish up my ballot tonight. i'll probably be one of those lame ones that stick mainly to the earlier material, but i did discover/rediscover several newer songs through this poll that will make it as well!

Fun fact: The love has been fairly well distributed in ballots. If you leave aside some of the film score snippets and the demo-only stuff, the pre-hiatus material that HASN'T yet received any votes seems to amount to one (!) album track and a few mid-00's b-sides. And the coverage is only slightly patchier post-2010.

speaks to the amazing depth of their discography

voted! (hopefully)
"The Rollercoaster Ride" moved up my rankings every time I looked at it, eventually landing in the top 5.

I also voted! My ballot mostly is mostly filled with earlier stuff, but I did include some tracks from the past few albums. I never really made it through Human Problems though.

i still haven't voted, i still am very sorry, and i still promise to get my ballot in today

Okay, I think we're just waiting for Karl Malone and Van Horn Street now. :)

I need to go out for perhaps six hours and then I've have a look at how things are going. Any other ballots that might arrive in that period will be happily tabulated too, of course.

Incidentally, if anyone sent one at any stage and didn't get a reply, then something has gone awry!

sent!

i kept dropping "dylan in the movies" down a bit during the long piano solo in the middle of the song, but then bumping it back during the "If we all went back to another time / I will love you over" section

so uh, does anyone know a band that has instrumental twee that sounds like belle and sebastian? or even a soft voice on top of chamber music that sounds like stuff belle and sebastian could of made?

Nick Drake?

Camera Obscura?

Damien Jurado?

commercials for health insurance for dogs?

SM literally produced Camera Obscura, so

The Left Banke.

about to send!

^ Which makes it...50 ballots!

that's so great! I haven't participated in a lot of these polls, but that seem like a lot

So psyched for this

Voted!

Room for one more?

Yep!

Also: did Van Horn Street survive his/her exam?

So excited to see the results of this. I voted early, without listening back to any of their music. Ever since I've been on a nonstop B&S listening kick, listened back through all of it. There's definitely some songs I should have voted for, but no looking back.

^ Similar here. I was just thinking before that my most persistent earworms this week were things like "Poor Boy", "Come On Sister", "Didn't See It Coming" and "Power of Three", none of which were even close to being on my list. They could probably sustain a career on their second and third tier songs alone.

Okay, I'll start closing this now.

I'll take what I have to be the final numbers for the albums and EPs (the order, at least, looks to be quite stable now anyway) and get that ready for the countdown thread. I might be able to start that as early as late evening, my time. (Perhaps midday GMT)

If Van Horn Street still has a tracks ballot to submit, hopefully I'll see that in the next few hours.

Results thread:

Could we please be objective cause the other POLLS are queuing up behind us - Artist Poll #94 - Belle & Sebastian - RESULTS

"she's losing it" is a song about me imo

i KNEW this song was a root