Morrissey is a racist

See above.

who?

Morrissey

not ringing any bells

https://i.imgur.com/6pzFKLv.jpg

i still enjoy the music of morrissey and feel conflicted. has ilx ever discussed this sort of moral dilemma before?

no

he was in that one band, kind of like a goth Aztec Camers

Yes, he definitely is.

Bill Morrissey, as he is known professionally, is one of New England’s best singer-songwriters.

http://home.bt.com/images/terry-wogan-at-eurovision-136404222879110401-160223153133.jpg

thank you jim, you are the hero of ilx

I think he was Johnny marrs singer, aka the guy who played guitar for the the. I guess he had a band before that

Johnny Mars from Modest Mouse?

No, Johnny Mars from Motley Crue, iirc.

Great, You caught one.

Like shooting f ish in a oxygen bar,
re a lly.

Long Tim Jonze article in Guardian today

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/may/30/bigmouth-strikes-again-morrissey-songs-loneliness-shyness-misfits-far-right-party-tonight-show-jimmy-fallon

the url gives me the gist

Every time this happens there’s always a dozen articles with the title “bigmouth strikes again”, if only the smiths had done a song called “very stupid cunt keeps shitting himself let’s talk about it”

I'd gladly read that Tim Jonze long read if he was offering a $1 per word.

“the morrissey you, the further away i get”

xxxp it does. the article is 90% rehashing, but includes bits from a couple of interviews with Asian artists, also interesting to see how he has tried to manage all of this using lawyers but appears to have given up.

Around the time he sued NME, Morrissey forced the Word magazine into an apology over a review that said he was “paying lip service to anti-racism while talking like an old Tory immigration spokesman”

Why in the world would they apologize for that basic statement of fact

Because libel law in the UK is ridiculous and Morrissey likes to have his lawyers send out threatening letters and as far as editors are concerned it isn't worth the hassle?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/may/30/bigmouth-strikes-again-morrissey-songs-loneliness-shyness-misfits-far-right-party-tonight-show-jimmy-fallon

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, May 30, 2019 8:07 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I am just so glad that Morrissey isn't doing Misfits covers.

Because libel law in the UK is ridiculous and Morrissey likes to have his lawyers send out threatening letters and as far as editors are concerned it isn't worth the hassle?

Obviously! Although the statement was about as inarguable as "Morrissey has hair."

why is it always the worst ones who have hair?

Wow at the idea that what's being criticized about "Bengali in Platforms" is its "tone."

very stupid (la-di-da da-da)
very stupid (la-di-di-daaa)

wins, I think this could work

why is it always the worst ones who have hair?

Moz pretty clearly tolerates a certain amount of immigration to his scalp.

Irish Hair, English Arsehole

Yes, but was he a racist?

Was, is, and ever shall be

The past is a different country, but Morrissey is still racist there.

I just feel bad for all the people who named their cats Steven Meowrissey

He has tweeted someone's blog post in defense of himself. It's all about veganism and shaking things up, you idiots:

In his open support for the party For Britain , (which seems to have caused the most controversy in recent years) Morrissey has explained his admiration for the party leader's (Anne Marie Water) vegan lifestyle and huge dedication to animal protection. He has long expressed how he is tired of the same two political groups running the game again and again, he wants to see a shake up in politics, as many of us do. Much of the criticism levelled at Morrissey's endorsement of For Britain stems from accusations that the party are either “racist” or “anti-Islam” (a meaningless claim when you consider that even some ex-Muslims openly support the party, and they have members of all backgrounds).

It goes on.

https://www.tremr.com/Fiona-Dodwell/the-guardian-and-the-morrissey-vendetta

“racist” or “anti-Islam” (a meaningless claim when you consider that even some ex-Muslims openly support the party, and they have members of all backgrounds)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

Any actual Muslims support this non-racist, non-Islamophoboc party?

so wait, morrissey's argument here is literally "hitler was a vegetarian"?

what's his backup argument, "hitler was a sensitive man"?

Hitler was a lesbian.

Some guy named 4chan said Hitler did nothing wrong.

Also, can we start a new thread titled 'Morrissey is a fascist'?

He could say Hitler was right to kill the Jews and legions of his fans would defend him and claim he's misunderstood.

... and that's no joke btw.

ol' Moz bringin' out the Godwin's law on ilx, gotta love it

what's his backup argument, "hitler was a sensitive man"?

Charming man

TS: Steven Patrick Morrissey vs Mikko Aspa

Godwin himself approves a common sense exception to invoking his law when ppl are discussing actual confirmed white supremacists tbfttl

By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.

— Mike Godwin (@sfmnemonic) August 14, 2017

so pleased to finally meet you Mike...I've invoked your name countless times on message borads over the decades....

ol' Moz bringin' out the Godwin's law on ilx, gotta love it

Who asked you?

https://images.eil.com/large_image/THE_SMITHS_ASK%2B-%2BUNIQUE%2BGREEN%2BTINTED%2BSLEEVE-448777b.jpg

Much of the criticism levelled at Morrissey's endorsement of For Britain stems from accusations that the party are either “racist” or “anti-Islam” (a meaningless claim when you consider that even some ex-Muslims openly support the party

this might be the dumbest sentence I've ever seen

Much of the criticism levelled at Morrissey's endorsement of Darth Vader stems from accusations that he is either “a sith" or “anti-jedi” (a meaningless claim when you consider that even some ex-jedis openly support his reign of terror)

Defensive Morrissey Fans Take Gold In Mental Gymnastics

“Morrissey supporters are passionate enough to weather anything he says — they will make a quick Facebook post denouncing him, but still excitedly buy a ticket to see him live just minutes later,” said panel member Lorena Bosko. “I mean, less than two years ago, he victim-blamed Kevin Spacey’s accusers, criticized multiculturalism, and voiced his support of Brexit, all in the same interview… and his last album still charted!”

...

At press time, the ICPF announced that the mental gymnastics silver medal was awarded to fans of Chris Brown for the third year in a row, while the fans of Jake Paul were disqualified for all being under 16 and therefore too young for consideration.

Eh, I don't see any real contradiction in denouncing someone's actions or comments and still appreciating their artistic work.

Yes, worse to defend his comments and actions - which plenty of them do.

This should put any accusations to rest. https://youtu.be/tuEwsB_7Nm0

I still think this thread should be renamed "Morrissey's a racist, Morrissey's a racist, la la la la, la la la la.."

omg that dude's channel is ridiculous

long live buff correl

Confirmed:

Morrissey rethinks the personal and political power of pop music on California Son. https://t.co/QJSneKudaC #Morrissey #BobDylan #BryanFerry

— armond white (@3xchair) June 5, 2019

oh armondpaws

"Defending the recent controversy roused by performing his covers while wearing a pro-Brexit “For Britain” badge, political artist Morrissey recently insisted that"

It is not a "pro-Brexit" badge, it's a "pro-racism" badge. Nice try though Armand.

describing 'national front disco' as 'uniquely stirring' is some god-tier trolling

In his open support for the party For Britain , (which seems to have caused the most controversy in recent years) Morrissey has explained his admiration for the party leader's (Anne Marie Water) vegan lifestyle and huge dedication to animal protection.

want to vote for a party with a vegetarian leader? at the last uk general election, you had jeremy corbyn, tim farron and jonathan bartley to choose from and the last of whom is i think now vegan. the green party had explicit animal welfare policies in their manifesto. the labour party have a vegan mp (kerry mccarthy). pretending that amw is a lone voice for animals in uk politics is total bollocks

There was some Animal Welfare party dropping leaflets 'round my area and they were explicitly anti-Brexit because they believe animal rights legislation will suffer w/o EU restrictions.

yes, that too

i dunno guys, i get this horrible nagging feeling that morrissey might actually be a little bit racist

and also that his stance against non-vegetarians is subject to negotiations: Dave Bowie got a black look, TommyYargMcSweeney gets a mild shake of head.

milkshake on the head surely?

doesn't sound like Morrissey, no.

a milkshake on the head
well, a nation turns its back and gags

I don't know if anyone else saw this, but there was a BBC Four documentary on recently which was examining fandom/tribalism etc. in music since rock'n'roll began. Eventually the subject turned to The Smiths and how they touched those who felt like outsiders or marginalised, and two incredibly devoted Smiths/Morrissey fans were interviewed and showed off their collection of memorabilia. One was a black woman who found inspiration in The Smiths and moved to Manchester and decided to aspire to university even though she initially didn't feel capable of it. Another guy was of Asian descent and showed off his setlists/pictures of him with Morrissey/autographs etc.

I'm guessing that this was filmed quite some time back, so the issue of Morrissey's racism wasn't touched upon, but I wouldn't be surprised if these fans felt more than a little crushed or even betrayed by Morrissey's post-2004 actions.

Or maybe they'd find some way to justify it.

We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful

You're the One for Me, Fatty

Everyone Ultimately Prefers Their Own Race

— Limmy (@DaftLimmy) June 26, 2019

Asked by Rayner why he has not sued The Guardian, who were among the titles to publish critical articles about him in the aftermath, Morrissey said: “As a so-called entertainer, I have no human rights… apparently… because you put yourself ‘out there’. If I were a postman I would have won a Harassment Case against The Guardian and been awarded 10 million pounds in damages by now.”

Later, he added: “The Guardian have pestered and relentlessly harassed musicians in my life urging them not to work with me again[…] In these days of casual knife crime and hurling of acid, you’d expect The Guardian to maintain a certain careful morality. But no. If I suffered physical harm as a direct result of the Guardian’s tyranny, you can imagine cheers and champagne exploding through their offices… it chills the blood. The Guardian fully believes it is a political party.”

Just because you're paranoid...

“As a so-called entertainer, I have no human rights… apparently… because you put yourself ‘out there’. If I were a postman I would have won a Harassment Case against The Guardian and been awarded 10 million pounds in damages by now.”

a so-called entertainer

otm

"as an entertainer, I have no human rights"

*lawyer whispers urgently in his ear*

"as a SO-CALLED entertainer, i have" etc

sing this inna Morrissey Smiths stylee and it actually works

If I were a postman
I would have won a Harassment Case against The Guardian
And been awarded 10 million pounds in damages by now

and if a champagne bottle
exploded in the offices of the guardian
to die by your side
....

(To the intro of Speedway)

And when you SLAM down the champagne...can you hear the Guardian cheer?
All human rights keeping me protected - they don’t apply, don’t apply
To so-called enterTAINers

racism can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to

on the nose I know, but..

I am glad you started there rather than at "racism is nice but"

moz has sided with the bomb

Interpol’s Paul Banks on Touring With Morrissey: “A Good Show for Our Band”

No, Paul. No.

“That’s how I’m looking at it. I don’t get too much into the other stuff.”

https://pitchfork.com/news/interpol-paul-banks-on-touring-with-morrissey-a-good-show-for-our-band/

Morrissey is a racist and this Interpol guy is a fucking dimwit.

no one tell wcc

re: moz ,,,,,, that joke isn't funny anymore

that jerk isn't funny anymore

Looked up the old "should Morrissey have Pj Harvey supporting him?" controversy and found some guy being racist on the thread
https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/p-j-harvey-fox-hunting-bitch.37392/

well my day is worse for reading that

Read bits of this too, I'm too lazy to read the whole thing
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/02/today-thoughts-for-the-day-pj-harvey-bbc-assange-pilger

Billy Bragg is on your side
But you lose
Cause Interpol is on mine

https://i.imgur.com/gvT2KBv.jpg

Stolen from facebook. Not a real single (or quote)

chapeau to whoever knocked that together

Morrissey hasn't let himself go yet

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/views-on-morrissey/

When I listen to a beloved song – Neil Young’s ‘On the Beach’, for instance – I feel, at my very core, that that song is speaking to me and to me alone, that I have taken possession of that song exclusively

Haha no kidding - you rereleased it as Higgs Boson Blues...

Wild that Nick did Cosmic Dancer live recently. I would love to have been there to hear that.

What a pompous narcissist he sounds in that blog entry.

The weirdest/funniest thing about this Morrissey thing is how he keeps saying worse and worse things, in contexts where he has more and more control (i.e. getting interview for his own site by his own bloody nephew), and then he just denies/seems oblivious to what he's said. How can someone say something like "Everyone prefers their own race" - as basic as racist statements get - and then come out harrumphing and threatening to sue when he's called out on it?

I think Morrissey's views do change his songs of the past, now that we know they were written from the point of view of a racist.

How Soon Is Now, for example, is about a guy not able to pull cos he's a racist. An incel anthem, if you think about it. https://t.co/TKp7h5aIex

— Limmy (@DaftLimmy) June 29, 2019

Now when I think of Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want, I realise now it's written from the point of view of a teary eyed racist incel, bubbling cos he's not racist but.

— Limmy (@DaftLimmy) June 29, 2019

What a twist. I've said it before, but it's like The Sixth Sense. I want to listen to the songs all over again from this fresh perspective.

— Limmy (@DaftLimmy) June 29, 2019

Whatever inanities he may postulate

🙄

"a push and a rush and the land is ours": https://www.patreon.com/posts/other-jacksons-18720007

(when i complete this editing job -- which is in fact abt UK DJs and why we shd celebrate them and not hang them -- i will post some more very good content: so plz subscribe to help that happen)

My takeaway from that is that Nick Cave blog post is that he's encouraging people to pirate Morrissey's music.

Xpost mark s that is a really great piece

thx dude :)

yeah that's really good

Those songs were always expressing the pov of an isolated misanthrope, who knows he turns people off. That their author is a racist, which was clear enough to me since I first bought an album titled Viva Hate and heard the song titled "Bengali in Platforms", doesn't change their meaning that much for me.

I read it some time ago and want to join the chorus of praise for Mark's piece.

Like, this would probably make "Girlfriend in a Coma" more innocent:

Girlfriend in a comma is totally about cutting funds to the nhs too when you think about it

— McGarvey (@McGarvito) June 29, 2019

https://www.facebook.com/billybraggofficial/posts/10156047846402471

posting here for posterity, also Bragg makes some great points:

"Last Sunday, while much of the British media were lauding Stormzy’s Glastonbury headline show as epoch defining, Morrissey posted a white supremacist video on his website, accompanied by the comment ‘Nothing But Blue Skies for Stormzy...The Gallows for Morrissey’. The nine minute clip lifted footage from the grime star’s Pyramid Stage performance while arguing that the British establishment are using him to promote multiculturalism at the expense of white culture.

The YouTube channel of the video’s author contains other clips expressing , among other things, homophobia, racism and misogyny - left wing women of colour are a favourite target for his ire. There are also clips expounding the Great Replacement Theory, a far right conspiracy trope which holds that there is a plot of obliterate the white populations of Europe and North America through mass immigration and cultural warfare.

My first thought was to wonder what kind of websites Morrissey must be trawling in order to be able to find and repost this clip on the same day that it appeared online? I came home from Glastonbury expecting to see some angry responses to his endorsement of white supremacism. Instead, the NME published an interview with Brandon Flowers in which the Killers lead singer proclaimed that Morrissey was still “a king”, despite being in what Flowers recognised was “hot water” over his bigoted comments.

As the week progressed, I kept waiting for some reaction to the white supremacist video, yet none was forthcoming. Every time I googled Morrissey, up would pop another article from a music website echoing the NME’s original headline: ‘The Killers Brandon Flowers on Morrissey: ‘He’s Still A King’. I’m well aware from personal experience how easy it is for an artist to find something you’ve said in the context of a longer discourse turned into an inflammatory headline that doesn’t reflect your genuine views on the subject at hand, but I have to wonder if Flowers really understands the ramifications of Morrissey’s expressions of support for the far right For Britain Party?

As the writer of the powerful Killers song ‘Land of the Free’, does he know that For Britain wants to build the kind of barriers to immigration that Flowers condemns in that lyric?
Party leader Anne Marie Walters maintains ties with Generation Identity, the group who both inspired and received funds from the gunman who murdered 50 worshippers at a Christchurch mosque. How does that sit with the condemnation of mass murder by lone gunman in ‘Land of the Free’?

As an explicitly anti-Muslim party, For Britain opposes the religious slaughter of animals without the use of a stun gun, a policy that has given Morrissey a fig leaf of respectability, allowing him to claim he supports them on animal welfare grounds. Yet if that is his primary concern, why does he not support the UK’s Animal Welfare Party, which stood candidates in the recent European elections?

Among their policies, the AWF also aim to prohibit non-stun slaughter. If his only interest was to end this practice, he could have achieved this without the taint of Islamophobia by endorsing them. They are a tiny party, but Morrissey’s vocal support would have given the animal rights movement a huge boost of publicity ahead of the polls.

Instead, he expresses support for anti-Muslim provocateurs, posts white supremacist videos and, when challenged, clutches his pearls and cries “Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me”. His recent claim that “as a so-called entertainer, I have no rights” is a ridiculous position made all the more troubling by the fact that it is a common trope among right-wing reactionaries.

The notion that certain individuals are not allowed to say certain things is spurious, not least because it is most often invoked after they’ve made their offensive comments. Look closely at their claims and you’ll find that what they are actually complaining about is the fact that they have been challenged.

The concept of freedom pushed by the new generation of free speech warriors maintains that the individual has the right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want, with no comeback. If that is the definition of freedom, then one need look no further than Donald Trump’s Twitter feed as our generation’s beacon of liberty. Perhaps Lady Liberty should be replaced in New York Harbour with a colossal sculpture of the Donald, wearing a toga, holding a gaslight.

Worryingly, Morrissey’s reaction to being challenged over his support of For Britain, his willingness to double down rather than apologise for any offence caused, suggests a commitment to a bigotry that tarnishes his persona as the champion of the outsider. Where once he offered solace to the victims of a cruel and unjust world, he now seems to have joined the bullies waiting outside the school gates.

As an activist, I’m appalled by this transformation, but as a Smiths fan, I’m heartbroken.

It was Johnny Marr’s amazing guitar that drew me to the band, but I grasped that Morrissey was an exceptional lyricist when I heard ‘Reel Around the Fountain’. Ironically, it was a line that he had stolen that won my affections. “I dreamt about you last night and I fell out of bed twice” is spoken by Jimmy, the black sailor, to his white teenage lover, Jo, in Sheila Delaney’s play ‘A Taste of Honey’.

The 1961 movie, starring Rita Tushingham was an early example of a post-war British society that would embrace multi-racial relationships (and homosexuality too). By pilfering that particular line for the song, Morrissey was placing the Smiths in the great tradition of northern working class culture that may have been in the gutter, but was looking at the stars. Yet, by posting a white supremacist video in which he is quoted as saying “Everyone prefers their own race”, Morrissey undermines that line, erasing Jo and Jimmy and all those misfit lovers to whom the Smiths once gave so much encouragement.

A week has passed since the video appeared on Morrissey’s website and nothing has been written in the media to challenge his position. Today it was reported that research by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, a UK based anti-extremist organisation, reveals that the Great Replacement Theory is being promoted so effectively by the far right that it is entering mainstream political discourse.

That Morrissey is helping to spread this idea - which inspired the Christchurch mosque murderer - is beyond doubt. Those who claim that this has no relevance to his stature as an artist should ask themselves if, by demanding that we separate the singer from the song, they too are helping to propagate this racist creed."

https://i.redd.it/xt8zs1vzapc21.jpg

Jesus ppl yeah Moz DEFINITELY the only one of that lot who's ever trafficked in suspect politics

I'm a little sad they didn't use a picture of Siouxsie rocking a swastika

siouxsie is an excellent example of someone the specifics of whose dabbling was v swiftly and firmly taken to task by the UK music press at the time -- i can't claim she mended her heart bcz i don't have the correct levels of access but she certainly mended her public ways

the only nazi to ever sample schoolly d

yeah lol @ Siouxsie and Ian Curtis inclusion

I don't know who three of those artists are. I am not a Goth.

if the diagram were purely a quilt of unproblematic goths* then the exclusion of morrissey would have no sting: it has to be saying "even these often quite bad ppl are forgiven, but not you buddy, no you"**

*this adjective possibly creates a category error
** also it wd allow him merely to say (like Οὖτις and tom before him) "but i'm no goth!"

(of course he is and so are they, and here we are)

"joy division"

my guess is the 3 you don't recognise are Alien Sex Fiend, 45 Grave & Christian Death

xps

he was in all of them

btw lol @ Christian Death, they can fuck off forever

(I agree with mark's reading of this btw, I just hate Christian Death)

(xxxp) I think you're right.

the 80's were just a more permissible, less PC time. Everyone rocked swastikas. Most people wore blackface. It was legal and expected to murder Jews in the streets. You can't judge a person by the times they live in!

Ironically, Christian Death did end up on the right side of history with their condemnation of the Catholic church, which landed them in very hot waters back in the 80s. Although their fascination with necrophilia still remains beyond the pale I guess.

the only nazi to ever sample schoolly d

kiSS them for me

Unproblematic Goths = great band name

mark s at 10:30 8 Jul 19

if the diagram were purely a quilt of unproblematic goths* then the exclusion of morrissey would have no sting: it has to be saying "even these often quite bad ppl are forgiven, but not you buddy, no you"**

*this adjective possibly creates a category error 
** also it wd allow him merely to say (like Οὖτις and tom before him) "but i'm no goth!"

(of course he is and so are they, and here we are)

.... seen this shared on Facebook a bunch and you are drastically overestimating how this is interpreted by most people and likely the intent as well

you are drastically overestimating how this is interpreted by most people

i can absolutely promise i have spent literally no time contemplating or adjusting for how anything is interpreted by "most people" on facebook and do not plan to start

and likely the intent

ok but all yr saying here is: "assuming the nonsensically dumb reading, in conclusion this is nonsensically dumb"

it's a meme created for Facebook! that's where it circulated, it's like saying it's not worth considering how a tv audience will interpret a tv show

and I don't even think people are dumb, I don't think that many people really know about Curtis's politics or the old Souixsie Nazi stuff

Curtis voted Tory, which is worse than being a play Nazi in 1979

it's not worth considering how a tv audience will interpret a tv show

agree

Curtis voted Tory, which is worse than being a play Nazi in 1979

So did Harold Pinter btw. I suspect a lot of people did who wouldn't admit it later on.

yeah when I see folks on Facebook talking about the Bragg thing most are like, aw, does this mean I have to stop listening to the smiths ? In that context the meme almost implies if you cancel morrissey you don’t have to think about the systemic issues

I don't think that many people really know about Curtis's politics or the old Souixsie Nazi stuff

it's probably true that many people don't know either of these things! and there's certainly no good reason not to continue to point them out whenever there's an opportunity, and now is as good an opportunity as any

but lol these dudes clearly didn't know these facts bcz their meme makes no sense if they did is not a sustainable claim, bcz
(a) it works perfectly well if this knowledge is in fact assumed, and
(b) it actually works somewhat better
(c) i can't actually really see how the joke -- and the spite of the joke -- is intended to land if you assume they didn't know this? it just dissolves into "here's the type of music we actually like! lol the music morrissey is bad and different and we hate him, also he's cancelled". which ok, maybe that is all that's going on! but if so we're back at "assuming the nonsensically dumb reading, in conclusion this is nonsensically dumb"

god lol why am i wasting so much brain on this badly executed barely funny meme?

ans = i am meant to be writing a ticklishly important job application due end tomorrow and so far i haven't really started on it

Morrissey vs. 15 amphetamine-addled freaks: whose side are you on?

relevant: The Ian Curtis memorial thread

ans = i am meant to be writing a ticklishly important job application due end tomorrow and so far i haven't really started on it

― mark s, Tuesday, July 9, 2019 9:42 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol not even joking but...me too!

here's where i got to since that post: Quick answer - job application help.

and solidarity and best of luck! what a world we live in

good luck to you mark :)

i like to think that you're both applying for morrissey's job now that he's been cancelled

Who is the band on bottom centre?

Really need to get around to that second Christian Death album sometime.

I think I read Siouxsie talk about the swastika but not sure. Also heard she fell out with Morrissey over him wanting to use a british bulldog+flag in their music video and she said she loathed the idea, hated the gross patriotism.

45 Grave

Looking good.

What I've read from Siouxie about the swastika/too many Jews for my liking was a really shit copout tbh like why are you guys still going on about that, no actual apology or anything, but maybe I missed it

I cant trust my memory on this but I think she said something along those lines and then followed with "Dido's inoffensiveness offends me".

She definitely said the latter part.

Inexplicable skywriting this morning:

https://i.imgur.com/GsnKX8M_d.jpg

crazy that they can fly backwards like that

I'm going to assume that was actually meant for morrisp and the pilot couldn't spell

"Signed, Morrissey."

plane rong imo

Here’s someone who got a pic in a completely different part of town:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0qvl60pYct/?igshid=1sbi07t2q2g8m

Turns out tickets for a Morrissey/Interpol show at the Hollywood Bowl went on sale today.

Not enough of a racist to be prevented from headlining festivals in California, apparently:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQhSWKMVUAAXNof?format=jpg&name=large

That looks like one of those classic rock festivals with an average of 1.2 original members per band. In the UK they put them on at out-of-season holiday camps. Do Americans not generally know about his attitudes?

As far as I can tell, most of them are blissfully unaware of his bigotry or are vaguely aware of some incident that may or may not have occurred a decade ago. Speaking as someone with no interest whatsoever in his solo career but who mostly enjoys The Smiths' classic albums, I had no idea how bad it was before reading about it on ILM.

P4k have reported on his racism, and - checks - continues to mention it, even in a short write-up about a new song or album being released. Good on them. Him wearing a 'fuck the graun' shirt while on tour in America will not make waves there as it does over here probably. Still, if you're the person who buys tickets to a Morrissey show in 2020, it's hard to imagine you don't by now know he's a racist piece of shit.

Yeah, nü-p4k has done a good job on this front. And I assume this:

if you're the person who buys tickets to a Morrissey show in 2020, it's hard to imagine you don't by now know he's a racist piece of shit

…is sadly otm.

I am very much a separate art from artist person, but his racism has ruined basically all his solo work for me. I used to love him too.

tbf this racist cunt has never wanted his art separated from his persona

having Morrissey and the Graun on the right and left of the cultural theater of war is a perfect illustration of how meaningless a culture war is when both sides completely suck shite.

xp yeah that’s my point, it’s very personal in a way that some people’s art isn’t

Do Americans not generally know about his attitudes?

It's almost as if racism only exists if it's in an American context.

Idk I think Americans would understand the comments about Chinese people and all his anti-black stuff.

Proof of the pudding.

Fandom notwithstanding, Morrissey is a nonentity in North America.

Fandom notwithstanding, Morrissey is a nonentity everywhere.

There it is.

I saved time and money by hating him from the get-go

That's quite a line-up, particularly JAY ASTON'S GENE LOVES JEZEBEL.

you wouldn't want to get the wrong Gene Loves Jezebel

Aside from Morrissey and Christian Death, I would be very into this lineup

...ah OK, I thought it was a misprint; didn't realise GLJ had a Jay Aston as well as Buck's Fizz.

David Van Day's Gene Loves Jezebel.
All that's missing from that line-up is Balaam & The Angel, I wonder if they're chartering a flight to bring them all out from the UK? Piloted by Buster Bloodvessel, maybe.

looks like another rockin' day at Dignity Health Sports Park

i know it's payday for them and i don't really understand how these things work but it is disappointing to see a lot of those people appearing on the same bill as morrissey. like 40 years ago the beat were playing gigs for rock against racism, now they're sharing a stage with this turnip. can't imagine they're particularly happy about that though tbh

Green Day in the Graun the other day about their Moz collab:

“I wasn’t aware until the song came out,” says Armstrong. “We do the song, and he was very lovely, and then the song comes out and a lot of Brits were like: what the hell are you doing? I really did not have a clue … ” Bewitched by the singer’s status as an 80s indie godhead, he simply failed in his due diligence. Cool pipes up, giggling: “Hey, we’ve all got our Ted Nugents, right?” – a reference to the US rocker and gun enthusiast.

By the way, this isn't solely an American thing, he could just as easily play a festival in the UK, doubtful if he'd top the bill though.

But I don't want any Ted Nugents

Ted Nugents should be hunted to extinction

Sucks about all the other bands turning a blind eye to this. I'm sure at least 95% of them know.

If you loved the Smiths and liked a couple of Morrissey albums in high school, that doesn’t mean you kept up with all his occasional racist lyrics, let alone his decades of public racism and racism-adjacent posturing. This is probably the situation for 90+% of younger bands that ostensibly revere him.

tbh you lost me with "liked a couple of Morrissey albums in high school"

*climbs off of "I've been calling Morrissey a racist since 1988" hobby horse*

plz can someone explain exactly how big Bad Manners are in the US? and also why?

DJP OTM. This hasn't been a secret.

the answer to both nickb's qs is surely ska

lol why i am posting abt buster bloodvessel instead of cornelius cardew doing the very detailed and deadlined work i'm being inadequately paid for

special brew
i love you
gonna write abt
cornelius cardew

I assume everyone is aware that this is in Los Angeles, where Morrissey has a massive latino following that doesn't care about his racist antics in the UK press. Combine that with the smaller audience of LA Gen X goths that are likely go for the nostalgia value, this is a perfectly understandable bill.

a massive latino following that doesn't care about his racist antics in the UK press

Have never heard of this (am neither British nor American fwiw).

Why wouldn't they care at all?

there's a p4k article about it

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/does-the-mexican-american-community-still-love-morrissey-despite-everything/

Thx.

So it mostly boils down to 'we know, but we love his music more than we hate his racism'. Fair enough.

(lol @ at the automated suggestion that I read related article 'Is Lana Del Rey the American Morrissey?')

I think it's a simple as the fact that his racism hasn't been directed at the latino community tbh. And the other UK-centric stuff reads like inside baseball to non-UKers (ie, who is the Guardian? The UKIP? etc.)

i don't know, i think the quote "everyone prefers their own race" is pretty universally understandable

kind of funny that grasping some v. basic points about british politics is a bridge too far when ~95% of morrissey's cultural reference points are totally "uk centric inside baseball"

like how many people in the us know or care about reggie kray or whatever?

there was an American movie about the Krays

i guess the basic thing with morrissey music is feeling sad about yourself, not feeling sad for other people.

Yeah no I made this point earlier and I don’t think an American needs to know anything about British politics to think that

- calling Chinese people “a subspecies”
- repeatedly moaning about the UK “losing its culture”/ too many foreigns not speaking English on the street
- “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
"But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

Any of these or similar themes are not immediately understood by an American for what they are? That’s not niche. Not knowing about it, ok, but if you know and think it’s “inside baseball” idk

”Britain’s a terribly negative place. And it hammers people down and it pulls you back and it prevents you. Also, with the issue of immigration, it’s very difficult because, although I don’t have anything against people from other countries, the higher the influx into England, the more the British identity disappears. So the price is enormous. If you travel to Germany, it’s still absolutely Germany. If you travel to Sweden, it still has a Swedish identity. But travel to England and you have no idea where you are.”

Morrissey's last album was #4 in UK, and #95 in U.S. -- why is his con't popularity being discussed as an American issue(?)

Yeah but when push comes to shove it's all good:

I really like Mexican people. I find them so terribly nice. And they have fantastic hair, and fantastic skin, and usually really good teeth.

Probably because you need to sell about ten albums to break the top ten nowadays. (The point is about his acceptability, not his popularity, but yeah, point). I wonder if he’s got the far right buying his stuff here to show support?

xp this came up before (maybe earlier in this very thread) and the point was made that he sounds like he’s talking about animals rather than people

sorry my exasperation with morrissey and his fans is making my brian melt. i just meant it's ironic that people are happy to learn the words to songs about reggie kray and whatnot, absolute uk cultural trivia of no relevance in this day and age, but his racist remarks and support for a far right nationalist party are way too complicated (several xps)

But doesn't he love animals more than anything (aside from his own self, of course)? Checkmate, wokesters!

xp

there was an American movie about the Krays

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, February 12, 2020

British!

two of em!

xpost!
What's the American film about The Krays?

yes morrissey still gets some sales in first week of album release in the UK - but generally his live pulling power is pretty reduced, nobody gives a shit about the records, etc. he's a sad joke amongst music fans here.
he wouldn't headline a festival of any stature in the UK. nobody would want him to or ask him to. in contrast the news just doesn't seem to have penetrated in the U.S., to the point where members of Broken Social Scene, Grizzly Bear collaborated with him last year :-(

Legend?

Brian Helgeland, who wrote and directed Legend, is American, hence the confusion.

i think the answer as to why a lot of people don't know about morsel's view (not fixing that autocorrect) is he's a mainstream nonentity here and frankly his quotes on these subjects are too dull to be provocative, they're just very tedious opinions from a guy that virtually no one in the states cares about. and those who do care about him i think often excuse what he says as something taken out of context. i do think it's just a thing where for awhile his thoughts were underreported here except in certain outlets. i mean i'm fairly plugged-in and until recent years i didn't get the full scope of his idiot opinions.

omar is correct

too dull to be provocative, they're just very tedious opinions

Would you be making the same case if he was American?

i'm not making any case and i don't know what that even means, i just think there are a lot of famous UK racists that most americans don't care about whose opinions aren't reported on over here, at least not extensively, let alone tedious ones from washed-up musicians with cult followings.

The Smiths are great. You don’t need to wholly identify with the songs or the person singing them to enjoy the band. And the themes of loneliness and despair—especially his trademark twist of solipsism, which often comes with some self-aware/deprecating humor—are universal and that’s why he has so many Latino fans.

In the sense that the songs speak to everyone, they actually are working against Morrissey’s own perspective that national identity is what’s important (via Derridean analysis)

So the Smiths music, even though there are problematic lyrics here and there, on the whole isn’t something I’d give over to being like Ukip anthems. Just not what the songs are.

i'm picking this hill and i'm going to die on it, like joan of arc

the funny (well, ok not haha funny) thing about Morrissey-as-martyr (per the Joan of Arc ref) is that it's always been core to his identity/persona, it's just that now he uses it as a shield for his racism.

as a person, he should be strongly criticized for his racism. and it's part of the story of the songs and helps put them in context. i just feel like there is a stigma attached to the music now that isn't deserved -- the work is separate

I don't disagree but where that line is of separating the work from the artist is different for everybody

It's almost as if racism only exists if it's in an American context.

― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 10:44 (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I was going to gently dispute that statement then the rest of the thread went all out to corroborate it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, I thought I was pushing my luck a bit with that one but...

again everyone here who knows the story and know what he's say understands his racism and that it exists, but generally no one pays attention to Morrissey nor is he reported on. i was talking to a friend recently abt morrissey bc she's sort of a fan and i mentioned his "thoughts" on race and immigration and she'd never heard a thing about it.

Despite the fact that he's been racist for virutally his entire career?

What’s American about the context?

Nm i think Tom & I agree

but generally no one pays attention to Morrissey nor is he reported on

it's weird how ppl keep missing this important point

she's not one to read UK papers or pitchfork tho, she lives a bit inside a fandom bubble w/r/t musicians, i think it's her refuge. and this story in particular, it's not something you're going to just passively hear about from casual mainstream news browsing. especially since it's not a story, it's just a constant fact w/him.

(xp) it's weird how Morrissey keeps missing this important point

The Smiths are great. You don’t need to wholly identify with the songs or the person singing them to enjoy the band. And the themes of loneliness and despair—especially his trademark twist of solipsism, which often comes with some self-aware/deprecating humor—are universal and that’s why he has so many Latino fans.

In the sense that the songs speak to everyone, they actually are working against Morrissey’s own perspective that national identity is what’s important (via Derridean analysis)

Hm, I love the Smiths, and have no problem with still listening to them, but they pretty obv don't speak to everyone. At least outside the UK, they were always a cult phenomenon. Anglophilia has at least something to do with some part of the cult of people who are listening to songs about dropping one's trousers to the Queen or hopes rising on the Grasmere. So I could see it making a difference to how one conceives of the emphasis on British identity in the lyrics.

Incidentally, I think my favourite defence of "Bengali" on the old alt.music.smiths Usenet group was that Morrissey's racism was just a subset of his overall misanthropy.

Some Bugbears Are Bigger Than Others

If you acknowledge that he's a heinous ass and like his music anyway, that's fine – otherwise I wouldn't be into metal. If you've gotten wind of his statements from across the pond but don't think they're that big a deal because there's a hierarchy of racisms and calling the Chinese 'a subspecies' is mid-tier at best because that's just how America rolls, I don't know what to say. (I'm not accusing anyone of doing this itt btw.)

I never met a Bengali so why I should I get offended on their behalf?

separate thing but i mean a lot of people were apparently somehow unaware that R. Kelly was extremely creepy until the past several years, even though that was something that was actually reported on here. people just don't pay attention to the news or the history of musicians' creepy behavior and dumb statements.

R. Kelly's perviness is all over his music. Morrissey's racism bursts through into his music on occasion, but it's not often the focus.

Ime, a lot of people had no idea what the word "Bengali" meant, even though there's a good chance they had met some around here.

I'm gonna get back on my hobby horse and say I noticed all of this just by listening to his lyrics immediately after he went solo

as a person, he should be strongly criticized for his racism. and it's part of the story of the songs and helps put them in context. i just feel like there is a stigma attached to the music now that isn't deserved -- the work is separate

Meanwhile, I can't listen to "Panic" anymore

I'm aware of one Morrissey superfan here in the U.S. (well, I think she recently moved to the UK) who ended up renouncing her fandom in the past few years, after a long period of being conflicted, etc. (this is based on social media and podcast stuff).

can we please talk about buster bloodvessel some more? he’s not racist is he?

Lip up fashy

lol

Adolf skitler

Sorry I mean skadolf skibbiditler

but generally no one pays attention to Morrissey nor is he reported on

In the U.K., their kids get to read it in their magazines, but we don't have those.

If you haven't read ska weekly then you should really pick it now

> people just don't pay attention to the news or the history of musicians' creepy behavior and dumb statements.

OTM, they don't even do it for far more famous figures. So depressing whenever I encounter this firsthand.

Manor House's finest sons Bad Manners have no known affiliations with far-right terror groups along the lines of UKIP etc, but I have a sneaking suspicion Mr Bloodvessel may have voted for Brexit.

let's go outside, guys.

Meanwhile, I can't listen to "Panic" anymore

Why? Isn't it about their reaction to a shitty Wham song being played after hearing about Chernobyl? Or is there a darker meaning?

Let's go outside!

https://youtu.be/gwZAYdHcDtU

xp. anti-greek racism

The darker meaning of "Panic" is that be hates music by black people

^^^ combine this with the "Hang the DJ" play-out for extra horror

My memory is that Morrissey dropped 'All reggae is vile' in an interview round about the time of Panic

good grief! What on earth is blatantly dissing club culture got to do with a fucking nuclear reactor meltdown in Ukraine?

going to regret posting this but while morrissey is obviously massively racist and divining racism in his lyrics is quite a fruitful pursuit in general, the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

it's pasty white men in cheap suits and bad cologne dancing to spandau ballet and then having a fight and a kebab on the way home

i think he might have even came out with the reggae is vile (i think he also called reggae racist) in the context of criticism that panic was racist

which proves he is a huge racist obviously

It was quoted upthread:

Yeah no I made this point earlier and I don’t think an American needs to know anything about British politics to think that

- calling Chinese people “a subspecies”
- repeatedly moaning about the UK “losing its culture”/ too many foreigns not speaking English on the street
- “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
"But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

Any of these or similar themes are not immediately understood by an American for what they are? That’s not niche. Not knowing about it, ok, but if you know and think it’s “inside baseball” idkYeah no I made this point earlier and I don’t think an American needs to know anything about British politics to think that

- calling Chinese people “a subspecies”
- repeatedly moaning about the UK “losing its culture”/ too many foreigns not speaking English on the street
- “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
"But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

Any of these or similar themes are not immediately understood by an American for what they are? That’s not niche. Not knowing about it, ok, but if you know and think it’s “inside baseball” idk

I do have work I'm supposed to do so I am going to try to not get sucked into this vortex but authorial intent only goes so far when the author spends several decades showing people all the ways in which he is a racist dickbag

the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

I can't speak for some of them places in that song (and maybe neither can that cunt Mozza!), but in his own native city of birth, Manchester and even indeed the shitty little northern town I grew up in across the Pennines from that region, they are both areas with huge afro-Caribbean and Asian communities. Not places where the old discotheques were just full of white people.

I had heard about so many of these incidents, but somehow I hadn't heard about the "reggae is racist" one yet. What an absolute shitbag.

Also, jeez Moz, weird to see what all the specific "Top 40" acts you name have in common.

acc.freaky trigger commenter billy smart (ilxor by another name? ppssibly!) "reggae is vile" is from 1985

(i.e. two years before "panic" and unprompted by any accusation, tho in a sense prompted by being asked which reggae act he liked)

SOUL ACT: Nico

racist game recognize racist game

going to regret posting this but while morrissey is obviously massively racist and divining racism in his lyrics is quite a fruitful pursuit in general, the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

it's pasty white men in cheap suits and bad cologne dancing to spandau ballet and then having a fight and a kebab on the way home

agree that it's more "ugh, vulgar and tacky contemporary normie brit-culture" than "ugh, black people culture" per se, but it gets murky pretty quick when that vulgar modern world is counterpointed to his idealised 50s/early 60s B&W film (emphasis on the W) version of Britain, it's easy to trac a through line from that to the 'britain isn't really british anymore because of too much immigration' stuff he's come out with more recently

I can believe what jim said but it's "the music they constantly play says nothing to me about my life", not "the song he played has nothing to do woth dying kids" or something. That Chernobyl explanation always seemed far-fetched to me. 7xp

*with

acc.freaky trigger commenter billy smart (ilxor by another name? ppssibly!) "reggae is vile" is from 1985

(i.e. two years before "panic" and unprompted by any accusation, tho in a sense prompted by being asked which reggae act he liked)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_(The_Smiths_song)#Release_and_reception

Morrissey denied the accusation, and in a September 1986 Melody Maker interview with Frank Owen decried Owen's suggestion that he was leading a "black pop conspiracy". Additional criticism was sparked by the same interview, wherein Morrissey was quoted naming reggae as "the most racist music in the entire world."[13] Marr, in particular, was incensed by the article and in a 1987 NME interview threatened to "kick the living shit" out of the writer if he met him, such was his anger at the article's slant. He also countered that "disco music" could not be simply equated with "black music", saying, "To those who took offence at the 'burn down the disco' line [...] I'd say please show me the black members of New Order!"[14]

xps. good point, soref

i'll get me coat

Also from the Owen piece:

You seem to be saying that you believe that there is some sort of black pop conspiracy being organised to keep white indie groups down.

“Yes, I really do.” Morrissey goes on

Funny how the memory plays tricks! thanks for the correction, mark s

Paolo Hewitt comes out well from that wikipedia entry, I mean that without irony.

Although after hearing about Peart and the NME, idk if I should trust the author.xp

I think the Smiths were the recipients of considerably more good will in the NME than Rush. I doubt they ever got a bad review.

I don't think mark's correction is correct, though? For one thing, "Panic" came out in 86 and the Wikipedia article reference the reggae comment (although at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Moz said it multiple times)

He also countered that "disco music" could not be simply equated with "black music", saying, "To those who took offence at the 'burn down the disco' line [...] I'd say please show me the black members of New Order

oooh he showed him!

lol!

if a double decker bus
crashes into us
to die by Moz's side
I'll be happy to know that he's died

would love to pivot to the racist/right-wing underpinnings of Joy Division/New Order...

Have they done anything beyond being REALLY REALLY REALLY TERRIBLE at naming their band? I actually don't know.

No.

The Nazi in the band killed himself.

The band’s demo EP An Ideal for Living featured a cover with a Hitler Youth member pounding on a drum. The inside artwork is the infamous picture of Jews with their hands up in surrender during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Curtis described the choice of artwork as “thought-provoking.” Kevin Martinez of the Socialist Equality Party penned an article in 2008, explaining the band’s relationship with Nazism: “While Curtis was not flirting with neo-Nazism, some of his bandmates indicate that they had a fascination with fascism at the time, and the whole thing suggests unseriousness and irresponsibility, as well as a growing social nihilism.”[7] Unfortunately, this did little to stop Nazi skinheads from attending Joy Division’s shows in droves or to deter regular accusations that its members were Nazis and/or supported fascism.

heh

I was kind of joking (Marr's attempt at misdirection is ironic) but fwiw there's some lengthy back and forth here: The Ian Curtis memorial thread

xpost - I'm not aware of anything specific beyond the terrible names and the artwork for that EP though.

yeah, the ideal for living cover artwork, bernard going by bernard albrecht, the song warsaw being about rudolph hess and bernard shouting "You all forgot Rudolph Hess!" before playing some song at an early manchester show. oh and curtis being a tory

i'm half right dan, admittedly i can't count lol (i forgot which year panic came out bcz i am old) but the actual line as cited (="reggae is vile") was not the one mentioned in wikipedia, and is (acc.billy smart ) from the regular nme mini-feature a "portrait of the artist as a consumer" panel of feb 1985 (not strictly speaking an interview tho the info was often gathered by phone iirc). in frank owen's 1986 melody maker piece he makes a differently worded charge against reggae

lol i might as well (re)link the entire piece as it tells the story reasonably clearly i think: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/hidden-landscapes/2018/05/other-jacksons-in-your-house/

bernard shouting "You all forgot Rudolph Hess!" before playing some song at an early manchester show.

Curtis surely?

Morrissey is a racist imo

xp it's clearly Bernard's voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceHzceD8QpQ

What makes you so sure that's Barney though?

the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

within spitting distance of where morrissey grew up there were clubs with lots of british caribbean ppl that played soul, funk, reggae etc. as well as local sound systems. tony wilson and the factory records ppl were hanging out in these places. the likes of greg wilson were playing disco & electro in legends in the city centre to a mixed audience from the early 80s, plus, yknow, northern soul and all that. I don't think disco wld code as white to anyone in manchester back then

i guess you did have the bee gees

hanging a DJ for playing the bee gees seems wrong also

definitely fighting words in my house

(after his insane peace mission) Meanwhile, Hitler initiated Aktion Hess, a flurry of hundreds of arrests of astrologers, faith healers and occultists that took place around 9 June. The campaign was part of a propaganda effort by Goebbels and others to denigrate Hess and to make scapegoats of occult practitioners

I would have thought that the average late 70's punk/fascist edgelord might have gone for some other nazi than that cabbage tbh!

sorry slightly offtopic and very otm post by ogmor up there

i guess you did have the bee gees

... from Chorlton-cum-Hardy.

x-post Sounds like Barney to me. Flirting with Nazi imagery was very much in the air in late 70s Britain and Joy Division was definitely part of that. It's hardly a good look, but there's still quite a chasm between that and the overt racism of Morrissey.

I'd say there's a pretty direct line, actually

resentful white working class with a chip on its shoulder/eager to provoke ---> racism

and even the most resolutely anti-Nazi Mancunian had it in him to write "The Classical"

(full disclosure: out of the canonical Manchester bands under discussion - Smiths/Morrissey, JD/New Order, the Fall - I'll take the Fall, warts and all, in a heartbeat)

The resentful white working class were not generally the ones flirting with Nazi imagery fwiw.

We've had this conversation before though.

the national front v active in manchester round that time too of course. there has been a big irish/anglo-irish community in manchester since it industrialised and anti-irish racism was equally well-established (for the condition of the working class engels focused on the 'little ireland' area round oxford road which while poor and prone to cholera outbreaks was small & more limited in its squalor and criminality than angel meadows, the o.g. manchester no-go zone, but 'little ireland' had already been the subject of moral panic journalism with strong anti-irish flavour) and was still v much around in the 70s and 80s, and morrissey's ideas abt englishness seem like the same sort of relayed racism/traumatised overcompensating/punching down you see w/ loudly patriotic minorities desperate to be accepted by racist tories today

what's a better classifier/description?

xps

Of what?

Not in any way supporting punks flirting with nazi imagery, but there was really a lot of it going around, and they all seem to have been mortified by it within a few years.

Morrissey, however, cannot be given the benefit of the doubt, as there is absolutely no doubt.

of who was flirting with nazi imagery

xps

Bowie fans!

Resentful that they couldn't get their hair to stand up like Bowie's on the cover of "Aladdin Sane".

wait are you saying chorlton isn't in manchester or what

I'm saying it is!

ah ok! this classic photo from hulme in 85 seems just about relevant enough to justify posting

https://i2.wp.com/britishculturearchive.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/img_7506.jpg

Marr is such a fan of Chic that he named his son Nile. I wonder what Mozz thought of that, or what Marr thought of the "burn down the disco" bullshit.

and what made him a marvelous guitarist was the degree to which he eschewed lead guitar cliches and played rhythm, i.e. like a guy who spend his formative years playing Motown 45s.

Marr's guitar parts are really bizarre, I wish there was a muso breakdown book of them with tunings, tabs, etc. A lot of the chord structures in the songs are quite simple, but the multi-layered guitar parts are a maze.

I imagine he never told Mozza that "How Soon Is Now" was inspired by Hamilton Bohannon's "Disco Stomp" either.

I used to often walk through Hulme towards Deansgate when i lived in Whalley Range for a bit in the late 90's. I can't even imagine how much affordable housing is there these days!

xps about nazi imagery

the Bromley Contingent? lots of middle class London suburban art school dropouts (or would have been if they were a bit older) with swastikas and stuff is it? I'm more of a keen listener than scholar of music social history, but that is a thing that is in my head for some reason.

I have this bit in one of my Smiths books at home (surely not The Severed Alliance?!) with more detail:

Tell us a secret
The Smiths were planning a disco album.

I went through a lot of Marr stuff with my teacher once, and while there aren't many weird tunings iirc (aside from "How Soon is Now?"), there is a lot of capo use and some super-cool chords and patterns (and of course layers). And you can definitely catch the Nile Rodgers influence when you learn what Marr is up to.

besides the universities slowly sprawling out into it hulme hasn't seen too much development since the 90s tbh, more towards castlefield and the city centre. contra owen hatherley who sez its all gone downhill since they demolished the crescent and nothing good has come from manchester since a guy called gerald blah blah I think somehow despite being bulldozed and rebuilt twice since the war hulme has more of a legit proper community feel with co-ops and not totally horrible social housing and so on than most of south manchester. altho having said that a guy I went to school with got funding to build a music studio in the arts centre there and the only ppl he can ever get to come and use it are indie bands from chorlton

Morrissey never recovered from being seated between a DJ and George Michael, while being assigned to watch a hiphop movie

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5x78ql

It’s really fun to play smiths stuff on guitar ime

Flirting with Nazi imagery was very much in the air in late 70s Britain

and in the US in the NY and LA punk scenes

And, from the same 1986 Melody Maker interview with Frank Owen as the Diana Ross comments above:

Morrissey: "I don't think there's any time anymore to be subtle about anything, you have to get straight to the point. Obviously to get on Top Of The Pops these days, one has to be, by law, black. I think something political has occurred among Michael Hurll and his friends and there has been a hefty pushing of all these black artists and all this discofied nonsense into the Top 40. I think, as a result, that very aware younger groups that speak for now are being gagged."

Interviewer: You seem to be saying that you believe that there is some sort of black pop conspiracy being organised to keep white indie groups down.

Morrissey: "Yes, I really do."

This guy seems pretty racist

there is a light that should really go out

a kick in the balls
and I say
that's entertainment

If the guy’s been saying shit like this all along, it makes the “Why hasn’t he been canceled yet in America?” inquiries from earlier today seem even more pointless. Clearly, his fans on both sides of the pond have either been willing to ignore it, or have been generally ignorant of it, for decades.

https://media.giphy.com/media/7kFWNDCTwzsDm/giphy.gif

Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?

the problem is, morrissey's music is good

and all four smiths albums are important if you care about the development of indie music or even british culture more broadly. this is like canceling shakespeare for being sexist or something

or picasso. critique is important, but what is meant by "canceling"?

I’m using it as shorthand. The question this morning (US time) was why he is allegedly more acceptable in the US than UK.

because he is a relic

he's an extant human who makes money by performing to paying audiences

sort of

i don't know, i feel worse supporting the meat industry than giving money to morrissey. or paying taxes that go toward cluster bombs for saudi arabia etc

I love old Smiths shit but y'know.....I also like Sufjan Stevens, but if he put out an album called "12 Fascist Folk Songs" that might ruin the beauty of his old music to me.

I'm not firmly in that camp, because I like a lot of music with problematic pasts, but I think right now many of us are feeling a little bit less tolerant given how much white nationalism is taking off across the globe and not wanting to be any part of it.

i don't think ILX is marching anyone to the gallows for singing "How Soon is Now?" at karaoke tho

I probably would but not because racism

in that case, I have the names of 47 people doing that right now

that's a good comparison with sufjan. i hold him to a different standard. morrissey has always been melodramatic, kind of a camp figure but able to derive pathos out of that. i would never look to such a person to have admirable beliefs. i also don't see him being an influential messenger for these ideas but maybe he is radicalizing people who knows

I mean the metal bands I listen to, I can't throw stones. but it's also that it's not like someone had to goad Morrissey into saying these things, he just does, and loudly, and that's in your head when you hear the songs.

now I'm also not a huge Moz or Smiths fan tho so that also plays into it. i'd have a hard time letting go of Iron Maiden if they wrote a song about Eddie being anti-semetic or some shit.

in the songs, morrissey comes across as a manipulative narcissist. it's part of the drama

i don't know, i guess i don't think i'd want to only consume art by "good" people.

I have heard Steve Harris's political views are pretty far from progressive

really? :(

With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r) at 12:34 12 Feb 20

Ime, a lot of people had no idea what the word "Bengali" meant, even though there's a good chance they had met some around here.

--- yeah I mean I will admit, as a cornfed Midwestern rube with latent sadsack indie tendencies, with a very narrow cultural perspective -- as blatantly racist as I understand Bengali in Platforms to be now -- it didn't exactly jump off the page to me then, especially if your frame of reference for "problematic fav being racist" was One in a Million by Guns n Roses or Black Korea by Ice Cube

also it would have never occurred to me that soft/melancholy music could be racist

xpost yeah it was a rumour I read, something about not wanting his daughter dating outside her race. def not for sure confirmed but...I dunno think about it... dude his age and background.... really into metal and military history, I could see it

Most of us have beloved artists who did heinous shit and we haven't been able to divorce ourselves from them - Iggy and Bowie, child molesters; domestic assault up and down the line; Tupac, sexual assault; dancehall/reggae homophobia and sexism. Where we're capable of drawing the line ends up being pretty irrational.

thanks for someone finally bringing up the Tupac sexual assault. kinda cringed when I saw some people who were bringing up Kobe's rape on the date of his death and saying "nobody should mourn this dude" that are also the "Tupac RIP we miss you" crew. he was convicted, too!

(not that i'm saying the comments about the rape are off limits for Kobe, but have some consistency)

Sounds like you’re posting from Bizarro world w/r/t Kobe. I assume you’re aware that of the repercussions faced by a few (female) journalists who brought up the Kobe rape allegation after his death.

of course I'm aware of that, I have the internet, it's gross and I hate it. I'm just saying it shouldn't be inherently off limits to say "ok, I know we're sad, but let's not forget this happened". I however have long wondered why people I know that are still rosy about Tupac who turned the sideeye to Kobe when he passed.

not decrying people for not bringing it up at all.

I hear you

The question this morning (US time) was why he is allegedly more acceptable in the US than UK.

Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992 and it didn't take until, like, late 2018. His tour in America last year did loads of cut-price tickets because sales were low. Him being booked on one 1980s nostalgia concert in one city doesn't say anything about either country's moral centre.

this is probably a good place for Morrissey's Green Book theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_96bgvIDlM

Morrissey's Green Book theme song

lmao how am I only learning about this now, perfect

and all four smiths albums are important if you care about the development of indie music or even british culture more broadly. this is like canceling shakespeare for being sexist or something

Not important in the development of 'British culture' and not like cancelling Shakepeare.

fucking hell, haven't read so much maximum wrongness in one sentence on ilm for years.

oh lol just scrolled up to find the perpetrator of that uttermost claptrap and I'm not entirely shocked!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg/220px-Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg

I'd be interested to see which Elizabethan writer it would be like cancelling if you were to give a summary dismissal to other shit British indie-rock bands. Maybe Ned's Atomic Dustbin for C Marlowe? jesus can't even name another Elizabethan writer without going to wiki, but shamefully my mind is like a skip full of the names of shit British indie bands!

I once saw a rousing production of Edward II at sheffield crucible starring Fiennes the younger, that was better than any indie rock shite!

Thinking about this this morning and for me the discussion above isn't so much about Morrissey or the "ethics of cancel cultures" or even the art/artist separation (which christ knows we've done to death) but more the culture clash with a certain group of people who are mainly in the USA, let's call them the Freeze Peach Posse - these are youngish angry men who identify as libertarian and view absolutely everything as an issue of free speech. We have plenty of awful people in the UK, but they seem to be of a different (not better) sort. I mainly know the FPP from their relentless commenting on my US friends Facebook posts, every American I know on there seems to have at least a couple of friends or relatives like this. The presence and tolerance of these people seems to lead to an expectation that artists (particularly white male musicians) are likely to be "free thinkers" who are going to come out with all kinds of outrageous things, but "hey, that's all part of being a rock star, I'm here for the music," etc. But this is bullshit, he is putting out this stuff and feels emboldened to do so, buying a ticket to his show let's him know that you are on-board with this stuff and encourages him to do it more.

Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?

― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i', mot going to link it for like a fourth time, that seems cheeky, but (as a writer who was "there" in 1986) i did actually wrestle with this at some length in my patreon/freaky trigger piece: i think there were institutional reasons it didn't land with permanence in the 80s which go beyond "everyone is as racist as everyone else, get over yrselves" -- a big deal was immediately made of it in the uk music press in 1986

"i', mot" = "i'm not"

i mean my explanation could be wrong! but the effort has been made

Yeah the NME famously covered his Finsbury Park gig with the Union Jack in it critically(92?), and were subsequently proven correct in doubt so.

that's one of the things I was thinking of re Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992, as well as Cornershop doing a photo shoot burning pictures of Morrissey and talking about how offensive his lyrics were.

(sub "brown" where appropriate - De1e Fade1e was the NME writer.)

Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?
― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i', mot going to link it for like a fourth time, that seems cheeky, but (as a writer who was "there" in 1986) i did actually wrestle with this at some length in my patreon/freaky trigger piece: i think there were institutional reasons it didn't land with permanence in the 80s which go beyond "everyone is as racist as everyone else, get over yrselves" -- a big deal was immediately made of it in the uk music press in 1986

― mark s, Thursday, February 13, 2020 4:07 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

just want to say that this is a great piece and everyone who's interested enough in this to post in this thread should read it

I'll link to it again so mark s doesn't have to

https://www.patreon.com/posts/other-jacksons-18720007

Eh...despite Morrissey’s sincere attempts to fuck it up by association since, the Smiths’ rep is still a million miles away from the late 80s/early 90s UK indie herd

Not quite on a par with Shakespeare though. His sister maybe.

sounds just as bard as all the other indie shite to me!

The smiths’ best songs rule, come on

I went from being a slight Smiths fan over time, to loving them a couple of years ago, to being unable to stomach them anymore when I read Mark's article. I mean fuck Morissey sideways.

This was on a past revive, not just now.

Marr does a credible job singing the good Smiths song live so you can enjoy them without direct Morrissey stink, at least

i'll read mark's article

I imagine he never told Mozza that "How Soon Is Now" was inspired by Hamilton Bohannon's "Disco Stomp" either.

― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Lol, amazing

See this article is doing the rounds on Twitter again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512

https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4634-stop-me-if-you-think-you-ve-heard-this-one-before-a-study-in-the-politics-and-aesthetics-of-english-misery

Owen Hatherley on Morrissey as paragon of English boomer miserabilism

i've seen a couple of attempts to rehabilitate Morrissey this year. one asks oneself why.

this is a very good piece

It's OK, feels like he wasn't entirely convinced by the conclusions he's drawn and crammed them into a little paragraph at the end though.

i think he understands the essence of morrissey, i guess borrowed from simon reynnolds, that morrissey is really longing for the "lost limits" of a vanished social order, even as he tries to make it seem like he's railing against them. these are odes to repression. that's why the music is so distinctive, but it also means his ukip sympathies shouldn't be a surprise.

a lot of people sussed this a long time ago treesh, which is why i think the only thinkpiece worth anything about Morrissey now is "fuck this racist"

ppl sussed everything thousands of years ago yet here we are

lol truth

A minor quibble maybe, but why did he chose to single out Lulu alongside Joe Meek and Billy Fury 'rather than psychedelia or soul'? Her first hit was a Isley Brothers song! Shouldn't it have been Helen Shapiro or someone?

Alma Cogan?

hackney massive reprazent

let's assume he's limited by the extent of his own record collection

(alma is whitechapel, helen is hackney)

no suck up but mark your history of Morrissey is gloriously correct

v mildly peeved owen doesn't cite it since i *know* he knows it, all my attempts to turn ancient weak-tea beef w.simon r into MASSIVE CLOUT are doomed to fail

no suck up taken

I do think the idea of generational nostalgia for misery is p interesting, though I agree with Tom that it could be developed more strongly.

people with grudges are like that -- stuck in the past, but not because they liked it. because it formed them. it takes courage to break free.

They seems to be stuck in someone else's past though - Morrissey in the late 50s/early 60s and all of these clowns who go on about the war and the Blitz when they weren't even born yet.

yeah. he obviously likes feeling sorry for himself. i think the politics emerges from the psychology.

Morrissey nostalgic for a past his parents were fucking not a part of and would have been excluded from. Fuck this prick.

It's almost like these people think they have suffered enough, in fact.

... sorry, HAVEN'T suffered enough!

it takes goots to be gentle and kind

https://pitchfork.com/news/the-simpsons-morrissey-inspired-song-everyone-is-horrid-except-me-and-possibly-you-gets-officially-released-listen/

lmao this is great

this is going around on twitter but can't find the source

Impossible to tell if these song titles are some ones Twitter made up. pic.twitter.com/SwOTeCNu1y

— Justin Lewis (@WhenIsBirths) May 31, 2021

https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/morrissey-new-album

appears to be real

the source of the twitter screencap is morrissey-solo

album artwork by the "united states of whatever" guy

Morrissey's 5 nights at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas start on August 28, and
there are no anti-social distancing or facial concealment rules in place.

As well as an idiot? Yes, no surprise there.

genuinely strange that he hasn't been very outspoken about it if he's a covid conspiracy weirdo

The Unmasked Singer

Morrissey's 5 nights at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas start on August 28, and
there are no anti-social distancing or facial concealment rules in place.
so he's a covidiot too? not surprising tbh.
― A viking of frowns, (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, May 31, 2021 2:38 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

everyone in the states who wants to be is vaccinated at this stage, lots of people are doing shows, festivals etc. in the coming months?

he's a huge bastard, we don't need to make up issues with him

I'm sure that whatever policies are being set are being set by the casino and not Morrissey himself

idk about the rules, but calling masks "facial concealment" is one rung down on the loony ladder from calling them "muzzles"

“anti-social” distancing rules also not exactly a neutral phrase

fair enough, i was just reading what was on this page

and somehow missed that bit haha

shouldn't post before i have a cup of tea

but tea is made from a foreign plant

Now you need to set a land speed record for comparison's sake.

Ah, wrong thread...

new interview with his fawning nephew on his website, I have read it so you don't have to

* The title track of "Bonfire of the Teenagers" is about the Manchester bombing.
* He considers Julia Hartley-Brewer and Australian Sky TV the only reliable news sources
* Despite being given several chances he doesn't seem to be ready to dive fully into covidiocy, he is strangely coy about this.

here it is

https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/turning-the-inside-out

I’m afraid to ask, but what angle will he take on the Manchester bombing?

Indeed, it's difficult to imagine who he would hate more: radical Islam or Ariana Grande.

he already said a bunch of barely legible nonsense when it happened:

“Theresa May says such attacks ‘will not break us’, but her own life is lived in a bullet-proof bubble, and she evidently does not need to identify any young people today in Manchester morgues. Also, ‘will not break us’ means that the tragedy will not break her, or her policies on immigration. The young people of Manchester are already broken – thanks all the same, Theresa. Sadiq Khan says ‘London is united with Manchester’, but he does not condemn Islamic State – who have claimed responsibility for the bomb. The Queen receives absurd praise for her ‘strong words’ against the attack, yet she does not cancel today’s garden party at Buckingham Palace – for which no criticism is allowed in the Britain of free press. Manchester mayor Andy Burnham says the attack is the work of an ‘extremist’. An extreme what? An extreme rabbit?”

and let's be clear here - he's blaming Theresa May's immigration policies for not being strong enough, after all he's also said "The gates of England are flooded."

it probably escaped him that the bomber was born in manchester... probably not the right sort of mancunian for him though.

god why did i click on that link... he calls it CON-VID and doesn't blink when his interviewer friend says "Covid Society is also the precise description of slavery" - so i think it's safe to stick him in the covidiot crew.

for context, sky news australia is our shitty murdoch-owned fox news equivalent, except no one actually watches it here. they've started pandering to an overseas right-wing audience with their online content which has been very successful for them though

Yeah maybe I was being a bit generous with the "not a committed covidiot as yet" but he does keep deflecting rather than making clear what he actually thinks, curious as to whether there is a reason for this or it's just Morrissey being Morrissey.

not that there's much confusion on how much self-awareness this guy has but jeeezus this is hilarious

https://www.nme.com/news/music/morrissey-shares-new-post-appearing-to-rank-all-of-his-solo-and-smiths-albums-3060556

1. ‘World Peace Is None Of Your Business’
2. ‘Ringleader of the Tormentors’
3. ‘You Are The Quarry’
4. ‘Bona Drag’
5. ‘Vauxhall and I’
6. ‘Your Arsenal’
7. ‘Louder than Bombs’
8. ‘Strangeways, Here We Come’
9. ‘Rank’
10. ‘Swords’
11. ‘California Son’
12. ‘I Am Not A Dog On A Chain’
13. ‘Years Of Refusal’
14. ‘Low In High School’
15. ‘Southpaw Grammar’
16. ‘Beethoven Was Deaf’
17. ‘Meat Is Murder’
18. ‘The Queen Is Dead’
19. ‘Maladjusted’
20. ‘Viva Hate’
21. ‘Greatest Hits’ (solo)
22. ‘Hatful of Hollow’
23. ‘Singles’ (The Smiths)
24. ‘Live at Earls Court’
25. ‘The World Won’t Listen’
26. ‘Kill Uncle’
27. ‘The Best Of’ (solo)
28. ‘Very Best Of’ (solo)
29. ‘The Smiths’
30. ‘Rare’

lol World Peace was his last solo album i've heard in its entirety and well, i knew to stop reading immediately

the worst thing to happen to British music in the 20th century. Even worse than Oasis who just sounded like a shitty half way knock off between Slade and Status Quo. Hang your heads in shame, closetted Blairites.

This run slayed me

27. ‘The Best Of’ (solo)
28. ‘Very Best Of’ (solo)
29. ‘The Smiths’

what the hell is rare

the worst thing to happen to British music in the 20th century.

and not Winston Churchill?

what the hell is rare

― brimstead, Friday, October 1, 2021 5:53 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah i had to look that up too, it's a japanese-only compilation of maladjusted-era b-sides (very enticing haha)

Morrissey unlocked a lot of shit inside me a long time ago. I owe him and The Smiths. The rest you can feed, deservedly, to the dogs.

that's how I feel

and not Winston Churchill?
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 1 October 2021 23:56

Much worse. Worse than Hitler and Stalin combined, actually.

Well, if we're comparing body counts, let's hit the bar.

The effect Winston Churchill had on 20th century British music is not often debated.

No Churchill, no Beatles

I believe that's why some say he is "worse than Hitler and Stalin".

We'd all be singing in German, like Kraftwerk, if it wasn't for Churchill.

He's right that the two best Smiths releases are, in order, Louder Than Bombs and Strangeways, Here We Come. Other than that, nah.

Strangeways is mostly bullshit

yep

both Morrissey and Marr have said Strangeways is their favourite Smith's LP

clearly not the best judge of their own work

A Rush and a Push and the Land is Ours is the best song and is pretty impossible to listen to now and not interpret as a white power anthem

"I Started Something..." is a fabulous karaoke jam, and I dig "Stop Me..." and "I Won't Share You." That's that.

(xp) I thought it was about Ireland? I have no idea whether Morrissey supports Irish Republicanism or not tbf.

I mean it might be but read the lyrics in light of Moz now and there's certainly another interpretation

I mean obviously I was dumb enough to buy all his disassembling about Bengali or the Union Jack or National Front Disco, so now it's hard not to view it in different light

Yes, the lyrics do read a bit dodgy these days but I think it is inspired (however vaguely) by Irish republicanism.

think it's probably just the usual "Misfits" deal tbh

the ghost of troubled joe, y'know old joe from the troubles

anyhow, bostich by yello is a much better song about rushing and pushing amirite?

Inifnitely.

"I Started Something..." is a fabulous karaoke jam, and I dig "Stop Me..." and "I Won't Share You." That's that.

No love for "Death of a Disco Dancer'?

maybe in the next world

lol

Bummed and astounded to learn that there are thirty of these

& I enjoy morrissey & the smiths’s dozen good songs as much as anyone

considering that he ranked his more recent albums highest in a desperate attempt to get me to listen to them.

nice try moz, you racist fuck lol

but seriously, how disappointing.

the only songs on strangways I like are “stop me” and “I won’t share you”, the rest is boring as fuck

Girlfriend in a Coma is one of The Smiths' loveliest songs, and I Won't Share You is a great parting shot. It's a good album, but I would take the other studio albums and HoH over it.

Quite pleased that my favourite Smiths album is "The Smiths"

considering that he ranked his more recent albums highest in a desperate attempt to get me to listen to them.

nice try moz, you racist fuck lol

ha yeah I was like, huh, there's like 10 albums here I've either never even heard of or haven't heard, then I was like and yeah that's how that's going to stay

I was listening to some album on Spotify (the Cure, I think) and when it was over the service popped into related shuffle mode. So first up was JAMC's "April Skies," which was nice, and then it was "Everyday Is Like Sunday," and swear to god, my first reaction was, aw, this is a really nice song, it's a shame about all his bullshit, but I guess it's still sad that Morrissey's dead, because he did sing a lot of songs I like. And then it struck me that, wait a minute, he's actually not dead. He's just *functionally* dead.

looking forward to seeing him at Cruel World in May.

Me too.

fuck Morrissey with a pitchfork

josh proposes an interesting thought tho: what will be the collective response when he does die?

i know i'll be sad. but mostly because of what he became, so not really that different from now.

i still do like his old records. especially the stuff with vini reilly.

He was always like this, though. See: Panic