Sleater-Kinney - The Center Won't Hold - August 16th

https://www.openpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Sleater-Kinney-Announce-St.-Vincent-Produced-Album-The-Center-Won%E2%80%99t-Hold-Share.jpg

Tracks:

The Center Won't Hold
Hurry On Home
Reach Out
Can I Go On
Restless
Ruins
LOVE
Bad Dance
The Future Is Here
The Dog/ The Body
Broken

Lyric Vid for "The Future Is Here"

well St. Vincent definitely produced this!

need to let this sink in, just because it doesn't really feel like "Sleater-Kinney" to me

but at this point I guess why not do something different?

I love "Hurry on Home" -- I've woken up with the hook in my head -- and it sounds great on my phone next to new Madonna and new Roisin Murphy.

"Hurry On Home" is superb.

Fader profile: https://www.thefader.com/2019/06/14/sleater-kinney-the-center-wont-hold-profile-interview

Article doesn't formally introduce St. Vincent -- it just sez "They turned to synths and effects and Clark" -- so I kind of wonder if it's missing some text.

This:

“Sympathy” was about her son, Marshall, who was born prematurely and had to fight for his life. He just graduated high school.

Good god, I'm old.

Yeah, that was eye-opening to say the least.

"Hurry on Home" sounded like a St. Vincent song to me but I'm digging "The Future Is Here" and Corin singing lower.

"The Future is Here" doesn't sound like SK at all and it is awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xrSuIqrhRU

"Hurry On Home", from last night's Fallon.

The visual aspect of that performance doesn't seem to sit well with them, Carrie's vox seem a little flat too.

I'll never ever in my life be a Jimmy Fallon fan but I have to admit it's pretty fucking rad to see how jazzed he was about S-K.

then again maybe it's just that he and Carrie are comedy buds.

The visual aspect of that performance doesn't seem to sit well with them, Carrie's vox seem a little flat too.

― Shoegazi (Leee), Monday, 24 June 2019 19:17 (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, i kinda agree with this; always loved sk's earnestness and the archness of this performance doesn't really fit

They seem to be mimicking St. Vincent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xfPoLEJpgY

The first two minutes sound like a forced HERE'S OUR NEW DIRECTION and the last minute sounds like an equally forced WAIT COME BACK WE'RE STILL SLEATER-KINNEY

The first two minutes sound like a forced HERE'S OUR NEW DIRECTION and the last minute sounds like an equally forced WAIT COME BACK WE'RE STILL SLEATER-KINNEY

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, July 17, 2019 9:50 AM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

If you don't mind me inquiring? What exactly does "forced" sound like , I feel it's most likely you attributing your feelings to the new direction the band is taking. I for one see this as a good mixture of their new sound and old sound, but by no means forced , whatever that means

I feel it's most likely you attributing your feelings to the new direction the band is taking.

It means that I am taking their new direction as a personal affront.

That closing minute does feel awkwardly tacked on. Weirdly, this sounds even more like a Fridmann production than The Woods did?

It means that I am taking their new direction as a personal affront.

I was more interested in what "forced" sounded like, since I see it being applied in many instances. Intuitively speaking all music is in some way or shape could be considered "forced", but I don't think it necessarily makes it bad.

But seriously, I liked the two other new songs, but by "forced" I mean that they don't sound particularly engaged with what they're doing, and they're self-consciously playing at the surface elements of the new and old approaches (which do not, to me, come together in a "mixture," but are separate and distinct segments of the song).

this sure sounds like an opening track

their lyrics still kind of suck, why didn't they think about updating THAT approach

maybe "labored"is better? to me, truly great rock bands (which I consider SK) have a way of sounding like themselves, even if they have albums as different as Dig Me Out, The Hot Rock and The Woods

great bands also have a really distinctive way they play together musically as a unit, something I felt like SK did, and this new direction strips them of that without really adding anything interesting outside of a very staid idea of "interesting production" that doesn't feel very fresh or interesting to me

"Weirdly, this sounds even more like a Fridmann production than The Woods did"

that's one of the worst sounding albums I've ever heard. This at least sounds better than that.

that was rough. i hate how affected some of the singing is on these tracks.

what a horrible development for a band so well known for singing without affectation

maybe "labored"is better? to me, truly great rock bands (which I consider SK) have a way of sounding like themselves, even if they have albums as different as Dig Me Out, The Hot Rock and The Woods

great bands also have a really distinctive way they play together musically as a unit, something I felt like SK did, and this new direction strips them of that without really adding anything interesting outside of a very staid idea of "interesting production" that doesn't feel very fresh or interesting to me

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, July 17, 2019 12:36 PM (forty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is otm.

Carrie sez:

What am I supposed to say? She left. We asked her to stay. We tried. It’s hard and sad. Most people would ask me, “hey are you ok?” That’s the human response. She’s left us with a job to do, a job we also expected and wanted her to be a part of. Her playing on this record is amazing and she’s raved about this album to us and to Annie. But we have to keep looking to the future. Things change, even when those changes are hard and unexpected. Four amazing women worked on this record and we are going to honor that work. So, what’s up? The usual….Women picking up the pieces when someone quits, because we have to and want to. We’re going to keep going because we believe in ourselves and it’s a privilege to get to play music for people. It’s a new chapter. And all artistic entities have many chapters, if they’re lucky. Either the music will resonate or it won’t.

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/carrie-brownstein-on-janet-weiss-what-am-i-supposed-to-say-she-left-we-asked-her-to-stay-we-tried/

The back half of "Center Won't Hold" sounds almost metal!

i dig this new track and have come around to liking "hurry on home," at least

also this dry one liner shouldn't go unnoticed

I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.) at 12:18 17 Jul 19

what a horrible development for a band so well known for singing without affectation

i mean like....their singing is much, much more affected now that it was on dig me out or the hot rock or all hands. it's not really a welcome development for me.

Can't wait for their back to basics album in '21

Carrie sounds about as affected as ever in the first two minutes, she's always been a distant second to Corin in singing anyway IMO.

carrie used to just kind of talk-sing and now she's doing......something

https://media.giphy.com/media/1LiryotCCtd7y/giphy.gif

can we all finally admit Quasi >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYvlcw8pLso

If only Sam whatshisface didn't sing, perhaps.

irl lol Grisso

If you're talking about Carrie's nasally singing, she started that at least as far back as One Beat ("Oxygen" comes to mind), and I probably the beginnings of it on "The Size of Our Love."

Finally listened to the single, it's fucking fantastic, I love that bizarre trad rock reprisal at the end. this shit sounds so cool, thank u st. vincent

woof

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/arts/music/sleater-kinney-st-vincent.html?fbclid=IwAR2EDvvyAEvUXImRok8abBR78Ii6HBnI2xNvVPCYiy7kNWTT6N5iseaav0k

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sic does that every time he catches someone sharing a link from facebook. I'm giving him some good-natured shit about it.

I hear Carrie kept sharing links that way, and that's why Janet left the band.

Thought that one was less revealing than the Guardian piece from a week before with their difference places in life, etc..

I've been listening to All Hands and One Beat for the last week and the difference that's striking me most is the vocal mix, especially the latest song released where Carrie's singing just seems to be on top of everything else.

i'm a little surprised to hear how hands on Annie Clark was actually in that interview so I can see how that may have been kind of an unpleasant Yoko situation for Janet.

huh I thought it was incredibly revealing, unintentionally so

clark sounded like a member of the band

yeah, both in the piece and in the music

greil m. weighs in:

I hear a person who New York Times critics and herself have sold as the coolest person on earth. What I hear on the new material is: Wouldn’t you like to be like me?—not mentioning that she’s been an image from the start.
I have been an absolute fan of the band since they formed and I heard their first tracks (including their cover of “More than a Feeling”) and stood next to the stage when they first played San Francisco. I never liked everything they did: being a fan is knowing that to embrace poor work is to betray the band, not to mention oneself. What I hear so far is a producer stealing the voice of people better than she is so that she’ll still be appearing In the fashion pages when they’re no longer competition. I hope I’m completely wrong. I am prejudiced for the west over the east. But I’ve always thought St. Vincent was a fraud and I’m not hearing differently.

Greil like to call a lot of female musicians frauds

the NYT piece winking at materialism and fashion labels feels weird with this all-female group, idk

I don't care about this band (or St. Vincent) at all but that is an incredibly bad take. It second-guesses the relationship between Brownstein and Clark in a gross, presumptive way, rather than engaging with the work itself. And calling a band a "fraud", what does that even mean? That she didn't actually produce the record, or she doesn't make her own music or have her own ideas? lol

xp

not to mention recycling hoary (and incorrect) tropes priveleging "authenticity" (she's an "image", OH NO!) and ad hominem attacks ("oh the NYT critics like her and she obviously thinks she's SO smart! I better cut her down to size")

blech

the NYT piece winking at materialism and fashion labels feels weird with this all-female group, idk

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqqvbnG6NT1ql2u8zo1_400.gif

idk why I'm reading this thread tbh, might be because I've always found ILM's collective pants-wetting over this band totally mystifying (see also: REM, Husker Du)

really like "The Center Won't Hold"

a metric source that gets thrown around here a lot, so...
monthly Spotify listeners
Sleater-Kinney: 370,000
St Vincent: about 1.5 million

I love both and I know SV is the bigger name these days, but that's a bit surprising given where SK are at in the promotion cycle.

Been avoiding the pre-release singles and most of the noise. Looking forward to hearing the album.

xp Call the Doctor and Dig Me Out were exciting to hear for the first time I thought

lol at outic acting like Sleater Kinney, REM, and Husker Du fandom is some quirk of ILM like taking Big & Rich seriously or something

xp also felt that way about Chronic Town, Murmur, Metal Circus, Zen Arcade, New Day Rising

if you go back to like 2004 era ILM i'm sure there were plenty of posts dismissive of SK in a "ew, girl bands are so lame!" kind of way

I mean, a lot of people say the job of a producer is to become a temporary band member.

They (in fact it was Janet, iirc) sought her out as a collaborator. If the record had been billed as "Sleater-Kinney / St. Vincent" or "Sleater-Kinney featuring St. Vincent" or "Sleat Kincent" there would likely be very little hand-wringing over what St. Vincent did, when, how, and why.

That Uncle Greil take is gross.

my goodness imagine what Brian Eno did to Talking Heads!

lol

What I hear so far is a producer stealing the voice of people better than she is so that she’ll still be appearing In the fashion pages when they’re no longer competition.

this is incredibly gross

Tina Weymouth stuck around and got in some excellent digs at Byrne and Eno, Janet should have stayed and done the same.

the yoko ono bullshit about Clark is lame. Another producer with another band comes on board and changes the sound and they wind up sparking their creativity. Or maybe it's a poor match. whatever the case, the band's agency remains. In this case she's brainwashed them and oh no the expensive accessorizing.

That sneaky Annie Clark, how dare she bring any of her own musical personality to the table

ve always found ILM's collective pants-wetting over this band totally mystifying

What a perfect metaphor to use for a female band, can I borrow it? Thanks!

The other Janet Weiss would have had something to say about that.

Greil Marcus is such a weirdo.

I looked up my first ilx post from 2002 because of that ilx anniversary thread and was a tad confused why I was a bit mean about him. Now I am remembering.

worst movie of the year

Greil like to call a lot of female musicians frauds

the NYT piece winking at materialism and fashion labels feels weird with this all-female group, idk

and it's not exactly a stretch to say they were pretty consistently against that kind of thing on album after album

oh noes a band figuring out how to sell/stream albums in the 2010s has to rethink its strategy!

i think it's a fair point to question for a band who were once pretty well defined by something other than strategizing market success

i just don't think coming up with a band image is really similar...even if they credit some people who also happen to own a fashion line.

also i guess i never thought of S-K's feminism as being against idk wearing certain types of clothes or crafting a consistent aesthetic. i'm really not sure what the extraneous bullshit surrounding this is supposed to signify. i just don't believe a male band would catch the same flak.

y'all are treating the marketing of the album as if it were commensurate with how it was created. The album might suck! But all you dudes are getting weird on me.

and I'll repeat: in the last three weeks it's been dudes who have this precious idea of what S-K should sound like.

I wanna go on record saying having read that Marcus blurb, I thought it was subtly sexist and paternalistic. I don’t know if we’re in a place as a culture to have a conversation about why but I feel it’s important to say it. It’s what I feel and I think it warrants expression.

I am trying to figure out his issue with Annie Clark being a "fraud". So laughably cringetake.

Brownstein has been pretty styley for awhile now. This shouldn't be surprising.

xp lol

xpost maybe because the women who aged with SK can also afford to wear better clothes now and take an interest in clothes/image as another facet of expression/art.

"I don’t know if we’re in a place as a culture to have a conversation about why but I feel it’s important to say it. It’s what I feel and I think it warrants expression" :) lol

I love Annie Clark, I think all of her albums are excellent and she's a wonderful songwriter, producer, guitarist, and one of my favorite people in music. But I meant the interjections about her disliking the lyrics and trying to get them to change them...it just comes across a bit weird in that write up.

as an artistic criticism 'fraud' is usually directed at someone whose work has garnered praise and might be credited to be superficially attractive or even convincing but fundamentally does not have the substance or claim to innovation that real/serious art ought to have. i don't really know marcus' sense for the sort of music st vincent got established behind, but if i had to guess i would say it's not even in his ballpark, so it would not be a surprise if he were hostile to it. or maybe he's not fond of her david byrne association?

does marcus hate byrne?

i have no idea, maybe he likes him but disliked her careering off him

anyway, I will say I like the songs from this album more than anything off the Woods which I find unlistenable (last album was great). So maybe AC did a great job here. Maybe Janet felt sidelined; it sounds like it, just from how pally they are in that write up. But that write up could be from a very biased angle. Who the fuck knows. I don't think Janet cares now. I'm going to see Quasi. I'll probably still go see SK.

the write-up seems biased to present something specific. it seems like it needed a bit of controversy and it tries to find it in side comments and fashion choices and album credits, in lieu of anything actually scandalous.

That’s how the NY Times often works, they come up with an “angle” and then write a piece to reflect it.

i just don't think coming up with a band image is really similar...even if they credit some people who also happen to own a fashion line.

also i guess i never thought of S-K's feminism as being against idk wearing certain types of clothes or crafting a consistent aesthetic. i'm really not sure what the extraneous bullshit surrounding this is supposed to signify. i just don't believe a male band would catch the same flak.

― omar little, Monday, August 5, 2019 9:05 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't disagree, but Brownstein talks explicitly about coming up with a new band image and using fashion. Mentioning clothes in the context of the piece and CB's comments makes sense. Greil's take is obviously idiotic and grounded in stale Boomer Yoko resentment. as someone pointed out upthread, the dynamic between S-K and AC sounds very similar to Eno and the Talking Heads on Remain in Light. whether or not this new S-K album is Remain in Light is beside the point.

any band that slogged it out playing houses and dives and sleeping on floors only to break up bc of ill communication and exhaustion has every right to come back 10 years later when their fanbase has grown and their legacy has been solidified and they can perform for huge crowds. it's great and should not be looked down on, even if it's just a cash grab. they deserve the cash. it's a bonus imo that they're making new music, and Alfred otm they're trying something new, cool.

also just noticed I had an old zing draft at the top of my last post. for the record, "the worst movie of the year" is The Souvenir.

I was imagining a documentary in which greil Marcus just bashes on female musicians for 90 minutes

flappy is awesome until he realized he was obv wrong about The Souvenir.

"for the record, "the worst movie of the year" is The Souvenir."

that's what my east coast best best friend assures me everyone he knows is saying, makes me think I will really like it

I am encouraged to revisit it- or one of Hogg's previous films- after seeing how many ppl here & elsewhere loved it.
xp

off topic, but just saw that Archipelago is on the Criterion Channel

and Amazon

LOL

2. Father John Misty, Pure Comedy (Sub Pop) If a smooth croon with perfectly rounded syllables from a penitent wandering through our valleys of error is what you’re looking for, this is for you. Of course there’s an out: Father John Misty is a persona, one of those people, like St. Vincent, who you’re supposed to know is really Annie Clark, who perform as—who perform as artists of such pretentiousness you couldn’t possibly figure out how to talk to them. “Uh Ms., ah, Saint—” No, there’s no way to address a saint: to be a saint you have to be dead. “Father—Father John”—already, you’ve ceded all authority, even if the Lone Pilgrim says you can call him Josh Tillman. Such characters allow themselves to appear as if touched by God, which is what they’re selling, and laugh at you if you’re so square not to know who they really are: to join their club.

Wait til this guy finds out about Robert Zimmermann

that's a blurb more in need of kerosene than anything I've read in Pitchfork in the last decade

You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray
You may call me anything but no matter what you say

Still, you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
You're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody

Well, it may be Ella Marija Lani Yelich-O'Connor, or it may be Lorde

you can call her queen bee

Went to track down that Greil Marcus comment, and the first thing on his site is a defense of Al Franken in which he accuses Jeet Heer of virtue signaling. Not interested.

even "virtue signaling" is out of date lol

hey wait...did anyone else read that NYT piece like St. Vincent was now a part of SK?

Does she drum?

xp Yeah, it sounds like exactly the same dynamic as Eno & the TH on Remain in Light. Not uncommon.

Byrne delivers an interesting semi-dis of Eno in the Sand in the Vaseline liner notes.

something about Eno "wasn't really writing the material"?

I think in the case of TH it was an issue of Eno getting writing credit, aka money. Let's see how SK is credited, but SK not bringing in TH money.

actually can't comprehend the level of nosiness and bitchiness around weiss leaving this group. while i like what i've heard of SK, i'm not a listener, so maybe i'm missing something, but... fuck me, how/why did this become everyone's business? fans worried about them selling out? like, what? have only been checking in on this here and there. enlighten me.

xp (to Alfred) — yes, exactly:

...was great to work with until the others and I sensed him wanting us to be his back-up band... his source for ideas... but he wasn’t really “writing” the stuff. OK, enough.

I suspect Byrne tossed that in as a sop to the Weymouth-Frantz axis because of course Eno contributed riffs and melodies.

I just read that NY Times article and it was fairly long and I got to the end and was like, wait, the writer forgot to write about the music!

Par for the course these days

how/why did this become everyone's business

when did it not? who a band is and why they do what they do is always relevant to listeners, isn't it?

not really?

It's a band profile, not a record review?

we can play this game forever!

sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. based on weiss' departure and their change of musical direction and that article, this time it is!

It's a band profile, not a record review?

That's an interesting response. My feeling is that the article is about a musical group, though, and the central point of interest for such an article is...music.

Incorrect

It's not a question of correct or incorrect, I'm expressing a preference.

"did anyone else read that NYT piece like St. Vincent was now a part of SK?" yes, which was kind of what was annoying about it.

"how/why did this become everyone's business"

she was a lot of people's favorite person in the band?

That's an interesting response. My feeling is that the article is about a musical group, though, and the central point of interest for such an article is...music.

It talked about the process of making the album and what it sounds like, but it was a profile based on an interview in the direct aftermath of an integral member leaving the band.

If Dinosaur Jr. made a new album and Lou quit again right before it was released, there would probably be questions in a profile.

actually can't comprehend the level of nosiness and bitchiness around weiss leaving this group. while i like what i've heard of SK, i'm not a listener, so maybe i'm missing something, but... fuck me, how/why did this become everyone's business? fans worried about them selling out? like, what? have only been checking in on this here and there. enlighten me.

― meaulnes, Tuesday, August 6, 2019 11:59 PM (yesterday)

i mean you're right that it's no one's business but it's also kinda inevitable. i mean it was no one's business when the beatles broke up! ppl project all sorts of things on bands that they care about, and ppl care about this band a lot.

personally i'm still bummed that janet left but i've finally come around to enjoying/appreciating the new songs.

It talked about the process of making the album and what it sounds like

Not my belief that it really does the latter. Forty or so minutes of music, seemingly - I don't think using a few adjectives does much to talk about what that IS or what it sounds like.

You take the minimal descriptions of the music as a whole and they could add up to a million different things.

m.i.a. ate truffle fries

The result is “Love,” an affectionate catalog of the humilities of indie-rock life — those broke nights sleeping in the tour van — that crescendos into an unyielding bond. “We can be young/We can be old/As long as we have/Each other to hold,” Brownstein sings, as her bandmates provide a chorus with a bright throwback vibe. In Sleater-Kinney fashion, there’s also a turn toward anthemic fury: “Done with being told that this should be the end.”

“They were the classic things that Sleater-Kinney has always done so well, which is great guitar parts and big firework, lightning-in-a-bottle kind of songs,” Clark said, “but then there was this other side that I also felt in the demos — kind of an extra vulnerability from both of them.”

It came through in their vocals and subject matter, which both writers called unusually personal, taking on depression, suicidal thoughts and #MeToo. “Broken,” the wrenching piano ballad that closes the album, invokes Christine Blasey Ford.

Clark, Brownstein said, directed them to “not circumvent the emotion, but actually really delve into it.”

Production-wise, “I remember I was using the word ‘corrosive’ a lot,” Clark said, when she joined the group interview.

They wanted the album to sound “really gross,” Tucker, in contrasting lacy white, said, as her collaborators mmm-hmmmed in affirmation. “Like, disgusting, dirty, gross, dusty.” She went to a Depeche Mode show and got absorbed by synths; Clark and Brownstein saw Nine Inch Nails, and heard industrial.

The three or so weeks they spent in the studio with Clark were, to hear Brownstein and Tucker tell it, transformative. Choruses and bridges were revised; major keys were introduced; Tucker, whose raging vocals have helped define the group’s sound, sometimes sings two octaves higher than normal.

“She pushed us further,” Tucker said, just as they were ready for someone to challenge their instincts. (The trio similarly left its comfort zone making its sprawling 2005 album “The Woods;” after its bruising tour, they went on hiatus for nearly a decade.)

This time, the band pushed back, too. On the poppy “Love,” Clark questioned a Brownstein lyric: “There’s nothing more frightening and nothin’ more obscene/than a well-worn body demanding to be seen.” It’s essentially the album’s defining statement. Clark and Brownstein exchanged a look when I mentioned the line.

It’s something they discussed while conceiving “The Center Won’t Hold.” “This band is always a place for us to go when we feel vulnerable and fragile and angry,” Brownstein said. “It houses emotions that aren’t necessarily sanctioned in our day-to-day life, that people don’t make room for — because we can’t. You wouldn’t function if you allowed the ambient anxiety of the current era to permeate every cell.”

The lyric about the well-worn body was also asking, “How much can any of us withstand right now?” she added later. “All the characters, all the narrators — all of us in this album are seeking a means of resistance and withstanding pain. But I didn’t want to express that in a way that was like a screaming match. I wanted to give people something that buoyed them, that reached a chorus where they could sing together, and sing along with us.”

I know, I read it!

First quote - One of the songs is "affectionate." It has a "bright throwback vibe" and "there's also a turn toward anthemic fury." This is what I was talking about - that could be describing a million different things.

Second quote - Some general comments on lyrics. The music is "corrosive."

Third quote - More adjectives on that same point - "disgusting, dirty, gross, dusty." "Choruses and bridges were revised; major keys were introduced" - This tells me very, very little.

Fourth quote - Music that is not a screaming match, buoys people, "a chorus they could sing together." Could also be describing a million different things.

the writer forgot to write about the music!

Yes, that is what I said and that is what I am still saying.

I only read it once because of the pay wall, but didn't it say Clark pressured the band to deviate from minor keys to major keys? Or something like that?

xpost oh, there it is, sorry

It's an interview rather than a review, though, so... what's the problem? Most record reviews I read don't actually describe what the music sounds like anymore than a few adjectives. In fact to even mention major keys is practically musicology!

It would be funny if people wrote profiles the way many write record reviews, by constantly comparing the personalities of the band members to other people.

I dunno, people tend to disagree with me on this. My perspective is that the reason why there's a feature being written is because they are musicians, so I wonder why the art itself - the reason why we're talking about these people - tends to be such a minor thing of interest.

is there a piece you would cite that "talks about the music" to a satisfactory extent for you?

Why does "talks about the music" need to be in quotes? We know what talking about the music means.

do we tim

do we

Yes, it's when we identify the time and key signatures and discussion the means of modulation, etc. j/k

There's a Song Exploder episode now if people want to nitpick St Vincent's producing decisions some more

most times I feel lucky if there's even a description of the instrumentation/arrangements used

Yikes

pic.twitter.com/bRgHulyArq

— Janet Weiss (@jazzzhand) August 14, 2019

and I was about to post: the album is pretty good, different sonically obv.

damn can’t believe st vincent tried to assassinate janet weiss

Weiss knew they were going in a new direction, she should have been more careful.

who had access to the navigation system and when did they have it?!?!?

oh man poor janet :(
that sucks

Thank God she's OK and will be able to drum!

Damn

damn can’t believe st vincent tried to assassinate janet weiss

― (Appears only as a corpse) (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, August 14, 2019 9:31 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

irl lol, thanks for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fSXmrVJkeM

The new album is great imo, first listen through and enjoyed it mucho.

She went to a Depeche Mode show and got absorbed by synths; Clark and Brownstein saw Nine Inch Nails, and heard industrial.

Hoping it doesn't sound like this

The first song begins with a drone that reminded me of Some Great Reward.

https://www.stereogum.com/2054809/sleater-kinney-the-center-wont-hold-review/franchises/premature-evaluation/

breihan struggling with a record is a pretty sure sign i'll like it and think he's a wiener, reliable as the sunrise

I have many thoughts which I hope to see published tomorrow.

by sunrise???

good morning!

where's those tax returns st vincent??!?!1!!!

reach out is totally what i want from s-k doing depeche, great song

and restless! always like when they wear their go betweens influence proudly

This album is great

"reach out" is so sick

i pretty immediately like this way more than no cities. love what they did here

A bit too much of this reminds me of the harsh, plodding sound of The Woods (my least favourite S-K record) but "Reach Out," "LOVE" and "The Dog/The Body" are immediate standouts. I can really hear St. Vincent on the latter.

gonna go buy this now :)

This is really good at first pass

I like it, it's obviously not the greatest-ever SK album, but it's a good SK album in 2019, which I'm glad to have. What Annie Clark does for them, productionwise, reminds me most immediately of what Flood did for PJ Harvey -- provides a new sonic landscape for songs and ideas that still basically sound like Sleater-Kinney songs and ideas, but also the landscape itself helps shape the songs in ways that they wouldn't have found without it.

Having a *Name That Tune* fail on the beginning on the chorus in "Can I Go On." Wish I could put my finger on the song that reminds me of.

It's a better album than NCTL, which, for obvious reasons, played it safe.

It was probably a good idea to have a producer inject some creative decisions this time. A friend of mine did NCTL and he’s a great engineer and a great guy but he’d never dream of doing that with this band (and I’m sure they didn’t ask), which I’m sure is why that album sounds safe.

Having a *Name That Tune* fail on the beginning on the chorus in "Can I Go On." Wish I could put my finger on the song that reminds me of.

― timellison, Friday, August 16, 2019 2:06 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hmm I don't know and this is unrelated but my first impression of that song is that overall the tempo is just a little too slow?

Bad Dance intro sounds like Passtime Paradise.

Carrie sounds like she's singing "Bat Dance" on "Bad Dance."

First impression is that it's... fine. Don't really care about any of the songs until "RUINS," then there are a couple of good ones. It's not bad just mostly who cares - way more than the supposed St. Vincent influence (I only hear that on "Can I Go On") it sounds like an album where the two songwriters weren't in the same room while they wrote. Corin sounds fantastic on the songs where she takes the lead like "The Future Is Here."

haven't heard the album yet, heard "LOVE" on the radio today, before the singing came in I got a Sprockets flashback

Sprockets then into B-52s, it's awesome

way more than the supposed St. Vincent influence (I only hear that on "Can I Go On") it sounds like an album where the two songwriters weren't in the same room while they wrote.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, August 16, 2019 10:19 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

according to interviews this is in fact the cse

It's just an ok effort, kinda uneven (some good moments)

I love most of it -- their best since One Beat.

I also like this a lot. My appreciation also extends to the fact that they could easily have coasted with another NCTL type effort (I like that album but it is exactly what you’d expect from their comeback but Alfred otm in that it was understandable). They obviously aren’t fools, they remember some reactions to The Woods, they know any shift away from their expected sound would be met with some pushback. I admire the exploration.

Ooooof, Janet posted a note on Twitter with a gnarly photo of her post-crash leg.

Back to basics on the next one 4 sure

It's a better record than the shaky Fallon performance and advance tracks advertised. And it's much more interesting than just another wheelhouse-type record

The experimentation, when it works (RUINS), is good - other times it is trainwrecky - a couple Brownstein vocals (Hurry... and Can I Go On) are just tics upon tics

ditto some of the cutesy Basement Jaxx-ish bells and whistles - sometimes show-offy in a bad way

Tucker only rarely pulls out her big vocals - her lack of polish and vulnerability is especially marked given what we know she can do

Restless, Ruins, The Dog/The Body, Broken are pretty great

Ruins channels some remain in light sh1t

I've tried it twice now and can't vibe with this shit at all. The problem (for me) isn't just that it's a shift away from the S-K formula, but that it's an out of date shift. I'd have eaten these songs up ca. 2007-08, but now I couldn't give less of a fuck about anything that sounds like this...from any band.

S-K has a formula?

See: all the albums except this one and The Woods.

wow like to don't hear an evolution from the first album to the hot rock?

I said formula, not carbon copies.

They certainly stretched the edges the deeper they got in their career, but this one and The Woods are outliers. C'mon, don't be cheeky.

Hot Rock almost as much of an outlier imo!

i think of hot rock as kind of an inlier

but Hot Rock is still a guitar record (and their best)

And the idea that Sleater-Kinney had a formula!

(Kisses, Johnny)

Hot Rock let me down at the time, but loved One Beat and The Woods. Not sure I've ever given HR a fair return listen.

What do I know? My favorite S-K album is AHOTBO, which everyone seemed to hate then and also now. One Beat was a big disappointment and then The Woods was a big dud.

i agree about that, the disappointment. probably in the long run i suppose i most preferred hot rock, although there's no preference for that that can do without the highs of dig me out / call the doctor

Call The Doctor thru AHOTBO is band's sweet spot.

I super love Ballad Lady Man on AHOTBO and just referred someone to You're No RnR Fun for something poppier to start with.

I think Hot Rock/All Hands is the peak

All Hands is probably my fav, I know lots of ppl who love it, I didn't know people didn't like it

Ugh, The Bsllad of a LadyMan. I feel obligated to correct this somehow.

or Hot Rock is the best, I go back n forth

I think Call the Doctor, Dig Me Out and The Hot Rock came out during an optimal time period for indie. Once the century turned over, it was fast churning over.

I am listening to Ballad of a Ladyman and those lyrics. Ugh. so good.

Huh, I forgot All Hands existed, not because I didn't like it because I only listen to this band so often, and when I do I usually go Dig Me Out or One Beat. Dunno when or if I'll listen to the new one, but I like your collective enthusiasm.

Like I said, I love the album. I relished how well they wrote about their bodies, and the arrangements reflect this development.

after two listens i'm with JF, it never lets you forget that it's been *produced*

It's not even that. It would've sounded great to me in... 2007, where it lives.

as that era of indie rockers matures it makes sense to expect that a lot of them would start to lag the times, wouldn't it? like 70s rockers who release albums in the 80s that affected 5+years dated sounds maybe

Yep.

I love AHOTBO and One Beat - from Call the Doctor through One Beat I don't think there's a peak, they're all great and pretty different.

I've always said the closest point of comparison may be Fugazi. All the albums are very different, but it's not a linear evolution so much as an ... expansion?

finally listening to the new one for the first time and...it's really not that huge a departure? it's certainly still primarily guitar-driven!

And generally speaking the synths tend to be doing guitar-like things.

yes, otm

agreed

Here's a review that gets it wrong.

But on the new album, the guitars are constrained, ceding space to keyboards and electronic beats; often, they’re content to repeat neatly deployed hooks. Instead of tense, fluctuating human friction, there’s layered pop architecture.

Bullshit. Flesh and blood vs machines, inspiration vs craft. I thought Pareles was too wise for these binaries.

breihan struggling with a record is a pretty sure sign i'll like it and think he's a wiener, reliable as the sunrise

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:24 PM (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

i like the record, and i think it's funny that the one song Breihan singled out as "the one true miracle" (LOVE) is probably my least favorite song on first pass

just jammed this on the subway and i love the entire second half, especially "bad dance" and "the dog/thebody" (one of the best s-k tracks ever imo)

"the dog/thebody" (one of the best s-k tracks ever imo)

man otm, it's like a hot rock-style verse with a chorus they borrowed from, like, ex hex

that song stuck out to me too.

the best

Yep that was the only one I immediately played again the first time thru.

Really enjoying this album overall. It might end up being my most-played new SK album since All Hands.

My boy.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/janet-weiss-healing-fund

Man that's fucked up. But now I'll just pretend she couldn't do the SK tour because of injury .

I completely forgot that One Beat existed until now. TBH to me SK's great albums are Doctor and Dig, and Hot Rock to a lesser extent. Though 'you're no rock and roll fun' is still my favorite song of theirs.

one beat is still their best imo

disagree but it has their best song (sympathy)

I found the opening track disappointing when I first heard it a few weeks ago, but I love it now. This is one of their greatest records, and I probably (slightly) prefer it to The Woods (though One Beat is still my fave).

"the dog/thebody" (one of the best s-k tracks ever imo)

otm.

And their first post-Janet show is tomorrow night. Any word on who's drumming with them?

I was thinking of going but the venue has already been changed because of Dorian and at this point I don’t foresee my ass being willing to drive in the deluge to get there

I was thinking of going but the venue has already been changed because of Dorian and at this point I don’t foresee my ass being willing to drive in the deluge to get there

St. Vincent made Dorian

"Dorian" does sound like the name of a person she'd sing about.

I like this record a lot, but are there really only 3 tracks with lead vocals by Corin? Kind of feels like it’s a bit of a waste to keep her/her voice on the sidelines on so much of the record. I know Sleater Kinney as The Carrie Brownstein new wave band is much more marketable at the moment, but I miss their interplay.

(I think it's 4 tracks w/Corin on lead actually)

So this show happened, right? Who is the new drummer?

angie boylan of freezing cold

https://www.linkedin.com/in/angie-boylan-a86b0365

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/sleater-kinneys-new-drummer-is-angie-boylan-watch-their-first-show-together/

Oh wow I didn't know Janet left the band!

Um...

Janet's...been through some stuff recently.

Took a while but I've finally realized that "Ruins" is wholly rad. Also, got teary-eyed during the chorus of "Can I Go On" today.

Awesome show last night. They played "Step Aside"!

Scorching in Austin tonight. Carrie is in full Rock Star Mode. It was Corin's birthday. Angie Boylan is a sure-footed & fast drummer. A bunch of the older numbers were practically thrash--even "Good Things" was sprightly! Checking out setlist.fm, I see they doing fairly locked-down setlists aside from the encores. And I do believe they played everything from The Center Won't Hold, plus the new vinyl & digital single "Animal". 29 songs total.

Great interview with Janet about the break up and her career

https://www.thetrapset.net/230-janet-weiss-quasi-sleater-kinney-wild-flag-elliott-smith-etc/

That was quite moving. Janet seems like an awesome person.

Yeah, the whole thing--her career in all her bands, the breakup of SK, the way she approaches her work. All so endearing.

And stunning how Carrie and Corin changed Janet's role.

The conversation that resulted in the blunt "yes you're just the drummer; not creative equal here" must have been a heated argument. I just can't imagine it being so harshly put via honesty alone. I can only imagine the context being used as a convenient way to end a frustrating argument quickly.

this podcast didn't make me want to see SK ever again

Janet said "they made this album sort of without me," while Carrie said, "she’s raved about this album to us and to Annie." Curious what accounts for the wild divergence.

Carrie also said, "We asked her to stay"...so..."You're just the drummer, but please stay with us in your diminished role!"

I remember the only time I saw them, in 2003 or so, one of the openers was Smoosh, a keyboard and drums duo of adolescent sisters. When SK went on they told some story about backstage chatter with Smoosh in which the drummer expressed outrage that drummers tend to not get songwriting credits, pointing out that her sister didn’t write her drum parts.

I love Smoosh!

Oh I remember them, apparently they are 'Chaos Chaos' now?

Yeah, I really need to check them out as CC -- She Like Electric is one of my favorite albums of the '00s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XX_fg-R_4

i didn't really care much for either of the last two albums but this one's quite nice

It's really catchy!

not bad, but the warm posi vibes of this song/video and the album title can't help but weird me out, knowing how the split went down... it ain't fair probably but :/

I just want more Corin vocals.

xp yeah i totally get that. i'm still pretty baffled by the split and no doubt janet's presence will be missed here

xxp: yeah, I didn't even give Center Won't Hold more than one or two listens, primarily because of that.

it's just not the same band
like it's fine I guess but

janet was totally more of a third guitarist than a drummer

i loved the center won't hold though

This is a good song!

chorus is v wild flag to me which... not my fave personally but i will check out this record regardless

I preferred Center's experiments to the holding pattern of NCTL, no matter how good the latter was.

"the dog/the body" is one of my favorite s-k tracks of *all time*

yep

chorus is v wild flag to me which... not my fave personally but i will check out this record regardless

This is a good call, thought the same thing.

I know it's not fair of me, especially considering Janet wasn't even a founding member, but I feel like I'd be more charitable if this was released under a different project name. It's fine, it just doesn't feel like Sleater-Kinney to me. And, yes, I understand this is more my hang-up, but it's true.

Just not feeling Carrie-led songs from the last album or this, even more than missing Janet (I didn't care for Wild Flag either).

It's...fine. It just sounds kinda average. No Weiss, no dice.

I liked the last 2 records but NCTL is more of a full band record, where Center feels more of a Carrie/St Vincent thing with a little Corin in there. It doesn’t feel like SK to me unless there is a lot of Corin/Carrie interplay. Interesting to see how the (full) departure of Janet changes things.

Serious question, is this the most people have ever cared about a drummer leaving a band/being fired/replaced?

add "dying" and you get Bonham and Moon

this song is ok. Center was meh. I might go to this tour though, I haven't seen Wilco since YHF and I heard enough good things about the Janet-less SK tour that I regretted not going.

the nature of the departure was extra jarring because it seemed to fly in the face of their stated politics to some extent xps

it sounded like it was basically 'creative differences' when it came down to it, but played out in about the worst possible way

this song is ok. Center was meh. I might go to this tour though, I haven't seen Wilco since YHF and I heard enough good things about the Janet-less SK tour that I regretted not going.

― akm, Tuesday, May 11, 2021 9:37 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

wilco has quietly turned into one of the great live bands over the past decade or so

A pleasant surprise, in that I was listening to TCWH the other week, thinking then it felt like a final chapter.

But then came the announcement email this morning, and I like this and am interested in hearing more.

Is Angie Boylan still drumming with them and just getting the Daryl Jones treatment?

it's Eric Carr I think

I'm listening to TCWH now and it's a total jam, love it.

XP Anton Figg!

I know it's not fair of me, especially considering Janet wasn't even a founding member

No, but she shaped and defined their sound and approach as much as (or arguably more than) Carrie and Corin. I mean, Neil Peart wasn't a founding member of Rush.

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

I think it's fair to say, setting aside whether it's been a successful transition or not, there was a fundamental change in the sound of the band between NCTL and TCWH, so I'm not terribly surprised to see the reaction. S-K was a band that people took very dearly to heart, so it doesn't seem that weird to see people expressing a strong opinion on the shift.

Well, sure. I love them too. But, you know, shit happens. I don't mind anyone thinking TCWH sucks.

I don't think it sucks, it's just not what I was looking for in a S-K album and I've not returned to it nearly as much as I have the rest of their catalog.

I think the wild reactions also come down to the remnants of the "sell out" bullshit surrounding any tangentially "punk" band from the '90s.

I'll admit, I'm mystified by the reaction in the last two years. They're not the first band to lose a crucial member, nor the first to get credible accusations of bad faith.

^^In general it's wise to avoid FB comments, but I got curious and it seems like every other post is "Bring Back Janet" with the occasional side dish of "St. Vincent Ruined S-K", while another guy (always a guy, speaking of the new single) saying that Janet was fired so they could make "Taylor Swift Music".

it was a relatively ugly split especially with janet's side of the story not making carrie & corin seem very sympathetic at all, so i can understand why people were particularly upset, especially with janet being so beloved & crucial to the band

if they'd just amicably split because corin & carrie wanted to go in one direction & janet wanted to go in another, or at least smoothed over the interpersonal conflicts much more in their public statements, then people wouldn't have had quite as strong of a reaction (though i'm sure everyone would still be sad to see janet go)

of course the album that prompted the split being a change in direction that wasn't that well received by the fanbase didn't help at all either

this isn't bad, and who knows what the real story is, it's just for me personally, rock bands are basically about the dynamics of how certain people play together, that musical chemistry otherwise honestly why are you even listening to rock music?

and without janet, it's just a different dynamic. i'm sure that corin and carrie will write some good catchy tunes but it's not particularly interesting to me i'd rather just listen to something else

also with the selling out bullshit, honestly, I get why they would do this. This doesn't really feel like Sleater-Kinney to be but so what, they built the band and frankly they could both right the identical songs, identical productions, everything and if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best.

so why not? it doesn't diminish the original run of s/t through the woods

Oh, to be clear, I'm not saying they "sold out". It's been an undercurrent of a lot of the bullshit "St. Vincent ruined the band" stuff though , unfortunately.

I hold nothing against the evolution of the band and I don't blame them for wanting to shake things up, I just wish I liked the new direction as much as I liked the older stuff. I mean, The Woods was a pretty big curveball for them at the time, I still adore that one.

I still find the last album incredibly moving and love every song, nothing has really changed that. New song's pretty good.

I love TCWH -- easily my favorite S-K, up there with One Beat. And it sounds/feels like S-K; my initial impression of the opening song was that it felt forced, but I don't hear it that way anymore, and Janet's presence is essential to what makes TCWH great.

The new song feels tentative, though. It also reminds me a lot of this (which is not why I think it feels tentative, tbc):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaEZ8k7K44o

The level of personal identification fans had with S-K makes the response unsurprising to me. Add in that they were so much stronger together than separately (except for Janet, ironically - Wild Flag and the Corin Tucker Band were not great, Quasi rules) for a topper.

The St. Vincent storyline was unfair to her and the band, the last album being written remotely and traded back and forth via Logic Pro files seemed like a much bigger issue.

the 'st vincent ruined the band' thing seemed to be a combination of people unhappy with the different musical direction and looking for someone to blame for the interpersonal conflict, and of course st vincent being carrie's ex fuelled that narrative further in line with classic misogynistic rock narratives

The irony of the wrongheaded "St. Vincent ruined them!" take is that it was Janet's idea to bring in St. Vincent.

Re: Change Display Name

Dave Abbruzzese’s firing from Pearl Jam comes to mind, as it really showed the band’s vindictive and petty nature, and it left a bitter taste for many fans. His crime? Probably doing too many of the publicity rounds that Epic was asking them to undertake

He bought a flashy new car that Vedder didn't like.

Bill Berry & REM?

Berry/R.E.M. is interesting, as the band

1. Never formally found a replacement

2. Berry became a huge cheerleader of the group’s efforts without him

I got the sense that decision was more driven by Berry? just not wanting the grind anymore, or at least that is my memory

Yes, Berry was deeply unhappy with touring and the responsibilities of being in a major label’s flagship band, and he realized he never needed to work again

I was thinking more like in fan reaction ("It hasn't been the same since Bill left maaaan..."), and how it gave lie to the whole "If one of us stops, we all stop" ethos that REM had prior to his exit.

Ultimately not the best example.

He'd had a near-death experience (aneurysm) on their last (?) tour, and wanted to live on a farm. iirc, he made sure to wait until whatever big album-tour cycle was over, so as not to leave them scrambling for a replacement. But yeah, it was Berry's decision, though he did say, "If you break up because I'm leaving, then I won't leave."

GnR fans mostly prefer Steven Adler to Matt Sorum these days, but I don't remember there being a big backlash when Steven was kicked out.

Feel like Queens of the Stone Age fans have some passionate opinions about their drummer rotation as well. "When are they gonna bring Dave back, maaaaan?" But no one's stopped buying their albums because of it.

lol xp to c. grisso on the "maaaaan"

no qotsa fan in their right mind would sub grohl for jon theodore

I really never thought of Grohl as part of the band

with Queens I feel like pre and post Nick Oliveri is a thing

Oh yeah, the Nick opinions are fiercer.

xp: agreed, but...

Tracklist:

1. Path of Wellness
2. High In The Grass
3. Worry With You
4. Method
5. Shadow Town
6. Favorite Neighbor
7. Tomorrow's Grave
8. No Knives
9. Complex Female Characters
10. Down The Line
11. Bring Mercy

Lots of bands have of course lost and gained members, drummers included. I think the vibe I get from this sort of situation is that S-K as Carrie, Corin & Janet felt like a team, a unit, and then they collectively tossed in the towel and took a final bow as S-K together. Granted, no bands ever seem to break up anymore, but that aside, the reunion made the most impact as a unit as well, like the return of your favorite team. When Janet left it felt ... less than amicable. Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be. A bit like when Dave Lombardo left or was kicked out of Slayer at various points. When someone so seemingly key is made to look replaceable or expendable, it kind of pokes a hole in the whole illusion of invincible indivisibility, us against the world. Now, does it matter? Probably not, but it does change the personality (literally and figuratively) of the band a bit.

Another good example might be Cheap Trick without Bun E.. Like, Black Sabbath, they have hated each other for years, so firing Bill Ward was very much in cynical character. But Cheap Trick also felt like a team, and Bun E. was pushed out under less than honorable circumstances. Which may explain why he remains (post litigation) a shareholder in Cheap Trick, Inc., and iirc gets paid even as the band plays without him.

Which in turn made it seem like the team was less a team, less a unit, and more Corin and Carrie, plus Janet, which felt a little like at least a symbolic betrayal of what they were, or at least appeared to be.

and of course according to janet that was the exact reason for the split - the other two weren't interested in having her be a creative equal anymore

https://img.discogs.com/rrNQTV3KaDzDmeIrm1k-SWNBGNA=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-7857718-1450289587-1336.jpeg.jpg

The Woods remains fantastic.

if it said "Carrie Brownstein" or "Corin Tucker Band" on the cover no one would care. their solo tours would probably draw 1/3 of the crowds at best

I was curious, so I checked out Corin's solo page on Spotify, and--while I know those two albums were a long time ago and even then they weren't super well-promoted or toured behind--I was shocked that her current monthly listeners count is 404. As in 4 over 400.

For comparison, Wild Flag have 5,783.

And Sleater-Kinney have 319,647.

wow yeah that's even lower than I thought

that first Wild Flag record rules

Curated Playlist of Inspirations for the new one:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1YdiSxLyGMa6z2EEVMTqxm?si=atrgu3HzQL6wq4_FRi8qog

Genesis! Rufus! Armatrading!

not much to glean from that except that the new alb will prob emphasize keyboards of some kind

I was curious, so I checked out Corin's solo page on Spotify, and--while I know those two albums were a long time ago and even then they weren't super well-promoted or toured behind--I was shocked that her current monthly listeners count is 404. As in 4 over 400.

For comparison, Wild Flag have 5,783.

Heavens to Betsy has 18,392 monthly listeners though.

New Interview: https://www.vulture.com/article/interview-sleater-kinney-carrie-brownstein-corin-tucker-path-of-wellness.html

Vulture: In 2019, Janet Weiss suggested that she had been shut out of decision-making processes in the band and that was why she left. I’m curious how you feel about that characterization.

CB: I mean, anyone who thinks there aren’t multiple perspectives and sides to this is either being willfully ignorant or perhaps lacks their own real-life experience. To be honest, I’m not interested in continuing to talk about something that really seems to revel in female cattiness and conjecture and confirmation bias.

Carrie is also going to direct a Heart biopic.

sounds like no love lost between them and Janet, that's unfortunate

Heavens to Betsy has 18,392 monthly listeners though.

That's impressive! I do wonder how much of that comes from algorithms bumping tracks as 'related' programming after S-K/Bikini Kill/etc. albums.

FWIW, Filthy Friends currently have 804 monthly listeners. One one hand I get it because I only know about their second album because I get emails from Kill Rock Stars, but otoh I thought REM stans would be more supportive.

No Spotify in senior living facilities.

It's The End of The World As We Know It (And Get Off My Lawn!)

New Corin Song & Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkPJtv32WtA

very nice

yeah, love that

Ooh this is good

Sounds kinda like ... Pavement?

^^I can say for a fact that whenever I listen to either new single on Spotify, the subsequent 'song radio' always plays Pavement and Wire and Hole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O11TZvnHtmg

another good one, it already seems like i'll enjoy this album a lot more than the last two

Somebody's playing one of those St. Vincent guitars!

Only two listens in on this one, but thinking this is the least of the tracks so far. OTOH, "Worry With You" needed a few spins past that to get fully hooked in me, and "High In The Grass" was Love at first listen, so the bar is high.

I think S-K are my #1 band for when I love them I LOVE them, but when I can't stand a track I really can't listen to it. This is one of the unlistenable ones for me. I still love them as a band but I don't think there's a single LP I love all the way through

Album launch special on Amazon's Twitch is glitch af, channel just went offline for the second time. #ThanksBezos

Was listening to Dig Me Out for the first time in years and boy it was nice when Carrie's vocals weren't intolerably mannered

Only the last one is meh

ooh, totally forgot I can go buy this tomorrow

album is nice, kinda exactly what i'd want out of them branching out their sound & mellowing out a little at this point in their career. so much better than the last two albums

Definitely liking this on first listen, very different mood than the last two albums. This is probably their loosest, grooviest record? Feels more influenced by blues/psychedelic rock than punk. As jammy and noisy as The Woods was, those songs were pretty taut and clenched.

the one thing from their classic sound i do miss on this one is the overlapping vocal lines they used to do so well. otherwise it just feels like they're aging gracefully

after one drunken listen i feel like it's, you know, fine

also i hate it because it's nowhere near as good as 20+ years ago, and neither am i, and i don't want to begrudge their middle-aged art not living up to my middle-aged yet naive expectations of them, because they absolutely can do whatever they like, but also somehow i'd feel much better about it all if janet were involved

Tiny Desk Concert (Includes new arrangement of "One Beat")

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/01/1011298139/sleater-kinney-tiny-desk-home-concert

Really like that version of One Beat. There’s also some good live performances of the new songs on their official YouTube channel. Enjoying the new backing band.

oh no they're teasing something

— sleater kinney struggle tweets (@skfanstruggle) September 24, 2023

pic.twitter.com/oUl1YpmNUr

— sleater kinney struggle tweets (@skfanstruggle) September 26, 2023

The little audio clip on the FB teaser sounds BIG, Center Won't Hold-style w/skronk horns or something.

Also HBD CARRIE

On closer inspection (headphones on): Skronk Horns = Distorted Screaming/Wailing

Why did no-one tell me about this covers album from last year? Is it terrible?

Literally the only thing I ever saw/heard about it was the middling Pitchfork review. It sunk pretty fast, which tells you something, I guess. Never heard it myself.

It's not very good, although I remember liking the Margo Price, Linda-Lindas, and Isbell-Shires tracks. Also forgot that Low did "Dance Song '97". The Wilco is awful.

yeah really liked the margo price cover

Thank you for not telling me about that covers album, it's one of the worst things I've ever heard :(

(tbf a couple were ok but wow, I did not need to hear One More Hour covered by Wilco)

New album, Little Rope, out in January.

Not going to lie, part of me still held out hope that the announcement might feature the miracle return of Janet.

just realised I never listened to the last one, might not even have known it existed. tbf I didn't like the 2019 album much at all so maybe I did know about it and just ignored it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7uo98b_Pk

Single "Hell" (video semi-NSFW)

^^It's a Corin song btw

Hmm. It's ... OK. Reminds me of some of the stompier stuff from The Woods. But yeah, this phase of the Corin-Carrie project just doesn't excite me much.

made it about halfway through that song; it's alright I guess, but the magic is just gone for me.

meh

every time they put out something new I hold out hope that I'll really love it but TBH I haven't loved an album since All Hands on the Bad One so I don't know why I think there's going to be a return to form.

No Cities to Love was fine, The Center Won't Hold outstanding as a palate cleanser: if they needed a sound for a post-Weiss project, THIS was it.

The last album was a non-entity.

Will probably be used as the end-credits song of the 3rd to last episode season 2 of the next hit drama. It will be good for that sort of thing. Oh man, that episode was nuts! Things are really ramping up. What a cliffhanger. Anyway. Oh is the next episode up? Oh good, yeah click next episode.

I heard "No Cities" once, don't remember a thing about it. I don't think I ever heard "The Center Won't Hold." Didn't even know "Path to Wellness" existed, tbh. In as much as I need Sleater-Kinney in my life these days, I certainly don't need these albums. More bands should break up.

That said, Wild Flag should get back together.

I like No Cities and The Center, both have some songs I'd rescue for a S-K playlist. But it's all starting to feel like '00s U2 or something.

I have more thoughts, but right now after listening again on Spotify, the algorithm has thrown Cat Power's "He War" at me, and damned if that one isn't one of the best fake Sleater-Kinney songs EVAH.

Absolutely forgot the last album even happened, that feels a bit sad. This is alright. I always love to hear Corin's voice but I miss when they sounded nimble and off-kilter, hopping from foot to foot. Got genuine enthusiasm for some of the stompy, swaggery moments but it's not my favourite mode, especially paired with glossy production, so I haven't really loved anything since they got back together.

I see the temptation to pin any falling off on Janet leaving, Carrie getting more famous and taking more control etc, but this all probably set in with parts of One Beat, and the moments of brilliance on that album plus the sonic changes on the Woods made it harder to see coming. Just realised I'm essentially pining for an iteration of this band that hasn't existed for 20 years so feels churlish to complain - might still try to catch them in November when they're here.

Eh, those albums still exist, and just because the band pulled a Pixies doesn't negate them. In fact, the new records (in both cases) make those formative albums albums sound more alive than ever.

i think in the end I really only love call the doctor and dig me out, and that's enough. impeccable albums, both nearly perfect. hard for anyone to live up to those.

No Cities To Love: Coming back without missing a beat, exactly the album you'd have expected from them in 2015, breakup or no breakup (the two Corin solo lps are a effective bridge).

Center Won't Hold: The songwriting is very experimental, demands the production to create a through line, er holding things together from start to finish. A definitive example of a veteran act challenging themselves and succeeding. "Hurry On Home" is All-Time, Top 5 S-K.

Path of Wellness: This album wouldn't have existed but for the pandemic. Because of those circumstances, Corin & Carrie went the Steely Dan route, bringing in various ringers as conditions would allow. Ultimately not the best way to make this band's music. Starts strong, ends well, but gets lost and confused in the middle.

"Hell": As it initially unfolded, I wanted more of the fast chorus, which was delivered as it went along. Cautiously optimistic about the album. Who's drumming?

Little Rope Tracklist:

01. Hell
02. Needlessly Wild
03. Say It Like You Mean It
04. Hunt You Down
05. Small Finds
06. Don’t Feel Right
07. Six Mistakes
08. Crusader
09. Dress Yourself
10. Untidy Creature

One of the Six Mistakes is placing that as track #7.

https://consequence.net/2023/10/sleater-kinney-little-rope-2024-tour-dates/

The follow-up to 2021’s Path of Wellness is billed as “one of the finest, most delicately layered records” in Corin Tucker and Carrie Brownstein’s prolific discography. But in its complex, ambitious instrumentation is an unimaginable tragedy: Last fall, Brownstein received a call from Italian embassy staff with the news that both her mother and stepfather had been killed in a car accident during a vacation.

Some of Little Rope had been written at that point, but as Brownstein and Tucker brought the material to the studio, all the music they put to tape became imbued with grief. With each vocal harmony and guitar riff, the album navigates loss — not just its initial pang, but how it transforms us and our subsequent relationships forever.

Wow, hadn't heard about that. How sad.

I feel like one of their secret weapons was corin/carrie trading vocals mid-song and/or singing two things at the same time. Wish they would get back to that more.

^^That's part of what sinks most of the covers on the DMO tribute. Imagine JEFF TWEEDY handling both parts of "One More Hour"! <JEFF TWEEDY>

xp otm x10000 that was my first love

New Song!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp2z1cL6qoU

Seeing them tonight. Liked the new song on first listen

OMG Gerri! <3

Song sounds kinda toned down for S-K

One More Hour <3 <3 <3

Really glad I went to that, I hadn't seen them in 23 years. They played a warm up gig at a venue I used to see punk bands like GBH and Conflict at when I lived in London. It sold out in minutes obviously. So much better than seeing them at the Roundhouse where they're playing on Friday which is like 5000 people Vs 250.

I wasn't into the post-reformation stuff that much but it made sense live mixed with the old stuff. They played that new song they released today last.

They covered Low covering them and dedicated it to Mimi which was touching for a few reasons

What's the current live band looking like, personnel-wise?

They had a 3rd guitarist, drummer and keyboard player with them

Thanks! Sounds like they're keeping the setup from the post-Janet tours.

"Say It Like You Mean It" on Kimmel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvPna_wBRYM

I've not been paying too much attention to the new stuff but the lack of Janet is super apparent here!

By the way before anyone says how sick they are of hearing that sentiment, let me reiterate that I've not been paying attention. I am merely aware that it's probably the sort of thing that's getting old to hear about. Too lazy to scroll up and check though sorry.

classic internet post

my best work

tbh I was very unhappy about what happened with Janet. I did wonder if something else was going there because I read an interview with Carrie recently when she said she just wanted Janet to be well. Is Janet... unwell? I don't know.

I really didn't like The Centre Won't Hold much, but they were great live recently and I liked the new songs live. So I think I'm back on the bus

Another New Corin Song!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hUUGdb2qoE

Going out on a limb and saying if you didn't like the prior two singles, you probably won't be into this one either.

"Small Finds" might be my favorite S-K track since "Hurry On Home".

cautiously ...... i like this album, I think.

album cover is reminiscent of böc

ok I listened to this album 2x today already and I do like it. maybe I should revisit the last one, which I never gave much attention.

this rules. tho I've really liked all the recent albums.

"cautiously" I like this album has been our MO since 2015

I have no idea how I missed Path of Wellness, I probably gave it a perfunctory listen on release but going back to it now it’s great. New one is solid so far too. Center is still their post-reunion best though I think

Wow. POW is the only innocuous, forgettable S-K album I own. I can't hum a single line.

hmm, it's very catchy

I really like this one, way more than expected.

this is way better than any other of the new ones

I don't think it's better than No Cities to Love, but better than the last two by a comfortable margin.

oh yeah but that's a janet record, sort of consider them two different bands was talking about post janet

center was also a janet record, which is easy to forget. it just isn't very good.

she played on it but had no creative input iirc

that's the one that made he quit on the whole st vincent deal

Lindsay Zoladz , NY Times critic in part on new album:

. The new LP has more oomph and darkness than the band’s self-produced 2021 LP “Path of Wellness” and more emotional resonance than its mechanical 2019 effort “The Center Won’t Hold.” But even in its wildest moments, when compared to the band’s mightiest work, “Little Rope” sounds unfortunately diminished and curiously restrained.

The Center Won’t Hold was the album I wanted after No Cities to Love: a break from their sound. I still listen to it.

i can't stand it tbh

I hear ya.

okay on to the positive - "Say It Like You Mean It" - wow what a chorus (yr contractually obligated to refer to a chorus like this as "soaring"), incredible hook and melody

I'm intrigued by this one. It's kind of a bummer how their reputation basically collapsed after JW left (I think that break was possibly even more acrimonious than she let on in her occasional interviews on the subject), but they were too great to be dismissed based on that alone and i'm always ready to give them a chance.

this one doesn't have that feeling where you're trying to talk yourself into it or "oh isn't this an interesting direction" i just like it like it

yeah the album feels more natural, they don't appear to be trying to compensate for anything or really 'trying something new', it's just got a bunch of good songs.

saw them last night in SF at the Warfield (they are playing again tonight,but it was moved to the Regency because I think these two shows undersold). I didn't have high expectations even though I do like this album, mainly because the show I saw after Center was so underwhelming. But they were really good. It's obviously not 1999 anymore and I'm no longer 28 and neither are they, but this was as good as I could have hoped for.

the crowd was fucking annoying as shit though, I seem to have stood right in the area of a bunch of entitled babies. LIke when I came in, some guy actually grabbed my arm and moved me out of the way because I guess I blocked his view. I almost punched him. Later, near the end of the show, when I cautiously took out my camera to take a quick video, some lady grabbed me and said "I can't see a fucking thing if your phone is there" Ok yeah, that's been happening to me all night. She also grabbed my son when he walked by her and said "oh no girl, uh uh" because he briefly blocked her line of sight for four seconds. wtf is wrong with everyone.

yeah ppl dont know to be at shows anymore

when i was at margo price at the fillmore this woman was fully complaining that people were moving into her spot and i’m like it’s not yours, the crowd moves, so you do too, just fucking adjust and grow the fuck up

Little Rope Deluxe Edition: https://pitchfork.com/news/sleater-kinney-announce-little-rope-deluxe-share-video-for-new-song-watch/

New Song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWcvPJadBb0

I picked up a copy of The Center Won't Hold and gave it a good listen, cranking it up on the stereo, and was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed it. I tried listening to it when it came out, albeit streaming on a computer, and I couldn't get into it. I just agreed with the backlash among so many fans, but since then I've come across enough positive dissenters and re-evaluations that I figured I'd give it another chance someday. Glad I did.