PAVEMENT VS SOUNDGARDEN

Cause they tied in that recent dumb guitar poll

Soundgarden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavement

BIG DUMB POLL

all guitar bands are interchangeable

Really like Pavement. Fucking love Soundgarden.

Really like Pavement. Fucking love Soundgarden.

(sry)

In my stranger moments I’d like to hear Matt Cameron on Slanted and Enchanted-era Pavement

both great but come on now

Ha, I actually don't know which one you prefer.

It's tough but I don't think I can vote against the number of times I listened to Badmotorfinger and Superunknown.

Both great

Me Age 19-25: Soundgarden
Me Age 26-44: Pavement
Me Age 45-47: Soundgarden

this reminds me that i need to post something unrelated

the fall vs REM

Me Age 15-19: Soundgarden
Me Age 20-25: Pavement
Me Age 26-the grave: Soundgarden

Soundgarden is probably better, but I'm more likely to throw on Pavement these days.

lol, Simon pretty close to the mark except I'd probably constrict my Pavement period even further, probably like 3-4 years tops.

Pavement was never as important to me as Badmotorfinger was during my early high school years.

I checked the 90s list I posted here in the early 00s, thinking that might have been around the time when I was most likely to pick Pavement but, nope.

Come to think of it, I bet I got my Down on the Upside and Brighten the Corners tapes a few months apart, ages 9-10. Seems like a turning point in hindsight.

badmotorfinger is a mighty force & was a massive moment but I get off the train after that whereas Pavement made a bunch of records I like

Soundgarden

joantm

pavement not close

I have never knowingly heard Soundgarden and Pavement ist rad

how in the hell have you not heard Soundgarden

Idk if the offer was ever made, but soundgarden would’ve killed it better on Space Ghost

I voted, but I can't check back when the poll ends in case y'all get this super-duper wrong

pavement

I've never made it through a whole Pavement song. I listen to Soundgarden a couple of times a month, and they're one of the bands I genuinely regret never having seen live.

they’re both bad, i choose death

“Death by PAVEMENT & SOUNDGARDEN!”

https://images.app.goo.gl/PGJuqTmbWYU2QMwr6

Poncey Cali kids vs unwashed riffage

soundgarden, what a good band

ALIVE in the superunknown

Pavement always seemed overrated yet very good to me. Not quite as good as people wanted them to be. But my kid has discovered them and I'm listening with new ears and I'm surprised how much I like them as a guitar riff band, always appreciated them more for the words and mangled hooks. Still, Badmotorfinger.

Apples vs hand grenades. One can blow stuff up, but the other can stave off scurvy 🤔

Another very easy poll to vote in.

have only heard a few pavement songs and hated them vs one of my favorite (if not my fav) bands

Me Age 19-25: Soundgarden
Me Age 26-44: Pavement
Me Age 45-47: Soundgarden

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:45 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

with slightly different age brackets, same for me ^

I've kept trying to get into Soundgarden over the past 30 years and they're obviously talented and all, but very few of their songs ever stick with me. I think I just don't dig their overall sound.

I don't listen to Pavement very often either, but their songs are much more likely to be rattling around in my head.

As much as I love Pavement, it's SG all the way here.

Would you rather walk:

a) on a pavement
b) through a soundgarden

Go back to those my waves

It's really a shame that I have a vivid imagination for nonexistent music but no actual musical ability because I just spontaneously whipped up a killer Soundgarden cover of 'Grounded' and I wish I could share it with u all.

I'd rather listen to Pavement cover Soundgarden than Soundgarden cover Pavement any day of the week.

which band would people suppose combines the most prominent elements of Pavement (cutesy college literate stoniness and sloppy/skewed riffz) with those of Soundgarden (shirtless singer screeching and wah-wah pedalled distortion in exotic time signatures)? I can't think of anything

I did think of a Pavement: Soundgarden:: Can: Led Zep analogy though

Soundgarden ain't gonna be covering Pavement anytime soon

Oneida?? xp

I listened to a Soundgarden album once. It was 70 minutes long. I got bored.

Pavement.

xxp Henry Cow maybe

Pissed Jeans

One of those Steve albini bands

Pavement at least have one great song

I'd rather listen to Pavement cover Soundgarden than Soundgarden cover Pavement any day of the week.

I voted Soundgarden, but I would actually agree with this statement. Something about Pavement seems less monolithic and more curious?

which band would people suppose combines the most prominent elements of Pavement (cutesy college literate stoniness and sloppy/skewed riffz) with those of Soundgarden (shirtless singer screeching and wah-wah pedalled distortion in exotic time signatures)? I can't think of anything

I think this is pretty unfair summary of Soundgarden's strengths. They have one of the great rock voices of all time (would not summarize Cornell as screeching). Did Soundgarden use that much wah-wah?

Thayil did during solos, sure....mostly after they got big

Of course, but was that one of their primary features? I wouldn't say they used wah-wah more than other, similar bands? I would say the ironic darkness of their lyrics were way more a dominant feature of the band.

Thaiyl is a way cooler less cliched, he did a lot of stuff stuff voicings and alternate tunings, very inventive if you pay attention to what he's doing

I like both bands a lot, different enough a comparison seems pointless

I mean I don't think "wah" as a *defining characteristic* when I think Soundgarden, I think it when I think Metallica. unless poster is only thinking of the Black Hole Sun solo

Not really related, but what about Soundgarden covering Chavez' "Top Pocket Man?"

Anyway, voted Pavement

I just meant lead guitar player that really "goes for it," has a full-on pedal board, a bonafide longhair, plays a fuckin' SG, gets heavy, puts out heavy vibes on the reg, isn't trying to be cute about it, doesn't use a goofy stage name, doesn't wear a derby cap and reference IKEA

hmm Chavez actually a pretty decent pick for the Pavement-Soundgarden hybrid/middleground hypothesis

I can't even imagine what Soundgarden song people could picture Pavement covering well.

Pavement never covered anything well. Pavement couldn't even play their own songs well.

but see that's why I like Pavement more. they covered all kindsa stuff just for shits and giggles and it wasn't really about doing it "well" as much as it was about heh we're doing this

Oooh I think on shits-and-giggles covers Soundgarden wins this in a walk.

Devo! Cheech and Chong!

+ Beatles and Stones and Sabbath

would love a pavement cover of 'hunger strike'

but then i think everyone should cover 'hunger strike'

Yeah, I could imagine a decent Soundgarden cover of "Summer Babe".

If what you're looking for is a middle ground between Soundgarden and Pavement as opposed to some kind of strange fusion, there was a famous Seattle trio with a frontman who died tragically young that pretty much resided in exactly that aesthetic spot.

Half Japanese vs High on Fire

xp I’d go more with, like, Caustic Resin

i think the hypothetical best Soundgarden covering Pavement >>> best Pavement covering Soundgarden

cornell and co. doing "Fillmore Jive" would be the best.

Irony vs earnestness

I guess Soundgarden has the reputation for earnestness based on the last record or two?

Soundgarden was super ironic! Their early records were total piss-takes on metal (which is not to say they didn't also love that music)

Pavement did a fantastic cover of The Killing Moon. The Classical and What Goes On were also p good

I love their cover of R.E.M.’s “Camera”

Soundgarden covering "Stop Breathin" as power ballad, Pavement covering "Rusty Cage" as a goof

Pavement never covered anything well. Pavement couldn't even play their own songs well.

― Tom Violence (Extended Club Mix) (Tom Violence), Monday, December 16, 2019 9:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

their cover of echo and the bunnymen’s “the killing moon” is incredible

"Big Dumb Sex" is super ironic

funny when I saw them open for Guns N' Roses, it was also the song that went over huge in a very non-ironic fashion by the arena crowd, maybe a premonition of how the whole grunge thing was gonna go down

boy they killed it though, we were blown away, they were so young and hungry you could tell they wanted to eat GnR's lunch

Pavement never covered anything well. Pavement couldn't even play their own songs well.

this is pretty overrated I think by Crooked Rain and on they aren't even that sloppy unless it's intentionally so in some cases
but like...Brighten the Corners is a pretty polished indie rock record

their cover of echo and the bunnymen’s “the killing moon” is incredible competent

Pavement covering "Rusty Cage" as a goof

More than once I've come across people who are convinced this song is a Johnny Cash original.

I am a total Pavement stan FWIW, but none of their choices of covers ever played to their strengths

xp I used to be one of those dopes who thought it was a Cash song, never really dug deep into Soundgarden until a few years ago, both versions rule

I never thought of "Rusty Cage" as a Soundgarden deep cut, which I think is part of why it's so O_O to me.

Clearly, the Cash cover is getting more exposure somewhere, though.

I completely forgot there was already a canonical cover of that one. could also see Pavement doing "Blow Up the Outside World" in extremely lackadaisical mode...

Now I'm imagining a Cash version of "Range Life," and the thought of hearing him sing "I don't understand what they mean and I could really give a fuck" warms my heart

Since we're talking about a "dumb guitar poll", in terms of just straight up guitar playing? Soundgarden wins. I don't feel like Malkmus really came into my favorite years of his guitar playing until his solo stuff.

That said, both of these were very formative bands for me in the early to mid 90s and it's much harder to pick a clear cut winner.

a pretty polished indie rock record

This phrase deserves its own wing in the Faint Praise Hall of Fame IMO.

This could be a b-side from Soundgarden circa the Flower EP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMr9kYjKJ1Q

Pondering how, in 1990, these bands were underground peers coming out of the SST/Homestead late 80s loving-pisstakes on classik rock, the next step after Camper Van Beethoven and Pussy Galore and such. I'm sure the record were reviewed side-by-side in zines like Chemical Imbalance. Then by 1995, they seemed entirely different. Now, to 90s-entranced zoomers, they're similar again, last gasp guitar pop, offish irony and convoluted hooks.

yeah could trace them both back to dinosaur jr in their own respective ways

I'm sure the record were reviewed side-by-side in zines like Chemical Imbalance.

Eh, that's a bit of a stretch, Soundgarden were signed to A&M (and opening for G&R) by the time Pavement were mailing out copies of Slay Tracks.

i think this could actually scan well as a pavement cover, it does lots of things that are less typical for a soundgarden song that play well to pavement's style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5a8zXaKapc

Big Dumb Sex is a monster riff and aggressively sexy song. The only part that I could see being read as tongue in cheek is the last couple seconds where the vocal is detuned

Thayil described it as a parody at the time: http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/articles/tribune_10-18-89.shtml

Big Dumb Sex is awesome and hilarious

similarly funny and ass kicking on that album: Gun, Get On The Snake, Full On Kevin's Mom

I mean, I don't think they were going for Weird Al. I'm sure they meant to write a balls-out rock song but also have a lol by playing a repeated boogie-rock riff (simple by their standards) while stripping away any of the double entendres of the genre in the lyrics. xps

Get On The Snake is a sendup in the opposite direction, leaning into the innuendo

My 'Pavement covering Soundgarden' proposal: 'Drawing Flies'

Slightly more laconic arrangement, maybe put Spiral on vocals. I think they could make it work.

xp I mean really at the time there's no way these guys would have gotten a foothold in that scene if it was meant to be earnest.

For me and I imagine a lot of others the "joke" was what made it possible—it was one way they kept their punk rock bona fides, reminding ppl in the process how much they missed listening to Zeppelin and Sabbath

For some reason people always expect me to like Pavement. Soundgarden.

Cut Your Hair came out in 1994

Now GIS Chris Cornell 1994

This is not a coincidence people

yeah could trace them both back to dinosaur jr in their own respective ways

― the woefullest shirker (NickB), Tuesday, December 17, 2019 11:24 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

again this feels ahistorical, Dino and Soundgarden formed the same year. and that discounts Soundgarden being influenced by what was going on around them (u-men, melvins, malfunkshun)

pavement feels more out of new zealand stuff, the fall, kannanberg was a replacements fan, though i'm sure they all liked dino

similarly funny and ass kicking on that album: Gun, Get On The Snake, Full On Kevin's Mom

Gun has always been one of my favorites on that album. I love the way the tempo keeps increasing and Cornell's voice is just monstrous on the "bombs explode" and "truth is born" lines.

Admission: my second nick on IRC in 1993 was a Soundgarden reference: uglytruth. /shame

Both bands think Billy Corgan is a goof.

Lol! The Spin magazine with the Thayil/Corgan stuff also had a feature on Pavement for CRCR (titled "Big Slack Attack").

The song Spoonman so offended my sensibilities that I never gave the band another shot

same. was a pretty big fan up through 1992-3 then noped after hearing that one.

Brighten The Corners was Pavement's Spoonman for me.

Me Age 15-19: Pavement
Me Age 20-25: Pavement
Me Age 26-the grave: Pavement

again this feels ahistorical, Dino and Soundgarden formed the same year

didn't actually know that tbh! dinosaur seemed to have been around a good few years before i ever heard of soundgarden (which was possibly through snide comments about them in forced exposure, even while they were carrying adverts for ultramega ok)

The song Spoonman so offended my sensibilities that I never gave the band another shot

― I have not yet begun to fart (rip van wanko), Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:16 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

'Spoonman' is like a good friend trying out a cravat for a week. Everyone agrees it was a regrettable lapse in judgment and, because we value the relationship overall, we all just move on without speaking of the matter further.

xpost - dino got on to wax sooner, looking at the wikipedia of the early seattle bands there seems to be a little lag between them forming and getting on wax, i suppose that area was kind of a no man's land for the industry

there was screaming trees on sst i guess, also beat happening and other stuff on k

Steve Fisk released 448 Deathless Days on SST in '87, probably through the Pell Mell/Screaming Trees connection.

Queensryche being overlooked

queensryche made cobain's montage of heck mixtape

xp I mean really at the time there's no way these guys would have gotten a foothold in that scene if it was meant to be earnest.

For me and I imagine a lot of others the "joke" was what made it possible—it was one way they kept their punk rock bona fides, reminding ppl in the process how much they missed listening to Zeppelin and Sabbath

Hey I know what to do
I'm gonna fuck fuck fuck fuck you
Fuck you Ya I know what to do
I'm gonna fuck fuck fuck fuck you
Fuck you I'm gonna
Gonna, yeah

I just don’t see Cornell doing satire (successfully) at all

When I first saw Soundgarden (right around the time that Pavement began making music), their encore was "Earache My Eye" (Cheech & Chong) and "Big Bottom" (Spinal Tap).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkpAeVNdgW8

"Tell me if you think it's ugly/Don't you want to touch it anyway" is Spinal Tap-worthy itself. I mean, the name of the song is "Big Dumb Sex", come on.

Lol, anyone who doesn't think Soundgarden is shot through with irony and dark humor ain't paying attention.

One of my favorite Soundgarden anecdotes was when Sassy magazine voted them the ugliest band in America.

that should not happen in a time when Screaming Trees existed.

That was about their perceived politics, though, right? They weren't particularly ugly dudes in 1993: https://preview.redd.it/7pyaffridfc21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=e36a266b6e3a77c318bee3a6648c3ae34d713260

You know,” Thayil says, “people always think of us as macho pigs. We play masculine music, really powerful rock. We rock without the long, pointless sections that go nowhere, the stupid guitar solos, the lipstick, and the codpieces. We are what we are, and I guess we’re not especially interested in showing a sensitive female side. But I think one of the reasons we’re considered so macho is because we’re unavailable. Chris is especially sexual onstage, but after the show he doesn’t belong to you, and I think people sense that. I think we may scare young women.”

“Last year,” Cameron says, reaching for the place of kangaroo, “Sassy readers voted us the ugliest band in America, which is pretty cool, but sometimes the politics seem a bit heavy-handed. We did a show in Olympia right before Badmotorfinger came out, and people there were starting the riot grrrl Kill Rock Stars label at that point, and there were T-shirts, and they were great. I asked if I could buy one of the T-shirts, and the guy said, ‘No, man, you’re a rock star.’ I thought to myself, ‘What a closed-minded idiot!’ I mean, we struggled a lot. We were poor. For years, we slept on people’s floors right next to the cat box when we went on tour. We don’t have the attitude that people seem to think we have, the sexist posing, the drugs.”

(https://www.spin.com/2017/05/soundgarden-1994-cover-story/)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I had no idea that Soundgarden existed that long before Ultramega OK.

I had no idea that Soundgarden existed

I don't even own a Soundgarden

I owned Badmotorfinger at one time but never really got into Soundgarden. I’ve been a Pavement fan since S&E.

Chris is especially sexual onstage, but after the show he doesn’t belong to you, and I think people sense that. I think we may scare young women. Really, they're quite fearful, that's my theory. They see us on stage with tight trousers. We've got, you know, armadillos in our trousers.

Soundgarden is terrible wtf ilx

They have like one, maybe two, songs I like (Hands All Over mainly). These are the schmucks that made fucking Spoonman and Black Hole Sun. Even Billy Corgan had a higher hit rate.

I'm sure that's a thing you believe.

Having a go at Soundgarden for Spoonman/BHS doesn’t really work when plenty of fans aren’t fussed on either of them anyway?

I can't imagine liking rock music but not appreciating Soundgarden. That's like being into classical music but not enjoying....a really good composer

uh, "rock music" is a pretty broad field, and there aren't really any "universals" like that

count me among ppl who wrote them off after spoonman. May not be accurate, but certainly not a crazy response to hear that song, think “this sucks”, and keep walking.

Soundgarden is one of the worst bands of my lifetime. Not joking, not trolling. Listening to Cornell wail is like nails on a chalkboard for me. Also, I like songs with hooks.

well that certainly was a thing you said

damn some of you really need to buy some fuckin ears

They are probably better than I assumed they were at the time and based on this thread & the passage of years I will probably listen to some soundgarden albums now and see what’s up, but forgive me for hearing spoonman and BHS + seeing Chris Cornell spend the 90s doing whack-ass lizard king moves and not thinking “hmm I wonder if I’m underrating this band”

also lol @ anyone accusing them of lacking hooks on a thread where they're being compared to PAVEMENT

can't get past the grunge growl.

Pavement is good.

yes!! fresh fucking tendrils!!

― forkshighwaytopoopon (some dude), Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:01 PM (eight years ago) bookmarkflaglink

btw this is soundgarden just for matt cameron

i'm not sure if the point of a band like pavement is to have a drummer i think about (i do think about gary young a lot when i listen to slanted and enchanted tbf) but like... no contest

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.) at 4:13 31 Dec 19

I can't imagine liking rock music but not appreciating Soundgarden. That's like being into classical music but not enjoying....a really good composer

I love really good composers, they make some of the best classical music on the scene today

^^^^gets it

I like both of these bands a lot. they should not be battling each other

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

jesus

:)

This is worse than the UK election result

139 votes? Damn.

ILXit

Delete ILM

Haha... eat it, grungers 😉

Soundgarden street team...meeting in fifteen. You know where

Ugh

Make ILM Lame Again

Let's do, uh, Yo La Tengo vs Pearl Jam next.

Archers of Loaf vs. Candlebox

score is closer than it should've been

There's an old Kim Gordon interview quote about how the British music press thought of rock music as "something people should have evolved out of by now"...true of ILX as well.

Not surprised at this result at all tbh. Pavement partisanship runs deep

fuckin FMBB invaders

Love 2 conceive of music as being more or less evolved than other music

British music press (I think I can imagine the source) of the time much like ilx circa 2001, full of people completely clueless about rock music and generally anything involving a competent rhythm section

Sorry to go all Joe Carducci

I bet you all like at least one band that I don’t!!!

Anal Vomit?

save it just keep it off my wave

Lol

think I would kick it with Bob Nastanovich out of all these guys

Archers of Loaf vs. Candlebox

― the beer of champagnes (morrisp), Tuesday, December 31, 2019 7:15 PM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Vs_the_Greatest_of_All_Time_cover.jpg

Candlebox really stinked after their debutt

Archers are better than Pavement and Soundgarden

https://img.discogs.com/aAS0jFvp5GXj2GjmIaTxggoiIMM=/fit-in/600x593/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-369002-1221565474.jpeg.jpg

Archers are better than Pavement and Soundgarden

otfm

Archers, amid all the sloppy fuzzy thing they had going on, pretty much rocked at all points.

Not that Pavement didn't but...just less frequently than AOF.

er, AOL

This is their sound, there is none higher, other indie bands should just retire

think I would kick it with Bob Nastanovich out of all these guys

idk kim thayil and matt cameron seem cool from what I've seen

Wake and bake New Year’s Day 2020 with Bob, Steve, and Kim, who’s in???

In the Archer three-part episode "Heart of Archness" main character Sterling Archer names his lacrosse team the "Archers of Loafcrosse".

Don't know which result is more upsetting, this or the UK election.

I can't even fathom a world where Soundgarden or Archers would beat Pavement.

I voted Pavement and I'm proud. In fact, I'm listening to Brighten the Corners right now, and as usual it sounds just terrific, and I'm having an excellent time listening to it for the billionth time ever, and all you Soundgarden people can just deal with that. Does it bother you? Did you know I think about Pavement being on Space Ghost Coast to Coast literally every time I listen to Brighten the Corners because it's from the same era as that apperance? I really do, and it's always a fun and amusing memory because that show was so great. Did Soundgarden ever get on that show? Were they ever invited? Yeah, I don't think they were. Hm, too bad. Also, they made Audioslave happen. Pavement had nothing to do with Audioslave. Soundgarden can't say that.

sore winners itt

Xpost a world where being a good live band was factored into the judgement?

Fuuuuuuck Pavement!

Silver Jews > Pavement > Silkworm > Sebadoh > Sentridoh > Steel Pole Bath Tub > Smashing Pumpkins > Sarah McLachlan > The Brian Setzer Orchestra > Sum 41 > Seven Mary Three (occasionally abbreviated to 7 Mary 3 or 7M3) > Soundgarden > Audioslave

My junior/high school friend and I will still hear, without fail, the same Soundgarden, Marcy Playground, Temple of A Dog song block on the one 'alternative'/buzzbin local station. It's pretty funny how they haven't changed their rotation at all.

I actually love about 80% of Slanted and Enchanted and various other things and am good with Pavement as long as people don't go around doing things like rating them over Soundgarden.

Best rock criticism of the 1990s: https://youtu.be/ElXj_IaiIfg

Did Soundgarden ever have a Bob Nastanovich type member? Pavement win for having a constant member with an almost indeterminate role, instrumentally.

logical next poll: Yo La Tengo vs Nirvana

Ehh pit Nirvana against GBV and save YLT for Pearl Jam or the Pumpkins imo

[perfunctory concession that maximizing the incongruity is probably the point]

yeah could trace them both back to dinosaur jr in their own respective ways

― the woefullest shirker (NickB), Tuesday, December 17, 2019 11:24 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

again this feels ahistorical, Dino and Soundgarden formed the same year. and that discounts Soundgarden being influenced by what was going on around them (u-men, melvins, malfunkshun)

pavement feels more out of new zealand stuff, the fall, kannanberg was a replacements fan, though i'm sure they all liked dino

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, December 17, 2019 2:51 PM (two weeks ago)

m@tt super otm like @lw@ys but it really should be said that for anyone looking for music that occupy a middle ground between these two bands, SST ca. '86/'87 really is your best bet

^like, Das Damen? Maybe, tho I repeat my Caustic Resin suggestion (am I wrong?)

Yeah exactly...I've been listening thru the SST podcast lately (You Don't Know Mojack) and in fact I just listened to the episode about the first Das Damen EP...but yeah a lot of that stuff has been kicking around my head a lot lately

(Which obv is why I'm responding sans insight to posts from a couple weeks ago)

Dinosaur Jr should beat Soundgarden in any poll.

apologies that I didn't lose my virginity to Black Hole Sun so I don't understand the Soundgarden love here.

photoshop of badmotorfinger as slanted and enchanted.jpg

the case against seeming to largely consist of "they had 2-3 songs that got too much radio play"

excuse you i lost my virginity to "room a thousand years wide"

I lost mine to Full On Kevin's Mom

The thought of having sex to Pavement just made me shudder a little.

Then they gave it back

xp Don’t knock it til you’ve tried it! ;)

I’m tryin
I’m tryin
I’m trying
I’m tryin
I’m tired
I’m sorry
I’m sorry!

I wonder if he lost his virginity like an ordinary guy?

So, uh, is it ok to like both?

obviously yes, i do too

I *love* both but it's still such an obvious choice to me

i heard "shady lane" for the first time in years the other night and it's such a wonderful song i started wondering if i made the wrong choice here! this suspicion was quickly extinguished by listening to "head down" this morning

I prefer Pavement's albums and Soundgarden's songs. Since I'm more of an album man I ultimately picked the former.

I hate Pavement a lot

I totally hated them until I was in my mid-20s and realized that if I thought of S&E as a (possibly unintentional) Derek Bailey-like approach to Beatles/Stones-derived classic guitar pop, it suddenly sounded great.

I almost certainly wouldn't care about the poll results if it had been close, but seeing a blowout like this is strangely depressing

I really like Black Hole Sun tbh

For all its 'lol landfill indie' memes, ILM still rates that tradition more highly than earnest 90s metal-adjacent guitar dudes.

I almost certainly wouldn't care about the poll results if it had been close, but seeing a blowout like this is strangely depressing

Pavement seems to win any head-to-head poll they get put up in (see also: Pavement vs. Royal Trux, TS: Pavement vs. Silver Jews, etc)

well. maybe not vs. Belle and Sebastian...

…or New Order.

This was another (obv incorrect) blowout: TS: Pavement / Smashing Pumpkins

ha, I was on the losing end of that fight too

Voted for Pavement in this one, but was pretty disappointed by the results in their matchup vs the Joos.

I really like Black Hole Sun tbh

― Kebabs Windsor (Noodle Vague), Thursday, January 2, 2020 10:54 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's a good fuckin song, great karaoke song too

Now I'm tempted to start a Pavement vs Nirvana dogfight, but I'm afraid Kurt & co. might lose.

pavement beating smashing pumpkins is impossible for me to get mad about bc everyone's baggage about sp is largely justified, much as they were my favorite band on earth

The chorus of "Black Hole Sun" lets it down imo: I find it monotonous and they keep repeating it. Verse could be a decent Aerosmith tune.

it's not even really like their usual fare. I love the song and all, but it's nowhere near my Top 5. Yeah, it has the Sabbathy riffs and weird time signatures, but it definitely has more of a commercial feel. My best friend growing up thought different people sang "Spoonman" and "Black Hole Sun" (he also thought Billy Corgan was Chinese, so....). If people heard "Limo Wreck", their faces would be melted off.

the chorus feels a wee bit like a kid's nursery rhyme

black hole sun
won't you come
wash the rain
and have some fun

Yeah, it has the Sabbathy riffs and weird time signatures, but it definitely has more of a commercial feel

i have always thought of it as being so heavily influenced by the beatles it almost isn't a soundgarden song lol

It's definitely quite psychedelic, which they dove into more on DOTU

Yeah, first impressions was a very good White Album pastiche, Dear Prudence and Glass Onion somber psych.

For all its 'lol landfill indie' memes, ILM still rates that tradition more highly than earnest 90s metal-adjacent guitar dudes.

how is this mystery

What about socks tho.

I think "4th of July" and "Day I Tried to Live" are my favourites on Superunknown. "Limo Wreck" v cool: I like the harmonics in the riff

"fresh fuckin tendrils" and the title track are mine

this result upsets me

for all that I like a lot of pavement-adjacent music I don't really like pavement

except 'grounded' that's a good song

For all its 'lol landfill indie' memes, ILM still rates that tradition more highly than earnest 90s metal-adjacent guitar dudes.

― pomenitul, Thursday, January 2, 2020 9:56 AM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ilm mainly clowns on 21st century landfill indie while indie from the 80s and 90s is p much lionized on here (i am guilty of this and voted for pavement)

except 'grounded' that's a good song

― imago, Thursday, January 2, 2020 11:33 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

my favorite

Malkmus is a better and stranger guitar player than Thayil

maybe I'll give them an all-albums review at some point, five albums isn't that many

I'll take Soundgarden's main two albums + Pretty Noose over a lot of bands mind you

Malkmus is a better and stranger guitar player than Thayil

― Οὖτις, Thursday, January 2, 2020 11:39 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

man, no

Surely Pavement aren't from any kind of "landfill indie" tradition?

Malkmus is a better and stranger guitar player than Thayil

― Οὖτις, Thursday, January 2, 2020 10:39 AM (ten minutes ago)

They both play Guild S100s.

whoa!

I did not vote in this poll but I’d gone with Pavement, mainly because I don’t really know that many Soundgarden songs but I’m interested since there’s some passionate fans of them in this thread.

Of course I know Black Hole Sun and Spoonman but I’m not crazy about those two... maybe they’re overplayed at this point for me.

Any 3 songs you’d recommend for newcomers to the band?

Rusty Cage and My Wave are two favorites that quickly come to mind

As someone who has struggled to enjoy them on the whole, I'll still go to bat for My Wave and Birth Ritual.

literally just put on Superunknown and skip/delete the songs you're already sick of.

i recommend the "pretty noose" music video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8nkHrv_4Mg

which i watched this morning just to gawk at matt cameron's playing again

put on 'superunknown' but start with the title-track

Thanks! Those two sound pretty good on first listen! You know I always steered away from Soundgarden because they were classified as grunge - a genre which I actively avoided growing up since the ratio of bands and songs I actually liked vs the ones I hated was probably 1:10, and I gave up on it - but I’m liking this a lot... it’s a brand of grunge closer to hard rock and stoner metal... Will have to give superunknown and badmotorfinger a listen. Might change my mind on “grunge”.

see also the "fell on black days" video xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySzrJ4GRF7s

they rerecorded this song live for the music video! i love it when bands do that

Watching these music videos first thing I have to recon is that Chris Cornell was a very attractive man.

they rerecorded this song live for the music video! i love it when bands do that

Bands don't do this enough, most recently Brutus absolutely killed it

The song Superunknown never gets recognized along with their other big songs, but it has always been one of my favorites. That over-driven 1966 Yardbirds/pseudo-Arabic sound is the best.

"grunge" is a useless genre tag which includes classic rock/metal influenced stuff like soundgarden and pearl jam (two bands who themselves are not particularly similar) and then stuff like nirvana which is much more punk

"Jesus Christ Pose" but all of Badmotorfinger is great. Probably even more on the stoner/metal side.

xps

just a great great great band

i love them so much lol :(

best rock band ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEM-1kKcg7g

NOW I KNOW WHY
YOU'VE BEEN SHAKINGGGG

I love Soundgarden in small doses (Badmotorfinger, mainly) but a little Cornell sure goes a long way. I've missed the boat with Pavement.

cornell's vox honestly the biggest hurdle for me, when he gets up in that choked-off fake-scream register its just game over for me, cant help but find it corny. maybe i just cant separate it from the era, a lot of unfortunate choices made by male vocalists in that time & scene. i say this realizing that malkmus doesnt exactly have golden pipes himself, but cornell always sounds like he's singing while trying to twist the lid off a really tight jar.

"Slaves and Bulldozers" a pretty good argument for Thayil as an effective strange guitarist, actually.

I do think the guitars tend to stand out more in Pavement's music, esp since with the less, uh, ambitious rhythm section and not-exactly-golden pipes, the guitars really have a lot of space to carry the music.

I would start with “Loud Love” and “hands all over”

and after that feel free to stop

lol

you two disappoint me

sorry I have no burning need for gurning clangy prog-metal

What do u have a burning need for? How can we turn that frown upside down

What about Groove Denied vs the Timbaland record?

currently I have a burning need for mid-50s small jazz combos w/vocals fwiw

why not both?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz-Iz-Christ

obligatory Jazz-Iz-Christ Pose joek

Hey Οὖτις, have you heard the Jazzmeia Horn album from this year? Great vocals, kinda Betty Carter-ish. Small group. Some spiritual moments. I like it a lot.

i mention this in every soundgarden thread but they’re such a great band that even their reunion record stands up with their earlier stuff

ofc we’ll never know what a pavement reunion record would be like (probably good bc if anything i think malkmus has become a better songwriter and guitar player since but also what would be the point)

Things I like in metal = velocity and/or tunes

So Soundgaiden don't really do it for me

Oh god yeah the sunging is pretty bad too, sorry he's dead but I ugh hate that kinda voice

soundgarden are so rich with tunes that i can’t wrap my head around that

“You think it’s just all about class misery and factories, even some sort of situationist/surrealist thing,” he says of his 1980s influences. “It’s kind of stoner music that you don’t realize it is.”

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vbwkwb/why-indie-rock-fifty-somethings-are-going-synthpop

I don't know Brad I've never given them a fair shake but they've always sounded lumpen and um grungey to me

Lumpen, eh? Sounds like you hate the proletariat.

As a side note, do Brits hate grunge more than Americans like britpop?

idk noodle this is just hook after hook for me, while also being in 5/4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEbYxEXM2cE

once again, matt cameron *heart eyes emoji*

OK I still find his voice hard going but there's a level of psychedelic loveliness in that track

that's what soundgarden is all about!

Same

Wonder what NV thinks of as a tune

I dunno man, a lot of NWOBHM stuff and early 80s thrash is pretty songy to me in a way I don't hear in a lot of post-grunge or po-faced Metal from the 90s on but I totally accept I'm idiosyncratic about this, oh yeah also Accept rule

Fitting, I've been thinking of nailing my roommates balls to the wall all morning

Accept (with Udo, anyway) > Soundgarden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavement

Hey Οὖτις, have you heard the Jazzmeia Horn album from this year? Great vocals, kinda Betty Carter-ish. Small group. Some spiritual moments. I like it a lot.

thx I'll look it up. I like Carter fine but am thinking more along the lines of Chet Baker, Helen Merrill, Blossom Dearie etc.

Maybe you can start a thread?

hm I thought there was one but can't seem to find it

oh here it is Jazz Vocalists - CD/SD

OK I still find his voice hard going but there's a level of psychedelic loveliness in that track

― Kebabs Windsor (Noodle Vague), Friday, January 3, 2020 11:04 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Soundgarden always had a touch of psychedelia, but it became more pronounced when Ben Sheppard joined and metastasized on Superunknown and Down on the Upside as he wrote more stuff. Head Down, 4th of July, Half, Like Suicide are all pretty psychedelic. I mean Black Hole Sun, as much as it is totally worn out for me, is a grungy take on a Magical Mystery Tour era-Lennon tune.

Screaming Trees did psych-grunge better imo

screaming trees were fucking great but again: come on

I have a soft spot for Screaming Trees but talk about a lack of songs.

They have their major label moments, but the best Screaming Trees songs are on the SST albums, no question.

the day somebody makes it all the way to the end of a screaming trees album they will be awarded a prize. the prize has gone unclaimed for years

that shit is mine in 2020

the trees were just kinda riff-poor

and stink-rich

I like Screaming Trees more than both of these bands

Buzz Factory >>>>

They have their major label moments, but the best Screaming Trees songs are on the SST albums, no question.

― wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Friday, January 3, 2020 9:28 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

the day somebody makes it all the way to the end of a screaming trees album they will be awarded a prize. the prize has gone unclaimed for years

― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, January 4, 2020 12:59 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think the best Screaming Trees songs are on their Change Has Come EP on SubPop. It was the first ST record I ever got and I loved it - it's one of my favorite records of the era - but it's the only one I've ever made it through without yawning/shrugging at some point. I think there are so many bands that are really suited to releasing EPs, but people just default to albums for the most part. I don't know whether this is due more to profitability or artistic hubris or what.

I still don’t like Dust as much as most critics seemed to in 1996; still sounds patchy to me

show me a word that rhymes that soundgarden, and I won't kill your family