Wearing a band's t-shirt to one of their concerts: Classic or Dud?

This came up in the context of a diss on Pete Buttigieg and I have extremely strong Opinions about this; I suspect others do, too.

my strongly held belief on this is that it's fine to do

My Strong Opinion about this is as follows:

fuck you for telling me what I should or shouldn't wear on my own fucking body, you controlling fuck

This is basically "have you seen PCU? y/n"

I wear band shirts of the band I'm seeing all the time.

Fuck haterz

This is sometimes discussed on a podcast I listen to. The consensus is (a) it’s totally fine; and (b) where better to wear it?

When I used to wear band shirts, I would absolutely do it. What I can't stand is listening to the band that I'm going to see on the way to the show. That drives me nuts.

I suspect that the people wearing the band's shirt at the show are enjoying themselves more than those who decided not to because it was uncool.

Band T shirt Etiquette

I feel like this is one of those 90s "sellout rules" no one has actually cared about for ages.

This rule was created and enforced by indie-rock pseuds. Go to an Iron Maiden concert without an Iron Maiden shirt and you'll be stared at. Same thing for Slipknot, Slayer, Amon Amarth, Motörhead once upon a time, AC/DC...

Go to an Iron Maiden concert without an Iron Maiden shirt and you'll be stared at.

this is equally stupid tbh

Guys the way to get a band to like you like you is to pretend you don't like them enough to wear their shirt

Also whenever they ask who has the new album, do the Freeform Jazz Odyssey thumbs down

Slayer shows, you wear Slayer shirts to.

Death metal shows, you don't not wear the band you're seeing. You need to find the oldest, most obscure metal shirt in your collection, and strut around with your nips out making sure everyone knows you're not a poser.

Also if you find a poser, you must fight them

my strongly-held opinion is that you should wear a KISS t-shirt to every concert you attend

What if I don't like KISS?

Asking for me.

owning a band's T-shirt and purposely *not* wearing it at their show seems weird to me

I agree that is a dumb thing to police, but if I'm going to wear a band shirt to a show, it's going to be a shirt for a different band. Shirts are basically ads for bands and if I'm at a show, we already know we like x band so maybe I want to rep for y band instead.

yea that's why I always wear my Kansas City Royals gear to the Brewers games

In my case it's usually because I gained 20 pounds in the last year and half of my band shirts are in my "old" size.

It's like the guy who i saw once wear a Brett Favre Falcons jersey to a Packers playoff game watch party.

It was important that everyone knew his vast knowledge of sport.

LOL bands aren't sports teams guys. No one is going to be mad at me for wearing my Lightning Bolt shirt to a Sleep show, or w/e

If yr going to a Sleep show your shirt is supposed to not be washed and covered in food stains

Actually, to be honest, if you're going to a Sleep show, you need to be in cosplay as the guy on the cover of Dopesmoker (a real thing I have witnessed at a Sleep show)

Shirts optional at Sleep/High On Fire shows.

What if I don't like KISS?

Asking for me.

― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:26 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

doesn't matter, rules is rules

Guy in the post office the other week was wearing a faded 1993 Cliff Richard tour sweatshirt, now THAT'S what should be worn to a Maiden show

I mean it's true, there's no "winning team" or "losing team" at a concert, but we're all rooting for the band to be their very best and I like them to know I'm out there supporting them

Idk, the one time I saw Meek Mill, he definitely *lost* that concert

Probably the best one I've seen was a guy wearing a Cro-Mags shirt at a Belle & Sebastian show.

I've never worn a band t-shirt. I probably should.

Strongly in favor of wearing the shirt to the show if you want. Even when I dont do it myself, I like seeing it done bc shows are more fun when you know the audience is excited. This is basic Showgoing 101 stuff. Also if I am at a show by myself it can be a good opening to strike up a conversation at the bar bc you kow the person is probably stoked on the band and interested in talking about them.

People who have vehemently argued against this IME rely on the argument that it's "trying too hard" and will make you look like a dork who purposely picked an outfit to wear or w/e, oblivious to the fact that they themselves are caught up in a web of status anxiety, overthinking and concern about what others will think of their specially-chosen outfit, which is what is actually lame and dorky.

Other argument I've heard more than once: "the band will see it and it will make them feel weird and awkward." Idk they're selling the shirts at the actual show, I think they are OK with the idea of ppl wearing them?

Other argument I've heard more than once: "the band will see it and it will make them feel weird and awkward."

wtf?!??!

I will forever associate Iron Maiden t-shirts with this lady

Probably the best one I've seen was a guy wearing a Cro-Mags shirt at a Belle & Sebastian show.

critical support for this king

It's like the guy who i saw once wear a Brett Favre Falcons jersey to a Packers playoff game watch party.

I wanna mock this guy but then again I do own a jersey of Giannis's brother Thanasis just because it's funny to me

wtf?!??!

Sometimes this topic is like casually discovering someone you know is into Qanon or something - I'll be having a conversation about it with someone I thought I knew well, they'll say something like "you can't let the band see you in their own shirt or they'll get freaked out", and I'll think wow I didnt realize this person has been insane all this time.

lol @ "the band will see it and it will make them feel weird and awkward."

"oh no, they are wearing our merch; how on earth can I step out in front of all of these people and play now"

What if I don't like KISS?

Asking for me.

― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:26 AM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Some bands like Kiss and the Grateful Dead are more about the merch, they are fashion/lifestyle brands as much as anything else. I had a Kiss shirt when i was 9 years old but never owned any of their records or attended a show. To this day, I've only heard about 3 of their songs. For pre-teen me, all the mystique around Kiss or the Dead was shattered the moment I heard a note of their music.

"I feel like you all like us for the wrong reasons. We are not a commercial cash cow.

Btw we are selling thongs with our name on them 2 for 10 at the merch table which is also the pool table"

Xpost

I do believe that if the band sees you in the crowd wearing their thong when they walk on stage, things might get weird and uncomfortable unless you are at a Lords of Acid show

or if youre at a belle and sebastian show, and its a cro mags thong

I stopped wearing band t-shirts to gigs after I went to see My Life Story (sorry!) at a festival and in front of the stage were loads of couples wearing matching MLS t-shirts, it was just sort of icky.

I'm not really into wearing band tshirts at all,or just generally any shirt with writing on it. i currently own 1 band tshirt - teenage fanclub t that I bought in 2017 - that gets worn on laundry day.

T shirts should not have graphics or writing imo

underrated arbitrary t-shirt rules i have loved

idk dud but I only ever had…3 band t-shirts and they’re all defunct and I don’t buy t-shirts with stuff on them anymore

xxpost The Dead have fantastic merch that looks nothing like their music sounds.

Imo we should wear shirts with recommended setlists on them and stand near the front.

Anybody who shouts out a song request is kicked out

The opening band will see it and it will make them feel weird and awkward.

I bought a band shirt last year. Grand Magus (a Swedish biker/power metal band) were on their first US tour ever, they had a 20-minute opening slot before Amon Amarth/Arch Enemy/At the Gates, and I'd been a big fan since at least 2010. I was basically saying, "You guys are awesome - here's $20 in the hope that you'll be able to come back and play here again sometime."

that's why you wear two tshirts, one for the opener and one for the headliner xp

pro-tip: don't try this at a festival, you will die of heatstroke

when I saw Ween there were a bunch of people in custom Ween gear and I thought that was super cool. I mean where else do you show that off

i feel like this is fine at like a big ticket hard rock show (Maiden and Slayer are good examples) but most of the time this is something i file under "innocuous things that make you irrationally embarrassed" tbh.

I like band shirts but don't ever wear them to the show I'm seeing because, by being there, they should assume I am a fan. I do, however, sometimes wear other bands' shirts to a band's show, so that they can see that I am a fan of other bands, too, and not just them. Keep those egos in check.

so you could still wear the headlining band's shirt to the show, but also bring an extra shirt that says "just so we're clear, I am not hear to see you but you can win me over - surprise me!".

hmm, might need a small font for that

xxpost The Dead have fantastic merch that looks nothing like their music sounds.

― dinnerboat, Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:27 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Seriously hearing the Dead for the first time, age 10 or 11, was the most disappointed I've ever been in music. It was like, "Huh? What is this corny bluegrass stuff?? Put on the Grateful Dead album!"

Now, wearing a band shirt the day after the show, I dunno, I think that can be kind of tacky. With the exception of my two best friends from high school, fraternal twin brothers, who saw Bell Biv Devoe and came to school the next day wearing matching "Do Me!" t-shirts.

how I break it down, to an extent:

"cool teens" used to think it was definitely bad, when I was an uncool teen

HOWEVER, an exception was when you bought the shirt at the show, and not wanting to carry it, put it on over what you were wearing. then you were required to wear it to school the next day, smelling like stale cigarette smoke. you might also have a small hole in the shirt somewhere where a guy bumped into you with his lit cigarette because you are very cool and crowded to the front where it was packed

as an adult, the purest thing I have seen is fans wearing the shirt from the prior tour to the current tour, as they attend ALL TOURS. there was a woman in front of me at a Depeche Mode show, and she quietly sang along to every song w/solo Martin Gore vocals with tears streaming down her face

I read someone saying recently that the rule came about because it was a way to spot narcs at underground shows? Which does make sense in a way, but isn't really relevant to most of the shows I go to, and I'm very much in the "wear what the fuck you like" camp.

I once went to a Jay-Z show in a suit, because I had to go to a fancy holiday party right beforehand.

HOWEVER, an exception was when you bought the shirt at the show, and not wanting to carry it, put it on over what you were wearing. then you were required to wear it to school the next day, smelling like stale cigarette smoke.

lol...seen. did this with my first Slayer shirt, I came to school stank as hell.

JiC's not a businessman, he's a business, maaaan

I would leave out the caveat about a prior event and just tell it as "I wore a suit to a Jay Z show" in the future

Noted!

It's quite possible I had a band shirt under it all, though.

I read someone saying recently that the rule came about because it was a way to spot narcs at underground shows?

wearing a suit to a show seems extremely suss too imo

total that-guy behavior

At a Willie Nelson show, I saw a woman wearing a custom shirt commemorating all the times she’s seen Willie play (plus, I think, an R.I.P. to her dad?) — which is pretty next-level.

that's awesome

critical support for this queen

I went to a few hardcore shows in DC still wearing my shirt & tie from my dayjob and people were suuuuper not into it

A friend wore a Mogwai "Blur: Are Shite" t-shirt to a Blur gig once. He likes both bands, thought it would be funny, however this was at the V festival in Chelmsford where the audience didn't enjoy the joke as much as he did.

I last bought a band t-shirt about 12 years ago when I saw Does it Offend you, Yeah? at Maxwells in Hoboken. Their logo was a real disasterpiece, so I had to have one. Presumed the guy I bought it off was a roadie or tour manager but turned out to be the singer/bassist. I immediately put it on over the shirt I was wearing. Show was meh. Gave the shirt away shortly afterwards. Wish I kept it because terrible/awesome logo.

I specifically asked to buy a 'Blur: Are Shite' shirt from Mogwai's tour manager when they played Maxwells in 99 but she said they didn't bring any because "Americans already know that Blur are shite". Also quite like Blur.

i have a roxy music shirt that i like to wear because there's a solid chance the band i'm seeing was influenced by them in some fashion.

Alternate question: can a band member wear their own band's t-shirt on stage? Every time I've seen Southern Culture on the Skids recently it seems Rick Miller's wardrobe consists entirely of his current merch table.

I say yes. If anybody is entitled to advertise their band it's the band itself. Plus, clean clothes are at a premium when you are on tour.

There was a period a few years ago when Milton Nasimento was frequently filmed and photographed wearing Milton Nascimento t-shirts. Not at his performances but like, lounging around his apartment and noodling on his guitar or shooting the breeze with a friend. The prints on many of these were of album covers with prominent pictures of his face, like Courage and Minas.
Not sure how I feel about this. C or D?

I read someone saying recently that the rule came about because it was a way to spot narcs at underground shows?

― emil.y, Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:44 AM

https://compote.slate.com/images/b52810d8-3f5f-4d0a-818a-563f6be7b099.jpg

https://resources.tidal.com/images/fd0ac9d8/d8fe/4a64/a394/a0416ee71c31/1080x720.jpg

^Seems classic 2 me.

Leaning more towards classic myself but still on the fence.

I used to think you should never wear a band's t-shirt at their own show. Unless, like, you were fronting with a really old tour shirt that would show all the late comers how much cooler you were than them. I was never that guy (I'm not that cool) but I always like to see old t-shirts and merch pre-internet to see how the band's aesthetic evolved.

Then, I went to my first real arena show to see Taylor Swift on her Reputation tour and I was blown away. The norm was to have on some sort of Taylor Swift merch, AND there were a ton of people dressed up as various Taylors from her music videos, or in costume based on inspirations from her song lyrics. It was like going to Comic Con, but it was Taylor Con: a Taylor Swift fan convention. I loved seeing all the enthusiasm and creativity from the audience. There was a real joy and excitement in the air and the omnipresent Taylor Swift clothes and costumes just added to the excitement of the show.

Classic.

I did this once when I wore an old Katatonia shirt to a show where they opened for Opeth, and after the Katatonia set some cool dude standing closer to the stage handed me their printed setlist

I'm not sure if that meant "You are obviously a Katatonia connoisseur and therefore better able than I to appreciate this unique souvenir" or "You look like the only Katatonia fan in the building, here, take this shit"

wearing your own shirt onstage is classic, outside of a venue it can be touch & go but Milton Nasimento can 100% get away with it

I've noticed members that joined an already established band within the last year do this a lot.

Because they had to throw out all their old band shirts first, they had nothing else to wear!

I guess I'm too old to care about the answer to this question. show that you're a fan-- great! show that you like some other band--also fine. the only thing I don't want to see people wear at shows is tall hats.

But Milton Nascimento has a Milton Nascimento t-shirt for every day of the week and wears them in all kinds of social situations.

https://www.otempo.com.br/polopoly_fs/1.1449347.1534248225!httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/main-photo-multi-article-f1-resize_620/image.jpg]

https://cdn-ofuxico.akamaized.net/img/upload/noticias/2017/01/11/milton-1_284155_36.jpg

https://cdn.opantaneiro.com.br/img/pc/400/300/dn_noticia/2016/12/83466300958641700d7ce77.62428291.jpg

https://aloalobahia.com/images/p/milton_nascimento_salvador_alo_alo_bahia.png

It's like the one kid from your high school who only wore Metallica t-shirts, but it's Milton Nascimento and they're his own shirts. This is a whole other level of wearing your own shirt outside a venue. At first found this heroically clueless but now thinking it might be legendary, or both.

I will definitely wear the shirt for an opening band / support band to a show. Generally, these are my friends' bands, and it's also to show support for them, because a lot of people at the show will often be disrespectful or at least don't really give a fuck about the opening and support bands, but they are usually really stoked to be opening for the headliner.

It definitely depends on genre though -- I generally don't wear band shirts to goth shows because I dress up more.

The standard band shirt is way more designed for a cis-male body than a cis-female one. I have recently done this thing where I will decorate band shirts I already own and make alterations to them so that they are more flattering on my, uh, feminine attributes, and for some of the shirts, they are a bit too tight in the stomach, so I've done alterations so that I look less fat while wearing them.

also re: wearing opening band shirts -- if you got in free to the show because a friend in one of the opening bands put you on the list, wearing their shirt to the show is often a very considerate thing to do!

Lately I've been wearing my Tropical Fuck Storm shirt to most concerts I go to, mostly because I'm too shy to wear it to the grocery.

Also, the guy with the 100% perfect Dr. Rockso cosplay at the Dethklok/Mastodon show is the only true head I've ever seen.

Milton Nascimento can and should do whatever he wants obv.

Re T. Swift

or in costume based on inspirations from her song lyrics

Yes and I only wear short skirts to her concerts now.

i hear she also sells pillows with pics of her cats on them

this is p much a hipster thing, you don’t wear the shirt of the band in order to affect like you go to shows all the time and are just corporally and spiritually ensconced in live music all the time

Milton Nascimento can and should do whatever he wants obv.

You're right, the man is a godlike genius whose every 'aheee, ahee-iya-iya-iya-eee-e' is like a divine transmission from the heavens, who am I to question him? Not sure what I was even thinking.

this is p much a hipster thing, you don’t wear the shirt of the band in order to affect like you go to shows all the time and are just corporally and spiritually ensconced in live music all the time

mmmm maybe somewhat? But also not entirely.

Yeah that's wrong. It's just too enthusiastic and earnest to wear the band's t shirt to their show. Too irony poisoned to even contemplate such a thing

If you are framing it in a hipster context, then it definitely depends on the band, where they are in the line up, how long they have been in existence ... people have already touched on examples upthread. It's not worth the effort of reiterating discussions and conclusions reached over a decade ago in our many "hipster studies" threads, often chaired by Dr. Whiney PhD

brimstead otm to a large extent, ime many of the people I have met who most vocally clown on concertgoers wearing the bands shirt back it up with "its so corny that they're so excited, were they writing the bands logo on their trapper keeper all day lol", obviously trying to put across a front of jaded connoisseurship, as if they themselves just happen to find themselves at this show and who knows, if its not totally boring maybe they'll stick around

nb I dont classify this as a hipster thing but nearly universal across genres/scenes, the phenomenon of snotty ppl who need to flex at shows by complaining about other concertgoers not measuring up to their standards of fandom

geez, do we have a new generation of ilxors who need to take Intro to Hipster Studies .... *sigh*

wearing a hipster studies tshirt rn

The biggest problem with this ‘rule’ is that I nearly always want to buy a shirt of one of the bands playing. If I’d do this after the show and walk around all evening in my supposedly cooler other shirt first, the good/fitting merch is all gone so I buy my shirt as soon as I’m in the venue. So I can never be that trve dude.

when I saw Datarock I bought a shirt first and wore it over my other shirt (what else was I gonna do with it?) and the singer noticed and brought me on stage so, that was cool

xxp - what kind of dog is on the front?

hipster puppy, obv

the breed! what breed of dog! geez

I threw all my old metal shirts out and regret it all the time. I had so many cool death metal shirts and it breaks my heart. I'm gradually buying them back (replacements, not my old ones).

My uncool t-shirt story: first gig I ever went to (the fucking Quireboys at the Hammersmith Odeon) I bought a t-shirt and went to the toilet and put it on.

unless there are like four dogs of different breeds sitting like good bois with a brick wall behind them.

I have a small holdall in the loft with a collection of band tshirts that are "not to go the journey". All are pretty cool, all bands I like, but also because I like(d) the t-shirt over all.

I also have a few 'down' that I wear but rarely. 808 state, a Moondog one, and a couple of Beatles ones I get as Xmas pressies you get the picture.

I tend not to wear them to gigs though. One time accompanying Alice to Reading Festival when she wasn't quite oldenough to go on her own, pondered which would make me not look like "accompanying dad". Decided on a paislyish shirt in a "if you can't join 'em, beat' em" style. Actually, the pic is still on our fridge!

Some bands like Kiss and the Grateful Dead are more about the merch, they are fashion/lifestyle brands as much as anything else. I had a Kiss shirt when i was 9 years old but never owned any of their records or attended a show. To this day, I've only heard about 3 of their songs. For pre-teen me, all the mystique around Kiss or the Dead was shattered the moment I heard a note of their music.

depends on how old the kid is.

Hafta admit I’m not big on adults dressing little kids in band gear, when the kids are too young for the band (but put whatever you want on your kid, who am I to object).

i think it's cute, unless the band is "problematic" -- there are so many other aesthetically objectionable wardrobe options for children, a babby-sized Ramones t-shirt is okay in comparison.

was at a toddler birthday party where one of the 3 year old guests was wearing a swans t shirt

Ugh. “Aren’t mommy & daddy cool?”

I judge these the same way I judge it for adults: if I like the band its cool & ok and if I don't, its lame

depends on how old the kid is.

― sarahell, Friday, February 14, 2020 3:38 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

What? No, it depends how cool the shirt is!

Saw like a 3 year old being carried around by his fully metal parents outside a Maryland Death Fest venue wearing a little jean battle jacket with Exodus and Jungle Rot backpatches. It was cute.

I always love shit like that

Metal jacket with patches is cute to me but swans t shirt is obnoxious somehow (even setting aside gira rape accusations)

I like Swans but def agree that one is not a good look for the parents.

maybe the kid likes swans (the bird)?

also p rapey iirc

^golf clap for this

I concede that a universal, fashion-y logo like Queen isn’t so bad (or even, I guess, the Ramones). The “cooler,” the worse, IMO

My friend got his one year old a Napalm Death onesie

Yeah I mean the crux of a lot of this is pretentious v. unpretentious.

Oft told story, but:

Alice - Ramones t-shirt - "Rock&roll high school" "oh OK then I'll go get the t-shirt"

dressing your toddler in a 'jesus is a cunt' cradle of filth shirt and dropping him off at a birthday party, pretentious or unpretentious?

Well, I think the idea that wearing a band's t-shirt signifies your deep appreciation of their music is bit old fashioned.

wearing your own shirt onstage is classic, outside of a venue it can be touch & go but Milton Nasimento can 100% get away with it

LOL this is so late 70s Lou Reed

Yeah I mean the crux of a lot of this is pretentious v. unpretentious.

― circa1916, Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:49 AM (ten hours ago)

oh geez ... this is still a thing people are concerned about? Also, what qualifies as "pretentious" when the context is fashion for children of an age where their parents choose their clothes for them? However you dress your child is a signifier of something, it is a performance, a pretense. Really, "pretentious" in this context, seems to mean, a performance you dislike. There also seems to be a bunch of class-related stuff tied up in this too.

i wear shirts featuring bands on them to shows where that band is playing, fuck it. i like the band! when is a better time to wear the shirt?

lol @ Milton Nascimento upthread. What a legend

I don’t even wear other band t-shirts. Just don’t get it. But most prob I don’t want pple approaching me at gigs. Just fuck off, I’m here for the music, not trying to decipher the banter you’re spewing in my ears. (Yes, I’m an asshole. I already talk to enough ppl during the day.)

/Yeah I mean the crux of a lot of this is pretentious v. unpretentious.

― circa1916, Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:49 AM (ten hours ago) /

oh geez ... this is still a thing people are concerned about? Also, what qualifies as "pretentious" when the context is fashion for children of an age where their parents choose their clothes for them? However you dress your child is a signifier of something, it is a performance, a pretense. Really, "pretentious" in this context, seems to mean, a performance you dislike. There also seems to be a bunch of class-related stuff tied up in this too.

If I see a toddler at a show in a Swans shirt, I'm calling them a little fucking poser, and I don't care if they cry.

I wear band T-shirts (usually not for the band I’m seeing but maybe I have? Idk) and don’t care what other people are wearing at the show. It’s rare that a stranger talks to me without me talking to them first so that’s not a problem and the people I do talk to don’t give me shit for what I’m wearing so I don’t really see what the problem is. If someone is so uptight about me not knowing some invisible rules I’d sooner just avoid them than try to please them. Snobbery is very boring imo.

Sarahell otm about this idea that pretentious = a performance that makes you u comfortable for some reason (reasons may differ)

I think the difference when someone is using their kids to express their own personality/taste is that the kids aren’t really consenting to be part of the “performance,” they’re sort of being used as a prop. (It’s not a high crime or anything, though.)

I doubt they put that much thought into it

I found out that chemlab reformed when I told a random dude I liked his shirt. That was cool

where do you all stand on shirts for babies that have words on them

like, “This Is My Resting Burp Face”?

"Fuck the Police"

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1YuhIfXuWBuNjSspnq6x1NVXaA/Hot-Casual-Kids-Baby-Boy-Girl-Novelty-RAP-T-shirt-COOL-Summer-Tee-Tops-1-6Y.jpg_q50.jpg

I just meant words in general not specifically unfunny memey stuff but I’m just trolling anyway

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--Jm2Ni35h--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_crop,x_10,y_10/c_fit,w_470/c_crop,g_north_west,h_626,w_470,x_0,y_0/g_north_west,u_upload:v1462829017:production:blanks:qe3008lhp5hquxmwp4a0,x_-395,y_-325/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1509003454/production/designs/2001556_1.jpg

i will agree that graphic tees with text worn by anyone who's not old enough to read are almost always kinda lame

I bought mine for my son last year.

Then I remembered I don't have kids

I’m just hoping nobody steals my “Resting Burp Face” idea, before I have a chance to jump on Etsy.

I mean... putting a Swans shirt on yr kid vs. a Ramones shirt or something signifies a certain smugness that can be discussed without having to unpack complex class issues ffs.

"A certain smugness" definitely sounds like code for "class issues" to me. I'm assuming there are a variety of types of smugness one can signal via clothing one's child: see the above images other people have posted. Maybe you have problems with those "lower class" items as well, and are only mentioning the band shirts because this is a thread about band shirts? I don't want to make assumptions.

i always love when the kid sees the pic years later and loudly proclaims that band sucks balls

I'm kinda creeped out by children dressed in fuzzy hoodie pajamas with animal ears and tails and less bothered by alt.rock.babby ... like, maybe your kid will grow up to be a fan of Swans or the Ramones. Your kid will not grow up to be a bear or a bunny rabbit.

not with that attitude

okay, maybe they need to make animal fuzzy pajamas with ears, tails, and the Animal Collective logo on the chest. Then we can join together in hating it.

kid-tested, ILX-disowned

sarahell, I am not understanding yr class-based analysis of these t-shirts at all(?)

which shirts?

xp hahaha

any of them!

when you see these shirts, do you think about what kind of parent(s) buy this for a child and dress their child in said garment? Do you perceive that the same parent could dress their kid in a Swans shirt one day and a "Troll hair don't care" shirt the next?

I feel like we've had hundreds of threads about this or related topics ... maybe someone can just link them?

"Promiscuous"

xp Yes, I do perceive that. I don’t really see different “class markers” in any of these shirts

Ok, don’t wanna open a can of worms if this is something that’s been talked out elsewhere

eh, it's just that in ILX's 20 year history, undoubtedly someone, or ilx collectively through discussion, has articulated this better than I would at 10am on a Sunday.

I will say this (to add color to my own p.o.v.): occasionally, I’ll see a Very Metal or Goth couple whose kid is dressed in a totally normie toddler style (conventional, colorful clothes), and I’ll think — cool, they’re on my wavelength; they’re not using their child as a canvas to express their own unique style, they’re letting him or her make that choice layer.

*later

(also want to stress, once again, that I don’t go around judging very harshly how anyone dresses their kid; I would just roll my eyes a bit at something like the Swans edge case.)

do you know the kid made that choice? Did you ask it?

all I'm getting at is -- we can find any mode of dressing a kid to be annoying and smug, even all the ways ... but the specific annoyance at Swans shirt babby, does seem to have class connotations.

Kids should be naked to respect their right to choose

I’m sorry, I will still need those class connotations explained!

And you may be missing my point — the kid didn’t make a choice to wear any particular clothes (I’m talking baby or young toddler here), so the couple dressed the kid in a “default” way. Obviously, it’s always the parent making the choice when the kid is that age.

here's something that could be useful:

http://www.icosilune.com/2009/01/paul-fussell-class/

I understand the concept of class markers, I don’t get how that applies to the Swans example.

(I’ve also explained why I specifically find it cringe-y, and it sounds like you’re saying, “No, you’re having a class-specific reaction, let me not explain it...”)

the link describes what some of the markers are, and how/where the Swans example and the "Troll Hair don't care" example would fit

I think my impression of Fussell's Class was that poetry scholars don't necessarily do the best sociology.

also, as individuals embedded in, or products of socio-economic classes, we are going to have class-specific reactions to things ... it's not like I'm saying you're racist and/or a bad person.

I guess you’ll have to take my word that the only difference I would infer about parents dressing those kids in those two shirts is that one likes the idea of advertising that they‘re into the Swans.

I'm also not clear on what the link says about Swans shirts, though.xps

I think my impression of Fussell's Class was that poetry scholars don't necessarily do the best sociology.

― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Sunday, February 16, 2020 10:47 AM (two minutes ago)

hahah -- fair point! There is definitely overlap between Fussell and Bourdieu fwiw

The legibility of messages on clothes is an important factor. The more legible the messages, the lower the class. Middle classes will wear things that they consider tasteful or “classy”, and thus are legible with the messages of taste and low key branding. Class signs and indicators are thus broadcast.

Are Swans tasteful or classy?

We are such fans of your music and all of your records. I'm not speaking of yours personally, but the whole genre of the rock and roll.

xp - in the context of children's wear, I would say yes, esp. if we are talking about the standard Swans album cover design that's like white text on a black background. Also, it shows a certain class anxiety, which is probably what the posters like morrisp are picking up on and finding annoying. Troll Hair babby is definitely prole. Cute denim jacket with patches of metal bands is also most likely prole. Ramones "RnR high school" babby, could be prole, but is likely middle class, because it is a "classic" design.

Full disclosure: my child is the only member of the family who has any interest in Swans whatsoever.

Full disclosure: I do not have children.

Prole Hair Don’t Care: Tracing Class Markers in Unlicensed Animated Character T-Shirts

This is a photo I took of the handbag of an approx 75 y/o woman in Guangzhou

https://i.imgur.com/ovPw4Vw.jpg

Descendents logo would look cute on a kid's shirt tbh

also funny because the kid is a literal descendent of the person that clothed them!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/9e/72/359e7287f8db1269c125cea45ddcfc52.jpg

middle class ^^

Pretentious is a loaded, abused term and I regret using it, yeah. Maybe edge lord vs. non edge lord is appropriate here. A kid wearing a Brian Eno shirt would be cute and I wouldn’t hate the parents for it. Seriously not a class thing from my perspective.

The connection between these things and socioeconomic class usually seems tenuous to me, although I am interested when someone is providing actual social science research (something I don't recall much of in Fussell but it was admittedly a while ago and I didn't make it the whole way through).

I try to not wear a band shirt for the band I am seeing. It feels strange.

There are exceptions: Wearing a classic shirt to see a band is fun. I saw the Supersuckers a couple years ago and wore a shirt I picked up at the Sub-Pop offices when visiting Seattle back in the early '90s. Wearing an authentic Kill 'Em All For One tour shirt to see Metallica would be very cool, if a bit smug.

Also, there was the Motorhead exception (which is mentioned above) that has become the Slayer exception (not sure who will take the mantle now that they are done).

Fussell was definitely not data-driven social science, definitely on the observational and descriptive side. ... Probably in the current age of big data and more purchases being made by credit card and online, it would be theoretically easier to research using more scientific methods

You can just sit around at Disneyland, and see all these various T-shirts being worn within the actual same families.

I guess you’ll have to take my word that the only difference I would infer about parents dressing those kids in those two shirts is that one likes the idea of advertising that they‘re into the Swans.

“likes the idea of advertising that they’re” jesus I’m done

When someone wears a band T-shirt, are they not advertising that they are into the band?

Some just buy them for cosmetic purposes

I love when you say "love your shirt, <band> rocks" and they look confused, not realizing what they're wearing

Oh yeah, that happened when I asked a 13yo about her Foreigner shirt. She did know they were a band tbf.

Was she a foreigner though?

Her family lives in the boonies but they drive a fancy-looking car. Not sure about their level of earnestness or insecurity. xp no

I've known people who told me they buy band shirts regardless of fandom.

Baffling to me as i have strict rules about whose shirts i will wear

I asked a kid at school recently about her Iron Maiden shirt. Her whole being shrieked 'please don't ask me, I don't know!' at me, so I left it.

They're selling Maiden shirts in Primark, man.

Did she say she was just a teenage dirtbag baby?

Lol

That's funny, I feel like I've definitely seen multiple Maiden shirts lately