Thicke: Slicke or Dicke?

I realize this may not work for all the Neds or Helltimes out there.

FUCKIN THE SUMMER JAM Y'ALL

FUCKIN THE SUMMER JAM Y'ALL

also "Shooter" is unspeakably great.

Oh I slay me!

There’s a time you got to go and show
You’re growin’ now you know about the facts of life,
The facts of life.

When the world never seems to be livin up to your dreams
And suddenly you’re finding out
The facts of life are all about you, you.

It takes a lot to get ‘em right
When you’re learning the facts of life. (learning the facts of life)
Learning the facts of life (learning the facts of life)
Learning the facts of life.

The haircut is also a great relief.

finally got around to hearing non-singles on this album, so great!

the album is terrible and thicke is maybe the smarmiest singer ever and that one song w/ the teacher/pupil metaphor is really creepy

and i LIKE about...three? four? of his songs

Come on, that album is pretty great, although 'Wanna U You Girl' is a bit misleading. I see him as some kind of male Sade for the 00's.

yeah it's got that same v enticing yuppie decadence, but it's totally spoilt by...his self-awareness maybe? he comes off like a performing seal sometimes. and when he doesn't it's bizarrely anonymous and flat! 'cocaine' and 'got 2 be down' are the two i'm actually feeling.

also really hating most of the lyrics. do not need to hear any more boys complaining that no one understands them because they're too complicated maaaaan.

You missed one of the best songs on the album, "Would That Make U Love Me"

I really, really wish that falsetto singers who aren't full-on belters like Phillip Bailey would stop performing live because all it does is make them sound weak and airy.

I like the single, but on the BET Awards he did not sound that strong, and looked goofy with his thin little moustache and preppy vest sweater over tie plus old adidas sneakers look. His dancing and Jackie Wilson/James Brown falling to a knee moves were not that smoothly executed either.

his lyrics are about as good as timberlake.

also his voice is kinda weak live. saw him at the jazz cafe a while back. the girls ate it up cos of that song everyone loves (i like it too) but other than that, the albums kinda soporific.

(My previous post was prompted by his BET performance, which was pretty much the definition of "weaksauce".)

his album sounds convincing to me, and i don't get any fakeness from it. 'sade of the 00s' is overstating it maybe but its a similar vibe -

omg @ his wife:
http://images.askmen.com/galleries/celeb-profiles-actress/paula-patton/pictures/paula-patton-picture-1.jpg

have u been listening to anything in this vein recently dan? can you think of someone doing a similar vibe now that you think sings better?

i'm not arguing, just wondering!

It beats Pharell, in any case.

yeah i don't think he's anything but himself; trouble with that being dude is revolting. and double yeah, if he didnt annoy me enough already he gets to go home to paula patton?! what the shit.

bearing in mind also that that pic up there is probly the worst i've ever seen of her

It beats Pharell, in any case.

The sound of a baby wailing in pain because its legs have been pulled off by cougars beats Pharell; come on now.

have u been listening to anything in this vein recently dan? can you think of someone doing a similar vibe now that you think sings better?

Justin Timberlake, actually!

"When I get You Alone" is amazing, wtf is wrong with you people?

Apocalypse in five...four...three...

(xp)

I'm kinda in the middle on this dude, I get the feeling I'd like most of the songs on his album (his newer one) taken out of context, but listening to it one stretch is a giant fucking chore.

timberlake is totally different! i'm being more specific that 'white dude doing soul,' like i can't actually imagine inviting a girl over and then putting on timberlake, its too omnipresent and obvious

there are some garbage songs on this album for sure, but there are some great ones also and when i listened to it yesterday the quality/crap ratio was pretty favorable

(and timberlake being different goes beyond timberlake being popular ... he's also much less about sexytime babymaking music or whatever)

'i need love' = foxxy

the closest i've been listening to lately would be DWELE but obviously his stuff has a v. different production aesthetic, vibe-wise tho v. similar

if i was a girl and a dude invited me over and put on this album i'd run away as fast as i could, i mean how can you even listen to 'teach u a lesson' without being really creeped out? it's vile!

Nah, i've been playing this album pretty often at dinner parties (hate me now) and it's goen down pretty well. The two are pretty different. Thicke has a whole ballroom / light latin feel.

Yeah, I've noticed his penchant for bossa rhythms.

his first album is totally underrated. i think i'm the only person i've ever heard of who liked it.

if i was a girl and a dude invited me over and put on this album i'd run away as fast as i could, i mean how can you even listen to 'teach u a lesson' without being really creeped out? it's vile!

-- lex pretend, Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

almost every guy i talk to couldn't care less, but ladies love this

i dont know about that particular song tho, i'd have to listen again

'i need love' is the office fav

(My previous post was prompted by his BET performance, which was pretty much the definition of "weaksauce".)

-- HI DERE, Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:23 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

also his voice is kinda weak live. saw him at the jazz cafe a while back. the girls ate it up cos of that song everyone loves (i like it too) but other than that, the albums kinda soporific.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:18 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Have you guys not seen the performance of "Shooter" on the Tonight Show? He kicked asssss! Lil Wayne, too! They were unstoppable.

I found it

that song stands out in a bad way on the album

yeah I've softened on my "Shooter" hate slightly but it's still horrible in the context of Tha Carter II (unless you mean on the Thicke album).

Hearing "Oh Shooter" (not "Shooter") makes me really want to check out his first album. I really don't get why people love the Wayned "Shooter" so much. They took what was already a great track and in the most artless way imaginable added Lil Wayne dropping Diddygrunts and a verse about how homosexuals are keeping him off radio. Once I heard the original I felt no desire to go back.

hah i meant horrible in the context of the thicke album, i thought it worked well in the carter ii where he was doing beats that were kind of all over the place from 'receipt' to 'fireman' or whatever (although i don't really need to hear it again or anything)

i hadn't heard the original when i heard the wayne version and i also love that donna summer/digital underground/soulja slim bassline

i dont like hearing lil wayne in an otherwise graceful/classy candlelight romance context

Wayne sounds fine on "All Night Long."

If Wayne's verse didn't already confuse what "Shooter" was about, the video adds fucking wacky neighbor hijinks. There's a reason this flopped.

i think i like the song pharrell wrote best. its the most fun and funky in any case.

what song did pharrell write?

'teach u a lesson' is weird. Lyrics are kind of :-/ :-/ :-/

i'm down with the production aesthetic tho, and the vocals are cool, he knows how to not push his voice to hard, let it just sort of sit there

but yeah lyrics on that one are pretty wack

i agree that wayne is much better on 'all night long,' its like a standard R&B guest verse! less corny wayne showboating

lol posting about love songs alone on a fri night :(

hah i just had a holy shit moment when i realized that i had totally seen the video for his first single back in the day and been sorta o_O about it, totally didn't realize it was the same dude! what a shitty haircut!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nNg0ReHeTiM

Robin Thicke has been around for quite a while (he was writing kinda big pop songs in the 90s)

And "Shooter" haters are ridiculously wrong! It's insane and awesome...my fav. single of last year!

ok lex jr.

/ethan jr.

his concert on mtv they've been showing is shit hot damn. his drummer is fish fisher and totally rules the stage.

his drummer is fish fisher

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.prefixmag.com/media/robin-thicke/magic-mp3/18790/

banger!!!

4 on the floor B-D

only in the intro. the rest is hot shit.

u rite

the intro is the best part, but im sorry this track has the built in dna of a "hit" written all over it. cue summer club anthem

i like that it opens w/ bongos + 4 on floor, good for mixing

yeah and that intro disco bassline w sweeping strings is a nice touch :)

i just drunkenly bought this on itunes. it's gonna make a great brass band tune.

haaa
u dudes performing again in chicago soon?

probably not until the fall unfort. going on euro tour this week. we're doing <a href="ABC's "Iesha": Classic or Super Classic?;>this song </a> now at least.

fuck

I always forget how o_O the lyrics to "Lost Without U" are.

I always thought those Tahiti Village ads were hilarious.

"Who know? You might start up a little romance"
http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/admin/alanthick_tahiti.jpg

stand by my defense of this lp

I might listen to nothing but Robin Thicke in 2012.

omg robin thicke's wikipedia photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Thicke

in which he looks like a composite of keith olbermann and rachel maddow

lmao rev

man msnbc u

thicky

apparently it's the only thread about him here.
new video is fun although very misogynist (but Emily Ratajkowksi is great)
The song, not so much and Thicke's singing is just awful !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yekOCpdc6Hc#!

R&B 2013

oh ok, thanks !
poor Robin, doesn't even deserve his own threads !

I know its offsides and lamentable to laugh at your own shit, but I truly enjoy the title of this post, only to discover that I penned it. Oh, I slay me.

Id go full lesbian for emily ratajkowski. Perfect ratio in her body. Im usually against women used as sex dolls but in her case its completely justified.

Just in case you were curious.

Not sure why theyre trying to market robin thicke as a sex symbol, tho.

damn, I was really stressing and having a shitty time today and then "Blurred Lines" came on and all of that was gone instantly

The thinking man's JT.

And don't overthink "Teach U A Lesson," you people above--he's just playing around, and it's a great song.

haha "Blurred Lines" is dumb as hell tho, or at least just dumb enough

i wonder if "locked out of heaven" kinda paved the way for "blurred lines" to go no 1

...in what way?

yeah, what?

Oh, I hadn't even noticed this was #1 in the U.S. now, too. Well done.

With a couple of exceptions, the whole top 10 is surprisingly decent.

on the video evidence, emily ratajkowski & TI are the only ppl featured who can dance

i don't understand the connection b/w "locked out of heaven" and this

P funny to me that theres an 11 year old AiNYC thread for a guy i didnt know existed until a few months ago.

also funny that this long-haired crap tv scion calling himself THICKE wound up with his first #1 eleven years later

Thicke: Slicke or Dicke?

as great as "blurred lines" i wonder if he'd have pulled this off if he stuck with the og haircut and moniker

yeah, wtf this guy had a #1 hit? this ain't the real life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7K7orMOHqY

Cisco Adler take notes.

this being no. 1 is so fucking cynical. I mean this has basically been the model for music videos since forever, but still, how long until someone re-releases their video as straight-up porn and zooms to the top of the charts

he already had a porn star name so why not

tbf the video came out and was taken down in march. his us chart rise really came after it was performed on the voice

further "thicke"-era trivia: dude co-wrote Jordan Knight's "Give It To You" with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

cool

He's really good at dumbfounding me, which I guess is pretty respectable.

― Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Thursday, November 21, 2002 2:17 PM Bookmark

I have to isolate this sentence from a 2002 post because it pretty much sums up his whole career.

"hey, you co-wrote that Jordan Knight hit? Good for you!"

"Yeah, my debut album's coming out! It's called CHERRY BLUE SKIES"

"i see! well...you gonna cut your hair?"

"no! and call me THICKE!"

"..."

hilarious that one of my favorite fake timbaland songs is written by that team. damn

...in what way?

― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:31 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, what?

― The Reverend, Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:43 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

eh something about the groove idk

i love the original video for this so much but it sucks they put out the "unrated version"

kinda ruined the pure wtf joy of the original

Yeah absolutely. It'd be like if the album version didn't say "what rhymes with 'hug me'"

i haven't seen the "unrated" version, but the difference is just that they're topless right? i mean, the models are already half-dressed in the other video, so it seems kind of arbitrary to act like they ruined some innocent fun by being piggish

"why'd they have to go an ruin a delightful swimsuit issue by going full playboy"

It's still on Vevo, you can look and see for yourself if it doesn't substantially lose its charm

the unrated version has less t.i. dancing which is enough to condemn it

xpost i'm sure it does. my point is that the video was ALREADY a bunch of leering dudes in suits surrounded by half-naked women.

i dunno the thing i liked about the video is that it sort of felt like a miracle, like it came out way better than the concept would leave you to believe. there's something accidentally great about it, i think.

the video the unrated version feels crass to me not because there's boobs but because it feels overthought

wish "Love After War" had been the pop hit that Thicke's "Got To Get It Up Pt. 23" is.

if two versions were "one where everybody's in classy nightwear" and "one where the ladies are half-dressed" we'd probably be saying the same thing. what classy ilxor dude is going to say "i prefer the more objectifying one".

i haven't heard "love after war" but i don't begrudge the ongoing Got To Give It Up franchise in fact it should get a montage at the grammys

"love after war" is pretty good as is that entire album but it's no "blurred lines"

if two versions were "one where everybody's in classy nightwear" and "one where the ladies are half-dressed" we'd probably be saying the same thing. what classy ilxor dude is going to say "i prefer the more objectifying one".

waterface!

if you appreciate something specifically for how it dances on the line between tacky and not, then yeah if a 2.0 version drops a month later that leaps over the line it's a buzzkill. not that hard to understand.

i understand it, i just also find it funny to have guys bemoan the fact that someone made a piggish video more piggish

There's levels to this shit.

but hey, how better to illustrate the concept of blurred lines

i haven't seen the "unrated" version, but the difference is just that they're topless right? i mean, the models are already half-dressed in the other video, so it seems kind of arbitrary to act like they ruined some innocent fun by being piggish

― da croupier, Thursday, 13 June 2013

just go watch both videos before opening your fat gob, omfg.

since they're mostly collecting moments of unrehearsed unchoreographed clowning, jagger moves and interaction, one is gonna be different to the other.

i dunno the thing i liked about the video is that it sort of felt like a miracle, like it came out way better than the concept would leave you to believe. there's something accidentally great about it, i think.
...
― J0rdan S

otm

the accidental brilliance of a star trak boner party

it's fine if u don't like the rated video, ur just rong abt why it can be preferred to the unrated

i like it fine! i just was mocking sentiments like "kinda ruined the pure wtf joy of the original" and "It'd be like if the album version didn't say "what rhymes with 'hug me'", which suggested dudes didn't realize they were already enjoying some skeevy shit

the video was annoying rated and is annoying unrated. the nakedness is a red herring because even in the first video the women are still on that creepy dead-eyed cat marnell shit. also, obnoxious hashtags (when did people decide they were okay with those? why does everyone keep the hashtag in "Beautiful" when writing *NSYNC or Wal*Mart would violate every style rule extant?) also, I am not convinced robin thicke is as endowed as he boasts.

robin thine

as far as terry richardson tributes featuring a dude doing a bill cosby tribute go "blurred lines" is definitely top tier

fun fact (according to wikipedia): director diane martel also did the choreography for the "Shiny happy people" video

Shiny happy thicke people

does the unrated version still feature the remy martin bottle?

the women are still on that creepy dead-eyed cat marnell shit

disagree - i think they're affecting a form of model cool that makes them mostly indifferent or ambivalent towards the men, which has the effect of undermining their don juan pretentions and making them ridiculous.

Fawning over men in whatever state of undress is not ambivalence.

yeah i guess there is more fawning and less cool indifference than i remembered. still think "creepy, dead-eyed" is inaccurate tho.

Just watched the video (and just heard this jam of the summer) for the first time. It works because they're all clearly having fun. Much more deadpan than dead-eyed. Everyone in that video has charm.

Prince must be slapping his forehead, the way he prolly did with "Poison" before writing "Gett Off."

omg i didn't know he co-wrote "give it to you". amazing.

j0rdan otm on the difference between the original and unrated videos

what makes the original charming is that the set-up is kind of like behind-the-scenes on a fashion shoot, the off-camera goofing around, having fun with the props etc - there's an awareness of how ridiculous and yes sexist it all is, but there's also chemistry between the models and the dudes - and the models are def doing more than either affecting dead-eyedness or fawning, though there's a bit of both, there's interaction and goofy little facial expressions etc. the unrated version loses a lot of that. and yeah the power imbalance that the nudity introduces makes it...not great. (couldn't u even take your shirt off tip/robin? it actually makes the dudes look less idk manly/brave/whatever to not change anything for this ~special~ version of the video)

Unrated version has better framing. Original has lots of shots that feel cropped.

the "orig" is the nude version; thicke claims he was the one to say uhh dudes we should probably have a clean version too, for whatever that is worth

Ever the gentleman

and yeah the power imbalance that the nudity introduces makes it...not great

yeah see when guys suggest toplessness introduces a power imbalance to a terry richardson style photo shoot involving famous men in tuxes and anonymous women in hot pants, i really can't help but tease

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/1567020/robin-thicke-reveals-blurred-lines-album-release-date-track-list

1. "Blurred Lines" feat. T.I. and Pharrell
2. "Take It Easy On Me"
3. "Ooo La La "
4. "Ain't No Hat 4 That"
5. "Get In My Way"
6. "Give It 2 U" feat. Kendrick Lamar
7. "Feel Good"
8. "Go Stupid 4 U"
9. "4 The Rest Of My Life"
10. "Top Of The World"
11. "The Good Life"

finally a short robin thicke record

i'm gonna guess that came together fairly quickly

Something Else is 12 tracks and is pretty great

ain't no hat 4 that, nooooo, no can do

yeah see when guys suggest toplessness introduces a power imbalance to a terry richardson style photo shoot involving famous men in tuxes and anonymous women in hot pants, i really can't help but tease

― da croupier, Friday, June 14, 2013 11:29 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah both versions are just terry richardson photo shoots, don't really know what all of you are on about tbh

if you appreciate something specifically for how it dances on the line between tacky and not, then yeah if a 2.0 version drops a month later that leaps over the line it's a buzzkill. not that hard to understand.

― some dude, Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

lol rtc

i wouldnt put it past him tbh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTqmiwHHktE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTqmiwHHktE

if you appreciate something specifically for how it dances on the line between tacky and not, then yeah if a 2.0 version drops a month later that leaps over the line it's a buzzkill. not that hard to understand.

― some dude, Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

― J0rdan S., Friday, June 14, 2013 8:14 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

again, you're both confused if you think anyone doesn't understand why the second was a bonerkill. mocking the self-flattering language you use to defend the boner you had before the bonerkill. can you really argue the blurred lines "dances on the line between tacky and not"? what exactly is that line, pg-13 objectification vs. r? or at that only when the shirts come off there's a power imbalance, or that it's just harmless frisky wtf joy turned dark at that point. you really have to be through the rap video looking glass to think your stance on what's a pig bridge too far isn't arbitrary. and again, i enjoy the video fine but I know it's some sexist shit and bemoaning that an unrated version made the sexism even more blatant is hilarious.

people are mocking the language, i mean

yeah j0rdan stop defending your boner for those naked girls

i'm just suck of him and lex seeing women as nothing but conquest material is that so wrong

i actually thought my needless inclusion of "rap" in front of "video" was going to be someone's chance to claim the high ground while ignoring the point

haha woah obv typo xpost

anyway i'm just lolling at guys claiming their swimsuit issue was turned tawdry by nipple that's all

thicke: sucke or ducke

finally watched the unrated vid (didn't realize vevo wouldn't make me log-in to anything!) and yeah i think i might have liked it more. still had dudes dancing around goofily (plus) still had hashtags (minus) more shots of a giant syringe, fewer of a remy martin bottle and if i'm going to see a bunch of half-naked girls dance around i'm not bothered by them being topless.

not seen or heard but gonna give thicke the unbenefit of the paltry doubt i have and dismiss him as a completely shit fucker whom i have neither the time nor the inclination for, whether he is an important cultural phenomenon or not

yeah i'm gonna rep for unrated one also. both vids are crass and sexist, unrated one manages to be hotter and more ridiculous (at some point you're just like 'good lord throw a shirt on already') plus when emily ratajkowski starts doing that goofy as hell dance w/ her titties out, man that is some cognitive dissonance. video's better than it should be on paper - some schmucks goof around w/ some half naked models, it's a coy 'cherry pie' video really and who needs that, it really does have all the style of a radio shack commercial minus the pathos of a ving rhames or a howie long.

in either version, the best thing about the video is t.i.'s dancing and the worst thing is pharrell's hat

n.b. Pharrell singing "You the hottest bitch in this place" to the goat.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/17/blurred-lines-robin-thicke-s-summer-anthem-is-kind-of-rapey.html

I don't get this. It's a song where a guy is trying to seduce a girl who already has a boyfriend or husband to cheat with him and have wild sex. There are a million songs like this. I don't see any "rapey" lyrics in it.

Like, the girl in the song is apparently grabbing him. There's a difference between saying "I know you want it" (i.e. "c'mon") in that context and, like, shouting "HEY, I KNOW YOU WANT IT!" at a random girl across the street.

The blogosphere requires perpetual outrage

Yeah, once a song becomes that popular, there just has to be clueless thinkpieces about it. When the Gotye song hit #1 there was the dumbest Jezebel post about hey the guy in this song probably wasn't a good boyfriend, he sounds like a creep!

I like Maura's nbd appearance in that article. Once you start singling out pop songs in which the guy sounds like a bit of a creep where do you stop? Lucky for Sting that Every Breath You Take predated Jezebel.

Frannie Kelley too! She's cool, I wish she posted here.

i guess it's a valid topic of discussion but i don't know the song is very obviously about thicke trying to coax a woman out of her shell, not trying to get her blackout drunk so he can fuck her

i guess it's a valid topic of discussion but i don't know the commercial is very obviously about psy trying to coax a pistachio out of its shell

I hate constructions like "kinda (bad thing)y" and "quasi-(bad thing)" that allow writers to demand a defense without outright claiming the offense.

I also don't think it does the end-rape-culture cause much of a service to casually throw around that kind of construction.

Yeah, "kinda rapey" is offensive all round

article itself is appreciated though, at least for showing how much sympathy (or the lack of it) affects ones perception of sexism/sexual aggressiveness.

a lot of the time in cases like this there's a real failure to understand that the visual aspect of pop music may bely the actual substance of the song - especially with mainstream/pop artists, i find their public image (a vague, nebulous thing that lends itself to kinda-constructions) is a lot more conservative/careful/rigid than the actual words they sing

in this case it's annoying b/c there's a valid discussion about misogyny to be had but calling the song "kinda rapey" is not it

Also, the default mode of writing nowadays is flippant. The worst sin is treating serious stuff seriously.

totally. i can't really do humorous writing anyway but i especially can't do it about stuff i know a lot about, or love a great deal. when i can write flippantly it's because i don't really care about my subject

I know there's a whole thread devoted to this tone of voice but I cannot wait for bloggers to stop hiding behind flippant-feeble "erm"s and "kinda"s.

Yeah, uh that skinhead band is a WEE BIT TOO holocausty for my tastes.

Haha

I cannot wait for things that are never going to happen also.

"Lucky for Sting that Every Breath You Take predated Jezebel."

actual lol

i mean i guess the whole 'any song where a man shows a sexual interest in a woman is now rapey' ideal espoused by some feminist blogs is very 'caricature of feminists in pcu' shit

and i mean i STILL listen to a lot of hard rock. so

tbf "i know you want it" is a step beyond the expression of sexual interest. A less sympathetic son of a tv star would get oodles of shit for a song that declares you "the hottest bitch in this place," reaffirms all that stands between you is your "good girl" status, and then offers drugs in the last verse.

also if the well-dressed men surrounded by topless women weren't doing vaudeville routines

kind of wish this feminist internet reaction existed when "give it to you" came out

one of the most uncomfortable songs to karaoke

someone put robin's vocal over puddle of mudd - "blurry lines" to show how much context matters

or just get chad kroeger to cover it

But "I know you want it" is bracketed by him talking about how she's grabbing him, and the earlier "you're an animal" lines seem to indicate that it's not a metaphor...

I dunno. All this stuff is so thorny. And there is so much worse misogyny out there that is actively denying of women's sexual agency, you know?

yeah there is, but if someone's skeeved by robin they're not wrong to be. and while i'm not much for outrage-culling, acknowledging that the cute can be piggish has its value.

Oh sure, and it's not like we're otherwise in some golden era for the way that male-female relationships play out in pop culture, either.

yeah, i just think that whether a song is gross or not probably shouldn't be judged primarily by our individual "can get it"-o-meters and if people are giving robin a pass for language they'd crucify chad for it's worth looking at why and whether it's anything more than taste in haircuts.

they should have replaced the models with Chad Kroger in the unrated version

But "I know you want it" is bracketed by him talking about how she's grabbing him, and the earlier "you're an animal" lines seem to indicate that it's not a metaphor...

― maura, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:08 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what if it's REALLY not a metaphor and the song is about the goat

yeah, i just think that whether a song is gross or not probably shouldn't be judged primarily by our individual "can get it"-o-meters and if people are giving robin a pass for language they'd crucify chad for it's worth looking at why and whether it's anything more than taste in haircuts.

― da croupier, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:16 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well except I think criticizing women for "giving robin a pass" because of their "can get it" o meters (which I'm not saying you're doing) starts to get into the territory of "denying womens' sexual agency." I mean it reminds me of those butthurt internet nerd comments that you always see about how "HARUMPH, GUESS IT'S NOT SEXUAL HARASSMENT IF HE'S HOT" -- well (1) no, that's not true, but(2) the "unwanted" part of "repeated unwanted advances" parts is kind of a key element of what makes something harassment.

Like, sorry butthurt internet nerd, you're not as hot as Robin Thicke, and women might want him to say something that they don't want you to say.

And that's a "might" -- it doesn't mean they do, but you're not entitled to some level playing field with Robin Thicke just because, and women shouldn't really be criticized for not giving you that level playing field.

i apologize for the implication but i didn't mean to primarily single out women re "can-get-i"-o-meters, or that personal preferences shouldn't affect one's perception of music - obviously men and women are influenced by their tastes, obviously tastes does influence our preferences, and they should. if someone gives robin thicke's "blurred lines" a 9 and chad kroeger's "blurred lines" a 4 because of haircut, genre, etc that's totally cool. i'm just saying if one's a sexy gentleman and one's a "kinda rapey" pig because of haircut and guitar tone, that's a sign we're not actually dealing with the content of the music. i never would judge someone for what they do or don't find hot, enjoyable, etc (well not seriously judge them), but I do think writers should be conscious of what they're responding to and letting slide.

itt guy who typed "pussy buffet" onto ILX on three separate occasions parses sexist language

i have no problem with rock guys being overtly into women though! shit, one of my favorite musical discoveries of last year was an extended girl-as-car metaphor by a guy whose physical appearance i only have the vaguest knowledge of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEYhapqsb3I

i mean there's always context. the rest of robin thicke's catalog would seem to indicate that he, y'know, likes women as human beings.

smart take

I think Thicke's got the same songwritery/model detachment as Chris Isaak that can make him flirt with models in a video without it coming across as entitlement or worse.

(Also because the dude is married and talks about his marriage and makes his wife the love object in all of his other videos!)

smart take

― balls, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:10 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

!

you have such an insane memory when it comes to ilxors

always nice to know there are dudes still thinking about dumb shit i said in 2005

haha i just remembered you were kinda ott zealous in yr defense of 'the whisper song' so it was kinda weird to see you go in on this much more innocuous thicke song (more weird to see to see those old responding to the larger debate voice pieces w/o the context of the actual larger debate, i can barely remember what you're responding to there though i think jessica hopper was involved). 'kinda rapey's too far for this track but it's obv skeezy, more so than default hair metal trax about girls (which when not obv ott gleeful misogynist could be kinda ott vulnerable romantic)(the only huge hair metal act i can think of right now that was really better in misogynist mode and they knew it was motley crue; g'n'f'n'r, cinderella, skid row, bon jovi were better bringing on the heartbreak), less so than kanye on his best day. video amplifies it obv (though bros playful disinterest probably mitigates a little bit) but it's there in the song also.

I'm predicting circles of dancing gals at nightclubs pointed at each other and mouthing "You're the finest bitch in this place" for the next 12-18 months.

yeah maura sorry i've got you on the defense here, i'm being strawmanny and asking for that - shades of 'wait', oddly enough. where i was all defensively "hey don't say it's wrong for men to be sexually aggressive" to no one in particularly all those years ago now my stance is "let's just admit this stuff can be gross if you're not playing along," again to no one in particular. i was on better ground when there were particulars re: the sfw video, obv.

wait til you see my thicke

lol

haha some dude otm

nailed it

ship!

Just watched the unrated video. Daddy horny, michael.

wait so there's a 1970s hit that sounds a LOT like Blurred Lines. I can't think of what it is but it has cowbell and a falsetto male voice, and I feel like it might be War or KC and the Sunshine Band or something.

LOL

YouTube commenters say Gaye stole the beat from Thicke. Film at 11.

Rémi Vouliot 1 week ago

Marvin so gayyyy! He stole Robin Thicke song omFG KILL HIM

durr yup that's the song

Tbh "either it's defensible or it aint" is a p fine sentence-long summation of croup's pov itt imo #hourslater

more like "you can like something skeevy, just admit that's what it is."

Wait, so this isn't a sample? This is just them making the song sound like the Marvin song?

pharrell rarely (if ever?) samples

Yeah, but he (and most) rarely craft a song that sounds remarkably like a hit song from 30 years ago.

it's an homage certainly

I was kind of surprised that MJ-like ad lib looped throughout the song wasn't a sample

is there a good ~9 min baleric mix of this yet y/n

If I were him, I'd bump up the album release date immediately. This thing's gonna peak before the record is even out at this rate.

eh part of the game these days. he'll get to capitalize on his summer jam in late July way more than Carly Rae Jepson did in mid-September.

glad that 2 Chainz/Kendrick/will.i.am song isn't on the album tracklist.

this album sounded great to me, really happy with how it turned out. the best stuff is up-tempo... even the edm songs work i think! the song w/ kendrick & 2 chainz is on the album, they just cut 2 chainz's verse

whiney likes half of it

is there a lot of Thicke/Pro J stuff in his usual mode or is it wall to wall outside producers like Sex Therapy?

"the edm songs" btw = the second track and "give it 2 u"

i dunno about producers, that info wasn't included.

i just mean was there still boilerplate thicke bossa nova jams and piano ballads really

nah

"4 the rest of my life" is a instructive as far as the ballads go

but yeah there isn't any bossa nova stuff, it sounds a lot more like they're going for hits a la "magic" (tho not that philly soul)

This is p good is there a video

haha

whether she accomplished this is i guess an entirely different ball of wax http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/80424/qa-veteran-music-video-director-diane-martel-on-her-controversial-videos-for-robin-thicke-and-miley-cyrus

I wanted to deal with the misogynist, funny lyrics in a way where the girls were going to overpower the men. Look at Emily Ratajkowski’s performance; it’s very, very funny and subtly ridiculing. That’s what is fresh to me. It also forces the men to feel playful and not at all like predators. I directed the girls to look into the camera, this is very intentional and they do it most of the time; they are in the power position. I don’t think the video is sexist. The lyrics are ridiculous, the guys are silly as fuck. That said, I respect women who are watching out for negative images in pop culture and who find the nudity offensive, but I find [the video] meta and playful.

Was the intention to always do both a regular and unrated version?

I wanted to do a nude video and turned the job down when they said we couldn’t. They came back agreeing to do the nude one if I would do a clothed version.

it's very "baby, it's cold outside" - there are very sympathetic and unsympathetic ways to read it and nobody's really wrong.

I don't get that thing about "the diminishing importance of music videos". Since "Call Me Maybe" and "Gangnam Style" and especially the subsequent allowing for YouTube plays to play a (significant) part in Billboard chart positions, in other words, post-"Harlem Shake", music videos have become enormously important again for the music industry. The interviewer apparently is not aware of that, but I'm sure Diane Martel is. It's probably the very reason for her new "commercial" approach to begin with.

i guess you didn't get to the part where she said this:

Most labels don’t give a fuck about videos anymore. Maybe they will again, I don’t know. It’s grim right now.

which we can debate the merits of, but i think to anyone who was doing mariah carey videos in the 90s "enormously important" would be on a different scale than post-harlem shake.

My guess would be the labels want directors to deliver a viral hit for no budget.

yeah i bet the budget for a video that doesn't double as an alcohol or tech ad IS pretty grim right now

Not that the Robin Thicke video looks like it cost a lot, kind of the opposite

The Miley video is terrible but it does look semi-expensively terrible

i'm only so sympathetic to the complaint though - record labels having bands make videos that cost as much as the album was and is fucking insane

I definitely think there's something to what Martel says -- there's a tension between the classic sexual objectification elements of the video and the fact that she's looking right at you with sort of sarcastic, mocking looks, the fact that the men in the video look kind of ridiculous, the fact that the song borders on sexually frustrated begging, etc. All that also kind of makes it more hot.

Visual aesthetic of the "Blurred Lines" video kind of reminds me of

http://justintimberlake.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Justin-Timberlake-FutureSexLoveSounds-399x399.jpg

pretty much everything about recent robin thicke says "less boyish justin timberlake" imo

differing perspectives on booby, remy and hashtag aside - "Blurred Lines" is a great video as far as selling the song and the artist go. the mood definitely is playful (up to you whether that's actually subversive or not), we get some a+ clowning and robin's blue laser beam eyes are stunning

(xposts)

If we're talking (or if the interviewer is) about the diminishing importance of the music video since the 80s or 90s, then sure. I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, it was about the current area. I don't think there's any doubt that videos have become much more important now compared to a couple of years back, but whether that means bigger budgets (yet) - that's a different matter.

area=era obviously.

"Blurred Lines" video is the comedy mask to "Wicked Game"'s tragedy mask.

it took a couple listens but the song is a complete blast btw

Reminds me of sexyback more than anything else, but track of the summer already

aside from "blurred lines" the album has a timbaland production, two will.i.am productions (one is a co-prod w/ dr luke) and the rest is pro jay

both will i am songs (including the one already leaked) are really good imo. the timbaland one sounds something that got cut from FS/LS updated for the EDM era but is still pretty tuneful. the pro jay stuff is the best tho, really funky and soulful. easily some of the best stuff he's ever recorded imo.

Funny that he's still at 2 Pharrell productions out of 5 albums on Star Trak

it took a couple listens but the song is a complete blast btw

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, June 26, 2013 1:01 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^5

actually i guess the song w/ kendrick is just dr. luke, but will.i.am wrote on it

also alan thicke has a writing credit

ha

sharin' the laughter and love

this song is what i wanted JT to come back with, at least someone did

god save me from people who defend shit like this by saying "it's playful!"

i'm only so sympathetic to the complaint though - record labels having bands make videos that cost as much as the album was and is fucking insane

― da croupier, Wednesday, June 26, 2013 3:15 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

http://i.imgur.com/16AUCQ0.jpg

if there's any album that cost more than any video it's prob UYI though

this song is what i wanted JT to come back with, at least someone did

x2

this being no. 1 is so fucking cynical. I mean this has basically been the model for music videos since forever, but still, how long until someone re-releases their video as straight-up porn and zooms to the top of the charts

― katherine, Thursday, June 13, 2013 5:37 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

WELL THAT WAS FAST http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/1568870/justin-timberlake-admires-naked-women-in-nsfw-tunnel-vision-video

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/07/02/198097817/the-record-when-pop-stars-flirt-with-danger

The problem I have with that piece is that it's operating under some weird assumption that sex and debauchery are something new in pop music which is just kind of like ok, nice forced narrative there.

dude it's NPR.

Yeah, I know most NPR listeners haven't heard of sex.

The problem I have with that piece is that it's operating under some weird assumption that sex and debauchery are something new in pop music which is just kind of like ok, nice forced narrative there.

― The Reverend, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:10 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

really nice summation of the weird vibes i get from this piece

Eh, I think she's just asking the temperature of the times and coming up with some conclusions and possibly legit concerns. There's nothing in there that really suggests that this is a new thing in pop--she even makes reference to pop cultural cycles that suggests that we are simply at one point in an ongoing one here.

I think Powers is kind of a breath of fresh air (ha ha) for NPR, actually.

its not just sex and debauchery. there's a particular sort of woozy trashy vibe that's very of-the-moment that she's onto.

we follow a prophet named Britney. gotta be a sign of something.

i think thats a good piece if a lil ... i want more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RafBVjElPCQ

oh wait, do we hate this track? I just skimmed the thread.

depends on your acceptance of the certitude that JT should have been recording tracks like this in 2013.

its not just sex and debauchery. there's a particular sort of woozy trashy vibe that's very of-the-moment that she's onto.

― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:04 PM Bookmark

I only really buy this so far as in rap it went from being cool to sell drugs to being cool to use drugs and yeah, that particular strain of rap is an influence on the Miley song, but not the #THICKE at all. I mean, he even got one of the definitive rappers of the selling drugs is cool era on his joint.

Reminds me of sexyback more than anything else, but track of the summer already

Man, between this and Daft Punk, Pharrell ruling the songs of the summer.

Many critiques of Cyrus rightly question why this privileged young woman has chosen to adopt an "urban" style grounded in the most abject aspects of African-American culture, as it's been filtered through a "hipster-racist" subculture that reduces black masculinity to thug primitivism and femininity to door-knocker earrings and big, juicy butts.

"hipster-racist subculture"? i usually feel like i'm up on things but powers talks like this is just some known thing she can allude to, without providing any links either to this hipster-racist subculture or of the many critiques of it. then again i have become a fogey. this is a thing? hipster-racist subculture? what is she talking about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f49kd7ht5cU

there's this board that has covered hipster racism incredibly extensively, you should check it out, it's called ilx

thanks chooch

I'm sure it's not a term you could google or anything like that

Yeah, the article is sloppy, for sure.

But some aspects got me thinking. The link between the Cyrus video and Spring Breakers makes an intuitive kind of sense, along with the comments on the Selfie/Self. Also think 'We Can't Stop' has a stronger connection to Shapiro's stuff specifically on accelerationist aesthetics, the relief that comes as we begin to reach rock bottom.

For better or worse, Diane Martel has made two of the most arresting music videos this year. Breathing life into a dying format.

I enjoy that this thread was started by Alex in NYC.

eh i don't really think that piece is sloppy beyond the necessity of speaking in broad strokes. although everything she says about 'blurred lines' is a dismayingly mumsy kludge ("how the vulnerable models that Thicke ogles make it through the gauntlet that the video's scene creates") compared to the relatively fleet and perceptive places it leads her

no clue how 'body party' and ariana grande fit in either but hey

also like srsly how is anyone supposed to keep a straight face at "critique by Racialicious blogger", i mean

For seven whole minutes, Timberlake and his pal Timbaland are seen staring in awe at writhing women with alluring looks plastered on their faces and flesh-colored g-strings serving as their only clothing. Ironically, the lyrics of the (still-great) single focus on the singer's undying fixation on a single romantic partner, but at one point in the "Tunnel Vision" video, JT's face is projected upon the bare bodies of three ladies, as we, the viewer, wonder what Jessica Biel could possibly think of this music video.

we the viewer

Yup, got it.

I dunno, maybe sloppy is putting it too strongly. It's just that some of the connections are interesting, and others are not so interesting. Or just weird and maybe even offensive. Like "hipster-racist subculture"? Is this really a thing?

Oh, to just repeat Tracer...

think hipster-racist subculture would just be "young white people".

Damn, that sucks.

The problem I have with that piece is that it's operating under some weird assumption that sex and debauchery are something new in pop music which is just kind of like ok, nice forced narrative there.

― The Reverend, Thursday, July 4, 2013 3:10 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Had this conversation with my gf the other day, the weird idea that a lyric like "you know you want it" is somehow something novel in pop music. You could argue that "you know you want it" is pretty much the subtext of pop music in general, which occasional detours into "you know I want it," "we both know we want it" and "I know you want it but you're gonna have to work for it."

my quibble is more that some of the lyrics that follow like "the way you grab me" and "go ahead, get at me" pretty much come out and say, barring any unreliable narrator thing, that the woman is clearly into it, and he's letting her make the next move. it just makes it kinda not the best song to hang all these accusations on, even if the video does invariably lead to uncharitable interpretations.

Yeah that was what my girlfriend said, that the theoretical object of attention here is obviously at least somewhat into him. It all sounds like your basic dancefloor come-on. And I'm completely fine with turning a feminist gaze on the whole history of dancefloor come-ons, but if you're going to do that there are legions of more objectionable examples out there.

look i like ann powers! but calling twerking an "abject aspect of black culture"... idgi

i usually don't like being the "you're overthinking this" dude but the miley cyrus video to me seems like a pretty obvious flavor of "shock your parents"? and in this respect is miles away from #thicke? it's true that there's usually an element of exotica to shocking one's parents and that can be questionable. (in my case, as a naive 14-year-old attempting to assert myself, the exotica in question was thrash metal.) but i feel like if you do the math, it's better to have this kind of cross-dressing than not?

re #thicke i am on board w/tipsy's gf and some dude

it was the "chapel in the pines" that kinda scared me when i was a little kid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4-nCfoIIEQ

trace did you just skim the article or what

Was it Pharrell that described the song as self-parody, just two old married dudes lost in their fantasies yelling like idiots at girls from their porch?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrm1BL1KF33yXmvOhsQQ45R2eO3N35P4wUGt62-SX6UsflrMXT

"Go ahead, get at me."

Was it Pharrell that described the song as self-parody, just two old married dudes lost in their fantasies yelling like idiots at girls from their porch?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, July 5, 2013 11:33 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's another thing that has always struck me as funny about this, Thicke and T.I. are probably two of the most outwardly devoted husbands in pop music right now

isn't supposed to be sorta liberating? "he tried to domesticate you", "that man is not your maker," "you the hottest bitch in this place" etc. i think the imagery of the song is obviously of a give and take between two people.

that's another thing that has always struck me as funny about this, Thicke and T.I. are probably two of the most outwardly devoted husbands in pop music right now

Yeah, that's what makes this miles away from, say, Kanye's verse in "N's in Paris."

since it's all from his perspective, it's simply a matter of whether you believe him or you don't. A lot of people find Robin charming, cute, funny, etc so it's easy for them to believe his tale of a woman who hates her boyfriend and wants to fuck him but is a good girl and hey maybe she should smoke this. HOWEVER, the song is about a dude hitting on an attached girl, blaming social mores for their inability to fuck and offering drugs, if the very same song was sung by someone with less cred/charm/whatever, like Cisco Adler or some other son of an industry vet, it'd be easy to imagine saying he comes off like a creep or at least a jackass.

could be a Tommy Lee rap-metal anthem.

thicke to me is less cute/funny than knowingly ridiculous in an r. kelly mode, but sure. i never really assumed the other man in the song was a current relationship and not an ex ("tried to domesticate you" instead of "trying to") but maybe that's a stretch.

like, enjoy the song if you enjoy it - i do! but if someone else is like "dudes with duck-ass haircuts surrounded by naked women saying I want it? barf" it's stupid to whimper that there's so much worse in the world, cuz it's fair to find that gross.

itt you basically just go "don't misrepresent or diminish the validity of my opinion the way i just did with your opinion" over and over

i know you want that

go ahead, get at my goat

trace did you just skim the article or what

iirc there were some words, then racist hipsters were lovin on some juicy butts, then some other words, then pop music was a liberating zone of ludic play, then we woke up and felt obligated to reassert cultural apartheid in the pop charts

(i.e. yes)

this is such a weird debate

it's like we learned nothing from spinal tap

http://hiphop2013.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/robin-thicke-blurred-lines-ft-pharrell-t-i-pic018.png

lol

when are some dude and da croupier gonna kiss, make up, and start a poll of songs that peaked at No. 15 by female solo artists

Hay!

whiney stop objectifying me

that happens in the uncensored version of the thread, duh

eh i don't really think that piece is sloppy beyond the necessity of speaking in broad strokes.

itt we make the word 'necessity' work as hard as possible

in the part where t.i. goes "she aint bad as you" i thought he was saying shane battier. anyway thats my newest post about Blurred Lines by Robin Thicke, T.I. and Pharrell Williams. catch u guys on the flipside

god that jt video is awful

JT video sucks. Wonder how things would have worked out if Neptunes became his BFFs rather than Timbo.

i think there are some effectively edited moments in the JT video i think

boring concept though

it's kind of amazing how dull and un-sexy it is. and SEVEN MINUTES LONG. it's basically a screensaver with boobs and dorky air-drumming.

heh powers makes the same connection that j0rdan did upthread: The mood began to shift this way with Bruno Mars's feel-good song of compulsive lust, "Locked Out of Heaven," which shares percussive body sounds with "Blurred Lines."

xp otm

lol i didn't even realize the little vocal loop in the JT song was saying "I know you like it" until the words flashed across the screen, more shades of Thicke

#thicke is in my building!

shades of thicke

http://youtu.be/0xvZtSEgGyk

I love it.

lol

This makes me sad that Shakira's "Underneath Your Clothes" came out before the viral era, so we never got some dude crooning at the piano about how he's the man you chose, he's your territory

JT video sucks. Wonder how things would have worked out if Neptunes became his BFFs rather than Timbo.

He would have recorded "Blurred Lines"

JT video sucks. Wonder how things would have worked out if Neptunes became his BFFs rather than Timbo.

neptunes were mostly hot garbage by the time timberlake made FS/LS and most of the album tracks on justified are flimsy beach cabana bs

"Blurred Lines" is so fundamentally Robin Thicke in its vocal melodies/lyrics, JT would never have written that song.

I was going for the zing but I meant he would have tried a long, airy, falsetto-plagued late seventies-indebted track: an unsuccessful "Let's Take a Ride."

on 3 different occasions yesterday i found myself with 3 great songs in my head (anklebiters, bitch don't kill my vibe, dreams and nightmares) and thought to myself 3 times "man, what a great song to have stuck in my head", and then every time 5 minutes later they were all replaced with blurred lines

i'm very glad that i am immune to robin thicke

Neptunes album tracks on Justified are dope

most of the album tracks on justified are flimsy beach cabana bs

yeah, insanity

FlimsyBeach/CabanaBS

j0rdan loves 20/20 Experience and hated on "Senorita" in the Neptunes poll, we don't need to listen to him on this topic

i didn't hate on "senorita"!

i like that song! i voted for that song!

i'm very glad that j0rdan challops was not permitted to slide

maura's link has been pulled. here it is elsewhere:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e3qwrz#p01cgqnt

yeah that's amazing

on 3 different occasions yesterday i found myself with 3 great songs in my head (anklebiters, bitch don't kill my vibe, dreams and nightmares) and thought to myself 3 times "man, what a great song to have stuck in my head", and then every time 5 minutes later they were all replaced with blurred lines

― ty based gay dead computer god (zachlyon), Tuesday, July 9, 2013 7:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

lol

on 3 different occasions yesterday i found myself with 3 great songs in my head (anklebiters, bitch don't kill my vibe, dreams and nightmares) and thought to myself 3 times "man, what a great song to have stuck in my head", and then every time 5 minutes later they were all replaced with blurred lines

This is like the start of some epic top 40 themed apocalypse novel. Soon the entire world is infected and then mostly dead, and the 2% of the population left walks around like zombies, shuffling their feet to "Blurred Lines." And Thicke is their zombie king. JT is the one hero tasked with restoring order, aided by the disembodied voice of an AI Jay-Z, which Jay-Z had backed up when the end of the world was nigh. JT could have taken the disembodied Chris Martin, too, but he left it behind.

I was thinking the book could be called Left Behind. (Book One: Blurred Lines)

an l. custos joint

my rule for summer jams is that it has to be able to convincingly soundtrack a montage of all four golden girls acting saucy; by this metric blurred lines knocks it out of the park

lol I may have to adopt that system

starting from :42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hNLNuysl4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hNLNuysl4

this is out there. j0rd otm about even the edm-ish tracks working, mostly bc "take it easy on me" almost sounds like edm via timbo (no idea who actually produced it)

suuuper fat bass lines on this record

I just realized "Blurred Lines" is the most barbershop quartet pinstripe hat and cane-ass song on the radio since "Bottoms Up"

j0rd otm about even the edm-ish tracks working, mostly bc "take it easy on me" almost sounds like edm via timbo (no idea who actually produced it)

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, July 11, 2013 3:27 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

timbo! this one is kinda my least favorite on the album because it sounds very much like a FS/LS leftover to me but it still works

yeah the backing vocals totally read as fs/ls jt even

suuuper fat bass lines on this record

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Nice, gotta get this tonight.

anyone catch him on "Good Morning, America" today?

Q: People are saying it's sexist.
A: I can't even that claim seriously

Q: They say you're misogynist
A: I'm not. I've been married to the same woman for years.

*segment ends*

.....

I love the thread title. It should have been the album title as well. I can see the cover now: on one side there he is in tuxedo and bowtie a la James Bond (Slicke), on the other he is wearing a worn bowler hat and dungarees a la Stan Laurel (Dicke), in the middle he is looking cross-eyed and bemused (Thicke).

an l. custos joint

this album is very good!

i hear very JT-esque backing vox on "take it easy on me" but not anything egregiously FS/LS?

this is the album JT should've made this year. thicke going all-out for fun is a good look on him.

I still have no idea what Rev thinks is barbershop quartet-ish about "Bottoms Up." it has...vocal harmonies?

Just realized that Thicke has a few years on JT. And Pharrell hit 40. Good for these never-age guys, finger on the pulse of the fickle youth market.

kanye's 38, too

though dudes' age in pop has rarely been a talking point or a barrier as it would be with women (at 40, madonna was already getting cracks about her age i think?)

Helps that Pharrell looks like he's 12.

This album is so much better - or at least listenable - than JT's snooze-fest.

I still have no idea what Rev thinks is barbershop quartet-ish about "Bottoms Up." it has...vocal harmonies?

― Picasso Birdman (some dude), Friday, July 12, 2013 3:57 AM Bookmark

The harmonies are sooooo barbershop. Stuck out at me the first time I heard it. I swear me and some others had some whole conversation about this somewhere but I can't find it.

it was mark sinker @ the singles jukebox http://www.thesinglesjukebox.com/?p=2792

(conversation continues in comments)

oh huh, I guess I mentally inserted myself into that convo, but yeah that was the one I was thinking of

I am now dancing around my living room to this album

:D

"i've been working at it ever since i came on this planet / i ain't quite there yet but i'm gettin better at it" is like the most modest rap lyric i've ever heard

not here for his sleepy raps on "Top of the World" tho

"i've been working at it ever since i came on this planet / i ain't quite there yet but i'm gettin better at it" is like the most modest rap lyric i've ever heard

― lex pretend, Friday, July 12, 2013 12:39 PM Bookmark

love that line but I'm assuming this a wrong thread thing

haha yes, the ciara one

awesome track not on the standard edition of the album, guessing this'll be a bonus track:

http://rapradar.com/2013/07/15/new-music-robin-thicke-go-stupid-4-u/

This is proficient: the integration of the piano runs into the electronic textures; Kendrick Lamar's cameo is my favorite of his recent guest appearances; and Thicke sounds enthused. But I don't know if in 2013 I want good Maroon 5 or Timberlake. I think I'm burned out on this kind of falsetto love man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crBNdOREZE0

perfect

though dudes' age in pop has rarely been a talking point or a barrier as it would be with women (at 40, madonna was already getting cracks about her age i think?)

I read plenty of cracks about "creepy middle-aged men" re: the video but yes, women get it far worse.

Kanye's 36 btw

i can't quite believe there isn't a female version yet

the lyrics don't come across as particularly odd with flipped pronouns tbh

SNL just praying the video's still hot by the fall so they can get Taram and Bobby out in short-shorts

has diane martel given her perspective on the "beats by dre" edit of the video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbtewxfcptw

uploaded by RadioShack

Thicke has said that the video was self-funded with help from advertising and no label support, and the Radio Shack ad certainly looks like it's from the same shoot, so she probably made it. They prob just waited to 'reveal' the ad the same way Chris Brown already had his "double your flavor" song on the pop charts before the Double Mint commercial aired.

perfect

― caek da killa (Spottie_Ottie_Dope), Thursday, 18 July 2013 16:51 (41 minutes ago) Bookmark

http://youtu.be/jY47FpGHoDI

i like it better the other way around

haha

there may have been no "label support" in the sense that no money went against Thicke's advance, but it's an ad for the President of Interscope's product starring the president of Star Trak so it's yet another "blurred line" on that front.

i tried flicking thru the album and as expected it instantly dessicated my vagina, will never understand how people have any meaningful time for this assclown

ain't no hat 4 that, nooooo, no can do

― r|t|c, Friday, 14 June 2013 20:52 (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i wouldnt put it past him tbh

― r|t|c, Friday, 14 June 2013 21:37 (1 month ago) Bookmark

close enough ffs, i'm claiming it

I appreciate that more than ten years on we still haven't settled the titular question.

totally!!

America has already responded and the answer is "both"

I normally don't give a shit about Vampire Weekend but this is killing me for some reason http://prettymuchamazing.com/music/vampire-weekend-blurred-lines-cover

I've listened to it five times already. I'm also pretty into the original too, though.

pretty terrible, but it's funny because VW guy sings like Thicke sang on his first album before he was any good

"you the hottest fish in this place" ??

This cover is vile.

What a relief this is dreadful. It makes Koenig human.

qotsa already did it on the same show

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouMIRFibxA8

did vw actually do there's live? if so, i hope there's a video so we can hear who's doing all the back-up vox

ugh "their" typo and bah

http://youtu.be/ouMIRFibxA8

it's kinda whatever but points for homme's on-theme shakers

people, we have reached defcon "ignition (remix)," this is not a drill

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/arts/music/robin-thicke-a-romantic-has-a-naughty-hit.html?_r=0

Read that as "has a naughty dick"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElUhnffAOug

the video!

the "vampire weekend live in studio" video, that is

idk why it is so funny to me. I guess because it sounds kinda like one of those terrible soundalike covers of pop songs you find on digital music sites/spotify/etc, and I always think those are hilarious.

the link above will die soon. video:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e54mxj#p01d109n

imo the vampire weekend versh proves how much of a highwire act the original is; despite sounding so casual it's very easy to make the whole thing a bit samey and bludgeoning (and easy to miss the notes, too)

vw version would be cool if they sounded like they were having as much fun as their background singers

The backup singer on the far right is Vula Malinga who seems to pop up at every concert I go to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmj6hdBrXQ

she was on a basement jaxx album a few years ago iirc too

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a526efadb74421555dacf3f7cfceab44/tumblr_mqce4oiyZ01qe4fj5o1_400.gif

nice

vw version would be cool if they sounded like they were having as much fun as their background singers

otm. the audio version had me hoping some of those background "ow"s came from Rotsam, but if he uses that mic, it's never when the camera is on him.

Rostam, I mean.

so apparently the lyric isn't

it always works for me
to call it tooth decay

whoops

lol

talk bout gettin' blasted (on meth)

So about this video for blurred lines that we're probably already bored of

I've been reading a lot of furious critique of said video but when I've been able to see what one of the dancers, the director etc say about it something becomes pretty obvious, which is that for the class of people who make music videos, it's all a laugh: sexism isn't a problem and they don't particularly intend to make a sexist video, they think sexism is kind of over.

I've been trying really hard to become outraged about the video - because if some people are, maybe there's something to that - but I simply can't occupy the headspace. And I think it's because of the intent. Which is to make something showy offy, mildly arousing, fun, etc; outrage doesn't seem like a response that works at all.

However, the sheer disparity between the social freedoms that people who get to be models and singers and music video makers, etc, have, and the lack of social freedoms lots of other people have, seems to be the appropriate conflict point.

Freedoms such as ...

– repercussion-free overt sexual display
- suited men and stripped women is just a game, not how their lives actually work
- talk of 'blurred lines' (about sexual consent!) is, again, just a naughty game, not something that actually gets used against them by people

It's not for me to say what people should be offended by but after several weeks I feel like I've read more than enough bandwagon-jumping outrage from people who haven't even paid attention to this song (ie assigning the "tear your ass" line to Thicke instead of TI, assuming that the video director is male) let alone considered where it fits in among other R&B lyrics and music videos. In the UK press at least it seems to have been established that Thicke is a moronic misogynist at best and a rape facilitator at worst.

yeah that's totally what's blowing up in the uk press right now

p1 robin thicke, is he still a crepe
p2 it's called george

i did lol at radio one news describing this song (in the context of reporting on an imam's statement on a paedophile ring) as 'a record some have called "rapey"', though, that was a moment of way too many discourses colliding

It always works for me / Dakota to Decatur

http://i44.tinypic.com/2iar7z6.png

ha, i tried that and got a dakota about halfway between decatur il and springfield il

Yeah I haven't seen anything in the uk printed press but across 'the blogs' etc

I don't know if I've blahed on about this issue before, but, the thing is, there's loads of misogyny and racism in the mainstream media still, but like with this song and a ton of other stuff the people making it don't intend that ... and are probably centre or slightly left of centre, not devoted misogynists or racists

I think it does people on the left no favours to enact the affect of 'outrage' about these media artefacts, because doing that misses what's actually going on - we live in a society with a wealth gap and things that are life-or-death problems for those on the poor side are just a toybox of funny signifiers to those on the wealthy side.

People's intentions don't absolve them but should affect how we respond as consumers

consumers / critics

I've been reading a lot of furious critique of said video but when I've been able to see what one of the dancers, the director etc say about it something becomes pretty obvious, which is that for the class of people who make music videos, it's all a laugh: sexism isn't a problem and they don't particularly intend to make a sexist video, they think sexism is kind of over.

― cardamon, Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:52 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that isn't what i got from this interview at all: http://www.complex.com/music/2013/07/blurred-lines-girl-emily-ratajkowski

i don't really have thoughts on blurred lines in any feminist moral sense or w/e, esp when every woman i know seems to enjoy it or at least dislike it for musical reasons but

Freedoms such as ...

– repercussion-free overt sexual display

come on, what, in what universe do female celebrities not suffer repercussions for this

I’m excited to be at Comic Con representing AXE and pushing the Black Chill product because [like the video], they're promoting that women are confident, and that Black Chill gives men the confidence that they need to be on the same level as women.

Shhhh shhhh

I've been trying really hard to become outraged about the video - because if some people are, maybe there's something to that

Whats driving your effort here? Should anyone have to try to be outraged over something? is the outrage you have to manufacture to align with whatever demographic comparator serves as the benchmark worth more or less than outrage you feel first and think about later?

I just meant I could see people getting worked up about it, but I didn't feel like that - whenever that happens I try to imagine myself into their position, because like, a lot of the time it has some value

@ somedude, what about:

the video is making fun of itself, and that’s what’s very crucial about it. You have naked women dancing around in the video. It sounds pretty bad, right? But when you look more into the attitudes of the women and how we’re making direct eye-contact [with the camera]—we’re ignoring these guys, we’re having fun.

come on, what, in what universe do female celebrities not suffer repercussions for (overt sexual display)

Hmmmmmm okay yeah: there's a whole discourse that simultaneously feeds on sexual display of female celebrities whilst also calling them sluts. Yeah.

But ... I dunno. Even that simultaneous slut-shaming and wanking off isn't as bad as what happens to people who are at the bottom of the pile, the poorest, surely?

how do you get "they think sexism is kind of over" from that, though? when the criticism of the video is brought, twice she says she thinks it's "really important for people to be watching out for those things."

brought UP

yeah but she doesn't think the video she's in is actually an example of those things: 'the video is making fun of itself, and that’s what’s very crucial about it. You have naked women dancing around in the video. It sounds pretty bad, right? But when you look more into the attitudes of the women and how we’re making direct eye-contact [with the camera]

Altho yeah, 'sexism is over' isn't something she's directly saying there.

For other examples cf. the ILX thread 'things marketed to men'.

So I finally saw the video and realized that I had this guy mixed up with Ruben Studdard.

lol

really wish this misunderstanding had been uncovered in a conversation that you could quote back to us

I've been reading a lot of furious critique of said video but when I've been able to see what one of the dancers, the director etc say about it something becomes pretty obvious, which is that for the class of people who make music videos, it's all a laugh: sexism isn't a problem and they don't particularly intend to make a sexist video, they think sexism is kind of over.

otm except for the crossed-out bit. i've said before that the video comes across as behind-the-scenes candid footage between takes on a skeevy fashion shoot (or music video!), and what it captures is relaxed camaraderie between co-workers. which isn't to say it's not a problematic or outright misogynistic video, i don't really want to defend it against those charges, but it's sort of like...how do you think the photoshoots and film sex scenes we see all the time are actually made, this is what happens! (also, as an aside, ime people who make a living from their bodies, whether athletes or models, tend to be pretty relaxed about nudity.)

the "robin thicke is everything wrong with rape culture" bandwagonning in the UK is just idiotic, especially given how those same people froth at the mouth over timberlake. also a reminder that people who don't habitually pay attention to pop songs should not fucking write about them.

I haven't read the whole thread so it might have been already said but the GQ interview settles this sexist/misogynist issue, doesn't it ?

http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2013/05/robin-thicke-interview-blurred-lines-music-video-collaborating-with-2-chainz-and-kendrick-lamar-mercy.html

it is definitely sexist and misogynist... but on purpose !

also a reminder that people who don't habitually pay attention to pop songs should not fucking write about them.

This is an important part of it you've just made me realise!

well yeah it's v self-aware in that it uses sexist and misogynistic imagery! but it's having-its-cake-and-wanting-to-eat-it, it's still kinda grim itself - though i think it captures exactly what they were going for, it doesn't feel forced. xp

In the past week I've read columns in the Observer and Independent about this, plus two harsh broadsheet album reviews which say the music's fine but Thicke is repellent. It's definitely migrated beyond blogs. Lex otm: "people who don't habitually pay attention to pop songs should not fucking write about them."

I think Diane Martel's defence of the video (her concept btw) is interesting:

I wanted to deal with the misogynist, funny lyrics in a way where the girls were going to overpower the men. Look at Emily Ratajkowski’s performance; it’s very, very funny and subtly ridiculing. That’s what is fresh to me. It also forces the men to feel playful and not at all like predators. I directed the girls to look into the camera, this is very intentional and they do it most of the time; they are in the power position. I don’t think the video is sexist. The lyrics are ridiculous, the guys are silly as fuck. That said, I respect women who are watching out for negative images in pop culture and who find the nudity offensive, but I find [the video] meta and playful... I wanted to have beautiful bodies and crazy, fucked-up sets. I thought about cheap props, crappy fun stuff. The video is goofy and innocent. I was channeling Benny Hill and 1960s variety shows.

That's exactly what I get from it. After hundreds of videos in which women really are just treated as ass-shaking eye candy, it's crazy that one in which the women have wit, charisma and agency, and make the men look foolish, has become the lightning rod. I can't imagine how little you'd need to know about music videos, and how tone-deaf to humour you'd have to be, to think that this is a new benchmark in misogyny.

Also interesting from Martel: "I wanted to do a nude video and turned the job down when they said we couldn’t. They came back agreeing to do the nude one if I would do a clothed version."

Given all that, I'm not sure Thicke's GQ comments should be taken at face value. They read as a really clumsy stab at sarcasm to me.

And lex I think a lot of that bandwagonning stems from people trying to talk about structural oppression without going all the way to registering how structural oppression actually works, i.e. a lot of the people on said bandwagon still assume that the intention is the same as the impact.

Plus, you know, I don't know how you'd find empirical verification for Thicke's video being in circulation increasing the amount of sexual assaults

cardamon: this brings to mind something nabisco wrote about the taylor swift warz of a few years back:

http://agrammar.tumblr.com/post/1054409177/another-overview-of-recent-taylor-swift-debate

Well: read Jonathan’s post and then Sady’s post. You’ll see this distinction precisely. Jonathan talks about the detail of Swift’s content, the things the songs mean if you actually care about them and hear them in the context of caring about Swift’s music. Sady talks about Swift as a cultural phenomenon and a business concern, talking about her wardrobe, her look, the plots of her videos, her choice of movie roles, the air of wholesome-idealized-sweet-loyal-princess that’s developed around her. Neither of these is necessarily a “better" thing to talk about, or the “wrong" thing to talk about! But they’re obviously incredibly different things, and it’s hard not to point out that one of them consists of things Taylor Swift actually does (like writing lyrics and singing songs) and the other consists in large part of other people’s decisions and perceptions. A lot of the most pointed criticisms of Swift go out of their way to ignore Swift’s own voice, which is a little weird.

And what always makes me see this as a turf war is some kind of tension in there between people who talk about culture and people who care a little more intensely about the music world in particular.

It's probably better and certainly no worse than your average terry richardson photo shoot. I would say this video is less sexist than many bc one of the dancers - emily ratajkowsi - basically steals the show by being goofy and charismatic and doesnt seem like an anonymous naked prop.

why does everyone keep saying that they're naked? aren't they just topless?

i agree with diane martel and i think she achieved what she was going for BUT i do still think the video - esp the naked one - only "plays with" sexist tropes rather than subverting them. i guess she wasn't going for that, but it just means it remains stuck on sexist, ultimately.

also the other thing martel discusses, the "i was going for video hits", is prob even more important (and the greater indictment on sexist grounds - though not of the video specifically, but the wider culture).

In the past week I've read columns in the Observer and Independent about this, plus two harsh broadsheet album reviews which say the music's fine but Thicke is repellent.

i've read a few saying the sentiments in his lyrics are repellent as well, obviously written by people who are a) unfamiliar with thicke's previous b) unfamiliar with male loverman r&b c) projecting what they see in the video on to him

no surprise that the main non-blog outrage is from the UK, where thicke was basically a complete unknown til this year - no cachet of cool to fall back on à la JT, he's worked within a field that got zero play over here etc

Going back a few weeks:

Was it Pharrell that described the song as self-parody, just two old married dudes lost in their fantasies yelling like idiots at girls from their porch?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, July 5, 2013 11:33 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's another thing that has always struck me as funny about this, Thicke and T.I. are probably two of the most outwardly devoted husbands in pop music right now

― some dude, Friday, July 5, 2013 3:36 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, see, my issue with all the "this is the artist's intention!" stuff is that context _matters_. not to be all death-of-the-author, and I go back and forth on this myself with different artists (so does pretty much everyone) but the fact is 99% of people watching this video give zero shits about whether they are subverting or playing with or deconstructing tits or whatever, they care about the tits. and of course it's a "video hits" thing because they are banking on people caring about the tits.

what always strikes me: diane martel names one of the models, which is striking because literally no one else does anywhere.

on preview: it's always a fallacy to use the "they're outwardly devoted husbands!" defense because even outside celebrity culture you never know that. hell, to take the obvious example, people admired the fuck out of anthony weiner's devoted marriage

yeah as i said i don't want to defend the video b/c ultimately it is pretty gross and sleazy BUT i just think it's more interesting than just an outrage-baiter AND projecting all of that on to thicke's lyrics is just incredibly dumb. calling "blurred lines" the song rapey is entirely about mishearing the lyrics!!!

Also:

- topless
- rough, bare-white-walls background + production
– being playful
– coherence between the elements of the video

vs

– not naked, but very revealingly dressed
– glossy, quite possibly teal and orange production, on an extensive stage set
– being very serious indeed
- a striking disconnect between the singer recounting a heartfelt ballad of romantic woe, while the camera itself just pervs on them

There are a lot of videos for female pop singers like the latter.

but the fact is 99% of people watching this video give zero shits about whether they are subverting or playing with or deconstructing tits or whatever, they care about the tits. and of course it's a "video hits" thing because they are banking on people caring about the tits.

Hmm dunno how can we be sure about this if we can't be sure about dude's devoted marriage

yeah as i said i don't want to defend the video b/c ultimately it is pretty gross and sleazy BUT i just think it's more interesting than just an outrage-baiter AND projecting all of that on to thicke's lyrics is just incredibly dumb. calling "blurred lines" the song rapey is entirely about mishearing the lyrics!!!

― lex pretend, Friday, July 26, 2013 9:42 AM (53 seconds ago)

this

xp I don't think you need to know anything about the director's intent to clock the humour and silliness in that video. It's in the props, the editing, the expressions, everything. You may still find it icky or problematic but the intent is obvious, at least to me.

yeah, see, my issue with all the "this is the artist's intention!" stuff is that context _matters_. not to be all death-of-the-author, and I go back and forth on this myself with different artists (so does pretty much everyone) but the fact is 99% of people watching this video give zero shits about whether they are subverting or playing with or deconstructing tits or whatever, they care about the tits. and of course it's a "video hits" thing because they are banking on people caring about the tits.

otm. Everyone knows how I feel about intentions; this is the kind of song and video that makes me more obstinate than ever.

but all the things martel talks about are in the video, which gives off a very different vibe to your usual ogling-dancer's-ass unashamed soft porn style video

xp But Alfred, does it make you outraged?

It makes me roll my damn eyes whenever a friend calls the song sexy or whatever

sexy? it really seems like a goofy dance song people play at weddings and work functions where people get too drunk -- i was surprised when i heard it. someone drove past my domicile the other day blasting it and i actually laughed. it's one of the least sexy songs i have ever heard.

ok maybe not least but does not even register on the scale.

So we're talking about the breasts, what about the other element, the suits?

Video contains a core of 'guys in suits going after the ladeeez', which yeah, wd tend to get an eye-roll reaction from me, whether it's in a song, film, tv show, or 'real life', but: this is always modified by % of desperation and % of lightheartedness involved in suits going after ladeeez.

I'm not sure where I'd 'place' the suits in this video.

haha "playing with or deconstructing tits"

In principle it's possible to have guys in suits trying their luck with the ladies and this be great good time fun, where there's only a trace element of desperation left and where both suits and ladies are having a good time

on that tip i'm still waiting for someone with the video skills to do a golden girls montage set to this song

sorry, that was a looong xpost to La Lechera

it sounds like a sitcom theme song!

have people mentioned that it looks like the opening to the cosby show? that's what it reminded me of at first.

there are 2 youtube mashups posted upthread

oh ok
sorry! this thread title made me laugh and that's why i initially clicked on it. then i realized that i had never heard the song, so i looked up the video. i'm not trying to be thick(e) -- just wondered if that was resonating since i am never ever going to read a single essay/multi-para blog post about this song. i did know who robin thicke is, that was about it.

since i watched the video, i've heard the song a bunch of times (guess i was just changing the station before) and i think i was under the impression before that it was maroon 5. overall, not to my liking. i mean, people are getting really worked up about this and i think it's kind of a waste of energy, but whatever floats your boat, right?

i think the song is kind of boring. at first i thought the video was fun but now i am scared off of defending it too enthusiastically.

Robin Thicke definitely floats my boat, but only in the sense that if it were sinking, he'd be the first fucker I'd throw over the side.

i think the song is kind of boring. at first i thought the video was fun but now i am scared off of defending it too enthusiastically.

What do you fear would happen?

Apart from people thinking you'd been enjoying the video physically.

i'll never get the chance to write cultural thinkpieces for npr

haha

idk, i don't want to discredit other peoples' opinions, especially women, who might find it offensive. but i don't think the power differential between the men and women in that video is played up in an especially gross way and while it is too far to say that the video is "subversive" on the level of the culture, on the level of the video itself i do think it undermines the lyrics and the women (esp. emily ratajkowski) are given way more agency in their performances than critics are recognizing.

see, "rough, bare-white-walls background + production" just signifies terry richardson / dov charney perving to me, not playfulness. (the "but-but-but it's PLAYFUL!" defense is one of my least favorites ever.)

it's definitely a take on the terry richardson aesthetic... the idea of the pervy photoshoot seeming candid and fun (which we know with terry specifically, isn't true because models have said they were uncomfortable working with him). but that is everywhere and i guess my issue i don't know what distinguishes this video from any aspect of pop culture that involves models acting and looking sexy.

i think people are saying it is the power differential between the men and women -- how the women are the pliant recipients of the men's advances. but that isn't true in the video.

you could attack the entire edifice of this sort of imagery and you would be right, but i don't think that is what most of the thinkpieces about this video have been doing. the npr one, specifically, suggested that this video represented something new and i don't think that's true at all.

katharine i agree with that. i.e. "it's meta". no. actually it's not, really. i think tom ewing once started a thread called "just a bit of fun" where the question was, has this phrase ever been used to describe something with any redeeming qualities at all and if memory serves the ilx hivemind searched in vain for an answer.

see, "rough, bare-white-walls background + production" just signifies terry richardson / dov charney perving to me, not playfulness

isn't it absolutely meant to do this? i mean, i totally think it's having its cake and eating it, but i don't think it's just your rote terry richardsonisms either

katherine and Tracer, are you saying (a) you don't think the video is playful and that's just a bullshit post facto defence or (b) you think it is playful but that doesn't make any difference?

"Playful" is objective when talking about intent but very, very subjective when talking about aesthetic or reception. If everyone involved was being playful, that's cool, but it sure doesn't <i>feel</i> playful to me watching, and it gets very, very tiresome to be told what I should find playful. Basically it's the equivalent of the "you're just a humorless feminist" defense.

As I said upthread I'm certainly not saying what anyone should feel about the video. I'm interested in the variety of responses.

"playful" i think is a point of minor relevance. the (female) director and emily ratajkowski are on record saying they actively sought to invert gendered power roles, and while i think you've got the right to feel uneasy with whatever you'd like, i think the tone of the video supports their purported aims

if someone really wanted to make "Blurred Lines" come across sinister they'd make an Ariel Castro-themed video parody

i mean, at root the video's detractors are right: the "playfulness" etc manifests only in details - important details, yes, but not as important as the power dynamic in CLOTHED v UNCLOTHED. truly inverted power roles would have had the dancers/models in suits and the performers naked.

it's just that..you know, the percentage of music videos i watch where i feel a twinge of "why is the camera ogling a female body" is maybe 75%? probably more? and i don't think "blurred lines" is a new nadir because while, ultimately, diane martel doesn't actually follow her purported aims through, she does take steps towards them that mean it isn't just a generically leering video.

and yeah you could say, well, the answer is to take issue with ALL those videos, not to give thicke/martel a pass - but the issue there is to condemn the culture, not these relatively small cogs in the wheel that are music videos.

Exactly. It feels like there's a long-running frustration that's burst its banks here, which is understandable and which is why I'm confused that so many critiques I've read don't mention any other context at all and behave as if this is some freakishly egregious example when the whole point is that it's playing with what pop videos and fashion shoots have been doing for years.

something similar happened when Nelly made "Tip Drill" -- didn't really go farther than a lot of other BET Uncut videos of the era, but because it was Nelly there was a bit more visibility and outrage about it.

yeah and treating this as an aberration does nothing at all to counter the wider culture! which i totally think should be countered rather than accepted

And I'm really thinking about the media outrage bandwagon here, not individual reponses itt.

it's not an aberration at all; you just don't comment on every instance of camera leering in every video because my god where does it end. (plus, it leaves you wide open to the "you're reading too much into this" defense, which is hard to rebut even when you're clearly right. blurred lines just catches a lot of it because A) it's a lot more overt, visually and otherwise; B) it's the #1 song in the country, thing is HUGE, and C) at this point it is basically a debate about a debate about a debate.

FWIW I don't find the lyrics offensive at all.

to some extent you could easily argue that allowing a degree of 'playful' power is a higher strata of dominance - illusory sensitivity to flaunt savvy dominion over the emotional as well as the physical. like keeping a wild animal in a vast expensive private reserve versus in a small grimy cage, but it's still captivity

ie robert palmer 2.0 basically

^^^ this is totally the vibe I got from the Doctor Dre commercial, only with winking and smiles instead of severity

haven't seen the actual video yet, probably will at some point and will be filled with Opinions everyone's already hashed out

oh rtc otm there, yes, actually

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nMYUdu0gFiU/ToTr86SJk7I/AAAAAAAAAhk/MXQzV1k7uDI/s320/robertpalmer.jpg

i don't really understand these discussions... why some things become contentious and others don't. in another thread i got a lot of pushback and very little support for criticizing overtly misogynistic pornography and i think our culture is rife with like, overt, hateful sexism, especially in the world of gossip columns where (celebrity) female bodies are basically policed. the women in this video, in contrast, seem to be depicted as human beings even though their actions and dress are designed to be arousing (to men).

i'm not criticizing you katherine, i guess i am just saying that i literally don't understand why this video, particularly, is a problem in a culture obsessed with controlling women's appearances and behavior.

maybe it is the subtlety, the pretense toward playfulness, that makes this video so sinister as it is reproducing the same attitudes that show up in uglier ways elsewhere in pop culture. idk

because...it is a product of a culture obsessed with controlling women's appearances and behavior?

it's also the #1 song

speak of the alfred devil - shouldnt a bryan ferry stan really be fairly well-equipped to shine a more nuanced light on this

bryan ferry is a good reference point for this video

Ferry's obsession with distance extends to his videos though. The women in his video are accessories – pretty things around which he develops an atmosphere of elegance.

Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ECpQFx2ALg

btw there isn't a single sexy thing about Ferry or his music, which is not to say his hair isn't often magical.

palmer is a far better point of ref than ferry itt but i just thought i'd take the opportunity

(really tho thicke is such a dweeb in comparison to either it's absurd but if people will be so naive)

i once knew a girl that yearned to be a ferry accessory... hottest cretin i ever met

I agree with all that, although Palmer in his videos is even more of a still point in a whirling world than Ferry.

tbh I'm even starting to feel guilty for palmer now... maybe a downgrade to simon le bon is in order

it isn't even sinister! nor is it horribly offensive. nor is it next-level or incisive dismantling of the patriarchy or even particularly fun. it's just... tiresome.

It's the comedy mask to the "Wicked Game" tragedy mask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D3Nl1GZzuw

btw there isn't a single sexy thing about Ferry or his music

my mother-in-law disagrees

he's got a lady gaga slightly off simulacrum of sexiness/seductiveness thing going on. i think lady gaga is sexy though.

in like an unconventional way. more like in terms of charisma.

talking of sexiness, the fact that JT gets a pass where thicke gets raked over the coals may well be down to, even now, JT being very sexy indeed, while RT really isn't

what the fuck is with everybody talking about sexiness like it's an objective standard?

nah I think it's simpler: "tunnel vision" wasn't a hit. the HWFO didn't really start to coalesce around thicke until "blurred lines" accumulated a critical mass of staying power

also "the fact that JT gets a pass where thicke gets raked over the coals" may actually be down to thicke's naked lady video is #1 around the world while nobody gives a rat's ass about JTs.

lol xpost!

"#1 song in the country" means basically nothing these days, remember. like except insofar as it gives something that the cultural commentariat can grab onto.

having the #1 song means people have actually heard your crappy song and seen your crappy video

its not quite in "#1 selling auto-reversing cassette walkman in 1998" but...

that's pretty disingenuous. people really love to flog the 'monoculture is dead' line, but i mean it will probably end up being the 1st or 2nd most purchased/played song of 2013. maybe that means less than it did in 2003 or 1993, but "nothing"? xp

it kind of does though, especially now that the qualifications are either blanketed airplay + mass sales or enough youtube meme shit that it's a phenomenon anyway.

like, there's no functional difference between #1 and #2 but there sure as hell is between #1 and not even on the Hot 100 (which "Tunnel Vision" isn't)

"pop music doesn't work the way it used to, it's all about the internet now" ::posts the same argument about the #1 song on iTunes and Spotify to a message board thread, twitter timeline and blog comments box that are all furiously discussing said song::

if we're talking about the difference between a #1 song and a #2, yeah, that's always been kind of illusory. but we're talking about "Blurred Lines" vs. "Tunnel Vision," not "Mirrors"

yep, justin timberlake is culturally less relevant than robin thicke because of a list. ya got me!

(i have no stake in this argument, btw, sorry, just stopping by to cause trouble)

I was about to spout some total bullshit about self-perpetuating, non-intersecting scenes that act as concurrently-running micromonocultures but I haven't even seen this video yet, let alone done any type of sociological research on how people are consuming media in 2013, so if someone who wouldn't be talking entirely out of their ass wants to pick up that thread and run with it, here it is.

there is an actual argument, tho, that the reason ppl are talking about Blurred Lines more than Tunnel Whatever is actually sort of related to why one is at the top of the billboard who-cares and the other is not.

DJP you should watch the video, you're missing out on an Important Conversation. (watch the miley video too, i'll enjoy your response!)

we're not talking about artist profiles -- obviously JT is one of the biggest stars in the world, but that doesn't mean every single recent song of his is necessarily more popular than the biggest Thicke or Macklemore or Bruno Mars etc. song. "Tunnel Vision" basically got sandbagged when he released a far more accessible single less than a month later.

"there is an actual argument, tho, that the reason ppl are talking about Blurred Lines more than Tunnel Whatever is actually sort of related to why one is at the top of the billboard who-cares and the other is not."

this is exactly backward. thinkpieces, given that comparatively few people, read them don't send songs to the top of the charts (if they did Odd Future and Lana Del Rey would have more #1s combined than Rihanna.) but when a song gets to the top of the charts, thinkpieces follow. I mean, shit, do you have any sense of proportion?

i also would expect JT to get a little more shit if and when "Take Back The Night" gets big. I'm hoping he'll do a "Diamonds From Sierra Leone" style remix about his newfound enlightenment.

"Take Back the Night" at #39 while "Tunnel Vision" is condemned to "bubble under" the Hot 100.

i also would expect JT to get a little more shit if and when "Take Back The Night" gets big. I'm hoping he'll do a "Diamonds From Sierra Leone" style remix about his newfound enlightenment.

― da croupier, Friday, July 26, 2013 1:53 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol yes this would be either admirable or hilarious, either way needs to happen

this is exactly backward. thinkpieces, given that comparatively few people, read them don't send songs to the top of the charts (if they did Odd Future and Lana Del Rey would have more #1s combined than Rihanna.) but when a song gets to the top of the charts, thinkpieces follow. I mean, shit, do you have any sense of proportion?

― katherine, Friday, July 26, 2013 1:52 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what i'm arguing is that the same qualities that make blurred lines good for thinkpieces are those that make it intriguing to audiences, not that thinkpieces -> audiences.

blurred lines _is_ interesting, and that's why its possible to have a discussion about it. and the reasons it is interesting also have to do with why it grabs people who are not writing thinkpieces. and those reasons obv can't just be "boobs" otherwise the JT single would be doing better, and other things too.

I dunno. We've had discussions about terrible songs too. Terrible songs also inspire think pieces.

terrible songs also sometimes chart really high!

"think piece" in this context sounds like something Thicke asks his models to slip out of.

also i am not suggesting this is an always/everywhere thing, just something going on in this particular case.

confirmation bias. Maroon 5's "One More Night" was No. 1 all fall in 2012 and it is resolutely un-thinkpiecable. it is boring and solid, and "boring and solid" charts highly all the time.

from what I can deconstruct of this billboard article (the headline is v. misleading): the banned-video tack convinced thicke's label to actually attempt a radio promotion, and then your standard TV appearances and sponsorship tie-ins juiced the sales. pretty conventional when you get down to it.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/1565535/robin-thickes-blurred-lines-surges-on-charts-thanks-to-a-nsfw

yeah, "One More Night" is great counterexample. one of those songs that seems to barely exist outside of the Top 40 radio bubble. and it kept "Gangnam Style" from #1!

the "Blurred" song/video were released simultaneously, and were kind of a lightning rod for internet chatter right off the bat, a couple months before it took off on the charts, so it's hard to separate the chatter from the airplay. we wouldn't STILL be talking about it 6 months later if it hadn't been deemed catchy by the wider public, though.

timberlake actually has a song called 'take back the night'???

also re WHAT DOES A NUMBER ONE EVEN MEAN, blurred lines has sold more than a million copies in the uk, it is Culturally Visible and so forth

Its no Thriller though

Also this is apparently about to beat some airplay record Mariah's 'We Belong Together' currently holds for audience impressions or something.

that makes me sad

I just watched the video and really all I can say is "lol"

followed it up with that Miley Cyrus video and came to this conclusion: "lol"

I'm dreading the day that my son and his youtube-adept buddies discover the video.

feel like the miley cyrus vid would be more controversial if the song was any good.

lol otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKfwCjgiodg

this should've made the album

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0XuRd2lX4ZM

Yeah that's nice.

the Cataracs did that one, as well as the other deluxe bonus track, they make a good combination with Thicke i think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-GTHXZbp4c

deluxe trax are really great!

Inevitable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZjaqHioro#at=28

lol at thicke's "what rhymes with hug me? rugby!"

doing the rounds:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/524352_10151725760984731_696341720_n.jpg

this dude has never listened to an r&b album before, right?

^^ my response to basically half of the general responses to "Blurred Lines"

sick Germaine Greer burn there

lol that reviewer is an idiot

Could barely read it, most of the lines are blurred.

I like the idea of a "rhyme scene". Sounds like a place where old people go to rap.

it's where you go to get help figuring out what rhymes with "hug me"

this dude has never listened to an r&b album before, right?

Well, he's certainly listened to at least one specific R&B song.

he's like 19, right

Ha, that review. Like him or hate him, slicke or dicke, it's a bit rich to say the guy is still riding on his dad's coattails in 2013. I think I just heard an ad for discount insurance on the radio yesterday morning voiced by Alan.

Just when I thought supplies of ignorant bandwagon-jumping bullshit critiques of Blurred Lines might be running low.