50 Best Albums of All Time According to Rolling Stone's BRAND NEW, 100% Revamped Top 500

Link:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-albums-of-all-time-1062063/

kind of blue too low

great new no. 1 though

No Pink Floyd in the top 50 is just criminal imo.

astral weeks got crowded out of the top 50 which is just too much imo

Last-minute decision to punish Van's covidiocy iirc.

think i'm gonna vote for voodoo, which is prob the most daring and correct new addition here

What a crock of shit this is. Complete with the obligatory jazz album — Kind of Blue of course. What's Going On isn't even the best Marvin Gaye album.

pvmic

the best marvin gaye album is i want you but that's not the point of a list like this. what's going on has an aura bigger than the music contained on it (and that music itself has a pretty massive aura, it's one of the most dense and colorful listening experiences around)

kind of blue is perfect, it should always be on a list like this, i don't particular care that it's the token jazz record, god knows it earned it

Always interested to see how recent albums get integrated into the canon.

Here are the 2010s albums in the top 500 (could be an interesting poll on its own):

491. Harry Styles, 'Fine Line' (2019)
484. Lady Gaga, 'Born This Way' (2011)
480. Miranda Lambert, 'Weight of These Wings' (2016)
472. SZA, 'Ctrl' (2017)
460. Lorde, 'Melodrama' (2017)
459. Kid Cudi, 'Man on the Moon: The End of the Day' (2019)
458. Jason Isbell, 'Southeastern' (2013)
447. Bad Bunny, 'X 100pre' (2018)
442. The Weeknd, 'Beauty Behind the Madness' (2015)
419. Eric Church, 'Chief' (2011)
397. Billie Eilish, 'When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?' (2019)
395. D’Angelo and the Vanguard, 'Black Messiah' (2014)
393. Taylor Swift, '1989' (2014)
382. Tame Impala, 'Currents' (2015)
367. Drake, 'If You're Reading This It's Too Late' (2015)
346. Arctic Monkeys, 'AM' (2013)
328. Vampire Weekend, 'Modern Vampires of the City' (2013)
321. Lana Del Rey, 'Norman Fucking Rockwell!’ (2019)
315. Rosalía, 'El Mal Querer' (2018)
312. Solange, 'A Seat at the Table' (2016)
295. Daft Punk, 'Random Access Memories' (2013)
270. Kacey Musgraves, 'Golden Hour' (2018)
269. Kanye West, 'Yeezus' (2013)
230. Rihanna, 'Anti' (2016)
213. Fiona Apple, 'The Idler Wheel' (2013)
196. Robyn, 'Body Talk' (2010)
175. Kendrick Lamar, 'DAMN.' (2017)
148. Frank Ocean, 'Channel Orange' (2012)
137. Adele, '21' (2011)
115. Kendrick Lamar, 'good kid, m.A.A.d city' (2012)
99. Taylor Swift, 'Red' (2012)
95. Drake, 'Take Care' (2011)
81. Beyoncé, 'Beyoncé' (2013)
79. Frank Ocean, 'Blonde' (2016)
32. Beyoncé, 'Lemonade' (2016)
19. Kendrick Lamar, 'To Pimp a Butterfly' (2015)
17. Kanye West, 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy' (2010)

lol at putting a greatest hits album in yr top 50

Ranking Voodoo that high and Black Messiah that low is just o_O (full disclosure: I love both, but prefer the latter).

feeling like maybe in 20 years anti will be in the top 50

voting for kanye

in the presidential election, not this poll

xxp RS pointed out that The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill jumped from #312 (on the 2003 list) to #10.

Is there a way to view the whole list on one page?

kind of blue is perfect, it should always be on a list like this, i don't particular care that it's the token jazz record, god knows it earned it

This is exactly why I hate seeing it on these lists, again and again. It's so predictable and yes, a token choice. This is Rolling Stone. Just be honest and make a list of pop and rock, and don't pretend you also listen to jazz because you have Kind of Blue or Time Out in your collection. Kind of Blue is great, but it wouldn't even make my Top 30 of greatest jazz albums. Bitches Brew had a much bigger impact on rock and funk, anyway.

Honestly, this is about as OTM a top 10 as I've ever seen from them, given all the forces at work.

Even tho it should be Innervisions at #4 instead of SitKoL.

Confessions from a listoholic ... the amount of pleasure this re-ranking gives me matching up with how fulfilled the 2012 version of the Sight and Sound list of top movies did kind of confirms to me that I've reached the peak age where those controlling the canon are in line with my own tastes, and it's probably only downhill from here.

xpost Feel like if it was actually called SitKoL we would have entered a soul/prog new age decades ago.

If we stick to the top 10, I don't care for nos. 2-4 at all. So far, the RYM list best matches my own preferences by a significant margin.

I'm guessing Sheffield threatened to quit if they didn't put a Harry Styles record in the top 500.

I did my best to diversify the proceedings.

My pick Gaye was In Our Lifetime fwiw

I've reached the peak age where those controlling the canon are in line with my own tastes, and it's probably only downhill from here

*new list is released in twenty years' time*

"What the--?"

"Well after the combination of the virus that took out the algorithms and the actual virus that took out the programmers of the algorithms the only song anyone could remember was "Old Town Road.""

No Chuck Berry or James Brown in the Top 50. But Kanye's at #17.

This is Rolling Stone. Just be honest and make a list of pop and rock, and don't pretend you also listen to jazz because you have Kind of Blue or Time Out in your collection. Kind of Blue is great, but it wouldn't even make my Top 30 of greatest jazz albums. Bitches Brew had a much bigger impact on rock and funk, anyway.

Fuck this actual list, but to be fair, RS currently has Hank Shteamer on staff and he might be the most jazz-knowledgeable editor they've ever had. He knows his shit, for real. I agree that RS-the-institution is not a jazz-friendly zone by any measurement, but he's done a lot to change that since he's been there. I mean, they interviewed Anthony Braxton last year!

jazzbotm

also pet sounds is fine but enough already

I Want You > In Our Lifetime > What's Going On > Here My Dear > Let's Get It On

I rolled my eyes at seeing What's Going On in the top ten, let alone first place, groaned when I saw Ziggy Stardust as highest-ranking Bowie (what, is this STILL 1987?); but the shock was Lauryn Hill. The euphoria waned quickly after 1999, deservedly.

I rolled my eyes at seeing What's Going On in the top ten

???? why

also pet sounds is fine but enough already

The distressingly cloying melody lobby has yet to be dismantled.

Kind of Blue is great, but it wouldn't even make my Top 30 of greatest jazz albums

see this kind of holier-than-thou taste calculus is my least favorite part of digesting lists like these. kind of blue, a perfect record, wouldn't make your top 30 greatest jazz albums? damn u r an original

Brad otm. I wouldn't omit Beethoven's 9th from a top 30 classical compositions of all time list just for the hepcat cred.

Oooooooh, Sgt. Pepper took a drubbing!

my biggest o_O is amy winehouse slotting in ahead of all the albums she ripped off was inspired by

it’s rolling stone, that the beatles don’t even appear until no. 5 is genuinely incredibly to me

incredible*

???? why

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson),

Not my favorite Gaye by any stretch, and it's made every one of their lists.

I don't know why but there's something about this 'aging boomer Googles info on acclaimed albums from the last three decades of popular music and hastily inserts new entries he probably hasn't actually listened to in their entirety/at all' list that's more depressing than the original.

There is no rational reason for that Kanye album scoring above every single Kendrick album. Even at its release, half of it was a mess.

(shouts to nephew in the other room) 'Hey Skyler, do the kids still like that Eminem album?'

It's a sign of RS's p4k-ification.

xp

groaned when I saw Ziggy Stardust as highest-ranking Bowie (what, is this STILL 1987?); but the shock was Lauryn Hill. The euphoria waned quickly after 1999, deservedly.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 11:44 AM (three minutes ago)

Yeah, Miseducation as the best hip-hop album of all time is p bizarre. I like Ziggy and think it's slid into being underrated at this point (at least on ILM), but it is weird to see the artifacts of canons past still clinging on, especially, for me, Legend.

Also Graceland but nothing from the entire continent of Africa (or Brazil, or etc.) is ew gross, though I didn't bother looking at the full list

see this kind of holier-than-thou taste calculus is my least favorite part of digesting lists like these. kind of blue, a perfect record, wouldn't make your top 30 greatest jazz albums? damn u r an original

I'm holier than thou because I happen to love and listen to a lot of jazz? Does the same apply for anyone who loves and listens to a lot of rock/pop, and perhaps doesn't think Sgt. Pepper is one of the top 30 albums? Kind of Blue is maybe fifth or sixth on my list of favorite Miles Davis albums. He released many brilliant albums including Jack Johnson, Bitches Brew, In a Silent Way, Sketches of Spain, Porgy and Bess, Miles Ahead, Cookin', Relaxin; and many more. KoB became a big hit partly because it was so easy to listen to, and it sounded cool in the background. Some of his other major works are more challenging and rewarding, I think.

It's a sign of RS's p4k-ification.

xp

― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 11:59 AM (one minute ago)

eh, isn't it more that the fundamentally rockist trope of the singular, often troubled artist-genius is crucial to what RS is? see also Lauryn Hill for that matter

porquenolosdos.gif

voted Songs In The Key Of Life today cuz I have really been feeling that one lately

In case anyone wasn’t clear, my “confession” above was meant to be taken as evidence that this list is probably bad. But so we’re all the previous versions I’m sure.

this is the best bad version yet imo

Also Graceland but nothing from the entire continent of Africa (or Brazil, or etc.) is ew gross, though I didn't bother looking at the full list

― rob, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 12:00 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

The Indestructible Beat Of Soweto is #497. Apparently, some clerical or technical error swapped its and Graceland's rankings.

Quite obviously yes.

xp to brad

lol at putting a greatest hits album in yr top 50

― mookieproof, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 10:23 AM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

'legend' is a lolworthy inclusion, indeed, but the original top 50 had chuck berry's the great twenty-eight and compilations from muddy waters and robert johnson

at the very least it's made me think harder than previous iterations of the list. literally any no. 1 is better than sgt. pepper's; they picked the right one imo, as what's going on is, among other things, the deeper psychedelic experience

It's the zeitgeistiest and least rockist one so far, which is bound to please the ILM hivemind.

xp
ok lol that is impressively insulting

I am devastated my efforts at guaranteeing a top ten placement for Hearsay were a splendid failure.

imo kind of blue is both easy to listen to and profoundly rewarding, it sounds new every time i've played it even though i also have it memorized; every musician is so totally in tune with each other and the performances are so beautifully captured that it makes you imagine the room they're playing together in, except it doesn't look like a room in one's imagination, just this otherworldly atmosphere of smoke and dark that each soloist wavers in and out of. it can be background music sure! but if you study it there's so much going on. it also captures an evolutionary instep in both miles' music and jazz music in general that there aren't a lot of other examples of!

it's so special that a list without it is more suspect than a list that includes it

Old guard doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on in that the Beatles still have 10% of the top 50 locked down.

Why no Floyd tho. Why.

I don't know why but there's something about this 'aging boomer Googles info on acclaimed albums from the last three decades of popular music and hastily inserts new entries he probably hasn't actually listened to in their entirety/at all' list that's more depressing than the original.

^Old Lunch OTM

I don't think my dad has ever willingly listened to rap, but there is a "son, have you heard of [artist]? they were on NPR" quality to some picks. He raved about Winehouse after seeing the documentary

i'm guessing that has more to do with the demographics of the current rs staff + whichever freelancers they reached out to than any sort of calculation xp

i for one completely forgot i submitted a list for this, wonder what was on it

Murmur rose from #197 to #165; AFT leapfrogged it, rising from #249 to #96; and Document fell off altogether. Not sure if this is a net gain or loss for "America's Best Rock and Roll Band."

Certainly an improvement over the last one!

The Good:
- Abbey Road supplanting Sgt Peppers, and 3 Beatles albums falling out of the top 10
- Prince and Stevie in the top 10, Aretha and Public Enemy in the top 20
- General integration of rap
- General demotion of Classic Rock canon
- Demotion of: U2 (previously 26), The Who (28), and The Eagles (37)

The Bad:
- Complete (?) absence of country and electronic
- Two Radiohead albums in the top 50 (and I'm a fan)
- Lauryn Hill at 10 ALL TIME is a headscratcher; if I had a prediction, Lemonade will eventually be viewed in a similar light for some reason (and I'm a fan)
- No: Coltrane, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Led Zeppelin, CCR, Ray Charles

nm i found my ballot, it's basically this: my favorite albums of all time: a poll

lol same

ooh I hadn't clocked no Zeppelin, that is weird!

Or Sabbath, although that's less surprising seeing as there wasn't any in their previous top 50 either.

In honesty, I recognize that it's less the result of the 'aging boomer' scenario I painted upthread than it is watching the younger set's notion of today's acclaimed music start to calcify in a bland, boomer-esque fashion. Like if I, who've been largely out of the new music loop for a decade+, recognize all of the newer entries they've plugged in, then they're playing it pretty effing safe.

if we were voting for the album that does not belong here it's amy winehouse obviously

like i get it, she's dead and had a cool aesthetic or whatever

xxp I didn't take your 'aging boomer' scenario literally - you were OTM that it has that 'feel' (don't 2nd-guess yrself!!)

Are there big Tapestry stans on ilm? I'm not sure I've ever heard the whole thing, but it seems unfashionable to me in a less explicable way than, say, Legend

Jazz fell out of the mainstream precisely because the scene started to value challenging and rewarding over pleasant to listen to. Most humans prefer the latter.

Never mind, there are two Dylan albums in the top 20. I hate this list.

In general there seems to have been a conscious effort to represent women - which is good! - that closely follows the NPR rankings from a year or two ago:

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/20/538307314/turning-the-tables-150-greatest-albums-made-by-women-page-15

not enough Janet Jackson fans in the world, I guess

Tapestry falls nicely enough in line with the yacht rock revivalism juice.

Nice to see 'Anti'.

Anywhere this full list can be read without scrolling that wretched website?

Brad otm. I wouldn't omit Beethoven's 9th from a top 30 classical compositions of all time list just for the hepcat cred.

If you truly listen to a lot of classical music, then I can't argue with this (although the 9th wouldn't be in my personal Top 30). My point is that lots of people who like Kind of Blue — maybe even own it — unfortunately don't listen to much else when it comes to jazz. It's like me saying A Lament for Epirus is one of the Top 30 Greek folk albums, when in fact it may be the only one I own.

I just went through the whole 500 and there are four metal bands represented: three Black Sabbath albums, two Metallica albums, and one each by Motörhead, and Van Halen. I mean, Slayer's Reign In Blood isn't more worthy of note than a King Sunny Ade compilation? (N.B.: I love King Sunny Ade.)

Anti's legacy feels pretty destined to continue expanding

Anywhere this full list can be read without scrolling that wretched website?

it's not Vice

My point is that lots of people who like Kind of Blue — maybe even own it — unfortunately don't listen to much else when it comes to jazz.

Of course, but this is Rolling Stone. There's only so much you can expect, alas.

Songs in the Key of Life

491. Harry Styles, 'Fine Line' (2019)

this is disgusting, ban rolling stone imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMOlkkwR2gw

xxxp yes for sure. it has been in a couple of The Quietus's 'top albums of all time/ baker's dozen' lists already.

Can't work out if If You're Reading This.. instead of Nothing Was The Same is a surprise or not but i raised en eyebrow.

xxp

Sheffield is a comically huge stan

more like kind of blew

Kind of relieved in a life-is-more-understandable-this-way way that Galaxie 500 did not make that Rolling Stone list. But appalled that Abbey Road is the top ranked Beatles album

— Damon K (@dada_drummer) September 22, 2020

More like A Love Stupreme

Guessing Songs in the Key of Life will take it. It's my vote, as well.

would be cool to see different reggae artists on occasion

My point is that lots of people who like Kind of Blue — maybe even own it — unfortunately don't listen to much else when it comes to jazz

hard for me to say this consideration matters when an even more egregious example (legend) is also in the top 50

Jazz fell out of the mainstream precisely because the scene started to value challenging and rewarding over pleasant to listen to. Most humans prefer the latter.

Yes, of course.
Here’s the biggest pop hit of 1966:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kj9qv6rmG8

And here’s Cecil Taylor’s “Steps” from that same year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXbNDJeAR1k

Legend's inclusion is a waste. By this point, if you like the guy, you've bought Natty Dread or whatever -- you don't return to the comp unless you're a non-critic.

Regardless of how they reconfigure or update these lists, they always have a 'top 50 albums of someone who's heard a total of 100 albums ever, all of which appeared on previous top 50 album lists' kind of feel to them.

^O.L. OTM again

hard for me to say this consideration matters when an even more egregious example (legend) is also in the top 50

Totally agree. And African Herbsman is my favorite Marley album. Where's Funky Kingston and Two Sevens Clash on that list anyway? Wish they had a search function.

Guessing _Songs in the Key of Life_ will take it. It's my vote, as well.

look lads once you've determined the best ever album of its genre any arguments are just showboating

also this is slipping into anecdotal territory and more likely due to my age than anything else, but i've never met someone whose only jazz record was kind of blue. i've met plenty of ppl who's only reggae record was legend but that's part of the modern american college experience

I see that despite several nods to post-'90s "country" albums, the electors opted to snub the core, the heart music: George Jones' I Am What I Am

the marley record should've been catch a fire, not only perfect but important too

Legend is less egregious insofar as it’s a collection of *songs*, which is a guiding principle throughout.

full list in text

There were def many eyerolls throughout Pitchfork's updated 80s lists but their reggae albums and singles picks were all surprisingly excellent recommendations imo. Would be cool if RS had any desire to run with that lead.

honestly find it kind of stunning that the highest U2 album is achtung baby at 124

The right Bjork album placed highest, but not the right Badu.

the shapes here are familiar but more native to contemporary skies

xpost Thanks, mookie!
Funky Kingston at #344? Criminal!

No metal, no justice.

Voted Ramones.

Beyond Pavement (3), Liz Phair (1), and YLT (1), is there any other "Nineties indie rock"? Asking for a friend

Bit daft that Lemonade is so high when even top Bey stans Pitchfork seemed to have changed their minds recently; the self-titled album was at number 3 in their end of decade list, Lemonade at 41.

xp (I'm not a YLT scholar, but I Can Hear the Heart Beating As One feels like an odd choice, no?)

Consensus, baby (I'm a Painful stan).

Ah - it's Electr-O-Pura for me

There’s def a lot of 90s in this list, but a very different 90s than the one RS sold us at the time.

Which, good.

I Can Hear the Heart... was YLT's highest-ranking album in Pazz & Jop (#5 in 1997).

American Idiot is actually one of the worst albums of all time.

yikes full list is more parochial than I imagined

It must suck to be Brazilian and to know no one there has ever made an album as good as John Mayer's Continuum

Rob OTM.

Africa Brasil made my list, and I should've stuck Expresso 2222 in.

Here are the 2010s albums in the top 500 (could be an interesting poll on its own):

491. Harry Styles, 'Fine Line' (2019)
484. Lady Gaga, 'Born This Way' (2011)
480. Miranda Lambert, 'Weight of These Wings' (2016)
472. SZA, 'Ctrl' (2017)
460. Lorde, 'Melodrama' (2017)
459. Kid Cudi, 'Man on the Moon: The End of the Day' (2019)
458. Jason Isbell, 'Southeastern' (2013)
447. Bad Bunny, 'X 100pre' (2018)
442. The Weeknd, 'Beauty Behind the Madness' (2015)
419. Eric Church, 'Chief' (2011)
397. Billie Eilish, 'When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?' (2019)
395. D’Angelo and the Vanguard, 'Black Messiah' (2014)
393. Taylor Swift, '1989' (2014)
382. Tame Impala, 'Currents' (2015)
367. Drake, 'If You're Reading This It's Too Late' (2015)
346. Arctic Monkeys, 'AM' (2013)
328. Vampire Weekend, 'Modern Vampires of the City' (2013)
321. Lana Del Rey, 'Norman Fucking Rockwell!’ (2019)
315. Rosalía, 'El Mal Querer' (2018)
312. Solange, 'A Seat at the Table' (2016)
295. Daft Punk, 'Random Access Memories' (2013)
270. Kacey Musgraves, 'Golden Hour' (2018)
269. Kanye West, 'Yeezus' (2013)
230. Rihanna, 'Anti' (2016)
213. Fiona Apple, 'The Idler Wheel' (2013)
196. Robyn, 'Body Talk' (2010)
175. Kendrick Lamar, 'DAMN.' (2017)
148. Frank Ocean, 'Channel Orange' (2012)
137. Adele, '21' (2011)
115. Kendrick Lamar, 'good kid, m.A.A.d city' (2012)
99. Taylor Swift, 'Red' (2012)
95. Drake, 'Take Care' (2011)
81. Beyoncé, 'Beyoncé' (2013)
79. Frank Ocean, 'Blonde' (2016)
32. Beyoncé, 'Lemonade' (2016)
19. Kendrick Lamar, 'To Pimp a Butterfly' (2015)
17. Kanye West, 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy' (2010)

― jaymc, Tuesday, 22 September 2020 15:21 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is like all my ILM pet hates in one place, fuck

like, the fact that they have all this and NOT the ATCQ comeback album on there is completely damning

xp
Yeah, to be somewhat fair, there's not an obvious Kind of Blue/Legend/Indestructible Beat* type token pick for Brazil for the less interested (not meaning you Alfred, obvs) to include

* This is one of those odd canon artifacts though; surely no one really listens to this comp as a thing in itself anymore?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Tropic%C3%A1lia_LP.JPG

oh that's a very good point, but ime it's not actually all that beloved? I had written but deleted a bit about Os Mutantes at one point being the obvs candidate

I'm surprised Transa isn't more tokenized, it's even in English!

oh hey! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rolling_Stone_Brasil_100_Greatest_Brazilian_Music_Records

abbey road ffs

literally the last beatles album i would reach for on any given day

is there any SST on the list?

is this Groundhog Day? How many more of these are there?

stopped reading thread after first pet sounds diss

voted kendrick

lots of people who like Kind of Blue — maybe even own it — unfortunately don't listen to much else when it comes to jazz

which has exactly zero to do with whether its a great record

xxp Damaged is at #487

theres something so dispiriting about these lists that I can't bring myself to vote for anything even though I love many of these albums and have even listened to one or two of them in the last month

answer to self:

minutemen at 267
huskers and black flag in the 400s

top 50 box score:

jazz 1
metal 0

it's wild that spirit of eden or laughingstock have not penetrated this cohort enough to make a top 500 list after 30 years!

two solo female artists in the top 10. writeups of both use their first sentence to note that they are, in fact, female.

Still an improvement over having no solo female artists in the top 25 (or so)

Yeah, to be somewhat fair, there's not an obvious Kind of Blue/Legend/Indestructible Beat* type token pick for Brazil for the less interested (not meaning you Alfred, obvs) to include

Does Getz/Gilberto count?

ooh I hadn't clocked no Zeppelin, that is weird!

― rob, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 9:25 AM

It's not actually true: Led Zeppelin IV (#58); Led Zeppelin (#101); Led Zeppelin II (#123); Physical Graffiti (#144); Houses of the Holy (#278).

Fucking Abbey Road

Flashing back to “Here Comes the Sun” being their top track (by a lot) on Spotify.

the Womack & Womack version, of course

I will stan all day long for the Beatles from Rubber Soul through the white album, and even the early pop, but, except for the three big hits, I don't get what people see in Abbey Road tbch.

...it's their best album? if you ignore the first few tracks

yes aside from having three of the best songs by the band The Beatles, not much to recommend it

xp we were talking only about the top 50 re Led Zeppelin

It and Revolver are the only two I’d say I listen to with any regularity.

That leaves "Here Comes the Sun", basically.
3xp
Yeah, three great songs IS low for a Beatles album imo and "Here Comes the Sun" is the only one I'd put among their best.

Getz/Gilberto probably a little too jazzy for RS, but elsewhere yeah that would be a perfect token pick to signal awareness of Brazil

xxxp oh, sorry

(they only had one album in the top 50 last time – the debut)

Haha, Close to the Edge did make the top 500 this time!

Also Journey to Satchidananda - nice

Hate this list

Yeah, three great songs IS low for a Beatles album imo and "Here Comes the Sun" is the only one I'd put among their best.

*good songs

2pac’s highest ranking is all eyez at 436. Maybe one day he’ll make an album as good as Rosalia or drake’s “if you’re reading this it’s too late”

Fucking MIA - Arular is over the entire 2pac discography. Go to hell

Someone make the case that Amy Winehouse's Back to Black is a better or more important album than anything made by Led Zeppelin, Johnny Cash, or John Coltrane.

To their credit I’m amazed they haven’t canonized Tyler, the creator. I’m not a fan, but it feels like such a bullseye for their taste in rap it almost feels like negligence that he didn’t make it

Laid the groundwork for Adele
xp

honestly find it kind of stunning that the highest U2 album is achtung baby at 124

And by stunning I hope you meant 'deeply refreshing'

Re Indestructible Beat of Soweto:

* This is one of those odd canon artifacts though; surely no one really listens to this comp as a thing in itself anymore?

It's not actually that good, at least not when compared with, like, 90% of African music. It was a political pick in the '80s and it's just grandfathered in now. At this point it should have been replaced by, I don't know, the first volume of the Nigeria Special series.

Anyway, amusing/bemusing to see Kanye in the canon right at the moment when he's spending his time Not Running For President.

The Diary of Alicia Keys at 277 ... never listened to this. Is it actually any good?

No.

Figured.

Neither is Blood on the Tracks fwiw

considering the rest of the cultural landfill that made this top 50, Joshua Tree definitely belongs there who does Rolling Stone think they are kidding they love that shit

anyone fronting that this list is anything other than deeply conservative trash that nobody needs is a shill

that goes for all these lists, but at least RYM etc are just the unhappy realities of aggregates. this is editorialised

The lack of electronic really bothers me. No Aphex Twin, Boards of Canada, Autechre, Burial. One Kraftwerk (238). One New Order (262 - new to this list). Two Daft Punk albums in the 200s including RAM, ew. Another Green World at 338.

deeply refreshing

i suppose? no matter how one feels about U2, *rolling stone* listing three kanye albums before reaching them is unexpected

^it's like the R.E.M. thing... those bands have fallen deeply out of favor, I guess

Can't wait until fart hop really takes off in 2040 and RS dumps every Beatles album underneath the debut by the Toot-Toot Crew.

farts >> The Joshua Tree.

Can't argue.

I thought this was common knowledge

yes we know ILX's opinion of the Joshua Tree but I don't buy Rolling Stone not still loving it

Smoke'em out!

2pac’s highest ranking is all eyez at 436. Maybe one day he’ll make an album as good as Rosalia or drake’s “if you’re reading this it’s too late”

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 11:03 AM (forty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah this is bullshit

but also... somewhat reflective of broader trends

I personally think it's cool Rosalía made the list; it's one of the few recent albums on there that I stan for.

(2pac's rankings notwithstanding)

but also... somewhat reflective of broader trends

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 1:52 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Idk ... I can’t think of many rappers from that era who are still relevant. Polo G just did a pac tribute song. Kendrick used him heavily in the marketing of (top 100 album) TPAB

Interesting that Rumours moved from 25-->7 from the last list but the s/t fell off (from 183), and no other Fleetwood Mac album made the cut.

Idk ... I can’t think of many rappers from that era who are still relevant. Polo G just did a pac tribute song. Kendrick used him heavily in the marketing of (top 100 album) TPAB

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 12:03 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

reflective of broader trends among critics not rappers

The Balearic fad of the late '00s and early '10s not enough to elevate Tango in the Night

Before pandemic I asked my students about which old school rappers they still listened to. Every one said 2Pac. Pretty sure they stream 2Pac more than any Kanye before 2013.

excellent

If only 2Pac had come up with a lyric as deathless and universal as "MJ gone / Our nigga dead"

f.hazel otm, this bullshit list is basically them overcompensating and then turning around to everyone else all like, "HEY GUYS AMIRITE??"

moreover i think pac being at 346 and ready to die being at 22 is evidence that a really shitty and wrong attitude from the past twenty or so years has calcified

either that or the list is just as rockist as any of their past lists, just in different ways.

that has nothing to do with my point, the degree to which this list is rockist is not interesting to me. it's rolling stone, they're assumed rockist until proven guilty. a ton of ppl contributed to this list, a vast number of whom i imagine have no reason to get drunk on anything other than established canon

oh sorry austin i just realized that you were probably replying to yourself

I thought we'd already established that poptimism is the new rockism?

plenty of that going on in this list too

I will stan all day long for the Beatles from Rubber Soul through the white album, and even the early pop, but, except for the three big hits, I don't get what people see in Abbey Road tbch.

― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 1:41 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is pretty much where I am. I even prefer Let It Be to Abbey Road

I like the end of abbey road, golden slumbers and carry that weight. other than that, it's mostly toss bar come together, here comes the song, and something

blood on the tracks vs remain in light vs illmatic

ah, the old days of ILM!

I still think Abbey Road a solid 8/10, just the weakest Beatles album other than maybe Beatles For Sale. Revolver or White should have been the RS top-10 pick imo

as a true rockist i know that rubber soul is the best

rolling stone list: vmic
ilm using this opportunity to talk about the beatles:

I'm happier seeing Abbey Road at 5 than Sgt Peppers at 1 but I voted for The White Album, so there's that

brad its called beatlemania and its here to stay

It's been 5h and we're already at the point where not all messages are displayed. Thank you, RS, for resuscitating ILM. 🙏

should have gone with the beatles' red and blue albums, or maybe #1s, if we're including stuff like legend and the immaculate collection

Thank you, RS, for resuscitating ILM. 🙏

― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 1:12 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

we're part of the problem, lists are like internet traffic flypaper and we're just proving to the venture capitalists who structure every waking moment of our lives that we want more

beatle divinities

i mean god bless merle haggard but putting his four-disc box set here is absurd

At least it's not Zaireeka.

The day one of these listmakers has the courage to include One Kiss Can Lead to Another is the day they finally have my undivided attention.

^^right?? (I feel silly agreeing w/everything O.L. sez here today, but...)

(I mean, I guess best ofs and box sets are okay but a multi-artist compilation that actually is one of the best 'albums' ever is crossing a line, I geddit, I geddit)

phony ILMania has bitten the dust

What can I say, morrisp, I'm seldom not right about everythign.

we're part of the problem, lists are like internet traffic flypaper and we're just proving to the venture capitalists who structure every waking moment of our lives that we want more

Next up: 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die – The Poll.

t/s: listening to these 1001 albums vs dying

rolling stone list: vmic
ilm using this opportunity to talk about the beatles:

I'd be happy to talk about Xenakis but he didn't make the list.

Xenakis is fine and all, but where are the tunes?

What are the best Xenakis bangers?

why did we need 8 different polls to discuss the same topic tho

would rather a hundred vanity “my favorite albums” polls

Lol xp

Jonchaies absolutely bangs.

Try Pithoprakta.

Looks like we’ll need a poll

I'm down.

there's not an obvious Kind of Blue/Legend/Indestructible Beat* type token pick for Brazil

i think there is and it's Os Mutantes' self titled

or Africa Brasil. But every list *should* have Africa Brasil in it

I got to Pithoprakta first. There are definitely some banging sounds, thread has delivered

I'm all for focusing on Brazil but it's hardly the only country with a rich musical tradition that got the short end of the stick here.

'californication' was, in 2003, merely the 401st best album ever recorded; now it's 286th

Agreed! I got sick of scrolling but Japan was certainly underrepresented. Lots of Europe too

'californication' was, in 2003, merely the 401st best album ever recorded; now it's 286th

― mookieproof, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 3:43 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is directly attributable to the growing influence of psychic spies from china that try to steal your mind's elation

lol

1. Yes, 'Close to the Edge'
2. ZEPPELIN IV
3. Pink Floyd, 'Dark Side of the Moon'

^ what the liberal elite is trying to suppress

I got to Pithoprakta first. There are definitely some banging sounds, thread has delivered

<3

It's a good 'un.

_Jonchaies_ absolutely bangs.

I should hope not!

Try this as well for some literal banging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCVx_XwRaRU

No Pink Floyd in the top 50 is just criminal imo.

― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 10:14 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this does not rule

17. Kanye West, 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy'

not even a top 5 kanye west record

They didn't even put Legend at #420

A harry styles album from last year two spots above “here my dear” is one of those moments where I’m like ... hmm poptimism did go too far after all

Even putting aside the list I felt so cheated by that Harry Styles album. People were hyping it up like “he’s put a modern spin on glam and Fleetwood Mac and hall and oates” and it sounded like maroon 5 https://t.co/jtgntcruLF

— Dee Beare (@MadBeare) September 22, 2020

music, as a whole, is very disappointing it seems.

and that's why i give music...2.5 stars

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/619258069059375104/IA50xUAO.jpg

man, that thing is really old home week… folks that ain't worked there in a long time or for them in a freelancing capacity in a long time showing up to shower hosannas, not to mention some who swore to never have anything to do with the mag ever again…

It can't help but be super-conservative, but I contributed to every single list they did from 2000-2004, and I am confident that the people who work there now and the longtime freelancers, all of whom do not consider themselves conservative one whit, are proud as fuck that this thing was produced without a thought to what Jann wenner would or would not like.

awesome, too bad it still comes off as list made by a bunch of narcs.

ABBA The Definitive Collection?? What the fuck even *is* that?? There's like, even a 33/3rd book about ‘Gold’. That’s hilarious I’m sorry. I mean they should have gone with Arrival anyway obvs.

*on rooftop of Rolling Stone’s NYC offices*

staff: “so this list is ancient and has bald ponytail vibes”

Dave Fricke: “The 500 does not change. The 500 was written in blood. You bump Sgt. Pepper and you’re gonna enter a fucked up black hole where I can’t help you anymore”

— Ryley walker (@ryleywalker) September 22, 2020

sock solipsist (pomenitul) at 3:18 22 Sep 20

At least it's not Zaireeka

I hate the Flaming Lips now, but I got stoned w some dudes and we did the thing with 4 cd boomboxes in four corners of an apartment and it was absolutely amazing

Just assume I'm jealous (which I kind of am, even though weed has never been my jam).

I contributed to the list and did my best to fuck it up

^Miranda?

Bad list, needs more Ween.

lol at putting a greatest hits album in yr top 50

Wish there were many. And Neil Young.

I can get behind #1 & 2 as being the pinnacles of popular music.

I think Stevie Wonder, the Beatles, Prince, Dylan, Michael Jackson and Springsteen all had better albums than the ones that got the most votes. (All great albums to be fair.)

Greatest hits shouldn't count, especially Legend which I would put behind Bob Marley & the Wailers' first three Island albums alone.

Miles Davis's Kind of Blue feels like a worthless token addition. If anything, it deserves to be in the top 5, but not without many other jazz albums in the top 50. I guess ultimately it's too tricky to include jazz in polls like this - I think most listeners tend to strongly favor one or the other, and the results in this case isn't necessarily the best jazz, it's just what's known to people who don't spend as much time listening to it.

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy already seemed like the solid consensus pick for Kanye's best album, but The College Dropout remains my favorite.

And someone who actually went through the whole list pointed out that Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica was nowhere to be found, much less in the upper echelons where it belongs.

YES. Trout Mask Replica is the first thing I look for when trying to determine whether a massive list of classic albums is bullshit or not.

I hate the Flaming Lips now, but I got stoned w some dudes and we did the thing with 4 cd boomboxes in four corners of an apartment and it was absolutely amazing

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 6:27 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm on record saying that Transmissions from the Satellite Heart is the only legitimately good Flaming Lips album but I would also like to go on record saying that everyone should have the full Zaireeka experience just once in their lives because it's a pretty great experience (if not such a great album qua album).

Greatest hits shouldn't count

This makes no sense to me. It's one of the long-standing limitations of these lists, and I thought that maybe by now it was a thing of the past. It essentially rules out the likes of Dionne Warwick, the Shirelles, the Spinners, Bo Diddley, many '60s Motown artists, etc. (Everyone I've named is black...there are white artists from that era too who are also much better served by compilations--Gene Pitney, the Lovin' Spoonful, the Rascals--but key black pop artists from the early '60s are especially ignored.)

An album is an album is an album.

i would actually love to hang out with four friends and four boomboxes and smoke mad weed and listen to zaireeka rn

The dumping of Trout Mask Replica from the RS canon is bizarre

And someone who actually went through the whole list pointed out that Captain Beefheart's Trout Mask Replica was nowhere to be found, much less in the upper echelons where it belongs.

Trout Mask Replica is Beefheart's, like, third worst album. A vote for Doc at the Radar Station, Ice Cream for Crow, Lick My Decals Off, Baby or Bat Chain Puller (the real version, not the Shiny Beast version) would be reasonable, though.

The day one of these listmakers has the courage to include One Kiss Can Lead to Another is the day they finally have my undivided attention.

The 2012 list actually had something called The Best of the Girl Groups, Volumes 1 and 2 at #422 - though it's gone now. (They could have subbed in One Kiss... back then, if they wanted to!)

Man, I like Shuggie's Inspiration Information more than What's Going On and it didn't even crack the Top 500.

Is no one else as fascinated by the R.E.M. thing as I am? There was a time when Murmur would have been in every RS critic’s Top 20, no?

The fact there's no mention of Louis Armstrong whatsoever is also a joke. There are numerous comps on that list by artists whose best work came before the advent of albums. So where's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, or Complete Hot Fives and Sevens? Those collections are superb and document the birth of pop music — not just jazz — as we now know it.

REM's erasure from the canon is mos def bizarre. It's been long documented that the yoot of today ain't feelin' their vibes. I keep thinking we're coming back around to a time where their brand of abstract sincerity will once again become the heart music (like, christ, maybe the days of pandemic hardship?) but it doesn't seem like it's happening.

xpost RS lists are largely unconcerned with anything that happened pre-1960s, as I'd think would be wholly apparent by now.

fwiw I think this one is better than RYM or AcclaimedMusic's lists

Are you sure bc RYM had more King Crimson

Meanwhile, Abbey Road isn’t even the best album with that cover... amirite??

Zero Nas albums
Zero Brandy albums

very weird

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy already seemed like the solid consensus pick for Kanye's best album, but The College Dropout remains my favorite.

― birdistheword, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 7:34 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think Late Registration is the consensus of like, rap fans who don't live on RYM/Reddit

I would enjoy a Rolling Stone Top 500 that was created by reviewing the play history of all the contributors' electronic devices and streaming services and assigning each album a point score based on the frequency that tracks from it appear (and maybe bonus points each time an album was played in its entirety). Then rank the albums by total points scored.

Obviously the Joshua Tree would be #1 but I can't say what spots 2-500 would look like!

Damn, no R.E.M.? RS proclaimed them the '80s greatest best, so yeah, surprising. Murmur, Automatic for the People and Document would have seemed like sure bets, none I'd argue with.

I've grown to appreciate Trout Mask Replica a lot more over the years, and that came with my growing appreciation of blues, free jazz and avant-garde jazz of the '60s as well as Tom Waits and much of the music Beefheart inspired. It was an album I respected more than I liked it, but I've grown to love it. I love those other albums mentioned too, and they are certainly more accessible, but I still would go with Trout Mask Replica.

Louis Armstrong's complete work with the Hot 5's and 7's should arguably be in the top 5, but again, I wouldn't have it in isolation as if that work mattered that much and virtually no other jazz was worth mentioning in the top 50. I don't expect polls like this to ever fully integrate jazz with other forms of popular music. Imagine if that was the case though. With the presence of compilations being highly beneficial to, say, country and blues, the top 50 would probably look more like a permanent exhibit enshrined in the Smithsonian. I don't mean that as a knock, but I don't think that's what the editors at Rolling Stone was hoping to publish.

Are you sure bc it's kind of boring

xp

I haven't heard that RHCP EP but it's probably better than Abbey Road btw.

you won't be laughing when you die and can't get into heaven because you don't know the words to Exit

If you're going to include one Gaga album, who in the heck would choose Born this Way over The Fame Monster?

Lorde's Melodrama strikes me as another weird choice, though looking it up I see it got more general acclaim than I thought.

i would choose born this way over fame monster

(i did not rank a gaga album)

Murmur, Automatic for the People and Document would have seemed like sure bets, none I'd argue with.

The first two are there, but not particularly high (and the third fell off the list).

Oh, this video of Tetras is p cool. What do you guys think of Xenakis's sax quartet XAS? It feels like an outlier in his catalogue but I always liked it in its own way.

xpost maybe I'd better give Born This Way another listen.

There is no world in which Born This Way belongs in the top 500 of anything. I don't even dislike it, but just...no.

they've got the right Outkast album on there. still say wrong Kendrick (I'm still a 'good kid m.a.a.d city' dude but like them all.

Biggie's Life After Death shoulda made it too. it is that good.

xpost Born This Way is a very good album and I enjoy it but it's got filler and its highs don't reach the highs of some of these other albums.

Lily otm that Fame Monster is better

Voted London Calling. I tried to get into What's Going On earlier this year and couldn't quite do it. For something in that vein I much prefer Curtis Mayfield's Curtis.

Oh shit I actually meant to post a performance of 'Peaux' from Pléïades (hence the 'literal banging' part):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91uYVXQ3DU0

But Tetras rules too.

The other day I was tempted to start a thread about how baffled I am by sax quartets, almost without exception (Helena Tulve's Öö being one of them). But I haven't heard XAS so maybe it'll win me over?

xps

The other day I was tempted to start a thread about how baffled I am by sax quartets, almost without exception (Helena Tulve's Öö being one of them).

Have you tried listening to the World Saxophone Quartet? Because they were fantastic.

Rova are good too.

I would enjoy a Rolling Stone Top 500 that was created by reviewing the play history of all the contributors' electronic devices and streaming services and assigning each album a point score based on the frequency that tracks from it appear (and maybe bonus points each time an album was played in its entirety). Then rank the albums by total points scored.

― avellano medio inglés (f. hazel), Tuesday, September 22, 2020 8:54 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Feeling strongly that this is how we should compile the definitive ILM hot 100. Hope y'all are prepared for a canon-busting ballot consisting of SAWII, a couple Basia albums, and the Monkees' Pool It!. And no, I'm not joking.

Expose, Dying Fetus, Peter Cetera, and Richard Marx dominated my ballot

Tbh, I often feel like lists that do rank Sgt Pepper as the greatest album ever made should take that position to its logical conclusion and liberally sprinkle dense psychedelic and progressive pop throughout the list. Piper at the Gates of Dawn in the top 5, Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack and Freak Out in the top 50 at least, give some props to Procol Harum; some Elephant 6 when you want to keep things more up to date. Maybe picking Abbey Road as the best is more honest for a list that does whatever RS lists are supposed to do.

I'll check them out, thanks, unperson and Sund4r. As a general rule, I much prefer the sax in a jazz/free improv setting, and either solo or accompanied by (an)other instrument(s) for the sake of timbral variety.

xps

^Tropicalia would def be represented on that list btw. xp

wait hold on, i'm just noticing something

HOW IN THE FUCK DID KANYE BEAT WU-TANG

I even like that album but jfc

ODB never ran for president.

Yeah, I was sort of coasting on Amy Winehouse being the most egregious inclusion in the top 50 but it's clearly Kanye.

then where's Eric B and Rakim!!????!!

Wu Tang more psychedelic despite Kanye sampling KC and Mike Oldfield/Jon Anderson.xps

idk, that Amy album is truly one of my favs though.

Ok Computer should be above Kid A, buuuut....not by a lot, necessarily

and sometimes my mood changes on that

I like Kid A more than OK Computer and at the same time recognize it ranking higher is corniness of the highest order.

ODB never ran for president.

as if *being* big baby jesus isn't better than merely running for president

yeah, Sharon Batts and PowerSource wrote their letter to Jesus, not the President

I vote for "I Can't Wait" as the next nat'l anthem, easily.

yo yo MIami

Was just reading the list in chronological order... noticed a few cool selections I wouldn’t have necessarily expected, like The Raincoats and Fever to Tell.

is Marley's Legend big anywhere besides America? just echoing the lol at a greatest hits album being on here

Wait, why is that corny? It's their best imo. xp re Kid A

Kid A was my first midnight release purchase ever

OK Computer is unironically the best album of all time and nothing anyone says or does will ever change that.

Turning Chopin's Em Prelude into an anthem for Romeo and Juliet is kind of great but also supremely corny.

Ha, as if I knew that when I picked it up at the age of 12.

OMG, this whole time I've been reading "Legend" and thinking "Exodus" and wondering what people were getting upset about.

They both deserve a spot on a Pepper-centred list anyway.xp

Willa Cather should be better represented imo

before COVID went to a karaoke night where someone sang "Paranoid Android". was very confused. I understand "Karma Police", as that's very catchy and short, but ffs, as much as I love P.A. (and I do), it was awkward and lame.

It's not even that Kanye is such an egregious inclusion but that MYBDTF in particular is (as I said at the time) TL;DR: the Album and thusly too bloated and unedited to qualify for such a high placement imo.

To me, "Rumours" moving ahead of "London Calling" is perhaps the shift that really crystallizes the generational passing of the torch, from Gen X to Millennials, in terms of music audience taste.

My ballot!

"so appalled
Spaulding...ball"

"I put the pussy in the sarcophagus"

"yeezy upholstered my pussy"

vs

"Raw I'ma give it to ya, with no trivia
Raw like cocaine straight from Bolivia
My hip-hop will rock and shock the nation
Like the Emancipation Proclamation
Weak MC's approach with slang that's dead
You might as well run into the wall and bang your head
I'm pushin' force, my force your doubtin'
I'm makin' devils cower to the Caucus Mountains"

xxposts

props for the Supreme Clientele vote

Alfred, your ballot is much better and more fascinating but, lol, let's face it...you never stood a chance.

before COVID went to a karaoke night where someone sang "Paranoid Android". was very confused. I understand "Karma Police", as that's very catchy and short, but ffs, as much as I love P.A. (and I do), it was awkward and lame.

Did you do the different voices during the opera section?

lol i will admit I was singing the bass part of the choir for about 20 secs and then got bored cos nobody else knew the song at my table

RS's list is an Elantra, Alfred's is a Corvette

Maybe picking Abbey Road as the best is more honest for a list that does whatever RS lists are supposed to do.

Great point. Abbey Road pretty much single-handedly set the sonic template for 70s rock/"classic rock"

Kid A was my first midnight release purchase ever

Yup, as a 14-year-old October 3, 2000 was the most important day of my life up until that point. I find it impossible to be remotely objective about Radiohead, but I think OK Computer is still their best.

Also I have absolutely no problem with the inclusion of Legend. It's orders of magnitude more iconic any other greatest hits comp I can think of (maybe the Great 28 is up there), and it's a flawless listening experience. They could have swapped it for Exodus, but I'm glad they didn't.

I do think it's a bummer that Tropicalia is the only era of Brazilian music that gets any attention from mags like RS; 70s and 80s MPB were way more interesting.

I've been thinking lately that I need to run back through the Radiohead discography (for the first time in a decade and a half, and having never ventured further than Hail to the Thief). Kid A was inarguably a mindblowing experience upon first listen but I went into it on release week with no real expectations, and also I was utterly bombed on substances in that particular moment so I can't say for sure that Cracked Rear View wouldn't have been a mindblowing listen.

"Idioteque" is my favourite song of theirs.

xpost can you create a thread where you trip acid and listen to Hootie plz

Here are a few albums that I’m genuinely surprised don’t make the cut (and not just based on my personal taste or whatever):

Talking Heads 77 – while More Songs... is good, this is even better! The list undervalues the band via this omission.

Volunteers – while Surrealistic Pillow is good, this is even better! The list undervalues the band via this omission.

The Blue Mask – this album rules; I thought that was universally acknowledged.

Green – ok, it is my favorite R.E.M. album; but I also think it’s their best (next to Murmur). It was a creative peak for the band, and has also (IMO) stood the test of time better than most of theirs.

John Fogerty, Centerfield – has anyone listened to this? It’s, like, great – and fits right in the RS pocket.

Neko Case, Blacklisted – this really should be a canonical LP, in the same vein as Lucinda Williams and Gillian Welch.

Massive Attack, Protection – it’s even better than Blue Lines, no?

SAW II – nothing to explain here.

just noticed EPMD's Unfinished Business is not on this list

one more:

Traveling Wilburys, Vol. I – sorry to get all Boomer on ya, but this is a total pleasure; and if three Petty albums make the cut (including Full Moon Fever), there’s a perfect case.

top 50 lacks Neil Young, Al Green, Steely Dan.....all of whom I suppose lack a consensus best album

in general the complaints about philosophical coherence are right. I mean, if you’re gonna put Al Green’s Greatest Hits v1 on here at all it has to be a hell of a lot higher than #456...

top 50 lacks Neil Young, Al Green, Steely Dan.....all of whom I suppose lack a consensus best album

With Neil, Tonight's the Night and Rust Never Sleeps would be my two picks, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with the former.

I thought Call Me was as close to a consensus pick as you could get for Green, and it's certainly my favorite out of an incredible run of great albums. It's his most fully realized album and does everything just a little better IMHO.

Steely Dan's Pretzel Logic may have been the consensus pick at one point, and I go back and forth between that and Katy Lied. The latter is more consistent and even more gorgeous melodically speaking, but the former's a bit more idiosyncratic (a plus) and a bit sharper.

But hey, the fact that so many favorites are missing in a top 500 means there's just so, much, great, music in the world! What a wonderful Golden Age we're living in! (Apologies, the news has got me down.)

I thought it had been agreed that MBDTF Is not even the best Kanye album.

Marvin Gaye at #1 over Sgt Pepper’s is a choice I can get behind tho

Are the individual ballots for each voter going to get published? Interested in seeing those, specially a couple of the producers and musicians involved.

I shouldn't get annoyed about stuff like this, but that's a rubbish top 50 list. God knows what the rest of it is like.

Individually these records are all great (or at least, I can see the appeal), but man is this a narrow slice. Among the best 50 records of all time, is there really no place at all for any classical music, opera, ambient, metal, afrobeat? Not a single house/techno album or even a DJ mix? No place for Sinatra, Duke, Coltrane, Ella, Billie? Kraftwerk?

christ a boring 50 in the most expected way imaginable. will have to be,'Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers), the other albums i care for here were bested by their creators elsewhere

will toast alfred for putting oceans apart on his ballot

Obviously not, Siegbran.

Tbf, classical music isn't a tradition built primarily around recordings - doesn't mean that e.g. Bernstein's Beethoven 5 isn't a great recording but 'albums' don't quite mean the same thing imo. RS did come out of 60s rock culture; I don't necessarily think they're doing something wrong by privileging a particular aesthetic.

I agree with you all, albums do suck.

And it even came out of a particular literary, songwriterly approach to 60s rock culture whereby e.g. Bob Dylan is obviously greater than Led Zeppelin and the Velvet Underground are more significant than King Crimson, which, again, is fine.but is a particular aesthetic. (I mean, f. hazel is probably right that they DO love the Joshua Tree.)

One thing I'll say about eclecticism is that by its very nature it tends to make lists like this redundant. You can coherently rank and compare things that are comparable and can be evaluated relative to each other. The more aesthetics you are willing to appreciate on their own terms, the less it makes sense to rank the greatness of What's Going On vs a recording of the Paris Opera vs a 12" techno mix vs a field recording of Inuit vocal games etc. A list just becomes a random individual's favourites, cf. my EOY ballots for ILM polls. xp!

fwiw I know at least slightly about half of the critics who wrote blurbs, and I'm not sure "they" love TJT.

they ain't Robert Hilburn

Yeah, I totally defer to you on this; I'm just spitballing with no direct knowledge.

I'll never understand why Hot Buttered Soul is not considered one of the all time best

I am not 100% about this, but I am reasonably sure that there are no POC among the blurb writers. Not even Toure, who I believe was the first Black person on the edit staff, being that JW was allegedly uncomfortable around Black people. And so since this is the first big post Wenner, "c'mon, we're rilly rilly woke, honest" canon-building exercise, it seems to me to be fundamental that you get, like, Nelson George or Danyel Smith or some youngsters whose names do not come easily to me at the moment, instead of the pre-Pitchfork white guy/lady rockcrit establishment.

Too talkative, I’m guessing? I agree it should be up there.

xp

xxxposts: I understand that classical music prior to the 20th century isn’t built around recordings, and suddenly seeing an album by idk Glenn Gould doing Bach might feel surrounded by odd company, but I’’d argue that albums by composers such as “Music for 18 musicians” by Steve Reich or “Koyaanisqatsi” and “Glassworks” by Philip Glass do have very definitive albums behind them that have been very influential in pop/rock and wouldn’t feel out of place in a list like this.

Yeah, I would agree with those examples (though even then, ECM or Nonesuch version of Music for 18?) and, say, Branca. Obv, electroacoustic music also has definitive recordings. I'm not especially concerned about how RS reviewers would rank them relative to Carole King's Tapestry tbh but yeah, there's definitely a slice of contemporary composers who do focus on albums that could be considered.

I think in a list like this that is primarily centered around pop and rock, if you’re going to add token albums from other genres the only way they make sense is if they have been somewhat influential or have blurred lines into pop and rock music. E.g. albums by Fela Kuti, Kraftwerk, Philip Glass, Aphex Twin, several funk and soul albums, the DKC2 soundtrack...

Nina Simone, Jorge Ben, Erykah Badu, D’Angelo, Curtis Mayfield, Gil Scott Heron, Bill Withers...

I am not 100% about this, but I am reasonably sure that there are no POC among the blurb writers.

Brittany Spanos

it's a provincial usa-focused list, attempts to extend the reach outside of its narrow focus reek of cultural imperialism or, less glibly, an attempt to flatten pop experiences to one accessible to usa-based readers.

you could adapt the point to why "it's fine" that there's so little country, rap, whatever.

I'd honestly appreciate an 8,000 word preface detailing their criteria and acknowledging their blind spots.

I've only skimmed the first and last groups of 50--going to take a wild guess that the Pet Shop Boys aren't anywhere.

Formal integrity, innovation in the harmonic language, mastery of counterpoint xp

Also: assume Husker Du is on there (good) for Zen Arcade (not good).

Based on the text list linked upthread, PSB are at 435 for Actually. New Day Rising is at 428. The glorious Zen Arcade didn't seem to make it.

Formal integrity, innovation in the harmonic language, mastery of counterpoint xp

:D

according to an FB post from Xhukk, his name on this list is based on blurbs that he wrote in 2003; when they say they "started over from scratch," that does not mean that all the text is new. So it's probly that citations of the, ahem, pre-Pitchfork rockcrit establishment are based on shit from 2003, and that the new shit is generated from the present staff.

(xpost) Wow, that's great--I would have gone with Introspective, but that's a good choice. Ditto Husker Du (Flip Your Wig for me).

Ha, wow, Moving Pictures is at 379. The Wenner days really are over.

Lots of jazz in the '79 version of the guide it seems

http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/steveparker/rs_guide79.htm

Woah, those guys sure liked Coltrane and underrated Miles.

Need to change that username.

If I understand correctly there was a separate section for jazz and those jazz records weren’t on the main list.

There were separate sections for rock/pop/country/soul, blues, jazz, and gospel. There wasn't really a main list iirc.

I think a list for different genres would have been far more interesting than a top 500 rock/pop with token other entries

There’s good albums in the 500-201 portion but unfortunately with these “best of all time” lists most of the attention is directed towards the top tier.

I’ve always thought, and it’s specially evident in this revision that such an extensive list would benefit if broken down into 10 top 50 albums into subgenres, like say:

- Top 50 classic rock albums of all time
- Top 50 rap/hip hop albums of all time
- Top 50 jazz albums of all time
- Top 50 soul/funk/r&b albums of all time
- Top 50 electronic albums of all time
- Top 50 “world” music albums of all time
- Top 50 metal albums of all time
- Top 50 blues/folk/country/americana albums of all time

And so on... you get 10 times the chance to create a canon, for more clicks and more discussion.

Sund4r is correct about the separate sections in the red (1979) edition, and no main list. Weirdly, the albums in each artist's entry are listed alphabetically, while the reviews themselves are chronological, as they should be. Bob Blumenthal wrote the majority of the jazz reviews, iirc, and stuck around for the 1983 yellow RS Jazz Record Guide, where a few other critics hopped on.

There is also a separate section for Anthologies and Soundtracks in the 1979 version.

Some notable Bands and Artists that didn't make the cut below. Some of these are listed because they run contra to the "p4k-ication" narrative, others appeared multiple times on the prior list, and others are simply egregious absences.

- Animal Collective
- Aphex Twin
- Ariana Grande
- Arthur Russell
- Autechre
- Basement Jaxx
- Beach House
- Boards of Canada
- Boredoms
- Buffalo Springfield
- Burial
- Captain Beefheart
- Chance the Rapper
- Cheap Trick
- Clipse
- Duke Ellington
- Duran Duran
- Dwight Yoakam
- Emmylou Harris
- EPMD
- Eric Clapton
- Eric Dolphy
- Fugazi
- Garth Brooks
- Gas
- George Jones
- George Strait
- Gram Parsons
- Grimes
- Guided By Voices
- Hank Mobley
- Jackson Browne
- Jane's Addiction
- Joanna Newsom
- João Gilberto
- Justin Timberlake
- Kamasi Washington
- King Crimson
- Modest Mouse
- Mott the Hoople
- Nick Cave
- Os Mutantes
- Pharoah Sanders
- Philip Glass
- Roger Miller
- Serge Gainsbourg
- Sigur Rós
- Slayer
- Slint
- Spoon
- St. Vincent
- Stan Getz
- Stars Of The Lid
- Steve Reich
- Sufjan Stevens
- Sun Ra
- Talk Talk
- Tammy Wynette
- Terry Riley
- The Flaming Lips
- The Jesus and Mary Chain
- The Knife
- The Mamas and the Papas
- The Mothers of Invention
- The National
- The Postal Service
- Thelonious Monk
- Townes Van Zandt
- Waylon Jennings
- XTC
- Yoko Ono

I was complaining about compilation-friendly artists getting overlooked, but when I skimmed the lowest 50, I noticed a Supremes compilation (perfect example). So maybe I'm wrong about that.

four tops' reach out is #429, amy's back to black is #31 - make it make sense

I actually like the ridiculousness of not segregating things into genres and the tokenism that results. Makes ya ~think~. I mean obv this list is horrible but it's def a glimpse into what happens when consensus is employed and I find it interesting in a individual psychology meets group dynamics experiment sort of way

Top-ranking albums on Pitchfork's Best of the 2010s list that did not make the RS list:

11. Grimes - Art Angels (2015)
16. Joanna Newsom - Have One on Me (2010)
17. Sufjan Stevens - Carrie & Lowell (2015)
20. DJ Rashad - Double Cup (2013)
21. Beach House - Teen Dream (2010)
22. Destroyer - Kaputt (2011)
25. Jamie xx - In Colour (2015)

eric clapton is in there. layla.

it sucks that ween will never be on one of these.

xp true D&D but the old list had 461 Ocean Boulevard and Slowhand, too

I feel like a lot of the critiques itt aren’t getting to the core rottenness of teh new canon... like amy winehouse being ranked above the albums her album was ripping off

Or bad bunny being better than Otis Redding

The bad bunny thing makes me feel like I was really right abt the sketchiness of his appeal ... like Future didn’t make the list but Bad Bunny does??? He’s like 2010s rap, but in Spanish, is ranked one over Otis Redding and 2010s rap he is emulating doesn’t make the list at all

80% of these attempts to canonize 2005-present will not age well.

Bad Bunny is like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqKG0HEPoEw

xp are there any contemporaneous decade lists that stick out as getting it roughly right given 20+ years to age?

Interpol is a surprise given the presence of YYYs and Strokes i guess. No Suede despite Blur, Pulp and Oasis, another eyebrow-raiser for the Indie Kids.

Suede has a much lower profile in the U.S. than those other three.

Was just about to say.

The Stone Roses missed the top 10, inexplicably.

no gaz coombes

Suede's profile lower than Pulp's? I just asssumed they were about the same but am prepared to believe otherwise. Poor old Suede.

Suede tried so damn hard to break here, but I think their timing was just a little off in terms of coming through, not helped by how Sony handled them -- the big 1993 push made them counterintuitive for alt radio, the big reattempt in 97 after Coming Up was a massive UK smash in 1996 was choppy.

ultimately it seems like critiquing lists is like trying to think of ways to tweak U.S. foreign policy and not recognizing the whole enterprise is rotten

lists are bad

50 Best '50 Best Albums of All Time' Lists of All Time

50 Best '50 Best "50 Best Albums of All Time" Lists of all Time' Lists of All Time

It's like the human centipede of music criticism.

Music criticism is a sphere whose exact centre is any one of its 50 Best Albums of All Time lists and whose circumference is inaccessible.

who is "Suede"? are you guys talking about The London Suede?

xp are there any contemporaneous decade lists that stick out as getting it roughly right given 20+ years to age?

there's no perfect "end of decade" canon but the widely read 80s and 90s ones were not this bad.

xpost Yes

So named because there were literally dozens of Suedes popping up all over England at the time (the Bristol Suede were my personal favorite).

I've sat with this for a day. I honestly think picking apart individual choices and rankings is not seeing the forest for the trees.

The 2003 and 2012 lists were deeply sexist and deeply racist, but WERE attempts at canon building and path-lighting. The 2020 list corrects a lot of those mistakes, but is more like an open-tent free-for-all.

RS has sacrificed some amount of "editorial intent" to basically show "the zeitgeist." It's one you could already see in Pitchfork, the NPR list and RYM. Whether you think that's good or bad is up to you, but it's certainly DIFFERENT than how these things were

I think we can all agree that was good and smart and a long time coming to say "maybe we don't need EIGHT Springsteen albums and four Smiths albums on here and all this Mott the Fucking Hoople if it means we can include more rap and R&B and women. But actively deleting entire catalogs from the canon for modern poptimism really does nothing but create a mirror to the internet.

Like taking off the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music – an absolute indisputable bedrock exercise for American music! – to make room for Shania Twain and Jason Isbell does no one any favors. You're no longer teaching a canon and a history, you're repeating Twitter opinions. It's like replacing the Sight and Sound list with imdb.

It's poptimism, for sure. And people like what they like. But poptimism means actively deleting Professor Longhair, Jackie Wilson, Bobby "Blue" Bland, Little Walter, John Lee Hooker, the Drifters and Albert King from your canon to make room for Kid Cudi and Tame Impala.

In a sense it’s the most accurate version they’ve ever published, but you lose a lot with that transition

I don't think dropping older stuff in favor of newer stuff is necessarily "poptimism," it's just an acknowledgement that if you repeat this exercise every 8-9 years and the list doesn't change, why bother?

if you repeat this exercise every 8-9 years and the list doesn't change, why bother?

Well, I mean, since you asked ...

I don't love the list, but I do think it's cool that they're including stuff from as recently as 2019. I also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS list to listen to the Harry Smith anthology.

i also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS to listen to Harry Styles

harry styles > harry smith, it's science

"Like taking off the Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music – an absolute indisputable bedrock exercise for American music! – to make room for Shania Twain and Jason Isbell does no one any favors. You're no longer teaching a canon and a history, you're repeating Twitter opinions."

Is this how poptimism would operate in a list like this?

i also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS to listen to Harry Styles

But now you're just "picking apart individual choices," which Whiney said is missing the forest for the trees (notice he didn't cite Rihanna or Kendrick in his examples).

not saying it's poptimism, saying that it sucks

btw, im pretty sure the first place i'd ever heard about the harry smith anthology is from the 2003 rs 500 list.

No one wants to delete catalogs. But please I'm begging you don't replace Pink Floyd with Radiohead albums just place it all at 400 max!

Smash the PMRC (lol)

https://pitchfork.com/news/rolling-stone-billboard-vibe-more-to-operate-under-new-joint-venture-pmrc/

also don't think anyone needs to be told by a RS list to listen to the Harry Smith anthology.

― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, September 23, 2020 3:30 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I kind of feel like I do need that lol...? Who else is telling me about it in 2020

the marvel cinematic universe-like cultural hegemony of pre war blues and folk gets pretty tiresome tbh

if people on twitter could shut the fuck up about dock boggs for five minutes that would be great

if i have to see another distracted boyfriend meme about ignoring uncle dave macon in favor of blind lemon jefferson, i swear i'm deleting the app

95% of my interactions with Twitter occur via ILX and I still mostly hate it.

if i have to see another distracted boyfriend meme about ignoring uncle dave macon in favor of blind lemon jefferson, i swear i'm deleting the app

― i got a homogenic björk wine farmer permabanned (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 23, 2020 4:52 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao could you make this please?

we could go to 78 collector forums and post memes

Anywhere this full list can be read without scrolling that wretched website?

― piscesx, Tuesday, September 22, 2020 4:32 PM (yesterday)

you can see the whole list here:

http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/rs200.html#500Albums_2020

lol looks like every attempt at discussing the revised RS list on Steve Hoffman got threadlocked.

https://i.imgflip.com/4g1wel.jpg

bless u

Meme Jumper Blues

damn, i typo'd poor Buell Kazee

I kind of feel like I do need that lol...? Who else is telling me about it in 2020

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:46 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, I mean, this was the hands-down best thing about the RS 500 lists. They were boring, but sometimes being authoritative means being boring! We already have Pitchfork and RYM and CoS to tell you Madvillain is good

I mean, I look at this list and to ME, a nerd, it looks like they are sacrificing authority for crowd-sourcing.

I'm sure most normal human beings will look at it and just think the new authority is that, yes, Taylor Swift's Red is now better than Music From Big Pink

For me a revised list like this is reminiscent of one of those oft-referenced Star Trek:TOS spoken series in which the first two terms are from our past and the last one is from our future/their past.

xp - OK, but the alternative is just shuffling around the same group of albums for eternity, with nothing new past 1991, or whatever.

m sure most normal human beings will look at it and just think the new authority is that, yes, Taylor Swift's Red is now better than Music From Big Pink

― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten),

Since you put it that way, yeah, Red >>> MFBP. The first has got more songs I care about.

Your post a couple hours ago about the politics otm, especially since it looks like the magazine reprinted blurbs written by credited writers who had no idea this was happening and weren't paid for it.

Es

xp - OK, but the alternative is just shuffling around the same group of albums for eternity, with nothing new past 1991, or whatever.

― Scam Likely (morrisp), Wednesday, September 23, 2020 5:36 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is crazy reductive, there are plenty of middle points between arbitrarily inserting critically acclaimed albums from recent years and barring recent albums altogether.

honestly, i don't mind weighting towards older albums in these exercises. let albums marinate a bit before slotting them in between albums that people have lived with for years or decades.

it's just so tiresome....how many better or worse is Enter the Wu Tang than Red Headed Stranger? Looka-Ka Py Py is now one better than Loveless, it's official. what is the fucking point of comparing albums like that?

morris, come on there are toooooons of worthy deletions that were made and I don’t think saying “you know maybe four Smiths album is overkill in an era where people are more likely to rep Kate Bush” is on the same playing field of thought as “Let’s take off the Rosetta Stone of American Folk and Storytelling tradition to make more room for Kid Cudi”

xxp Well, I obviously don't think they should be "arbitrarily inserted." And the actual ranking is always gonna generate controversy, that's inevitable. But in terms of inclusion... a case can certainly be made for adding newer albums, and dropping older ones that are maybe not so relevant anymore.

Whiney, I do see your point, don't get me wrong.

Yes, no shit, I’m not In here talking about Moby Grape, dude

(sorry - Moby Grape?)

I guess I'm just reluctant to clown on the individual newer choices that may not be my bag - because a few of the others are, and I can imagine a list like this making even more adventurous choices which would leave me going, "Yeah, cool!"... and not missing the Drifters at all.

Oh, I see, Moby Grape - yes, again, I hear you about Harry Smith, and I guess will cry "uncle" and concede it should be on any Top 500 list.

especially since it looks like the magazine reprinted blurbs written by credited writers who had no idea this was happening and weren't paid for it.

the blurbs are pro forma and awful. which adds to the glaring problem that, whatever anyone might think about this album or that album or this genre or that genre, there's no point of view at work here.

Did RS ever include four Smiths albums in an all-time list? I didn't know they were so beloved at RS.

which is to say, yes agree with this: It's like replacing the Sight and Sound list with imdb.

(xp to myself)

whiney otm

There were four Smiths albums on this list (2003?)

Ah, thanks.

Btw - that list had the Anthology of American Folk Music two notches above The Immaculate Collection, but three notches below The Marshall Mathers LP.

I guess this is why I have a hard time feeling that something deeply valuable has been lost, in terms of an authoritative guide to the canon... the lists have always been silly.

otm

all three of those albums belong on a top 500 list

Sure, but so is Red, that's kind of my point (and I'm not gonna split hairs over Kid Cudi). Anyway, however you slice it, it doesn't quite seem equivalent to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sight_%26_Sound_Greatest_Films_of_All_Time_2012; which looks like a honed-down list of truly canonical, arty films.

(whoops, I meant for that to actually be a hyperlink... open the pod bay doors, please, Hal; my AE-35 unit is malfunctioning)

Thanks for posting the full-list link above...If nothing else, I'm glad the Jefferson Airplane are hanging on for dear life at #471. And as a big Cream fan, even I'll admit that something of theirs at #170 in 2020 is rather specious. (Can't believe that actually reflects voting--Wenner or somebody just stuck that in.)

John Mayer is the most surprising entry in the top 500 for my money.

I wonder how many albums are on this revised list and the NME 500 best albums ever list from 2013

http://www.rocklistmusic.co.uk/nme_500_greatest_albums_2013.htm

can only imagine 100 beatles records
100 stone roses records
50 paul weller records
2 oasis records
england's newest hitmakers
the rest by guys named mick or noddy

Lol

list as text document
https://pastebin.com/FEYNfv6X

if this was posted already, ignore

King Crimson’s RED >>>>> Taylor Swift’s RED

Btw there isn’t a single King Crimson album in this list, which is terribly inconsistent when they named “in the court of the crimson king” the #2 best prog album of all time: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/50-greatest-prog-rock-albums-of-all-time-78793/pink-floyd-the-dark-side-of-the-moon-1973-38362/

I know it’s a different, wider pool of votes yadda yadda, but still...

Insert joke about the sample on Kanye’s “power”

yes, Taylor Swift's Red is now better than Music From Big Pink

― Thoia Thoing, Maryland (Whiney G. Weingarten),

Hooray! :)

1. Marvin Gaye, 'What's Going On'
2. The Beach Boys, 'Pet Sounds'
3. Joni Mitchell, 'Blue'

Brain is so poisoned by uspol threads that I am reading 1) as 'BLM', 2) as rock for evangelists and 3) as "move to Canada".

Blue hovers high above the rest...

The Rolling Stone Blue Record Guide?

As usual for lists like this, I think the bottom half is more interesting than the top half. At least, it has more albums that make me curious to check them out. The top half is mostly stuff I already have settled opinions about or that I know to be outside my wheelhouse.

On a positive note they're still reserving deep 300-400 list space for the three '70s Big Star records.

doesn't look like anyone's dumped all 500 of these into a spotify playlist, tempted to do it myself but i just know I'll get to like #165 and start having profound regrets about the time it's taking.

There might be a handful of people here interested in Christgau's list (also his wife's).

https://robertchristgau.substack.com/p/lists-on-lists-on-lists?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=copy

Glad Wussy's on there. I used to think they'd catch on eventually, headed for the day they'd start showing up on all-time lists, but I doubt it; Wussy cultdom will probably go out with Christgau.

This can only mean one thing: the time has come to poll Xgauleiter's list.

Predictably, his top 50 is as soporific as all the others and Carola Dibbell's is no better (I did scoff @ the Moldy Peaches tho, so props for that moment of controlled chaos, I guess).

That was useful, thanks

Eminem, The Marshall Mathers Album

This made me chuckle (not its inclusion, the way he rendered the title)

Moldy Peaches is pretty lol

that's a v xgau list

pleased to see debarge

Pleased to see Orchestra Baobab, also one of my favorites.

A lot less jazz than I expected on the xgau list. Kala the best album of the century? Really? Guess I’d better finally give it a listen.

It wasn’t ranked in order of preference but I still prefer Xgau’s list to the awful RS 500 list. Aggregates lead to mediocrity.

These things are checklist for newbies. It was for me. Not a bad thing as I kept that issue of RS around for years when I was a teenager in the 80s. I have a hard time thinking that a teenager really gives a flip now. The pop music continuum has been blown up into a million playlist universes. It's just all just old shit now.

Otm

The radio station I had on in the car this morning had a one-minute story on the list, which I suppose counts for something, although it's mostly just the news filling space off the wire (I mean, off their Twitter feed). According to the story, Madonna's not on the list? Surely I misheard.

I did, or they messed up: she's on there three times.

Maybe they were arbitrarily focused on the Top 50 (a la my Zep error above)

For reference, here is Xgau list of A+ records, he picked a different Wussy album! https://www.robertchristgau.com/get_gl.php?g=A%2B

“Wussy” should be disqualified by their name alone. Sorry, fam

I think the lists still have a purpose — mainly, arguments

Yeah, but while we're arguing about Sgt. Pepper's drop or Miseducation's leap, [insert undersung band/genre/album] is receding further and further into oblivion.

Referring to the Top 50 only, yes...I think he picked the right Wussy album, based on the CD-90 I play in the car; think the first four or five songs are from the debut (including "Airborne," still their greatest).

Xgau list is very safe and boring - note: this doesn’t mean it is a bad list - with some notable exceptions: latin playboys, orchestra baobab and Tom Ze.

I don’t know why he just went with that A+ list. It’s miles better imho.

“Why he didn’t just use that” is what I meant... sorry for my bad english.

when i see you smile

lots of people who like Kind of Blue — maybe even own it — unfortunately don't listen to much else when it comes to jazz

which has exactly zero to do with whether its a great record

Never said it wasn't a great record — it is. But there are better jazz albums out there, and how would anyone know that without exploring more. It drives people crazy when Sgt. Pepper or whatever is anointed as the greatest pop record ever as if it's an international consensus. So why accept that consensus so quickly for Kind of Blue when it comes to jazz? Especially, when you consider the fact that jazz musicians have been making records since 1917. Miles has a lot more competition than the Fab Four.

OTM

Tbh, I often feel like lists that do rank Sgt Pepper as the greatest album ever made should take that position to its logical conclusion and liberally sprinkle dense psychedelic and progressive pop throughout the list. Piper at the Gates of Dawn in the top 5, Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack and Freak Out in the top 50 at least, give some props to Procol Harum; some Elephant 6 when you want to keep things more up to date.

Lists that rank Kind of Blue as top jazz album should similarly be packed with meditative modal jazz and minimalism.

Tbf, it does make a kind of sense that pop/rock fans might genuinely prefer modal jazz to swing or bop.

I've listened to lots of jazz albums. KOB is my favorite.

It's not that it isn't a great ablum or shouldn't be some people's favorite album or that "real" jazz people don't like it or that the tunes don't get played all the time at jams sessions and such, it's just that... what is it again?

There's a pressure to, the deeper you get into a genre (or just an artist), not have your favorite(s) be the same as a dilettante's

It's like betting on the favorite.

I've listened to more reggae than 99.5% of humanity. Legend was the 1st reggae "album" I ever heard. I still love nearly every song on it, but it's too polished and shiny for my tastes and wouldn't make my top 10 of reggae albums. Marley wouldn't make my top 10 favorite reggae singers. But I totally understand why people who don't listen to much reggae would pick it and him as #1. Crossover appeal baby! It's great music AND it's more similar to what they already like AND it's more likely to be stumbled upon than, say, Heart of the Congos or On the Beach or 2 7s Clash or Good All Over. I think the frustration comes from a good place: "there's so many other great albums in a genre I love, I wish it was easier for people to stumble across some of them, and a placement in a Rolling Stone list would be a good one for that to happen".

Right, well said. For me it's like why even bother to go to the trouble to put that one on there at all, enough with the charade.

Anyway I am on the downside of the parabola of wanting to see aggregrate lists, the maximum point being around that same Sight and Sound poll Eric mentioned.

Tbc, I have zero problem with KoB on these lists! "Freddie Freeloader" is one of my go-to jam tunes, or was when there were jams. Also, Sgt Pepper is the best pop album.

If anything, I want people to commit more.

i'd honestly kinda love to see piper at the gates of dawn in the top 5

yea, i dont think that 'kind of blue' is the 'legend' of jazz. it's not too polished or shiny; it was a landmark record with a singular sound that at once epitomizes jazz essence and stands apart from it. It makes sense it has a more immediate appeal to people who don't listen to jazz, but it's very much ... jazz, undiluted. jazzbo's argument feels like knowledge flexing or something

its why im frustrated by the low placing for 2pac. .. its reflective of the values of critics and which strands & legacies & traditions of rap they're willing to take seriously and which ones they downplay or minimize ... kind of blue is an album w that kind of representative power imo while also being extremely listenable

Maybe it's just too pretty for some jazz heads idk. Or doesn't fulfill the "challenging" requirement that some ppl love jazz for.

My sense is once Parker and bebop arrived, jazz heads were skeptical of anything that the public at large liked and was pleasant to listen to

I said well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles
Way that Bobby Brown is just ampin like Michael

LOL, reminds me of something a bartender at the Green Mill once said about listeners who treated jazz like "egghead" music: "there's nothing wrong with TUNES."

Shirley Collins to thread!

I have no problem with Kind of Blue topping any jazz list. So what if it certain listeners gulp it down like easy-listening? The Searchers and Vertigo were potboilers to some. They can all function on that level, but that's more on the audience's failure to see or listen beyond the surface.

yea its a pretty ~profound~ listen frankly idk why rock music is allowed to be profound and accessible but jazz has to be a walled garden to be good

It doesn't. No one said this. Jazzbo only said it wasn't his number one and you lot are accusing him of gatekeeper snobbery obscurantism.

he said a lot of other things that pretty much implied it?

i just found it annoying that he basically went "pshaw, what do YOU at Rolling Stone know about JAZZ anyway" where in the article it's pretty clear it wasn't just Rolling Stone staff voting, that it was 300 actual voters including journalists (including our own Alfred and Whiney), artists (some of whom are actually jazz musicians), songwriters and producers. a wide variety of people who may be jazz aficionados or people like me who admittedly only have a few jazz albums. so yeah, chances are when you do something like that, you're going to get more obvious choices.

I get it, being a metalhead I get tired of people going "oh u like metal? oh isn't Mastodon the best?" as if they're the only metal band alive, but there's a diff between Kind of Blue winning a "top 500 jazz albums of all time" poll and a generalized albums poll. Like, I'm not going into one of these 500 greatest albums polls expecting the highest charting metal album to be something by Cryptopsy.

like I don't get the gripe, he's mad that....300 independent voters chose wrong?

i think there were much more egregious 'voting mistakes' made by the collective, in that case.

i'd understand it more if this was a jazz only poll, or a wide-ranging "greatest album" poll with a smaller voter base, or if it was internal-only, like only few Rolling Stone music editors. a smaller base where one or two people's votes could have a much larger effect on results, and yeah, the results would probably be more varied.

300 people that come from all different scenes, even if you had 50 hardcore jazzheads, you'd have to consider many of them would make room in the 50 for non-jazz albums they like. so the top jazz albums they vote for, are they all going to be the same? probably not, people deeper into the scene often have their own personal preferences, so there'd be massive vote splitting and the jazz album that rises to the top is the one that not only appears on all of their Top 50 ballots (or most of them), but the one that also manages to appear on the non-jazzhead ballots.

it's the same reason Mastodon always gets undeservedly high marks in generalized aggregate music polls, because they're one of the newer metal bands non-metalheads know and like.

there's a diff between Kind of Blue winning a "top 500 jazz albums of all time" poll

fwiw, it does tend to top of these kind of polls as well...

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/erikfish/best_jazz_albums_of_all_time___22_lists_combined/

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/best-jazz-albums

https://www.jazzwise.com/features/article/the-100-jazz-albums-that-shook-the-world

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/50-greatest-jazz-albums-ever/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Jazz/comments/8r3zcb/the_rjazz_top_100_album_results/

https://www.albumoftheyear.org/genre/35-jazz/all/pitchfork/

(^Not all of these are “polls,” and none go to 500; but I’m actually surprised at how it tops so many of these lists I found in a quick search. There were even more examples—but some of the sites seemed too janky to cite.)

Yeah, it's always been celebrated to that degree within the jazz community, even with Miles saying it didn't turn out the way he had hoped, which influenced his ability to appreciate it on the same level as an outsider. The Penguin Guide (hardly a conservative look at jazz) bestowed upon it a coveted "crown" without any hesitation.

I absolutely love Miles, and I also love Orson Welles, and the status of Kind of Blue is similar to Citizen Kane: to some degree (much more with Welles), it can overshadow their other work unfairly. They both made plenty of other masterpieces, especially Miles who had a far more prolific career thanks to his commercial success. But that shouldn't warrant any unnecessary backlash, because those works are indeed pillars of their respective art forms. They just have plenty of good company made by the same artists.

KOB was 9th in ILM jazz poll, right behind Sextant.

ATLiens wuz robbed.

If some brave ILXor wants to tackle it, I think the best compromise between stodgy rockist RS and reactionary poptimist RS would be combining the 2012 and 2020 polls.

--500-to-1 point system, then combining placements of anything that's on both lists
--New entries to the 2020 list would be given 1.5 weight to their points.
--Deleted entries from the 2012 list that feature music made before 1966 would be given 1.5 weight to their total.

That's how I break it down to an extent

Neanderthal, do u like Mastodon?

I'm going to work on a point system that manages to take the Shoes and Wussy from zero points to getting them on there.

KOB was 9th in ILM jazz poll, right behind Sextant.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Saturday, September 26, 2020 12:44 AM (eleven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't get me started on the ilm jazz poll

Rerun time?

What was wrong with it?

Didn’t swing iirc

If that's the charge, then a cursory look at the top 20 disproves it straight away.

It was an accurate reflection of ILM tastes and I found or rediscovered a few albums which is all I could ask for. That said, I feel like it overlooked "straight jazz" and privileged electro and spiritual hat jazz in its stead.

Yeah, I don't think that's a particularly swinging top 20 but it's also a great list.

I'm as disappointed as everyone else that Pat Metheny was ignored.

It's not the swingiest, sure, but it does swing in its own way. Then again, I probably have a peculiar understanding of swing.

No Ellington in the top 50 is the most headshake.gif part

Yeah, that's inexcusable.

All my favourite Ellington is pre-45, I think.

Most of mine is but Money Jungle and Far East Suite (which tbf were in the top 100) to name just 2 are after '45.

are not is

A brimful of Ellington

Were live albums eligible?

Was there anything post-75? I think I find that most glaring for a fusion-heavy list.

I'd be up for a dedicated fusion poll.

Never No Lament: The Blanton-Webster Band (or an equivalent collection) should definitely make any list of the best/most important popular music. Easily in the top ten for jazz.

James Blood Ulmer's Odyssey and John Zorn's The Big Gundown would definitely make my post-1975 list for jazz.

I love ‘40s Ellington — which is basically saying, I love music — but Far East Suite (1967), Latin American Suite (1968-70), New Orleans Suite (1971), and Afro-Eurasian Eclipse (1971) are among my favorite of his recordings, and (apart from Far East Suite) seem largely slept-on.

I think you're all upset Kind of of Blue didn't win. iirc brad didn't even vote nor did deej.

Tuomas was supposed to run a pre 1945 jazz tracks poll but it never happened. Maybe someone should start that poll?

I'm upset that Sgt Pepper didn't win.xp

Luckily I banned New Order from being nominated.

where did the Stooges records come in? what about sly stone? everybody must vote for the Ramones

It's not the swingiest, sure, but it does swing in its own way. Then again, I probably have a peculiar understanding of swing.

I mean, if I tell people at a jam I want to swing something, they're not going to take it as a cue to play in the style of Sextant or In a Silent Way. Doesn't take anything away from their being wonderful albums!

got New Orleans and Latin American Suite this year, what great records

New poll sees Kamasi Washington at #s 1 & 2

#3: The Comet Is Coming, #4-10: other Shabaka projects.

Oh, I get it. results arent manly enough

unlike these

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/10-albums-for-jazz-beginners/

https://www.manmadediy.com/best-jazz-albums-every-man-should-know

^wtf was my reaction to those sites coming up in best jazz albums google search

As someone who didn't vote in the jazz poll, yes, certain artists (Alice Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders, Ornette Coleman) are way over-represented in the results, others are way under-represented (Duke Ellington, Count Basie, but also Anthony Braxton), but it's hard to argue against any of the individual albums as albums. I mean it may not have my personal favorite Art Blakey, Hank Mobley, Grant Green, or Lee Morgan albums, but those guys are at least all on the list.

No need to re-poll as this would obvs win https://www.discogs.com/Various-A-Day-In-The-Life-Impressions-Of-Pepper/master/1536589

Whoa.