They have NICK CAVE polls now? I want one!: The ILM Nick Cave Poll Voting Thread (#106 in a series)

<img src=https://happymag.tv/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Nick-Cave-Large-.jpg>;

OK, so since the idea for this poll was first floated way back when, Nick Cave has released some very interesting music. Admittedly, I haven't come to proper terms with all of those new songs, but it's nevertheless rather inadvertently fitting that this opportunity for intensive listening took so long to get off the ground. It will no doubt be fun/ exhausting to trawl back through these dense, rich catalogues.

So here are the ropes:

Part I (mandatory): Your Top 20 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds tracks. As per usual, please present these in order from 1-20 and they will be weighted accordingly. Should you wish to submit an unranked ballot, please specify in the title or body of your email.

Part II (optional, but encouraged): Your Top 15 non-Bad Seeds tracks. This extends to The Boys Next Door, The Birthday Party, Grinderman, Nick Cave & Warren Ellis... Actually, I'm not familiar with any other Nick Cave-led projects beyond the ones I listed, but if you want to rep for something else that might qualify, go for it. Once again, present these in order or specify otherwise.

Part III (optional): Your Top 5 albums. In this category, you can vote for any Nick Cave-affiliated album, provided he is at the helm. EPs and soundtracks are fair game. Hopefully, we'll see some entertaining results.

Y'all can have till Tuesday, 15 December to record your ballots. Please submit to: nickcavepo✧✧✧@gm✧✧✧.c✧✧

Happy voting!

Let's try that picture again (it's been a while):

<img src="https://happymag.tv/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Nick-Cave-Large-.jpg";>

btw:

n i c k c a v e p o l l s @ g m a i l . c o m

Tuff Monks
Die Haut
Was the Peel session as the Cavemen?

Oh yeah, Tuff Monks! clean forgot about that. I really like that one song.

side projects off the top:

Tuff Monks - one single
Die Haut - one album with Cave as guest singer

the Ghosts... Of The Civil Dead soundtrack is by Nick, Mick & Blix, as is Hillcoat's To Have And To Hold a decade later

Cave did two duets with Anita Lane on the B-side of The World's A Girl 7": a cover of the Bedazzled title song, and a version of Je T'aime... Moi Non Plus that presaged Mick Harvey's two Serge Gainsbourg translated cover albums

Lydia Lunch's album Honeymoon In Red album is mostly backed by the Birthday Party* (and mixed by Foetus), with two Cave cowrite/duets, credited as Lydia Lunch And Her Dead Twin and as Lydia Lunch And A Drunk Cowboy Junkie

The Bad Seeds and VvV all played on/produced the What A Wonderful World single, but it was just credited to Nick Cave & Shane MacGowan (the b-sides were each singer doing one of the other's songs)

Cave has a handful of things just credited to himself too, nothing likely to trouble the poll iirc

and Nick Cave and The Dirty Three would like you to know that "0" is also a number

*bar one with Thurston, and one with Thurston and These Immortal Souls

btw I can understand if you want to limit the amount of work for yourself Charlie, but 20 main tracks and 5 albums might be a frustrating limit!

this is going to be really interesting, since he has such a wide-ranging and consistently good discography. i suspect my taste might be a little unusual in really favouring his late-period stuff to the point that ghosteen might be my favourite of his, but there's also a lot i haven't listened to in quite a while that i'm looking forward to digging into

xp@me: (like, there's 25-odd studio albums before you even get to sounddtracks and whatnot...)

Fair call on the albums. Let's extend that to a <b>10 album limit across the board.</b>

I'll stick with the current Bad Seeds tracks limit, since 20 songs apparently worked for the Bowie poll. I admit it might get tough (but will no doubt be more approachable for the fair-weather fans).

Opening post pic is too good to remain absent
https://happymag.tv/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Nick-Cave-Large-.jpg

thank you (I'll learn how to post pics in time for results).

np

lots of gaps in my Cave collection but I'll definitely get a ballot together

Hmm, I rarely participate in these polls, but I might do this one! I wonder if in the end it'll be a rocker or ballad that tops the list?

I predict The Mercy Seat for #1

Nick Cave and The Dirty Three would like you to know that "0" is also a number

in case you were wondering if anyone else would get the reference, I got the reference

I predict The Mercy Seat for #1

this seems like as good an excuse as any to finally listen to ghosteen

A+ poll title, kudos

My ballot will skew way too much towards the first few years of his career but screw it, I'm going to submit one, but will do a spot of late period listening first.

Oooh, it's on! Nice...

Haha, not much of a Nick Cave fanatic but I did sample Ann Magnuson saying "I want one" for one of my dance tracks.

it is just the fucking best, that line

these tracks we vote for can include cover songs, yes or no?

in terms of where they "go" on the ballot -- it is based on which Nick entity recorded them?

for example, if I wanted to vote for Nick & Bad Seeds' cover of "Tower of Song" from the I'm Your Fan compilation -- where would that go?

I really like Nick Cave and seeing him live a few years back was one of the best shows I ever attended (out of a thousand or more, most likely).

Yet his is so prolific that despite owning over half a dozen of his albums plus some Birthday Party stuff, I still don't feel "qualified" to opine here for some reason.

But I am already mentally bookmarking the Spotify playlist that this endeavor will almost assuredly spawn.

Cover songs are perfectly alright, yes.

If the cover is credited to Nick Cave and & the Bad Seeds, put it in the with the Bad Seeds tracks (not amongst the non-Bad Seeds stuff). So yeah, organise your lists according to who the songs are credited to.

Regarding the likes of Hee Haw, The Birthday Party, Mutiny and The Bad Seed

I'm guessing it'd be advantageous to think in terms of Hee-Haw and Mutiny/The Bad Seed as compilations these days, rather than frittering away (and potentially splitting?!?) votes on, aay, Hee Haw (the EP) or whatever?

^ "votes on, say, Hee Haw..."

yes, I think we can only vote for the individual, non-merged EPs in their original incarnations. good to get that point out there before the Mutiny/Bad Seed couplings start stacking up.

what do we think about live albums? I think they could be accepted.

Have just done a spreadsheet for fun to guide my listening, and I count 67 albums/EPs all up including live ones.

I'd say yes to live albums - I might not vote for Live Seeds, but it would feel wrong not to be able to vote it.

I'd say on tracks, the slower version of "Higgs Boson Blues" from the live from KCRW collection is the much superior version of that song.

Cave & the Seeds have been probably my fave (or close to it) currently working artist for the last 30-ish yrs, so I am in now deep research/reflective mode, will advise shortly

Taking bets now, will I be the only one to rank Nocturama #1? (Half-kidding, I might not put it first but it will be top 5 for me...)

I bet I am only ballot with Did Lazarus Dig era b-side "Accidents Will Happen" in my top ten! It is a good song but I also have freighted emotions cuz it is the first thing I played my newborn daughter by dint of alphabetical order and also she was er, an um...accident?

Hello i will be participating yes yes yes

THEY’RE READY

https://2c27809e61cd41c3b4f8d8995798bc09.objectstore.eu/media/750x/0.n4qm73vhwwyxde2bhwg7m0a4i-e373ec00821f0f44711a768826763159.png

ouch all I think of when I see that pic is "Far From Me"

Maybe the only artist with a long career where I've heard just about everything, almost all of it as it arrived in shops. "Tupelo" was the revelation. I can still picture standing in the friend's apartment, ashtrays and candles, spider plant and old leather sofa, as I was holding the LP jacket, just after she said "You've got to hear this song".

Also fun that this arrives so soon after the Cramps deep-dive. Both bands sit near the center of gravity for what I've wanted from rock music. They shared members, shared wit, and have a parallel obsessiveness and care for the discarded. It's hard not to include his covers, because as with The Cramps, some of them have lead me down long listening paths.

A lot of Bad Seeds albums disappointed me, and I'd have thought my list would be 80s heavy, yet it's shaping up evenly distributed though the decades.

Also, helpful guidance here

https://thehardtimes.net/blog/we-rank-the-albums-of-nick-cave-because-we-heard-a-girl-we-like-is-into-him/

A lot of Bad Seeds albums disappointed me,

they were always a "mix tape" band for me (along with The Cure) where there were so many songs I liked, but I wasn't super stoked on any one album. It's not like they had "filler" like some bands, just that there were songs I loved and songs that were just ok.

and I'd have thought my list would be 80s heavy, yet it's shaping up evenly distributed though the decades.

Pretty certain nothing I vote for will be post-1996, so ...

his “later years” ie the past 20 years or so has some really great treasures, highly recommend listening to any from that list

also: PSA: if you blew off Nocturama and No More Shall We Part as boring like I did when they came out, they really reward revisiting imo

I am sure you're right - there are definitely songs/albums that I didn't connect with when I first heard them (this is going back 20-30 years tbh) that later I came to love, so I figure the stuff from the later years will eventually.

count 67 albums/EPs all up including live ones.

a bit fudgy because several live albums are compilations, but I'm calling this 18 live releases, not counting the Shell Shock opera that Cave wrote (the libretto), the album of which was recorded on the premiere performance.

ffs i mean it either is 67 or it isnt

lift yr game sic

:D

LOL.

So from the above (XXXXXXP), The Birthday Party LP and the Hee Haw EP are fine. But no-one should be getting into messy vote-splitting territory with the 13-track Hee Haw which collects the contents of both, yeah?

that sounds right to me, although it's gonna be tough to cram both Mutiny! and The Bad Seed into my top 5 (well maybe 10)

20 tracks might kill me but i am up to the challenge

h8 when sic is inexact

it ruins my day

posting bc this clip has been touted as nick being mean to billy corgan but tbf he’s just being Australian

also reminds me of my first interview which went about this well also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X1LThFfA8U

those were stupid generic questions tbh and if his response is "being Australian" then that is a very sensible way to be imo ... people should be more Australian

Revisiting Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!! after probably 10 years and I’d forgotten how much it rips. “We Call Upon the Author” is a massive highlight this time around.

The Birthday Party LP

this is a singles comp (with two unreleased tracks) just as much as the Hee Haw compilation CD btw

(VG and mookie: two of the four Birthday Party Peel sessions were released as EPs in the 80s, but the other two only came out on the CD compilation in 2001; I counted each of the four as an EP for chronology's sake. I ask for neither forgiveness nor absolution, merely understanding)

YOU LET ME DOWN SIC idk what to tell u dog

wait it turns out there was an Australian Tour Edition of Love Letter that had four session tracks as the b-side! that counts as a live EP! just one more and I'll have made it up to you :(

too little too late imo

this is a singles comp (with two unreleased tracks) just as much as the Hee Haw compilation CD btw

It's a complete mess but the fact it has those further tracks and was released in the same year as "Happy Birthday", "Mr Clarinet" and "The Friend Catcher" (revisiting only 2/5 of the earlier Hee Haw EP) makes it way more album-y than the later compilation.

Anyway, I dig that era and will probably vote for any album-like release that ends up being allowed.

Suggest TuPOLLo for the results thread

^^^^^^^

TuPOLLooooooooooooo

this is a polling thread

a thread in which to poll

I Had A Dream POLL

way more album-y than the later compilation

yeah fair

this is a polling thread

a thread in which to poll

otm

Hamlet (POLL, POLL POLL)

so 67 releases to choose from ? Wow. any way of conveniently making that list visible? Then I'll just say we pick from those. otherwise there'll be ongoing doubt as to what makes the cut.

I don't strictly mind a whole deluge of live albums. I figure the more obscure ones won't get much of a look-in anyway, but it's nice to have the chice.

the CHOICE

I can ilx-format up the list, sure

side projects off the top...Cave did two duets with Anita Lane on

Anita's 1988 EP Dirty Sings has at least one Bad Seed on each track: A1 is written with Barry, who also plays bass; A2 is written with Nick; B1 is a cover of Lost In Music featuring Barry, Thomas and Nick (on organ); and B2 is written with Mick, who produced the record and probably plays on everything.

Nick also on backing vocals on "Lost In Music".

He also features on "Vixo" by Anni(e) Hogan from 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJZ_WW2wBZo

Nick also on backing vocals on "Lost In Music".

Yes, ta - a whole chorus of Seeds doing the hook, such as it is in that version iirc. The arrangement eschews nearly all the melodic elements in the original, leaning into the rhythm and counterpoint in the vocal lines, but so hard that Anita is basically grumbling and snarling counterpoint to herself while the blokes chant. Melody's no good to me!

(I was familiar with the Anita version before the Chic/Sledge original, and may not have returned to it since getting my disco ears)

I had always thought Nick's vocal was particularly prominent but listening again now and it indeed seems to be a chorus of Bad Seeds singing.

It's worth returning to - a perennial fave here.

abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus is really such an immense album, possibly my favourite. the band and cave's songwriting are both at something of a peak there, incredible playing and manages to nearly summarise their whole career up to that point in its wide range of styles, while still pushing into new territory with the gospel choir which works wonders.

agreed to me it's his peak no question

also really benefits from fantastic production which they hadn't really had very much up until that point

There were always jokes, kind of sly, sometimes kind of camp, but I want to say that "Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus" felt like the breakthrough when everyone realized Nick Cave was often being funny.

"Eurydice appeared brindled in blood
And she said to Orpheus
If you play that fucking thing down here
I'll stick it up your orifice!"

Grinderman and "Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!!" (which, yeah, is great) sort of continued in that vein, but for obvious reasons, perhaps, the last few have been less funny.

“There She Goes My Beautiful World” is a deep fave from Abbattoir Blues

more love for Abbatoir Blues / Lyre of Orpheus here - when it came out I was fairly over Nick Cave but I borrowed a friend's car and it was in the CD player and I was poleaxed by how good it was, you immediately had to recognise it as a great achievement

ever since then I've felt he was a next-level artist with an uncommon ability to still produce career-best work after decades at the coalface - i don't know his recent albums well enough to decide if they qualify, but Jubilee Street is right up there IMO

(I don't know how that song works! on paper i don't much like the lyrics and the riff is more from a blues-rock derived place than I usually prefer - and I think the recorded version is okay - but played live it is just immense! obviously it's the build, and the band's control of the build, but there's some other kind of alchemy at work - the "I'm vibrating / I'm transforming" bit really feels earned and hits home in some way that's beyond my comprehension)

There were always jokes, kind of sly, sometimes kind of camp, but I want to say that "Abbatoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus" felt like the breakthrough when everyone realized Nick Cave was often being funny.

Murder Ballads has several outright comedy songs, and he did three extremely serious / boring records afterward. But finished the last one with Babe, I'm On Fire, which packs more jokeyness into one song than most songwriter's careers, and then multiplies the silliness with the video.



((sidebar on the topic of Cave's 80s bandmates and their female associates faux-disdainfully covering the classics, I'll throw an off-topic mention to Barry, Mick, Genevieve McGuckin and Rowland & Lydia Lunch on Some Velvet Morning))

^^ big fave of mine, but yes not eligible

yeah "jubilee street" is a real highlight of the last decade, especially the live version which goes much further with its build in intensity. "higgs boson blues" is similarly great. push the sky away has a few tracks that are a little dull, but the rest is very very good. ghosteen is even better as an album and a real career high-point imo, it's the most beautiful music of his career, though it did take me a little while to get into with how reserved it is. the two epics on the second disc are especially powerful.

one of the things keeping me from really exploring Skeleton Tree and Ghosteen is the (presumed) emotional intensity - I guess I feel like they need a kind of sustained engagement that isn't part of my regular listening practice (well, re singer-songwriter stuff - will listen to "difficult" instrumental music for hours) - ie they don't feel like records you can just chuck on while you're folding the laundry

and ofc part of this is the inability to mentally separate the content of the records from the tragic circumstances of their creation - I feel sure they are impressive works but, as with sad films, I have to be in a particular frame of mind to take that journey

i don't find them to be that an intense a listen, not in the way that something like mount eerie's a crow looked at me is. most of skeleton tree was written & recorded before his son's death and so while that certainly thematically hangs over the already bleak tone of the album, only "i need you" was written afterwards and is probably the most direct about it. while ghosteen does actually deal with his son's death much more, it's still poetic about things in typical cave fashion so it's not an overwhelming listen. musically it's incredibly pretty, especially compared to skeleton tree's bleak tone, which helps balance out the lyrical material too. i have actually listened to it while cooking a fair bit.

I only gave each of them a "let's see what this is like" listen too, cautious of not having the fortitude to commit on a listening-to-lyrics level

anyway here's a list of 70 things that most people will consider as "albums or EPs with Nick Cave as a primary author"

*braces for formatting fuckup*

1979 Door, Door (BND LP)
1979 Hee Haw (BND EP)
1980 Peel Session 1 (BP CD 2001) LIVE
1980 The Birthday Party (BND/BP comp with two exc tracks and a rare b-side)
1981 Peel Session 2 (BP EP 1987) LIVE
1981 Prayers On Fire (BP LP)
1981 Peel Session 3 (BP EP 1988) LIVE
1982 Drunk On The Pope's Blood (BP live EP) LIVE
1982 Junkyard (BP LP)
1982 Peel Session 4 (BP CD 2001) LIVE
1982 Live 81-82 (BP live comp of 2 gigs) LIVE
1982 Honeymoon In Red (Lydia Lunch/BP LP 1987)
1983 Pleasure Heads Must Burn (BP live VHS (+ bonus tracks on DVD)) LIVE
1983 Mutiny! (BP EP)
1983 Burnin' The Ice (Die Haut LP w/ NC)
1983 The Bad Seed (BP EP)
1984 From Her to Eternity (Bad Seeds LP)
1985 The Firstborn Is Dead (Bad Seeds LP)
1986 Kicking Against the Pricks (Bad Seeds LP)
1986 Your Funeral... My Trial (Bad Seeds LP)
1988 Tender Prey (Bad Seeds LP)
1988 And The Ass Saw The Angel (audiobook EP)
1989 Ghosts ...Of The Civil Dead (OST by NC/MH/BB)
1990 The Good Son (Bad Seeds LP)
1990 Acoustic Versions Of Songs From "Tender Prey" Bad Seeds EP
1992 Henry's Dream (Bad Seeds LP)
1992 What A Wonderful World (Bad Seeds EP credited to NC & Shane McGowan)
1992 Live At The Paradiso (Bad Seeds live VHS/EP) LIVE
1993 Live Seeds (Bad Seeds live album) LIVE
1994 Let Love In (Bad Seeds LP)
1996 Murder Ballads (Bad Seeds LP)
1996 To Have And To Hold (OST by BB/NC/MH)
1996 The Flesh Made Word (reading on NC CD 2000)
1997 The Boatman's Call (Bad Seeds LP)
1998 The Secret Life Of The Love Song (Cave/Ellis/White/Stenger recording on NC CD 2000)
1998 Live at the Royal Albert Hall (Bad Seeds live album) LIVE
2001 No More Shall We Part (Bad Seeds LP)
2002 Love Letter "Westside Sessions" EP (Bad Seeds live EP) LIVE
2003 Nocturama (Bad Seeds LP)
2003 God Is In The House (Bad Seeds live DVD) LIVE
2004 Abattoir Blues (Bad Seeds LP)
2004 The Lyre of Orpheus (Bad Seeds LP)
2005 The Proposition (OST CD by NC & WE)
2007 Grinderman (GM LP)
2007 The Abattoir Blues Tour (Bad Seeds live album / DVD) LIVE
2007 The Assassination Of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford (OST CD by NC & WE)
2008 Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!! (Bad Seeds LP)
2008 iTunes Live: London Sessions (Bad Seeds live EP) LIVE
2009 The Death Of Bunny Munro (7CD+DVD audiobook w NC/WE score)
2009 The Road (OST CD by NC & WE)
2009 White Lunar (disc 2 misc scores by NC & WE)
2010 Grinderman 2 (GM LP)
2012 Lawless (OST CD by NC & WE Present The Bootleggers)
2013 Push the Sky Away (Bad Seeds LP)
2013 Live from KCRW (Bad Seeds live album) LIVE
2014 West Of Memphis (OST CD by NC & WE)
2015 Loin Des Hommes (OST CD by NC & WE)
2015 The Sick Bag Song (2LP audiobook, no score)
2015 Live At Hammersmith Apollo (NC live album) LIVE
2015 Live At The Royal Albert Hall (NC live album) LIVE
2016 Hell or High Water (OST CD by NC & WE)
2016 Skeleton Tree (Bad Seeds LP)
2016 Shell Shock (opera by Nicholas Lens & Nick Cave: World Premiere Recording - Royal Opera House, La Monnaie, 2CD) LIVE
2017 Mars (OST CD by NC & WE)
2017 War Machine (OST CD by NC & WE)
2017 Wind River (OST CD by NC & WE)
2018 Kings (OST CD by NC & WE)
2018 Distant Sky: Live in Copenhagen (Bad Seeds live film / EP) LIVE
2019 Ghosteen (Bad Seeds LP)
2020 Idiot Prayer (Nick Cave Alone at Alexandra Palace) (solo live album / film) LIVE

Bad Seeds LPs in bold so that folks who don't want to consider balloting anything else can skim

Something I've never quite been able to put my finger on is how Cave always seemed to play theaters or large clubs here (Chicago), up through "Dig, Lazarus, Dig!", but ever since then he's been playing huge venues, even arenas, of all places, ironically supporting his least likely room-filling albums, imo. I can't figure out what changed for him to go from decades of cult success to suddenly becoming a hot ticket at big places. (And yeah, I know the new songs work really well in those big rooms, against all odds, but the barnstormers do still blow things up bigger.)

my impression is it was mostly in europe where he's recently graduated into playing arenas, while he's still just playing large theatres/clubs etc. in the us mostly? i'm not quite sure exactly what it was either, but the huge critical success of skeleton tree probably had something to do with it, since it was really overwhelmingly acclaimed to a degree far beyond anything he'd done for a long time. seems like it was a relative commercial success too.

in Australia he took a big step up in venue size with Skeleton Tree too - to me it felt quite intentional, like playing bigger venues had probably been commercially viable for a while but they'd preferred playing in more intimate rooms?

I've been seeing Nick Cave shows (too!) regularly since Henry's Dream - and the Push The Sky Away show was in the smallest room I've ever seen him play (I think around 2000 capacity).

yeah afaik hes not doing that many arenas in the US (if any)

Hmm, looks like the postponed 2020 north american tour would have taken him to a few arenas in the usual places, plus larger places in smaller cities.

Here (in Glasgow) it took him around 25 years to go from playing 1000 - 2500 capacity venues. In 2015 he played to 2500 and then in 2017 he sold out a 13000 capacity venue.

ah was the rest of australia a step up in venue size for skeleton tree? here in brisbane he just played riverstage (a large amphitheatre), which is what he'd done the last few tours too. i wasn't able to see him though unfortunately. i hope it won't be too long before they tour ghosteen here if covid gets under control in the rest of the world next year.

I have (rescheduled) tickets to see him back at that 13000 capacity venue in April 2021 which seems highly likely to be rescheuled yet again.

also i do remember that his manager talked about how he'd made a concerted effort to market him as an iconic elder stateman of rock figure this decade and that effort certainly seemed to work

Looks like he's booked in arenas through spring 2021 in the UK.

My brother in law got me a shirt from Cave's show at the Sydney Opera House in ... 2016? That place is big, but not arena huge or anything, though I assume it was largely picked for the prestige (like Radio City Music Hall in NYC). Where does he normally play in a city like Sydney?

I wish I'd gone to see him live in like the mid aughts. that would have been the optimal time price/venue-quality balance period here

£4 first time I saw him. £70 now. Going by inflation should be around £12.50. :)

http://edinburghgigarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/nickcoasters85-1.jpg

i just checked and for the skeleton tree tour in 2017 he two nights at the international convention centre theatre (capacity 2500) and for the push the sky away tour in 2013 he played three nights at the sydney opera house concert hall (capacity approx. 2500) and one night at the enmore theatre (capacity 2500). he probably could have played a bigger venue in sydney in 2017 considering everywhere else in the country he was playing large arenas/amphitheatres, and i expect he will next time. he's also played a lot of solo tours in australia over the past decade, typically playing multiple dates at medium-sized theatres.

i saw him at the Warfield SF on the Dig Lazarus Dig tour. Fucking killer.

also saw him in 1997 at the Forum in Melbourne (Boatmans Call tour). Which was ~the best~ bc i was super early & got pole position front of stage & Nick randomly wandered out on stage before curtains AND FUCKING SAID HI TO ME

<3

listening to AB/DLD for the first time *ever*, uh yeah I have some catching up to do

sorry that's AB/LoO

XP to UFO - oh right, I thought the ICC theatre in Sydney 2017 was bigger, sorry! it's a weird room - very steep seating

my favourite NC gigs were boatman's call tour and abbatoir blues tour - great versions of the band both times, strong new album, they were fiery performances

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCwMPHYg7AU

probably won't vote for it but i do want to highlight this push the sky away outtake "animal x" which is build around this weird processed violin loop

The first (and thus far only) time I ever saw Nick Cave was at the Mann Center in Philly, an outdoors amphitheater that seats 13,000 which includes the lawn. They definitely had the lawn open though I have no idea if it sold out. Still a decent amount of people for a "cult" act.

when?

Where does he normally play in a city like Sydney?

Aside from all the accounts of 2500-sized venues, the one marker on his new project of Playing Big Venues (and not bothering to hit a city otherwise) was doing one of the first shows at a new convention centre with a 9,000 capacity in Jan 2017.

(The city's only downtown arena (cap 13,000), which was publicly owned, was torn down in order to drive usage 200m away to the new no-external-access venue owned by a multinational consortium of facilities management companies. So fuck that sellout prick!)

His No More Shall We-era "solo" (four-piece) shows, noted above, were at the extremely fancy 1920s-built State Theatre, cap 2000.

My times seeing the Bad Seeds in Sydney were at outdoor festivals: the BDO in Jan 1993, playing in the blazing summer sun to ...5,000? 20,000? My fellow goth teen schoolfriends and I were down the front, not turning around, and dashing off to see Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy spray angle grinder sparks over a few hundred ppl afterward. The band were on fire, but we rolleyed at Nick's tailored suits in the heat, and wondered if one could last the whole tour given his ritualistic knee-drop move every second song; and at Homebake Dec 2003, headlining at night to nearly the entire festival attendance of... 10k? 20k? The band were visibly even more on fire, but the mix was so bad that a couple hundred of us down the front were holding hands over our ears through each song, then screaming in unison through the gap between songs "TURN... THE BASS... DOWN!!!," to no avail. Nick was presumably singing, but it was impossible to tell. Gallon Drunk bloke in the lineup iirc.

xpost: the ICC is the 9,000 seater but aiui has different seating configurations

I saw Ry Cooder and Nick Lowe at the State Theater, that place was gorgeous, as I remember it.

First time I saw Cave was at Lollapalooza here, which would have been c. ... Let Love In? 1994? Super memorable. He went on either right before or right after L7 on that bill, I think.

xp i wasn't sure at first but read something that indicated it was the 2500 one? makes more sense if i got mixed up though

the BDO in Jan 1993

at the Sydney instalment - if memory serves (which tbh it doesn't always these days) - sonic youth encored with a knees up version of 'I wanna be yr dog', where they were joined by nick cave, blixa (I think?), steve turner and mark arm, and iggy pop

I remember thinking it was cool and kind of gross at the same time, and I guess I still feel that way now

I saw Ry Cooder and Nick Lowe at the State Theater

I was at that one! it's a lovely place to see shows, but doesn't seem to be booking anything interesting these days

the NC boatman's call show I mentioned earlier was there, and not long after he did a weird solo show there with warren ellis, Jim white and Susan Stengar on bass - it was pretty good, probably a subtler proposition than some of those "grinderman blasts the bad seeds" shows of 10 years ago

Saw 2 nights of The Boatman's Call tour here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_Hall_(Warsaw)
Maybe my favourite, absolutely my most memorable NC gigs - first night was madness, audience going crazy any time the tempo picked up; second night the venue got in a ton of extra security goons to force people back to their seats (which were reputedly designed to keep people upright and awake during communist speeches) & just STOP THE FUN. You could see Cave getting more and more frustrated with a room that felt dead. Late on - maybe as late as The Mercy Seat - he said something like "I don't know what's going on here, but I do know there are more of you than there are of them" and it just exploded, everyone up, charging forward and overwhelming the goons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf_zVzvYWuw

the live versions of "jubilee street" really are phenomenal

I remember a lot of converts from the Lollapalooza tour, that seemed to be the first bump in his reputation in the US. I know he brings it regardless, but I can’t imagine seeing him on an outdoor stage or even an arena. The music is so suited to a theater size stage and crowd. I suppose I’d just find the music better in certain ventures. (I saw a Siouxsie outside gig and that was just wrong)

I queued up for hours to see him at Montreux Jazz Festival a few years ago, so that I could get to the front. The hall wasn't massive but wasn't exactly small either. If you're anywhere close to the stage it doesn't matter whether you're in a theatre or an arena.

When I saw him touring "Dig, Lazarus, Dig!" I took a friend who had not only never heard Nick Cave, but had never heard *of* Nick Cave. He still talks about that show to this day.

I remember a lot of converts from the Lollapalooza tour, that seemed to be the first bump in his reputation in the US. I know he brings it regardless, but I can’t imagine seeing him on an outdoor stage or even an arena

ah yes, I remember sitting in traffic for 3-4 hours and missing his set, which was the one thing I really wanted to see that year. It was an outdoor venue (some former air base iirc which didn't usually have large events, hence the traffic problems) and he was on in the middle of the afternoon or early evening, but it was still light out. I think it was the time slot Ministry had in '92.

are any of the many bad seeds live releases particularly worth listening to? they've always seemed like they're better live than on record, never seeming to quite capture their live intensity on record until abattoir blues/the lyre of orpheus, which was mostly live-in-studio.

Live Seeds is essential, and was largely released as a corrective to Henry's Dream, on which Nick and Mick had hated the experience of working with Neil Young's producer. As noted earlier, the stripped-down versions of Push The Sky Away tracks on the KCRW album are also refined from the album, but in the other direction.




forgot to include All Tomorrow's Parties 2009 in the accounting of my outdoor Bad Seeds shows, when the whole band curated a festival spread across various spaces on an island in Sydney Harbour that was a convict penal facility in the 1800s, then (with some overlap) a shipbuilding / dockyard facility for over 130 years. I'd guess somewhere between 5 and 10k for that, with an audience heavily tilted toward middle-aged folks who sat at picnic tables in front of the main stage all day with the weekend newspapers, instead of wandering around to see The Saints, Spiritualized, Fuck Buttons, Harmonia, The Necks, Laughing Clowns, Robert Forster, James Blood Ulmer, Michael Gira, Afrirampo, Silver Apples, Bridezilla, The Stabs, Dead Meadow, Rowland S. Howard, The Reels, Psarantonis, Conway Savage, Beaches, Hunter Dienna, The Holy Sea, Hoss or Passenger of Shit, plus a small Louis Wain exhibition that was apparently Nick's contribution to the lineup.

Mick Harvey appeared to be gritting his teeth so hard a molar might pop during Warren & Nick's dancing around and humping each other throughout the set; three days later, he quit the band.

That seems like a good sub-poll, doesn't it? Best (Red) Right Hand Man? Mick, Barry, Blixa, Warren?

That's interesting - throw Rowland in there, and one can see that Cave has always had a foil, and you could group his albums by the contrasting personality. I suppose it's PJ on Boatman's Call.

ah yes, I remember sitting in traffic for 3-4 hours and missing his set, which was the one thing I really wanted to see that year. It was an outdoor venue (some former air base iirc which didn't usually have large events, hence the traffic problems) and he was on in the middle of the afternoon or early evening, but it was still light out. I think it was the time slot Ministry had in '92.

― sarahell, Friday, 27 November 2020 17:08 (yesterday) link

At about 2 in the afternoon in the middle of a blazing Minnesota summer Cave stalked on stage looking about ten feet tall and said "I wanna tell you about a girl" and proceeded to pin the crowd back for the next 30 minutes. They were terrifying and I had just seen the Boredoms like an hour before. Heady.

are any of the many bad seeds live releases particularly worth listening to? they've always seemed like they're better live than on record

there are undoubtedly still "unofficial" live recordings floating around -- totally worth it, well, I guess depending on your aesthetics re production and recording quality ...

also -- question for sic (or anyone really) -- did "Sad Dark Eyes" ever get put on an album proper, or was it just a cover song they did live?

xps Mick is the absolute definition of a perfect foil for just about everyone he works with

did "Sad Dark Eyes" ever get put on an album proper, or was it just a cover song they did live?

recorded for Kicking Against The Pricks but never released, but! Die Haut released a studio version with Mick singing in 1988 (on an album that also featured Kid Congo Powers, Anita Lane and Nick on vocals - the latter singing Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In) - and a Nick-sung version on their 1993 live album.

That seems like a good sub-poll, doesn't it? Best (Red) Right Hand Man? Mick, Barry, Blixa, Warren?

The thing is that his foil changed regularly - Tracy/Rowland, Anita, Blixa - but this affected the persona he was performing, or the character of the musical approach. His right-hand-man remained Mick for the best part of 30 years: writing nearly the entirety of the music in the course of doing the arrangements, staying sober and making sure the gigs got played no matter how fucked up everyone else was, doing most of the day-to-day management even when they paid someone 15% to talk to foreign labels twice a year...

Even though getting sidelined from this without acknowledgment must have rankled, and especially seeing Ellis suddenly get credit and publishing for the songwriting that Harvey had always done unpaid, he apparently only quit over dissatisfaction that the band was switching to doing the same simple rock-band greatest-hits performances*, instead of devising and rehearsing new arrangements for each tour.

*(that enabled Cave & Ellis to showpony over the top, one might editorially surmise)

All kinds of thanks for the album list, sic! I suspect that's gonna help out a lot of us.

I was present at that State Theatre show that's been mentioned in the thread. It was a very polished performance if a little underpowered. I do remember it directing my attention to what an excellent album Push The Sky Away was.

THere's live footage of the first headlining slot at the Electric Ballroom by the band I think advertised as the Cavemen, Filmed for Spanish tv. NIck forgets lyrics at several points but its a pretty good gig fro what I remember. First gig was supporting Nina Hagen at the Fridge i brixton which i didn't hear about until after.
Also I think from LA right around teh same time. Both of which were circulated on torrent sites etc

There's a Birthday Party show from Minneapolis that appears to be professionally filmed I think it shows footage fro at least 2 different cameras overlapping at points.

doing the same simple rock-band greatest-hits performances

I will say, when I saw "Distant Sky" (on a flight to Australia, come to think of it) it did feel a little phony (for lack of a better word) to see him and the band switch from "Skeleton Tree" and "Push the Sky Away" material to bursts of the hits. I mean, it was a great performance, but it did feel a little disjointed and superficial to me. Like the time I saw Mellencamp tour behind his folk-blues album, and it would be like low-key shuffling blues, low-key shuffling blues, subdued folk, R.O.C.K. IN THE USA! Or something like that. I do think when you *are* playing arenas, you're compelled to bust out the barnstormers. Yeah, they're better in clubs (everything is better in a club), but that's what they're designed to do, to ignite the tinder of a big crowd who by nature will always be more familiar with the hits than with the new stuff.

I did dig the fist time I saw Griderman, when they did iirc an all-Grinderman set and then a brief encore of Bad Seeds hits, except they were performed by the pared down group, seemed pretty unrehearsed and (relatively) sloppy and, in turn, felt like the rare, spontaneous encore rather than the pro forma leave the stage, come back and pretend it's not just the rest of the set routine.

Yeah, the Dirty 3 ATP that kind of felt like a launch party for Grinderman had a whole show by the small band (advertised as a solo Nick show) and was one of the best Bad Seeds shows I'd seen in a long time just because it had the sort of new arrangements Mick had been arguing for.

So my own story I suppose is that having seen the Bad Seeds since very early on I got to be a bit ambivalent after Let Love In came out and really didn't care for Nocturama at all - to the point where I remember being surprised at the use of O Children in that Harry Potter film and assuming it was just something I had never paid any attention to. Went through a bit of a revision and got up to speed then it sort of happened again immediately after not being bothered by Dig Lazarus Dig and picking back up after Skeleton Tree. And I've done it again, not even listened to Ghosteen for reasons I can't really work out.

The live shows are still worth it and the arena show was good but weird after so long in normal venues and it felt like Nick As Cult had taking over events to a degree.

Very sympathetic to Harvey on the live-hits issue - the times I've seen them late-noughties onwards they've felt a less interesting band. Still a great setting for a great frontman, but in a lot of arrangements(*) some build or dynamic felt lacking. First felt it I think at Hammersmith Apollo in about 2008 - Deanna seemed a bit rote and flat, the tumbling-over-itself chaos just wasn't there. I can see the live shows still work, but they don't quite work for me - always entertained, never astonished.

(*)If you'd asked me at the time I think I would have jogged round various explanations - he's getting old, I'm getting old, demonic spirit has gone, no Blixa - but after hearing Harvey's complaint I suspect that his being sidelined is the core of it.

i'd really forgotten how great DLD!!! is, really krauty with lots of noise.

I thought the Hammond grooves helped with categorising the Bad Seeds as a mod band that and the bespoke suits.

Though may just reflect Cave loving Larry Young. I 5hink he said Grinderman was heavily influenced by Lawrence of Newark.

What is your view on the BBC decision on censorship of certain words in Fairytale of New York this Christmas?
JOSEPH, THE HAGUE, HOLLAND

What is your view on the BBC 'amendments' to Fairytale of New York?
ROY, LINLITHGOW, SCOTLAND

Dear Joseph and Roy,

Truly great songs that are as emotionally powerful as Fairytale of New York are very rare indeed. Fairytale is a lyrical high wire act of dizzying scope and potency, and it rightly takes its place as the greatest Christmas song ever written. It stands shoulder to shoulder with any great song, from any time, not just for its sheer audacity, or its deep empathy, but for its astonishing technical brilliance.

One of the many reasons this song is so loved is that, beyond almost any other song I can think of, it speaks with such profound compassion to the marginalised and the dispossessed. With one of the greatest opening lines ever written, the lyrics and the vocal performance emanate from deep inside the lived experience itself, existing within the very bones of the song. It never looks down on its protagonists. It does not patronise, but speaks its truth, clear and unadorned. It is a magnificent gift to the outcast, the unlucky and the broken-hearted. We empathise with the plight of the two fractious characters, who live their lonely, desperate lives against all that Christmas promises — home and hearth, cheer, bounty and goodwill. It is as real a piece of lyric writing as I have ever heard, and I have always felt it a great privilege to be close friends with its creator, Shane MacGowan.

Now, once again, Fairytale is under attack. The idea that a word, or a line, in a song can simply be changed for another and not do it significant damage is a notion that can only be upheld by those that know nothing about the fragile nature of songwriting. The changing of the word ‘faggot’ for the nonsense word ‘haggard’ destroys the song by deflating it right at its essential and most reckless moment, stripping it of its value. It becomes a song that has been tampered with, compromised, tamed, and neutered and can no longer be called a great song. It is a song that has lost its truth, its honour and integrity — a song that has knelt down and allowed the BBC to do its grim and sticky business.

I am in no position to comment on how offensive the word ‘faggot’ is to some people, particularly to the young — it may be deeply offensive, I don’t know, in which case Radio 1 should have made the decision to simply ban the song, and allow it to retain its outlaw spirit and its dignity.

In the end, I feel sorry for Fairytale, a song so gloriously problematic, as great works of art so often are, performed by one of the most scurrilous and seditious bands of our time, whose best shows were so completely and triumphantly out of order, they had to be seen to believed.

Yet, time and time again the integrity of this magnificent song is tested. The BBC, that gatekeeper of our brittle sensibilities, forever acting in our best interests, continue to mutilate an artefact of immense cultural value and in doing so takes something from us this Christmas, impossible to measure or replace. On and on it goes, and we are all the less for it.

Love, Nick

someone should write in and tell him Roy was not asking an accurate question in good faith

reminds me of my sadly passed Gran who felt the same about the removal of The Black & White Minstrel Show from xmas

btw, if folks looking to do some random relistening don't know, there's an official 24-hour "Bad Seed TeeVee" channel on youtube - video clips, live performances and doco excerpts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbWdmZ7hXY4

had never actually bothered to listen to nocturama before due to its bad rep and it's definitely one of his weakest albums. "babe i'm on fire" is fantastic but the rest is a real drag, some of it the most adult contemporary he's ever been, and it doesn't hold together well as an album at all.

from memory no more shall we part wasn't much chop either - I remember those two LPs back to back marked a real low point in my engagement with his music

on the other hand preparing a response for this poll reminded me of this (IMO) gem - if I were nick cave this would be a setlist regular!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzp8I-naJOg

which in turn reminds me of the song he did with tim friese-greene for the batman forever soundtrack which I've heard him say was the one time he made a corrupt sellout songwriting decision and vowed never to do so again... at the time I kind of liked it but it's a shit nick cave song I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D17Tih8B-z0

no more shall we part isn't a favourite of mine either but there's hints of where they went on abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus on it and it generally sounds more alive

Funnily enough "...Till the End of the World" was the pretty much the first thing on my shortlist. The carnage in the verses (and the delivery of it) is arguably kinda preposterous, but that may have been the appeal for schoolkid me.

it’s always been a huge favorite of mine

My #1 will either be "Mercy Seat" or this motherf***er:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26qQ4ciy-QA

Amazing how many great covers he's recorded. 'Kicking Against the Pricks' definitely makes my ballot. In terms of tracks, "Stagger Lee" and this Johnny Cash cover will place high on mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgffYJO_Qfs

I love his version of “Running Scared”. And “Long Black Veil”. And “Somethings Gotten Hold of My Heart”

ok fine the whole album is a+

in case folks don't know, they did an 18-minute version of O'Malley's Bar on a BBC radio session in '96, that's on the B-Sides & Rarities box

Cave's catalogue includes several dozen covers outside of Pricks btw, right up to this contribution to a T-Rex tribute album from six months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc7mDChiiNU

(Jon Wurster on drums,btw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJW1zG_GMAc

It's ridiculous, and I love it

As I re-listen to the disappointing albums, I can confirm "God Is in the House" is the worst song he's ever written. Cave's songs are at their best when it hard to determine what he thinks of the characters, including himself. Jello Biafra-levels of easily digested irony and sarcasm just blow his whole game.

my vote for worst song is "the curse of millhaven" which is totally insufferable for its entire 7 minutes. it's just circus music and really did not need a total of thirteen choruses. i would hate it enough if it was just a normal length but it really has to drag things out. "god in the house" is pretty bad though yeah

today i realised the krautrock + organ + noise makes dig lazarus dig!!! almost a stereolab album

......I like "The Curse of Millhaven", it's fun

I'm not sure what the worst Nick Cave song is but I'm pretty confident it's on Nocturama.

It's Rock of Gibraltar, without a moment's hesitation.

narrowing down to 20 songs is hard, gonna have to really go with my gut

I haven't really needed to hear "Curse of Millhaven" since high school but I have fond memories of it. I was listening to Lyre of Orpheus and I do not get the title track at all, some very nice songs later on the album though.

Big fan of this, always cracks me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZAarUlIhn0

20 songs is tough

Wee feature in the FT today on his "Cave Things" shop

https://www.ft.com/content/3b360711-b18b-43da-b4de-36dbb0d40bd1

Always immaculately tailored, he has been described as “the greatest living songwriter” by Flea of the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

^^^ this made me laugh considering Nick is famously quoted with

I’m forever near a stereo saying, ‘What the fuck is this garbage?’ And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

lmao

I would be curious to hear Nick cover "Give it Away"

very easy to imagine "What I got I gotta give it to your momma" etc over the intro to "Get It On"

I'm pretty sure Flea understands that his band is the butt of many jokes and the object of much derision. I read his book, and the dude is pretty hip, has good taste and is obviously a good musician, yet he'll forever be tainted as a member of the Monsters of Mook. It's kind of tragic.

Nearly all of Flea's recording and performing endeavours outside of the Chi-Peps show him to have fine and interesting taste.

"god in the house"

as a pretty regular seeing nick cave live kinda guy, this song becoming a setlist staple has been both inexplicable and unbearable

......I like "The Curse of Millhaven", it's fun

I love Curse of Millhaven too. It being simply Henry Lee speeded up gives it additional poignancy the lyrics perhaps don't warrant. I feel moved by this psychopathic stock character brought to life just to have (very) comical rhymes hung off her, which is a trick he pulls off multiple times on Murder Ballads. Saw it in an encore at Brixton in the early 2000s - that was a thrilling few minutes.

well I made it like four tracks into Ghosteeen, that album is soporific in a bad way

completely blown away by AB/LoO and DLD, so I think it's a win overall in terms of catching up

Skeleton Tree is uninspiring as well but not as boring as the new one

as per sic's great post above, it turns out that my favorite thing about Nick Cave might have been Mick Harvey

As I re-listen to the disappointing albums, I can confirm "God Is in the House" is the worst song he's ever written. Cave's songs are at their best when it hard to determine what he thinks of the characters, including himself. Jello Biafra-levels of easily digested irony and sarcasm just blow his whole game.

And I like God is in the House too! The whole of No More Shall We Part (as the title suggests) is about the weirdness of being domesticated. Maybe a few years earlier this would have been a straightforwardly sarcastic song, but from As I Sat Sadly By Her Side onwards the guy's writing songs about becoming a bit like the kind of people who are in God is in the House. Sitting indoors, judging the neighbours, scared of the world. He's hamming it up, for sure, as usual, but I don't think it's clear at all what he thinks of the characters in God is in the House - he kinda gets where they're coming from!

well I made it like four tracks into Ghosteeen, that album is soporific in a bad way

I haven't been a fan of latter-day Nick Cave in general, and this one sticks out because it's ranked so high in the year-end polls. Except for Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!! (which was like a revitalization after the shot in the arm from Grinderman), a lot of the later stuff sounds much less compelling to me even when the inspiration has been credited to harrowing circumstances. I'll give them another chance after this poll - I'm curious to see what makes the best tracks portion.

my take:

a lot of the later stuff sounds much less compelling to me even especially when the inspiration has been credited to harrowing circumstances

no more shall we part is kind of a slog (same with boatman, to be really real), but there are two or three of his very best songs nestled on there, including "as i sat sadly by her side" imo

If sleeve ever covers "Moon Song," he's swapping out the Clapton lyrics with Cave references.

I'm glad I have no idea what that means

I admire Boatman more than I love it. Some great tracks, but it doesn't really sustain itself from end to end.

it does have "lime tree arbour," which is one of his very best ballads

Brompton Oratory one of my alltime favorites -i love Boatman’s Call so much

and There is A Kingdom is great too!

I love "Brompton Oratory," that's going on my ballot. I think it's great in small doses, but it feels a bit lacking when I listen to all 52+ minutes of it. The music is fairly minimal, which actually puts more burden on basic stuff like the tunes, the lyrics, etc. and it's tough building a whole album around that, so my hat's off to him for trying.

um that record easily has three of my top ten on it, none of which have been mentioned. and generally I prefer rocking Seeds! but those songs are undeniable IMO.

as a whole-record listen, yes is is a sloggy overlong breakup album, but the highs are so high for me (personal associations noted)

The beginning 6 song run on Boatman’s Call is so good. “Lime Tree Arbour” will definitely make the shortlist.

i always think of Boatman as a collection of secular hymns
i dont know if its exactly what he was going for
def v ...reverential? vibes

also reminds me VERY specifically of that year & the boring suburban house i was renting & listening to the album nonstop staring at my bedroom wall

it's a breakup album for me, hence its power

i found ghosteen to be very dull on first listen until i got to the second disc which has more movement and then the rest of the album completely opened up to me and now it's solidly my second favourite album he's ever done, only just behind abbatoir blues/lyre of orpheus

boatman's call has never quite clicked with me though, it's got some very good moments but as a whole it's a bit much. not bad but not yet a favourite either

also reminds me VERY specifically of that year & the boring suburban house i was renting & listening to the album nonstop staring at my bedroom wall

LMAO, I can see it being especially good on a loop under those circumstances.

it's a breakup album for me, hence its power

Weird seeing that after you put down his mournful albums for being soporofic, but regardless, I will agree it's moving for that reason

breakup != death of child

the first happened to me, the second happened to Cave, to be clear

the reason I like Boatman is because it mirrored my life at that time, the songs stay with me. I don't have the same emotional investment in his later work.

Amazing how many great covers he's recorded.

afaict there are twice as many compilation albums of "songs that Nick Cave covered (or liked)", as tribute albums covering his own songs

(one album commissioning covers, two recordings of tribute concerts.)

covers should be a side poll

I was thinking about making a list and suggesting that

I would appreciate it, he has so many good originals that I have no room for the covers

some covers he does are so good that he completely makes them own. "wanted man" is his "all along the watchtower".

Love his cover of Disco 2000.

(Forgot he did two! The slow one obviously.)

One my fave covers, Nick & Warren going all Grinderman on the Gatlin Bros for True Detective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPMvXBOAaI

having a separate covers poll would be great!

ok The Abbatoir Blues Tour is their best live album for sure, it's touring their best album, not as muddy as live seeds, the band is in top form (that version of "red right hand"!), and there's great backing vocals!

Would be totally up for a cover's side poll. His delivery of "Long Time Man" was the first time I got anything but macho posturing out of a kill-my-woman song. I felt the lack of control the character had over his emotions, the heartfelt regret, the acceptance of personal evil.

Now that I think about it, when the song clicked for me, Cave created same chill I felt during a "scared straight" session in high school where they brought in some inmates to talk about their experience, and after an hour of hearing these well-spoken if haggard men talk about life inside, they revealed their crimes. One of them had killed his wife and kid during a freebasing binge.

"Mutiny in Heaven" created a similar chill on first listen. I've gotten it from Jubilee Street. At his best, he transcends theatrics.

Man, I just had a magical memory moment. I put on "Abattoir Blues/Lyre of Orpheus," which the streaming service began with "Abattoir Blues." First, I have no idea why but I always listened to "Lyre of Orpheus" first; maybe based on where the CD was slipped in the sleeve? Second, because the service played that album second I had moved on to washing the dishes, but then I heard the flute that starts "Breathless" and I suddenly remembered I put it on a mix of really pretty songs for my wife to listen to when she was pregnant and ready to give birth to my first daughter (who is now 16). I hadn't heard the song in years. Very special.

An additional point about Mick Harvey's essential role: that he would unfussily take whatever position in the band was vacant at the time. Tracy's in jail? Okay, Mick will do bass and we'll have one guitar. Everyone hates the drummer enough that he's staying in Australia this time? Mick will be the drummer for, oh, three years. Barry Adamson has got a solo deal? Mick can be the bassist for five years. The Triffids have split up so Martyn Casey is available? Back to guitar and organ and writing string arrangements for Mick.

Yeah, Harvey's ever shifting roles are fascinating. Were he more than a competent vocal presence I think his solo albums would be pretty impressive.

oof i may be too close to the deadline to relisten to the catalog or deliver a ballot but i'm very happy to read all of these positive posts about abattoir blues/lyre of orpheus in a row, that record was huge for me in my senior year of high school/freshman year of college

that same year of college i got heavy into no more shall we part and i still love every song on that record even tho it could and should be shorter yes

the results will be interesting as it seems like there are quite a number of millennial ilxors voting in this ... I also realized that I don't have Tender Prey on my iPod, which might actually be my favorite? (see also: records that were huge for me in high school).

still wondering if we can do a covers side poll

yeah somehow i have every album but The Good Son i had it on cassette & wore it out, no idea why i never got it on cd wtf

(xpost)

I give us permission to do the covers side poll

not 100% sure how a covers side poll would work, given you can obviously choose covers for the Bad Seeds & non-Bad Seeds polls (which will ideally give us an understanding of how we rank/ interpret them)?

happy to accept separate lists of covers if we want to go down that path though.

there's just so many good originals! thank you for accepting my list

yah the covers poll idea is to free up lists (and listening) for all originals this time. I'm happy to run one separately after this is over, if that's simpler?

yeah, let's have this main poll be originals only, and then do a separate covers poll - and I nominate sic to run it!

only problem there (which may not be a problem) is that there are already a couple of covers (not many) that have crept into ballots for the main polls so far. i guess we're ok for me to take those out?

I would suggest that those voters be allowed to revise their ballots and replace the covers with other songs

good call -- I'll put the word out.

there are several edge cases of course - Henry Lee and Stagger Lee are probably valid for either poll

btw Cave has managed to release another new album since I posted that list eight days ago

(an opera written during lockdown: a libretto of 12 litanies for composer Nicholas Lens)

i think it's fine to include covers in the main poll anyway, just that there's enough to highlight them separately too since. if any are able to place in the main poll, let them

agree, would prefer to also include covers in my main poll.

ok sweet! to avoid ongoing confusion, we'll include covers in the main polls. I don't think this will really take anything away from a dedicated covers poll once we're done.

yup. i'd love to vote in a dedicated covers poll later.

yeah that seems like the reasonable approach. I can make the followup a hybrid listening thread / poll for variation too.

Were (Harvey) more than a competent vocal presence I think his solo albums would be pretty impressive.

(I've bounced off his singer-songwriter stuff to the tiny degree I've tried. I wonder how much it's his understated vocal personality, and how much that he just thrives better anonymously arranging / playing / producing most of other people's projects. Outside of the Bad Seeds/Birthday Party he's maybe done a plurality of the members' side projects: playing most of the instruments on the early Crime & The City Solution records and staying in the band throughout that version's lifespan; producing and playing nearly every recording Anita made; working on Rowland's two solo records; drumming and pianning on occasional adjunct Seed Brian Hooper's latter solo records. As well as other absurdly long-running relationships as unheralded sideman/arranger, like playing on all but two PJ Harvey records, and most of her tours, since before her one song with the Seeds; working on Bambi Lee Savage records and gigs for thirty years... Plus the Serge Gainsbourg records* landed better with me, where he's writing the lyrics and the arrangements and playing all the instruments and doing most of the singing but it's all in service of someone else's authorship!)

* the two '90s ones, I haven't heard the more recent two.

Harvey’s final Gainsbourg album is a treat.

Roughly a week left to vote!

gosh I really better start listening to Nick Cave again, right? but he's never been a casual listen for me, so it's hard!

Cave turned up as one of the questions on University Challenge last night. Teams only just recognising the Mercy Seat. Young whippersnappers omigosh.

narrowing down my current shortlist of ~30 tracks to 20 is going to be very very difficult, his catalogue is really ridiculous in how consistent it is.

Cave turned up as one of the questions on University Challenge last night. Teams only just recognising the Mercy Seat. Young whippersnappers omigosh.

Also a specialist subject on Mastermind.

keep missing Mastermind.
When was the show. this week or a couple of weeks ago or what.
I came in for teh 2nd round this week and had gone to see it at teh timmeslot I'd expected it to be in last week only to find it had shifted forward half an hour. & before taht had just forgotten it was on each week from the start of this season.

Mastermind was last night, second contestant.

right, which one was 2nd. couldn't tell from 2nd round.
would guess from those i saw that it was the guy who didn't do very well.

Guy in the blue check shirt.

it looked like he was a bit taken aback by how badly he did.

Maybe he's a fan of the other Nick Cave and was confused by all the questions about music.

Ha ha!

Really loving the string arrangements on “The Good Son” this listen through

I revisited The Boys Next Door ‘Door Door’ album this afternoon & half the album is gonna be on my sideprojects ballot lol

i listened to it a ton in my uni days, brings back so many memories.

one thing i will say for Nick & all of his bands is that the music always has such ~great~ texture, even way back w Boys Next Door.
talented cunts the lot of them!

and def sing the praises of producer/maniac/wild genius Tony Cohen (RIP) - he worked on almost everything from Boys Next Door through No More Shall we Part (which is even more amazing considering how nuts he (and they) were through a lot of that early period)

ballot sent!

20 songs was brutal, i already hate my ballot lol

Dive Position!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_l1zV3kTXQ

OTM

I think its one side pre RSH and one side after he joined isn't it?
Do like their thing in those early days. That 5 piece side and the material later released as BIrthday party but recorded before teh name change.
Especially the skittering psychedelic jitterfunky stuff that's out on the Hee Haw cd.

He'd guested onstage with them (and recorded an unreleased duet at that side-one session) but hadn't joined, yep.

Here's a fanzine review written by Rowland about nine months before he joined the band.

Especially the skittering psychedelic jitterfunky stuff that's out on the Hee Haw cd.

― Stevolende, Wednesday, December 9, 2020 2:35 AM (twelve hours ago)

Okay, you've sold me! (i mean, not that much was necessary, but y'know, making coversation)

I had an appointment that I had to commute to this morning & listened to Boatman’s Call in its entirety there & back - the perfect accompaniment for a cold sunny morning’s drive <3

Brompton Oratory in particular seems to require that perfect time of day for me.

i am inclined to agree now!

https://consequenceofsound.net/2020/12/nick-cave-erotic-wallpaper/

lmao i bet at this point he’d be annoyed if someone bought it

Are we counting “Do You Love Me?” and “Do You Love Me? (Part 2)” as separate songs?

i say no, to leave space for another song on my ballot lol

No, I think we won't treat Do You Love Me as two separate songs for the purpose of counting votes. I suppose it couldn't hurt to specify which version you're voting for, but don't include both on your ballot.

What about The Hammer Song?

if they’re separate tracks they should be treated as such surely but thats just me idk

sidebar i hope this is just a thought exercise bc i want to know why u would vote for a) both or b) part 2 in a TWENTY SONG BALLOT FFS

space is precious!

counterpoint:

jingle

JANGLE

lol

Xxxp

I was asking more in the “Morning Bell” vs “Morning Bell/Amnesiac” sense that they sound unique enough to my ears that they could be considered separate. I wouldn’t put both on my ballot.

That being said, “Do You Love Me? (Part 2)” > “Do You Love Me?”

My provisional Bad Seeds ballot is not something I would predicted. Turns out I really like a bunch of relatively low-key tracks I previously struggled to conjure in my head from their titles. Plus Your Funeral -- I heart pretty much all of that, but I guess I already knew that much.

^ "not somehing I would HAVE predicted"

i tried to mail my ballot in but it bounced back. not sure why. any chance you can clarify the email address?

Of courtse to be totally topical as soon as you;ve reached any kind of consensus any voting needs to be overturned.
NOt that anybody else's opinion is that relevant to my understanding of what I enjoy about him anyway.

& of course any other artist would have made things a lot easier to break down their career by changing the bandname with some kind of frequency over 3 decades. Blooming maverick ex-pat ex-public schoolboy ozzies, whatever next.

scrap that. it must have been a glitch - went through that time (hopefully)

i pushed the songs i wanted to get more votes to the top of my ballot but in retrospect it may backfire w a 20 song ballot

my side project voting ended up being only boys next door & birthday party, i couldnt spare room for grinderman! it just totally paled for me up against all that cool old stuff

ALRIGHT FOLKS

after several weeks poking at it, I've broken down, ordered and ID3-tagged the Bad Seeds-era b-sides and side-appearances into an eleven-disc* virtual box set. Now to start listening properly, and then on to the albums!

* if actually pressing this, we could save money by putting "Scum & Pricks '84-86" and "Dirty Sings '88" onto one disc. But I've also made a disc each of live B-sides, alternate takes, and 7" versions, that I shan't be considering for the poll.

lmao pvmic <3

"Scum" sure as hell made my ballot!

otfm

Scum is an entertaining song, but so irredeemably & unjustifiably vicious toward Snow and Gambotto that I couldn't commend it

I voted for "Scum". I can almost pretend it's Mark E Smith singing, with that kind of subject matter and delivery-uh.

So, I think we’re down to the last day or so for voting. I’ll be loose with it if it means more ballots.

Please keep ‘em coming!

I'll dawdle as long as we can, for one.

also onimo's first act on waking up from cancer surgery the other day was to post to the "fuck cancer" thread his regret that he might not be able to put a ballot together

well, I’m certainly happy to ride this out as long as we need to (I still have a lot of listening to do, myself).

It’s been a Push the Sky Away day today.

If this could be extended for a few days I’d appreciate it!

Really digging “Nocturama” this time around- Warren Ellis is particularly has a great showcase through it. Back 3 tracks are probably not that great but doesn’t seem any worse than some of the material on AB/TLoO.

Also for results thread title suggestions:

POLLIX! POLLIX! NOTHING A PAIR OF SCISSORS CAN’T FIX!

I don't believe in an interventionist POLL

in a way i'm yearning done with all this tallying of votes

an eye for an eye and POLL for a POLL

I had a POLL, Joe

Babies Being Born Without POLLS: The Mad Heat and the Relentless RESULTS

And The POLLS Ran Red Around Me / A Warm Arterial Spray

Poppa won't POLL you Henry

((jangle)) do you POLL me?

This is a POLL, and this is a gun

lol at all of this!

POLLIN doo dah doo, doo dah doo, doo dah do

omg hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah <3

:D

I'm NOT Going to Tell You About a POLL

If I may be obvious, The Boatman's POLL should be the title of something at least once in its life.

might as well go with A Box for Black POLL

Results in the frost, TuPOLLo's shame, TuPOLLo's shame

There She Goes, My Beautiful POLLL

But when I POLL into your arms
Everything, it comes tumbling down

Miley Cyrus floats in a swimming POLL

Your Funeral, My POLL

Okay I'm not gonna wait for another 25 posts for this :

The Name of the POLL Is a Thread Long-Suffering

Your Funeral, My POLL

tough to beat, imo

Stag said, “Well, just count the POLLS in the motherfucker’s head”

oooh thats good

Very inspired work re. results title suggestions.

As long as I can bang all this out by Christmas, I don’t mind extending voting for a couple more days.

So keep listening & sending in the ballots!

monstrous bass playing on so many of these Birthday Party tracks. always identified it as the nucleus of the band's sound, but kinda needed the reminder.

That bassist had funny habits, I always thought you felt the bass more than heard it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvlS4BwTUQw

that clip is positively amazing. love how Mick just stands there quietly offsetting everything.

that clip is the best. god i miss rowland and tracey.

would love it if there was a lot more visual stuff available.
Good that the Minneapolis set appeared. I think the band thought their US tour almost immediately prior to eventual implosion was their peak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljli8UR1-b0

Gotta love a band that goes out at its peak.

Still time to vote! Would be great to get a few more.

yes, my ballot is coming

Awesome!

Voted!

Appreciated !

sent

sorry to dip in last minute, but is there still time to submit something? i am a level B nick cave + pals fan, looking forward to the roll-out and it would be awesome to be rooting for a few faves in particular!

yes, I'm keeping it open for a bit. not because I'm super busy or anything, but so that everybody has a chance to submit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P23a2-L7Ixc

still working on mine, but will submit before i go to bed (1 to 3 hours from now)

voted!

going to bed!

Nice — thanks!

Still pretty loose on calling time on voting. Let’s say 24 hours from now ?

Also, question:

Should I split the votes for Do You Love Me & Do You Love Me (Part 2)? I think it was pretty clear in the end as to which version voters were preferencing in their ballots.

For the Neil Young poll they combined “Tonight’s the Night” and “Tonight’s the Night (Part 2)” fwiw. Maybe breakdown splits if you go that route?

actually, Tonight's the Night is a great point of reference. Think I'll combine 'em & as you say, spell out how the votes landed.

I love em both so I’m ok with combining!

could we have until Sunday to vote?

sent

I was actually hoping to start the rollout on either Friday or Sunday. the only reason being that things might get tight for me if we get too close to Christmas (it's going to be a quick roll out in any case).

Can you bang one out by Saturday morning, sarahell ?

And running after Xmas, nearer the height of ILX's EOY shenanigans, is... less than ideal. The voting period has been generously proportioned methinks. #UnsolicitedOpinions

Yeah - Saturday I can do -- thanks!

No problem!

So of course this means, you can all keep submitting till Saturday. and the rollout will be very shortly after that.

Well, I wasn't planning on sending a ballot as I'd say Nick's post-Birthday Party work is pretty minor in importance to me, but I was able to manage 20 songs barely, and probably included a lot more covers than most of you. As good as the BP were - if not quite a top ten post punk band overall, still possibly the very best of the really noisy side of art-damaged post punk - I find his self-important bellowing less intriguing without Roland and Tracey channeling his intentions into truly nasty intensity (which Nick only matched live). None of the bad seeds albums really hold up for me from start to finish apart from Kicking Against the Pricks, which is one of the all-time great covers albums, ranging as it does from sometimes headscratching song choices and production ideas that illuminate both the singer and the songs, to heartfelt tearjerker oldies like Long Black Veil and By The Time I Get to Phoenix that for my money accomplish better what he would seem to be trying to do with most of his hard to distinguish mopey underwritten droning ballads that make up seemingly 60% of his recorded output afterward.

So for me this is a Birthday Party poll (and you gotta vote for Shivers in there somewhere) with a bonus challenge of picking what you would keep from his later career. Don't get me wrong, it's a career that offers way more than the astonishingly lame diminishing returns of 95% of post punk bands past their 2nd or 3rd album; he's no Mark E. Smith or Talking Heads or Sonic Youth or Mekons or the Cure, but 20 songs I like is way more than, say, how many songs I like by later reformed Wire, reformed Gang of Four, post Swell-Maps Epic & Nikki, and post-Juju Banshees, all added up and combined. So he gets points for perseverance. And while I feel he has a lot of underwritten material and little quality control or ability to drastically vary his sound apart from occasionally wanting to get a raunchy rockin' sound without really bothering to have good riffs or a decent rhythm section that adds any interest, the bare bones of his compositions do sometimes make me marvel at some moments of sublime beauty I wouldn't expect from the weird looking caveman-poet dude from the birthday party. Moments that recall 1960s bacharach, like the ba-ba ba-ba vamping backing vocals from Slowly Goes the Night, or how the sliding steel that opens his beautifully unmannered and centered improvement CSNY's Helpless presages the riff from Fade Into You.

What's so interesting - it used to be frustrating, but you know you get older and your tolerance for boring music goes way up - is how what makes a good Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds track good is so utterly unlike the ecstatic pleasures of the vastly superior band where he got his start. When he found the groove in Swampland to integrate his shriek into like a squawking Dolphy solo, or just barely grips the octave up at the end of the chorus of She's Hit, he's an inspired singer employing the awkward instrument of his voice in the service of the demented dramatic situation he's trying to evoke. And he's finding all these interesting things to do with his voice and lyrics in songs that have such memorable grinding yet catchy Fall-like repetitive songs that then have the juddering bass and skronk turned up higher than the Fall seemed to even understand was possible. It reminds me a bit of how different the pleasures of New Order are from Joy Division, but you have an obvious reason for the difference there... Nick did sort of commit an artistic suicide or at least an amputation when he decided he needed to kill off or cut out his demented songbook of fantastic early triumphs, never to play any of them in his ensuing 37 years, and only to occasionally summon that sound in a lumbering tuneless echo in (my opinion) boring albums like Dig Lazarus Dig and Grinderman. One can imagine if he had not renamed the band, that he could grandly baffle an audience with a solo piano dirge rendition of King Ink, or sometimes close a show with a raveup revival of Hamlet Powpowpow that would have no reason for existing without the bass riff that seems to float over the skitting melee of the drums and vocal outbursts at seeming fisticuffs with each other. It's good that such things don't occur to him, they would be a travesty in a way. Or correct me if I'm wrong and he does play a few of those tunes... Jennifer's Veil would certainly be sturdy enough for him to 'cover'.

I think you're selling Roland and Tracy really short there, they weren't just "channeling his intentions" and that's why the name didn't continue and why his solo work is different. imo.

Rowland & Tracy were both such astonishing talents that any music bearing their names was going to be a vehicle for their individuality no matter their adherence to completing a particular sound or aesthetic.

I agree with you mig that Cave frequently underwrites & is lax on quality control. but I do think the miss is as important as the hit when it comes to assessing his work. that is to say, there are moments when a more studied approach hits all the anticipated high points, moments when he almost strikes a chord despite apparent complete indifference, moments when he misses the mark altogether etc.. it makes his music a wild & unpredictable thing to behold most of the time, which I think works in his favour.

I think you're selling Roland and Tracy really short there, they weren't just "channeling his intentions" and that's why the name didn't continue and why his solo work is different. imo.

this is elided by the name never changing again despite his interests and the personnel changing repeatedly imo (except Grinderman! but Dig Lazarus obviously fits into the same mode of interest in between the two albums).

Blixa quitting after the trilogy of Boatmans/No More/Nocturama -on the grounds that it wasn't the band he'd joined - underscores how that phase could have been well-served as solo records (esp since he did small-band and solo shows then) or The Nick Cave Quartet or s/t, then returning to the Bad Seeds name for Abattoir Blues.



anyway, voted!

good point and it kinda makes me think of Tom Petty

i checked and he has played birthday party songs with the bad seeds but pretty rarely. a few were common in the first few bad seeds tours, and "wild world" was a staple on the nocturama tour, but otherwise birthday party songs have only been rare one-offs.

indeed. first time i saw him in '85 "wild world" was the encore but in all the times i've seen him subsequently i'm fairly sure i have never heard a birthday pasrty song performed. i missed the nocturama tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Ni5SXn96Q

oh, and apologies to the mighty tracy for somehow adding an e to his name upthread.

thanks for extending the deadline, charlie. ballot sent!

btw, still lolling at this:

POLLIN doo dah doo, doo dah doo, doo dah do

argh. quote, not bold. sorry

all the poll title suggestions deserved to be in bold tbf

An Aus TV program this week alluded to the fact that "even Nick Cave" licensed a song for TV advertising. Pretty sure I never saw this ad circa 2013. And am kinda puzzled by the choice of that song to sell regional tourism, in SA, of all places.

I thought he had expressly said out of respect for his muse he wasn't going to lease songs for ads. Following that up with talking about how his music had personal associations for people like what they would want to get buried to, married to, and soundtrack other significant life events with.
Would have thought that would predate 2013 too.

the (original?) "my muse is not a horse" manifesto was about refusing to attend the MTV Awards, but I think there's a basic policy of *only* licensing Red Right Hand. it's been in TV shows since the X-Files in 1994, been the theme for multiple TV shows, been in multiple adverts, various films since Dumb & Dumber in 1994, re-recorded twice for Scream 2 and Scream 3, and was covered by Pete Yorn (instead of licensed) for one of the Hellboys because Cave felt like Scream kinda had title to it by then.

okay turns out that O Children from Lyre Of Orpheus was used in a Harry Potter movie

you have to figure he'd say yes to that, even there was otherwise a policy against licencing, just for the incongruity

i saw that Harry Potter movie in the theaters & had to contain my amusement/surprise lmao

People Ain't No Good was used in Shrek 2.

ok, I have a feeling all the votes are in?

can i ask -- and this is mildly embarrassing -- how to include images in my posts for the rundown ? I think the process has changed since I last ran one of these polls a few years back (Roxy Music or Queen).

Release The Bats was used in Kevin and Perry Go Large to s/trk the inside of Kevin's trousers
Shivers in Dogs in Space Nick singing though its a Rowland song of course.

how to include images in my posts for the rundown ?

for a quick reference, you can click "Show Formatting Help" just below the "Add a Post" box on ILX, and it'll give you the format you need. for a very sloppy "guide", i also made a couple posts the other day with images showing how to do it via imgur:

see this post, and if something doesn't make sense let me know and i can help!

yeah, Nick actually appearing in the film and singing tends to suggest he's given his approval (cf also Civil Dead, Johnny Suede, Himmel uber Berlin)

(Dogs director Loewenstein also got to use Mercy Seat in his John Birmingham Felafel adap, in two versions - and had Rowland cover Iggy)

think there's a basic policy of *only* licensing Red Right Hand

lol no

uh I still haven't voted yet, I could get you something by tonight (California time) but if I missed the boat, then so be it

Still time, sarahell ! Tonight your time is ok !
Thought you may have already snuck your vote in.

Thanks so much for your help with formatting, Karl !

thanks will do!

I'm looking forward to this. My grasp of Cave's solo oeuvre still feels patchy despite immersion last month. As a yoof I largely tuned out after Murder Ballads and not much turn-of-the-century stuff made my ballot upon catching up. Later dirges did though! I feel like I'm principally a Birthday Party fan really, but a weird one in that I really like them as a herky-jerky pop group and sometimes get a bit impatient with, say, Junkyard. So I'm anticipating a few "interesting--didn't realise that was so beloved" type moments...

I sent my ballot --

took until Sunday afternoon after all :)

OK cool, I think we're ready to go.

I'll kick this off in an hour or so.

oh damn, glad i'll be here for the very beginning! :D :D

TOO LOW

what is the most doofus nick cave fan? i am that guy in this poll, yelling out for the obvious hits

I feel like this poll must have attracted way more votes from 'strayans (ex-'strayans?) than the Go-Betweens did. Pretty sure I was joined overwhelmingly by Euro/American folk for that one, in terms of submitted ballots anyway. Then again, maybe there were just more ballots overall here?!?!

Which reminds me: I forgot to even consider voting for Tuff Monks!

The Tuff Monks is literally a piss-about jam that got bootlegged - with fifteen slots for side projects, it probably can stand to make room for more considered stuff (though I went quixotically tactical on my side-ballot tbh)

Rollout happening here btw: I ain't down here for your love or money, I'm down here for your POLL: The ILM Nick Cave Poll RESULTS Thread (#106 in a series)

Covers listening and voting thread rolling over here: TOWERS OF SONG: a Nick Cave Sings Covers listening thread and poll