Rob Harvilla's 60 Songs that Explain the 90s

I am digging this series of podcasts from Mr. Harvilla. Anyone else listening to them?

Thus far, he's done 45 - 60 minutes on the each of following songs:

You Oughta Know
Hey Jealousy
C.R.E.A.M.
The Rain (Supa Dupa Fly)
November Rain
Mind Playing Tricks On Me
All I Want For Christmas is You
Mayonaise
I Want It That Way
Make 'Em Say Uhh!
Cannonball
Enter Sandman
You Get What You Give
Gonna Make You Sweat
Nuthin' But a G-Thang
Just a Girl
No Scrubs
Hunger Strike
Juicy
Man! I Feel Like a Woman
Stinkfist
Common People
Dreaming of You
I Got 5 on It
Scenario
Hyperballad

I have enjoyed his writing in the past, and he's got some pretty good angles for most of these pods. The I Got 5 on It episode, in particular, was really enjoyable to me.

some nice couplings there:

The Rain (November Rain) (Supa Dupa Fly)
Mayonaise (I Want It That Way)
Gonna Make You Sweat (You Get What You Give)
Just a Girl (Nuthin' But a G-Thang)

Sounds interesting, but appears to be a Spotify thing, not available as a podcast.

It pulls up via PocketCasts, someone might have a bootleg RSS feed.

It is a Spotify thing - it's from The Ringer, and they're now owned by Spotify.

two terrible tastes that taste worse together

Loved the latest episode on Nothing Compares 2 U

Thank you for recommending this. I've been making my way through and have really been enjoying Harvilla's voice. Good, simple concept of using 60 songs to tell bigger stories of trends, artist trajectories, and different genre pockets.

So far my favorites have been "All I Want For Christmas is You" and "Make 'Em Say Uhh!" Had a good laugh in the latter when he said, "Mystikal had the same relation to the beat as the Kool Aid Man had to a brick wall."

From the episode on Third Eye Blind:

We're talking songs that make you want to smooch your also-married-to-someone-else high-school sweetheart in the back of your minivan in the parking lot at your 15-year high school reunion.

holy fucking shit @ young Rob's interpretation of "Take Me Home Tonight"

possibly the funniest thing I've ever heard (in the "My Heart Will Go On" ep)

Assume you mean Eddie Money's song? I was thinking how it and the PSB' "What Have I Done to Deserve This?" appeared within a year of each other, and the way each brings in this legendary female pop voice halfway through the record in a way that's so haunting. I'd do a poll if it wouldn't be so wildly lopsided. (I do like "Take Me Home Tonight.")

yes, Eddie Money's song. As a young boy, Rob thought the song was a cautionary tale about the possible results from a one night stand. The lover from that night, voiced by Ronnie Spector, shows up at Eddie's doorstep to plead "Feed my little baby. Feed my little baaaaabbbaaaaay." The idea that she's singing "feed my little baby" and like that is just too much.

Definitely an interesting/creative mishearing.

I knew who the Jerky Boys were through my older brother, but I never owned an album or saw the movie. I cannot believe Pablo, Honey is named after a Jerky Boys call. I even started listening to PH more after Turrican's thread (and blowout). How does a band survive this?

the "no scrubs" episode was the only one i've heard and it was pretty enjoyable

I wish they'd put all of the songs referenced in each episode in the playlist

I've listened to most of them. Highly recommend the "Wonderwall" episode.

These are really good. I started bingeing them which was a mistake because Rob's normally very satisfying vocal cadence starts to feel gimmicky, but as long as I don't listen to more than 2 in a row I find most of the episodes immensely enjoyable, and usually pretty insightful. He also has really good guests most of the time, who actually have specific knowledge about the artist or scene in question and aren't just the usual suspects on the podcast circuit. And the interviews never overstay their welcome.

Rob occasionally drops an oddly sensual "yeah" while the guest is talking.

^lol

yeah that's gonna do it for me and message boards pic.twitter.com/GxI1gKnaf9

— rob harvilla (@harvilla) June 16, 2022

I am a regular listener to the show and enjoy it and how much I enjoy it surprisingly does not correlate with my own enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the song being profiled. Some of my least favorite music has been some of my favorite shows which is not the norm, for me anyway.

lol none stuck out in these last two eps

This is a great podcast. Is there a thread on ilm for music podcast recommendations?

The Mary J. Blige episode was one of the best, really outstanding stuff. I immediately emailed a musicologist professor who taught "Women in Music" when I was school, to tell her she ought to give it a listen.

this podcast just illuminated - for me, for the first time - the potential double meaning of the title of Blink-182's second album Dude Ranch

both hilarious and horrifying

as soon as he mentioned the possibility, i was like oh, got it, say no more

yes, that was good insight

whoa

i wonder what internal spotify nonsense caused them to stop appending the song being discussed at the end of the episode. could it really be as dumb as the episodes being original content that they don't have to pay rights for but the songs being stuff they do have to pay for, so it helps their bottom line if not everyone who listens through the episode also plays the song?

i have no idea but it probably won’t be a case of them paying or not paying for the song it will be a victim of some larger agreement between spotify and a rights holder about whether or not “spotify original” podcast content can contain their music (and it might be different per territory)

yeah its weird bc the song was not actually embedded in the episode -- queueing up an ep would add the podcast followed by the song, separately. So that doesn't quite track. But can't really imagine what else the reason would be.

oh i see. hmm dunno.

maybe they just gave up on the "podcast+song" experiment? i've never heard of it outside of the mentions on this show.

I see these are available on non-Spotify feeds, will check it out

In today's episode re "Enjoy the Silence" by Depeche Mode, Rob refers to "the great critic Neg Raggett."

I can proudly say I once served the great Ned Raggett a drink at the Pasadena McCormick & Schmick's, nearly 16 years ago now.

I've listened to a ton of these now and it's great. Haven't listened to the last few because the songs weren't enticing (Hootie, Lisa Loeb, etc), but I know he goes way beyond the title artist and I probably should, huh?

xp Pretty sure I called up Ned while he was doing a radio show c. 1999, and we briefly chatted about the Dead C.

Hootie one was good. Makes a good case for the band's strengths and the underappreciated world-weariness or social commentary in their lyrics. It does open with a lot of 80s baseball card material and "my life as a sports fan" material; that didn't do as much for me, but many here might find it very sweet and charming!

i need to dig into this more, i listened to an episode ages ago & really liked it

Hootie and Lisa were both fantastic!

^seconded.

I’m up to episode 58 and there hasn’t been a dud episode so far. I could listen to this guy recite the phone book.

lol at the Enjoy the Silence episode being structured around the "For the Masses" tribute album, a mostly forgotten album I listened to a whole lot in the late-90s and which actually got me back into depeche mode at the time

Ok I'll eventually get around to those eps (even though sports talk is equally unenticing)

I like the way he tells stories and his eye for banal personal details, so even the sports talk wasn't a total deal-breaker for a sports-hater like myself. YMMV of course.

lol at his pronunciation of Basildon

you can find "sports talk" in the works of David Berman as well

Not to take anything away from the great Ned Raggett but I do like his subtle habit of always referring to critics as "the great music writer x" or "the great critic x", just bigging up his colleagues.

I've tried to get both my 90s music-obsessed friend and his 90s music-obsessed 14 year old stepson to listen, without success.

my partner likes 90s music and absolutely hates it.

to the degree I sense my own enjoyment of the podcast is off-putting

Oh yeah I should have mentioned partner can't bear to hear his voice/delivery even for a moment, such that I lunge for the off switch if she's in the same space.

yes, a very relatable scene

His style is very mannered. I love it as long as I get it in reasonable doses. It flips abruptly to unbearable if I try to binge more than a couple episodes. Think I’m upthread saying as much.

All my favorite podcasts in terms of research/writing have terrible, mannered delivery. It's an accepted price of entry at this point

I could listen to him read the Bible or to replace the kind lady on Google Maps, but I totally get that there could a backlash to "Rob Harvilla voice".

I also like his delivery! But I think "small doses" goes for almost any podcast, especially if it's one person talking and they're trying to write jokes, etc. I wouldn't listen to any one comedian for three hours, no matter how funny I find them or how many chores I need to get done.

Apparently Rob Harvilla voice is similar to Brad Listi voice, on the Otherppl podcast (which mostly interviews writers).

ok the Yellow Ledbetter episode has put me deep in my feelings
pvmic i uncritically love this episode
onward i shall continue listening

boop-boop

i was bracing myself for him to be all “and unlike Spin Doctors Pearl Jam’s Ten only had one good song” & he’s like THEY HAD EIGHT GOOD SONGS and I was like MY DUDE

it’s scary how much he really is “my people” in this episode

Harvilla's on our side.

(Full disclosure: he's been my editor at two publications and is a mensch)

i mean in all my listening to the show i get strong "is this guy an ILXor" vibes. would be an excellent poster imho.

There was a part in the Cannonball episode that made me laugh out loud when he mentions Kelley Deal and says THAT'S RIGHT THERE'S TWO OF THEM

the show also has an endearing quality “midnight community radio dj”, just talking reminscences & stray thoughts out to the world to whoevers listening, maybe while you are driving cross country somewhere

yellow ledbetter lyrics = “sage gibberish” made me lol it is very otm

quality midnight DJ comparison is OTM

He has good comic timing for sure. I started this on a break from the Andrew Hickey cast, and it was really hard to go back to that as it's completely humourless (not that he's trying, it's a totally different thing).

I really like this (I'm up to the Whitney "I Will Always" ep), but the funny thing about the voice-haters* is, personally, the first monologue half is nearly always better than the interview half. The Luniz ep was maybe the sole exception so far? Maybe he should interview pairs of friends more often.

Though I thought the "Common People" ep was a rare miss in the monologue dept—that lengthy opening on the use of "she" in britpop was total nonsense, no? in general his political analyses and "I don't want to talk about thats" are a little inconsistent, but I think most music fans with roughly similar politics can relate, so it doesn't really bother me—and I have to admit Lynskey improved it by having a better sense of the context. Sometimes I think Americans lean in to the "the British class system is a byzantine maze no human can comprehend!" idea as a free pass to not think about class at all anywhere, like no rich american ever went slumming or w/e. Anyway, point being that I bail on the interviews somewhat often, but, somewhat to my surprise, have only skipped out on one of his monologues so far (the Selena one; I couldn't square his effusive praise with the actual clips that sounded p bad to me, sorry Selena fans).

*tbc I absolutely understand hating podcast voices

Yeah, often the conversation bit is unnecessary, but most guests are pretty good. I had to bail on David Chang talking about Metallica though, I just could not.

i mean in all my listening to the show i get strong "is this guy an ILXor" vibes. would be an excellent poster imho.

― got it in the blood, the kid's a pelican (Doctor Casino), Friday, January 27, 2023 3:41 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

He has tweeted about this thread...

Rob Harvilla's 60 Songs that Explain the 90s

...and possibly (?) mentioned us on the podcast. Some music podcast has mentioned ilxor in the last six months or so, at any rate. Butchering the pronunciation of course.

i will stop narrating every ep i swear but

“Walk” - Pantera episode…. so good!! when he did the Bootylicious/Destinys child voiceover to Cowboy’s from Hell intro i lost my shit

Vinnie..can you handle this
Phil …can you handle this
Dimebag …can you handle this

i was super into Pantera in high school, never stopped loving Dimebag even when Phil made them unsupportable… so grateful this ep exists bc it is really fun to celebrate how much Dime fucking rules (and to relish the hilarity of their 80’s glam metal years)

Rob if you are still reading this, let me do an episode on the first track from Merzbow's 'Pulse Demon.'

lol he doesn't read, HE TALKS. aren't you paying any attention?

That was a nice block of Filter and REM, if I do say so myself. My name is Shaft.

that detail about rob’s college radio career felt like a punchline the biographical info from the whole series has been leading up to

"Feed my little baby" will not be topped, but you're right, this isn't a podcast about midwestern catholic guilt.

oh hey there Whiney aka guest on the Coolio Gangsta Paradise episode while i was driving around today! i fully acted out the dicaprio meme pointing at the stereo

the episodes he did on Notorious BIG’s Juicy, Whitneys I Will Always Love You and Sinead’s Nothing compares 2 u —- all incredibly moving & compassionate, i really like when he digs deeper in that way. i fully teared up in the whitney ep.

30 more episodes! I fist-pumped the air.

Oh really? I was wondering if he was truly going to end it at 90.

"Hear me now and believe me later - we will stop at 120 songs." Let's see. Apparently he's taking 2 months off and starting again in May.

It was too soon to end, just when "some call it soup / some call it nuts" from the Green Day episode may have tentatively topped "Feed my little baby".

niiice.

got to the Enjoy the Silence ep a couple nights back. the college radio material was cracking me UP.

I would've liked him to do the 80s or 00s when he was done but I'll take 30 more 90s episodes

I don’t think you could do a marketable ‘00s podcast in this style because the monoculture was dead and gone. 75 minutes about some Clay Aiken or Breaking Benjamin song you don’t remember actually hearing

lets figure out CrazyTown

My wife and I both recently started listening — '90s music is a big bonding thing for us in general, so it's a good couple show for us. It's fun. I can see how his shtick would annoy some people but I think it mostly works, he has actual interesting things to say often enough that the patter is tolerable and sometimes entertaining. Helps that in general I like his taste. Listened to the Hole episode recently, I was amen-ing his adulation of Courtney Love's songwriting.

I've only listened to "Basket Case" and kind of felt like it could have been half as long. He's a bit much so I had to break it into multiple listens.

His guest who said it was the worst single off Dookie OTM

The one thing that bugs me about this podcast is that the individual song snippets usually feel way too short, often so short that they don't give you enough time to digest what's so unique about the point Rob's trying to make. Is it a copyright thing? As a guy who lived through the 90s and listened to a lot of music, I often enough know and understand the song being referenced. But I was trying to think about it from the perspective of someone who wasn't around for that era, or who wasn't attuned to it at the time, and those 4-5 second blips of songs would leave a lot unsaid.

Anyway, happy for more episodes.

I think it has to be a copyright thing. I've checked a few episodes of the podcast Bandsplain, and all its clips are only about five seconds as well.

From what I'm reading the 'under 7 seconds' thing is a myth, but it seems like "fair use" would count here since this is explicitly criticism and commentary on the music. In which case if they're going to use it at all, might as well play longer clips. Maybe he just wants to keep up a fast pace, similar to the pace of the script.

i’m still way in the weeds digging old episodes. having a ball though. goddamn the Celine Dion episode was excellent. every now and then a guest conversation will just take the whole episode to a new level, like Leslie Gray Streeter did with this one. So awesome.

yeah I've been meaning to note that shortly after my "the interviews are mostly bad" post upthread, I hit a run of good-to-great interviews and am now fully converted

but it seems like "fair use" would count here since this is explicitly criticism and commentary on the music

It might but it's probably not worth the effort - the automated copyright systems would flag all of it and then he has to fight each flag/strike on every service/upload.

It's a Spotify original, too, isn't it? Might be them trying to avoid paying anyone $.000001 for a "stream" of a song featured.

It used to be (when he would introduce the full song at the end), but it's not affiliated with Spotify anymore, I don't think.

the automated copyright systems would flag all of it and then he has to fight each flag/strike on every service/upload.

Wouldn't this happen for short clips as well?

Hi Rob!

I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but have always enjoyed his writing (and, like Alfred, have written for him at a few different places).

personal observation: i like that for the Hole / Doll Parts ep that he draws on the 1997 Courtney biography by Billy Martin

mostly because ppl seem to have forgotten it and just, i dunno, there’s a kindness to that choice?

there's a kindness to "Shaft"

Does Lange as in Mutt really rhyme with range?

I love that Courtney bio, sad that I seem to have misplaced/lost/loaned out my copy years ago.

And yeah, I recently was informed of that about Mutt Lange's pronunciation too, after decades of pronouncing it like Jessica Lange.

Courtney Love gave Rob & the pod & Yasi Salek of Bandsplain a huge glowing shoutout on instagram! like how well they reoresented her, how thoughtful, listed a to of episodes she liked

she called him a “stentorian voiced dudely bro” lol <3

linked here https://www.instagram.com/p/CpBOKQ_LP3p

"hey rob, anything incredibly weird happen today"

"courtney love called me a "stentorian voiced dudely bro" pic.twitter.com/SOrqo7BSCL

— rob harvilla (@harvilla) February 23, 2023

lol she's not wrong. glad she heard it, it's a good episode.

now that i’m also listening to LOT of bandsplain i hope in the future maybe rob & yasi do a project together bc they have great chemistry as cohosts

(lmao maybe w Rob’s mom also?)

Is it really unusual for someone to love both Pearl Jam and Hole(?)

not at all

i have been one of those ppl from day 1

perception of pj was/is classic rock earnest macho whatever but there’s still a lot of feels that a teenager could get from their music AND hole
they served diff purposes and said different things but still had a similar cathartic effect at its core bc of their honesty
personally speaking anyway

I think Courtney's just reacting to decades of dismissal by grunge bros. But I'm sure there are lots of people with both Hole and Pearl Jam CDs.

it seems like some beef she has w Cameron Crowe, maybe bc of something in the PJ20 doc or old Singles grudge
who the hell knows

Too bad... imagine Courtney in Elizabethtown.

Per your collective recommendation I listened to a couple of these in the car yesterday, and they were tons of fun. Maybe more fun than informative or anything, but fun>facts. What I did *not* like were either of the guests he had on for further discussion; neither of them brought anything interesting to the table and both of them were more annoying than illuminating. Was kind of a bummer, especially the one who kept getting things really wrong (name of band members, name of albums, etc.), but at least the format of the podcast makes them easy to skip. Going forward I think I'll just listen to the Rob monologue bits and then move on to the next ep.

agreed. the guests can be good and the guests can be bad. it would be nice to have, like, a true superfan of a band as opposed to someone with name recognition ... i can't remember which one it was, but one of these i listened to, the guest was basically like "yeah, this is one of my least favorite songs by this band" ... oh, cool. can't wait to hear you talk about it, then.

I'm not sure I need a superfan or anything like that, just someone who can bring something to the conversation more than just further affirmation of a song that is already the subject of a generally laudatory and positive podcast, even when he's talking about ugly music or music that has been radically reappraised in the wake of the "everything is good" poptimist revolution. The two I listened to, I got a really nice feel for *why* he likes the song (even if I don't), but the two guests I (mostly) listened to failed on that front, or at the least seemed ill-prepared for the discussion.

some of the guests really enrich the song tho! Leslie Streeter on Hootie ep, also on Whitney ep, or Hanif Abdurraquib on Gin Blossoms, Yasi Salek on Hole etc etc are all really great

it can be patchy early on yes but that is not at all the rule in my experience of the series as a whole. skip at your peril imo

I think the only guest I've actually bailed on is David Chang

same

I did like the Depeche entry — then again I’m name checked in it. But also the detail about DJing for a college radio station only available on cable, as I’ve been there.

it can be patchy early on yes but that is not at all the rule in my experience of the series as a whole. skip at your peril imo

I don't want to name the two guests I heard, because I don't want to hurt any feelings here in case someone is buddies with them, but they were from 2021. Is that early? Neither guest enriched the song at all, but I may have simply listened to a couple songs that didn't really have much to enrich? I'll try a couple of others, maybe the ones you mentioned.

Hanif Abdurraquib on Gin Blossoms, Yasi Salek on Hole

Very much enjoyed both of those. The most obnoxious I've heard was Jay Caspian Kang on "Basket Case," which was weird because he more or less liked Green Day but hated that song. And also just didn't really have much interesting to say. (Music is not really his area of expertise.)

But to the point, yeah, I kind of consider the episode over when the guest appears, and then I keep listening if it's somebody interesting and not if not.

yes, Kang was the one i was thinking of.

"superfan" was a poor word choice on my part ... but Kang is a good example of someone they should've ditched.

enrichment is great, of course, but i'm happy with knowledge of the band and enthusiasm. basically, just nerd out with Rob.

The Oakland guys on the Luniz episode was a good example of the guests really bringing some expert knowledge.

Okay, I just listened to the New Radicals one, and Rob Sheffield is a good guest, not least because this sort of thing is totally in his wheelhouse as a guy who excels at showing boundless enthusiasm for pretty much everything.

Ha! Rob has kind of amazing ability to do that and still keep his dignity totally intact. A friend and I have interacted with him in a certain trivia league several of us ILX0rs are on and briefly ended up on the receiving end of that enthusiasm as a result which felt really good.

Also he's good in reverent mode, but the ones where he can loosen up are a bit more fun (listening to the Oasis one now, lol)

Interviews are hit or miss for sure, but VG is right that the good ones really add something.

I hit my first "backfire" episode. Previously my feelings about Counting Crows consisted of mild unexamined nostalgic affection, but now I think they're legit terrible and Duritz is an all-time awful singer and irritating whiner. I still enjoyed the ep though! I didn't bother with the Simmons interview; his Pumpkins appearance was one of the early ones that made me think the interviews were a waste of time.

Feel free to toss out good eps in this thread, at this point I've listened to most of the ones that I was drawn to, but you never know which ones are going to be surprisingly good based on the tangents and other artists he pulls in for background.

Yeah, same here!

I listened to the Oasis one, and it was ... OK. Oasis is innately funny, so there's that. But it's one where I made it through the whole thing (well, not much of the interview) without ever figuring out if Harvilla is at all a fan. Same thing with the New Radicals one, come to think of it. He just spends the whole time amusingly making fun of the group (however fair or good natured he may often be), but when he emerges on the other side I have no sense where he really stands. I'm not sure it matters, of course, just some cognitive dissonance on my end when he seems to have more affection for, say, Limp Bizkit than he does for an equally (or, more likely, less) shitty band. I listened to the Tool one, too, and he seemed to show some actual legit enthusiasm for the group, but right now it's an outlier among the ones I have heard.

I do like how each individual episodes sometimes seems to only glance at the state theme of the podcast, but taken as a whole they appear to be amounting to a good portrait of a period of time I remember well, even if I have no nostalgia for any of it, at least not in a "remember the '90s?" sense.

The most reliable ones, imo, are the rap and rnb episodes. I don't think I've disliked any of those so far and moreover they tend to be peak eps for me (out of my recent listens, the DMX and Bone Thugs ones were both great), though I also find the whole project remarkably consistent so ymmv.

I liked the Oasis one, because I am embarrassed by my own brief but intense teenage love for them, so that tone worked. But that plus the Pulp one suggests he's maybe better off focusing on American music (Spice Girls ep wasn't bad though iirc?); all three of those were a little too focused on the UK music press. Compare to the Tori and Fiona Apple eps, where the (heinous) US media coverage is important but not quite as dominant in the analysis.

I thought the Alice in Chains one was good. Definitely made me appreciate the band more than I ever have, and I thought Chuck Klosterman was a fine guest.

I bet Bone Thugs one is great, got the Ohio connection! I think my problem is that the ones I have been looking forward to the most I have, ironically, been saving for later (like Missy, or Tori, NIN - more Ohio!, or Fiona, or Aaliyah, or Pearl Jam, or "Torn").

NIN was great, "Torn" was really good for the backstory and different versions (all the more so since I've never liked that song).

"Macarena" also fun for backstory and tracking the versions.

For sure, same for Whoomp! There It Is.

listened ages ago so memory may not be reliable but I enjoyed the guests on Billy Ray Cyrus and Brandy/Monica episodes v much - didn't see how he could get lots of mileage out of either song but they added a new dimension

have only listened to a few of these but i highly recommend the one on "mind playin' tricks on me"

xp yeah the guest for Billy Ray was really great

I have actually found that I like the episodes more for songs I don't like very much compared to songs I do enjoy.

For sure, same for Whoomp! There It Is.

Yeah, using Whoomp to talk about the whole history of Miami bass and 2 Live Crew was really good and interesting.

I have actually found that I like the episodes more for songs I don't like very much compared to songs I do enjoy.

Same, that's why I haven't listened to the Missy, Aaliyah, etc. eps and I'll probably listen to Limp Bizkit before those.

fwiw, the Missy and Aaliyah episodes are both good.

my favorites for either Rob’s telling, the guest’s input, or both

Mary J Blige -Real Love
Whitney Houston - I Will Always Love You
Gin Blossoms -Hey Jealousy
Tom Petty - It’s Good To Be King
Hootie - Only Wanna Be w You
Erykah Badu - Tyrone
Bonnie Raitt - I can’t make you love me
Hole - Doll Parts

i’ve missed a bunch but these are the one’s immediately to mind

I said upthread that I really liked the Sinead O'Connor and Tori Amos episodes, can't remember exactly why now though

And Alanis Morrisette

oh yes! Sinead & Tori both A++ episodes

Tori Amos one was great (didn't listen to the interview).

Fiona Apple one is even better, even liked some of the discussion.

Whoa, what a way to come back (have not listened yet).

Wow. I figured he was saving Teen Spirit for the final run, but it worked out because it gave time for Courtney to become a "60 Songs" fan. Looking forward to listening!

So I'm about 20 minutes into the interview, and I'm finding it... rather hard to listen to, in the most literal sense. Love is talking a mile a minute but mumbling like Juliette Lewis on Yellowjackets, and her Skype connection from England isn't the greatest. Nothing really revelatory so far -- more of the conversation so far has been about Billy Corgan than Kurt Cobain -- I think I might have to bail on this one, and maybe I'll come back and listen to the rest in small doses.

INCOHERENT

I went into her interview with Marc Maron a short while ago with the best of intentions, but I lasted less than 10 minutes.

I started to slag her without listening earlier but deleted because I thought that seemed a little shitty. But I wonder if he tried to get Grohl and couldn't. I would much, much, much rather listen to him talk about the song than Courtney Love.

I've made it through a decent chunk of the interview, and I mean, Courtney's is Courtney, but, I mean, Courtney Love is a force of nature and national treasure, right? She's a walking study in demonology! I think it's a good interview. Rob did a decent job trying to keep from getting thrown off this bucking bronco of pontification. I wish he had pulled out his bass when Courtney was trying to get him to accompany her on the Smells Like Teen Spirit draft lyrics. He has made no secret on this podcast of being a bass player in a former life.

"You know that thing, imposter syndrome?"
"Yeah."
"I've never had one day of it."

I would much, much, much rather listen to him talk about the song than Courtney Love.

Borrrrrrring. J/k but not really, I don't know that I've heard Grohl say anything especially interesting in all of his talking head appearances. I wasn't really bothered by rolling with Courtney's stream of consciousness in the WTF interview, at least with her you'll get some surprises.

Incomprehensible. But in the end I’m reasonably glad I stuck with it. I found the endless namedropping and the pinball ricochet from topic to topic — often with no context at all — maddening, but by halfway through I was rolling with it, not trying to follow any of these little sidequests, taking them like random interruptions from a separate feed. I’ve never spent any time “with” Love, so this glimpse of her was sort of illuminating. I don’t 100% buy her re-framing of Kurt and her insistence that he never, ever told anyone the truth, but it adds a colour, a new layer of depth, to the mental image I have of that scene. I feel like Rob threaded the needle about as well as anyone could there — not 100% humouring her, but playing along just right, the goldilocks balance of respect and irreverence/skepticism.

And Rob’s essay/performance was, as always and maybe moreso, excellent.

xp: couldn't disagree more, but so be it!

I usually find Grohl to be interesting and authentic when I hear him speak, especially when he's telling stories from those times, talking about Kurt, admitting to ripping off funk drummers, etc.

Stream-of-consciousness, endless-namedropping, topic-ricocheting Courtney Love sounds like a nightmare to me.

I'll listen, though. Def wanna hear Rob's essay.

The only time I've heard Dave Grohl speak at length was on his episode of WTF which was - holy shit - over ten years ago now. I remember it being a good chat.

He was good on one NPR show or another after his book came out, very engaging dude. I would definitely listen to him. But I love Courtney, so I'm sure I'll enjoy this even if it's a mess. (How could it not be a mess? That's her brand. But a smart mess.)

I'm really enjoying the first 20 mins so far and guessing the Wesley Willis and Daniel Johnston dives are more fun than 2 hours with Courtney.

It actually settles down and gets better in the last 45 min or so, with Courtney singing the unused lyrics to Teen Spirit, talking more directly about Kurt, etc.

Interview was a bit wild but absolutely worth it for that section. Asking Rob to play the guitar part and listening to him squirm was surreal and fantastic. Glad show is back.

Here’s the thing:

With this Courtney conversation - and his lovely essay - for 2 hours and 45 minutes, Kurt was alive. He wasn’t past tense, he wasn’t in pain, he wasn’t od’ing. Rob & Courtney kept him alive as a songwriter, as her then-boyfriend, as a person and not a myth and for me it was fucking magic. It made me happy.

Think whatever you want about Courtney but she understood the assignment and I love her for it. And I don’t think she does that with just anyone. I think Rob being genuine & open & unjudgemental made that possible.

the eurypides medea NYT bit was v funny

oh and her brief Jeremy cover lol

god damn Rob's "Teen Spirit" essay was unbelievably good

otm

when he said something like "we can protect Kurt by not leaving this room" i started crying

I really enjoyed the uncharacteristically focused "Regulate" episode (maybe Rob's mind switched into book mood?). When they started talking about how Nate Dogg's delayed solo album impacted his eventual legacy, I was hoping they might mention the "Nate in '08" greatest hits megamix by 1der / DJ Steve1der, which has become for me -- and I'm guessing I'm not the only one -- the go-to Nate Dogg listen.

It looks like the original Mixcloud page (with the extremely 2008 Shepard Fairey parody cover art) is still live, but I can't get the audio to play :/ Fortunately it's been mirrored (remember mirroring??) on every platform you can think of, e.g https://soundcloud.com/littleg818/nate-dogg-the-best-of-nate-dogg-ultimate-compilation-hd-by-1der

I had given up on the podcast after binging many episodes, but actually listened to that one yesterday and it was great.

I'll probably pick it back up at some point, but non-ironically I ran out of steam on this podcast right around episode #60

The "Birdhouse In Your Soul" episode ruuuuuuuuuuules.

it really does, loved it so much.

Yup. Same.

The Mazzy Star one released this week is excellent. It starts with a 20 min tribute to Low, spends some time with Maggot Brain and eventually gets to Mazzy Star. It all works.

yeah it was lovely - tbh i didn’t know much about Low at all so it was quite interesting to me also

That's very surprising!

I wasn't really into the TMBG one, but I don't really like TMBG (I respect it though).

yeah i have a lot of indie-music blindspots tbh lol

The Low tribute was really nice, even if it literally skipped over the middle period with my favorite albums (I know I'm in the minority though). The rest was kinda in one ear out the other, I think I just haven't been in the mood for this lately.

Funny, I'm not a big fan of TMBG, but his personal essay at the start made me laugh more than a couple times. I actually liked a bit of the discussion, too, even if many of its points were made in the essay.

The "Birdhouse in Your Soul" episode is fantastic

Sublime episode was kind of shit, no?

TBF I think Sublime is more than kind of shit. Maybe if you’re tuned into their wavelength you’d have dug it. But Rob’s impassioned defences of the indefensible have swayed me — or at least been interesting — in other cases. But I didn’t take literally anything away from this ep.

yeah i liked his stanning them & enjoyed Yasi guesting but it didn’t sway me

they can’t all be winners

Didn’t it seem like a fake stan? A forced stan? Like his heart was just not in it. And neither was Yasi’s, I don’t think. Altho hers a bit more than his.

Not that I want to belabour the point. DON’T GET INVOLVED

RUDE

Discouraging words!

not my favorite ep of this great show, but to call it "shit" is... well, RUDE

4 Non Blondes episode going well so far. but the Secret Samadhi shout-out has psyched me out cause I've been editing down a shortlist of wtf lyrics for a poll, and now it'll look like I'm just jumping on the bandwagon.

timing of the puff daddy episode (one day before the allegations came out) was kinda hilarious

not my favorite ep of this great show, but to call it "shit" is... well, RUDE

love is
what I got

I actually found Rob's defense of Sublime pretty effective. But then, I was a Sublime-liker in my bygone days of youthful naivete, before I learned to hate them. I was actually kind of annoyed that he spent most of the episode talking about songs besides the one the episode was ostensibly about. I know relentless digression is the house style, and I'm there for it most of the time, but it felt like he'd rather talk about any song besides Santeria, which made the whole thing feel sort of perfunctory.

I enjoyed the 4 Non Blondes ep, it gave me some context for a song that I've never liked, but I can at least now appreciate in some sense.

yeah i liked it too
i never hated the song tho and i do kinda like Linda Perry

leslie is a good guest too, i like when she’s on

Agreed. Hate What’s Up w/a passion (much more than most of the songs on the RS list or the ones his straw poll unearthed) but the episode delivered.

mr veg lived in SF back in the late 80’s-early 90’s and remembers Perry from when she waitressed at a bfast place on Market in the Castro, I think Squat & Gobble maybe? - she would call out the names for the waiting-to-be-seated list for breakfast & he said you could hear her 5 blocks away

Enjoyed the "What's Up" episode a lot but wow, the excerpts of other songs from that 4 Non Blondes record were just ghastly.

haven't heard the episode, but the first track on the 4 non blondes LP ("Train") is easily the best thing on there

-"pendantic"
-"Zola Neale Hurston"

Sorry, just had to put that somewhere.

being a bit pendantic with that second one

the Zola Neale Hurston thing must be killing him... he just went through an exercise of documenting and atoning for past mispronunciation/misnomers, in the recent book-launch live show ep.

lol right? poor rob

Zola? Jesus.

lol

4 Non Blondes episode going well so far. but the Secret Samadhi shout-out has psyched me out cause I've been editing down a shortlist of wtf lyrics for a poll, and now it'll look like I'm just jumping on the bandwagon.

― not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Saturday, December 16, 2023 8:08 AM bookmarkflaglink

cleaning out my notes document, figured it was time: Secret Samadhi by Live: its bathetic and grotesque lyrics

the last few episodes have all been really great imo - Lenny Kravitz, Cher, Goo Goo Dolls & especially the George Michael one last week, loved that one

The discussion w Wesley Morris on MJ, Black & White & everything after it is one of the best conversations he’s had recently imo.

Harvilla & Morris both mention the “Think Twice” podcast a few times - I highly recommend it if you are at all curious, it’s really good.

The Jay-Z one was another rare ep where the guest portion outshined the main bit.

(also speaks Jay's catalog that every clip he played had me saying "that's the one you chose?!", when there could have been five other classics from most of the records)

The discussion w Wesley Morris on MJ, Black & White & everything after it is one of the best conversations he’s had recently imo.

Harvilla & Morris both mention the “Think Twice” podcast a few times - I highly recommend it if you are at all curious, it’s really good.

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 9 February 2024 02:41 (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thanks, I binged this last week and agree that it was excellent (except the ads which were truly horrible but that's almost everything these days)

Agreed, the Jay-Z conversation with Wosny Lambre is great, it provides so much context for what it was like to encounter Jay-Z in the overall stream of '90s New York rap. Really enjoyed it.

yeah it was def one of the best conversations of the series, no question

Glory Box intro rant about the whooping crowd is very good.

RIP

I’ve gone back to listen to the ones I hadn’t already heard before I listen to the final ones. Quite odd listening to the earlier episodes that feel more “scripted”, less conversational I guess.

sigh i will miss this show
excited for whatever he does next

he def gets a legit lol or two out of me every episode. like the jay z one where he was reading the ten commandments to funk flex bombs sound fx

'lets go mount sinai'

so funny

i want a playlist of all the songs he played at open mic nights — when he said he did Hallelujah i screamed ROB NO

So Rob’s next project is hosting a BBC podcast series (i think) with Courtney Love! starting in April

https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2024/bbc-radio-6-music-and-bbc-sounds-announce-courtney-loves-women

Oh man - I had to stop halfway through the Smells Like Teen Spirit episode because I couldn't stand Love's ramblings. Rob basically just smiled and nodded while she jumped around all over the place and talked more about herself than Nirvana.

Hopefully he's got something better lined up after this.

i loved that episode so as always, mileage varies!

I'm in favor of this Odd Couple remake, but he strongly implied that he'll be doing another podcast for the same company with the same team, so I assume this is in addition to that.

yeah, my reax to that news was "ugh, that sucks, and it seems like it would be painful for Rob." (i'm sure he doesn't feel that way and is excited.)

his half of that episode is approximately 10 times better than listening to her ramble.

https://preview.redd.it/i-need-a-broom-to-clean-up-all-those-names-courtney-dropped-v0-0yu54zouej9a1.jpg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0606713ad03d45ad5afb3d2323a5c22f7c12bacd

I enjoyed her rambling. Anyway it's not like he has to edit the podcast, that's whose doing the real work here.

I don’t fault anyone for loving the Courtney, but I couldn’t take it — she (who has done WONDERFUL work) didn’t talk about the work at all; it was who wanted to or did fuck whom and who was on what scene at which moment and all that social shit.

Now, this is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to the creation of a scene, probably as important as the music (or more), but her ep was just Not For Me.

omg

this is not directed at hardcore dilettante but to anyone else with something in the hopper re courtney

god forbid i be naive enough think that this would be a good thing to mention for Harvilla’s career bump and that geez might be an interesting series
…
and more fool me for forgettig that the very mention of Courtney’s name is like summoning a flock of winged monkeys who feel it is important to point out how bad & hated & idk insane she is or whatever

i ask you all please absolutely knock it the fuck off

it’s boring, depressing, and lame

hello friends, our newish podcast is called 60 SONGS THAT EXPLAIN THE '90S: THE 2000S and will cover rad jams from 2000 to 2009; here is a trailer where i say that title as many times as possible in 60 seconds https://t.co/dJ0Re8gAFl

— rob harvilla (@harvilla) September 25, 2024

interesting choice of name

I let out my own oddly sensual 'yeah' upon seeing this trailer in my subscriptions. I'm a bit worried that Rob was a mostly formed self-aware adult in the 2000s. Will he be able to deliver hits as good as "feed my little baby" and "Shaft" from this decade?

who cares BRING IT ON

the Bring It On soundtrack is eligible

An (accurate) ILX reference in the new ep - is Rob a member?

He has referenced ILX in a tweet previously - see July 7, 2022 upthread

afaict he posted here a couple of dozen times between 2005 and 2009

he did post here back in the day. Seems like his handle was "harvilla" or something like that.

I didn't find any posts under that display name. The ones I found were under the name "awful bliss" (he confirmed his identity in this thread). But maybe he posted under another name, too.

hmmm, must have been another writer back then that I am confusing him with.

Paper Planes YASSSSSS

lol my wife's listening to the Paper Planes episode and she just came in like, "Uh, he just mentioned I Love Music?"

I haven't felt compelled to dive into 00s nostalgia and haven't listened to any of the other new eps yet, but I did listen to the Paper Planned one and it was great.

Planned Paperhood

1:20:38

Linkin Park ep was quite good. My latest unsolicited small production note: add a few more clicks of the cassette sound or silence between Rob's final essay line and the pre-guest commercial.

yeah it was v good -loved Darnielle’s insight, added a good layer of sensitivity to the whole thing

i wonder what internal spotify nonsense caused them to stop appending the song being discussed at the end of the episode. could it really be as dumb as the episodes being original content that they don't have to pay rights for but the songs being stuff they do have to pay for, so it helps their bottom line if not everyone who listens through the episode also plays the song?

This didn't seem to be addressed but it also happened when The Ringer got Bandsplain and I think it's so the show works on non-Spotify podcast feeds.

Anyway I listened to like 50-60 of the 90s ones and the other day I was driving and threw on the "Shoop" one. I have no real interest or knowledge of Salt-n-Pepa but it was next up. Just wanted to shout out good Rob can be, as he starts with a long thing about awkward Junior High dances, goes into the history of the group (interesting, places them in context, gives me a deeper appreciation of their achievements in that space), and ends up with a scene of his wife dancing in the kitchen. Just A-1 podcasting.

Yeah from the ones I’ve listened to, it’s actually the songs I least care about the one that have the best episodes.

I really enjoy the content but whyyyy why does Rob Harvilla slip in and out of that fucking randomly emphatic slam poet ass cadence it drives me nuts. If I found out any of you talked like that I’d have to killfile

Worst

Rob is a multistate quantum being. you are listening to probability cloud overlapping Rob, Shaft, DJ Aloof, etc.

lol otm

I had to quit the Harvilla podcast as that slam poet schtick just wore me down. Find him much, much more palatable as a guest on other people's shows.

I've been listening to a history podcast for over a decade now despite not being able to stand the guys speaking voice. Life is suffering.

i enjoy rob's podcast but only in 1-2 episode increments. i need a break for a few weeks in between doses then he sounds fun and interesting again

I wonder if rob is still having fun, or if he ever feels like he knocked up the ringer in a (sixty)-night stand and must now "feed (Bill's) little baby"

I've been listening to a history podcast for over a decade now despite not being able to stand the guys speaking voice. Life is suffering.

― MJ Slenderman (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, January 7, 2025 2:57 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

is it the guy that sounds like wallace shawn

this makes me want to listen

xp no, this guy

https://www.thebritishhistorypodcast.com/

he does his research and is politically sound but his presenting style is " hey kids, listen, this stuff isn't boring like you thought!" and in this regard I am 1000 years old.

I ration these too but the thread prompted me to listen to the Johnny Cash one. I thought it was great. I bawled three or four times.

This 311 episode was good because it confirmed that I definitely and confidently do not like this band absolutely at all not one bit

I had thought recently, “well i used to hate them but that was a long time ago & i have changed my mind about a lot of stuff i hated back then and a lot of cool ppl i know really ride for them”

NOPE

every song snippet just made my skeleton leave my body more

I've never listened to the podcast, but I did buy the book that came out of it a few weeks ago.

nice! i do want to read the book one day

I only ever ambiently followed Rihanna’s career, so I didn’t realize she hadn’t released an album since 2016. Now that I think about it, maybe an important part of the cultural background for the Trump era for me is that we traded Rihanna on the radio for, uh, Morgan Wallen?

We didn't trade nothing. She has *denied us*!

amen

Kamala should have run on a platform of guaranteed Rhianna albums.

She'd have ended up striking a grand bargain where we got 5 new Fergie albums instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQb6U_XQWBg

the live episode was v fun!!

Having never seen a picture of Rob or Yasi before, I just realized that I have always been mentally picturing them as Mark Duplass and Sarah Silverman.

CR is always a good addition to these group shows

Having never seen a picture of Rob or Yasi before, I just realized that I have always been mentally picturing them as Mark Duplass and Sarah Silverman.

I've never listened to the podcast, but I did buy the book that came out of it a few weeks ago.

― clemenza, Wednesday, January 15, 2025 4:42 PM (three weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

I did too, and while I'm glad to own it and support Rob, I find the conversational/confessional voice he uses in this series to be far more effective in audio than written form. Not that the book is a transcript of the podcast, but they are of a piece. (Maybe that's just his writing style? -- I wasn't really familiar with his work before this.)

The book is kind of weird because it jumps from topic to topic in a way that I found disorienting in text, even if it makes sense in a podcast

I may be in the minority but I love Rob and find Yasi insufferable.

;_;

I love VegemiteGrrl however!

:D

Yasi is not for everyone — a friend bailed on her after 20 minutes because he didn't like all her patter. Which I can see, I just mostly find it likable. I enjoy her enthusiasm and how much research she puts into the long episodes.

Early Yasi was insufferable, but she’s really found her stride.

I was on a long drive and I just wanted something on so I put on an episode in the early days, back when they still had the tracks mixed in, and I really struggled with her but at some point after x hours she really clicked for me. Rob is incredible though.

I basically think she's hilarious and a great host but four hours is a long time to spend with anyone!

Mr. Brightside episode has some highlights, but never really wrestles with the central issue that the song, and the entire subgenre to which it belongs, is extremely mid and forgettable after it's over, yet also somehow very annoying while it's playing. No mention at all of the ear-sandpaper vocal and guitar tones! And he calls himself a music journalist.

I mean, I always hated it and thought it was just another '00s radio single, but realized at some point that it became this huge anthem/meme/bar singalong?

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/16vg21o/how_did_it_end_up_like_this/

Mr. Brightside rules

but why was it recorded via a drive-thru speaker

to make it rule harder

yeah, I'm ok with later Flowers but Hot Fuss vocals sound like bad karaoke.

i guess maybe Rob thinks it is not forgettable nor annoying? (i agree with him)

I was at a bad bar earlier this week where the country band played every single recognizable Fleetwood Mac song, plus Mr Brightside.

Mr. Brightside is the most popular rock song of this century. It has 600 million more Spotify streams than Seven Nation Army even.

being more down to earth: it's partially a personal blind spot. i don't remember it being a hit, or the people i was around being into it at all, though i believe some of the hipster party kids 3-4 years younger than me were into something called "The Killers." it just never had a "moment" in my world --- so it's like finding out that some semi-flop single has sneakily become a generational touchstone.

i guess that's the "Don't Stop Believin'" story, but at least there I can track the steps along the way, and the song itself is at least checking the boxes for a karaoke anthem. "Mr. Brightside" just seems like a middling and morose second-album Strokes song. i'm sitting here reading the lyrics to the chorus and i can't even hear it in my head. it's *weird* that it has 2.5 billion plays on Spotify! that's more than Don't Stop Believin'! and Smells Like Teen Spirit, Wonderwall and Lose Yourself!

Lol you can't hear "But it's just the PRICE I PAY! Destiny is CALLING ME! Open up your EAGER EYES!" in your head

I guess the idea of being cuckolded by Eric Roberts because you're too busy trying to become a rock star really spoke to a certain generation

I am with Dr. Casino on this one, though I do think the song is more annoying than forgettable, and kind of exemplary of why I don't like a lot of 00s rock

the song was def a huge hit at the time, though it was a slow burner even then. it took over a year for it to reach its #10 peak on the hot 100

find the conversational/confessional voice he uses in this series to be far more effective in audio than written form.

Finished the book a few weeks ago, and totally agree (re the book; I don't know the podcast). He uses self-deprecation to a degree that, honestly, became annoying at a certain point. I say that as someone who sometimes falls prey to the same in my own writing, but--I'm pretty sure--nothing like what's in Harvilla's book. I liked the mix of songs, no complaints there, and thought it a good snapshot of the decade. But I did force myself to keep reading.

I'm breaking in, sorry.

I never did finish the book, I found it that what worked for me in spoken word didn't translate to prose so well

@PK: nope! i can't even hear the dick-rhyming line to which Harvilla devotes so much (entertaining) attention. i can conjure up a general sense of Flowers's scratchy-filtered voice making some syllables but that's it.

i'll freely concede that this might be some weird quirk of my brain. i am generally VERY susceptible to earwormy, head-sticky pop, so when something doesn't trip that wire and just sorta sits there for me, i can end up generalizing that it must be incompetently-made pop. just very rare for that to happen with a song that does these kinda numbers, ime.

I relistened to Mr Brightside, and the singing is fine. I was thinking of Somebody Told Me. Can't remember if Rob mentioned the Ode to Joy similarity.

man, where WERE y'all in 2005? This song was omnipresent and in 2025 as far as I can tell it hasn't gone anywhere. Bar bands cover it. At my local karaoke joint men and women sing it. My students know it. Part of its popularity is, yeah, Flowers sounds like a guy at karaoke after three beers.

Indeed. It's a performance which he does incredibly well. That he has since gone off to make messianic concept albums about the loneliness of a Mormon dweeb in Sin City is his own lookout.

well, it's just the price you pay

yeah it was definitely huge in 2005 - and tbh still a favorite for me (sorry not sorry)

i think it’s the confessional element but also almost call-response (only as kiss) plus the frantic energy that begins w the first line that just kind of keeps you in a chokehold and doesnt let up until the build & whooosh big old wave of the chorus release
it’s just mathematically how good earworm songs work imo

Part of its appeal, I think, is how the song codes more gay than straight. Gay men will more likely find themselves looking for the guy they kissed at the bar or dance floor and catching him smooching another guy.

it’s yearning-coded

”Mr. Brightside" just seems like a middling and morose second-album Strokes song.

More like third album, IMO…

like the strokes a lot but julian has never been intelligible enough for the group to have a real shout-a-long chorus

tbf i am soft on the Strokes chronology because while they were much more on my radar, they also did nothing for me (though i eventually warmed up on the one with livelier guitar parts, "Someday"). more mid-tempo uncommitted drive-thru vocals and guitar parts, bleah!

I've just listened to Mr. Brightside a few times back to back. i get the yearning-coded-ness. but i really dislike the way each single piece of this is recorded. the guitars and vocals are the standout sandpaper elements but i think the drums are also very exhausting to listen to. the main guitar riff is all right on paper (kind of a "What's My Age Again" thing) even if i hate the sound of it. i kinda like the "zoom, zewp, zepp, zopp" distortion bits after "let me go." the "Ode to Joy" quotation borders on the too-cutesy but doesn't really bother me.

the best part is definitely the jealousy-sinks-into-the-sea part, although it's naggingly reminiscent of some other song. i keep wanting to say "Freak of the Week" by Marvelous 3 but that's not it - maybe it'll come to me. Jimmy Eat World? idk.

but truth be told i do think my ultimate issue is with the vocal performance. i can't hear this as anything but affected, going for an image of... hipness? removal? adultness? is there a name for this style of singing? Franz Ferdinand were doing the same thing and i found it distancing and phony there too - like a Hot Topic costume of a too-cool-for-emo "rocker." i do like that in this song he starts to let it go a bit sometimes, like his little jealousy tantrum is so intense he can't keep up his front any more. but it you're gonna do this hormonal desperate jealousy thing i feel like you want fewer sonic walls between you and the audience.

nothing against anyone who loves this song --- it's always a struggle to try to verbalize why something DOESN'T land with me. i should probably stick to writing praise of songs I adore tbh!

;_; cannot abide this Brandon Flowers attack

lol jk

Dr. C – what do you think of this? (roughly same era)

I thought a FIFA or MLB game terrorized me with Mr. Brightside at every menu but that appears to be a false memory.

https://vgost.fandom.com/wiki/The_Killers

@morrisp - hm! on a first listen I'd say I like that a little better. it's got a lot of the same elements (vocal style, vocal effect, relentless rhythm section). but i appreciate that the guitar playing opens up into something a little more forceful here and there (right before the "come on, get gone" part). and there are a few moments where either the drummer or bassist adds a splash of life that's missing for me in Mr. Brightside. i think fundamentally though that this style of rock just isn't for me.

I was around in 2005 and actually listening to the radio then but I remember Somebody Told Me being played much more.

I like the 'I got soul but I'm not a soldier' song best. That one was catchy.

I was disappointed that in the Nickleback episode he didn't mention that they suck, I was sure it was going to come up at some point.

We need to find out what other Alternative staples Casino hasn't heard/not sure about and sequel this: In Which Doctor Casino Listens to Classic Rock Classics for the First Time

In full disclosure, I'm slightly younger than the good Doc. and had basically given up on Alternative Radio by '04-05. However I was aware of the Killers at the time, although more for "Somebody Told Me" than "Mr. Brightside" (which I do remember getting talked about a bit on ILM back then more than I actually heard it). Seems like the Killers got the commercial heat in the states that critics wanted/expected Franz Ferdinand to get.

doc casino, have you seen the brightside music video? feel like that was a major part of its initial run (tho it has obviously blown past that now)

ha!

and yeah, I would have bet a million bucks that "Take Me Out" was a wayyyyy bigger hit, and more of a keystone of the "indie crossover" moment, than anything by The Killers.

xpost no, def never seen the video

Did we ever figure out if we were human or dancer?

biggest “indie” crossover hit was likely “pumped up kicks”

Which was way later...

I always mix that one up with Young Folks

I, too, only eventually became aware that the "The Killers" band was getting really big with a certain set... I was still fairly plugged in at the time, but I guess they were breaking in a slightly different part of the culture than mine. I had to listen to "Mr. Brightside" earlier, to remember which song it was ("Somebody Told Me"'s chorus comes more readily to mind, so I guess I heard that more).

Oh hey, turns out “Stressed Out” has more streams than Brightside.

xpost two completely different eras, indeed

"Pumped Up Kicks" is this thread: Hip™ for Basics

Pumped Up Kicks a much better song and more effective earworm imo - but absolutely a different era, fully six years later.

Wouldn't even fit in the "the 2000s" series of this show!

this thread just gets more and more depressing lol

The pumped up kicks singer shrugs his shoulders to keep time while singing, and it is unforgivable.

The "Pumped Up Kicks" vocal is way worse than Brandon Flowers'.

disagree! it's less ambitious but also less annoying. I'll go as far as saying that the vocals on the Pumped Up Kicks verse are the weakest aspect of the song, right next to the vocals on the bridge. the chorus is essential, however.

i can't hear this as anything but affected, going for an image of... hipness? removal? adultness?

britishness

but yeah count me in as so completely checked out of popular music in the 00s that I barely recognize this song and also find it vanishes from memory instantly (it has a vague Veronica Mars soundtrack feel for me, like I'm sure I've heard it before but). I did enjoy this podcast ep though

I did think it slightly odd that Harvilla specifically mentioned Hunky Dory but didn't connect this song to Queen Bitch, which I feel like it resonates with quite a bit?

ya “pumped up kicks” was a different era, just trying to think of the most inescapable indie-adjacent song i could think of

don’t really think of the killers as indie at all tbh, they were signed to island from the jump and were fully separate from what was going on in nyc at the time

What’s going to happen in this thread when he does an episode on I Write Sins Not Tragedies?

This was, looking back, not a time in which I was very connected to the rock-music market. I spent a lot of time with Modest Mouses's Good News, as a Mouse loyalist, the Brian Wilson Smile album (hot on the heels of discovering the Sea of Tunes bootleg of the original), and the GBV greatest hits from the previous year. But I think I was mostly taking in my friend's bands, and pop and hip-hop singles via the radio and MP3 filesharing. Plus a lot of crate-digging --- this would have been my big Parliament period I think, right before my Nilsson period. So maybe it's not so weird that I missed the Killers' big moment.

i am DEF looking forward to an emo episode or two

Pumped Up Kicks a much better song and more effective earworm imo

Doc, you are navigating this thread revival with grace and humility, so i mean this in the kindest way possible: what in the actual fuck

yeah srsly

Good thing Pumped Up Kicks doesn’t have any annoying vocal effects

That track also has that squeaky synth bit.

can we talk less about that cursed song

otm

lol alpine static

did not expect to find myself here defending Pumped Up Kicks, a very flawed song but an earworm to be sure. it has that catchy bassline! and elusive, intriguing, likely stupid lyrics like "Ronald's got a quick hand" and "i said your hair's on fire, must have lost your wits." most importantly tho it has a chorus that, probably from the first time i heard it, will be in my head til I'm 90. i STILL can't remember Mr. Brightside's and I listened to the damn thing fout times in a row on my train ride two hours ago.

~calls security~

Love the "Brightside" ref in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XOt2Vh0T8w

hell, even Usher played that bass line himself:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8v0aka

Oops, try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMEuA7HbiiY

lol WOW

i like the organ part they added to that arrangement, at least

Well, it's a real singer, as opposed to the squeaky white dude.

yeah but he also seems severely miscast

the squeaky white dude? Yeah

Is it a song about shooting people who wear bad sneakers?

Squeaky Homme

this is unfair, I'm sure Foster is a lovely guy

fwiw it's definitely a Jeremy-esque tale of a seething youth planning some horrible violence based on petty perceived slights.

Mr. Brightside, I mean. Pumped Up Kicks is about Reebok's "Pump" sneakers. I guess Usher really loved those things!

Ok but seriously, I realized what song my brain was prompting Mr. Brightside to turn into: Call Your Girlfriend!!!Specifically with "the only way her heart will mend..." replacing "destiny is calling me..." and lifting the song up into something. Now that's a chorus, right there.

Okay, weighing in. I've heard "Pumped Up Kicks" maybe three times and thought the chorus was catchy and didn't notice the rest of it. Never heard of "Mr. Brightside," it took me a few seconds to figure out who does it. A coworker tried to get me into the Killers once and I heard half a song and rejected it. Apart from that, all I know about the Killers is that they are from Vegas (I think?) and the main guy has feathers on his outfit sometimes.

Just relistened to PUK and I liked it less than I remembered. It's catchy but empty. Nice chorus. It does not bother me. I would never seek it out again or pay money for it but I would not turn it off if it came on the radio. Doc is right, the chorus will always be there in the same way that the Oscar Meyer jingle is always playing in some corner of my brain.

Just heard Brightside for the first time and it is not for me. It is more ambitious than PUK and seems stuffed to the gills with big feelings. They sound like what I think Billy Corgan wants to sound like. That's what he's aiming for. Like PUK, I don't hate this song but because it's so much busier it refuses to fade into the background or groove. I have to wrestle with it and get up close to it and I'm just not attracted to it enough to get that close to this song. I would grimace and turn it off. There are no immediate hooks, if I try to remember what it sounded like there is static.

Listened to Brightside again while watching the video. I like it more his time but I still don't like it. God he's wordy. Maybe if the Strokes and the Pumpkins mated? Ugh, it's so gloppy. The production is like, all maxed out or something.

Both songs kinda stink. "Pumped Up Kicks" doesn't do enough to maintain interest and "Mr. Brightside" is doing too much.

It blows my mind that Mr Brightside is that huge. I had no idea.

I love that ILM take on Brightside is that it’s unmemorable and hookless.

i love all of you sweet summer children who have never heard these songs but can some GROWNUPS please join this thread before my elderly skeleton turns to dust

We sound like a bunch of guys staring a hammer and trying to figure out why someone would use it to nail something

i feel ATTACKED

“Mr. Brightside” reminds me most of “Born Slippy”… the tempo & vocal cadence.

Just heard Brightside for the first time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbUYVcaF_l0

I'm a 48 year old music nerd with big odd gaps in my knowledge. I grew up in the middle of nowhere with no cable and no good radio. never spent much time in bars or listening to the radio and I don't stream music. Most of the music I listen to is what I have sought out or friends have turned me on to. This song came out in 2004, a year after I was done with college which is probably when my musical inputs started to diminish.

Now my fifteen year old tells me about things but I don't think she's ever mentioned the Killers. I don't think she'd like them. I heard her singing a Shonen Knife song the other day and I told her that I saw them open for Nirvana. She was shocked that I knew who they were. Her 13 year old best friend is a Raincoats freak. Kids that are into music are mainlining so much stuff that it blows my mind. I can get nostalgic about how I really got a lot out of my 15 cds when I was a kid, because that's all I had. I knew Full Moon Fever backwards and forwards. The Kids nowadays are just hoovering up the tunes like there's no tomorrow. My kid was listening to Otis Redding the other day. But she keeps up with the current stuff. Sorry, I'm rambling about my damn kids now.

I knew Full Moon Fever backwards and forwards

Painted in a corner / And all she wants to do / Is dance down at the Zombie Zoo

love that Shonen Knife development! (and hella jealous you saw that show).

Megadeth dude's drum part really helps the song. They should do that with all the band members... It'd be like a Ship of Theseus.

Vintage ILM:

Mr brightside

Where was Mr Brightside's refrain stolen from???

I have come to the conclusion that Mr Brightside by The Killers might just be the best song of the past ten years

Pumped Up Kicks is a better bad song than any of the Killers bad songs. It’s memorably bad, the Killers are grocery store radio music.

I've never heard either in a grocery store.

Definitely have heard PUK in a grocery store.

Add me to the "always confuse PUK with Young Folks" brigade.

“Mr. Brightside” is in that unique, thin zone of singles I won’t stan for but that are ridiculously fun to sing along to in an exaggerated way while pretending you’re experiencing a mild seizure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6DyPsCXxIk

nine min remix for the haters, more time to soak in the patina left by the billions of drunken feelings rubbed onto the song over the past two decades

To all the people who claim to not understand "Mr. Brightside," may I suggest a certain podcast episode?

I can't deal with Harvilla. I can handle him as a guest on Bandsplain but I can't get through an episode of his show. Sometimes when he speaks it starts to get a little close to slam poetry or something, I don't know.

try it on 1.4X speed

The Jacques Lu Cont remix was my #1 single of 2005. Still is.

A couple of friends of mine are in a cover band called the Stone Cold Killers (playing songs by STP, Coldplay and the Killers), simultaneously explaining the '90s, the early '00s, and also why I'm probably never going to see them play.

I keep laughing about 1) clown cars and ii) blurry bigfoot.

One thing that really bugged me was the assertion (I think by Sean Fennessy) that QOTSA is just Josh Homme and whoever he has around. Most of the current members have all been in place for over a decade.

Funny episode. The comedians are classic but what cracked me up this morning was all the Monster Magnet stuff.

yeah the Monster Magnet stuff was great