Big Thief - Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You

out Feb. 11, 2022

https://bigthief.bandcamp.com/album/dragon-new-warm-mountain-i-believe-in-you?from=fanpub_fb

Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You is a sprawling double-LP exploring the deepest elements and possibilities of Big Thief. To truly dig into all that the music of Adrianne Lenker, Max Oleartchik, Buck Meek, and James Krivchenia desired in 2020, the band decided to write and record a rambling account of growth as individuals, musicians, and chosen family over 4 distinct recording sessions. In Upstate New York, Topanga Canyon, The Rocky Mountains, and Tucson, Arizona, Big Thief spent 5 months in creation and came out with 45 completed songs. The most resonant of this material was edited down into the 20 tracks that make up DNWMIBIY, a fluid and adventurous listen. The album was produced by drummer James Krivchenia who initially pitched the recording concept for DNWMIBIY back in late 2019 with the goal of encapsulating the many different aspects of Adrianne’s songwriting and the band onto a single record.

In an attempt to ease back into life as Big Thief after a long stretch of Covid-19 related isolation, the band met up for their first session in the woods of upstate New York. They started the process at Sam Evian’s Flying Cloud Recordings, recording on an 8-track tape machine with Evian at the knobs. It took a while for the band to realign and for the first week of working in the studio, nothing felt right. After a few un-inspired takes the band decided to take an ice-cold dip in the creek behind the house before running back to record in wet swimsuits. That cool water blessing stayed with Big Thief through the rest of the summer and many more intuitive, recording rituals followed. It was here that the band procured ‘Certainty’ and ‘Sparrow’.

For the next session in Topanga Canyon, California, the band intended to explore their bombastic desires and lay down some sonic revelry in the experimental soundscape-friendly hands of engineer Shawn Everett. Several of the songs from this session lyrically explore the areas of Lenker’s thought process that she describes as “unabashedly as psychedelic as I naturally think,” including ‘Little Things’, which came out of this session. The prepared acoustic guitars and huge stomp beat of today’s ‘Time Escaping’ create a matching, otherworldly backdrop for the subconscious dream of timeless, infinite mystery. When her puppy Oso ran into the vocal booth during the final take of the song, Adrianne looked down and spoke “It’s Music!” to explain in the best terms possible the reality of what was going on to the confused dog. “It’s Music Oso!”

The third session, high in the Colorado Rockies, was set up to be a more traditional Big Thief recording experience, working with UFOF and Two Hands engineer Dom Monks. Monks' attentiveness to song energies and reverence for the first take has become a huge part of the magic of Thief’s recent output. One afternoon in the castle-like studio, the band was running through a brand new song ‘Change’ for the first time. Right when they thought it might be time to do a take, Monks came out of the booth to let them know that he’d captured the practice and it was perfect as it was.  

The final session, in hot-as-heaven Tucson, Arizona, took place in the home studio of Scott McMicken. The several months of recording had caught up to Big Thief at this point so, in order to bring in some new energy, they invited long-time friend Mat Davidson of Twain to join. This was the first time that Big Thief had ever brought in a 5th instrumentalist for such a significant contribution. His fiddle, and vocals weave a heavy presence throughout the Tucson tracks. If the album's main through-line is its free-play, anything-is-possible energy, then this environment was the perfect spot to conclude its creation — filling the messy living room with laughter, letting the fire blaze in the backyard, and ripping spontaneous, extended jams as trains whistled outside. 

All 4 of these sessions, in their varied states of fidelity, style, and mood, when viewed together as one album seem to stand for a more honest, zoomed-out picture of lived experience than would be possible on a traditional, 12 song record. This was exactly what the band hoped would be the outcome of this kind of massive experiment. When Max’s mom asked on a phone call what it feels like to be back together with the band playing music for the first time in a year, he described to the best of abilities: “Well it’s like, we’re a band, we talk, we have different dynamics, we do the breaths, and then we go on stage and suddenly it feels like we are now on a dragon. And we can’t really talk because we have to steer this dragon.”

excited in a vague melancholy way

dang, "time escaping" really pops for a song with no bass!

Regular readers of these threads will know that I've been obsessed w/"Time Escaping" since the concert footage on YouTube last year, and have been waiting for this moment. This recording is... very different from what I was expecting! But I like it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkIvGej2WyI

wow the studio version of "time escaping" is really quite different, that's a wild sound. it's great though.

crazy to think there could easily be another double album coming after this with all the material they recorded.

i don't think they've played full-band versions of "heavy bend" and "the only place", and i don't think "no reason" and "love love love" have been heard at all

though there aren't good bootlegs out there of all the songs they have been playing but based on what's out there this album's going to be at least 90% fantastic

Recent video of Adrianne performing Time Escaping

I like the album version, it's cool. I'm struggling a little with the newest material overall so far (and also with that album title!) I feel like they've gone in an extremely stonery direction that I don't know if I love.

xp

"i'm actually imagining this part being really big, in my head"
:D

i'm also worried that the very hippie band who recently released an album that was short for "UFO Friend" might have discovered marijuana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C_ax0XYn1E

here's the early 2020 live version of "time escaping" for anyone who's curious

It's music! :)

Change 4:55
Time Escaping 3:48
Spud Infinity 5:34
Certainty 3:07
Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You 4:43
Sparrow 5:11
Little Things 5:44
Heavy Bend 1:36
Flower of Blood 4:24
Blurred View 4:06
Red Moon 4:19
Dried Roses 2:35
No Reason 3:47
Wake Me Up to Drive 3:43
Promise Is a Pendulum 5:12
12,000 Lines 2:59
Simulation Swarm 4:12
Love Love Love 4:13
The Only Place 3:14
Blue Lightning 3:51

here's track times

They're obviously hippies, but (not to split hairs) I don't really get a "stoner" vibe from this era... it's more focused, conscious, and "present" than that.

The final verse of "Time Escaping" knocks me out:

Only the winter wind survives
After the heat rush feeds and thrives
After the bushfire burns and dies
Frozen and bitter
Desert ground so cold and clean
Spreading out like a magazine
Reading the dirt like gossip
What do the weeds say? They say
“Everything, everything, everything falls through
Each dimension breaks in two
Like the two hands clapping
Like the two wings flapping
Everything, everything, everything for free
As it all eventually
Turns to dust and petal
Molten rock and meadow"

i have always been lukewarm on this band but i like all these songs and am now officially stoked for this long-ass album

love that there is a new thread for this new album, really looking forward to this

just watched a couple of live videos

they all just fit together so well. the four of them, i mean.

I'm pretty lukewarm on most of the new songs released so far but I like the studio Time Escaping more and more. Hope there is more stuff like that that goes in interesting new sonic directions and not just the woodsy folksy stuff like Change (which is not *bad* but seems a bit by the numbers).

No Reason / Spud Infinity are out now

some beautiful guitar in "No Reason"

"no reason" is so gorgeous wow

love the flute

I listened to these tracks like 5 times in row this morning... can't wait for the album, it's gonna be so great!

"no reason", "little things" and "time escaping" all some of the very very best things they've ever done

Best working band right now

Going thru the tracknoms rn and Time Escaping is....wild? And kinda great? Reminds me of when Wilco do something weird, like Art Of Almost or something

i think 'american radiohead' works better for big thief (though still obviously pretty silly) than it ever did for wilco

I think they are on the REM track and they are just coming out of their IRS years

is that to suggest this will be their “Green”?

the coda of "no reason" really takes it to the next level. while "spud infinity" is good but absolutely a minute too long

I think “Spud Infinity” is an amazing song… that juxtaposition of the earthy and the abstract, right there in the title, is beautifully realized in the lyric.

I'm at a loss on how to describe/characterize these new songs... they're "cosmic Americana" in a certain way, but not in a way that usually fits that definition (and I wouldn't necessarily RIYL them along those lines). They're intense, joyful, lucid meditations on nature, time, and reality; using Americana as a vehicle, but not at all contstrained by what that term normally entails.

is that to suggest this will be their “Green”?

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, December 16, 2021 bookmarkflaglink

yes, possibly!

this is the best this band has ever sounded, to me

(besides "Not")

TE >>> Not imo

i've listened to "little things" so many times. now when i'm having a beer i like to sing "drinking a beeeeer" to myself

Haha, me too :)

Yeah, maybe ... TE > Not ... maybe Little Things, too. i didn't necessarily mean forever, just that i've listened to Not a thousand times and these haven't had a chance to overtake it yet.

i didn't say that, but i was thinking it ... or something

collectively, though, i love these songs

“Spud Infinity” reminds me of Michael Hurley. Fantastic.

"little things", "time escaping" & "no reason" all > "not", as good as "not" is

I was just forwarded this (haven't read it yet): https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/big-thief-new-album-adrianne-lenker-interview-1272814/

it's a good read, most interesting tidbits are that "wake me up to drive" is "drum-machine pop" (which makes sense actually revisiting the live version) & they directly suggest that there could be another album's worth of material to be released from the dragon sessions

!!

they were already hinting that it was a possibility in a previous interview (45 songs were recorded so it could even be another double), just a bit more here

Through it all, the band held on to a firm internal sense of self. “We all have our own Big Thief-i-ness barometers,” says Krivchenia. “We did some stuff that, listening back to it, we were like, ‘Wow, people would flip if they heard this… but it’s not Big Thief-y.'”

Aw… don’t do me like that, man

japanese version has two bonus tracks, "dragon new warm mountain i believe in you (tucson version)" and "light is as is". the tucson sessions were where they recorded the album's rootsier material so i imagine it'll be quite a different take on "dragon"

I am very much hoping that 2022 is the year I get to see Big Thief live. None of the currently announced dates are anywhere near me, but maybe there will be more ...

Through it all, the band held on to a firm internal sense of self. “We all have our own Big Thief-i-ness barometers,” says Krivchenia. “We did some stuff that, listening back to it, we were like, ‘Wow, people would flip if they heard this… but it’s not Big Thief-y.'”

Aw… don’t do me like that, man

― i woke up alarmed (morrisp), Friday, January 7, 2022 12:27 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is such an important part of being a good band

"Simulation Swarm" is out now. Sounds a little like something off U.F.O.F., with a country turn in the chorus.

so good, love the fretless bass

DRINKING A BEEEEEEEEEER

I stopped listening to the pre-release tracks, I'm just ready to luxuriate in the whole thing.

this album is going to be incredible and i am already annoyed at how it will inevitably renew the big thief backlash

not so sure - i'm someone who was not a very big Big Thief fan (i found the songs sort of muddy and land-locked) but almost everything in the past year has been extraordinary, full of grace and lift, and it's turned me from backlasher into fan

ive been listening to the pre release tracks as a mini album of sorts, after ignoring the stuff for nearly all of 2021. flows nicely, tho nearly every track they’ve released since “little things” has been better than that one

i think that “spud infinity” is my favorite, big old weird america feeling going on

I'm extremely ready for this album to be of varying quality, like all their albums ;)

is there a big thief backlash? i don't want to meet these people irl

The little woodwind & gtr jam at the end of "No Reason" is such hot sh1t... I just love it

exact same sitch as sean gramophone for me.

there will be a backlash, but it'll be dwarfed by the "album of the year / america's best band" hype, i bet.

I thought the backlash happened already (that NYT editor who called them "emperor's new clothes" or whatever)

I wish you could do backlashes where you were like 'yeah they're pretty good but there's quite a few bands I prefer', but the Discourse doesn't like that sort of equivocation, they either have to be The Best or Overrated Nonsense

I will say this: much as I've enjoyed the other preview songs so far, I just don't get what's good about Little Things at all

I wish you could do backlashes where you were like 'yeah they're pretty good but there's quite a few bands I prefer',

thats not a backlash that's you.

I just don't get what's good about Little Things at all

It sounds like listening to your Walkman on a warm summer night in 1989, watching the stars come out...

good description, i think i like it now!

it's this wild shifting shimmering thing & their playing is incredible, really highlights their chemistry as a band. it's also just really distinct & fresh, what else out there actually sounds like this? it's interesting because it's really one of their least singer-songwritery tunes, much more of a free-flowing jam where the vocals weave in and out in the same way as the lead guitar. has anyone figured out what's actually going on with the time signature yet

i wasn't on board with them (i'd heard capacity and wasn't moved though i had enjoyed abysskiss a little) until i was blown away by u.f.o.f. and returning to capacity since then made it really open up for me.

Through it all, the band held on to a firm internal sense of self. “We all have our own Big Thief-i-ness barometers,” says Krivchenia. “We did some stuff that, listening back to it, we were like, ‘Wow, people would flip if they heard this… but it’s not Big Thief-y.'”

Isn't this what b-sides are for?

Good point!

Looking forward to "Big Thief Gets Weird."

In the meantime I'm guessing this next one will be their strongest record by far.

reports from those who've got the album early are that the studio version of "dragon" is a mellow folk tune like adrianne's solo version and not the awesome rock version they've been playing live

hope the rock version is the jp bonus track then

I heard some folks' preorders are arriving already

With this album, Big Thief stand to become my second-favourite Wilco, ahead of Califone

You mentioned that in another thread; I don’t really hear a Wilco connection

I think Time Escaping is when I realised they could pull off the 'art Americana' thing; it reminded me of Art Of Almost a bit. Here's to them overriding their Big Thiefiness barometers more in future

they're better at being "the american radiohead" than wilco ever were

folk version of the title track is absolutely gorgeous but i still hope we get a studio version of the live version

one of the prettiest things they've ever done

yeah this is clearly their best album but also surprisingly cohesive, it's not really a wildly eclectic double album like it seemed like it was shaping up to be. it's all firmly within the folk/country/dreamy rock vibe they'd established even if they get creative with the arrangements. i get why they didn't put the rock "dragon" on here, it would have been quite a departure from that vibe.

read that they recorded the title track at each of their recording locations and might release several of the versions down the road

yeah there's another version coming on the japanese release as a bonus track and if that's not the live version then they're the sort of band where it seems totally possible for it to show up on the second album from these sessions they've indicated is also on the way.

on first listen my favourite of the unreleased tracks are the title track & "flower of blood" which is vaguely cocteau twins-esque

How’s “Red Moon”?

it's good, sounds pretty much like the live version except with additional fiddle, like most of the other country tracks

the album is really so good all the way through, like "sparrow" is probably the weakest track and it's still better in context

lenker is the best songwriter of her generation

"wake me up to drive" is almost a magnetic fields song

lenker is the best songwriter of her generation

― ufo, Monday, 7 February 2022 12:15 (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

while this may be a decent shout, a reminder that a certain ms natalie mering is going to be releasing something this year ;)

nonetheless i am excited to hear this in full, hopefully it'll be arresting all the way through

lenker is the best songwriter of her generation

don't disagree with that, really, but give me Liz Stokes.

Does anyone know why that colored vinyl version on bandcamp is called "eco-friendly"? Is it made out of root beer flavored hard candy or something?

i'd guess it's made from recycled PVC?

i ordered it but now i'm worried that if it's made out of root beer flavored candy i will lick all the grooves away :(

just preordered the regular black vinyl on bandcamp, been trying to avoid this thread and hearing the pre-release tracks

i find that, for me, the way albums are rolled out now with 4-5 advanced tracks trickling out over a few months tends to diminish my enjoyment for whatever reasons

really excited to hear this

all BIG SHOUT OUT TO BIG THIEF FOR SANE VINYL pricing - $25 for a double LP, not bad at all

I don't like this thing where they prerelease like 10 different tracks then make you wait a long ass time for the whole record. IDGI

Well the time flew, we’re 4 days away now…!

the 6 month rollout releasing nearly half of it as singles beforehand was a bit much yeah

insane record

ppl keep comparing it to the white album, but imo it is a thousand percent more tusk

yeah absolutely

if this was their white album then it'd lean into the eclecticism more and have a bunch of goofy throwaways but it's great and cohesive pretty much the whole way through

I love the idea of releasing so many advance tracks

what's it gonna taaaaake
what's it gonna taaaaake
what's it gonna taaaaake

to free
the ce-
lestial
body

"spud infinity" is so basement tapes in the best way

Does anyone know why that colored vinyl version on bandcamp is called "eco-friendly"? Is it made out of root beer flavored hard candy or something?

― Evan, Monday, February 7, 2022 12:19 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Eco Friendly LP is pressed on recycled vinyl and will be a completely random color makeup. Albums will ship around release, February 11, 2022.

https://shopusa.4ad.com/dragon-new-warm-mountain-i-believe-in-you

https://uproxx.com/indie/big-thief-dragon-new-warm-mountain-i-believe-in-you-review/

The New Big Thief Album Is A Masterpiece
Steven Hyden

They recorded 45 songs in all, 20 of which are included on their staggering new double album, Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You. This may strike some as hyperbole but I don’t care because it’s true: As strong as the other Big Thief albums are, they feel like rough drafts for what they’ve finally achieved here. I’ve had a promo of Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You for a few months, and it already feels like the kind of album that’s destined to be handed down from generation to generation, like Automatic For The People or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. It’s music I know I will reach for on epic road trips or in the midst of profound grief. An all-timer. A masterpiece. They really did it this time.

I lol'd a little at those other names, only b/c it gives the impression that an album needs to have at least 15 syllables in its title to be passed down from generation to generation.

I still have my great grandfather's copy of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

I still haven't heard this in full yet and I'm already salivating at the thought of another one with the rest of the sessions.

xp LMAO

he doesn't care because it's true

also: yes, good one mizzell. i lol'd

for anyone curious about the breakdown of tracks from each of the recording sessions that made up the album, here you go

Demo recorded at The Elf Inn
"Promise is a Pendulum"

Flying Cloud Studios, NY with Sam Evian
"Certainty"
"Sparrow"
"Heavy Bend"
"12,000 Lines"

Five Star Studios, Topanga Canyon, CA with Shawn Everett
"Time Escaping"
"Little Things"
"Blurred View"
"Simulation Swarm"

Studio In The Clouds, CO with Dom Monks
"Change"
"Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You"
"Flower of Blood"
"No Reason"
"Love Love Love"
"The Only Place"

Press On Studio, Tucson, AZ with Scott McMicken
"Spud Infinity"
"Red Moon"
"Dried Roses"
"Wake Me Up to Drive"
"Blue Lightning"

biggest surprise is "wake me up to drive" being from the tucson sessions, which otherwise were much more country oriented & fiddle-heavy

They recorded 45 songs in all, 20 of which are included on their staggering new double album

almost more stoked for this album's Amnesiac

yeah they've already been saying they want to release the outtakes, probably as another double album

at this point i pretty much believe they could have just released it all as a quadruple album and gotten away with it

trying to think of a precedent for that. Have One On Me wasn't as long as I remember it being

autechre?

sun-el musician put out a 2 hour 40 min "double album" in 2020

smashing pumpkins probably could have gotten close with both mcis & machina but they/their label were cowards

Press On Studio, Tucson, AZ with Scott McMicken

Was not expecting a Dr. Dog connection! (Annual appeal for folks to give “Fate” an honest listen. One of my favorite albums of the 00s.)

that breakdown of the sessions makes me wanna hear "Blurred View" ... the other three songs magical in sort of the same way

although right now my fave is "Certainty"

They just did an Insta livestream; they were working out a new song in someone’s house. It was pretty sweet

Some good running comments from viewers:

“Whatcha think of Time Skiffs?”
“This is our Get Back”
“THATS MY GRANDMA”
“buck, te amo”

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/big-thief-dragon-new-warm-mountain-i-believe-in-you/

review gets weirdly hung up on the country tracks despite eventually coming to the correct conclusion. it never at all seemed like those were a schtick, just a natural expansion of their sound. they've been playing spud infinity live for like 5 years and they've been pretty vocal about their love for john prine

it never at all seemed like those were a schtick, just a natural expansion of their sound.

Cush doesn't view it as schtick either imo, according to the review.

as i said 'despite eventually coming to the correct conclusion'

right, I didn't find it weird! I suspect he wanted to address fan expectations

looks like big thief scheduled their nyc shows on the seder nights of passover, hmm...

Love this line in that Cush review: "Twenty times, it asks “What should we do now?”, and twenty times it finds a new answer."

yeah that review is good imo!

love this record but has no one commented on adrienne lenker's pronunciation of the word "knish"?

uh oh, this might be a dealbreaker for me

if she had only consulted with a jew we could have helped her rhyme "finish" with "kiddush" or something instead

oof, I was imagining a soft K.

She's got a lot of chootzpah for that one

if she had consulted a jew, they would've picked different nyc dates!

Anyway, the potato is the point! (My uncle loved that line, fwiw)

AFAIK there is a Jew playing bass in the outfit (not sure why they chose those dates)

one Jew friend on bass, checkmate libs

I did some poking around on Max recently; turns out his dad is a well-known(?) Israeli rock & jazz musician, and his grandfather was a composer(originally from Poland)

I'm sure the shows will sell out anyway (not least with plenty of non-observant Jews buying tickets), and planning a tour is pretty challenging. Is there a northeast city they could have played those days instead that doesn't have a significant Jewish population?

i feel like the only person in the world who hasn't heard the full album yet

i wish it would just come out

I haven't heard it, and haven't listened to most of the tracks that have been released, but I am under the impression it contains a problematic pronunciation of a popular Jewish appetizer

man alive, just being tongue in cheek about the fact that i'll prob have to miss those shows lol

knish-gate

Having read the Pfork review, I totally agree w/ufo's take on this bit (re: "Spud"):

The cumulative effect is something like a full-band version of the goofy southern accent Mick Jagger puts on when he sings country songs, which seems, for him, like a way of putting genre in quotation marks, signaling his awareness of his own inauthenticity by amplifying the hokiest parts of the put-on. Though Big Thief have taken many approaches to their music over the years, this sort of winking magpie postmodernism has not been one of them, so it’s strange to hear them leaning into a schtick.

I just don't hear "schtick" or quotation marks in that song, and I agree that the review gets to the "right place" in the next paragraph... but why even go for that point in the first place?

(Other parts of the write-up are really good, though)

To put it another way - I think the "earthy" style and presentation of that song naturally (and wonderfully) follow from its subject matter.

I agree with that; I don't hear air quotes around the country & western arrangement. But I see where the reviewer is coming from because the Jew's harp boing-boing sounds inherently goofy to me. I also love it and think it suits the song very well.

It's music!

https://uproxx.com/indie/big-thief-dragon-new-warm-mountain-i-believe-in-you-review/

The New Big Thief Album Is A Masterpiece
Steven Hyden
They recorded 45 songs in all, 20 of which are included on their staggering new double album, Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You. This may strike some as hyperbole but I don’t care because it’s true: As strong as the other Big Thief albums are, they feel like rough drafts for what they’ve finally achieved here. I’ve had a promo of Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You for a few months, and it already feels like the kind of album that’s destined to be handed down from generation to generation, like Automatic For The People or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. It’s music I know I will reach for on epic road trips or in the midst of profound grief. An all-timer. A masterpiece. They really did it this time.

― Indexed, Tuesday, February 8, 2022 12:33 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

man he does a really good job of making something dope seem lame as hell

is it out yet? only thing im seeing on streaming is 8 songs called ‘simulation swarm’

out tonight/tomorr

xp if only this was the actual album, a bait-and-switch sci-fi horror

the CD I pre-ordered via 4AD/Bandcamp apparently won't arrive until next Thursday, sadly (keep me in your thoughts during this difficult time)

I pre-ordered from Norman Records and it's been mailed and coming tomorrow.

the CD I pre-ordered via 4AD/Bandcamp apparently won't arrive until next Thursday, sadly (keep me in your thoughts during this difficult time)

― False Pretenses Lad (morrisp), Thursday, February 10, 2022 1:27 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

in the same boat :/

was hoping to avoid listening until i had the vinyl

Listening to UFOF and damn that second half is so good. Really looking forward to this new one

LP has arrived

THIS IS SO GOOD

*finished 80-minute 2xLP*

*immediately goes in for repeat listen*

5 stars. 2 thumbs up, WAY UP! 16 academy award nominations. 11 academy award wins. the hugo award winner for the 5th straight year!

that's my grandma

I listened to half the new songs last nite, but finding it a little hard to "get into" checking out the rest. It's kind of formidable, for some reason! I'll probably have to dip into it here & there.

xp
now they're america's grandma

i'm listening on bluetooth headphones as i go around my apartment doing things, cleaning, working on stuff.

god, perfect ending to the album, too. it's amazing how much these songs go in different directions but the flow is impeccable, particularly on the back half of the album.

Flower of Blood/Blurred View is such a moody combo and then they're kicking it back up again with Red Moon. Brilliant stuff.

I’m coming back up for “blurred mind” for the second time, I can’t wait.

what is this "that's my grandma" thing, what did i miss

it's yelled in one of the songs before an instrumental break

ah ... got it. maybe i will hear it when i stop listening to "Certainty" over and over

LP has arrived

― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Friday, February 11, 2022 7:29 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Waiting on mine to listen to this but might break

here's the video for their hit song "that's my grandma"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMD2OGlgAEg

that's my grandma

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson),

love this moment

i'm on track 2 and this already rules

omg this album

every melodic turn on the title track is like the best thing ever

The closing song is really nice; I also love "Red Moon" (as I already did, from the YT clips). I feel like it will really take some time to settle into the album as a whole. Honestly not sure if knowing half the songs upfront is a benefit or handicap...

haven't listened to the album yet (going to shortly), but i'm thinking that it would make the prospect of diving into a 20-song, 80-minute album a bit less daunting

Fine! I’ll listen to it

I’m not sure what’s more daunting - the sheer length and quantity of songs, or the thick brush of hyperbole that has built up after months of anticipation. I’m having trouble simply sitting and listening to this album.

Other than that stupid review about this being handed down like a treasured family heirloom, I can't say I've seen a lot of hyperbole, just a whole lot of excitement and enthusiasm. But, yeah, I can absolutely see how this comes with a lot of weight behind it.

You should check the threads on ILM

I don't know about hyperbole, per se, but there is a kind of "breakthrough" vibe to this. Like, if anything I feel like their other albums were in their own hard to describe way tougher to get into, but this one, through sheer quantity and consistency (in all its shambling, why not, "Tusk"-y inconsistency) is maybe harder to ignore. I mean, I'm listening to it right now, and my younger kid is decorating a cake, and while I don't know if she likes it, she hasn't told me to turn it off, which is something. It's undeniably pleasant (so far; I'm not done) and is just mysterious enough, just has this great aura about it, like the first couple of Band records or, sure, "Have One on Me."

you know him as joe the policeman from the what's goin down episode of that's my grandma

(lol daughter just told me she doesn't like it, because it's "weird.")

oh my kids HATE big thief

my mum loves this band so idk that their previous stuff was hard to get into or anything

new album certainly has some of their most straight-forward material ever, but also captures them at their most experimental

Just found out that they did a cover of one of my favourite Breeders songs

https://open.spotify.com/track/4NYetbTj4AQnbpUeaqhbVy?si=iRGYx39cS5amV9yiKCqXvg&utm_source=copy-link"> https://open.spotify.com/track/4NYetbTj4AQnbpUeaqhbVy?si=iRGYx39cS5amV9yiKCqXvg&utm_source=copy-link

(Off You in case the link doesn't work)

So far I'm enjoying some of the already released songs more in the context of their album sequence.

Also just taking some time away from them and letting go of expectations that the material be more in line with previous albums.

I do like a lot of what I’m hearing so far and it’s probably not surprising that a lot of my initial responses are to the d already released. For instance I think “Time Escaping” and “Little Things” both sounds much better in context. “Spud Infinity” still grates on me (and it’s more about the chorus than the mouth harp). “Certainty” and “Sparrow” remain standouts; it dawned me that “Certainty” reminds me of Palace Brothers (similar vibes as the Hope ep, or the “For the Mekons” single).

Love the title track. A lot of the rest of the album still sinking in.

xp

I hear a lot of Neil Young and Lucinda Williams. It kinda feels like this is their "country record." I miss the complexity of the past albums a little. Sonically I also feel like there's something less full about it.

Sonically it's their best, though!

It's really good imo! Rhythmically it feels like there's less going on -- I have a half-formed theory about how bands tend to lock into more standard rhythms as their tenures lengthen, not sure I could actually back this idea up but it runs on a parallel track with "bands get less weird as their audience grows" which is generally true. But the combo of the genuinely unique vocal presence -- rare as hell, not without influences but sui genreris for real -- and a solid as fuck band, and affecting melodies and decent lyrics...honestly for me they're like an MFA version of the Band. I don't like MFA fiction/poetry but maybe indie rock is the place where the MFA vibe works for me

generis, for God's own sake

trying to wait until Tuesday, look forward to it

"Not" will probably always be my favorite song by Big Thief, I'd imagine I'm on my own there, but it has something in it that reminds me of Silkworm, the highest calling

That one is up there for me.

honestly for me they're like an MFA version of the Band

I mentioned this before on here – when I got my uncle into the band last year, and he was particularly obsessed w/“Masterpiece” (the song), he said it reminded him of “The Weight.”

Never heard them before today, new Tusk though

pretty ridiculous when you remember that lenker recorded songs & instrumentals only a few months before the sessions that produced both this album & probably another upcoming double album

just heard an interview with meek where he said they did indeed consider putting out all ~45 tracks from these sessions all at once, but with a gimmick where the album would have 5 different tracklists for people to choose between

https://insidethemagic.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/clue_SD1_758_426_81_s_c1-758x400.jpg

ILM EOY #1 album 2022 and I haven’t listened to it yet.

What’s the tracklist on the vinyl (basically what are the first/last tracks of the sides) ?

Discogs has it: https://www.discogs.com/release/22078948-Big-Thief-Dragon-New-Warm-Mountain-I-Believe-In-You

Thanks !

Agreed that in context the already released songs are even better.
Still working on the “new” ones but so far the title track, “flower of blood” and “blurred view” stand out.

ILM EOY #1 album 2022 and I haven’t listened to it yet.

if the follow-up arrives this year too it'll get vote-split and just miss out, again

if there's a backlash it's all created in our minds

so much of what we struggle with is just made up

here's the video for their hit song "that's my grandma"

📹

7 tracks in, and I think this was the followup to UFOF that i wanted. Something about Two Hands never clicked for me (or maybe i just rinsed UFOF so hard that i needed a break from them for a bit). anyway along with the new spoon (and napalm death mini!), what a great week.

just heard an interview with meek where he said they did indeed consider putting out all ~45 tracks from these sessions all at once, but with a gimmick where the album would have 5 different tracklists for people to choose between

lol they should just release the album again but shuffle the tracks and give it a different title and say it's a new record.

I listen to every one of this band's albums a couple times and then I go back to Capacity. I think that po-faced Pinback style was the best compliment to Adrienne's songs/voice, idk! I love her solo album though

on my first play through. three things:

1. the title track is just stunningly gorgeous
2. “little things” has unlocked for me, makes me think of solsbury hill, a smidge
3. still love “spud infinity” and its lyrics that go so far towards the goofy side that they wind up profound

When I say celestial
I mean extraterrestrial
I mean accepting the alien you've rejected in your own heart
When I say heart, I mean finish
The last one there is a potato knish
Baking too long in the sun of Spud Infinity
When I say infinity, I mean now
Kiss the one you are right now
Kiss your body up and down, other than your elbows
'Cause as for your elbows, they're on their own
Wandering like a rolling stone
Rubbing up against the edges of experience

and then the drum mic overloading on the drumfill, right at the end of it, distorting on an off-beat 8th note leading in, just perfect

“wake me up to drive” is quite the curveball, like lenker decided her song was too springsteen and compensated by adding hi-nrg percussion

that one reminds me of earlier magnetic fields, instrumentally

otm

true but that’s a total springsteen melody

i think the outlier here is "flower of blood". it's not that it's bad. i can imagine an album full of songs like that which would absolutely rule. it just doesn't quite fit here

“i wanna be the shoelace that you tie”

Someone mentioned “Hope”-era Palace vibes in places, OTM.

My understanding is basically The Discourse started as a criticism of the way male music critics (& fans) pedestal a select handful of ‘female fronted’ bands & that devolved into whether or not Big Thief is worth the hype in the review of their new album & now it’s memes I think

— allie (@A_philharmonic8) February 12, 2022

twitter yesterday

pretty much entirely a conversation not worth knowing about imo

up until now, only 3 twitters did

nothing like completely ignoring the discourse and listening to a silly song about potatoes

Ignore Twitter entirely it’s very easy

I never see Music Twitter, thankfully

fellas is it “broification” to be into Big Thief? pic.twitter.com/ex8tPgKoRl

— Kory (@Koryisboring) February 10, 2022

Someone mentioned “Hope”-era Palace vibes in places, OTM.

― war mice (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, February 12, 2022 bookmarkflaglink

It’s the combo of a relaxed acoustic vibe, plus Buck’s backing vocals which really reminds me of the person (Sean O’Hagan I think) who sings backup on a lot of Palace songs in that era.

I listen to every one of this band's albums a couple times and then I go back to Capacity. I think that po-faced Pinback style was the best compliment to Adrienne's songs/voice, idk! I love her solo album though

― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, February 12, 2022 10:12 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This is p much me as well, and Pinback is a good and interesting reference point that wouldn’t have occurred to me.

What happens at the beginning of Love Love Love? It’s like they hit record right in the middle of her singing or saying something

Ya I hope I didn’t sound like a naysayer, just that Capacity is some all-time miracle work is all :)

I see lyrics quoted and am impressed I think I prob should be getting more engaged in my engagement with the last few records (listening with lyrics in front of me, that is)

I'm a sucker for the more complex harmonic movement they used a lot on their earlier stuff, and I'm going through a bit of withdrawal with the prevalence of simpler, three or four chord songs here.

I can hear the Pinback comparison. Most songs here seem to do the same sort of very horizontal melodies, specially the vocals. Very “conversational” style of songwriting.

I don’t know how to properly explain it but it also reminds me of Grateful Dead. There is a looseness and freedom - very “jam-like” feeling - to the way it sounds that could only come from very good musicians that have been together for a long time. It sounds as if done in one take, with some weird details that should sound amateurish but are very fun to hear e.g: the way the synths overlap each other at around min 3 on “blurred view” and fade out and agressively reappear again cutted-off a few seconds later.

the “heavy bend - Flower of blood - blurred view” run is a standout for me. I need more of that.

I’ve mentioned Pinback before (which I say not to point out how awesome I am, as you already know that, but as a simple affirmation):

It’s remarkable how many different styles and “moods” they inhabit, while always sounding like themselves. (Some of the songs on Capacity almost have a Pinback feel — that measured, chiming, tick-tock quality.)

― stop creeping my instagram storiez (morrisp), Wednesday, January 15, 2020 7:14 PM

*updates ilm.xls*

morrisp affirms the pinback/capacity connection

Highlight that cell!

i don't get paid nearly enough for this

i love the new one and the band has grown by leaps and bounds but i still think capacity has the best songs

Re: "Wake Me Up to Drive" sounding like a Springsteen / Magnetic Fields hybrid: a friend reminded me that Springsteen actually recorded a very Mag Fields–sounding song (...it doesn't sound much like "Drive," though):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AukvoNJRNQ

sing for you sing for you sing for you sing for you sing for you

i didn't listen to that, but yeah that does sound like bruce covering magnetic fields! the universes are converging

whoa that bruce thing is uncanny

Y'all have made excellent cases for this song or that song with an unearthly arrangement; but my favorite, now, is the acoustic trad "The Only Place."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJMwa0Jb2Dc

rehearsal footage from instagram

'Hope' comparisons spot on, very specific in the Palace canon but correct

“Flower of Blood” sounds to me almost like something that could have been on KROQ or 120 Minutes in the pre-grunge era… like played next to “So Alive” by Love and Rockets.

I’m getting into the new songs by listening to them in batches. They definitely released the most “impactful” songs ahead of time (other than “Red Moon”), which I think does make it a little challenging to wade thru the others.

Yeah “Flower of Blood” has a very shoegaze/alt feel going on in the background. I can’t move forward in the album because I’m obsessed with that run I mentioned earlier.

The hype is real, if only for those 3 songs this is the best I’ve heard from them.

Still absorbing a lot of this but it seems like the comparisons to Tusk and the more jarring style jumps all come in the first half. Most of the second half of the album feels like a more typical Big Thief album. Like, if they’d just released an album from “Red Moon” to the end, we might still call this more country but overall it wouldn’t feel like a major departure.

i don't think it's a much of a departure at all, just a comfortable, natural expansion of what they're capable of. there are plenty of new sounds - the country tracks, "time escaping", "little things", the drum machine on "wake me up to drive" - but they're mostly not too radical shifts from what came before. wouldn't complain at all if we got a whole album like "time escaping" though.

the boldest part of the sequencing is just "time escaping" into "spud infinity" and they pull that off fine

the tusk comparisons are mostly about it being a 20 track folk/country/rock double album that's great the whole way through, with some textural similarities at times.

capacity was such a jump forward I understand attachment to it ... I do think they've continued to evolve though in a way that is essential to me really loving them! like I totally buy into them in a pretentious auteurist way LOL...but I dont think I ignore other female fronted acts (except in the sense i ignore 99% of indie)

Lenker's solo stuff doesn't totally click for me, even though shes like THE key to the band 'working' -- but I just like the stuff they do as a group more

I recently revisited Hours Were the Birds, which I was heavily into a few years back (I even bought my dad a copy, ha ha)… it didn’t really hold up, not sure why. (Abysskiss and Songs never clicked for me in the first place, even though the songs are obviously really good.)

abysskiss & songs are both excellent singer-songwriter albums but being that they're not really as exciting as what they're capable of as a whole band

I can't believe I didn't like Spud Infinity that much at first. now it just seems brilliant, perfect

10.9

if i ever see them live i am going to have to be that annoying as hell guy who sings along at the TOP of his lungs, on that song at least. it's one of the best songs i've ever heard, and the lyrics are a 10.8

https://i.imgur.com/pFB1NoA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bO4Qs15.png

post of the year

it's the song of the century

Listened to this on vinyl a half dozen times this weekend. It doesn't feel overstuffed or anything to me, though listening to it on four physical sides maybe helps break it up and compartmentalize in a way that would be lost in other mediums. I also appreciate how they printed the lyrics in a manner that clearly aims for them to be read instead of cramming them on the sleeves in size 5 font.

I don't know Tusk well enough to get the comparisons, but for me I was reminded of the "tight" double album feel of Exile on Main St, which is diverse but never departs from what I consider the Stones' core sounds/styles. The country songs are some of the best here! "Spud Infinity" has been lodged in my head for the last two days.

Releasing a third of it between November and January has helped my assimilation.

Exile is an interesting call. I was clearly off-base with my Physical Graffiti prediction

it's funny exile is a double album and a really iconic album, but i don't feel like it ever comes up when ppl talk about iconic double albums, maybe because people usually expect the more white album type thing, really diverse stylistically

I think they're more thematically akin. The thing that unites stuff like White Album and Tusk and Exile and Sandinista! even is essentially a band literally not or at least often sounding like it's not working together as a band, per se. A few people there, a few people here, some tracks just one person, some two, different sessions cobbled together, a product of divergent individual interests and distractions, and so on. What's more unique about this album is it kind of *sounds* like some of those shambling, shaggy records, but it still very much sounds like a product of a band working together closely as a band (which is in part why it sometimes recalls the particular Americana alchemy of the Band).

They actually sound -- or at least create the impression that -- like they're having the most fun they've ever had.

Yeah, those other aforementioned albums are the end-product of bands you couldn't get to be in the same room together. This one sounds more like the end-product of a band you can't get to *leave.*

wow this is an interesting nugget from lenker's wikipedia:

attended the Berklee College of Music on a scholarship provided by Susan Tedeschi of the Tedeschi Trucks Band.[3]

Good call, Josh.

Releasing a third of it between November and January has helped my assimilation.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, February 14, 2022 7:43 AM (two hours ago)

i was thinking this last night. agree 100%. if i hadn't already absorbed those 8 (was it 8?) songs, this album would feel overwhelming and i don't know that i'd ever give any of it the time it deserves. as it is, i feel like i can set those 8 aside and focus on the rest of it now.

On the other hand, I'd not knowingly listened to any Big Thief before Friday but have been spinning it ever since - I did initially have an "oh. it's a double album" moment but have been very impressed with its repeat-playability

"Love Love Love" is SO loose-limbed & groovy... the "feel" reminds of me of some other artist or song that I can't at all put my finger on... maybe a Dylan thing(?)

I'm stuck on "Flower of Blood," a Ride song played at Cocteau Twins speed.

"Blue Lightning" is such a great closer... placing it at the end reminds me of "After Hours" (VU) a lil bit.

Gotta love an album that kicks off with, "Would you live forever, never die / While everything around passes? / Would you smile forever, never cry?"; and ends with, "I wanna live forever 'til I die / Yeah, I wanna live forever 'til I die..."

Been pulling through
Since the last time I touched you
Making do with an internet signal
Calling for the delivery to the front door

There is no reason to believe
No reason at all
Come together for a moment
Look around and dissolve
Like a feeling, like a flash
Like a fallin' eyelash on your sweater
Threading future through the pas

"blue lightning" as a closer kinda reminds me of "last orders please" by the faces, as done by workingman-era dead

yeah, that stretch caught my ear, too. (xpost)

she good

this band is just so generous

The Japanese bonus tracks are now on YouTube (sadly, "Dragon" is not the rocking version).

(...or maybe "happily," if that means there's a chance it may appear on the follow-up album!)

buck confirmed in a recent interview that the rock version they've been playing live was recorded in topanga canyon with shawn everett, hopefully it'll see the light of day soon enough. i think there's a decent chance it's on the follow-up

tucson version is fascinating but clearly not as compelling as the other two, a bonus track for a reason. there's also another version recorded in upstate new york we don't know anything about.

and "light is as is" is just fine

Just listened to this straight through twice, wow it's good. So many good songs!

and then they post pics like this in their IG Stories, haha

https://i.imgur.com/rwJCmVJ_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Their persona as a band feels very late '60s in the way a lot of bands seemed like goofy weirdos at the time. Thinking of the San Francisco scene in particular.

i hadn't listened to these guys until i heard little things in the track poll but this album is really excellent. I don't know anything about their persona but this album really sounds to me like hippies re-writing Anodyne so them having a San Fran persona makes a lot of sense to me.

i'm surprised nobody's mentioned 'being there' as one of dragon's double album antecedents

^^^ otm, makes a lot of sense. I was half expecting it to be broken into two CDs.

It's kind of like Being There and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot all in one, the sprawl and the conscious artistic leap. (NB I've never been a huge fan of YHF, but like Kid A it felt like a band growing and stretching and knowing that they're growing and stretching, doing it deliberately — which this does too.)

Fan of the singles but the vocals wear me out throughout the album. Shame for me.

I once thought as you do.

then what happened?

Their persona as a band feels very late '60s in the way a lot of bands seemed like goofy weirdos at the time. Thinking of the San Francisco scene in particular.

You know, Jefferson Airplane is a really good touchstone for this band... even down to the distinctiveness of each album and even song in their catalogue; the prominence of the "rhythm section" as full band members; the weightiness of their concerns (which involve themes of nature & technology – though approached differently); and, indeed, something about the personalities / "presence" / styles of the folks involved. Some differences are that JA had a few different songwriters in the band (as opposed to mainly Adrianne), a non-guiter-playing singer, etc.

(JA had several different singers too, obv)

Wow, I have also never knowingly heard this band, and this is fantastic.

km - wasn’t sure if there was a slight tinge of facetiousness in your lauding Spud Infinity upthread, but now that I’m hearing it I don’t think so! Awesome song!

Song that caught me on the most recent listen was "Blurred View," which drifts through red-zone fuzz and rattling railroad percussion in a way that feels yearning and a little sinister.

Also, I loved Lenker's acoustic demo of "Simulation Swarm" last year, it's fun to compare it to the album version — you can hear what happens when it goes through the band filter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRReuyuyk9I

i absolutely love the solo in "simulation swarm," incredible to see her reproduce it on acoustic

She is among other things a terrific guitarist.

Love what max came up with on bass for that one.

12,000 Lines is a perfect little song

Yeah that bass part is gorgeous, the way it dances around the vocal line.

the whole band has fantastic chops but oleartchik is just phenomenal

Listening to this for the 3rd go-round & for the first time on headphones. Really digging it. It feels so artful but also uncalculated - natural, I guess, almost completely unpretentious while still reaching in a lot of different directions & not shying away from philosophy or sonic difficulty. What a gem.

Jaysus, they have over 2 million listeners on Spotify! When did that happen?

Over 1.5 million were me :-o

2,000 Lines is a perfect little song

― Heez, Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1

Indeed.

I've had a different part of this rattling around in my head every day since it came out. Today:

I believe in YouUuuuUU (feat. ghostly harmonising)

from the title track.

I'm still working on the "new" tracks but overall it's such a great album.
I don't think there's a single song I dislike so far which is rare for a double album, even the greatest ones !
Especially since I loved Adrianne's album Songs but somehow never really liked her output within the band format.
Right now I love "Blue Lightning".

after five tracks of this......this is the standard for modern country. accept nothing less

i came here wary of the hype, but i do now understand it, something has been accomplished here

i even like 'little things' now

Drinking a beeEEEeeEEeeer

12,000 Lines enhanced by the birdsong in the park I'm walking through

okay, some rough thoughts, insofar as anyone needs to know what I think

- this is obviously very, very good

- yes, the chords are fairly simple, classic country chords, with the odd wrinkle, and it is an album that looks back quite a lot, and fits within an established lineage of American Music. we don't have, as we do with say Weyes Blood, medieval interpolations, weird synth textures, progged-out drama

- but what we do have is a grand play with band dynamics, with the textures of the classic Americana instruments - the layers are kept intricate, and yet a space is retained in the mix; it has the wobbly, woozy, diaphanous quality of the best music of this sort. the chords therefore become a chassis for what's really going on here: little details, little things, guitars played (or recorded) strangely, delightful vocal harmony work, songs that develop subtly and intensify or quietly pull the rug

- it stays thoroughly engaging the whole way through, and uses its length to become something more ragged, inscrutable and dare I say literary than if it'd been, say, the first ten tracks + Simulation Swarm

- lenker's lyrics and vibe don't annoy me; she's endearing and I buy how she stretches for the cosmic, again in a more goofy, ragged way than her competition for American Songwriter Of The Moment. that is still an unfair framing though; maybe it'd be better to say that her lyrics and vibe are excellent, even if the main attraction here is how it all comes together

- my favourite bit is probably still the Drum Machine Bit, because I can't help being me, lol

on second listen though, the descending chord sequence that emerges out of the stellar debris of the title-track is challenging it

I think someone said something about “love love love” and the Band upthread and it does have a rugged intensity and SOUND that reminds me of some tracks from the Basement Tapes.

Is there a breakdown anywhere of which tracks are from which sessions? Would be interesting to compare the vibes of the different recording dates and locations.

Demo recorded at The Elf Inn
"Promise is a Pendulum"

Flying Cloud Studios, NY with Sam Evian
"Certainty"
"Sparrow"
"Heavy Bend"
"12,000 Lines"

Five Star Studios, Topanga Canyon, CA with Shawn Everett
"Time Escaping"
"Little Things"
"Blurred View"
"Simulation Swarm"

Studio In The Clouds, CO with Dom Monks
"Change"
"Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You"
"Flower of Blood"
"No Reason"
"Love Love Love"
"The Only Place"

Press On Studio, Tucson, AZ with Scott McMicken
"Spud Infinity"
"Red Moon"
"Dried Roses"
"Wake Me Up to Drive"
"Blue Lightning"

here you go (source is the liner notes)

Studio in the Clouds is where Neil and Crazy Horse did Barn and Colorado

still can't hear this as anything but Tusk 2

don't hear the wilco comparisons at all

I don't think it sounds like Wilco at all, I think "Being There" was just brought up as another shambling double album example.

I often use my guitar teacher as a sounding board, because he's about 10 years older than me and doesn't know much if anything about contemporary music but is open to pretty much anything. He loves the Band and knows his instrument, so I wonder what he'll make of this.

i also don’t think this sounds like tusk (maybe occasionally)

the only downside of this album is that it is in a style that inevitably gets people talking about American rock history rather a lot

I think one of the things that makes this record so impressive is that it's in strong communication with American rock history, but is still very much Its Own Thing. Very hard to do. It's fun to pick out the potential reference points, but think about how they do it a bit differently.

Yeah I don't think it sounds like any of those other Big Albums, I think the references are more about spirit and vibe.

And thanks for that song list, those groupings really make sense. But I'm glad they jumbled them together in the track listing. (Currently I'd say Topanga Canyon is my jam, but this is the kind of album where that preference will shift over time.)

Yeah thanks for that, gonna break it down in playlists just for fun. Just adding to the praise - I've been enjoying this album so much over the last week.

good "rough thoughts" post, imago

ty it feels good to like something you all like too lol

triggercut otm

https://i.postimg.cc/7hKSZ1nw/spudamerica-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/7hKSZ1nw/spudamerica-1.jpg

This morning I reached the point in listening to this where I can shut off my analytical brain, stop trying to anticipate how it flows or guess what's influencing what. Just letting it play and enjoying it for what it is.

those tucson sessions seem like they were fun

Looked to me from that video posted above like Simulation Swarm is in an alternate tuning, so dug around and see she commonly uses them, which is another nice little tweak that gives her/their songs a distinct sound

Good tutorial on "symbol" for those who are interested. Haven't seen this picking pattern before, either.

youtube.com/watch?v=VmjD8CrMIX0

Ah found a video where she talks about alternate tunings--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bAugdYu8LQ

A lot of acoustic finger pickers use or need to use alternate tunings to get the drone strings going or to just let open strings resonate.

actually 'little things' sounds more like tango in the night though FM would have given it a big chorus

i'm making this up, but this morning, at least, i believe the best way to listen to music is to listen to the music and not think about where it came from or what tradition it might belong to

this belongs to the tradition of good-ass folk/country music

it's in the universe of the Band, and the reason we're all thinking of fleetwood mac is 5% tusk and 95$ because James Krivchenia, the drummer of Big Thief, is literally the same person as Mick Fleetwood. watch the red moon video. they are the same person

did i share this yet? this is the best thing i've read on the new album

https://www.talkhouse.com/sam-evian-and-james-krivchenia-big-thief-arent-gonna-do-shit-just-to-get-bigger

please ignore the title/url, it's just one thing they talk about

xxxpost Why? Tradition and where things come from is one of my favorite things about listening to music. I love hearing artists build upon or expand on ideas that came from others or before them. What was the Bowie quote about being second being better than being first?

it's great, and i often think about tradition and where things come from, who is influencing who. but it should never be a prerequisite for enjoyment (not that you or anyone else is doing that). i'm just saying, it is so nice to forget all of that for a minute and just listen to the song as it is

Oh, for sure, one of the worst things about writing about music professionally (RIP) is losing the luxury to just listen for the sake of listening.

I love how BT makes my brain fish around for comparisons/touchpoints, without taking anything away from my enjoyment of their music.

Five Star Studios, Topanga Canyon, CA with Shawn Everett
"Time Escaping"
"Little Things"
"Blurred View"
"Simulation Swarm"

yeah, holy shit. the whole album is so good that all four of the sessions come across as outstandingly productive, but that one might take the cake.

simulation swarm is just incredible

I like this bit from that interview (btw. James & Sam Evian, who did the Flying Cloud session):

Sam: (...)I think my process with overdubbing by myself is trying to make it sound like a band(...). If I don’t feel like a kid when it’s happening and if I don’t feel a little manic and dancing around like an absolute dweeb, then I’m like, this is done.

James: (...)I have a similar thing, which I try and impart on people when they’re doing an overdub. It’s like, this should be really exciting. Even though it’s just a tambo, this performance is important. It kills me when I see someone punching the clock on a tambo take because it’s like, dude pretend you’re in the room with this band.

Sam: You should be giving yourself the night sweats.

James: Totally. You feel it in the music when people take these little overdubs as if they’re nothing. You’re going to really hear this thing, it has to be more exciting than just in time.

Is it me or can I hear the scrape g of shirt buttons on the title track?

someone please grab "punching the clock on a tambo take" as a user name

there's so many good things in that interview. i love the concept of "the sauce" as well

xp Did that already! ;)

Is it me or can I hear the scrape g of shirt buttons on the title track?

idk exactly what you mean but there is a credit for "icicles" on that track and i can hear those

is it me or can I hear icicles scraping against the guitar necks on the title track?

that makes me nervous

James & Max are credited for "Icicles" on the title track in the liner notes

I ask because I thought it a cool cinéma vérité touch when Bob Dylan makes sure you hear them on "Wedding."

Bought this today. On my first listen through and I guess it's their warmest-sounding album so far? I'm on the second disc and there's almost a jollity to it. It sounds like the angstiness of albums like Capacity has all but dissipated and this is the sound of a band enjoying themselves together

as the world's #1 spud infinity fan, i learned how to play it on guitar today. left my capo somewhere else, so i play a version of it that's transposed and uses way too many barre chords. i'm planning to create a genius annotation that references me being the world's #1 spud infinity fan, and then citing an ilx poll that i create and rig so that only i can win as the evidence. i've been working on building up my scholar IQ over at the genius academy, and i hope you will support my effort to earn a candybar from the someday, if i earn it

Who is the World's Undisputed #1 fan of 'Spud Infinity' by Big Thief?

do you sprinkle capos in your ground beef? I do.

i capo'd the crap out of an omelette this morning

capos make a statement, you roll up on the gig with a capo on, ppl are like this is some serious guitar shit

i don't know, there are views among guitarheads that it's better to "git gud" at barre chords rather than resort to a shameful capo. I saw one quora thread where this guy was bragging about playing guitar since the 60s and never once using a capo. because that's how good he was at barre chords. i thought about signing up for quora to upvote him because his authority was undeniable

me capo-ing my ground beef

https://www.closetcooking.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Cuban-Picadillo-1200-9758.jpg

having seen adrianne play a couple months ago i can tell you that she does weird tuning stuff between every song, uses a capo way more than i expected, and also barres chords. please upvote me due to my authority

str8 fire beautiful beef alfred

ya that looks amazing!

str8 fire beautiful beef alfred

think we have the title for the next Big Thief opus

str8 fire beautiful beef alfred

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

I didn't get that compliment on my last date.

“Are you sure the noodle is ready, Alfred?”

Ahem

Anyhow, so John Prine, Will Oldham, and Radiohead walk into a Basement Tapes…

Yeah that's a good combo. Maybe throw Neil Young in there. I love the influences it calls to mind, there are so many of them but also they are always coherently their own thing.

I loved that alternative tunings video. One thing that struck me about Get Back was just the sheer musicality of the Beatles, how fluid and fluent they were with their craft. Big Thief feels very much like that, their musical dexterity lets them play with a lot of things.

i have to say, re: "Spud Infinity" ... i wish she'd cut two beats off all those taaaaaakes, ditch the last 75 seconds (from the drums on) and end up with a perfectly fine 4-minute song.

‘flower of blood’ and ‘blurred view’ are my favs so far

Something really satisfying about that part in Sparrow where Adrianne ends 5 consecutive lines with “apple”.

Second go round and this is really starting to shine through. I'm so glad I held off really giving any of the teaser tracks a listen beyond like one play as they work better in context. I'm also quite content absorbing the album side by side in whatever order is good. I don't come to BT for jolly larks, but I'm genuinely loving side three and especially Red Moon. So much fun

Yeah "red moon" and "blue lightning" (and "spud infinity" !) have a country feel good vibe that is so satisfying on a sunny winter day.

btw I just booked tickets for their Paris gig in June : exciting !

Sam: (...)I think my process with overdubbing by myself is trying to make it sound like a band(...). If I don’t feel like a kid when it’s happening and if I don’t feel a little manic and dancing around like an absolute dweeb, then I’m like, this is done.
James: (...)I have a similar thing, which I try and impart on people when they’re doing an overdub. It’s like, this should be really exciting. Even though it’s just a tambo, this performance is important. It kills me when I see someone punching the clock on a tambo take because it’s like, dude pretend you’re in the room with this band.

Sam: You should be giving yourself the night sweats.

James: Totally. You feel it in the music when people take these little overdubs as if they’re nothing. You’re going to really hear this thing, it has to be more exciting than just in time.

these guys are such romantics & it's pretty wonderful & also I find it very moving how much people are responding to this romantic mood, but I gotta say: if you get lucky enough to work with some of the heavy-hitter session overdub people, people who I guarantee have played notes & figures that take people's breath away daily on timeless sides known to everybody -- speaking from experience here, I've had the good fortune to have at least three such dudes on my sessions -- and these guys will not hesitate to knock out an utterly devastating take with their right hand while holding a sandwich in their left. I personally am on the "treat every take like it was a moment of sublime importance" train but I've often considered that an indictment of my own musicianship because the best musicians I've ever worked with, while they absolutely take visible pleasure in playing and never seem to get tired of it, are kind of the opposite of what BT are talking about here

i don't know, there are views among guitarheads that it's better to "git gud" at barre chords rather than resort to a shameful capo. I saw one quora thread where this guy was bragging about playing guitar since the 60s and never once using a capo. because that's how good he was at barre chords. i thought about signing up for quora to upvote him because his authority was undeniable

I recall Isbell boasting that his most recent album was recorded entirely without capos. The alternate tuning with a capo *and* barre chords, though, that's basically been the Keith Richards model since "Let It Bleed." If I were a guitar player kid starting in the '70s that would have driven me nuts, being unable to figure out what he was doing, which is super-simple but *only* if you know he's in a tuning, with a capo. I like how the Big Thief person doesn't seem that precious or mysterious about it.

Yeah, the "classic" Keith Richards parts are SO simple with that specific tuning/capo. That's barely guitar playing ! ;)

Congrats you just managed to be rockist against Keith Richards, that is high level shit

keith richards figured out that open guitar strings sound better than fretted strings and tuned his guitar accordingly. the best thing about capos is it allows more open-style voicings without having to tune and re-tune your strings after every song

Eheh

It's amazing how many songs Keith wrote in open G, with and without a capo, with essentially the same chord shape. Genius/hero.

keith richards figured out that open guitar strings sound better than fretted strings

better -for his purposes-, there is no better/worse on this kinda thing except for specific applications

All the capo shaming examples sound like they come from a very narrow standard tuning mindset. Capo, and partial capo even, unlock weird chords and new sounds on all sorts of wacky tunings.

what kind of dickhead would shame someone for using a capo

capos and alt tunings are the best guitar hack, if you can even call it that

I have seen many professional musicians whomst I love and respect playing with capos, hence all capo-bashing seems silly to me. Whatever it takes to get the sounds you want.

I took a few lessons with Peter Lang and he started our first lesson by talking about how open tunings were superior to standard, the thought being that the fewer fingers you have on the neck the more naturally resonant the guitar is. It was his contention that standard tuning was only developed due to the demands of performance, allowing show band guitarists to play in a variety of keys with singers at the expense of tone and more intuitive, easier ways of playing

capos just transpose the key they don't change what notes you have to finger/play

i don't really understand how they make it easier is it just because the strings become closer to the board?

Short history of standard tuning: https://www.fender.com/articles/tech-talk/standard-tuning-how-eadgbe-came-to-be

It quotes Richard Lloyd: "Even though the cello is a larger instrument than the violin, it is played with the neck vertically, which allows the hand to have a little bit easier time reaching for notes. With the guitar sitting in the lap and the neck diagonal to the player, the bend in the wrist starts to make it more difficult to spread out the fingers. So our next best choice for tuning any larger scaled multi-stringed instrument is going to be to tune in fourths, which are a little closer together. On a guitar, a person with a normal-sized hand can reasonably be expected to sound the major third with the pinkie finger while holding down the tonic with the index finger. So it makes sense that the next string should be the fourth.”

I have heard people knock open tunings as lazy but capos? Really? I have always thought of a capo as just reducing the number of frets, and I believe they make guitars in a couple different configurations suggesting it's not a sacrosanct count.

As a total amateur three-chord acoustic strummer, I sometimes use a capo for two reasons: Most commonly to move a song into a key that's easier for me or my wife to sing, and also sometimes so I can play with chord fingering that's easier for me. (e.g., a transposition to play a Bm chord with Em fingering.)

better -for his purposes-, there is no better/worse on this kinda thing except for specific applications

― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, February 17, 2022 9:48 AM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i agree that each songwriter/guitarist has techniques better suited to the sound and vibe they're going for. but i agree with ums (well, peter lang) upthread: the fewer fingers you have on the neck the more naturally resonant the guitar is.

I haven't played standard tuning (on my guitar) in probably 10 years. It just sounds so magical in more open or unconventional tunings.

i'm in the same capo-boat at tipsy. alt tunings are mostly mysterious to me and i wish i could crack them. although if i had to choose, i would prioritize figuring out how to pick with all my fingers!

the lenker alt tuning video up there was wonderful, yes, thank you for posting, Indexed

Yeah very satisfying even if you know nothing about guitars

The fun thing about them is that you can just play with hand shapes to find out what sounds good... until someone maybe wants to accompany you and you have no fucking clue what you're playing. It's just "uh, this shape then this one, then I move it up here a few frets" (this is why I've driven away any enthusiasm anyone's ever had to jam with me... as rare as that is in the first place)

"Even though the cello is a larger instrument than the violin, it is played with the neck vertically, which allows the hand to have a little bit easier time reaching for notes.

I believe Robert Fripp's fabled New Standard Tuning is if not the same then close to the same as cello tuning (all fifths?). Though of course his entire approach is pretty unique.

I've never heard anyone badmouth a capo before, tbh. At the very least it can instantly change the *sound* of your guitar, which is cool. Alt tunings are cool, too, but tuning into alt tunings can be a pain in the ass (which I believe is one reason given for why Joni Mitchell stopped touring; iirc it may have even played a part in Nick Drake's depression!).

I cannot believe that Joni Mitchell did not have the resources to have multiple guitars tuned to different alternate tunings and a guitar tech to hand them to her as needed for the next song

I do the simple Neil young move where I drop the high E to D. Just that one little change can make standard chords sound cool and droney

And on the pro level you'd want a separate guitar set up and intonated for each tuning (esp open C which is so slack)

I do the simple Neil young move where I drop the high E to D. Just that one little change can make standard chords sound cool and droney

Drop D is fairly common in pop music, much more so than full on open tunings. "Everlong," "Dear Prudence," "Harvest Moon," "Heart Shaped Box" are a few I've learned that use Drop D.

Everyone from Papa Roach to Fleetwood Mac, I guess...

https://killerguitarrigs.com/best-songs-in-drop-d-tuning/

lenker's suggestion of starting new guitar players with open tunings is such a good idea

i always assume anyone playing a slide is in an open tuning

Drop D is fairly common in pop music, much more so than full on open tunings. "Everlong," "Dear Prudence," "Harvest Moon," "Heart Shaped Box" are a few I've learned that use Drop D.

― Indexed, Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:48 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

also dozens upon dozens of grunge and metal songs

i'm talking the high string

If I may go back to "Symbol" for a moment, there is so much going on with this song! The alternate tuning - "Low C", which I personally had never seen and she doesn't even talk to in that video. The picking pattern that was also new to me; not sure if this is her creation or not -- the thumb is used on eighth notes 1,2,4,5,and 7. The syncopation in the verse's vocal melody -- which makes it a bitch to sing and play simultaneously, at least for me.

Then there's the internal rhyming in these lyrics, which looks more like rap:

Fly make flea, make haste, make waste, eight makes infinity
Times I've tried to make breaks, embrace for the enemy
Meet my face to face, time try to find the diamond
Counting time as time counts me, the river to the island

Fly/ti/my/ti/try/fi/di/is

haste/waste/brace/face

make/eight/brake

Low C is kind of a variation on DADGAD:

CGDGAD

that's more UK/celtic folky

open C (also the "Sun Tuning") which I referred to upthread is similar:

CGCGCE

that's like basically ground zero of american primitive/post-john fahey stuff, an excellent tuning to play around with, almost impossible not to sound good in that tuning

though in both you have to tune the low E past drop D to a low C, which as I said can be a challenge for some guitars if there's not enough string tension and also kind of hard to intonate properly, not that it's ever stopped me

Congrats you just managed to be rockist against Keith Richards, that is high level shit

i had a hearty lol at this

this is very classically "open c" sounding

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3YHeYP1AM

I cannot believe that Joni Mitchell did not have the resources to have multiple guitars tuned to different alternate tunings and a guitar tech to hand them to her as needed for the next song

I saw a claim that she has written for at least 50 guitar tunings. Found this:

The new influence at work is an electric guitar that Mitchell’s old friend Fred Walecki built for her to alleviate her ongoing frustrations with using alternate tunings--one of the reasons why she stopped touring in 1983 and was on the verge of quitting the stage permanently in the spring of ’95. Walecki, of Westwood Music in Los Angeles, designed the Stratocaster-style guitar to work with the Roland VG-8--the Virtual Guitar--a very sophisticated processor capable of electronically creating her tunings. While the strings physically stay in standard tuning, the VG-8 tweaks the pickup signals so that they come out of the speakers in an altered tuning. This means that Mitchell can use one guitar on stage, with an off-stage tech punching in the preprogrammed tuning for each song.

"This new guitar that I’m working with eliminated a certain amount of problems that I had with the acoustic guitar," Mitchell explained. "Problems isn’t even the right word; maddening frustrations is more accurate. The guitar is intended to be played in standard tuning; the neck is calibrated and everything. Twiddling it around isn’t good for the instrument, generally speaking. It’s not good for the neck; it unsettles the intonation. I have very good pitch, so if I’m never quite in tune, that’s frustrating." Over the years, Mitchell has learned to slightly bend the strings to compensate for the intonation error, but that effort is still often defeated by the extreme slackness of her tunings. "In some of those tunings I’ve got an A on the bottom or a Bb, and it’s banging against the string next to it and kicking the thing out of tune as I play, no matter how carefully I tweak it." The VG-8 sidesteps all these problems: as long as the strings are accurately in standard tuning, she can play all over the neck in the virtual alternate tunings and sound in tune.

xp lovely. Where would you recommend starting with Fahey? His discography looks intimidating.

xp Wow... how did that VG-8 work? Do other musicians use it?

(i.e., how well does it work / was it successful for Joni?)

xp lovely. Where would you recommend starting with Fahey? His discography looks intimidating.

― Indexed, Thursday, February 17, 2022 12:35 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

imo:

https://www.discogs.com/master/18614-John-Fahey-Volume-5-The-Transfiguration-Of-Blind-Joe-Death

https://www.discogs.com/master/98895-John-Fahey-The-Yellow-Princess

xpost The rest of the piece I found was this:

In every gig since the 1995 New Orleans Jazz Festival, Mitchell has used the VG-8, using its effects to build a guitar sound reminiscent of her Hejira era. But the VG-8 is having a much more far-reaching impact on her music than just providing a workable stage setup. In composing and recording the songs for her next album, she’s thrown herself into a heady exploration of the VG-8’s sampled sounds. "Sonically, it’s very new," she said of the tracks recorded so far. "I don’t know what you’d call it. It’s my impression, in a way, of ’40s music. Because I don’t like a lot of contemporary music--it’s just so formulated and artificial and false--I kind of cleared my ear and didn’t listen to anything for a while, and what emerged were these vague memories of ’40s and early ’50s sounds. Swinging brass--not Benny Goodman and not Glenn Miller but my own brand, pulled through Miles (Davis) and different harmonic stuff that I absorbed in the ’50s. Because this guitar has heavy-metal sounds in it and pretty good brass sounds, I’m mixing heavy-metal sounds with a brass section, so it’s a really strange hybrid kind of music. I’m a bit scared of it sometimes, you know. I don’t know what it is."

The richest irony of Mitchell’s VG-8 experience thus far is that this guitar rig, which was intended to make her alternate tunings more practical and usable, has in fact driven her to write her first song in 30 years in standard tuning! A technical barrier is responsible: the VG-8’s samples were created to be used with a guitar in standard tuning, and they’re not accessible (without programming modifications) in conjunction with her alternate tunings.

Here she is using a Parker Fly through the VG-8 (so basically just like Adrian Belew!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7YGPv3xeNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgSS2fHbB7g

Imo ... it sounds like a guitar synth.

I recall watching Lindsey Buckingham's rig run-down. He uses a lot of alternate tunings, too, but he had one acoustic guitar with a Roland synth pickup by the bridge, which they can use to dial in or trigger a few synths or other sounds to beef up the string.

yellow princess and death chants, breakdowns and military waltzes IMO

if i could only pick one though it would be legend of blind joe death

xpost - Evan's Fahey picks are right on. I would add Days Have Gone By, Vol. 6 and Death Chants, Breakdowns and Military Waltzes

Yellow Princess was my first

I'm going to stop because if I go further I'll just end up listing most of his discography and contending that some of the lesser loved ones are *actually underrated*

for someone still living among us, Glenn Jones is brilliant and probably is the closest to carrying on Fahey's work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13kYsBVErmI

Thanks all!

I'm slowly falling in love with this record. Even better that it's led to a discussion about tunings and Fahey recommendations!

Adrianne seems like a total dude and her dog has excellent bone-chewing skillz.

xxp ah that's from my favorite glenn jones album, and never seen that vid. lovely

I love how Lenker walked away from this whole teen-star thing her dad tried to build for her and has almost certainly ended up a bigger star (of sorts) — playing weird music with her weird friends — then he ever could have made her.

Glenn played my wedding and I consider him a friend, so I'm sorry but I need to put one more youtube clip of him in here along with ums, but I promise it is on topic because every song he does is in a different tuning, and in this clip he is using a partial capo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3L-acWwioE

amazing how songs on this record you didn't really give too much thought to hit you so hard all of a sudden. fuckin dried roses man...

Just had that feeling with Blurred View. I cannot get enough of this album, I think every song is my favourite until the next one comes on.

No Reason though lads...

Never heard them do anything so warm

or so damn catchy

and the flute

Also: "I wanna be the vape that gets you high" is such a great line

(different song, obvs. Just so many great moments on this album)

Yeah, I listened again today - separated the record into its 4-1/2 sessions in a playlist instead of listening to the album proper, and so many new chunks of awesome leaped out at me - songs I hadn’t thought about hit me harrrrd - and altho Topanga is as great as expected, each other session was just as grebt.

what's the story on adrienne's dad trying to make her a star?

https://www.discogs.com/release/12550569-AdriAnne-Lenker-Stages-Of-The-Sun

I can't work out if this album is Tusk or if it's Exile but I already prefer it to both. I literally love this album and I only heard it yesterday

I have an idea!

Yeah this album is absolutely stacked but lately I can't get past "Change" without re-listening like three times in a row. The elegant restraint of the arrangement; the way it lyrically zooms in scale from the cosmic to the personal; Death, like space / The deep sea, a suitcase.

It's even more magical knowing the album version was the very first rehearsal take they played in the studio; they didn't even know it was being recorded

Let's not compare it to other double albums!

I mean, to my ears it's a more tuneful John Martyn album, like, say, One World.

she's told the 'dad wanted me to be a teen star' story in a lot of interviews but this one is the most detailed telling i've seen: https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1482-big-thiefs-adrianne-lenker-has-seen-some-shit/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJdqBKDzl_4

this is the only song from her teen album on youtube but i think the rest of it is pretty easy to track down

I almost posted about the flute on No Reason yesterday. Yeah, so many great hits and pieces throughout.

the two extended breaks in "no reason" are so good, really transcendent stuff

richard hardy plays the flute on it, he's some old session guy who played on a lot of carole king albums in the 80s. he was apparently just playing flute in a lookout tower near the studio & they heard it and loved it and asked him to come play with them on "no reason"

I spent the last two days listening to everything in Lenker's catalog on Spotify, and every bit of it is good to great. I thought I didn't like the first two Big Thief albums but they're both awesome?

haha, yeah, after some of the posts above about preferring the first couple albums - which i totally get! - i listened to them again and found myself aching to come back to the new one

I've heard these guys on podcasts and in mixes before, but I wouldn't have thought to give the album a spin without this thread. It's amazing. "No Reason" is as good as anything I've heard in the past five years.

it must be the sauce!

that's my grandma!

whatsa gonna taaaaaaaaaaaaaake

"Change" too

god, i hope that i have the strength and patience and wisdom to not blow-up when, 40 years from now, i'm watching whatever television is and an ad comes on, and it's bbq ketchup ("original 1992 formula!") and then the jingle goes "whatsa gonnnnna taaaaaaaaaaake? (to ketchup?!), and it's such a bastardization of the original but I know that either the musicians or their families will get that money, and also that i'm confident that the bbq ketchup is pretty good because i trust big thief to at least approve of the product

Probably one of the better albums to feature a teddy bear’s butt on the cover, for sure

haha, yeah, after some of the posts above about preferring the first couple albums - which i totally get! - i listened to them again and found myself aching to come back to the new one

My entry point was U.F.O.F., and the other night I put on that and Two Hands — both of which I like a lot — and they already felt like precursors, not quite fully formed things.

man ... when's the last time we had a thread that was this universally positive about a new album? i realize there have been some ILM love-fests, but this is some kind of reaction.

big thief is for the people

big thief is people

“Love Love Love” feels underbaked to me, otherwise I’m having trouble finding anything or change about this album.

Was thinking last night that something I appreciate about this album is how Extremely Offline it is. I mean, there's one lyric about getting an internet signal. But otherwise it could've easily been made before the internet, before the exhausting digital spectacle of everything being beamed into my head for all waking hours. I feel like a lot of artists think they need to engage with The Discourse or Today's Issues in some way or another to make an important album, but they don't really do either of those things. And that's why it already feels timeless. It's just songs about people, nature, relationships, and potatoes played by people who just love making music together. After being stuck inside for a lot of the last couple of years and being sucked into an internet black-hole, it's been a reminder for me of the importance of all those things. I think that's partially why it feels like a wonderful breath of fresh air despite its deep roots in many parts of the folk/rock canon.

I’ll chime in. My wife recently moved to Savannah for a new job but I’m staying behind in Houston with the kids to finish out the school year. I downloaded this album while in Savannah, helping her get settled. It’s been the perfect music for all of this. Hopeful, melancholy, wide open. I can’t stop playing it

Was thinking last night that something I appreciate about this album is how Extremely Offline it is. I mean, there's one lyric about getting an internet signal. But otherwise it could've easily been made before the internet, before the exhausting digital spectacle of everything being beamed into my head for all waking hours. I feel like a lot of artists think they need to engage with The Discourse or Today's Issues in some way or another to make an important album, but they don't really do either of those things. And that's why it already feels timeless. It's just songs about people, nature, relationships, and potatoes played by people who just love making music together. After being stuck inside for a lot of the last couple of years and being sucked into an internet black-hole, it's been a reminder for me of the importance of all those things. I think that's partially why it feels like a wonderful breath of fresh air despite its deep roots in many parts of the folk/rock canon.

― triggercut, Thursday, February 17, 2022 10:43 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

while I see this its the opposite feeling that excites me about it -- at some level it feels very of its time, that it only makes sense now, imho. its ironically anti-trend considering how trendy it is -- the fact that its 'working' is a tribute to how compelling it is, imho. like...2008 hipster fleetwood mac standom x NPR?? is how id describe its surface texture. but at this stage its effective in spite of those things not because of them

I didn't know spud was used as slang for potato anywhere outside of the UK until this album

"Like a feeling, like a flash
Like a fallen eyelash
On your sweater, threading future through the past"

XP same Nate Woolls, thought it was an orrible blood sausage expression

I'm all-in on the love for this but am surprised Whiney hasn't made a side-eye poll of the most gushing phrases.

Bring it on

I didn't know spud was used as slang for potato anywhere outside of the UK until this album

- at some level it feels very of its time, that it only makes sense now, imho. its ironically anti-trend considering how trendy it is -- the fact that its 'working' is a tribute to how compelling it is, imho. like...2008 hipster fleetwood mac standom x NPR??

otm

It couldn't exist outside this histori-musical moment, and, of course, as a culmination after six years.

And, yeah, what was the album that brought deej, me, Brad, Karl, tipsy, etc. together?

I didn't know spud was used as slang for potato anywhere outside of the UK until this album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0w59lBfXU

Low I feel like gets pretty much universal acclaim on ILM but they have been around so long there's not the same enthusiasm as this

imagining a fourth verse of “spud infinity” in which lenker marvels that somebody so small could be so great at dunking

Song I woke up with in my head today: “Certainty.” Love that chorus.

Also, just in case REM hasn’t been mentioned somewhere in the list of influences here, they deserve a nod. Particularly Reckoning-Fables era. And some Lenker’s lyrics have a Stipeian allusiveness.

Wake me up to drive

Certainty is the only song I'm not sure about tbh. It sounds like something from a previous album and when it comes on I think it's going to be No Reason which I prefer

Also: WHAT'S IT GONNA TAAAAAAAKKE

I am indifferent to Low, but then I've not heard much. That one album I heard made my ears feel funny

So, not *totally* indifferent!

(Listen to Low, they're brilliant.)

Okay

I'm a bit busy listening to something else RN though

WHAT'S IT GONNA TAAAAAAAAKE

tribute to how compelling it is, imho. like...2008 hipster fleetwood mac standom x NPR??

otm

It couldn't exist outside this histori-musical moment, and, of course, as a culmination after six years.

I don't hear much if any
I think we all got off on this tangent of comparing it to other double albums

perennial favourites against which new releases must be measured...extended discussions of tuning and technique...ilm is rockist again, rejoice!

Can you guys elaborate on this? I have no idea what it refers to (I don’t really hear Fleetwood Mac in Big Thief… who were their 2008 stans?)

― punching the clock on a tambo (morrisp),

Oh, I was making the perfectly banal point that albums don't exist outside their historical moment. Big Thief couldn't have recorded Dragon in 2016 for a number of reasons.

Triggercut OTM, booming post.

wow, the big thief community at genius is just completely wrong, very non-scholarly and close-minded

https://i.imgur.com/UcXCNTB.png

What do we think of "Heavy Bend"? Kind of a filler track if any such thing exists on this album, but there's something cool about it. The slightly r'n'b-esque shuffle and the record-skip style repetition of the title's name

NexusRasp only has 32 points. i already 545. that means i'm 17x more of a genius about music. and they're downvoting MY annotation?? wow

I love you KM

<3

you should join the genius community and upvote my annotation, get it back into the non-negatives! also i'm about to bust out my "i am the world's undisputed #1 fan of this song" annotation, once the ilm poll concludes today or tomorrow. NexusRasp has no idea what is coming

NEXUSRASP!!

i like Heavy Bend a lot! it ushers in the little 3-song section - heavy bend, flower of blood, blurred view - that closes the first record. i really love that section but it feels different than the rest of the album. ufo mentioned that flower of blood kind of sounds like the cocteau twins, and then alfred said it sounded like a ride song played at cocteau speed, which i think is even more accurate. blurred view really captured my attention on first listen. in fact, for some reason it was the only song i put a little "heart" by, upon first lesson. i don't think it's one of my favorites, but i appreciate the sequence because going into red moon from that feels like coming in from the cold to find friends and a meal cooking, that kind of thing

I only got this album on Wednesday and I already feel like I have a deep personal connection with the majority of the songs, which is mad considering the length of the thing and the fact previous BT albums have taken a little while to sink in.

I spent the last two days listening to everything in Lenker's catalog on Spotify, and every bit of it is good to great. I thought I didn't like the first two Big Thief albums but they're both awesome?

― Indexed, Thursday, February 17, 2022 6:13 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I am having a similar experience - I wasn't sure if I had ever listened to them before but listened to Capacity and I was like, oh yeah, I remember checking this out. I think my initial reaction was that it sounded like good songwriting but there just wasn't enough that made it stand out for me to invest the time in developing a personal connection and appreciation. But now having fallen in love at first sight with Dragon New Warm etc and then going back, all the value hiding in a more conventional indie folk album is just that much closer to the surface, much more tantalizingly within reach and worth the effort.

Anyway, the reason I mention this is vis-a-vis the convo upthread (I think it is in this thread!) regarding the relative pros and cons of having the context for hearing new music vs. going in blind. In this case it is a whole new perspective on the artist that has allowed me to hear their music in a different way, much for the better.

yeah, i said some really wrong stuff, from-the-hip, on context and stuff like that upthread. i was thinking about how wrong i was about that this morning actually! for all the reasons people said. sometimes you shoot from the hip and kill the bandit, sometimes you shoot your toe off and pretend it didn't hurt

apparently Certainty was recorded during a power outage at the studio. that is an excellent tidbit

iirc all great artists shoot off some extremity or other, nbd

I'm just reading the lyrics to Certainty now. for a while I was convinced that there were all sorts of variations in the chorus, so that rather than always being "My certainty is wild, weaving", it was sometimes "uncertainty", and "why" instead of "wild", sometimes "leaving" instead of "weaving". but I guess not. fukken NexusRasp is gonna be all over my ass for that, probably, if they find out

While we're still in the lovefest here, I want to give some props to Lenker's phrasing

Death, like a door
To a place we've never been before

OK, it's a good line, but one that teeters on the edge of cliche to me. However, she dances around both the most obvious rhythm and melody jut enough to bring out the poignancy and beauty. So nice.

But now having fallen in love at first sight with Dragon New Warm etc and then going back, all the value hiding in a more conventional indie folk album is just that much closer to the surface

Wait - Capacity is a “more conventional indie folk album”?

if i left out the word "folk" would that make more sense? i debated including it. maybe conventional/unconventional is the wrong rubric, more singular and remarkable vs. familiar and unremarkable?

and for the Capacity lovers among you, my comment is just that on the surface it is more familiar and unremarkable. Now that I have been primed for the quality of the band I am giving it a deeper listen and hearing what it has to offer beyond that. that is basically my point

this is pretty crazy to watch, busking as unknowns. would be really stirring to happen upon this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAGbYtPSnbQ

^capo sighting in the wild

part of me thinks i would remove my headphones and stop to watch for a second, but the other part of me is worried that i might've actually walked by them without a glance in the past lol

i didn't start spending much time in the area until after this video happened, so maybe i'm in the clear

I wouldn’t feel bad about that. I could see listening for a second and thinking this is twee as fuck, nooope, putting the headphones back on

I knew almost nothing of Big Thief until this album and naively assumed/hoped that was Lenker's grandmother on violin

Lads

Is it possible to have a crush on an album? Not being funny or anything

dog latin and Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You sitting in a tree...

What do we think of "Heavy Bend"? Kind of a filler track if any such thing exists on this album, but there's something cool about it.

Yes, to me it’s a nice “palate cleanser” – falling, as it does, between two atmospheric epics – and I like the insistent lyrical repetition and “just a sketch” feel of the song.

I feel like when you hit “Red Moon” is when your brain goes – “oh shit, this is just a remarkable album” (…and it’s the start of side 3, which shows how well-paced the track list is)

The little woodwind & gtr jam at the end of "No Reason" is such hot sh1t... I just love it

― Gimme little drink / From your Dunkin cup (morrisp), Wednesday, January 26, 2022 9:35 AM (three weeks ago)

Reupping this just to say that this final minute of the song is so redunculously, shamelessly beautiful, it makes me laugh in disbelief as I hear it. Like, just imagining putting that on tape, and listening back to it for the first time…

Heavy Bend is great. Love that little rnb-ish riff. I was trying to put my finger on what it most reminded me of and realised that it sounds close to DJ Pied Piper - Do You Really Like It? and more recently PinkPantheress - Just For Me.

Is it possible to have a crush on an album? Not being funny or anything

― Urbandn hope all ye who enter here (dog latin), Saturday, 19 February 2022 04:13 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

can we all agree that this was the moment when we decided that yes, while the big thief album was really good, it was time to listen to some other things now

just saw came across a big thief tiktok and had a revelation. the lyrics to the famous part of “red moon” are as follows:

open the screen door, talking with diane lee
that’s my grandma!

“that’s my grandma” isn’t a non sequitur, diane lee is literally the name of adrienne's grandma. am i thick for not realizing this?

Imago you're just jealous

I mean saying you have a crush on the album is kind of a perfect little parody of the ilx hype pile on at full tide. Inevitably when the tide recedes proportionately and the predictable backlash pile on is at its peak people will say things like “is it possible to waterboard an album? Not being funny or anything”.

You come here and say that to my face

“that’s my grandma” isn’t a non sequitur, diane lee is literally the name of adrienne's grandma. am i thick for not realizing this?

Did you not parse the “Diane Lee” lyric until now? I could see that.

Took me more than a few listens to dig that out as well.

When I first got to know the song, from the live version on YouTube, I thought she was literally giving a shout-out to her grandma in the intimate crowd.

new to me! my first thought upon hearing the song was that it was her grandma playing the fiddle solo, which made a lot of sense to me

dog latin, i'm sorry to break this to you but i am in a long-term relationship with this album now. it started last week but we're starting to talk to others about it now

imago, you should know that part of commitment means never listening to other albums ever again. that's why the forward-thinking music listener falls in love with the longest albums possible

lol

Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe In You is ethically non-monogamus, and that's canon

i think the key to hyperbole is to always be raising the bar

the other day i took a walk in the woods outside of my house. the day had begun to dim, clouds swarming in the sky like magnetized bumper cars, and it cast the trees in this grey-blue glow that made them appear more ancient than they already were, like they had been there since the very start of the world. as i headed back i stared at a blossom on the tree closest to my house, and to my surprise and almost horror, the blossom began to shiver open, like a bird shaking water from its feathers. i strained my eyes to focus on whatever was being born inside of it, getting exposed to the air for the first time, and when my vision finally stabilized, i saw the tiniest little thumbnail of the album art of big thief's dragon new warm mountain i believe in you. i ran back into the house and cried for hours; i had never witnessed anything so beautiful, and all previous and future instances of beauty appeared so shriveled and hollowed-out in its wake that i never went outside again

Finally settling into a listen. Very nice Saturday morning music.

But are you ready to make out with it?

...was that a request in the liner notes?

kiss the album you're listening to right now

They are digital files, they are evanescent. Unless you'd like me to lick my external hard drive or something, but I need to dust it first.

dust it off and give 'er a smooch!

Best New York Dolls lyric.

kiss the album you're listening to right now

Kiss the album up and down unless it’s Elbow

I am in a complicated relationship with this album

It's not even that complicated tbf

*poke*

👀

weird that the discourse around this record here now is “I want to fuck it”

It’s not a very sexy record, is it ?

maybe let's all take Sunday off from this thread, gather ourselves and come back Monday ready to get back to it.

Can you guys elaborate on this? I have no idea what it refers to (I don’t really hear Fleetwood Mac in Big Thief… who were their 2008 stans?)
― punching the clock on a tambo (morrisp), Friday, 18 February 2022 15:13 (two days ago) link

People have been mentioning tusk all thread lol?

Anyway I’m more suggesting that fleetwood Mac became like a hipster cause again circa 08 or whatever — when I was in hs/college I feel they were kinda uncool still, hangover of bill Clinton using don’t stop thinking about tomorrow on his campaign speeches maybe? Baby boomer rock that was cool was way more stones zep Hendrix centric. Things tilted back toward Mac in the mid-late 00s & it just accelerated since, I agree there are better historical analogues for big thief (the band keeps coming up over and over) but my point is it’s not like their sound his hitting at the apex of some 70s country-rock revival trend that they happen to be capitalizing on, were already through even the latest stage grateful dead phase—the obvious touchpoints for this band have been cool for like 15 years. If anything they’re “late” — but, and yet, through being Good it kind of doesn’t matter what their relationship to trends are

my 2LP came in the mail last night! i could have gotten the ecofriendly one but accidentally did not. guess what just came on?

whatsa gonna taaaaaaaaaaaa

xp Thanks for the elaboration, I guess... I still don't really follow, though you're clearly much more plugged into "trends" them I am. (I know ppl have been mentioning Tusk, but I don't hear the comparison beyond the fact it's a double album, or really get FM as a touchpoint for this music/band.)

imo there's a subliminal reason that fleetwood mac comes up with big thief

https://i.imgur.com/ie0vQD7.png

https://i.imgur.com/1cgczcX.png

TUSK!

Haha, nice

it's not just an aesthetic similarity (although it DEFINITELY is that), it's that Krivchenia frequently even plays like and sounds like Mick Fleetwood,
favoring the hi-hat heavily over the cymbals, often throwing in variations to the basic beats, rarely repeating anything exactly but still establishing a familiar rhythm

flower of blood sounds so goooood on my speakers. :) usually i prefer to listen to everything on headphones but this one does sound glorious on a sunday morning.

i think people are going to start to really annoyed when the inevitable Which Side is Best poll comes up, but there are legit arguments for all 4 here

btw if any Fleetwood Mac comes to mind when playing this album it's this and its country-adjacent vibes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo0p7zHKi_k

Little Things —> Red Moon is such an amazing stretch. Surrounded by other great stretches, but that's where the album really expands. Returning back to "Red Moon" is like, OK, now that we've shown you what we can do ...

I think if there is any Fleetwood Mac in this I'd think much more of the slightly skewed, gently psych rootsy songs off Kiln House, Bare Trees and Future Games not anything in the Buckingham/Nicks era

but also they could get the country ish stuff from a zillion different places, including but not limited to actual country music

I think the Mac comparison is fair. No they don't sound exactly like Fleetwood Mac but they don't NOT sound like them if you see what I mean

There's something about the ease of this that feels like a set of baggy clothes worn at the end of the day. And to murder the metaphor, meaning is kind of smuggled into the conversation or so soaked into the fabric of the clothing that it emanates like a hum.

I guess we're just chucking names about at this stage but no one has mentioned the Byrds, another band who used to wear their best music like a set of spangling waistcoats.

Little Things —> Red Moon is such an amazing stretch. Surrounded by other great stretches, but that's where the album really expands. Returning back to "Red Moon" is like, OK, now that we've shown you what we can do ...

The Bare Trees comparison makes most sense, down to the sleeve.

there's a fair few lead guitar tones on this album are reminiscent of buckingham's on tusk, that's where the comparison is strongest for me apart from the '20 song 80 minute rock/country/folk excellent double album' part that's more about form than anything else.

but one of the thing that makes this band so good is they're very much their own thing, never leaning too hard into their influences or anything. like there's a lot of fleetwood mac-influenced stuff over the last decade where it's very obvious exactly what they're drawing on, but here the connections are all looser and the end result is much more singular

i guess i hear a little bit of michael hurley / holy modal rounders going on, in the instrumentation and lyrical flights and off-center song construction.

Yeah that scene feels a good touchpoint for “Spud Infinity,” at least…

Something key to this band for me, though—despite all the RIYL-ing they inspire—is how they don’t feel strongly connected to any particular set of influences or musical tradition. (That’s why talk of this album in relation to “indie trends” of the past few decades doesn’t really jibe for me…)

OTM

I think what makes this a good record is the way that this certain group of musicians has developed a distinctive way of playing with each other. I think they are most influenced by themselves, the accumulation of time spent on the road, the practice space, the studio... that secret language a great band has.

all of which is really hard to pin down or talk about, which is why we all have been grasping at bands to compare them to.

Something key to this band for me, though—despite all the RIYL-ing they inspire—is how they don’t feel strongly connected to any particular set of influences or musical tradition. (That’s why talk of this album in relation to “indie trends” of the past few decades doesn’t really jibe for me…)

― punching the clock on a tambo (morrisp), Monday, 21 February 2022 01:46 (two hours ago) link

I feel like you’re agreeing with me!

let's just agree to agree

A new day, a new tune from this album sinks in. Today it's the quiet, unassuming "Promise is a Pendulum" which to all extents is a rewriting of Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" and might even come off a bit generic and "heard before" if it wasn't for the "I'm just sayin'" lyrical device and the way Lenker's voice does this unexpected rise and crack every so often

im glad you pointed out “suzanne” in that one because i hear it too

that's one track that needs cutting tbh, i want the whole damn band u...u GRIFTER

eh i hear the similarities to "suzanne" but it's fairly vague, just about vibe & a similar vocal phrasing rather than anything more direct

Yeah, that one has really caught me over the last couple of days too, particularly the way she sings “I’m not saying I’m not jealous, or scared anymore…”. I think it’s one where not having the whole band kind of makes sense; the song seems to be (in part) about feeling small and humbled amongst the grandeur of nature, and it being a solo performance really enhances that feeling of vulnerability.

Other one rattling around in my head right now
is the start of Love Love Love with “I already died, I’m singin’ from the other side” which lyrically, vocally and instrumentally reminds me of Magnolia Electric Co.

It’s so fun waking up each morning and realising that there’s a new part of this unexpectedly living at the front of my brain.

she literally has lyrics from "Suzanne" by Cohen tattooed on her body, assuming she's a fan!

https://pitchfork.com/features/podcast/big-thiefs-adrianne-lenker-explains-her-biggest-influences/

I learned that in this very instructive podcast done when her recent solo album was released going through her most important musical influences:

John Prine (in more recent interview she cited his influence on Spud Infinity)

Pat Methany (dad's fav)

Iris Dement (very passionate about Infamous Angels)

Leonard Cohen (New Skin in particular)

Elliott Smith (Either/Or - can't believe that never occurred to me but duh)

Nina Simone - Live at Montreux

Twain - a newer artist I'm not familiar with who she calls "the greatest living songwriter)

and.....

......drum roll.....

Fleetwood Mac - Tusk 😲😯😯

twain is mat davidson, who plays keys & fiddle on a bunch of tracks on the new album & capacity

Heraring hints of Smashing Pumpkins on “Little Things” this time around. Then again, Corgan was also a Fleetwood Mac fan so maybe it’s just FM what I’m hearing.

Ok Heavy Bend and Flower of Blood are also sounding Corgan-esque to my ears now.

I’ve been listening to Smashing Pumpkins in the past few days so my ears are biased.

And I finally remembered what 90’s band “red moon” reminded me of: Blonde Redhead

Erm… “Blurred View” not “red moon”

One song of this remind some of Hazey Jane II by Nick Drake, which might be simply down to the guitar tuning

and yet I my heart I knew that the artist themselves would not slow down the train of increasingly ludicrous "influences"

"I love John Prine and Iris Dement"

"Your new country rock album reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins"

The run from Little Things - Blurred View isn’t country/americana influenced at all though. It’s very decidedly a 90’s alt rock vibe in those tracks.

Ok maybe “little things” could be. But whatever country rock albums you’re listening to that sound like “flower of blood” I’d love to listen to.

I mean if we’re gonna spin this thing all the way out… the Pumpkins covered “Landslide,” so…

Iirc Buck Meek lists Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine on his influences, so there’s that.

One of my (and Lenker and Meek’s) favorite songs on the new record, “Jenni,” sounds like Hum’s 1995 alt-rock hit “Stars,” had it been recorded in a teenager’s humid, imploding bedroom.

But that image is perhaps even less weird and florid than the manner in which the song was actually recorded. “We hung the guitar from the rafters of a barn, from this 30-foot ceiling on a rope,” Meek explains to me. Around it, Stonehengelike, they arranged a circle of amplifiers. “[It’s] an idea I kind of stole from [Sonic Youth guitarist] Lee Ranaldo, who has an ambient set with that setup, a circle of amps.”

https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/4/30/18523793/big-thief-adrianne-lenker-ufof-capacity-band

Ah yes, country rock legends Hum and Sonic Youth.

this sucks and isn't fun

Ok. I’ll go back to listening to my favorite country song of the year so far: “flower of blood”.

I’m so glad that good bands are less fussed about genre than some of their fans are. One of the amazing things about this album is that they draw from such a wide range of influences & yet it still sounds like a cohesive thing.

The Blonde Redhead mention above — that was actually one of my first reference points when I first got into U.F.O.F. I think it was mostly her vocals and the way they sat in the mix. As I listened more and felt their folk roots more that association faded but I can still hear it.

xpost no I meant the whole thing, I hate my previous posts and contributing to turning this thread into some dire know-it-all spot the musical reference pissing contest. if they were tweets they'd be deleted

the album deserves better than ilm at it's worst

it's not even actually talking about music really just I know this well guess what I know this other thing 🤮

lol my initial pumpkins reference was very personal--and half joking-- rather than playing spot the influence, but I will say Adrienne can get a certain ache to her voice/melodies that reminded me of Corgan

Mmm Corgan is not a country rock artist, I doubt it’s intentional.

well, this week he isn't

moka i already took back all my posts on this thread ok you win congrats

Not much to add to what's already been said, this is incredible. Just amazing to listen to a band like this at the peak of their powers. I've already played it four times in full, finding more to love with each spin.

Unsurprisingly, Jim DeRogatis is absolutely wrong about this (although I guess he was otm about the "knish" rhyme), catching his review this morning once again reminded me how insufferable he can be.

Lol I’m joking. Also my original post was about how I was personally hearing a 90’s alt rock thing in that section of the album that brought SP to my mind, not that Big Thief were influenced specifically by them or saying they were.

That said, I think that one of the main reasons they’ve become one of the biggest indie acts of the past years is that they are not really operating under “indie folk” or “country rock” or whatever constraints a genre gives you. Some people are fans of John Prine and some are fans of idk… Slowdive and this is an album that could actually be of interest to both sides. I think it’s valid talking about the vast array of sounds they’re pulling - and points of references as unintentional and boring as they might be.

^ not to take anything away from this point, but this song is a very odd reference point for the big thief track “Jenni”(!):

One of my (and Lenker and Meek’s) favorite songs on the new record, “Jenni,” sounds like Hum’s 1995 alt-rock hit “Stars,” had it been recorded in a teenager’s humid, imploding bedroom.

Two things we can all agree on:

1) Dragon New Warm Mountain = classic

2) Jim DeRogatis = dud

Yep, it's just always bracing when you realize just how dud he is.

as a critic dud
as a journalist classic

That's otm. Wish he'd stick to the latter.

Catching back up, I can definitely hear the "Suzanne" influence on "Promise is a Pendulum", I was thinking the same thing on my first listen before I even saw the comparison itt. Right now "Red Moon", "Blue Lightning", "Love Love Love", "Certainty", "Spud Infinity" and "Simulation Swarm" are my favorites, but that would likely shift with another relisten.

Tbh, still trying to crack my way into appreciating "Blurred View".