Music Cities that Punch Above Their Weight

I was thinking recently about how Akron, OH has produced at least three highly noteworthy musical acts in three different styles and eras: Ruby & the Romantics (R&B vocal group with three Billboard top 40 hits in 1963, including a #1), Devo, and the Black Keys.

Plus Stiff Records released a whole compilation LP of Akron new wave/power pop bands in 1978, and it was the birthplace of Chrissie Hynde, Lux Interior, and (on a different note) David Allan Coe. Pretty good for the third-largest city in Ohio.

What other cities have made contributions to music - in quality and quantity - that belie their otherwise low cultural profile?

Bonus question: are there cities that punch BELOW their weight in this regard?

(inb4 "that's actually not that many famous acts for a city of that size" - I'm trying to get the ball rolling here, just go with it)

San Diego doesn’t have much in the way of a “cultural profile,” but has a pretty significant rock scene.

(Obviously it’s a big city, but more known for military/industry than culture.)

Not a city, but Bellshill has some notable luminaries; Teenage Fanclub, BMX Bandits, Soup Dragons, Sheena Easton and Sharleen Spiteri from Texas. Not bad for an industrial town with a population around 20,000.

That would count as a city in the US.

On the other end of the M8, Edinburgh’s contribution to popular music seems way below what you’d expect for a city with some of the most vibrant cultural festivals in the world.

Gainesville, Florida, had a ton of success with mainstream roots music in the 1960s and 1970s - Stephen Stills, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Don Felder and Bernie Leadon of the Eagles. Felder learned some guitar licks from Duane Allman who lived nearby. They also had The Motels a little later.

Kansas City: Lester Young, Big Joe Turner, Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, Melba Liston, and where Count Basie established himself.

Ann Arbor, Michigan tends to get lumped in with Detroit, but it's about as close to that city as Akron is to Cleveland, and certainly has always had its own scene, producing the likes of:

Stooges (obviously)
Bob Seger
Robert Ashley
Brownsville Station
Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen
Mayer Hawthorne
Scott Morgan (Rationals)
Wolf Eyes
Many artists on the home-grown Ghostly International label, including Dabrye
Andrew W.K.
Deniz Tek of Radio Birdman

Nomo also from Ann Arbor

a lot of college towns, tbh — ann arbor, athens, chapel hill, etc

^Does Boston punch below its weight in this regard?

Dayton Ohio the funk capital of the world

Good point about college towns. Might have to consider them disqualified, unless the school in question is relatively minor itself.

Cities that have a high cultural profile largely or entirely because of music should also be out contention (though I don't think anyone was going to say Nashville or Memphis anyway).

xp - Boston vs. San Diego in the competition for punching below in terms of "modern/contemporary" music ... obv Boston is pretty impressive in terms of classical musicianship

see also San Jose, CA -- current population about 1 million ppl

Mention of Chapel Hill does remind me how vastly it outpaces the rest of North Carolina in rock music specifically - I can only think of one nationally semi-prominent rock band from Raleigh (Corrosion of Conformity), none from alternative culture hub Asheville, and none from Charlotte, the biggest metro in the state.

And none from my beloved Durham either, sadly.

it would not have occurred to me to call boston a modern/contemporary underachiever

i was indeed going to suggest memphis — i mean it’s like the 45th-biggest metro area in the us but an enormous legacy

hey the connells had a big hit in the uk!

Muscle Shoals and Sheffield, AL
Aberdeen, WA

Pittsburgh, PA should and probably does have a decent musical environment, given the size and diversity of its population - but all I can think of is Donny Iris and iron City Houserockers.

and for its sins, rusted root

kurt schwitterz at 6:01 12 Dec 21

Dayton Ohio the funk capital of the world


also Guided by Voices, Brainiac, Toxic Reasons among others

Muscle Shoals is a great one!

Pittsburgh also has Anti-Flag to its credit(?). But yeah that does seem like an underachiever.

Pittsburgh, like San Diego, is not known for its culture. Not every large city has a “cultural footprint.”

Des Moines is a huge underachiever

Oh, here's an obvious one: Clarksdale, MS

i was indeed going to suggest memphis — i mean it’s like the 45th-biggest metro area in the us but an enormous legacy

― mookieproof, Sunday, December 12, 2021 6:14 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Fair point. New Orleans, Memphis, and Nasvhille may just be the best answers to this by such a wide margin that it's not fair to the other cities.

tbf pittsburgh has don caballero, wiz khalifa, mac miller and a world-class symphony

Aberdeen is a great call

Cleveland obv

Washington DC

how about dunedin, nz

yep

Manchester UK

ok I'm gonna be the dork but Minneapolis

This may be way off, but I think of Manchester as kinda like the Chicago of the UK (third-largest city, major cultural and economic hub for its region) and thus neither an under- nor overachiever musically.

Dunedin, NZ is a great pick.

NZ as a whole is crazy for great indie bands per capita

Phoenix I'm on the fence about, it has some gems but it's the 5th largest city in the US

Pittsburgh: Art Blakey.

I accept Manchester disqualification, did not realize relative size

Minneapolis seems fair

I submit Recife, Brazil

Minneapolis seems like another neither over- nor under- city, though I may be overestimating its general cultural prominence because I'm from St. Paul.

This may be way off, but I think of Manchester as kinda like the Chicago of the UK (third-largest city, major cultural and economic hub for its region) and thus neither an under- nor overachiever musically.

Also a lot of Manchester acts weren't and aren't really from Manchester.

The Fall = Prestwich. Joy Division, Happy Mondays = Salford. Buzzcocks =

Buzzcocks = Bolton etc.

Honestly I feel like Minneapolis would be a way underachiever without Replacements, Husker Du, and Prince or am I missing something?

The Fall = Prestwich. Joy Division, Happy Mondays = Salford. Buzzcocks =

There's Manchester, which is a city, and there's Greater Manchester, which is a county. Manchester itself is only the 7th biggest city in the UK and I'd say it punches far above its weight compared to most of the cities above it.

... even allowing for the fact that so many Manchester bands are actually from Greater Manchester.

Mention of Chapel Hill does remind me how vastly it outpaces the rest of North Carolina in rock music specifically - I can only think of one nationally semi-prominent rock band from Raleigh (Corrosion of Conformity), none from alternative culture hub Asheville, and none from Charlotte, the biggest metro in the state.

Winston-Salem has a few - Chris Stamey, Mitch Easter, Peter Holsapple, and Ben Folds, as well as George Hamilton IV

Port Arthur, TX

Janis Joplin
The Big Bopper
Johnny Preston
Lee Hazlewood lived in neighboring Port Neches, TX as a teenager
Jason Halbert, Grammy-winning producer (Kelly Clarkson)

Bakersfield, CA ("Bakersfield sound" country + Korn)

Clermont-Ferrand, the Liverpool of France

Who's from Clermont-Ferrand?

I'd also like to hear more form sleeve about Recife, Brazil.

VALLEJO

there is a glaring omission on that port arthur list btw

Ted Dunbar?

Bristol is globally influential in leading trip hop and bass music, plus robert wyatt, and probably a lot of other musicians I don’t know of.

Already noted briefly, but Athens, Georgia is also hugely influential for REM, B-52s, and Elephant 6. Wikipedia also tells me it’s where the music for Commander Keen, Wolfenstein 3D and Doom was written, which accounts for a lot of listeners.

Akron only the fifth largest in Ohio; the three Cs and Toledo all bigger

idk, Cocoon? I think it's mostly known for 60's garage bands like Les Fraises des Bois.

Brazil-wise, Santo Amaro gave the world Caetano, Maria Bethania and samba de roda.

xxxxxxp

Richmond VA has a renowned hardcore/metal scene right? Also: D’angelo, Arto Lindsay, various other alt/indie rock bands, etc.

Austin TX seems like an obvious choice, though I don’t really know how many particular artists from there - quick google search would indicate a lot, including stars of the lid, spoon, 13th Floor Elevators, and most crucially, Fastball of “the way” fame

Trying to think of what Canadian city might qualify; maybe Halifax at one point.

Virginia Beach begat Timbaland, Missy Elliott, the Neptunes and Clipse, right?

Austin is a world-renowned music town; if it qualifies here, then I really don’t understand the topic at all

Yeah, Austin is like Music City, TX. But Dunedin is indeed a great pick.

xpost, I thought this was about cities whose musical presence/influence exceeds its size/influence as a city in general. As in, Austin as a music town vs austin as just “a town.” Reread the original post though - if the benchmark is a low cultural profile than point taken.

Yeah, I thought the point was: “You don’t think usually think of music/the arts when you think of Akron, and yet…”

Johnny & Edgar Winter were also Beaumont/Port Arthur guys.

Probably not who noz was referencing, an artist I'm blanking on.

Oh wait, George Jones!

Noz obviously a Tyler Mahan Coe sock.

Seem to recall some big H-Town rappers are originally from there as well.

VALLEJO

― idk man (noz), Sunday, December 12, 2021 6:44 PM (one hour ago)

hahah my friend often does A/V at the Coliseum and he set up a mic for E-40 recently.

Providence, RI

Richmond VA has a renowned hardcore/metal scene right? Also: D’angelo, Arto Lindsay, various other alt/indie rock bands, etc.

okay, hold on, like Arto Lindsay as a musician is pretty much a NYC guy (outside of the Brazil connection). Like someone being born there, but their actual musical output/influence occurring elsewhere -- I don't think that really should count.

Also the user formerly known as moonship journey to baja DM-ed me and wanted it to be known that I was being super dismissive of San Diego, because there were a lot of significant avant-garde composers and performers there.

Port Arthur, TX

Janis Joplin
The Big Bopper
Johnny Preston
Lee Hazlewood lived in neighboring Port Neches, TX as a teenager
Jason Halbert, Grammy-winning producer (Kelly Clarkson)

― Josefa, Sunday, December 12, 2021 8:20 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

there is a glaring omission on that port arthur list btw

― idk man (noz), Sunday, December 12, 2021 8:47 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

IM FROM PORT. ARTHUR. TEXAS. REPRESENT IT TIL IM DEEEEEAAAD
PIMPIN ALMOST DIED IN THE 80S, BOYS WAS SCAAAAAARED

(it's UGK, folks)

big pimpin down in PAT

JRN at 7:36 12 Dec 21

Minneapolis seems like another neither over- nor under- city, though I may be overestimating its general cultural prominence because I'm from St. Paul.

❤️ u buddy but HD wasn't exactly playing the uh St. Paul music scene of the 80s

I mean, if we are including cities that do so largely because they have colleges that creative weirdos go to -- Olympia WA

Providence, RI

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, December 12, 2021 8:18 PM (twenty minutes ago)

I feel like Providence is kinda neither impressively above or embarrassingly below. It's a city of about, what, 150k? A bit bigger than Berkeley, CA but not that much -- and they're kinda equivalent in terms of musical-ness ... though maybe they both are punchers above and I am just not being nice enough to my next door neighbor

Larry Graham also from Beaumont, TX and ZZ Top played their first gig there

I agree w sarahell re: Providence… it’s a small-ish city with an arts scene, its music scene feels right in the pocket for its profile.

also a college town

otoh Providence has about the same population as Rancho Cucamonga, and I feel like there is a definite weight difference there

Yeah but that’s how cities work, right? They’re known for different things… it’s not like they are expected to have scenes whose size & prominence more or less tracks their populations, and it’s some anomaly when that doesn’t prove true

Akron only the fifth largest in Ohio; the three Cs and Toledo all bigger

― Standard Liege & Lief (Master of Treacle), Sunday, December 12, 2021 9:22 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

No idea why I said third... if I'd been thinking I would have said Akron was fourth, after the three Cs, because I forgot all about Toledo. Good thing that only makes it more impressive!

okay, hold on, like Arto Lindsay as a musician is pretty much a NYC guy (outside of the Brazil connection). Like someone being born there, but their actual musical output/influence occurring elsewhere -- I don't think that really should count.

― sarahell, Sunday, December 12, 2021 10:25 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I opened this can of worms by mentioning in the OP that Chrissie Hynde, Lux Interior, and David Allan Coe were all born in Akron, even though none of them started their music careers there. But I agree with you, for the purposes of this exercise facts like that should be considered footnotes.

Kingston is a million inhabitants counting the agglomeration, and it was three times less in the sixties.

I don't have a great sense for how other people perceive Louisville culturally, but I think it's just kind of a crappy river town that's home to baseball bats and Muhammad Ali. But:

Marshall Allen
NRBQ
Slint / Squirrel Bait / Rodan / Gastr del Sol / Rachel's / June of 44 / etc.
Freakwater
Will Oldham
My Morning Jacket
Young Widows
Joan Shelley / Nathan Salsburg
White Reaper
Panopticon

Providence, RI

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, December 12, 2021 8:18 PM (twenty minutes ago)

I feel like Providence is kinda neither impressively above or embarrassingly below. It's a city of about, what, 150k? A bit bigger than Berkeley, CA but not that much -- and they're kinda equivalent in terms of musical-ness ... though maybe they both are punchers above and I am just not being nice enough to my next door neighbor

― sarahell, Sunday, December 12, 2021 11:41 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

the city was pre-natal stages of Talking Heads, all of Load records and future Bjork collabs, Les Savy Fav, Six Finger Satellites (birth of JAMes Murphy cool)

xxp beat me to it. If we were doing countries that punch above their weight then Jamaica would win, no contest

Bristol is globally influential in leading trip hop and bass music, plus robert wyatt, and probably a lot of other musicians I don’t know of.

Born in Bristol but Robert Wyatt, of course, grew up in a town (pop. 43,432) which has a sub-genre named after it, Canterbury.

Canterbury, the jazz rock Bellshiil.

Based on an initial sweep of my RYM map, Gothenburg seems to have quite a few legendary acts for its size

Really though, Brighton can't be topped. Cannot believe we've been blathering on about Bristol instead

Also the user formerly known as moonship journey to baja DM-ed me and wanted it to be known that I was being super dismissive of San Diego, because there were a lot of significant avant-garde composers and performers there.

Yeah, UCSD alone is one of the more important new music programs worldwide, even currently:
https://music-cms.ucsd.edu/people/faculty/index.html#Faculty

Also a legendary 90s hardcore scene.

I thought this was about cities whose musical presence/influence exceeds its size/influence as a city in general. As in, Austin as a music town vs austin as just “a town

It makes more sense to me this way. Otherwise, the whole thread is confusing bc I think of music or musicians right away when I think of most of these cities.

Has anyone mentioned Gothenburg?
The Knife, Jens Lekman, Ace of Base, Air France, Little Dragon, Sally Shapiro, Jose Gonzalez, and lots of melo-death bands.

wait, so has San Diego flipped from punching below its weight to punching above its weight?

Rekyjavik has produced Sugarcubes/Bjork, Mum, Sigur Ros, Olafur Arnalds, Of Monsters & Men - not a bad haul for a city of 130,000.

I can tell you guys that in the 80s, no one in louisville had much pride in the town, apart from college basketball and the Kentucky derby (ali didn't come up very much, there was 0 awareness he was from lville) and good music, as well as good culture and good everything else, was seen to have come from anywhere else…I don't think this is terribly unusual perception to second/third tier towns w/r/t NYC, Chicago, LA, Atlanta etc etc…also, there was in the 80s a strong disinclination to associate with rural/redneck culture and country music…

but now there is huge pride in Lville, huge pride particularly in Slint and BPB, which is contiguous to "keep louisville weird," a slogan that is applied to lots of other towns: now people are justly happy to live there…now there is a lot of interest in country, not Nashville fare post Garth/Shania but the kinda shit that W.O. and freakwater would have been 'fluenced by…

people around my age have 0 awareness of NRBQ, Squirrel Bait is barely acknowledged and I have never encountered while there or talking to someone from there anyone saying "yeah man, I love My Morning Jacket…" and probly the lville artists best known globally are jack harlow and Bryson Tiller…

I don't like MMJ, but I went to see Jim James play a solo set at the Mercury Lounge once: I was introduced to him as someone from Louisville, talked to him for a bit… he told me where he went to high school, local restaurants etc etc…but when I asked if he knew W.O. or any of the Slint guys, he claimed to not know who I was talking about, never heard of 'em… and his body language changed then to indicate that he wished to cease interaction

I don't like MMJ, but I went to see Jim James play a solo set at the Mercury Lounge once: I was introduced to him as someone from Louisville, talked to him for a bit… he told me where he went to high school, local restaurants etc etc…but when I asked if he knew W.O. or any of the Slint guys, he claimed to not know who I was talking about, never heard of 'em… and his body language changed then to indicate that he wished to cease interaction

Feel like I'm missing something. What did you make of this interaction?

There used to be a pretty active hardcore scene in Louisville, iirc. A lot of the prominent bands since then went on to sort of share provenance with Chicago. Will Oldham (he's old Kentucky money), Eleventh Dream Day/Freakwater, David Grubbs Inc. (Squirrel Bait to Bastro to Gastr del Sol), Slint Inc. (Pajo, Britt, King Kong), Rodan/Shipping News, Antietam, etc. Don't know what's going on there now, it's a nice city.

Ugh, I need to stop trusting google searches to differentiate artists established in a city and artists merely born there - xposts

I find it improbable that he did not know who Slint and Bonnie Prince billy were, much less hadn't met them… when he made it clear to me that he wanted me to get lost, it suggested to me that he didn't like being asked about those artists and didn't wanna be considered in a lineage or context with them… on the other hand, maybe he got tired of talking to some rando writer asshole and did what he needed to get rid of me…but his composure was pleasant and engaged until i mentioned those acts…

I think about this during NFL games when they play bumper music from hometown bands; some have a huge catalog to choose from and others...not so much. Like I can't name a band from Dallas or Jacksonville or Green Bay.

Ann Arbor got mentioned, but I live in the 'other' big college town in the state and there are essentially zero bands associated with it. The towns have a very, very different vibe and student body though.

Also in terms of Michigan when I think of all the music from or connected to Detroit it's kind of amazing - Motown, MC5, Eminem, White Stripes, Funkadelic, Seger, Alice Cooper, Glenn Frey, John Lee Hooker, tons of jazz and blues and gospel and techo and so on and so on.

Dallas or Jacksonville

Jacksonville had Lynryd Skynyrd and Allman Brothers! if that's not football bumper worthy I don't know what is

Alice Cooper is a good example of what sarahell was saying - they are from Arizona but I see them as part of the Detroit scene in terms of their impact.

the city was pre-natal stages of Talking Heads, all of Load records and future Bjork collabs, Les Savy Fav, Six Finger Satellites (birth of JAMes Murphy cool)

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, December 12, 2021 11:57 PM (yesterday

totally appropriate for a city of between 150k and 200k! ... I lived there in the mid-90s and it's Six Finger Satellite (singular, not plural, and they are more impressive to me than whoever James Murphy is)

xp- joygoat - I think we might have a "winner" for punching way below its weight and that is Dallas, TX

also Jacksonville has Molly Hatchett, .38 Special...Limp Bizkit...uh...shinedown...yellowcard...ok i'll stop

given it actually birthed bona fide sub-genre of southern rock I think Jacksonville is a prime example of punching above its weight class

I think Pantera is from Dallas or maybe outside of, not sure

but yeah I just looked at the Dallas/Ft. Worth metro is 7.6 million so def feels like they should have a lot more

Speaking of Florida, Tampa punches wildly above its weight in metal specifically.

I think about this during NFL games when they play bumper music from hometown bands; some have a huge catalog to choose from and others...not so much. Like I can't name a band from Dallas or Jacksonville or Green Bay.

This was what made me think of Pittsburgh - the Steelers were on Monday Night Football some time ago and when they went to a commercial they played "Ah! Leah!" and I thought "really? that's it?"

Pittsburgh has some solid weirdo punk bands but probably nothing that would be played during NFL televised games

Dallas-Fort Worth has SRV, 2/3rds of ZZ Top, the Toadies, Five Americans, Steve Miller, Pantera, Don Henley, and Ornette Coleman.

xp How cool would it be to hear Black Moth Super Rainbow while seeing a chart that highlighted the Steelers' declining red-zone effectiveness over the last 8 games.

Pittsburgh can claim Tommy James and the Shondells, as that’s where the classic lineup was assembled

xp karl hendricks' 'do you like to watch me sob' would be more fitting

SRV and Henley are interesting examples of the question how you define who's from where in terms of music, SRV moved to Austin at 18 and came up through that scene, Henley had that Shiloh band but I feel like the Eagles are one of the quintessential California bands...I left out Dylan from my MN list because aside from learning how to play and stealing some records from Spider John Koerner, I feel like his actual career begins when he goes to NY.

don't feel like there's a definitive way to do it, more of feel or judgement call

good one would be Ice-T who was born in NJ and lived there up through late elementary or jr. high but it would be pretty weird to claim anything but LA for him as an artist

I opened this can of worms by mentioning in the OP that Chrissie Hynde, Lux Interior, and David Allan Coe were all born in Akron, even though none of them started their music careers there. But I agree with you, for the purposes of this exercise facts like that should be considered footnotes.

We can add The Waitresses to the Akron list, since they started their career there. And this is more of a footnote to a footnote, but I recently found out the guy who wrote "Walk Like an Egyptian," Liam Sternberg, was a former member of Jane Aire & the Belvederes, who had a couple tracks on that Stiff Records Akron comp, which Sternberg himself curated.

kurt schwitterz at 6:01 12 Dec 21

Dayton Ohio the funk capital of the world

also Guided by Voices, Brainiac, Toxic Reasons among others

The Breeders (and The Amps) among those others

Jane Aire & the Belvederes, who had a couple tracks on that Stiff Records Akron comp, which Sternberg himself curated.

omg JANE AIRE & THE BELEVEDERES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never encountered while there or talking to someone from there anyone saying "yeah man, I love My Morning Jacket…" and probly the lville artists best known globally are jack harlow and Bryson Tiller…

yes, i listed the former because they made some good records and didn't list the latter two because they stink ... nothing to do with how well-known any of them are.

i agree with Sund4r this is tricky because, being who i am, when you say a city's name, i think of the bands from there. my perception of a city's cultural relevance is inextricably tied to its musicians.

Jacksonville actually seems like a really good (and tough to recognize) call. i think of it as sprawling muggy Florida hell-world, but if it birthed a genre, as ums said, that's something!

Throw in nearby Gainesville and you get Tom Petty and (all of?) the Heartbreakers, Against Me!, the Vulgar Boatmen (sort of?), Charles Bradley and Don Felder.

I think about this question a lot, and I think it's more a temporal thing. I've wanted to research it systematically. It seems like a region can punch way above its weight for about ten years. New Orleans and St Louis a century ago, Memphis in the 1950s, Detroit from the early 60 to early 70s, Minneapolis in the 80s, Seattle in the 90s. When bands start moving to the mid-to-large city to try to get some of the cachet to rub off, it dilutes the the regional flavor and the decade is over. Or it migrates. Athens punched way above their weight for a decade. A lot of mid-south bands moved to Athens to make it, but then that center of gravity shifted to Chapel Hill, and it got its decade. Hey I moved there as it was dissipating.

In the US, NY, Chicago, the Bay Area and L.A. are permanent heavyweights, though they seem to experience recessions here and there, like a mirror image of the music boomtowns. For smaller metros, Nashville would be the exception that proves the rule: turning the cachet into an industry.

I'd say Boston is a city that punches right at its expected weight, dripping out successful bands every few years, never having a flowering but contributing consistently to the larger trends in popular music.

Of course there are tiny towns like Asbury Park and Hibbing MN where their one global success story probably equates to punching above their weight.

In the US, NY, Chicago, the Bay Area and L.A. are permanent heavyweights

that's being really generous to the Bay Area ...

Dallas-Fort Worth has SRV, 2/3rds of ZZ Top, the Toadies, Five Americans, Steve Miller, Pantera, Don Henley, and Ornette Coleman.

+ Ray Wylie Hubbard, The DOC, Gibby Haynes, Erykah Badu, Edie Brickell, Roger Miller, Townes van Zandt, Meat Loaf, Charley Pride, some of the Dixie Chicks, Kelly Clarkson

Probably still not punching its weight given a metro population of 7.5mn though.

Disappointed to find out that DFW cannot, however, claim Flyleaf who always seemed to me like a band that had to be born in an east Dallas suburb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIADZKU9dw

the combo of meth and evangelical Christianity just screams Garland

Duluth (Pop 86k) really only has Dylan, Low, and Bill Berry, but that's pretty efficient.

Dylan's from Hibbing, which is an hour and a half away and definitely not the same thing as Duluth, I think he moved right from Hibbing to Minneapolis after high school

though how I lived this long and didn't know Bill Berry was born in Duluth is crazy! this state usually loves claiming any celeb with a even a tangential relationship to MN

let's talk about some other countries' cities imo

(tbf, once we get Oxford out of the way, we can probably discard the UK as well)

Dylan was born in Duluth and lived there for his first six years before moving to Hibbing.

https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/24049

I am sure those were six very formative years in his musical journey.

haha yeah it's hard to know what to "count", Berry definitely seems like a stretch, I'm actually still just blown away that I didn't know that

Low is Duluth down to the bone

How about a place like Birmingham, England? It was pretty working class and hardly culturally prominent (not unlike Manchester), but produced Black Sabbath, UB40, Judas Priest, ELO/The Move, Plant and Bonham, Duran Duran, Dexys Midnight Runners, Moody Blues, Steel Pulse, Nick Mason, Carl Palmer the Beat, Steve Winwood etc., Swell Maps. And of course more bands (Godflesh, Napalm Death, Ocean Colour Scene) soon after.

population over 1m. oxford has 150k

brighton has 200k

Birmingham is the second biggest city in the UK.

I told you all earlier on, but would you listen? Canterbury.

In 1970 Birmingham was less than half of that million, though, right? Closer to 300k? Original post says nothing about population, just "low cultural profile." Iirc wasn't even having a Brummie accent grounds for insult in some circles, like having a deep southern accent in the US?

Josh, that's true of any regional or not-upper-class accent

Germany has to have at least one good answer to this

frankfurt maybe? for house / techno specifically. tobias, atom tm, move d, ian pooley. and p16.d4

genoa maybe? i can't really name anyone but i seem to recall an excellent post punk (?) compilation focused on genoa that came out a few years ago? plus there's some italo disco involvement. someone else would know more.

In 1970 Birmingham was less than half of that million, though, right? Closer to 300k? Original post says nothing about population, just "low cultural profile." Iirc wasn't even having a Brummie accent grounds for insult in some circles, like having a deep southern accent in the US?

Checking on wiki, the population of Birmingham hasn't been less than half a million since 1891! It's been around a million since 1921.

The last time it was close to 300,000 was in 1861! The thing about these big industrial cities in the UK is the population for most of them has usually decreased over the years.

Canterbury feels a lot like Jacksonville*

good pick

*I would like you to acknowledge that you have just seen a sentence that has never been typed before in the history of the English language

lol

I could see The Jacksonville Tales being fairly chaucerian actually

prize for the winning storyteller is a free meal at waffle house

lol I think I was looking at stats for Birmingham, Alabama.

There IS a Canterbury St in Jacksonville

https://cathedraldistrict-jax.org/

lol I think I was looking at stats for Birmingham, Alabama.

Both have got comedy accents tbf.

Blake Bortles was the Jax QB for quite some time. That name seems like it belongs in Fairport Convention.

Lubbock TX does pretty well here: Buddy Holly, Joe Ely, Natalie Maines, Mac Davis, and Delbert McClinton plus Waylon Jennings from just outside of Lubbock.

Ooh, good call. Plus (obv.) Lloyd Maines, Terry Allen, Butch Hancock (but not Jimmie Dale Gilmore, iirc), Amanda Shires ...

Oh, here's an obvious one: Clarksdale, MS

― JRN, Sunday, December 12, 2021 6:28 PM

I'm biased, but I'd expand this to the whole MS Delta, total population about 500K.

Düsseldorf, while admittedly a fairly big place (500,000+), has given us Kraftwerk, Neu!, La Düsseldorf, DAF, Die Krupps, Die Toten Hosen, Heino and, er, Warlock.

Brazil-wise, Santo Amaro gave the world Caetano, Maria Bethania and samba de roda.

I was conflating this with Recife (Lula Cortes, Marco Notari, Satwa, etc), ignore me

different provinces, even

No-one's mentioned Hull yet? Pop. 260k, Housemartins/Beautiful South, Everything But The Girl, Throbbing Gristle, the Watersons.

+ mick ronson and err, kingmaker

I could see The Jacksonville Tales being fairly chaucerian actually

different level of scatology

I like the Violent Femmes and 21 Pilots but I think Milwaukee and Columbus both have to be counted as below-weight music cities.

Unless you're counting polka.

I feel a Birmingham list should also include Au Pairs, Broadcast and Felt. That city crossed my mind but I naively reasoned that UK's second largest was surely a good 6 million or something. Even a generous estimate of the metro area looks to be way short of that. So... stronger than I initially thought. At the very least I'd take a guided music-themed bus tour of greater Birmingham!

yeah you could add Die Kreuzen, Promise Ring, Al Jarreau for Milwaukee but even this hometown booster list isn't super impressive for a major city

https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/100milwaukeemusicians

I think there's a couple of reason - one, Madison and the University of Wisconsin is close and has always been a center for the arts and music (Butch Vig's Smart Studios is/was there) and it's so close to Chicago I think there's an impulse to move to a bigger market/bigger music scene

add Plasticland for Milwaukee.

Columbus has a strong garage history, Jim Shepard/V-3/Vertical Slit, Ron House/Counter Intuits/Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments, Sam Esh + Hard Black Thing, Great Plains, Gibson Bros, Scrawl, New Bomb Turks, Times New Viking.

And Numero started with a Columbus reissue, Capsoul.

Tidewater region of Virginia: Ruth Brown, Missy Elliott, Timbaland, Pharrell Williams & Chad Hugo, Clipse, Gene Vincent, Pearl Bailey, Charlie Byrd, Juice Newton, Gary US Bonds, and Clarence Clemons.

Food deserts are an area of concern

Tidewater region of Virginia: Ruth Brown, Missy Elliott, Timbaland, Pharrell Williams & Chad Hugo, Clipse, Gene Vincent, Pearl Bailey, Charlie Byrd, Juice Newton, Gary US Bonds, and Clarence Clemons.

All of those Columbus bands and no Cheater Slicks?

Milwaukee also has noize heroes F/i, Vocokesh, and Boy Dirt Cart

Columbus (and most of Ohio) has a billion great soul bands, as noted

Boy Dirt CAR, sorry

At the very least I'd take a guided music-themed bus tour of greater Birmingham!

― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, December 15, 2021 1:02 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I actually did this at a work conference I went to a few years ago- we went to Aston and saw Ozzy Osbourne's childhood home and where Geezer Butler went to school, Mothers Rock Club where loads of bands played in the late 60s and early 70s (now a household goods shop), Handsworth and its Steel Pulse mural and various places associated with Duran Duran and the new romantics. It was really good and was run by this guy https://twitter.com/jezc

Ha! Awesome.

incidentally Black Sabbath are an example of a band who all grew up within a mile's radius of one another, genuinely all from the same neighbourhood in the shadow of the Aston Villa football ground. I wonder if there are any other examples?

Haim, Jackson Five, amirite

hah yeah, family bands disallowed I suppose!

Milwaukee also has noize heroes F/i, Vocokesh, and Boy Dirt Cart

Columbus (and most of Ohio) has a billion great soul bands, as noted

― chaos goblin line cook (sleeve), Tuesday, December 14, 2021 10:04 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

sleeve - weirdly - boy dirt car has relocated to minneapolis and are playing pretty regular shows in small bars around town, i had no idea they were even a band still. need to go see them

I'm not sure where to slot (heh) Las Vegas, typically a void but which in recent years has produced not one, not two, but three huge superstar Mormon or Mormon-adjacent pop-rock bands, the Killers, Panic! at the Disco and Imagine Dragons. (Plus Ne-Yo, Crystal Method, Five Finger Death Punch and Shamir.)

Richmond VA has a renowned hardcore/metal scene right? Also: D’angelo, Arto Lindsay, various other alt/indie rock bands, etc.

Um, maybe? Maybe my impressions of Richmond are too college-y and 90s, but:

GWAR is deep Richmond. Like as Richmond as it gets. None more Richmond. Not sure if that rises to the level of a scene, though.

Dave Matthews Band was originally a Charlottesville product, only associated with Richmond by proximity. But there was a whole I-64 corridor ecosystem of jam- and jam-adjacent hippie acts for a while. BS&M. Bio Ritmo, Everything ("Hooch," ugh), DMB, Bruce Hornsby. Charlottesville, Harrisonburg, Richmond, Williamsburg. Patchouli, hacky sacks, noodly solos next to a river.

Ululating Mummies.

Lady of Rage ("Afro Puffs") straight out of Farmville.

Ellis Marsalis was Richmond-based for a bit but is really a New Orleans figure.

D'Angelo yes but again I'm not sure a standout act constitutes a scene.

One could talk about St. Louis and its environs I guess, if you start with Chuck Berry and include East St. Louis to snag Miles Davis, thenceforth to the Nelly - Chingy axis

oh and again for St. Louis environs I guess you can get the Tupelo/Wilco ecosystem from the Illinois side

Slaughter is the OG Vegas band

Downey, CA had the Carpenters! ... but hey, it is fun to list cities and musicians "from" them, as well as to compare Jacksonville to Canterbury as well as pointing out blind spots other posters have in terms of "music" ... still though, it seems like there are multiple competing definitions of "significance" here that lead to the perceived punching ability.

Also, for all the non-US posters in this thread, do you want to see more or less of "Americans suck at world geography" ...

re: Chicago I think Chicago is rated appropriately for its contributions to American music, relative to its size as a city.

I mean there is like a whole genre of blues music named after it

I haven't contributed much because I honestly have no idea what the thread is about.xp

I mean, I see how as classical composers go, Britain punched below its weight compared to Austria.

Chicago is such an amazing music city

Chicago blues
House music
Chicago rock (Touch & Go and ancillary scene, Electrical Audio etc)
Post Rock (Tortoise and affiliates, Thrill Jockey bands)
No Wave/Skin Graft
Drill music
Cool underground jazz scene

I was contemplating the deep Richmondness of GWAR, and how they sorta blended the elements of two earlier RVA denizens, Edgar Alan Poe and Bill Bojangles Robinson.

I mean, I see how as classical composers go, Britain punched below its weight compared to Austria.

Sund4r OTM! However as Renaissance dramatists and High Modern novelists go, Britain probably punched above its weight compared to, say, Indonesia.

In New Wave and post-punk music, I think Britain did very well compared to, say, North Korea. But that's sort of stacking the deck because naturally, excellence is likelier to occur in regions that tend to value a particular pursuit.

I guess the thread is assuming that music = broadly popular forms of reasonably contemporary anglophone music. Which is a fair assumption.

In terms of the study of geology and the discovery of prehistoric fossil dinosaurs, the Western U.S. and arid regions of East Asia have punched above their weight, because more vegetated regions naturally produce fewer such discoveries. Similarly, one would never suggest that Alaska punches above its weight in terms of glaciers, because it totally makes sense that there would be glaciers at that latitude. Show me a glacier in Nicaragua, though, and I'm gonna be pretty frkn impressed

But there was a whole I-64 corridor ecosystem of jam- and jam-adjacent hippie acts for a while.

Virginia, North Carolina and New Jersey are all hindered in this thread by having heavyweight populations spread across interstate-conjoined welterweight/middleweight towns.

I was contemplating the deep Richmondness of GWAR, and how they sorta blended the elements of two earlier RVA denizens, Edgar Alan Poe and Bill Bojangles Robinson.

lol, I just meant that if you were interested in rock music and spent time in Richmond in the years 1985-2010 there was a decent chance that you knew a member of Gwar or knew someone who did.

If you were seated at a booth in the Village Cafe in about 1992, there was a nonzero chance that booth to your left contained Dave Brockie from Gwar and the booth to your right contained Stefan from the Dave Matthews Band. Not sure that exact configuration ever happened but I saw both of them there so it seems plausible

does being responsible for the Dave Matthews Band count as punching above one's weight or punching below the belt, regardless of weight class?

I guess the thread is assuming that music = broadly popular forms of reasonably contemporary anglophone music. Which is a fair assumption

Sure but I'm not sure how we're supposed to be deciding both the weight class and the punching strength of different US and UK cities in this context. Afaict, being a smaller city puts you in a lower weight class, unless your city is known for music, in which case you are moved to a higher weight class and no longer punch above your weight, which seems a bit circular.

There's also confusion resulting from the disconnect whether cities are known for their cultural profile in general versus their profile in music. A city that doesn't produce many fine-art painters or literary novelists per person may well have a lot of "popular" musicians.

Cities that punch below their weight = Leeds.

^ especially if compared to eg sheffield

You think? Mekons, Gang of Four, Sisters of Mercy, Wedding Present, Scritti Politti, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Cribs, Alt-J, Pale Saints, Utah Saints, Delta 5 ...

Most of those are student bands. Scritti Politti are not from Leeds!

lol this reminds me of people clowning some reporter who stated that E-40 was from Oakland

Sure but I'm not sure how we're supposed to be deciding both the weight class and the punching strength of different US and UK cities in this context. Afaict, being a smaller city puts you in a lower weight class, unless your city is known for music, in which case you are moved to a higher weight class and no longer punch above your weight, which seems a bit circular.

I didn't expect so much emphasis would be placed on the weight class metaphor. I could have said "relatively small cities that have produced a suprising amount of notable musical acts" or something, but I guess that didn't seem as snazzy.

And some relatively small cities are so legendary for their contributions to music (New Orleans, Nashville, Memphis) that it seems almost beside the point to mention them, making them (in a very loose sense) "disqualified" from the discussion. For punching too hard in their (higher?) weight class, I guess.

Do student bands not count? Why else do you think so many college towns (Athens, etc.) produce so many bands?

I thought Scritti Politti formed as (erm) a college band at Leeds Polytechnic?

Like, for sure, Green Gartside is Welsh. But Jon Langford is Welsh, too, yet the Mekons are a Leeds band.

i've been thinking about this in relation to my city, salt lake, which has a strong history of punk and punk-derived music, and even had a film made about it, but which is not really visible in the larger music-crit dialogue. ogden, ut might be even more invisible, but it was kind of a jazz hotbed for a few decades. obviously lack of population is a factor wrt the mountain west.

I know nothing about Utah music - I figured SLC Punk was set there because it was incongruous (never actually saw the movie), and I had no idea about Ogden and jazz. Please elaborate!

Yeah I get it if it's more about the size of the city. Some posts seemed to be interpreting it as more about the city's musical or cultural prominence, which seemed to lead to the circular confusion.

Soft Cell are from Leeds too tbf, also shite like the Kaiser Chiefs

Utah's most notable musical group is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

The Osmonds!

Utah might "win" for best/worst import/export ratio in terms of notable musicians being born/growing up there but leaving, as opposed to people from elsewhere moving there and having noteworthy musical careers/contributions

I put it in terms of cultural prominence in the OP, I think because I had an inchoate idea that there would be some relatively small cities so known for arts/culture in general that high musical output would be expected, and some larger cities so renowned as cultural dead spots that high musical output would be surprising.

Now I'm not sure there really are any of the former. Salt Lake City (1.2 million in the metro) might be a good example of the latter, though.

Tucson does okay despite its size and isolation:

Linda Ronstadt
Steve Roach
Giant Sand
Calexico
Friends of Dean Martinez
Black Sun Ensemble
Rainier Ptacek
Bob Log III

bonus: Paul McCartney was on his ranch there often and you could run into him at the 7-11

I get what Sund4r is saying here, critiquing the premise. Which is good and right.

And the college thing is of course a complicating factor. Particularly in a USian context. On its own, Athens, Georgia would probably not have produced very many globally famous bands were it not for the presence of a university (which drew artsy-minded individuals from the region into its kudzu-bedecked bosom).

Ditto Olympia, Washington; Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

I mean, like, whomst among us does not worship Archers of Loaf?

But without the collegiate atmosphere there would be no Loaf and no Archers thereof.

You think? Mekons, Gang of Four, Sisters of Mercy, Wedding Present, Scritti Politti, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Cribs, Alt-J, Pale Saints, Utah Saints, Delta 5 ...

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday,

all these years on from my constant mentioning of Age of Chance ... all for nothing.
also please add : Nightmares On Wax and LFO

So, like, Sleater-Kinney formed in Olympia but the members were drawn there from elsewhere in the PNW. Do we credit the Oly "scene" or do we simply thank the fates that happened to assemble those specific people there in that specific time near that specific highway sign?

apropos of this there is a sign on I-64 that says Croaker Norge. I am not aware of a band named Croaker Norge but I am almost certain that someone from William & Mary has at least considered it. A different sign on I-95 says Carmel Church / Bowling Green but you could also read it as Carmel Bowling / Church Green. It's right there for the taking, band-name-seekers. just sayin

Yeah it's definitely circular -- so I kinda discounted that part and interpreted it as "cities that have a much greater significant musical output / legacy / significance compared to other cities of the same size" -- and also I totally don't consider where a musician was born or spent a few years as a child as being "points" for that city. For me, it's about, where did they actually perform or record or produce the music of significance.

So, like, Sleater-Kinney formed in Olympia but the members were drawn there from elsewhere in the PNW. Do we credit the Oly "scene" or do we simply thank the fates that happened to assemble those specific people there in that specific time near that specific highway sign?

yes, you credit Olympia. Like there have undoubtedly been numerous threads (as well as books) about this, but there are definite infrastructural elements to creating and maintaining music scenes in the physical/urban realm.

And the college thing is of course a complicating factor. Particularly in a USian context. On its own, Athens, Georgia would probably not have produced very many globally famous bands were it not for the presence of a university (which drew artsy-minded individuals from the region into its kudzu-bedecked bosom).

Ditto Olympia, Washington; Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

I posted something similar upthread. But now I don't think this is quite fair to those college towns. They're still the exception - after all, when has there been a noted music scene around State College PA, Charlottesville VA, Champaign IL, Lawrence KS, Fort Collins CO, etc. etc.?

Sure, a lot of it is what people go to college in those places to do ... like, Olympia is home to Evergreen State which attracts a different type of person than say, San Luis Obispo, CA, home to Cal Poly, the Stanford for Agri-Businesspeople

Like, it is really amazing how many successful farmers and managers of food companies spent time in San Luis Obispo! It really punches above its weight there

See also Lafayette, IN (isn't that where Purdue is -- like the Cal Poly of the midwest) -- yes it was home to Dow Jones and the Industrials and a few others but -- it would be trounced by Bloomington, IN, home of IU (which has an acclaimed music program)

Do student bands not count? Why else do you think so many college towns (Athens, etc.) produce so many bands?

I thought Scritti Politti formed as (erm) a college band at Leeds Polytechnic?

It's a grey area I suppose. No-one in Scritti Politti was from Leeds, ditto the Gang of Four and the Mekons. Scritti Politti, as a recording band, were based in London, don't know about the other two.

That's certainly true about Evergreen. But most of the scenes mentioned are adjaced to big state schools. Do UNC or the University of Georgia attract a very different type of student than, say, UVA?

lol @ sarahell

perhaps we are unfairly ignoring the radical new agribusiness scenesters and the groundbreaking work they're doing re: soybeans

I thought about nominating Bloomington but aside from MX80 Sound, The Gizmos, and the Secretly Canadian label there's not much that got national traction in any way, Joshua Bell aside

Also, a big difference between Leeds and somewhere like Athens, GA, is it's officially the 3rd biggest city in the UK, bigger than Manchester, Glasgow, Liverpool, Bristol, you name it, all of which have produced far more music.

Do UNC or the University of Georgia attract a very different type of student than, say, UVA?

The UVA student profile (and Duke students, not far from UNC-CH) runs a bit more pre-professional than Georgia or UNC, but I think the key thing is how Athens and Chapel Hill are amenable to post-college dawdling, dropouts, hanger-ons and attracting eccentrics in general (though not now like the 20th Century). I don't know Austin, and it's so huge now it's not an issue, but seems like it was that way in the 70s-90s as well.

xp MX80 relocated to Berkeley, CA, as you know ... and here's another thing, speaking of national traction ... and places like Chapel Hill, Athens, Richmond ... they are on the East Coast and touring is way more economical and convenient. Getting to NYC (where historically careers get made) and getting a number of other gigs lined up in a sensible itinerary is easier. Like, compared to Bloomington, Boise, Boulder. Geography plays a role in national traction.

xp bendy - I have a number of friends who dropped out, dawdled and hangered on in Austin in the 90s. otm

also, like, where do the audiences come from? You need a population of dawdlers and hangers-on to actually come to your gigs and make your scene a scene

excellent point!

Also, a big difference between Leeds and somewhere like Athens, GA, is it's officially the 3rd biggest city in the UK, bigger than Manchester, Glasgow, Liverpool, Bristol, you name it, all of which have produced far more music.

― When Smeato Met Moaty (Tom D.),

absolutely.
which is why i did not name leeds as a possibility earlier in the thread - was tempted of course, but came to the same conclusion as per tom d.
i just wanted to add a few names to the list, that's all.

a similar thing happens in canada. the third largest city, calgary, has produced very little music. and the music it does produce isn't widely popular outside of alberta

http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/uk_topcities.html

^ this is a list of UK cities/metropolitan areas ranked by population and honestly I would struggle to name a single decent act from half the top 20. the likes of Brighton and Canterbury are way down the list, so both decent shouts

Kind of a weird list, Fife?!?!?!

Dunfermline + ???

does it matter if the acts are decent though?

(xp) The Skids! The list is a strange, random list of actual cities (Manchester), metropolitan areas (no way Liverpool is bigger than Manchester) and counties (Fife! South Lanarkshire!!)

control f "Batley Variety Club" and I think the guy from Black Lace who got sent down for benefit fraud used to live in Batley as well.

yes. I mean 'punching above your weight' suggests quality rather than quantity? xps

In that case. Paisley produced Chou Pahrot so we win.

this thread is hilariously entertaining because no one knows what is happening here

the original concept is solid enough but (in tru ilx0r style) once people start pulling at the threads it's doomed

why this but not that

okay why that but not this

why (thing that ilxor has an irrational pet peeve about) but not (sentimental favorite that ilxor has undying love for)

okay but you're forgetting (idiosyncratic personal agenda) and also ("guilty pleasure" (said in a mocking tone (so as to denote that the poster objects to the framing of pleasures as if they could or should be guilty)))

oh and (irrelevant beef from fourteen years ago) so I won't even dignify your post by responding to it

bye

a similar thing happens in canada. the third largest city, calgary, has produced very little music. and the music it does produce isn't widely popular outside of alberta

Tbf Calgary is a distant fourth if we go by metro/'population centre' population.

A few international names here - Tegan & Sara, Tate McRae, Rae Spoon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Musicians_from_Calgary

The first result for "Canadian cities by population 2021" includes an entry for North York (636,000), which hasn't actually been a city for more than 20 years. Someone's not keeping track.

We should do a thread like this but for countries that punch above their weight although the winner would very probably Sweden.

*probable be Sweden

Oh goddamit

Charlottesville, VA has a mostly folk and jazz scene, not much indie rock. The amazing Happy Flowers were from there though.

Arlington, Va had a pretty interesting and varied scene in the 80s and 90s.

this thread also has the disorienting, wild west feel of the New Jersey thread's early days

i don't think it has "New Jersey thread" potential, mind you, just saying that sometimes threads surprise you

Another interesting digression could be cities that used to produce a ton of acts but now don't. Like Boston. What was the last notable band from Boston? Huuuuuge college town, and yet ... crickets.

Gainesville, Florida, had a ton of success with mainstream roots music in the 1960s and 1970s - Stephen Stills, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and Don Felder and Bernie Leadon of the Eagles. Felder learned some guitar licks from Duane Allman who lived nearby. They also had The Motels a little later.

Charlottesville, VA has a mostly folk and jazz scene, not much indie rock. The amazing Happy Flowers were from there though.

― A Pile of Ants (Boring, Maryland),

do u know that Pavement, Yo La Tengo, and Silver Jews all have key members from the same Charlottesville scene?

https://books.google.com/books/about/Regarding_Charlottesville_Music.html?id=mUhizQEACAAJ

Amanda Palmer is a hard act to follow

yes. I mean 'punching above your weight' suggests quality rather than quantity? xps

― o shit the sheriff (NickB), Wednesday, December 15, 2021 12:38 PM (four hours ago)

So the winner is Boston

xxp to myself - that would be Malkmus, McNew, and Berman btw

Tbh I’m surprised that more stars haven’t come out of Gainesville in recent times. I always loved the music scene there. It’s as if the best bands from there habitually fail to make it while bands like Less Than Jake do. This conundrum exists in other places too, I’m sure of it.

This conundrum exists in other places too, I’m sure of it.

lol ... so many awesome musicians and bands in the SF Bay, yet we gave the world: Journey, Train, Third Eye Blind, Huey Lewis & the News ... like, playlists for decades of Patrick Batemans

okay, it isn't all Patrick Bateman playlist fodder ... idk ... would Patrick Bateman have been a fan of the hits of MC Hammer, namely "2 Legit 2 Quit" and "Can't Touch This"? ... though that would be a totally different thread: what music would Patrick Bateman like outside of the canonical works?

Vallejo is a pretty great answer

I find it improbable that he did not know who Slint and Bonnie Prince billy were, much less hadn't met them… when he made it clear to me that he wanted me to get lost, it suggested to me that he didn't like being asked about those artists and didn't wanna be considered in a lineage or context with them… on the other hand, maybe he got tired of talking to some rando writer asshole and did what he needed to get rid of me…but his composure was pleasant and engaged until i mentioned those acts…

Post needs footnotes

lol fair: My Morning Jacket, David Berman, Silver Jew Bulletin Board

did it attract confused geriatrics who wanted to know what to get their grandchild for their Bar or Bat Mitzvahs?

did people create sock puppets like that?

Not really too interested in hashing this out much, but in the defense of Charlottesville, here are some non-folk and jazz things to note:

The label Jagjaguwar began in Charlottesville; USAisaMonster, the great 2000s band, began there (and their space the Pudhouse was a major part of the warehouse circuit including Fort Thunder etc.); Feel It! records started there (great label for punk/post-punk/hardcore/weirdo rock); a bunch of great music writers did radio shows at WTJU (Rob Sheffield, Joe Gross, Marc Masters, etc.)

Not really gonna lay out all the other punk and indie bands etc. that have been good, but Fried Egg for instance was a hardcore band that folks loved for a bit that had Charlottesville members. It ain't all folk and jazz at all.

how can you forget Dave Matthews

Already mentioned upthread. As are Happy Flowers and other big names that put a bit of time in there. Can add Karl Precoda for you, of Dream Syndicate note, who had a great project named Last Days of May for a time in town.

Silver JewS Bulletin Board

xxposts that would have been a p good sock.

thank u grandavis for correcting my error, Cville had Jagjaguwar not Secretly Canadian

Yeah. Basically left town to partner with Secretly Canadian and share resources etc.

USAisaMonster, the great 2000s band, began there (and their space the Pudhouse was a major part of the warehouse circuit including Fort Thunder etc.);

rad band, good people! I used to book them at my warehouse that was part of that circuit

Ah cool sarahell! They are good people, Charlottesville was lucky to have them for a while.

wow, as I have told grandavis in person previously, I also have a USAisaMonster connection, they played in our basement a lot when they were just starting out, I somehow feel like one of them was from Corvallis?

probably late 2001 to early 2002?

Colin was from New England (CT/Boston) and Thom Hohman was from Michigan (he grew up with that crew connected to Bulb Records/Wolf Eyes/Andrew WK/Twig from Nautical Almanac etc.). They met in Boston and moved to Charlottesville due to mutual friends living there and it being cheap at the time (hard to believe now but back then it was). But yeah they are why so many Michigan and Providence/Boston bands came through town so early in that era.

I'm baffled as to why they apparently lived in Oregon back then. I'm FB friends with Colin, I should ask him.

Gary, Indiana gave us the Jacksons.
Considering it's Gary, I'd say that's a TKO.

Just looked up Feel It records and yeah there's a lot of good stuff on this label, I don't own any of these records but they've got Gen Pop, Rik & The Pigs, Bad Noids, Beta Boys, Alien Nosejob, Kaleidoscope (NY) etc

Part of me always wants to get off the freeway and check out Gary when I travel between MI and Chicago but man everything about it is just so absolutely un-enticing.

But it drips along softly on the tongue!

@MidwestModern just finished up an extensive photo tour of Gary's crumbling architecture and I'd check it out just for that.

Interesting photos but it fails to capture the smell.

Jlin is from the Gary footwork scene, maybe still lives there. One of my fave 21rst Century composer-producer DJs/artists of any kind, even though new EP seems mostly like a working holiday, "getting out of my head" amid more choreography commissions. Check out her bandcamp.
Didn't know Bill Berry was born in Duluth, but did know Dylan was. Says in Chronicles he used to stay there with his granny (when his parents needed a break, I say). He may have prowled around the newspaper stacks there like he also mentions having done in NYC, so may have known about the Duluth lynchings (also, his father still lived there when they took place), which some think are referenced in the first verse of "Desolation Row," as seems plausible: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2001/06/15/postcard-from-a-lynching

Sleeve, not sure that there was any reason that USAisaMonster ended up in Portland/Oregon other than that they wanted a change and to get out of Charlottesville. I think they had at least one or two friends there but I think mainly they wanted to take a break from the East Coast. They were only there for a year I think then moved to NYC.

And yeah, Feel It is a good label. Based out of Richmond now. A lot of the folks that put on hardcore/punk shows in Charlottesville all moved there over the last 5 years or so.