Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2022

No polling, just arguing. Seventeen nominees this year:

A Tribe Called Quest
Pat Benatar
Beck
Kate Bush
Devo
Duran Duran
Eminem
Eurythmics
Judas Priest
Fela Kuti
MC5
New York Dolls
Dolly Parton
Rage Against The Machine
Lionel Richie
Carly Simon
Dionne Warwick

Grimly looking forward to another Lucy-and-the-football year for the MC5

I'll be voting for Devo, Judas Priest, and Fela (and two more TBD), none of whom will be inducted.

Benatar definitely getting in before Kate Bush.

I wish I could vote in this one.

Objectively: New York Dolls, Dionne Warwick, Beck, Dolly Parton, Eminem. Subjectively: first three, replace the last two with A Tribe Called Quest and the MC5. I have a Fela Kuti best-of since the last induction, but still an arm's-length appreciation at best; if someone else says he needs to go in, I wouldn't argue.

Wait, how is Dolly not in yet? Today I learned there are only 11 artists in both the rock hall and country hall of fames, but I'm still shocked they could not find a way to shoehorn her in before this.

I'll reiterate what I said last year - nominate songs or maybe albums instead of artists. This is just a rock wax museum.

https://i0.wp.com/www.thesmokies.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Hollywood-Wax-Museum.jpg?resize=1024%2C538&ssl=1

I hate RATM so much, hope they never get in (or DO get in, whichever irks them more)

Morello is on the nominating committee, and while he, like Grohl, is surely too savvy to openly lobby, his position as such and the band's identity as a multi-million selling G/B/D act that housebroke hip-hop, hardcore and metal into major label alt rock and also agitated for leftist causes in ways that Jon Landau and his ilk would approve of, not to mention the more quotidian electorate, will prove irresistible. But then I woulda thought it was irresistible this past year.

Wait, how is Dolly not in yet? Today I learned there are only 11 artists in both the rock hall and country hall of fames, but I'm still shocked they could not find a way to shoehorn her in before this.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, February 2, 2022 8:37 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The R&RHOF has never been *just* about rock music, but it seems like it's only been within the last few years (probably starting with induction of Madonna and Grandmaster Flash in late 2000s) that the Hall has been more deliberate about looking beyond (certain kinds of) rock music. Plus, people have obviously liked Dolly Parton for a long time, but her elevation to the level of National Icon and Symbol of Unity is also fairly recent.

I'd definitely vote for Dolly, but Jesus, she's had records since the mid-'60s - it's pretty late in the game and it kind of sucks that they have to put in her direct competition with so many others who are long overdue for an induction.

I can see the New York Dolls and MC5 getting shafted and put in as "early influencers" which would be a cop out.

No way in hell should Lionel Richie or Carly Simon be in. I imagine there's more support for Duran Duran and Pat Benatar, but no way should they be in.

Really surprised and disappointed that OutKast and Lucinda Williams have yet to be nominated.

Let's say, just for the purposes of this discussion, that the "rock era" went from Sgt Pepper's to 2000, which is more or less the last time "rock music," specifically Linkin Park/RATM/LInkin park/Nickelback, was a truly mass market concern. During that 33 year period, a person who was engaged with rock music, loved the notion of rock music, valued going to shows, made a point to possess physical music in a collection, etc, would have at the every least an opinion of or had heard one or more songs by every one of those artists…and yet, there is no reason to think that anyone other than record collectors/rock nerds would have ever heard the music of the Dolls or the MC5, as well as Fela. Even Kate Bush has one song "Running up the hill" that the average lumpen american rock fan (there is no reason to talk about any other kind of music person here other than american seeing as it's only the US that gives a plugged nickel re: the RRhoF) who at least was paying marginal attention in 1986 know.

Has Cher ever been on the ballot? Seriously, I think she should be in--from a commercial standpoint at least. She's the only person to have #1 singles on Billboard (not always the pop chart) for six decades.

Per @alshipley, women (or woman-fronted acts) never *nominated* for the R&RHOF:

Cher
Alanis Morrisette
Bjork
The Carpenters
Tori Amos
Mariah Carey
Cyndi Lauper
Big Mama Thornton
The B-52’s
No Doubt
Garbage
The Bangles
Hole
The Runaways
Sleater-Kinneyhttps://t.co/mvyDEYLXCN

— John M. Cunningham (@jmcunning) February 2, 2022

jaymc OTM

Good list...missing the Shangri-Las? I can't seem to find out if they've at least been nominated. And not even to get into the likes of X-Ray Spex, Liliput, the Adverts, and other non-American artists.

Looks like they have not been.

Ha! Didn't realize that was a jaymc tweet (which I poached off Ned, and contains a link to a some dude byline).

The big missing female BritPunk name is Siouxsie & The Banshees.

mariah and bjork seem like they will definitely make it in at some point

bangles and s-k would make my personal hall of fame, but it would take a lot for them to get in

b-52s seem to be very underrated by the public at large, they should already be in.

There's a B-52's doc in the works, so if it can rise above music doc saturation, yeah they've got an increased chance.

Siouxsie & the Banshees if you place more weight on general fame and (I'm guessing) record sales, but I'd put X-Ray Spex and Liliput comfortably ahead of them in artistic achievement; influence, I don't know.

Souixsie will never get in
sucks but never

B52s have a few songs most ppl in America know so they have a shot

Siouxsie & the Banshees if you place more weight on general fame and (I'm guessing) record sales, but I'd put X-Ray Spex and Liliput comfortably ahead of them in artistic achievement; influence, I don't know.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 2, 2022 2:11 PM (eight hours ago)

This statement has thrown me for a loop, and I can't let it pass. If it were a contest between Siouxsie & the Banshees' first album and X-Ray Spex's first album I would favor the latter, which is my favorite punk LP of all time - yes, I think it's better than the Sex Pistols' and The Clash's debuts.

However, Siouxsie & the Banshees went on to make 10 more wildly innovative albums, while X-Ray Spex made zero more. So to me it's not even close. Siouxsie & the Banshees are a Hall of Fame-type act whereas X-Ray Spex were a brilliant flash in the pan.

I'll defer to your familiarity with their work--no personal interest after "Hong Kong Garden"--but is that the general view, 10 wildly innovative albums? I used to keep up reasonably well, and just don't don't remember them being written about much through the '80s and '90s. (And Poly Styrene herself, of course, went on to make more music; in inducting X-Ray Spex, you'd really be inducting her.)

Anyway, my Cher comment notwithstanding, I tend to favor brilliant flashes in the pan. It's the old peak vs. career value argument.

I'm personally all for brilliant flash-in-the-pans too. X-Ray Spex, the original Modern Lovers (with Jerry Harrison, Chris Robinson and Ernie Brooks), etc...like the Sex Pistols, I'd trade their one real album over every scrap recorded by quite a few HOF inductees.

I'm glad the HOF is making a push to include more women, but they've done a wildly uneven job of it. I'm glad that the Go-Go's got in and that Carole King was recognized as a recording artist, but Stevie Nicks? She was already in (deservingly so), she doesn't need another artist induction for her solo career (which is mostly awful). And now we have mediocrities like Pat Benatar (nominated yet again) and Carly Simon.

Sleater-Kinney, PJ Harvey, Björk, Lucinda Williams, the Shangri-Las, Liz Phair, the B-52's and X-Ray Spex all should have been in there by now, and they have ZERO nominations between them.

It's tougher to make the argument for the never-nominated Cyndi Lauper, the Bangles (I much prefer the earlier stuff) and Hole but I'd vote them in.

Repeat nominees Kate Bush, the Marvelettes, Dionne Warwick and Rufus (with Chaka Khan - her best work was with them) should all be in there too.

(Forgot the original Flying Burrito Brothers - I'd induct the ones who did The Gilded Palace of Sin)

x-posts You're claiming no personal interest after "Hong Kong Garden," which is their debut single from 1978. So that writes off all the rest of their career.

Although I think their first album is great - and their second less great (though it has its fans, especially here on ILM) - I'd say they really hit their stride with Kaleidoscope in 1980, where the rhythmic side of the band got much more interesting. And then they kept innovating with every album, at least through 1988. It's a massive body of work, and their performing career spans the earliest days of punk to the first Lollapalooza tour.

You can't hear everything by everybody, right? You make judgements based on what information you have. I wasn't completely oblivious to them after 1978--I'd hear stray songs here and there--but nothing that made me want to investigate more. I used to keep up with record reviews pretty well, and some publications and reviewers could induce me to buy something I normally wouldn't, and I'm pretty sure I would have bought more if I'd read reviews that shared your enthusiasm. I guess I just heard the wrong songs and missed the great reviews.

It is surprising that the Shangri-Las have never even been nominated; they seem to check all the boxes… (or maybe I’m overestimating their regard amongst the rock-canon set)

Yeah. I get all that. And I realize not everyone thinks as highly of Siouxsie & the Banshees. I think they’re quite underestimated in terms of artistic influence, but that’s one dog’s opinion.

The Shangri-Las should definitely be in the Hall, and from the ballot, Devo and the NY Dolls, I mean why is there even a question about those two groups.

(xpost)

I need to explore Siouxsie & the Banshees a bit more, but here's someone else making the case for them as well:

"Lead vocalist-songwriter Siouxsie Sioux befriended the Pistols and other punk rockers during punk’s initial boom in the mid-70s. She even appeared as one of the subjects during the Sex Pistols’ infamous television interview on The Bill Grundy Show in 1976. During this time, she was slowly kickstarting her own band and somehow survived when most of punk’s originators fizzled. Her band The Banshees adopted more art-rock elements that would ultimately serve as one of the earliest examples of modern alternative rock. Their two-decade run made them one of alternative rock’s longest-tenured bands. The band went through several lineup changes and Sioux and Steve Severin are the only two constants in the band’s history. It’s worth noting The Cure’s Robert Smith and Sex Pistols’ Sid Vicious both served tenures in the Banshees’ lineup at some point too...They influenced an array of subgenres including goth rock, new wave, synth-pop and shoegazing. Traces of Siouxsie and the Banshees’ influence can heard in the music of Joy Division, Depeche Mode, PJ Harvey, Smashing Pumpkins and Arcade Fire. Radiohead’s Thom Yorke once said he decided to become a musician after seeing a Banshees concert in the mid-1980s."

This is a start at least:

POLL: Siouxsie & The Banshees albums

xxxp Yeah I’m also really surprised the Dolls aren’t in already (and sadly only one member is living now)

I hope every single one of them makes it!!

(xposts) Yeah, I looked at their Wikipedia entry, and their influence appears to be much greater than I thought--lots of quotes from other musicians. Also checked Pazz & Jop, and they didn't place an album through the '80s and '90s, but that's just the Top 40 via Christgau's site, so maybe they had a few in the 40-100 range. Not much attention from Christgau or Rolling Stone; maybe they get more in the Spin guide or on Pitchfork lists, I don't know.

I don't really get why the Stooges went in and the Dolls haven't. Their timeline, influence, critical acclaim, degree of solo success, etc. seem comparable.

xpost this is how i feel. who fuckin' cares? put 'em all in there. everyone on that list made a lot of music and a lot of people happy for a long time. that's hard to do!

Okay, but not Lydia Lunch. She just made people miserable, and she did it on purpose.

Stooges getting in meant Iggy got in, and that wasn't happening with him as a solo artist.

If critics like Robert Christgau and Greil Marcus hadn't turned down their invitations to join the original board for the Hall of Fame (when the voting pool was much, much smaller), I'm sure bands they've championed like the New York Dolls, Pere Ubu, the Replacements, Hüsker Dü et al would've had a fairly decent shot at getting in. At the time they opposed the idea of a Hall of Fame, which is why they flat out declined, but since then they've complained about who was getting in and who wasn't every single year.

i think the stooges got in largely because iggy had essentially been campaigning for it for the last two decades. the nydolls had to be goaded into reuniting, never exerted any promotional muscle, and publicly expressed mixed feelings about the hall (mixed meaning syl wanted in and david couldn't be bothered).
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/david-johansen-sylvain-sylvain-1115612/

Right up until Lalapalooza and the alternative floodgates opening, I feel like Siouxsie didn’t have any cachet as a pop band in the States. They were a goth subculture band with a large following but still only sporadically available in record stores outside of urban hipster neighborhoods and nothing crossover for MTV, like the Cure or Love and Rockets. I did get Once Upon a Time in a mall record shop but it was probably in the “S” section not their own bin.

That mid-eighties party scene in Stranger Things with a girl in perfect Siouxsie make up one one of those false notes like rural kids knowing about the Smiths in 1983.

A Tribe Called Quest
Kate Bush
Devo
Fela Kuti
Dolly Parton
Dionne Warwick

xpost - at least as a kid who'd read about each band for a long time before I heard them, the Stooges still feel way more modern and heavy than the Dolls, who I now love but just kinda seemed like a lower horsepower version of 70s Aerosmith when I first heard them, sounded old fashioned and rock n roll

whereas the "Search and Destroy" I was like oh shit this rules, this is exciting

Iggy's post Stooges status as a cool punk icon, his association with Bowie and Lou Reed as a cool trinity thing is really big too, tons of people who don't even know his music that well know of Iggy

I really don't think the Doll's cultural footprint is even close to Iggy's

I could go either way on the Dolls but I think you could make the case that in addition to lighting the fuse specifically w/r/t NY punk, that Kiss, the Sex Pistols, Aerosmith themselves and all those 80s poodle hair-metal bands all have a pretty direct debt to them

And I think their sloppy, debauched, femme/tough presentation is almost as transformative as Iggy's

All their songs are 35 seconds too long though

they should totally be in as should all these bands if our standard is "are they better/more important than the paul butterfield blues band?"

Well...yeah

That's right: every rock fan knows who Iggy is, and "Lust for Life" is by far his best known song cuz of Trainspotting; probly the same amount or more know who Buster Poindexter (likely regarding the Buster act as '80s cornpone) but will go through their lives never hearing a single Dolls tune, which is also to say that those selfsame 80s hair metal acts, barring like Hanoi Rocks, never ever heard the Dolls… and that goes triple for the MC5; "Kick out the Jams" is not terribly well known…

which is also to say that those selfsame 80s hair metal acts, barring like Hanoi Rocks, never ever heard the Dolls

in Nothin' but a Good Time, really fun oral history of hair metal, CC Deville from Poison (an NY guy himself) points out that "Talk Dirty to Me" is just him ripping off "Personality Crisis" which I hadn't noticed before

xpost

I thought CC Deville from Poison was a Johnny Thunders fanboy pre-fame? I realize that isn't a great case for hall enshrinement but I seem to recall references to the Dolls in the pages of Rip back in the day

Also guarantee I Twisted Sister knew who they were

Yeah iirc they mentioned it too.

Surprised that Kate Bush and Dionne Warwick aren't in already. Eminem looks obvious, best selling artist of the 21st century. Fela Kuti and Judas Priest also heavy hitters in their field but maybe not famous enough in the US? How high is ATCQ's profile compared to the other hip-hop inductees (Jay-Z, NWA, Tupac, Public Enemy, etc)? Dolly Parton, don't know how she's seen in the country/rock divide. The rest seems 2nd/3rd tier to me at first glance?

There's a whole boatload of wildly famous MOR/pop acts that could be in (Celine Dion, Barbra Streisand, Barry Manilow, Mariah Carey, Boney M, Backstreet Boys, New Kids On The Block, Julio Iglesias, Olivia Newton-John, The Carpenters, Kenny G, Enya) but I can understand that they're dripfeeding those in, "rock n roll" may not be strictly rock anymore but at least some sort of rockism is still there. Foreign acts like Motörhead, Rammstein, Iron Maiden, Golden Earring, Whitesnake, Scorpions, Roxette etc probably not famous enough in the US? Alice In Chains, Soundgarden?

I'd say Priest is more than big enough in the U.S., though not necessarily with the kind of people who vote in the hall of fame

Yeah I think they sold better in the US than anywhere else in the 80s; Scorpions and Whitesnake also far from obscure. It's only pretty recently that the RRHOF has opened up to any metal at all.

Slayer is probably still a no-go though.

I'd like to think it's more than just rockism keeping Celine Dion, Barry Manilow, Julio Iglesias, and Kenny G out (conceding my own weird biases: I'd be fine with the Carpenters, even though that's the 10-year-old me talking)...A few xposts: didn't know Marcus and Christgau turned down juror spots at the start. Damn--Wussy would be biding their time.

If electronic artists like Kraftwerk are only eligible as "early influencers", then I guess at some point Jean-Michel Jarre and Tangerine Dream get put there too?

Fela Kuti and Judas Priest also heavy hitters in their field but maybe not famous enough in the US?

There was a Fela musical on Broadway. It ran from 2009 to 2012 and was nominated for 11 Tony Awards.

Damn--Wussy would be biding their time.

― clemenza, Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:21 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

hahahahah a+

I'd like to think it's more than just rockism keeping Celine Dion, Barry Manilow, Julio Iglesias, and Kenny G out (conceding my own weird biases: I'd be fine with the Carpenters, even though that's the 10-year-old me talking)

I mean, if they're including those, there are a load of legendary jazz vocalists who should get in first.

The idea of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame without rockism is intriguing, though.

I'd like to think it's more than just rockism keeping Celine Dion, Barry Manilow, Julio Iglesias, and Kenny G out

They're also terrible, period.

If they're including those, I've got a comb, a chair, and a discarded shopping list that should go in first.

LOL, exactly. I say this as someone who listens to a lot of jazz and vocal pop - no way I'd induct them over, say, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday or Tony Bennett.

And that's why, even though I have a deep nostalgia for "Close to You" and "Superstar" and some other Carpenters songs, I really don't want them in the HOF. That would be one dreadful slippery slope.

The Dolly nomination raises the question of "Why not Patsy Cline?"

Not meme-able enough

In 1971, David Bowie wore a dress on the UK cover of The Man Who Sold the World. The New York Dolls formed the same year. Jay Jay saw them at the Fillmore, several times. "I know the guys, and if they weren't dressed the way they were, they would be laughed out of town. They were a terrible band. I went a lot, because I couldn't believe how much publicity they were getting for a band that sucked so badly." He loved the look, though.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/jay-jay-french-twisted-business-lessons-my-life-rocknroll

xxp that’s looking like another slippery slope. If Dolly goes in, so should Patsy Cline, but also Lefty Frizzell, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Loretta Lynn, Willie Nelson…

They should probably make a new honorary category for them instead of having them compete in the main performer slots (hence pushing other overdue inductees out).

Meanwhile Gram Parsons is still missing altogether, wtf

brenda lee is in.

Brenda Lee made fine records but her HOF induction was really overdoing it.

Again, more women is great but they’re picking the wrong ones. It’s like lavishing awards on a Nora Ephron comedy while completely ignoring Claire Denis’s masterpieces.

Here's some innovative suggestions for the Hall:

- Tiers of Fame, so certain artists are honoured more than others, and a proper Rock hierarchy can be set in stone
- Genre Wings, so that e.g. Soft Rock, Post-Punk, Country-Metal etc. can be isolated and sanctioned without contaminating that Old Time Rock and Roll
- Rock Hell, containing the year's most egregiously cancelled performer; haven't decided if this should be permanent or just a one-year position

Hall of Shame might be a more fitting title than Rock Hell.

Very much in favor of the Rock and Roll Hell of Infamy. We need a balance of some sort.

Then we can start arguing about whether someone belongs in the punk, post-punk, or new wave wing...Your tiers is how the baseball HOF is often discussed: the inner circle (Ruth, Mays...), the rest, and the Hall of the Very Good if you fall just short.

Dolly pulls a Curt Schilling--but an honorable one (Facebook post):

Dolly here! Even though I am extremely flattered and grateful to be nominated for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, I don't feel that I have earned that right. I really do not want votes to be split because of me, so I must respectfully bow out. I do hope that the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame will understand and be willing to consider me again - if I'm ever worthy. This has, however, inspired me to put out a hopefully great rock 'n' roll album at some point in the future, which I have always wanted to do! My husband is a total rock 'n' roll freak, and has always encouraged me to do one. I wish all of the nominees good luck and thank you again for the compliment. Rock on!

I hope about 20-25 inductees are inspired to retroactively pull out...

(Quite needless, by the way--besides her own pop hits, she wrote one of the biggest pop hits ever, and then you move on to her real artistic claim on the HOF, an umbrella that does include certain country artists, even if I couldn't really explain which ones count and which ones don't.)

I'm imagining Dolly doing that scrunched-up face, quick "Oh gosh, no thank you!" sort of no. Super polite, but firmly not interested. I find it hard not to like someone turning the RRHoF down.

There are many, many moments of John Lyndon being unlikable but yeah, that moment when he said "were not your monkey and so what?" was not one of them.

Dolly rejected the honor in advance, though. Lyndon loved the attention

"This has, however, inspired me to put out a hopefully great rock 'n' roll album at some point in the future"--as someone who panics over every minor (non-existent, even) health issue, that made me smile.

Dolly Parton do you like analog recording https://t.co/B2jj5AqazP

— steve albini (@electricalWSOP) March 15, 2022

New qualifications for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: record one (1) rock album?

After all, Ringo and Dylan each recorded a country album, surely they're in the Country Hall of Fame? And Jerry Garcia played on three songs of an Ornette Coleman record, securing his place in the Jazz Hall of Fame?

Yeah - I can see the argument that this move (sadly) bolsters the case of those "rock only!" purists. "See, even Dolly agrees! No rap! No r&b! No disco!"

Dionne Warwick said something the other day too--she thinks it should be renamed the Music Hall of Fame. I agree, though; these things portend a much less interesting HOF.

It's probably that Dolly (and Dionne for that matter) don't want to be included as tokens; and in 2022 Rock no longer has the cultural cachet to sell itself as the umbrella name for music in general.

What Dolly is actually saying is “I see you starting to point your leftover Betty White energy at me, and I’m good.”

— Dave Holmes (@DaveHolmes) March 14, 2022

xp "Tokens" as country artists, or women(?) Anyway, Dolly said she hopes to be "worthy" of induction someday, after recording a "great r&r album" – which seems to validate the "only rock in the Rock Hall!" crowd.

I wonder if it makes more sense for Dolly to be inducted as an "early influence" given how that category's been more or less redefined? There would be no traditional ballot, just a selection, and it could be appropriate given the influence her best work (late '60s to the mid-'70s) had on the rootsier and country-influenced side of rock. That would also pave the way for Loretta Lynn and Merle Haggard in similar fashion as they clearly had stronger ties to rock than other country artists who have yet to be inducted. The only country artists I'd induct as full-on performers in the HOF would be Sun artists like Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis and of course Gram Parsons who will probably get in as an "early influence" the way Kraftwerk did.

i feel like the news that

take two: i feel like the news that dolly wants to do a big biopic/broadway show explains why she might turn this down. Why allow an organization that has never done anything for you and won't do much for you in the future determine your PR schedule when you want to carefully control your image around what might end up being a nine figure project?

https://nypost.com/2022/03/22/dolly-parton-in-talks-for-musical-biopic-and-eyes-a-big-star/

I hope some people who might have been inclined to vote for Parton will vote for Pat Benatar instead. (I voted Benatar, Devo, Judas Priest, Fela and MC5.)

Kate Bush in my case, but yeah.

They both recorded "Wuthering Heights", it's a toss-up.

Eminem getting in his first year of eligibility and Fela still locked out is really pathetic.

never liked m&m kurtis blow deserves to be in there way before now!

if only Fela had a body of work that could stand up against a titanic act like the Eurythmics

Wow @ that list. Cool to see recognition for Belafonte and Cotten, though.

What is the distinction between receiving a Musical Excellence Award and being inducted as an artist? The descriptions of those categories are almost identical. Does this mean Judas Priest are recognized for songwriting as well as performing?

Of course the whole thing is bullshit, let's take that as a given, but I am not seeing the logic on inducting a reluctant Dolly.

Anyway like every other corny oldster I will never not love the music I loved when I was thirteen years old.

So I guess yay Pat Benatar, Lionel Richie, Eurythmics, Duran Duran?

Otm to whoever said upthread that rock is showing its insecurity about no longer being an umbrella term for music in general

Beloved rock pioneer Francisco Tàrrega left out again.

Breaking The Hall Breaking The Hall!

apparently Dolly announced last week that she'd had a change of heart

Warren Cuccurullo is among the recognized inducted members of Jran Jran, making him possibly the first inductee with their own signature dildo.

I'd bet most Americans have never heard of Fela Kuti.

Popular with Catholic girls aiui xp

(That was a reference to the WC shoutout on Zappa's "Catholic Girls" tbc, not my own perviness.)

Dolly did have change of heart:

In her initial explanation for why she was declining the Rock Hall’s nomination, Parton wrote, “I don’t feel that I have earned that right.” After the Rock Hall confirmed that she could still be inducted despite her statement, Parton gave an interview saying she’d “accept gracefully.” She added: “When I said that, it was always my belief that the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame was for the people in rock music, and I have found out lately that it’s not necessarily that.”

JFC, they inducted the absolute worst nominees who had no business even being nominated. When the Clear Channel/"iHeart" exec took over, did he muscle in all his radio programmers into the voting committee too?

What is the distinction between receiving a Musical Excellence Award and being inducted as an artist? The descriptions of those categories are almost identical. Does this mean Judas Priest are recognized for songwriting as well as performing?

― And liberty she pirouette (Sund4r), Wednesday, May 4, 2022 9:12 AM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I *think* -- and I'm not positive about this -- that Musical Excellence was awarded mainly to session musicians, who wouldn't have been inducted as part of a band. So, think members of the Funk Brothers and the Wrecking Crew (Jamerson, King Curtis, Blaine, etc.). But the E Street Band got in on that category because they weren't part of Bruce's induction. And Ringo got in on Musical Excellence mainly because the other solo Beatles had been inducted, but he couldn't reasonably get in on his solo records, so they had to throw him a Musically Excellent bone.

That said, it doesn't make any sense that Priest would get in under Musical Excellence, unless that category is somehow being redefined as "we don't really want to induct you, but...you can hang out here if you want."

Ask for an early MTV class of inductees, settle for an early VH1 class.

I'd bet most Americans have never heard of Fela Kuti.

i would venture that the # of 2022 Americans who could correctly answer the question "who are Eurythmics" is not dramatically higher

JFC, they inducted the absolute worst nominees who had no business even being nominated.

― birdistheword, Wednesday, May 4, 2022 10:05 AM (nine minutes ago)

dis Jran Jran and I send the dogs after you

We have this conversation every year. Fela, I suppose, is "better" than Eurythmics, but the Hall doesn't reward mere aesthetic merit.

Eminem has neither aesthetic nor social importance.

Now that Duran Duran are in, perhaps David Sylvian can join Robert Johnson and Skip James in the Hall as an "early influence". Imagine trying to teach the history of rock music into the 80s and 90s with only the inductees as examples!

Beloved rock pioneer Francisco Tàrrega left out again.

He'll have to get in line behind Mike Oldfield:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AckUPng8yvk

I'd bet most Americans have never heard of Fela Kuti.

i would venture that the # of 2022 Americans who could correctly answer the question "who are Eurythmics" is not dramatically higher

Nah, they are a staple of '80s throwback radio and playlists.

what did Don 'n' Glenn think?

I'm not a big Eminem fan, I think his records have aged poorly partly because the lyrics are virtually time-stamped to the day they were written, but others have made strong arguments for his work so I have no problem with his induction.

I don't hate Duran Duran, they're fine lads, but even their best singles felt pretty bloodless to me.

Eurythmics are classic rock now. I agree they are much more widely known in the US than Fela.

Definitely. I was familiar with them and even Annie Lennox's own solo work before I even knew who they were by name. Fela was someone I had to find myself.

Both Eurythmics and Carly Simon are mainly known for one massive song (Sweet Dreams and You’re So Vain).

I don't buy the effectiveness of no-one-knows-their-name. Teens and college students hear stuff in the ether, but I know they recognize tunes even if they don't know the artist. Besides, if they don't know a name, they can google it.

Sidenote: at an e-board meeting of the student paper I advise, the incoming editor in chief strummed -- get this -- Bowie's "Criminal World." When, flabbergasted, I asked how she knew this obscurity, she goes, "It came up on a Bowie playlist when I was looking for 'Life on Mars.'"

Eminem is the biggest artist of the 21st century, of course he gets in immediately, I don’t see why that’s controversial.

Because he's the Eric Clapton of hip-hop?

(Setting aside where ol' Slowhand has ended up with virus nonsense: white dude who is 'technically accomplished' getting in before, oh, I dunno, Tribe? Yeah that figures.)

Eminem is Elvis/Beatles level famous, Clapton or Tribe are poor comparisons.

I don't think Clapton is less famous?

Eminem’s induction before Tribe (or Outkast, Salt n Pepa, Eric B and Rakim, Wu Tang, Queen Latifah, etc etc etc) is very much in keeping with the long history of canon building in American music. It goes way back before Elvis and the RRHOF - think Gershwin over Ellington and Armstrong. Think Stephen Foster.

Run DMC, Tupac, Jay-Z, Grandmaster Flash & TF5, LL Cool J, Biggie, NWA and Public Enemy are all in, and Eminem is definitely more famous than a few of those (but obv, younger).

They take way too long inducting a lot of people, so the unfairness of inducting one before the other doesn't have as much weight anymore. I wouldn't delay someone else just because they failed to induct Tribe after seven years of eligibility.

Tribe never had a big mainstream hit. Their appeal has always been a bit college/alternative niche.

Probably. Going by charts and sales, "Can I Kick It?" was definitely a hit, but not a massive one. I didn't know anyone who listened to Tribe as a kid, I had to seek them out later when I wanted to stray further from what was playing on Top 40 radio.

the nominating committee now uses the musical excellence category the way they use early influences as a backdoor: the dopey rockist RRHoF electorate (think of now 60-70something former critics for midwestern daily newspapers, the little Hilburns) still dislike metal, so Priest wouldn't get in conventionally, so we can chalk this up to Tom Morello (possibly with the help of Grohl), who also clearly pushed through Randy Rhoades in an identical manner, as others did for LL, Nile and Ringo (because every individual Beatle has to be in). But in this case, this is a band being shoehorned in, whereas previous entrants (except for LL) getting in the back door as such fit easily into the sideman/studio dude category…

similarly, Kraftwerk and Gil Scott were pushed in via "early influences," and just as Priest doesn't at all fit in with the studio cats the category is intended for, those two acts don't fit in with the likes of Patton, Belafonte and Tharpe. So Jon Landau and probly a few other people on the committee keep nominating MC5 and the Dolls; I don't see why Landau and those people can't push through MC5 and the Dolls as an early influence… because what separates the Dolls and the Five from almost every single inductee after 1988 is that the average "rock" fan, white person music devotee or RRHoF voter can name at least one song by each inductee: they know "Hit me with your best Shot," "Sweet Dreams," or "We Got the beat." But those selfsame white rock fans can go though their whole lives without hearing "Kick out the Jams" or "personality Crisis" You have to have at least some relationships to punk culture or rock nerd-dom to know those songs…

Devo? Every RRhoF voter knows "Whip it," but like metal, the voters don't like Devo. Dave Marsh strongly disliked them for their sneering lack of earnest sincerity, and I think this is also true of RRHoF voters.

the little Hilburns

i.e. the long-awaited sequel to Invasion of the Body Snatchers

Eurythmics are classic rock now. I agree they are much more widely known in the US than Fela.

Definitely. I was familiar with them and even Annie Lennox's own solo work before I even knew who they were by name.

splitting hairs but while "Sweet Dreams" is widely known in the US as a classic rock radio staple, idk, i feel like if I told my normie 2022 American coworkers "I'm going to see Eurythmics tonight - you know, the group that does 'Take On Me' and 'Mexican Radio'" a huge percentage would respond "Oh yeah I love those songs, great band! Dont forget your piano key necktie!" Not saying that makes them less known than Fela, but ime they definitely stand out on the list as being less of a household name today than the other inductees (at least in the states), obviously just being inducted on the strength of one song.

Are classic rock stations really playing "Sweet Dreams"? Not around here, unless you're counting 'adult hits'/'JACK FM' type stations.

I think of "Here Comes the Rain Again" as the Eurythmics song I'm most likely to hear on the radio (when skies are grey).
I've heard three of their albums and like several songs, but I give them extra points for packing it in an an entity soon after they peaked.

"as an entity"

Also think Annie Lennox would have more name recognition with some "normie Americans" even today than Stan Ridgway and, uh, the A-ha guy.

Even Dave Stewart!

fair point Sund4r, yeah i kind of lazily catalog all that stuff under the same banner since (around me at least) theres tons of overlap, my local 'classic rock' station plays lots of synth-heavy 80s hits that also get played on jack fm

Cannibal Corpse for HOF

the nominating committee now uses the musical excellence category the way they use early influences as a backdoor: the dopey rockist RRHoF electorate (think of now 60-70something former critics for midwestern daily newspapers, the little Hilburns) still dislike metal, so Priest wouldn't get in conventionally, so we can chalk this up to Tom Morello (possibly with the help of Grohl), who also clearly pushed through Randy Rhoades in an identical manner, as others did for LL, Nile and Ringo (because every individual Beatle has to be in). But in this case, this is a band being shoehorned in, whereas previous entrants (except for LL) getting in the back door as such fit easily into the sideman/studio dude category…

From what I was told by [REDACTED], the only reason that Nile Rodgers got saddled with the weird First Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence consolation prize is that "Jann never liked Chic." There was a push a few years back to get a bunch of young-ish metal writers on the nom committee (you know ... priorities), but it apparently wasn't enough to tip the scale for Maiden or Motorhead. I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes these days, but I imagine someone's thumb is still on the scale if we're still not getting the Monkees

I think the weird backdoor bullshit awards for black artists like LL Cool J and Nile Rodgers (not to mention LGBT artists like Judas Priest) is obviously a ripoff and hugely disrespectful not to mention fucking stupid, but that won't drive clickbait headlines as much as "fake award finally given to women" so no one cares. This whole thing is just for gawkers and HBO Max dads and the earnestness in which people argue about it is lame.

First Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence

That's the first thing that came to mind when they first unveiled it while doing away with the "sidemen" category. I imagine more than a few snickered at the initial proposal and brought up how the generic name was close to a Simpsons joke.

Oh, Jann Wenner doesn't like Chic? I would be interested to know what black musical artists Jann Wenner does like…like legitimately likes, apart from who Mick Jagger or Billy Joel or Mick Jones told him he should like… RS was super super super uncomfortable with whatever black music was popular at any particular time and would only advocate as such when any innovation was in the rear view… maybe his decades younger husband, who very likely had a much more conventional gay life, which might not have involved trying to pass as straight as Wenner did for so long, has an understanding of black music that could help him… he was said to be really ill at ease around black people at RS and never hired any black staffers until Toure in the early 00s…

Realizing Kraftwerk and Gil-Scott got booby-prizes too.

Because he's the Eric Clapton of hip-hop?

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, May 4, 2022 9:56 AM

white artists ripping off black music? in the ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME? unthinkable!

I forgot about the fan vote. Basically everyone who got at least 300,000 fan votes (all fans can vote once per day, FWIW) ended up getting inducted in some fashion. Everyone below that didn't make it. Fela Kuti was in last place by a large margin with 69,656 votes. (The MC5 was next with 93,666.)

Rockin’ out to Carly Simon’s “That’s the Way I’ve Always Heard it Should Be” in celebration. Next I’ll put on one of her standards albums.

934k Duran Duran fans can’t be wrong

Duran Duran over Fela Kuti by a 40 to 3 ratio...again, I don't hate Duran Duran, but that feels pretty wrong.

It’s almost like people who have good taste in music don’t give a shit about this

And vice versa.

I told my son Eminem was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (Eminem is one of the few artists he knows), and he said – “Eminem is rock and roll?”

On first read I thought you were saying Eminem was your son

my son, Eminem

Eminem sonned in RRHOF beef

Eminem is indeed morrisp’s son, but he talks in the third person.