Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

I'll do the usual two lists.

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon.

Objective: all of those, add Willie Nelson for sure, maybe Kate Bush and George Michael. Cyndi Lauper is tough: one hugely important album and not much else.

Cyndi Lauper will be acknowledged for her work forging the worlds of rock and wrestling.

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Once you're off the ballot after having been on, are you off forever? I thought for sure there was momentum for Dionne Warwick. Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I will absolutely be voting for:

Iron Maiden
Soundgarden
Warren Zevon

I will consider voting for:

Sheryl Crow
Joy Division + New Order (an absurd concept)
Cyndi Lauper
Rage Against the Machine

I will not vote for any of the others, either because they're not "rock 'n' roll" in even the broadest sense, or I just don't like their music. Not telling which is which.

Kate Bush - yes
Sheryl Crow - no
Missy Elliott - fuck yes
Iron Maiden - MEGA FUCK YES
Joy Division + New Order - absolutely
Cyndi Lauper - yes
George Michael - yes
Willie Nelson - yes
Rage Against The Machine - no
Soundgarden - yes
The Spinners - definitely
A Tribe Called Quest - yes
The White Stripes - no
Warren Zevon - don't know them well but from what i know yes

xps I think you can come back ... Chaka's been in and out over the years, and Femi Kuti sure as hell better get another shot in the future

I vote only for things that aren't technically rock 'n' roll because fuck off

as usual "Burn down the R&RHoF" isn't an option, smh

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon

Swap Zevon for Kate Bush and that's my ballot

i think it's been long established that it's really more of an overall music hall of fame at this point rather than strictly genre specific.

and that's fine! i like it that way

Would vote for the Spinners, Missy Elliott, and Tribe. Surprised the Spinners weren't already in.

And I didn't realize "but that's not rock 'n' roll!" was still a thing outside of the Steve Hoffman forums.

Yeah, you can come back to the ballot after dropping off. Chic was nominated in 2003, 2006-09, 2011, and 2013-17.

the five i'd vote for: tribe, joy division/new order, zevon, kate bush, iron maiden

soundgarden and rage are my runners up. feels incredibly dumb that there's a rock and roll hall of fame and iron maiden isn't in there, but what can you do

Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I think the equivalent of this is the Musical Excellence category, which iirc started out as a way to honor sidemen and session players but recently inducted LL Cool J and Judas Priest.

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/categories/musical-excellence

it's funny how Kate Bush went from being a near impossibility to I think maybe a lock due to Stranger Things

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 9:09 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same deal with the Faces/Small Faces. Two very different bands, but there was no other way each band was getting in separately (especially the Small Faces).

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

Maiden has put in the work.

yeah there's zero rationale for metallica being in the hall and not maiden

lol I was going to say, there are over 100 million reasons. But while a quick google didn't come up with anything definitive, Maiden is surprisingly competitive on the record sale front!

Maiden should be in for several reasons:

• one of the best live bands on the planet
• one of the most instantly recognizable mascots
• Bruce Dickinson's scream on "The Number of the Beast"

i mean the whole thing is dumb but the fact that blue oyster cult will never make it really infuriates me.

Maiden, Kate and JD/NO are my immediate three locks; Missy and Tribe are my likely remainder. That said I really do want George in there.

Blame Will Ferrell tbh

yeah that's part of it :/

I think Willie Nelson's got a lane pretty wide open to get in here

Willie Nelson - I'm surprised he isn't already in

I pretty much assume he's in in a walk similar to Dolly last year. And if Maiden gets in as is right I want them to duet on "On the Road Again."

If Willie Nelson does not get in I will lose all respect for this storied institution.

Did you guys watch Dolly’s “rock ‘n’ roll” song at the end of last year’s ceremony?

I think the Joy Division/New Order grouping is okay--for the reason Tarfumes gave, and also because it's an American institution, and Joy Division didn't have the impact there that they did in Britain, so it's a way to acknowledge them, even though it's probably more of a New Order nomination. I've said many times in these threads that a British HOF, with Slade and the Jam and the Pet Shop Boys, etc., would be really interesting.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush. So: Cramps 2024!

Maiden deserves their own hall of fame, they transcend this institution.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:45 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't really get this. even if she doesn't get in this time, the hoopla has undoubtedly helped her establish her bonafides as an artist that carries serious cultural and commercial weight, especially in the u.s.

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

no idea how they'll fit the entire Maiden experience into whatever dusty corner of the Hall they shove them into. for one of the defining acts of the genre to be on the waiting list, ugh....foo fighters being enshrined before them is like collective soul getting in while led zep remains locked out.

if i had five: kate bush, iron maiden, joy division/new order, willie, tribe

i'm assuming of course the reality is it'll be sheryl crow, cyndi lauper, rage, soundgarden, white stripes

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:53 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes it will definitely help her, even if it means she gets in another time, not this year

i'm pro-soundgarden, tbh

also realizing i misread your post and thought you said it wouldn't help her lol xp to clemenza

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh…

I used to read Wyma in the late '80s/early '90s, but his schtick was mostly propping up a kind of phony "authenticity" -- he absolutely trashed Truth Or Dare (and Madonna in general) for the film's supposed lack of "honesty," and there was some not-exactly-subtle misogyny in said trashing (I never got a Marsh vibe from Wyman in the least, and Marsh loved Truth Or Dare). Wyman is indeed hapless outside of (and often inside) his little box of "rock." On one episode of Sound Opinions he went on about how "free jazz" is "when you do what you want and you don't listen to the other musicians." To their credit, the co-hosts tried to correct him and rein him in, but Wyman kept digging. (See also his bizarre contention that "Rock Lobster" was not influenced by Yoko Ono, despite the B-52s explicitly and frequently stating otherwise.)

I think we can all (mostly) agree that all nominees deserve to be in some manner of hall of fame, but when I think about the R&RHOF it seems like the whole point is the ceremony, which implies the live performance, and a "classy" opportunity/excuse for certain people/combinations of people to perform one more time/pay tribute to people that have passed that are responsible for celebrated music...

And in that spirit I would be excited about maybe Kate Bush agreeing to sing on television once more, or Meg White playing the drums one more time, or Soundgarden with guest singers ala the Nirvana induction which I thought was excellent, or a similar kinda thing with George Michael, but y'know give all these people their flowers imo

Just want to point out that Link Wray is still not in. Not under "musical excellence," not an "early influence," nothing.

He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

when Cornell passed I listened to a ton of Soundgarden and that band was incredible, I hadn't really listened to them closely, but what a group of musicians.

xp (Like, the Charlotte Adigery album was in his top 5 last year.)

Soundgarden was so fuckin good, i spent a fair amount of time during the pandemic listening to them while holed up and they're better than anyone remembers, just a deep rich sound and with one of the great singers in rock music.

some of the rock bands that have made it in during their period of eligibility are embarrassing to think about in comparison.

I think I posted this somewhere else, and it might be behind a paywall, but Marcus and Jon Landau talking about the HOF:

https://greilmarcus.substack.com/p/back-and-forth-with-jon-landau-on

(If it is behind a paywall, Landau has Link Wray on his list of 19 artists he thinks should be in. And he talks about the whole definition of "rock and roll" thing--Landau used to chair the nominating committee.)

Since you only get one vote here, I went with the Spinners. Not that they're necessarily the most obvious pick from that list, but they're the one that most should have been in long ago.

Voted Iron Maiden

UP THE IRONS

Cyndi Lauper is an intersting 'problem' inasmuch as I agree that she basically only has the one fantastic and impactful album (although I also stan pretty hard for Blue Angel)...but it's actually pretty goddamn impressive that she's basically still considered a part of the '80s pop pantheon on the basis of that one album (plus 'True Colors') (plus the Pee-wee's Playhouse theme) (plus this).

haven't predicted who i think will get in, so i might as well go on the record: white stripes, willie nelson, george michael, kate bush, rage against the machine

foo fighters/dave grohl got in during their first year of eligibility, so i think there's no reason why white stripes/jack white won't. feels like those two guys are the prevailing torch-bearers for old school, capital-r rock these days

yeah plus jack white's done all sorts of stuff like that paramount records old time blues box set, etc

I got no problem with JD/New Order as a unit -- it's politics, man.

Small relief that this year won't be as bad as last year.

The only nominee I would never consider is Sheryl Crow. Everyone else has something that makes their induction feel deserving.

(And it's almost a given Crow will get in based on their recent inductees.)

Encyclopaedia Britannica has a single article on Joy Division/New Order (written by Jon Savage).

Among artists who had one album disproportionately successful compared to everything else they ever did, I'd be hard pressed to think of one that covers every pathway to the HOF--sales, chart success, critical acclaim, influence, impact and fame in a general cultural sense--better than She's So Unusual. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

I agree w/birdistheword's initial comments re: Crow

(and not just as a matter of taste – e.g., I loathe RATM, but get why they're "deserving")

and now you do what they told ya

I think NO/JD gets in as The Cure broke the mold for these types of bands and Depeche Mode made it last year. George Michael and Soundgatden should also make it.

Soundgarden really took a stratospheric jump after Ben Shepherd joined the band. I mean, I love Louder Than Love, Ultramega O.K., all the early stuff, but they became a much more interesting and multi-faceted group after that. Largely due to his songwriting contributions as well as even some of the tunings

The only nominee I would never consider is Sheryl Crow. Everyone else has something that makes their induction feel deserving.

I agree w/birdistheword's initial comments re: Crow

yeah but have y'all considered lightening up and/or soaking up the sun

Soundgarden, Lauper, and Sheryl Crow have got to be the least influential acts here, which is why I assume they'll get in.

Yeah, nobody sounds like Soundgarden or cites them as an influence; they were a real one-off proposition, almost forgotten, really.

Re: Nelson, I think Dolly Parton's instincts were correct. Both of them should be in, but rather than taking up a spot on the ballot, they should be committee inductions - except for Johnny Cash (who's unique given his time at Sun Records), country artists had been inducted that way anyway. I imagine it's just a way to drum up more PR - the months spanning the voting process probably gets a little more attention when Nelson or Parton are included in the conversation.

Re: Lauper, it really does come down to one amazing album. Twenty years ago I would've said She's So Unusual wasn't enough, but at this point, it's more than enough.

Soundgarden were good and successful. In terms of notable bands really trying to sound like them, Nirvana and Pearl Jam inspired far more copycats. So did Rage, which is why I didn't mention them.

does inspiration, like, have to mean 'created a lot of soundalike bands', as opposed to, inspired a lot of people to start making/recording music?

Soundgarden was a pastiche of a lot of 70s influences and they were definitely a band with buzz but not much more commercially, but their presence was gargantuan for a small period of time, and the excitement for their reunion was pretty high, King Animal was their third highest charting position in their career.

also when it comes to influence I find a lot of bands take a very narrow slice of a band's sound, for instance half of the time you hear someone say something is Alice in Chains influence, all it means is they have a high pitched raspy vocalist who likes to sing close harmonies, and Sabbath influence bands usually pull from like one album's sound (or even just a song).

Goo Goo Dolls messed around with weird tunings on their ballads starting with A Boy Named Goo after never doing it for years, maybe they were touched by the Garden.

Ok so if Lauper is to be defined as having just one great album (with at least five indelible songs)... one might point out that non-nerds (i.e., most of humanity) only know one (or perhaps two) Kate Bush songs.

Not if you live in the UK.

I'd be willing to hear the case that Soundgarden inspired a bunch of people to start bands. To me, they're in a weird spot. Their actual innovations seem relatively small, but they didn't suck. They were like the 3rd biggest Seattle band, and Kurt Cobain's rasp was trendier to emulate, and Vedder's Morrison-isms were easier, than Chris Cornell's howl. As far as making people money, they did do a lot to get the initial buzz going about Seattle.

Pretty sure they were the first of that crowd I actually heard about, in my late 1988/early 89-era "I guess Rolling Stone is mostly where to find out about new music?" mind.

God we've come far enough in time that the White Stripes are eligible. Sad stuff.

Am a fan of:

Kate Bush
Missy Elliott
Joy Division + New Order
George Michael

Enjoy but more-so revere:

Rage Against The Machine
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest

As for who gets in I have no clue it's a very unsurprising list

is influence that important of a factor? soundgarden was just a great rock band that was hard to emulate. frankly, for kids like me nirvana was the one mostly because you felt like you could do that. soundgarden is a harder target to reach.

If Joy Division and New Order get in this year, and Soundgarden and Rage don't, the solution for them next year is obviously to be nominated as Audioslave.

Re: influence and inspiration, I think the "quality" of the influence matters too. On those grounds, Kate Bush, Joy Division/New Order, Willie Nelson, The Spinners and A Tribe Called Quest would be at the top of my list. They didn't follow trends, they broke new ground and took big risks in their respective genres and wound up reshaping the music in the process. Re: New Order, one article stated that "they were formidable underground dance-music presences in the 1980s. They kept at it and the world came to them and they ended up global superstars" - that's pretty much what I'd call a profound influence.

Is it the Hall of Influence? The Hall of Like? The Hall of Deserve?

They could have called it the Hall of Merit, but chose Hall of Fame instead.

Among living people, George Michael is probably more famous than the Spinners or Elizabeth Cotten.

Willie Nelson is among the most famous musicians there is, but is he a rock musician?

they should ban more people from the hall, like in baseball, that would get me interested

also past inductees should be able to be kicked out arbitrarily

and during the ceremony where they get kicked out, a bunch of celeb musicians play their songs really badly on purpose

LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfKT7cJGpY4

Hall of Flame

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

Back in the early to mid '00s (when their show was on WXRT), I remember that playing out once in a while whenever they argued over records. DeRo just seemed dismissive or especially hard on anything that wasn't "rock." To be fair, he seemed to change his mind about things all the time (he's dismissed than praised a lot of artists like Radiohead, the White Stripes, Gang of Four, Joy Division, New Order, David Bowie, etc.), but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's and other times he'd argue with Kot over some Bacharach pop record (probably Dionne Warwick) or possibly a country record, and his final response was "I listen to rock n' roll! What do YOU listen to?" What kind of argument is that coming from someone who's supposed to be an authority on pop music?

1. Genesis and Fleetwood Mac substantially changed almost everything re: each act's music over time, but neither ever changed brand names… these changes were far more gradual than JD/NO, but there was a smaller alteration in personnel in JD/NO… so if its only proper for Joy Division and New Order to be considered as separate inductees, should the Gabriel version have been separately inducted from Collins/Rutherford/Banks? Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

2. I think that, should Maiden be inducted, Steve Harris would at least be dismissive, being that the RRHoF over the past 20 years but certainly now has had very little to do with his very narrow view of rock music. "UFO isn't in? But a bunch of poofters (specifically Depeche Mode, the Cure) and tarts are?"

I still think they should just retroactively just say that LL Cool J, Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Judas Priest are normal inductees, it's so weird and aggravating

Have two groups ever been nominated and/or inducted as a bundle before?

Small Faces/Faces

That seems almost as stark a split a Joy Division/New Order--fanciful mods to carousing bar band.

but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's

In addition to being wrong, it’s also pretty unfair, given how much shorter Redding’s career was. And DeRo blaming Redding for DeRo not being able to spot his influence is pretty rich.

What the fuck is going on with Outkast still not being nominated

Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

One argument in favor of that - it emphasizes that Green’s FM is a great group in its own right. Not news to any of us but I’m stunned how they’ve been marginalized to some extent in the U.S. Their work hasn’t been mastered or reissued properly like it has overseas, and even print publications here treat them like a footnote. I saw a Fleetwood Mac special on the rack, ostensibly covering their entire history, and there was barely much coverage at all on Peter Green et al.

Never even heard of The Spinners

Think I'll go with Kate Bush

Never even heard of The Spinners

they'll be around

like a record baby

Can’t remember where I read this, but during an early ‘80s P-Funk arena show, at the height of an all-hands-on-deck extravaganza, 40 people on stage, lights, confetti…suddenly, everything stopped dead and the lights went out. A single spotlight appeared on stage, and Philippé Wynne walked out in full tuxedo with white tails and sang “A Change Is Gonna Come.”

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Did the trick for me! The two of them separately up against the rest of this list, I would have had a harder time. But together it's like, nobody else here should get in before them.

The Spinners should have been the first Philly Soul artists in the HOF. It’s strange they’re still waiting but the O’Jays have been there for a long while now. Similarly how has King Crimson been overlooked when they should have been the first progressive rock band in the HOF.

"Should have" is a discussion for a Hall of Merit. A Hall of Fame is going to be as fickle and arbitrary as fame itself.

If we treat every band according to what it deserves, whomst should scape whipping? - Oscar Marley Einstein (I think)

Fame alone doesn't cut it - else Weird Al Yankovic, Scooter and J-Lo would be in already. There has to be some sort of gravitas.

For the rest:

Maiden is a shoo-in

Willie Nelson, hell why not if Cash and Dolly are already in

Kate Bush and Missy Elliott look more likely to me than Sheryl Crow and Cyndi Lauper?

Soundgarden, White Stripes and Rage Against The Machine in before an institution like Motörhead seems wrong but that's what it is - I think Soundgarden will get it

ATCQ, fine with me but surely there are higher profile hip-hop artists that should go before them? Wu Tang? Snoop?

Of the 80s stars, I get the feeling that JD/NO stock has been gradually decreasing over the past decades, and George Michael has risen but where we are now, no idea

Warren Zevon probably has the lowest name recognition of this bunch? That probably hurts his chances.

The Spinners, as the oldest act in this list, may not have enough passionate fans left to make the push?

the most r&rhof thing to do would have been to only nominate/induct one of jd/no so i'm disappointed in then

Of 90s/00s groups I think it's unconceivable that Soundgarden, White Stripes, or RATM might actually get voted in before Smashing Pumpkins are even nominated, but I guess I'm odd that way.

Corgan will get in as a living exhibit

I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.

allow me to think that the tommy tutone comment came from xhuxk.

If Maiden doesn't get in should rebrand it POSER HALL OF FAME

i mean soundgarden is a way better band than smashing pumpkins so there is that

Boom

I like SP but Soundgarden is at a higher level

TSF: no, all-Canadian call. And guessing that Chuck'd be okay with Tommy in there!

Thought some more about my own first post above, and subjectively, I think I'd replace Zevon with either Kate Bush or Cyndi Lauper if I could only pick five. I think Zevon should go in (surprised he's not in already), but for myself, I don't know much beyond the two albums I have (first two), and if I match the three songs I love ("Werewolves of London," "Lawyers, Guns and Money," and "Poor Poor Pitiful Me") against "Cloudbusting/The Man with the Child in His Eyes"/"Running Up that Hill" or "Time After Time/Girls Just Wanna Have Fun/Money Changes Everything," I'd give the edge to Bush or Lauper.

Not to be Cap'n Save-a-Sheryl but her career has been longer and more hit-studded than that of Mr. Tutone. She had eight years with a dozen charting singles and ten charting albums.

He had exactly two of each.

I think he was exaggerating for comic effect.

(Tommy Tutone had a second hit?)

i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras all over the place and, like, keith richards and everything. i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies sitting in folding chairs in downtown glen cove. https://patch.com/new-york/glencove/sidemen-featuring-legendary-uptown-horns-play-glen-cove-july-8th-0

When Le Tigre announced their upcoming reunion tour recently, they tweeted, "Tell your mom and her friends! We're going on tour!"

"Your mom and her friends" is the perfect description of Sheryl Crow's audience. She's a major artist.

I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.

LMAO, spot on. I agree, except for Sheryl Crow I'd like to see everyone else get in. Maybe it could be an Oprah-type surprise - "You get in! You get in! Every-body gets in the Hall (but Crow)!"

clemenza, per wiki he actually had a FIRST hit before Jenny

but yeah, I presume someone making this argument is exaggerating

For all arguments of the form "why ___ but not ___," or "why ___ before ___," I will revert to tapping the sign that says "yes it is arbitrary and capricious and fickle; so is fame; so are all human constructs." Because it is done by ballot and by humans, it will inevitably exhibit all the flaws of said humans. To wit, being arbitrary and capricious and fickle and - GASP - inconsistent.

Honestly it's either this discourse, or the aforementioned "set this stupid institution and everything associated with it on fire and decre that this misguided enterprise should have been drowned in (conveniently nearby) Lake Erie before it even had a chance to impinge on our conscious minds with its ridiculously arbitrary and capricious and fickle nature."

Sheryl Crow is probably closer to Mellencamp than Tutone if we’re talking longevity and cultural relevance

The friend who wanted Sheryl Crow in, she was his second choice and he made a pretty impassioned case for her, mentioning a couple of songs I didn't know at all. I do like "Every Day Is a Winding Road." "All I Wanna Do," too, though not as much. Always hated the way she sings "This is L.A.," like I'm too much a rube to understand.

Crow's influence is more pronounced than ever.

Soundgarden def better than SPs IMO, just a massive beast of a band, far better than anyone might remember, this almost liquid heavy sound that was so dense and dark, not the same style at all but some of the peaks of badmotorfinger give me the same feeling as the most out there live jam albums of miles Davis and co from the ‘70s.

o t m

I always took crow saying “this is l.a.” as not an explanation but an slightly stoned exclamation of wonder

Mellencamp's HOF argument really rests on a few records, but I think they had a much more substantial impact than Crow's. He also doesn't have the ugly controversy with Kevin Gilbert et al hanging over his head - it was kind of the opposite where his real breakthrough came from asserting more control over his own work and career.

This may not be up to date, but it's a pretty detailed list of artists not in, how many years they've been eligible, and how many times they've been nominated before:

https://futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List/

i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras
i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies

...and it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall

Genuine Lol

haha

Interesting find, clem ... The never-nommed list and how long they've been eligible is pretty eye-opening

Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio	42
Connie Francis	40
Jan & Dean	38
Dick Dale	36
Peter, Paul & Mary	36
Toots & the Maytals	36
Barry White	35
Cher	33
The Guess Who	33
The Sonics	33
Captain Beefheart	32
Jim Croce	32
Love	32
The Monkees	32
Scott Walker	32
Tommy James & the Shondells	32
Harry Nilsson	31
Can	30
Jethro Tull	30
Silver Apples	30
The Carpenters	29
King Crimson	29
Kool & the Gang	29
Nick Drake	29
Three Dog Night	29
Diana Ross	28
Emerson, Lake & Palmer	28
Sparks	27
Big Star	26
Blue Öyster Cult	26
Neu!	26
The Pointer Sisters	25
Bad Company	24
Brian Eno	24
The Commodores	24
Television	23
The Damned	22
The Runaways	22
Björk	21
The Buzzcocks	21
The Jam	21
Suicide	21
XTC	21
The B-52's	20
Black Flag	20
Siouxsie & the Banshees	20
X	20
Bauhaus	19
The Dead Kennedys	19
Echo and the Bunnymen	19
The Specials	19
"Weird Al" Yankovic	19
INXS	18
Ozzy Osbourne	18
Billy Idol	17
Hüsker Dü	17
Mötley Crüe	17
New Order	17
Sonic Youth	16
Pantera	15
Slayer	15
The Flaming Lips	14
The Jesus and Mary Chain	14
Nick Cave	14
Pet Shop Boys	14
Sade	14
Faith No More	13
Megadeth	13
My Bloody Valentine	13
Stone Roses	13
Gloria Estefan	11
Pixies	11
De La Soul	10
Fugazi	10
Massive Attack	10
The Offspring	10
Pavement	9
Queen Latifah	9
Alice In Chains	8
Blur	8
Mariah Carey	8
Smashing Pumpkins	8
Aphex Twin	7
PJ Harvey	7
Tori Amos	7
Nas	6
Stone Temple Pilots	6
TLC	6
Tool	6
Wu-Tang Clan	6
Outkast	5
Daft Punk	4
Oasis	4
Sleater-Kinney	4
Weezer	4
Wilco	4
The Chemical Brothers	3
Belle & Sebastian	2
Queens of the Stone Age	1

A bunch of those would probably be in already if there was a larger British or European presence in the committee and voting pools.

Guessing Scott Walker, Fairport Convention, Can, King Crimson, Nick Drake, Sparks, Neu!, Brian Eno, Television, The Damned, Wire, The Buzzcocks, The Jam, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Specials, The Smiths, New Order, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Nick Cave, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Massive Attack, Blur and PJ Harvey among many others.

However will Cher and Brian Eno and Massive Attack and Sleater-Kinney survive without the recognition of the HoF? One wonders. Perhaps they are weeping now about the sting of this unconscionable snub. Or maybe (like sensible people) they understand that is a very silly circular conversation and are glad not to have to pretend it is something else, even for an evening.

I think Greil Marcus has made a good point on that. For the artists you mention, sure, it means nothing. But for some of the older artists who are in there, and for many older artists who aren't, it sometimes means a great deal (Marcus bases this on conversations he's had):

I’ve often thought of the Hall of Fame as a terrible if not ridiculous idea, mostly because I hated the stricture of, in this most democratic realm of free speech, elevating some over others. I thought of it as a joke, until I met musicians--most vehemently, Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las--who made plain how much it would mean to them to be included, what a validation it would be, and how excluded, how cast on the garbage heap of those who might as well have never been born, which is to say never played on the radio, they felt over never having the thrill of seeing their names on the wall. So, I took it more seriously.

That sucks if Mary feels that way :(

She doesn't/shouldn't need the validation

xp OTM. I mean, that's pretty much true for the Oscars too - it's silly to consider them representative of what's really the best films out there, especially this year. But it's obvious they mean a LOT to people when they win them - the fact that it's more or less coming from their peers probably helps (politics and campaigning aside). So it feels dickish to shit on something they're happy to get.

Don't forget what Tom Waits said after he was inducted: "I never really cared about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but now I am surprised to discover how much I DO care."

Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.

xp This is the same point I've made on here re: The Grammys... they mean a lot to artists (some of whom I care about), despite all the issues/shortcomings.

From the 500 Songs episode on “Leader Of The Pack”:

Mary now occasionally performs live, and will give the occasional interview, though she never reveals much about herself or the group. She detests them being called a “girl group”, saying that they were rock and roll singers and shouldn’t be defined by their gender — after spending her whole life since she was fifteen having her public image controlled by other people, and for much of that time not being able to work in her chosen field, and after seeing the damage that was done to her sister and their friends, she will now only do things and talk about her life on her own terms. And who can blame her?

I agree about Mary Weiss, and she's definitely not someone who carries around that disappointment of never having been played on the radio--the Shangri-Las have never left the radio, even if they've probably been reduced to "Leader of the Pack," and their many other great songs have mostly disappeared.

I wish the Guess Who would get in, though their chances probably run close to 0%.

Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.

Similarly, when Quincy Jones inducted Nesuhi Ertegun in 1991 his speech was mostly about his own achievements, and he said little about Ertegun. Before the speech, it was assumed that Jones would get in the next year, or the year after…but because his self-serving speech ruffled some feathers, he didn’t actually make it in until 2013.

Seeing as Three Dog Night and the Guess Who won't ever get in on their own, I think they should go in together like Joy Division/New Order. This should be an option for meteoric Top-40 behemoths who aren't taken seriously artistically.

But but but they didn't induct Poco/the Eagles/James Gang together with Linda Rondstadt. Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

For the second time today, I'm not sure if we're just circling around trying to out-deadpan each other...I don't actually think the Guess Who and Three Dog Night should go in together.

Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 3, 2023 12:38 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

Will New Order perform with Hook at the "Ceremony"?

I’m thinking they’re more likely to perform with Ian Curtis

After their nomination was announced, Hook said an induction could serve as "an olive branch" - i.e. he'd be willing to play with New Order and make amends. (At least for one night.)

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

LMAO. Funny how he was replaced with much better guitarists after leaving the Yardbirds and the Bluesbreakers.

Surprised to see Alice In Chains not in yet, but I guess they’ll eventually get to inducing all of the four big grunge bands. Can’t see Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, Tad, The Melvins, Mudhoney, Silverchair, L7, Nickelback, Hole, Dinosaur Jr, etc getting over the bar but then again, nothing surprises me at this point.

Can't wait to hear the arguments for Creed once they're nominated. "They're MAJOR artists - among rock bands, only Linkin Park and the Beatles sold more records in the '90s. Creed IS rock n' roll!"

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut and told rock fans "this act will one day be in the Rock Hall of Fame"? Depeche Mode?

Mellencamp, or I should say Johnny Cougar since it would be the debut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_Street_Incident

Sheryl Crow rocks. I love that story about her crashing the closed audition and landing a gig as MJ's backing vocalist. Hollywood baybee!!

Every time I hear Sheryl Crow’s voice I think, “What’s this an ad for?” Turns out she indeed started out as a professional jingle singer. No idea why she chose to retain that approach to singing throughout her career. I do like “If It Makes You Happy,” though.

It's Willie, but I'm voting for Sheryl Crow because of all the disrespect in this thread. She does rock!!

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut

Billy Joel/Attila?

Attila wouldn't really count as Billy's debut, he recorded two albums with the Hassles before that (which admittedly no-one would have called Hall of Fame-worthy either).

Three Imaginary Boys probably would have seemed less promising than Speak and Spell (from the standpoint of what in 1979 seemed like history-making rock and roll).

Voted Kate Bush just because she's made the most music I like, and a little bit because her induction would tip the applecart a bit in terms of the hall and her own determination to do everything her way. Would she sail to Cleveland to perform?

I mean, she must be one of very few nominees who has never performed a live concert on American soil (Saturday Night Live doesn't count). Joy Division also, but they are sneaking in with New Order.

‘It’s a No From Me’: Two Rock Hall Voters Dissect This Year’s Ballot

https://www.vulture.com/2023/03/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-voters-share-ballots.html

Their take on the Spinners is awful:

Voter 1: They were a great vocal group for the Motown sound. But I feel like they didn’t have a huge impact on other peers of theirs. They’re on the bubble for me. They’re going to just fall short. They definitely had some jams. “I’ll Be Around” and “Working My Way Back to You” are great songs. But again, they’re almost too ephemeral.

They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell - if anything they had a tremendous impact on the PHILLY sound. They were the most successful practitioners of that music, commercially and artistically.

Voter 2: I like the Spinners, but I don’t know if they’re the right fit here. I appreciate the music, but it’s like we break the mold for some things and not others. I’d love to hear the counterargument, but I don’t think the overall influence versus popularity adds up. For me, it’s too far back. I can’t name the lineage of groups that were influenced by them.

Given how often they're sampled, this is baffling. It's not even limited to samples - someone I know tried to make the argument that one of Willow Smith's singles was this underrated masterpiece after it blew up on TikTok, and as soon as I played the opening, it sounded like the backing track was based on 'I'll Be There' but in a lower key.

With the Spinners, I'd count whatever influence they had as an extra; just on how great their music was alone (by which I really mean a representative compilation--although at least one regular-issue album is a classic, 1973's The Spinners), they should go in. Their chart-success, too, although again, I think there should be a level of excellence that gets someone in regardless. (You mean "I'll Be Around," right?) Which, I realize, is the most subjective call of all.

I suppose this doesn't bode well for them going in.

I don’t know if they’re the right fit here.

That’s the same horseshit argument MTV execs made in the early ‘80s for excluding Black acts while putting Hall & Oates in heavy rotation.

(Hall & Oates were inducted in 2014.)

"They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell"

Yes--"It's a Shame" is great, but it's prelude, not a defining song in the way that "I'll Be Around" and "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" are.

The one voter’s point re: why slayer should get in before Iron Maiden:

I think for somebody from metal to be in, we should nominate Slayer for the Hall of Fame. They had a great career. They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

I’m pro-Slayer but…they’re talking about Maiden right?

They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

you'd be hard pressed to find a band with a more international fanbase and has toured more places than maiden

(You mean "I'll Be Around," right?)

Ah, correct, that's what I meant. It really does feel like there's little chance for their induction. They've been nominated several times before, and it's surprising they haven't gotten in when the O'Jays were inducted in 2005. I love the O'Jays too, but they're about on par with each other - it's baffling how nearly 20 years later, the Spinners are still struggling to get in.

One of a Kind Love Affair: The Anthology is probably the best place to hear them, though for some reason they left out "Cupid/I've Loved You For A Long Time." (There's still plenty of room to spare on disc two.)

Maiden STILL plays arenas.

Slayer never drew like they did. Admittedly their final tour was an arena tour but the show I was at was far from sold out

The last four arena shows I've seen of Maiden have been.

Lol what a batshit argument

Would love to talk to that voter

They should let people vote for Best Mascot.

If I were being really flippant, I'd say Ringo--but I love Ringo.

Cyndi Lauper will be acknowledged for her work forging the worlds of rock and wrestling.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 6:06 AM (one month ago)

cyndi lauper isn't even in the wwe hall of fame, which includes donald trump, which is disgusting and maybe she doesn't want any part of that or any hall anyways

is there any reason why a "voter for the rock and roll hall of fame" needs to be anonymous? beyond not rocking the boat and losing their ticket to the yearly cool kids dinner?

Joy Division/New Order

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for them because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

LOL, it's like the ILM poll...

Brings to mind 2016 when I either knew or saw on the news a lot of people who voted for Jill Stein in America or in support of Brexit as a show of protest in the UK, believing Clinton was a lock and Brexit wouldn't happen. Brilliant strategy.

read that vulture article and while i disagree with them a a good deal and they’re factually incorrect a few times, they look like paragons of taste when compared to the ghoulish oscars voters they unearth every year

i looked up the attendance of the Slayer show I saw at PNC Arena in 2019 - 7,011 tickets sold (it seats 21,000 for concerts).

lol. that jibes with my memory of things.

I still think they should just retroactively just say that LL Cool J, Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Judas Priest are normal inductees, it's so weird and aggravating

i've never been to the hall, or even to cleveland, but my understanding of how the inductees are presented in the hall is that everyone is presented as "normal" and the same, with no distinctions made for what route it took to get them in.

I dunno what it’s like now, but that wasn’t the case the handful of times I went to the hall (between 2006 and 2009). I distinctly remember the sign accompanying Louis Jordan’s saxophone and band book identifying him as an “early influence,” and a sign in the Cleveland room saying something along the lines of, “They’re not inductees, they’re just from Cleveland and they gave us some stuff.” (Best part of this room: the hammer and railroad spike donated by David Thomas.)

I went to the induction ceremony at the Barclays Center several years ago, and all of the inductees were treated and presented equally. Like, The Zombies must have gotten in through the Musical Excellence category, but were given a plumb (the penultimate) spot in the line-up that night.

I distinctly remember the sign accompanying Louis Jordan’s saxophone and band book identifying him as an “early influence”

i just looked at the inductee list on the rock hall website and saw that louis jordan, judas priest and everyone else is specifically designated by their route of entry ("musical excellence," "early influence," "performer," etc.), and so i hereby withdraw my attempt to extend a measure of grace to the institution.

The Zombies must have gotten in through the Musical Excellence category

they were voted in!

With time, I'm sure they may make some kind of adjustment that puts everyone on equal plane, whether it's getting rid of the category designations or turning them into footnotes of some kind and making everyone "regular" inductees. Not anytime soon but given how things are evolving, the definitions for those categories are only to grow more awkward and non-sensical. (It already is - Kraftwerk and Louis Jordan are both "early" influences?)

It wouldn't be controversial - like nobody goes to the baseball HOF and says "oh, he's a COMMITTEE induction, not a real induction"

The Baseball Hall of Fame, by contrast, does not differentiate between being voted in by the writers or by a rotating Veterans Committee comprised of ex-players/managers/GMs--even though the politics and inner workings of each are very distinct.

Missed your post...over time that distinction disappears, agree, but in the moment--Harold Baines is the best example--I think many fans are aware of it. And I imagine some people who walk into Cleveland would understand the difference between Chuck Berry and and an early influence they may not have heard of.

I don't remember if there was like an actual place in the Hall where every inductee was listed & some were ghettoized... I do remember some of the exhibits having the "early influence" sign, but in that context it almost felt more like a sign of respect than an asterisk.

Plus they had Andre 3000's jacket from the Stankonia tour, several years before OutKast even became eligible for the Hall, so who fucking knows

FWIW, there's two glaring omissions I noticed recently that should get a committee induction: Lee Dorsey and Huey "Piano" Smith. There's no way they're going to get voted in at this point or possibly nominated - there's too much newer competition - but they're exactly the kind of important figures that a committee should induct.]

Another (checked to confirm): Richard Berry. And not just for "Louie, Louie" (with or without comma)--there's "Riot in Cell Block #9"; the Flairs ("The Big Break" and "Next Time"); and, according to Wikipedia, he also spent time in the Penguins (not mentioned on their page, so I guess he wasn't on "Earth Angel") and a bunch of other doo-wop groups.

Can't believe Soundgarden isn't already in.

Soundgarden will likely get in this time. I think strong competition every time they've been nominated has kept them out. (I think they deserve to be in, but even on this ballot, I'm not even sure I'd put them down as a hypothetical tenth pick, let alone fifth.)

we need to collectively ignore the R&RHOF until they finally stop doing it. it will be such a good day.

I expect the big four grunge bands will all get in, they're just spreading it out a bit.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Joy Division + New Order winning and by double is about as ILM you can get.

Great job, never change

If the top 7 do get inducted, it would be a pretty amazing class of inductees, probably the best in a long while.

I like both JD and NO but combining them seems a bit off (compared to, say, Faces/Small Faces). They are different acts despite the personnel overlap. Compare Jefferson Airplane vis-a-vis Starship.

My entire heart is with Cyndi here (if I had to choose, and fortunately I don't)

Was this poll timed to the announcement? Is that imminent?

Fan voting is ending in a few days so almost.

xp Agree with this

I always thought it should be Joy Division/New Order. It's the same band to me. Just listen to Movement. It's also the only way either band would get in the hall tbh.

I can't believe George Michael isn't already in. It's also his first time being nominated !!!

There is less personnel change between the Joy Division and New Order eras than in comparable lineup shifts in Fleetwood Mac and Genesis. And I think there's less change between what JD and NO did creatively in every respect than there was between FM and Genesis, although I expect you guys to strongly disagree…

less change between what JD and NO did creatively in every respect than there was between FM and Genesis

^^^ 100 million percent this.

the rock hall has spent the better part of 40 years doing mind-bogglingly strange things, but this isn't one of them. this one actually makes sense.

Jefferson Airplane vis-a-vis Starship

Grace Slick was the only shared member by the time Jefferson was dropped from the name, and she's not even an original Airplane member.

Final day of fan voting, but it looks like it's pretty much done:

George Michael
Cyndi Lauper
Warren Zevon
Iron Maiden
Soundgarden

(Willie Nelson is in 6th, behind Soundgarden by well over 20,000 votes.)

Ian is woven into New Order’s lore in some similar ways to how Syd was into later Pink Floyd. I think the big one for me is the song and video for “The Perfect Kiss” where they have that shadow in the door watching them.

I'm surprised Cyndi still has such a big fan base. She's So Unusual was the first record I bought with my allowance and she's the first concert I ever went to (with my dad and two friends), but I still think her time was a bit short to make it into the RRHoF.
I guess she's a bit like Alanis Morrissette, who I'm sure will eventually make it on account of one huge era defining record.

If they’re doing Joy Division+New Order, why not Wham+George Michael?

tbf Ian Curtis had more of an impact than Andrew Ridgeley

feel like the number of classic and iconic tracks Wham released would merit consideration, even if their impact was brief it was massive. like cyndi lauper or guns n roses.

but tying them up w/george michael might've been the way to go.

I would argue that Lauper's post-Unusual career has been significant in a way that other artists' aren't.

She has continued to work and make waves despite having a comparative lack of followup chart success. Collaborations, live work, activism, cool covers, just generally being awesome.

Also? Come the fuck ON. Anyone using the allegedly devastating word "only" in reference to that album betrays a failure of imagination. That record is a goddamn transcendent masterpiece. If she'd come from precisely nowhere a week before it was recorded, and then vanished from the face of the earth after releasing it, she would still be a significant artist.

i think to your average voter, New Order/Joy Division made it because of Unknown Pleasures and the classic New Order singles, not a whole lot different than why Cyndi got in

Cyndi Lauper had quite a career following She's So Unusual, but mostly on stage (Kinky Boots) and acting on television. 30 years ago when the standards seemed much higher, I don't think she would have belonged in the Hall of Fame, but I don't think those standards would've been sustainable in the long run even if they recognized overlooked acts like King Crimson or the New York Dolls, not unless they wanted to average a mere one or two inductees a year. At this point, I think She's So Unusual is more than enough.

The Paul Butterfield Blues Band Line is the RnR Hall of Fame's Mendoza Line, she's in by that measure.

LOL, yeah, that works.

If they’re doing Joy Division+New Order, why not Wham+George Michael?

It feels like they deliberately don't want to see Wham! in the HoF, even though George Michael wrote, arranged and produced mostly everything in those days too. Probably too poppy, not "serious" enough. It took them 15 years to even nominate George, despite his megastar status. His past in Wham! probably didn't help.

bird, let me just reiterate that RRHOF has like seven different agendas at once. Recognize chart achievement, redress historical neglect of particular demographics and/or of entire genres, acknowledge influencers, celebrate the excellence of those who were insufficiently appreciated in their prime, make up for initial critical dismissiveness, laud uncontroversial levels of accomplishment, etc.

The game of "why this artist but not THAT one, who is just as worthy" is a fool's errand.

We should all just relax, because eventually Lil Nas X, Pantera, Bananarama, Nickelback, Steel Pulse, Roxette, Milli Vanilli, Cutting Crew, Tears for Fears, Taj Mahal, and the Spice Girls will all be in there. Even if the sequence doesn't make any rational sense.

Yeah, I hear ya - it does make for a weird mishmash, but at minimum, I've always wanted to see the neglected acts like, say, the New York Dolls get an honor. When you look at the Stooges or the Velvet Underground, you can see that it does feel like a validation for them, regardless of the criticisms thrown at the HOF. There's consolation in knowing the critics love them and that they inspired so many great bands, but I think it still stings a bit when they were discarded or ignored by the industry and certain members are still struggling to make ends meet. Institutions like the HOF or the Grammys or the Oscars have a ton of problems, but they still carry a visible prestige and I like the idea of letting those guys share in that rather than have them fade into obscurity after all they've contributed. Just a random example, Henry "Red" Allen is an amazing trumpet player, one of THE greats...but I don't think his catalog was ever treated that way, to the point where the best representation of it came from British boutique labels specializing in public domain recordings. It feels like he faded into complete and undeserved obscurity a long time ago.

https://www.vulture.com/2023/04/rock-hall-of-fame-member-resigns.html

Missy Elliott, George Michael, Kate Bush, and Chaka Khan (different category) are all in, which makes this the best class in recent memory

wow!

And The Spinners! Damn right!

Special shout out to DJ Kool Herc getting in, now among I dunno the 10 most influential people in the HOF?

Better luck next year ATCQ

i guess it's cool willie got in but it's going to be really annoying when a small handful of country artists are plopped in based on how cool they are online or whatever

whereas Buck Owens who you could argue had a much more real influence on the development of country rock (influence on the Beatles even!) won't ever get in because he's Hee-Haw and corny in ppl's minds

Morgan Wallen will never be inducted

i dunno there's some horrible racists with shitty music already in

Sheryl Crow, really

Fine with that. Eminem got in last year; few things could be worse

Link Wray is FINALLY in, under "musical influence." Not "musical excellence," not "early influence," but "musical influence." Is that a new category? Will there be an "early excellence" category next year?

Not even a bad choice but I would have thought she was a long shot behind a few of the other nominees xp

Sheryls be crowin'

Torn between Cyndi Lauper and The White Stripes for who I'm most surprised didn't get in

Kinda weird to me that RATM makes it in before someone like Zevon. To much Gen X voters imo.

Can't wait for the Missy-Kate Bush duet.

idk if there were more Gen X voters Soundgarden would have gotten in (absolutely fuckin' should have before Rage anyway)

xpost don't give up
cos you got ass

Just read that Missy is the first Black woman to be inducted in her first year of eligibility.

Not Aretha?

Nope -- she was eligible the first year (Little Richard, James Brown, Elvis, etc.), but wasn't inducted until the next year.

Similarly, the Supremes were eligible the same year the Beatles got in -- 1988 -- but weren't inducted until 1990 (third year of eligibility, second nomination).

I find that a bit confusing to the extent that the Beatles predate Aretha's Atlantic albums, but I guess she was recording for Columbia before they ever recorded?

Her first release, "Never Grow Old," was in 1956. Her first album, Aretha, came out on Columbia in 1961.

By the way, her Columbia records are FAR better than they're often made out to be. Some are inconsistent, and have a bit of a grab-bag feel (shoehorning in a few whimsical show tunes here and there), but the performances themselves are all wonderful. Listening to the (now sadly out-of-print) Columbia albums box, one thinks, "You know...I would like to hear her sing the phone book."

Also, re: the Supremes, the criterion is that an artist is eligible 25 years after their first commercial recording. The first Supremes single came out in 1961, which means they were eligible for the first (1986) class. So while they were inducted in their third year of eligibility, they were inducted in 1988, not 1990.

'56?! Had no idea. I didn't even realize the Columbia albums went that far back.

They don't; "Never Grow Old" was a single.

I meant '61 for the albums...Anyway, needless to say, if both the Beatles and Aretha were eligible for the first group, I think they both should have gone in.

my love for bernie taupin has been well chronicled elsewhere on this board but him going in for musical excellence is a magnificent LOL.

Yeah, I honestly don't understand what the rationale was (if any) for not inducting Aretha in 1986.

xp

Wow next you will tell be that RRHoF is both sexist and racist.

In any case, let me say again that the hall is _not_ going to induct acts in the order in which they got famous, their socioeconomic statuses, their proportional levels of fame, their skills, the degree to which they "deserve" induction. Nor is going to indict an act we just heard of a week or a month or a year ago.

I want to get in there with the first "indict" joke, but my mind doesn't work that fast.

idk if there were more Gen X voters Soundgarden would have gotten in (absolutely fuckin' should have before Rage anyway)

― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, May 3, 2023 9:27 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah it really sucks, i'm not saying a big brand name 90s alt rock band needed to get in but Soundgarden is a better band than Rage on so many levels if you were going to induct one

RATM was inevitable probably, once Foo Fighters got in the bar was pretty low for the alt-rock bigtimers. but it's insane to me they're in this soon, i don't see one area where they're not surpassed by Soundgarden, even at the most basic shallow levels HOF voters might gravitate towards.

i don't see one area where they're not surpassed by Soundgarden, even at the most basic shallow levels HOF voters might gravitate towards

rage surpasses soundgarden in the most important area of all: number of band members on the rock hall's nominating committee!

(and also, not at all coincidentally, in number of band members relentlessly making themselves visible and accessible to the music-media industrial complex.)

yeah of course...one from the Grohl playbook

Wray first appeared on the Hall’s ballot in 2014, a distant candidate whose honor would take another nine years. He has received the Musical Influence Award along with DJ Kool Herc, often called the Father of Hip-Hop.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article275007976.html#storylink=cpy

Missy Elliott, George Michael, Kate Bush, and Chaka Khan (different category) are all in, which makes this the best class in recent memory

And The Spinners! Damn right!

Happy for these, especially the Spinners who I honestly thought would never get in (but should've been in decades ago, before Hall & Oates and the O'Jays). I'm pleasantly surprised Chaka managed to get in - I also gave up on her prospects. Happy she's in, but I wish they had included Rufus - except for a couple of singles, her greatest work was easily within that group IMHO.

Better luck next year ATCQ

I thought they were a long shot, but I definitely would have voted for them without hesitation, even with the tough competition this ballot had.

Re: Aretha's Columbia work, I always though this two-CD compilation was a great survey - it's been repackaged under a different title:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_in_Waiting:_The_Columbia_Years_(1960–1965)

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for (Joy Division/New Order) because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

As if anyone needed more proof, "everyone else will vote for them" still the absolute worst voting strategy anyone can have.

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for (Joy Division/New Order) because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

As if anyone needed more proof, "everyone else will vote for them" still the absolute worst voting strategy anyone can have.

yes. but also, who on god's green earth could look at the history of rock hall of fame voting and think joy division and new order were going to get a lot of votes this or any year?

rage surpasses soundgarden in the most important area of all: number of band members on the rock hall's nominating committee!

(and also, not at all coincidentally, in number of band members relentlessly making themselves visible and accessible to the music-media industrial complex.)

yeah, this is absolutely true and probably a good point why, but man Soundgarden is better in so many goddamn ways and I hoped maybe a sympathy induction for Cornell.

also I have such low respect for (most) of the voters that I 100% believe that Kate Bush never would have made it in without Stranger Things (to be clear, she absolutely deserves it, but it wouldn't have happened if the music supervisor picked another '80s song to ressurect)

...like how "Killing Moon" in Donnie Darko was a replacement for "Never Tear Us Apart"?

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

Wasn’t it supposed to be the Replacements’ “Within Your Reach” (which was then relegated to a brief appearance in a less momentous scene)? Either way, still proves your point.

Very happy Kate Bush got in - I thought this was her best chance and didn’t have much confidence it would happen.

Just looked it up - answer’s a bit more complicated:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/say-anything-boombox-scene/

I'm glad of that. The way "Unsatisfied" is used in Adventureland is, I'm confident, greater than anything that would have come out of Say Anything.

“Cameron Crowe really wanted Elvis Costello to do that song,” Skye recalled in a 2018 conversation with Entertainment Weekly. “Then (Costello) saw an early screening of it and didn't want to. And we were all really bummed out.”

LOL... +1 for EC there, IMO

Yeah, Mottola’s got excellent taste.

Forgot, had Joy Division and New Order been inducted, Hook probably would have reunited with them at the ceremony. I’d be down with a cheeseball Parent Trap meets Angels in the Outfield movie where some kids try to reunite them by getting them inducted, only to have their hopes crushed…or so they think!

I have such low respect for (most) of the voters that I 100% believe that Kate Bush never would have made it in without Stranger Things (to be clear, she absolutely deserves it, but it wouldn't have happened if the music supervisor picked another '80s song to ressurect)


^^100% not even debatable

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

Cameron Crowe himself mentioned in a feature about the film published in Musician.

He was afraid Cusack would look like a crazed Fishbone fan.

quietly a little bummed that Cyndi Lauper didn’t make it in, but a decent crop of nominees nonetheless

and of course bummed at no Maiden obv but less surprised by that

Happy about the Spinners, surprised about Cyndi Lauper--she just seems such a perfect HOF choice. I know YMP has posted a few times about how completely arbitrary induction is, but I think she's one of the people who seems obvious on a number of fronts.

Yeah, I kind of wish you could swap out every elected inductee from last year (except Parton) and replace them with every nominee that didn't make it this year.

Torn between Cyndi Lauper and The White Stripes for who I'm most surprised didn't get in

Cyndi Lauper is definitely a gross oversight.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I may not be too qualified to comment cause I mostly stopped listening to new rock around 2000 but it’s hard for me to think of many rock acts from the new millennium that really will ever qualify to be inducted. Eventually they’ll have to move away from rock or just continually lower their standards.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I don't even like them, but have you ever attended a major league sporting event in the US? If you have, you have heard "Seven Nation Army" played over the stadium/arena PA.

No, I haven’t. But yeah that one song ok.

We should all just relax, because eventually Lil Nas X, Pantera, Bananarama, Nickelback, Steel Pulse, Roxette, Milli Vanilli, Cutting Crew, Tears for Fears, Taj Mahal, and the Spice Girls will all be in there. Even if the sequence doesn't make any rational sense.

I’m ride til I die team Steel Pulse. But again not much to draw on from the new millennium is there. I hope one day Superpitcher too will gain the recognition he deserves. Totally unironically.

Jesus Jones inducted in 20 years

Actually going on what ILM taught me I’m thinking Carl Craig was the top artist of the 00’s. ILM had much better taste back then didn’t it, or did I just manage to tune out all the knee jerk poptimist crap.

I love the White Stripes - I don't think Jack White has made a great album since his solo debut in 2012 and he still packs arenas ffs. (I went to his show at Barclays last year.) They'll get in eventually.

Otherwise, in terms of latter day acts, everyone I can think of will probably get in like fifteen or twenty years after they're eligible, maybe even more: Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio...the only 21st century rock act that would've got a quick induction IMHO is Arcade Fire, but that's not going to happen any more. Otherwise all the obvious 21st century predictions are pretty much hip-hop and pop acts.

My favourite band of the century, Wussy, has approximately a 1% chance at the moment.

They need to befriend the nominating committee and butter them up for an "Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence" induction.

40 years ago they would have had a very powerful advocate in Christgau, but I believe his influence has waned somewhat.

IIRC Christgau and Greil Marcus were among the first to be approached about joining the nominating committee but refused to join - then proceeded to complain and criticize who got in and who didn't to this very day.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/fame-95.php

I've never read that, looks interesting. Marcus has written about his own change of heart on the HOF.

Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio

Wilco seems likeliest of this lot, simply because they've been around for a long time and keep putting out music that's generally well-respected. I don't really have a good sense of the Lips' reputation these days. Maybe they get in, but not for a long time. For as exciting as the Strokes, YYYs, and TVOTR were for a few years in the 2000s, they all seem too much like flashes in the pan now. I guess maybe the Strokes have a shot for having put out a single major album that represented a scene. LCD Soundsystem might have a better shot these days, if only because James Murphy has done a lot to burnish its reputation through the well-publicized farewell tour, documentary, comeback, etc.

Honestly, if we're talking 21st century rock bands, you probably can't count Coldplay and the Killers.

Coldplay will definitely get in. For a band that's as widely hated as Coldplay, 1) even this far into their career, they sell out not only arenas but STADIUMS - I saw firsthand when my partner (a huge fan) wanted to go see them at MetLife and I was like JFC Coldplay is this popular even now? 2) they're widely beloved in the rock and pop world. U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums (which they did indeed take), Jay-Z and Beyoncé are fans and went to the show I was at, Kanye West liked them enough to make Chris Martin a prominent guest star on Graduation, Frank Ocean sampled them, and Jay-Z, Rihanna and BTS all recorded hits with them. Hell SPRINGSTEEN was a surprise guest at the same show I attended...if I knew nothing about their music but read all this, I'd probably buy a few albums before I even tried them out.

I can't say I ever put them on before my partner came along, but objectively, I'd rather listen to Coldplay's Greatest Hits (if it existed) over the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) any day.

Tool and System of a Down are more popular and maybe even better than most of these bands we’re talking about but critics hate them.

Like Tool and System of a Down can outsell any of these bands but they stay not getting the magazine covers and critics lists placement and RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock and rich white ppl stay running everything. Same reason Elvis Costello gets in 11 years before Rush.

Muse, Limp Bizkit, Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, Paramore, Maroon 5, they’re all getting in sooner or later.

And it would have been such an easy layup for all the legacy rock media outlets to pivot from “Pearl Jam is our classic rock” to “Deftones is our classic rock” five years ago but everyone found different ways of ignoring an easy goal

It’s so wildly dumb that we (self included) get into an annual conversation about predicting the taste of a bunch of geriatric no-nothings for who gets to be in some arbitrary-yet-deeply-guarded list of famous people

I feel like Cyndi will get there. But the last couple years have sewn Eurythmics, Pat Benatar, Duran Duran, and Go-Gos, Lionel Richie, Janet Jackson, the Cars, and The Cure, so maybe they're pressing pause on early 80s pop for a bit.

the below is from this thread a few months ago… re: the booby/back door prizes awarded this year to Chaka Khan, Link Wray and Al Kooper (it is very odd that Kooper's admirers/pals on the nom committee couldn't make him happen until now)… expect Wyman's update to his most often banal ranking in Vulture in the next couple of days, in which he will huff and puff that George Micheal is a fluffy pop artist, rather like similar admonishments re: Jran Jran and Depeche Mode…

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock

this feels like maybe a total bullshit generalization idk

re Coldplay

U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums

STIPE: "Hey Chris, we can't quite decide whether to call the album 'Fables of the Reconstruction' or 'Reconstruction of the Fables.' What do you think?"

MARTIN: "What? I don't know who you are, and also I'm only 7 years old."

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Maiden is a global stadium-sized band, if they get in it's hardly through a back door?

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Evidently. "Gumby in...Gumby in...Gumby into town..."

Lol

Hah, yeah, "always went to them" isn't exactly accurate.

Re: Wyman, I double-checked to be sure, but he actually listed George Michael as one of the major omissions from the HOF when he first wrote that article. To be fair it doesn't mean he's personally a fan, but I guess that'll be clear when he updates it.

DeRogatis is definitely a "rockist" - it's embarrassing how often he's trashed or dismissed artists from Missy Elliott to Kendrick Lamar on very dubious grounds, only to completely reverse himself a few years later without a word of what he used to think.

Here's the earliest Missy Elliott review that came up in the Sun-Times article:

While Missy Elliott wowed the music industry and the pop and hip-hop worlds with her 1997 debut "Supa Dupa Fly," her tough-talking female gangsta persona struck me as a caricature of genuinely tough and multidimensional women such as Queen Latifah and Yo-Yo. Elliott amplified the attitude, but dropped the substance, creating a straight-faced alternative to Lil' Kim or Foxy Brown. And then she was universally hailed for this dubious accomplishment.

On her second disc, the chinks in her armor are obvious. Much as she claims she's in control of her life, art and business, producer Timbaland is the loudest voice here; his poppy, riff-crazed musical flavor is not a particularly inspired or original one. Factor in the wealth of cameos (by Da Brat, Eminem, Redman, Aaliyah and others) and you'll find yourself asking: Where the heck is Missy Elliott on this Missy Elliott album?

She pops up here and there, asking such charming questions as: "Would you still be in love, baby, if I cut your throat?" It's all tired posturing_empowering only in the sense that it proves that women rappers can be just as empty-headed as their male counterparts.

By 2005, he's praising Elliott and Timbaland as "one of the most groundbreaking pairings in hip-hop history."

Having said that, I don't think Greg Kot's in the same boat, mainly because it was his arguments with DeRogatis on WXRT that made it painfully obvious how doctrinal DeRogatis was about his idea of "rock." Not just a lot of hip-hop, but Dionne Warwick or anything country beyond Johnny Cash would be a point of contention. It was amusing considering how the show's intro emphasized that Kot was the ROCK critic for the Tribune and DeRogatis was the POP critic for the Sun-Times. The one phrase that stuck out for me was when DeRogatis dismissed Kot's defense of a pop-oriented recording with "I listen to ROCK & ROLL! What do YOU listen to?"

* the Sun-Times archive

haven't we been over this already?

Apparently we have - three months ago according to a quick search of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEGRCGO6c4

Love this

so cool!

it was a pretty great ceremony start to finish i thought

New Edition tribute to Spinners was neat

Would have enjoyed an impromptu Andrew Ridgely / jimmy page theramin jam

12 string double neck SG was a real touch of class

but also here’s my question: if he’s playing the whole song on the 12, why do you even need the twin neck? does he just prefer to do it for showoff reasons? is he no longer able to play single neck?
seems v dumb & unnecessary to me

I asked myself the same q. I think it’s because he’s comfortable with the SG and is historically associated with it.

Strange because it’s more of a 6 string thing, he even notes this in his speech

also that

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

100%

miguel does such a beautiful version (sax aside) and then Levine drops that normcore turd like ugh please get lost dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMIRV3ABRTg

Moby Wray

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

lol

but also here’s my question: if he’s playing the whole song on the 12, why do you even need the twin neck? does he just prefer to do it for showoff reasons? is he no longer able to play single neck?
seems v dumb & unnecessary to me

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, November 5, 2023 2:02 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i think it's just for people, it's the classic page thing, in the video i saw (phone video from a different angle) dudes were like yelling THE DOUBLE NECK! THE DOUBLE NECK! YES! lol it's just rock n roll fun

lmao ok fair enough but also: deep eyeroll

i mean what is zeppelin if not awesome ridiculousness?

it's also weird he's doing it on 12 string because that's way harder to play and the song as you said was a six string song

He even flubs the walkdown, typical live Jimmy

i know i know Page is parodying himself st this point but i see him so rarely now i forget what a dork he is

sidebar: the other night i saw the video for Coverdale Page’s “Take Me Me For A Little While” and Page was playing that stupid fucking guitar-harp monstrosity with a straight face … sheer nonsense lol

Oh wow, when the guitar-harp is only the fifth or sixth-most ridiculous thing in your video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ooOf_rih0

That song is heinous but at least the solo redeems it a little. Not sure why he’s on a lift in the video

not sure why almost anything in that video tbh

Here's who is newly eligible this year, allegedly: https://futurerocklegends.com/Year/2024/

50 Cent
After Forever
Annie
Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti
Bad Meets Evil
BBMak
Biffy Clyro
Black Label Society
Blue Man Group
Brad Paisley
Buckcherry
Calla
The Caretaker
Caretaker
Chevelle
Chris Cornell
CKY
Clipse
Coheed & Cambria
Dido
The Distillers
Drowning Pool
Elbow
Eve
Explosions in the Sky
Fantomas
Feist
Further Seems Forever
Gogol Bordello
Halestorm
High on Fire
Hot Hot Heat
Ill Niño
Ja Rule
Jason Mraz
Jennifer Lopez
Jessica Simpson
Joey McIntyre
John Mayer
John Paul Jones
Jordan Knight
Kelis
Laura Veirs
Le Tigre
Lil Wayne
Los Hermanos
Ludacris
M. Ward
Macy Gray
Mandy Moore
Mates of State
My Morning Jacket
Neal Morse
Phil Lesh and Friends
Phoenix
Pillar
Plain White Ts
Radio 4
Rilo Kiley
Röyksopp
Shaman's Harvest
The Shins
Sick Puppies
Sisqó
Sonata Arctica
Splender
Tal Bachman
Ted Leo & the Pharmacists
Tegan & Sara
Thursday
Trapt
UnderOath
Warhorse
Watain
Westlife

Okay I am voting for Blue Man Group

tal bachman in a walk

The Caretaker?

Lil Wayne would seem to cover commercial success/critical acclaim above and beyond...A couple of weeks ago, I heard the Pet Shop Boys on consecutive days out in the world: "What Have I Done to Deserve This?" in a mall record store, then "Always on My Mind" on the radio. I used to resign myself to the idea that they'll never go in because they're more of a British institution, and the HOF has a decided American slant. I've changed my mind on that. It's silly that the PSB aren't in. Will they get a second chance at some point?

I doubt Clipse, Phoenix, Rilo Kiley or The Shins will ever get in (and I'm not even sure any of them deserve to be inducted - only Clipse has made a truly great album IMHO), but I like enough of their stuff to vote for them. (Despite the taint of Garden State, the Shins have made two, maybe three albums I genuinely like.)

don't blame me, i voted for Plain White Ts

If New Order/Joy Division can get nominated together, why not their Canadian equivalent Randy and Tal?

Mates of State, wow. imagine making a list of bands eligible for the RNRHOF and including Mates of State.

that said, i've always though the hall needed more Mraz

That would be pretty awesome if Ted Leo & the Pharmacists get in. I don't think it'll ever happen - not even a nomination - but Leo just strikes me as one of the most decent guys in rock, and he's still doing it after all those years. The story about his wife's illness and everything he did to keep things afloat is moving. I still end up seeing him a lot because of his free shows and opening sets, and over the past eight years he's the only act I know who's managed to give thoughtful, intelligent and earnest pleas to his audience to politically engage without resorting to insults or working himself up into a rage-filled rant.

Feel like "The Caretaker" and "Caretaker" are gonna split the Caretaker vote.

Nobody seems like a slam dunk until Beyonce in 2028. (Kanye is also eligible that year, but I wonder now how that's going to go.)

does the hall have an old-timers' committee like baseball? They Might Be Giants should be in already!

I was trying to find the Harold Baines here, the absolutely average artist who might have the longevity and industry goodwill to make it, the Foo Fighters rule I suppose, but no one fits the bill.

(oh, I see Beyonce and Kanye are actually eligible in 2027 bc they released singles in 2002)

(xpost) That argument is basically made for Ted Leo just above. I don't think you can do that for this HOF. If you took all the reprobates (and much worse) out and started replacing them with good people, it'd be filled with, I don't know, Bruce Hornsby and the guy who sang "Good Morning Starshine." It wouldn't feel right.

Watching the (edited) 2023 Induction Ceremony on ABC…. Bernie Taupin’s digs at Wenner were widely reported, but I hadn’t read about how his comments (celebrating diversity at the ceremony) also featured a passionate defense of “pop”:

“Diversity in genres and styles is exciting and relevant. When it exactly was when the term ‘pop’ became a dirty word, I don’t know. (…) Every artist in this musical institution and every artist inducted on this stage tonight is pop(…).”

Missy was great and her speech was very affecting

Watain

Yeah no that’s never happening.

Looking at that list above, I guess Coheed & Cambria, Lil Wayne and Phoenix look the most likely to get in?

Fully aware that this says more about me than them, but I have literally never heard of Coheed & Cambria.

None of these will get in for a while but here are the ones I think they'll eventually go for:

50 Cent
John Mayer
Jennifer Lopez
Lil Wayne

Coheed & Cambria are an emo/prog band with a huge cult following, basically Tool/NIN for millennials. Not my thing but I’m sure they’ll get voted in at some point.

Trapt is going in

(xpost) I looked them up...They've had a few Top 10 albums, but in all honesty, they seem to have a somewhat narrow, genre-specific fan base. I know I don't keep up, but there's never been an inductee I've never even heard of. If you're right, I have to believe "at some point" means decades from now. I suspect there are a lot of more famous possibilities to get to first.

One example among dozens, probably hundreds (listening to a sale CD I bought last week): TLC. Says here they've been eligible since 2018.

https://futurerocklegends.com/Artist/TLC/

(Their "HOF Indicators" are interesting--most are good, but the only critical barometer looks like the Rolling Stone list, so they'd need a lot more there, I'd say. And they definitely need to add something commercial/sales/chart-based.)

The last 50s-associated artists to be inducted were several backing bands in 2012. The last 60s-associated artists to be inducted were the Zombies in 2019. (Proper induction, not being snuck in a back door.)
Can we assume that the Hall is done with adding acts that are primarily associated with those decades?

Probably, tho there are at least these perpetual snubees to consider (and how many years they've been eligible):

Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio	42
Connie Francis	40
Jan & Dean	38
Dick Dale	36
Peter, Paul & Mary	36
Toots & the Maytals	36
Barry White	35
Cher	33
The Guess Who	33
The Sonics	33
Captain Beefheart	32
Jim Croce	32
Love	32
The Monkees	32
Scott Walker	32
Tommy James & the Shondells	32
Harry Nilsson	31
Can	30
Jethro Tull	30
Silver Apples	30
The Carpenters	29
King Crimson	29
Kool & the Gang	29
Nick Drake	29
Three Dog Night	29
Diana Ross	28
Emerson, Lake & Palmer	28
Sparks	27
Big Star	26
Blue Öyster Cult	26
Neu!	26
The Pointer Sisters	25

I'd imagine The Monkees will get inducted before Jennifer Lopez and Lil Wayne ... but still probably after John Mayer

The Monkees are still the devil to these Rock Hall guys.

Also Silver Apples won't get any acknowledgement in a million years.

Top of the list: the Shangri-Las.

^Yeah, they should be included in that "perpetual snubees" accounting...

surprised Nick Drake never got in

He keeps emailing the hall asking why not

Wonder if Wenner was the main anti-Monkees zealot?

no ones' lol'ed at the idea of Ariel Pink in the RRHOF yet? Will be more likely to get a Presidential Medal of Freedom

Amazed that Dick Dale's not in.

Dionne Motherfuckin' Warwick

Huh, I had not previously known her middle name.

A psychic made her change it to "Motherfuckin'e"

walk on by
don't
fuck

I recorded this from ABC a few days ago and watching parts of it now. Miguel, Adam Levine and Carrie Underwood are singing George Michael's songs. They're not bad at all but makes you realize that George Michael is one of a kind.

I said the same thing! (My wife thought Miguel did a pretty good job…)

Tom Morello speech from Rage Against the Machine was, by far, the best thing of this years show. Inspiring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSf53xiYOg