Olivia Rodrigo - Guts (Sept. 2023)

No cover art yet, but she revealed the tracklist in an IG Reel (accompanied by a very poppy-sounding song):

1. All American Bitch
2. Bad Idea Right?
3. Vampire
4. Lacy
5. Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl
6. Making the Bed
7. Logical
8. Get Him Back
9. Love Is Embarrassing
10. The Grudge
11. Pretty Isn't Pretty
12. Teenage Dream

Oh wait, of course there's cover art... duh:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Olivia_Rodrigo_-_Guts.png

Vampire is a great start, looking very forward to this.

ILX pre-covers?

Nice of her to pen a tribute to Steve Lacy

This album is going to kick ass

I love Vampire, was not totally sold on the first album but v intrigued by this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj9qJsJTsjQ

Every note of the song is somehow a hook; it's pretty incredible

v cool song

I might have lost my mind, and it's probably not intentional, but I'm picking up a slight That Dog vibe here.

I don't know what region of my taste-profile lizard brain is being activated when Rodrigo & Nigro unleash these ruthless hybrids of shiny plastic alt-rock, post-Taylor songwriting, and ultra-hooky chart pop... don't know if it's even possible to untangle the specific musical precedents that are being used as stimulus... I can only marvel at how utterly effective the result is.

my 10-year-old, within 30 seconds of the song starting: "sounds like Brutal"

my 13-year-old, during the noisy guitar solo: "sounds like the music Dad likes"

this is incredible

i like the prechorus and the solo but the chant-iness of most of the song ends up pretty irritating. the verse and chorus are both just single-note-chanting over the same riff over and over and it makes me sick of it before the song's even half over

For me, it’s the opposite… each section and little vocal hook grips me tighter, as the song builds to a crescendo of this-is-so-awesome

That playful, insouciant little guitar figure conjures up some very specific precedent, but I cannot for the life of me place it.

I like this song and I’m going to go ahead and invoke Wet Leg even tho it will probably make everyone mad.

It’s funny/cute how each song strategically has one (1) swear word.

― Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf (CBTL) stan (morrisp), Saturday, May 15, 2021 3:47 AM (two years ago)

She’s upped the number for album two!

I like Pitchfork’s track review… it focuses on the strength of Rodrigo’s performance (and “commitment to the bit”); and makes the point (in a sideways fashion) that while some may arch their eyebrows at an actress deciding to become a pop star, she’s working that skill set artistically.

In fact (to extend my thought in a way that may be tenuous): OR has almost nothing in common w/Ariana Grande as a vocalist, but I've always felt that one of Ariana's underappreciated virtues as a singer is her "expressiveness" – how she puts across the meaning & emotion of a lyric – in a way that may tie into her acting background (...or at least, it certainly can't hurt!). Also, Ariana has long struck me as sort of a "theater kid performing as a pop star," rather than a true-blue pop star by blood (like, say, Lady Gaga). This isn't a dis, btw, but just a dimension of the fandom... e.g., Ariana's live performances can have an (endearingly) corny element that feels tied to her theater background.

(of course, many pop stars try their hands at acting, and some may be good at it… but it’s a smaller set that started their careers that way.)

rodrigo feels even more theatre kid than grande

Love how they've re-worked the rhythm track of "Oh, Pretty Woman," as if the narrative's a quasi-sequel that takes place further down the road from the perspective of the woman.

So Olivia Rodrigo released a post-punk song with a skronky guitar solo/outro and I don't know what I am doing with my life anymore.

I'm getting Subbacultcha vibes from the new one

yes

When I first heard the song, its sonics made me flash on Room on Fire-era Strokes... it's those tight, compressy drums, and the "New Wave" tinge that the Pitchfork piece touches on. Also, the main riff kinda sounds like a half-time variation on "Juicebox" (from the next Strokes album).

my brain goes ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

getting be your own pet (but friendlier) vibes from this one

I'm so into these new songs, and so pleased with this artist right now... great feeling

this song is pretty cool... if you played this for someone who just woke up from a coma they fell into during the summer of 2010 & said it was a new single from one of the biggest pop acts in the world they would be like "wow sleigh bells have really blown up while also managing to streamline their sound towards accessibility"

i'm not sure i can explain this feeling like... logically, but i'm being kept at a distance from these tracks because i detect what i can only describe as a "look what you made me do" kinda energy coursing thru these songs. not in sound, obviously, but in spirit... a kinda frantic seriousness to the songwriting, moments of levity that feel too forced to actually work, the sense that a few too many ideas have been chewed up and spit in my face. it's confrontational pop but i'm not feeling the friction. personally. i get why people are excited about this stuff tho & i think she's getting closer to finding a voice & sound she can call her own. the music she'll make when she's like 25 will prob be pretty sick

I think that's a great assessment/description actually, though the approach somehow does totally "work" for me. It feels like an "earned" flex on their part...

It's interesting you mention "Look What You Made Me Do," because not only do I love that album, but that is the particular Taylor moment that the new song reminded me most of... the little spoken asides, etc.

it's got nothin' on Sky Ferreira a decade ago

What is this riff from? I swear I’ve heard it before. Fun song and j0rdan otm

xp Nigro worked with her too! Do you recommend particular songs? I checked some out in the past, but they didn’t really grab me…

getting be your own pet (but friendlier) vibes from this one

Be Your Own Pet are making friendlier stuff now too (album out next week)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWrI42WweF8

riff is a pretty old fashioned rock move, dating back to, like, "peggy sue." does remind me a little of the pre-chorus of "my best friend's girl" and the main riff from costello's "waiting for the end of the world"

there's some "stacy's mom" in the dna too, but that's basically a cars song, so

YES it’s “Waiting for the end of the world” I was thinking of. It is a ridiculously stock riff tho, about as patentable as salt is as an ingredient

lol I thought that was a Sky Ferreira song at first

“Stacy’s Mom” and that Costello song (neither of which I’m a big fan of) also generally have “Peggy Sue” in the vocals part of their DNA…

I checked out that 2013 Sky Fereirra album (again)... I dunno, the songs don't seem all that strong to me; her voice is somewhat characterless; and the fuzzy, keyboard-heavy production doesn't jibe w/my taste (tho that's subjective). "I Will" is a pretty good song (it's one of the ones Dan N. worked on).

if olivia recorded "i blame myself" in its exact form it would be the biggest song in the world

I still love that album, a big shock at the time

I like the clearer sound on "I Blame Myself," but it sounds like a demo to me, haha! I feel like it needs a big, maxed-out treatment...

it definitely doesn't

You know, another song that "Bad Idea Right?" sent me back to is Avril's "Girlfriend" – due to the chanting – and it reaffirmed my memory that it's an absolutely shitty song, just awful. The contrast couldn't be stronger...

I like "Bad Idea Right?" but it's not post-punk and it doesn't sound a thing like Sleigh Bells or Fountains of Wayne, come on now

i hope she just keeps borrowing costello riffs, sure

it's not post-punk but it is obviously drawing on new wave, power pop, etc.

re: j0rd rodrigo has a similar theatre kid energy to swift when she's overacting and not really selling you on the emotion, like "look what you made me do" yeah. i think that sort of theatre kid exuberance works better for rodrigo on "vampire" than the more rock tracks like this & "good 4 u"

don't get the sleigh bells comparison at all though

i kinda do get the sleigh bells comparison - the chanty vocals on the pre-chorus remind me a little of some of alexis' vocals on songs like rachel. but it's definitely not doing that "clip the fuck out of every track" thing that they did on treats

not a fan of vampire, but this song fucking rocks. that solo!

you guys are talking about elvis costello... that's not my bag. but yeah that kinda pinched ringing guitar riff in the pre-chorus launching into chanty cheerleadery vocals over crunchy guitar riffs in the chorus feels very sleigh bells coded to me. and i'm not some sleigh bells stan or anything, i don't think i've listened to them for real in over 10 years, but i do think about them a lot now in terms of hyperpop's relationship to rock music. clearly "bad idea right" is an attempt at a hit single by an extremely mainstream artist so i don't want to overstate the comparison but i see it as like... to me this song is not very far away from what's on the new 100 gecs album. you could play "bad idea right" and "hollywood baby" back to back and they sound like they're in conversation w/ each other. and personally i can't listen to "hollywood baby", a pocket-sized arena rock anthem w/ blown out guitars, and not hear sleigh bells. by contrast, "good 4 u" is literally just a pure pop radio rock song a la the paramore song it rips off. it's like she switched one lane over on the highway to me

idk this song just sounds like the ‘90s to me. elastica. the on-point that dog. comparison upthread. even though it’s the wrong decade a “nicer” be your own pet also fits this rubric. i am not engaged with this year’s gecs record but i hear v little hyperpop in this, and i think the former examples are way likelier touchstones for what rodrigo and dan nigro are going for

ok i listened to “hollywood baby” and i fucking hate the gecs still oh well

i can see where j0rd is coming from tho, i bet the gecs are also that dog. stans just from this riff

a la the paramore song it rips off

I'm not gonna let you off the hook for continuing to push this point! :D Did you watch that YouTube video?

also obv hyperpop takes certain musical reference points and blows them out into their most obnoxious (description not criticism) forms but i don't think that's what the rodrigo song is doing at all

also this was a point i wanted to make when we were talking about taylor swift but i'm way more convinced by rodrigo's theater kidness than swift's because taylor swift is... very obviously to me not a theater kid but someone who really wants to be one. that's what makes reputation a very camp object and it's one of the reasons i like it so much. i think there's more grace in what rodrigo does even though you can also detect all the overdriven actor-ly edges in her performance

Def Elastica vibes to this new one, which is somewhat ironic, given that Elastica itself was a compendium of myriad recognizable influences.

yeah even though i initially disagreed with it i'm feeling j0rd's hyperpop comparison more and more bc what's happening here is in line with artists who've chewed up and spat out influences like they were bubblegum

What makes Reputation a theater kid's album?

or a camp version thereof?

also this was a point i wanted to make when we were talking about taylor swift but i'm way more convinced by rodrigo's theater kidness than swift's because taylor swift is... very obviously to me not a theater kid but someone who really wants to be one. i think there's more grace in what rodrigo does even though you can also detect all the overdriven actor-ly edges in her performance

oh yeah totally otm

i think comparing sleigh bells to 100 gecs is super obvious but neither has anything much to do with anything rodrigo is doing idk, the "hollywood baby" riff is a pretty different vibe to this one

we're getting into forest for the trees territory here debating the exact extent to which this song sounds like various potential influences, but if we take "good 4 u" as the first version of this artist doing a rock song, i think there's some very obvious differences between that & this in intention & execution both in terms of the songwriting and production. talking about the choruses specifically, there is far more space in the mix on "good 4 u", the individual instruments have more clarity, her vocals sound like one person singing into a mic. comparatively, "bad idea right" has that granola bar effect to the production where everything is smushed together -- the guitars are fuzzy and distorted, you don't get that polished gleam off the riff in the same way you do on "good 4 u." the drums are buried deep into the guitars and barely audible, and there's dozens of vocal tracks stacked on top of each other as if a whole gang of olivias is required to cut through the din. to me they're leaning into the friction between pop songwriting/vocals + distortion/noise/tinniness in a way that instantly reminded me of the overall sleigh bells project. i definitely hear stuff like elastica too in terms of guitar tones, vocals etc -- but the chorus production (mixing especially) on "bad idea right" is intentionally in a completely different place to me. like i said earlier, olivia is a mainstream artist making mainstream music so i don't want to belabor the sleigh bells or 100 gecs comparisons, nor am i making any claims on intent, tho given nigro's background i wouldn't dismiss the sleigh bells stuff out of hand either -- just talking about what my ears are hearing

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/24/arts/music/olivia-rodrigo-guts.html

whoops

“I think I was 9 years old, and I performed at the opening of a grocery store in my town,” Rodrigo remembered in a video call a week after her parking misadventure from her home office in L.A., chatting in a baggy white Morrissey T-shirt from her dad’s collection.

Nepo t-shirt

Can you generate a “gift link” or whatever they call it(?)

The National: "Dad's Morrissey T-Shirt"

Does she mention Sleigh Bells

I got a gift link from my mother. Here's the key graf where she talks about music:

When Rodrigo isn't creating music, she’s inhaling it. She heaped praise on Snail Mail (“‘Valentine’ is one of my favorites”), Joni Mitchell (“I’ll literally get emotional”), Kathleen Hanna (“I love Bikini Kill”), Gwen Stefani (“‘Return of Saturn’ was one of the albums that made me want to make music”), Depeche Mode (“I’m hooked”) and Billy Joel (“He is everything”). She name checked Beyoncé and Sleater-Kinney, Simon & Garfunkel and Sweet. “Oh my God, I listened to ‘Ballroom Blitz’ 10 times today,” she exclaimed. “I have no idea why.”

also notable:

Her openness about her influences is striking considering such frankness has already come with risks: Taylor Swift and Paramore may have been inspirations on “Sour,” but after the album’s runaway success, those inspirations suddenly gained writing credits on two songs. Asked if she had caught Swift’s Eras Tour, Rodrigo was brief: “I haven’t yet,” she said, quickly adding that she’d been busy. “I’m going to Europe this week.”

Long and somewhat tediously written interview feature with a few interesting bits: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/sep/02/olivia-rodrigo-overnight-pop-superstardom-plagiarism-growing-up-in-public

“When you’re worried – like, ‘Oh my God, what’s Pitchfork gonna think?’” she says with strangled mockery – “you see a baby and you’re like, this is love and light right here.”

Is it ok for a baby to see you reading Pitchfork?

Baby’s first word is “7.0”

Second words "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought..."

based in crib, via womb

Reportage (or whatever you call it) on the Guardian piece is focusing on the suggestion that Taylor Swift is the “blood sucker” in “Vampire”; which seems like such a bizarrely forced “fan theory” reading of the lyric. (Then again, OR didn’t actually say “no”…)

There was at least one other part where the Guardian writer asked her about some dumb stan-verse controversy, and it’s like… I don’t think that’s a healthy pond for a music writer to be wading in (or at least drawing muck from).

Long conversation w/P. Bridgers. I have trouble reading these dialogue-style interviews: https://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/olivia-rodrigo-and-phoebe-bridgers-let-it-all-out

"Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl" – damn! what a monster track

"Get Him Back!" is another... the poppy tracks on this album are simply unbelievable

oh man the first track is phenomenal

this is a pretty great pop rock album, a huge step up from sour, which was still solid enough. i was surprised by the cure pastiche of "pretty isn't pretty" but it's very welcome

now to listen to "all-american bitch" another twenty times

“ballad of a homeschooled girl” ROCKS

i love the guitar production on this thing. i predict her next record will be siamese dream for girls

I also thought of the Cure on “Pretty” (guess it’s pretty blatant, lol). The fade-out seemed odd on that track…

siamese dream is already for girls

"All-American Bitch" kills, that's as far i've got so far

I literally couldn't fall asleep last nite with "Get Him Back" blaring in my head (after listening to it twice...)

Looks like there's a deluxe ed. on the way (I hate when they tease it the day the album drops!)

i predict her next record will be siamese dream for girls

honestly "making the bed" gets there for a moment

"ballad of a homeschooled girl" sounds like Everclear to me but trying to figure out which song. i think maybe "wonderful"

maybe its "father of mine". i think its the drums

"ballad" is my jam

Taking Sides 2023:

"Your mom called, I told her, you're fuckin' up big time"

vs.

"I wanna meet his mom / Just to tell her her son sucks"

This is so good. A huge step up as ufo said.

"Can't think of a third line!"

it's impressive that "get him back" is basically 'what if red-era taylor swift tried to rap' and gets away with it

haha i was like which one's the cure track? oh, *that one*

and it really does have a weird fadeout

this is excellent but man it is *stunning* just how weaker her piano ballads are compared to her upbeat distorted guitar-drenched tracks

it's impressive that "get him back" is basically 'what if red-era taylor swift tried to rap' and gets away with it

― ufo, Friday, September 8, 2023 5:42 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

ha yeah, my thought first thought was, "this is like if cake made 'we are never ever getting back together'"

(prob my favorite from the album, tbh)

“The Grudge” is definitely a weaker track… sounds like a second-rate “Driver’s License” redux.

"pretty isn't pretty" just needs to be sped up a bit and it would be a pretty good fake Phoenix track

it's already a pretty good fake cure track, just needs a guitar riff and rapidly strummed acoustic guitar

I was trying to place what “Lacy” reminds me of, and a pal suggested Big Thief (of all things), which may be OTM.

Haven't read the thread yet, but listened to this yesterday and was very impressed. A big step forward.

I'm loving the hell out of the fast songs.

I’m holding off listening to it again until my CD arrives, but I’ve had “Love is Embarrassing” in my head all weekend (…and that was my “least favorite” of the fast songs, which is a pretty relative statement!)

I wish there were fewer piano ballads. You're not going to top Vampire, stop trying!

But yeah, when she rocks, her music goes next-level. Just phenomenal.

Agreed about the piano ballads although Vampire isn’t a ballad !

It does have ballad parts though. But it’s very fast (138bpm) overall.

For instance it’s faster than « bad idea right? ».

A strong album overall, the bangers bang and I like some of the slow ones too. "Logical" and "The Grudge" are the two that feel like padding to me. And "Pretty Isn't Pretty" hasn't totally won me yet, but it might. And while I wouldn't expect to feel a lot personal resonance here, "Ballad of a Homeschooled Girl" hits home.

god, the hook on that one

I revisited Sour over the weekend – and while not all those piano ballads are totally awesome either, I think the narrative behind them (initial, pour-my-heart-out recordings by a teenage girl, albeit a TV star) helps "sell them" to a degree. Now that she's a few years older and more experienced, the novelty of that hook is gone, but I think she's also upped the "maturity level" of the songwriting accordingly... not that that necessarily makes up for deficits in composition.

My CD arrived – it's funny to me that the alternate cover image on the Target edition (which I wanted to avoid, or I would have just bought it there) is also on the back of the regular booklet... so you could achieve the same look just by flipping the booklet around in the jewel case, if you were so inclined.

so apparently each of the four different vinyl versions has a different hidden track on it:

“Girl I’ve Always Been” (purple)
“Obsessed (With Your Ex)” (red and black)
“Scared of My Guitar” (white)
“Stranger” (blue)

Oh wow really? That's cool

Cool idea, but I'm kinda over the constant milking of fans to make them have to buy every color variant.

(obviously no one is making anyone do anything, but i figured this might slow down when even Swift got blowback for cranking out so many different versions of things)

Yeah, I guess my thinking is that if superfans are gonna shell out for that stuff anyway, may as well give them something more than just colors (of course I hope all four songs do just show up on a deluxe version at some point for the rest of us).

I mean, yeah, I'm still waiting on the Midnights deluxe edition with everything...

My 9-year-old daughter is a big fan and we are waiting on the purple vinyl to be delivered.

Tempted to get the cassette tape version just as an in-joke between me and her. She delights in showing her friends my tapes + player when they come over for sleepovers in a "have you ever seen anything like this before?" kind of way.

That's great... I wish we still had a tape player.

I realized that another song "Bad Idea Right?" reminds me of, very specifically, is Elastica's "Car Song" (...and I realize I'm not the first to mention Elastica here).

They're not perfect comparisons but I keep coming back to Sky Ferreira's Night Time, My Time and Kesha's Rainbow as connection points.

oh man I thought of Ferreira this morning too

I think "Logical" is a fine ballad, tho it really sounds like a Taylor Swift joint (albeit with some lines that Taylor wouldn't likely write).

I know this sounds corny or like hyperbole, but the fast songs on this album are pretty much as good as I can possibly imagine songs being (at least in this "genre"). Not only do they roll over all the predecessors we've been discussing – for me, anyway – but like "defeat the final boss"–level songcraft. Something like the bridge in "Get Him Back!" (where it gets quiet and crescendos) is like a shot of pure dopamine for me, it's just ridiculous the effect it has.

Co-sign. And the mix is fabulous.

I did subject my 6-year-old to the end of "Ballad...," and she didn't like it because it's "too much pop" ("It's pop AND rock" – and she considers herself a "rock girl.") This isn't my influence, needless to say...

Yeah I agree that you can hear her influences all over the place, and they're mostly what you'd expect given her age and what she grew up with — Taylor Swift, Lorde, Charli — but especially on this album it feels like a natural synthesis. Her own voice is dominant, literally as a singer and also as a songwriter. And it's interesting she did that interview with Phoebe Bridgers, because I feel like the way a few of the songs build into big cathartic anthems is very Bridgers (e.g. "I Know the End").

They're not perfect comparisons but I keep coming back to Sky Ferreira's Night Time, My Time and Kesha's Rainbow as connection points.

― Indexed, Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:47 AM (one hour ago)bookmarkflaglink

oh man I thought of Ferreira this morning too

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:50 AM (one hour ago)

well dan nigro worked on 4 songs on night time my time including the most poppy ones (you're not the one, i blame myself, love in stereo) so it feels like a relevant line to draw. i do think, in a certain sense, that olivia's arc as an artist (child star -> conventional pop artist -> revivalist of female rockstardom) is kinda playing out the way sky's did, just on a more protracted timeline & w/ the mainstream acceptance that sky never achieved. it's almost like nigro got a test run w/ night time my time, was able to link up w/ an artist who actually has the goods to be an A list superstar and then put his foot on the gas

I didn't know. I have a burned CD-R (lol) of the Ferreira album, therefore no credits. I just assumed Ariel Reichstadt and Justin Raisen handled the co-writing.

I never liked "Since U Been Gone" too much, and I feel like "Love Is Embarrassing" is a successful upgrade of that style (...right down to the sorta perfunctory verses that are just there to provide a basic launching pad for the big chorus-bridge-chorus).

I just assumed Ariel Reichstadt and Justin Raisen handled the co-writing.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 12, 2023 12:19 PM (six minutes ago)

i think i made the same assumption until seeing sky this summer & diving back into that album in a heavy way

Thanks, J0rdan! Didn't know that.

I know this sounds corny or like hyperbole, but the fast songs on this album are pretty much as good as I can possibly imagine songs being (at least in this "genre"). Not only do they roll over all the predecessors we've been discussing – for me, anyway – but like "defeat the final boss"–level songcraft. Something like the bridge in "Get Him Back!" (where it gets quiet and crescendos) is like a shot of pure dopamine for me, it's just ridiculous the effect it has.

― Hawking Teds (morrisp), Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:53 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

^ yea

This article has details on the four bonus tracks. I really wanna hear "Obsessed"...

They're not perfect comparisons but I keep coming back to Sky Ferreira's Night Time, My Time and Kesha's Rainbow as connection points.

― Indexed, Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:47 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

"get him back!" chorus is a very sky ferreira moment, for sure

I can totally relate to a few things she says in this RS interview:

"I listen to new music solely in the car. Nothing beats it.”

One time, she even hit Nigro’s neighbor’s car (the owner was nice about it). “It was just a little scratch,” she says. “But I was crying so bad. You know that feeling when your car hits something? It’s like your stomach just sinks out of your ass.”

Lately, she’s gotten really into Planet Waves and Blood on the Tracks; the latter is her go-to airplane album. “I’ve wanted to write a song (like) ‘If You See Her, Say Hello’ for so long. Legend. He’s so good.”

Fuck yeah! Planet Waves name-check.

Rock critics, she sees them

ITV Artists hanging out with their clones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsJ-BHohXRI

Good choice for the 3rd single... it's gonna be f'n huge.

what does 'I am my fathers daughter so maybe I can fix him' mean. was her dad really into fixing things

"Can't think of a third line!"

― I made it weird, I made it worse (morrisp), Friday, September 8, 2023 2:05 PM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Her sense of humor seems to be one big departure point from Swift, who I adore, but is way more clever than funny.

xp Her father is apparently a family therapist, so maybe it relates to that.

Regarding the ballads being bad I actually like « making the bed »

Yeah Olivia can do humour and a general lightness of touch much better than Taylor - several moments here remind me of stuff like “This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things” but without the DO-YOU-SEE heavy-handedness that Taylor can bring to songs like that.

Needless to say I am loving this album.

she's also way better at rocking out than taylor

I don’t think the ballads are bad, fwiw (after giving the album a proper car-listen)… obv they’re way overshadowed by the rockers. “Making the Bed” is prob the best of them.

!

Olivia Rodrigo is hitting the road behind Guts. Check out her giant run of dates across North America and Europe, billed as the Guts World Tour, below. The Breeders will support in New York and Los Angeles, Remi Wolf joins Rodrigo in Europe, and Chappell Roan and PinkPantheress complete the bill in other North American cities.

OMG, that means maybe I could actually convince my wife to go!

Awww, the ultimate "for the parents" move. Love it.

You gotta respect it

"get him back!" reminds me a little of The Go! Team.

Would love an Olivia Rodrigo cover of John Cale's "Guts."

I assume prices to this will work out to $46787788.

Before fees.

Standard tour tickets are priced between $49.50 and $199.50 (plus taxes and fees), and a portion from all sales will support Rodrigo’s Fund 4 Good.

I registered for the final show of the tour. Here are the next steps in the odyssey:

You'll receive an email on Tuesday, September 19 confirming if you've been selected or waitlisted.

If you are selected to receive a unique access code, the ticket sale will begin on Wednesday, September 20 and will continue while tickets last.

Ugggh. I want to go see one of those Breeders shows but I don't want to go through all this newfangled corporate ticket-buying bullshit.

Standard tour tickets are priced between $49.50 and $199.50 (plus taxes and fees)

Anyway, she's on the case (in a limited but still respectable manner):

Rodrigo will make “a limited number of $20 USD plus taxes and fees (or the local currency equivalent) tickets available at a later date,” according to a press release from Ticketmaster. “Olivia is launching this program to make it as easy and affordable as possible for her fans to make it out to her shows. Silver Star Tickets must be purchased in pairs with a limit of 2 per purchase. These seats will be located next to each other and the seat locations will be revealed the day of show when picked up at the venue box office.”

I guess the rub is in the phrase "Standard tour tickets," which implies there could be add'l tiers of more expensive "special package" tix (or whatever) that could be the only option for some buyers. We'll see how it looks in the unlikely event I have the chance to purchase tickets!

As far as I can figure out, there are often "standard" tickets, then also premium or platinum tickets that are likely subject to the dreaded dynamic pricing. Tix go on sale, cheap tix vanish instantly (surely some purchased by bots and scalpers), prices start increasing in real time on the rest, secondary markets (where allowed, like Illinois) fill up with comically inflated asks, and those prices stay elevated until days/hours before the show.

Would love an Olivia Rodrigo cover of John Cale's "Guts."

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 17:35 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Would love an Olivia Rodrigo cover of Fiona Apple’s “Get Him Back.”

mmm

first listen to the full album today

three thumbs up

The bridges on this album are off-the-charts good.

Lyrically, "Making the Bed" is a good song about a subject that folks sometimes (and understandably) have little patience for – the perils of fame & fortune.

Also, "Pretty Isn't Pretty" deals well with some potentially... well, triggering, topics. ("Stopped eating cake on birthdays" is a good line about something that's difficult to write about.)

I've been an Olivia Rodrigo skeptic, but I just listened to "Get Him Back," and okay, fine, you guys are right, this is great.

I heard the album for the first time when we were driving around yesterday. She relies on a couple of tricks a few too many times for my tastes, but it's mostly a lot of fun, and it's full of color and character, which makes up for whatever I might have felt it was lacking at times.

Any thoughts on "Lacy"? The melody line keeps getting stuck in my head. (I googled and supposedly it's about Sabrina Carpenter, but just like Taylor's songs about people, it's best not to know really.)

My daughter said she thought it might have been about Gracie Adams.

Lyrically it's sort of like a dark version of "Jolene."

The bridge is particularly great, and gets stuck in my head (I don’t personally give a hoot who it’s about…)

Actually, I guess it’s the chorus… I don’t know why I thought it was the bridge!

it's full of color and character

exactly this. every fuckin' twentysomething band out there is either boneless-baby bedroom R&B or fake-indie dad-hat "rock" for Gap stores and Instagram. it's nice to hear something with a goddamn pulse!

She added 10 more tour dates this morning (including two more L.A. shows, bringing the total here to four).

I saw this article shared, and hate-clicked (how could I not?):

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-gen-x-dads-can-appreciate-olivia-rodrigo

It focuses mainly on how she sounds like a lot of '90s music, and boils down to "she speeds through her influences with such dexterity that it almost seems like a sleight of hand" (good enough line, I guess). The guy says he listened "with self-effacing irony"... how very The New Yorker Writer!

lol the subhead (“an artist does not have to live through an era to evoke it”) is very “i started listening to music yesterday”

very weird piece yeah lol

“Vampire,” for instance, starts out sounding like a complainy nu-metal ballad

what?

Rodrigo’s work is more analogous, then, to that of Girl Talk, the d.j. who titillated sorority parties in the early twenty-tens by mashing up artists from all types of genres: Electric Light Orchestra, Lil’ Kim, Simon & Garfunkel.

what? she's not really mashing up genres at all. it's mostly pretty straight-forward references to 80s/90s alt-rock, just well executed.

gen x dad here, i'd like to assure the jury that "sounding like 90s alt rock" is pretty much the last fucking reason i like Olivia Rodrigo

I've seen ppl online say things like, "I listened to a few tracks and then put on Hole instead" – and, y'know, it may not be your cup of tea but I think you're approaching it in the wrong spirit.

Someone wrote his my preteen daughter is obsessed w/OR and he has "no complaints," but "I'm still waiting for her to mature enough that I can start introducing her to Shirley Manson, L7, Poe and Ani DiFranco."

"All-American Bitch" is getting featured on SiriusXM's Alt-Nation channel's "Advanced Placement" new release show.

xpost That's funny. When we were driving around the other day, my daughter asked me what style of music I'd consider the album, and after a second or two I said "well, I guess 'alternative-rock'", and when I was thinking of similar examples, both Hole and (obviously) Elastica came to mind, but I didn't play them for her, since I wasn't sure she'd hear what I hear. She did, however, know who Avril Lavigne was, and said she could make the (pardon the Elastica pun) connection.

gen x dad here, i'd like to assure the jury that "sounding like 90s alt rock" is pretty much the last fucking reason i like Olivia Rodrigo

Just gonna cop to being a gen x dad who definitely finds the 90s-isms contributory to my like of Olivia Rodrigo

fuckin hate girl talk though

Don't think we need to mention Girl Talk further, pretty laughable comparison to OR

Really liked a couple of the songs first time through, we'll see if the others grow

Just gonna cop to being a gen x dad who definitely finds the 90s-isms contributory to my like of Olivia Rodrigo

I didn't read that new yorker article, but the headline alone was enough to remind me that I'm part of an easily identifiable demographic.

It’s been interesting to relisten to stuff like Elastica and Veruca Salt, with an ear for where the similarities are, and where she departs. There are other current artists, like Momma and Blondshell, who get much closer to a “pure” 90s rock sound, of course…

(… but neither of those acts, great as they are, are headlining four nights at the Forum next year)

Also a Gen X dad, but I mean, I’ve been a Taylor Swift fan for 16 years and a Charli XCX and Lorde fan for a decade, this isn’t exactly out of my zone?

I know, these things are written for/at people who mostly don’t listen or pay attention to new music. The assumption is that we all stopped after OK Computer I guess.

Or after Girl Talk, at least…

Can't wait for Olivia's OK Computer

paramore's "this is why" should fill the void until then!

"Pretty Isn't Pretty" is a dead ringer for Alvvays (who are obv drawing from the Cure too). Great song

Love how she changes the verses in that track. First one sounds Cure-ish but the “It’s on…/It’s in…” repetition is absolutely infectious and obviously wholly different.

Here’s a q – what are “the movies that make jokes 'bout senseless cruelty”?

Even the geniuses over at the (“locked”) Genius.com page don’t hazard a guess on that one…

https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/quentin-tarantino-posing.jpg

Oops, meant to be

https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/quentin-tarantino-posing.jpg

Good album, this. Especially like "Pretty Isn't Pretty."

This may be pushing a bit hard to fit an existing affinity – but the loping bass & insistent beat of "Ballad..."'s verses remind me a little of Pavement's "Stereo" (...if Westie were, er, a "harder-hitting" drummer).

If I were writing a pithy blurb for SPIN or someplace, I might wisecrack that the song "realizes the vision of Veruca Salt fronting Pavement, which was teased way back in 1996."

(Note: clearly I should never be hired to write a pithy blurb)

first two tracks kinda fun, 'vampire' neatly emblematic of several terrible tendencies in pop atm, ghastly. more as we get it

okay that's a little harsh on 'bad idea right?' which is more than kinda fun, but it's very notable that the next two tracks haven't built on its energy

oh cool, you're chiming in now

i am here to save you all from yourselves. demand more from your pop

imagine typing that 'night time, my time' is a fuckin test run for this

gee, imagine!

sky ferreira will return to depose this pretender

Same co-writer and similar punk-pop sensibility -- what could possibly serve as a base of comparison?

Don’t worry everyone, imago will come around to Olivia with grandstanding enthusiasm in (checks watch) 2033.

bullseye

I always like when lj gets huffy&puffy about stuff, it’s like a sure fire sign I’m going to like it.

Feels like an ilm tradition, what would we do if imago liked the new pop thing straight out the box?

This is very minor, but I think it's neat how you hear her take a breath before launching into the bridge of "The Grudge" ("Ooohh, do you think I deserved it all?"). That section sounds like one that would normally have been spliced in from another take (maybe in part b/c it's a relatively heterogeneous bridge) – but she actually recorded at least part of the vocal continuous with the preceding verse.

I always like when lj gets huffy&puffy about stuff, it’s like a sure fire sign I’m going to like it.

it's a surefire sign that many people like it, and the coming around later happens when it falls out of favor.

i'm all for a little contrarianism, but making it your whole personality is a tough look.

Pithy blurbs RIP

(Seriously)

Both myself and a fellow Gen-X Dad™ ended up on the "waitlist" for the ticket presale (meaning, I assume, we're assed-out).

Would we have had a better chance signing up for the regular "Registration Onsale"? The world may never know... (it's hella confusing).

Have to agree with imago here. Everything feels very performative and rehearsed, a song like "I Blame Myself" would be unthinkable on this record.

Why do you rate "I Blame Myself" higher than the songs on this record?

very performative and rehearsed

To be fair, she is a theatre kid. My daughter first saw her perform at the Junior Theater Festival in Atlanta in ... January 2020? She did a song from "High School Musical: The Musical: The Series." Maybe it was one of these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHXSpPkKH8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtnBYQUlg5w

I think she said everyone was all over Joshua Bassett and no one cared about Olivia Rodrigo, lol.

It doesn’t sound overly “rehearsed” to me at all though; in fact things like “fuck it, it’s fine” and other such asides sound more spontaneous than most singers could achieve

I also hear genuine “personality” rather than performativity… I mean if it’s done well, how do you tell the difference?

omg that 'fuck it it's fine' is the glibbest most calculated line in the whole song ffs

i would have been a bit concerned if you'd liked this really

i like 'bad idea right?' apart from that line tbf

opening track and ballad of a homeschooled girl too a bit

All songs are rehearsed and performed.

Night Time My Time was done in one take

It sounds like it! (no offense, it’s… fine)

Suddenly spontaneity is a virtue in pop songs though(?) They should be “calculated”… to be awesome! IMO

I've always wondered with hip-hop skits and studio banter ... are those all first/only takes? Like, in "Crazy In Love," did Jay-Z have to do his intro babble more than one time?

I tend to distrust stories about one-take recordings ymmv

Ha yes, I have had that same thought too when listening to, say, Lil Kim's interlude on Ready to Die.

omg that 'fuck it it's fine' is the glibbest most calculated best line in the whole song ffs

the performative-ness is part of the appeal (and she nails the punchline)

if anything grates on me about the lyrics, it's the pretty girl complaining about her looks ("I'm pretty when I cry", "When pretty isn't pretty enough, what do you do?", etc).

fwiw, I don't think "I'm pretty when I cry" is meant to imply she's not pretty at other times (any more than Lana Del Rey meant it that way)? I take it as a riff on a cultural expectation or ideal...

idk for me it helps that "pretty isn't pretty" is about how the struggle to become "pretty" is a total scam that just engineers more self-hatred

xp

She also acknowledged "I know their beauty's not my lack" (about other kids she was mentally comparing herself to), when she sang about her insecurities on the last album.

i particularly distrust the PIP lyrics; they reify and validate the very insecurities they performatively bemoan imo (just as the album as a whole reifies and glamourises the Bad Boy and his Charms). yeah she's in on the scam but she's also promoting it?

as i said, 'perhaps my criticisms of that song are uncharitable in any case as of course even a megastar CAN and often does have insecurities, but it's the feigning of universality (not least in the title) that gets me'

idk i feel like you're bothered by things you've imposed on the text bc you don't inherently don't trust her approach

Yes - what do you mean by "feigning of universality"?

And I bought all the clothes that they told me to buy
I chased some dumb ideal my whole fucking life
And none of it matters, and none of it ends
You just feel like shit over and over again

i read this and don't think wow this is reifying and validating the insecurities it performatively bemoans. the thesis of this song is "it's all just shit," which it is

'pretty isn't pretty' is a fairly universal statement, even if the lyrics are about her experience (which as star is an experience fans will identify with anyway)

there's something defeatist about its insistence and refusal to find transcendence idk. 'you just feel like shit over and over again' is pure doomer philosophy

"it's all just shit but it's inescapable," really (just like gender) xp

like, i don't buy that this is a true reflection of her experience, it feels like she is trying on a doomer pose for effect. if you want to break out from this maybe you wouldn't have 3 creative/art directors and a full makeup, clothing and wardrobe crew credited on your album notes lol

ivy you know more than any of us it IS escapable!

there's something defeatist about its insistence and refusal to find transcendence idk. 'you just feel like shit over and over again' is pure doomer philosophy

― imago, Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:03 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

i mean there's always a glimmer of transcendence in realizing something is so fucked and fake that it doesn't serve you or reflect who you are in any real way

lj i identify as a woman, and this might blow your mind but: that's a gender

as i also said, maybe olivia rodrigo is too metal for me

even identifying as non-binary is a direct response to a (false) gender binary that still "exists" bc it continues to be recreated by society

if you want to break out from this maybe you wouldn't have 3 creative/art directors and a full makeup, clothing and wardrobe crew credited on your album notes lol

once again the problem is you don't take her music seriously

i agree it is a false binary, also i find OR to be very (hetero)normative in her presentation of reality in this album, like yeah gender is hard to escape even if you discover your gender is not the one they called you before, but does gender have to be THIS clunkingly obvious, with boys all Bad yet Hot and girls all Constantly Flinging Themselves Into Trouble like moths, talk about playing the hits eh

i WANT to take her music seriously ofc. maybe everyone's right and in ten years i will lol

also, i'm not talking about the song anymore at this point, but it's possible for "pretty" to be fucked up and fake as a societal standard and for it still to feel nice to feel "pretty"

would you take her more seriously if she didn't wear makeup? i'm pretty sure that's a kind of misogyny

not at all re: your last point

soooo if she only had 2 art directors on her album(?)

it isn't that she wears makeup - almost every woman i know does and i don't judge any of them for it - it's that the team behind her presentation get credits, i.e. they're seen as sufficiently important to get props for their involvement. and yet here she is bemoaning her presentation. like is this fine? is this actually quite a bold bit of self-analysis? idk

i find it hard to buy the performance is what it boils down to. it's very Disney

i mean yeah i guess this does boil down to an authenticity argument and my response to that is "i didn't toil in the poptimism mines for twenty years to have a conversation about whether olivia rodrigo is sufficiently authentic"

haha, well, fair

i was gonna say that the 'faaaamefucker' moment, while one of my least favourite lines on the album, actually feels like the real OR speaking at least

unless playing the role of a bratty indulgent celebrity for self-critical purposes is the game there in which case chapeau olivia you've outsmarted me once again

Was Bryan Ferry being ironic when he credited his hair stylist? I honestly have no idea.

i am sort of interested in contending with this bc lj's wild projections kinda remind me of how i feel about lorde, like lorde's theater kid energy is like poison gas to me and i have to leave the room, whereas rodrigo's is sort of the very fulcrum that makes her music function for me, and i'm like, why is that? and i think it boils down to: lorde has this overdriven desperation behind her music that makes it feel engineered for dramatic air-punches and leg kicks but i just don't find much in the music or in her persona itself that justifies it, it's like someone speaking loudly to imply what they're saying is important but it turns out to not be important at all?

whereas with rodrigo i feel like the theater kid approach perfectly locks into the music she's making, how theatrical it can get in both serious and silly respects, whether she is making a rock song or a pop ballad, that reminds me of emo bands trying out similar theatrics in the late-'00s (iirc these boys were also criticized for overdoing it). i have no desire to take apart this performance to see what's "false" or "real" in it, which are things i have no access to anyway. the story it's telling is sufficiently fun/flippant/felt that i don't care, and i find criticisms along these lines are just ways to delegitimize an artist one's already decided they don't like (which i may be guilty of myself re: lorde, i mean i think i'm right but whatever)

as i also said, maybe olivia rodrigo is too metal for me

^^New Borad Description?

re: it's very disney, i can't really argue against this, i was so grateful to get a pop record in 2023 that reminds me of the first two demi lovato albums

xxp Great, thoughtful post

yes

ftr i much prefer OR to lorde too; lorde feels like she wants to have her cake and eat it too, critiquing the trappings of pop while advantaging herself of them (and not having great tunes either); OR at least doesn't seem to want to express Opinions on Pop (save for 'needs more guitar') and has averaged about 2 bangers per album (give or take)

OR at least doesn't seem to want to express Opinions on Pop

UNLIKE SOME OF US i shamefacedly add lmao

I guess I don't get how y'all define "theater kid"? Is there something in Rodrigo's background I'm missing? Regardless, she sounds like all the best teen/post-teen performers in pop from Lesley Gore and Debbie Gibson to Billie Eilish in her ability to communicate the shittiness and the fun of adolescence.

Yeah it's funny (and appropriate) you mention Gore, b/c I was thinking earlier about how Rodrigo feels like a very direct descendant of, say, the Shangri-Las – who also sang about "bad boys," bad feelings, etc. Like her music could be called, pretty literally, an update of the same thing (or, as Alfred poses it, the most recent entry in an ongoing lineage).

And heightened delivery / theatricality / "performativity" has always been part of that style...

(And when I listen to the Shangri-Las, I don't furrow my brown and wonder if Mary really knew those boys, really had those feelings, etc. Is she let off the hook b/c the band didn't (co-)write their stuff? Does Rodrigo's status as a songwriter activate a certain "rockist" – sorry to use that word – scrutiny for some folks?)

(lol, that's furrow my *brow*... feel like I invented a weird new idiom there)

For me it's more specifically "Disney kid" than "theater kid" — what she shares with other Disney alum is that if/when they hit in a post-Disney way, they bring with them an arsenal of abilities. They can sing AND dance AND act, to varying degrees but at least they have actual formal/professional training. "Theater kid" definitely carries some of that connotation, knowing how to put on a show, having a default to certain kinds of dramatic modes. But Disney kids are theater kids who are already used to getting paid for this stuff. That professionalism may be what the "rehearsed" complaint was about above, I don't know, but I don't think it's a negative. I don't mind listening to professionals.

In fact, she's a Disney kid who played a theater kid:
https://hsmtmts.fandom.com/wiki/Nini_Salazar-Roberts

If you didn’t know about that, though, would some essence of it come through in her recordings/performances? I posited way above that being an actor may help with “line delivery”… but I don’t know that I would have assumed she’s an actor without being aware of her backstory.

I forgot about the Disney background. I mean.....does it matter? Or how is this pejorative? When we discuss the Method in my film class (like we did, uh, today), I ask the students if it matters that we learned Christian Bale gained 400 lbs or whatever to play Cheney -- maybe, maybe not? It's speculation. I get how Rodrigo might set LJ's teeth on edge or comes off fake -- Alicia Keys does that to me -- but this 'theater kid' line is a red herring.

i liked that she mentioned sleater-kinney as an influence because the yelps towards the end of 'love is embarrassing' sound very sleater-kinney to me

Oh I don't think it should be pejorative, I think all that experience probably just makes her a technically better singer and performer. For some people I guess it's possible that technique gets in the way of "rawness" or something, but w/e. The flipside obviously is that there are a lot of "Disney kids" and not many who can write songs like she does, it's not like she's a pop star because she was a Disney kid — it's just that being a Disney kid prepared her for pop stardom better than your average 17-year-old.

I think the "theater kid" criticism tends to translate as "stage managed" or "scripted" or something, but I don't get that vibe from Olivia Rodrigo. Like, Justin Timberlake became famous as part of a machine, and his first solo album was considered something of a break from that. That is, more "authentic," less theater kid and more *artist*. The same could be said I guess about someone like Miley Cyrus, who grew into (what some presume to be) her true self rather than continuing as a gear turning in the Disney wheel. But even though she is by any definition a theater kid - that is, a child actor/performer from Disney's teen stable - I don't get that sense from Rodrigo's music. That's why I suggested upthread that its character and color distinguishes it from a lot of pop. The attitude and humor and whatnot seems authentically her, not some hitmaker's idea of what she should sound like, and indeed it's noteworthy and/or conspicuous for any pop star these days to release an album with only two credited writers, one of whom is the artist herself. I guess Adele is like that. And of course Taylor Swift. Interesting (maybe?) that those are, along with Rodrigo, two of the most successful artists of the last several years.

They did bring in a third writer on two of the tracks ("Logical" and "Pretty Isn't Pretty")... I'd be interested to know how that came about, like what was missing that needed an extra push on those songs (or however it worked out in the process).

They're both ringers, too. But had nothing to do with the singles (so far) which is what ringers are often brought in for.

Good point; isn't that something!

a lot of the time when people say "theater kid energy" they mean "i can sense the artifice of performance and it is making me uncomfortable." or at least that's what i mean when i use it lol.

The RS interview said her mom used to play her Babes in Toyland records, so I am guessing her upbringing wasn’t exactly standard theater kid stuff.

I think a lot of these debates, whether explicitly invoking notions of fakeness versus realness, or implicitly doing so by references to things like "theater kid energy", serve to partly-obscure a big component of what I think people do actually tend to react to (or otherwise just accept), being whether they feel that the music is performing to type, adhering to a set of rules and guidelines or otherwise scribbling over the margins and defacing/effacing them.

I suspect that imago's attempt to construct a dichotomy between Olivia and Sky is premised on this: a sense that one (Olivia) is carefully hitting a series of identified targets versus the other (Sky) engaged in a kind of pop-music pinata game. Or in other words (in this reading), Olivia is more generic, not (only) in the sense of being more fungible vis a vis other genre-equivalent product, but in the sense of adhering more to certain rules of the particular style(s).

Like, the notion of the "theater kid" is not just about ostentatious over-performance and not just about acting, but also imports the implication of someone having studied a particular form and attempting to true-to-libretto reproduction, rather than fumbling along and making it up as they go along.

These dichotomies are not particularly trustworthy from my perspective, in part for the same reasons as authenticity debates, but also because the "rules" of genre look firmer and more restrictive the further you stand back from them and the less you have engaged with them. The closer you are to them, the less they seem like rules in the restrictive sense and more like structures that allow for the generation of meaning and tension, in much the same way that meaning and tension are generated in a sports game.

Adopting the theater analogy, a person with only a passing familiarity with musicals might query the logic of seeing multiple different stagings of the same Sondheim play, given that in a certain sense "they're all the same", whereas the enthusiast is invested in perceiving all the ways in which particular direction, acting, stage choices etc subtly evolve the meaning and effect of the work (and those two people might have directly inverted relationships with, I dunno, watching tennis).

To the above Sondheim-novice, a "bold" re-imagining of a Sondheim play with a new script and only a passing resemblance to the original work might hold much more interest and promise than another more faithful re-staging of the work. But the enthusiast might take the opposite view, considering the casual effacement of the original to be the easier option in the generation of perceived novelty, as compared to the faithful boring of hard boards required to generate new meaning and resonance from the re-performance of a familiar work.

Which viewer is right? Neither necessarily, of course. Without more content, the above judgments are really more about each viewer and their relationship to the contexts in which the above texts appear, rather than about the texts themselves. At minimum, the critic would need to come face to face to with their relationship to the context first, before they can go on to say anything insightful about how the specific text operates within that context.

Or in other words, I think a lot of time debates around authenticity and artifice are, at their core, an attempt to elevate a failure or refusal to perceive a certain kind of nuance to the level of some sort of ethical-aesthetic noble stand.

^^^ good post

I would think Olvia's distinctiveness would be apparent to a listener with even only a passing familiarity with current pop, though. Not many like her around!

(Beyond the fact that Nigro worked on a few tracks – which may be reason enough, I suppose – I don't really get the comparison w/Ferreira's debut.)

call it a prequel to NTMT, in which the star realizes early that life can suck before it gets much, much worse.

I was trying to place what “Lacy” reminds me of, and a pal suggested Big Thief (of all things), which may be OTM.

came here to say this :D

Rite? Like a U.F.O.F.-era track...

UFOF is the only Big Thief i really know and "Lacy" totally reminds me of it

i don't have any conclusions to make here but yeah every time it starts

"Love is Embarrassing" is the overlooked song here, imo. Love the little hiccup-y vocal thing she does at 1:45 and later.

One of my favorites.

wish i had more technical musical chops - what's that little beat change in the beat half-way through vampire? it sounds like a musical.

I've been in a somewhat emo mood this week (due to work/health issues), and the ballads are sounding really good today...

A few nice live takes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txMB2nWixHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXbaHNN20VM

thx for posting, LOVED both of those, hope you're feeling better morrisp!

also agree the ballads hit the spot when am in the proper frame of mind. went back to the album after not listening for a couple weeks and am still v smitten with it

xp Aw, thanks! :)

Those live clips are great.
If anything, the album tamps down her disney kid / theater kid vibes, which definitely re-assert themselves in a live setting.
But the production also maybe tamps down her voice, which sounds better live imo.

I have been MIA but do want to say this album rules, at first I thought it was too braty maybe but I'm over that.

Obsessed with “get him back!” Her sense of humor keeps getting better and it’s absurdly catchy.

"i wanna meet his mom/and tell her her son sucks" made me properly lol the first time i heard it

same lol
i also love the chord progression on the "i want sweet revenge/i want him again" part so much

i also laughed at "fuck it it's fine"

i think what i meant is the melody not the chord progression but whatever

I still find the conceit of the light sarcasm / faux self-delusion in "Bad Idea Right?" to be genuinely funny, each time I listen... "Can't two people reconnect?"

Totally, the double entendre of "get him back" is amusing and clever and epitomized in my favorite melodic moment of the song -- I want sweet revenge/I want him agaaa-aain

It's just total perfection *even if* it sounds like Beck

That double-entendre (which took me 4 or 5 listens to "get"... I'm not too quick) feels like it would be too "clever" or on-the-nose in other hands... but it totally works in these hands!

lol I'm just realizing it now even after looking up the lyrics a couple weeks ago. Suffice to say I'm also not very quick

The double entendre took me a few listens too. One of my housemates managed to get it without even hearing the song, though - heard the title and asked if it was about getting back with your boyfriend or about revenge. I was glad I'd at least figured it out in time to say "Both!"

That double-entendre (which took me 4 or 5 listens to "get"... I'm not too quick) feels like it would be too "clever" or on-the-nose in other hands... but it totally works in these hands!

― Chavez video on MTV, July 1995 (morrisp), Friday, 6 October 2023 00:10 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

This was kind of the basis of my joke upthread about Olivia covering Fiona Apple's "Get Him Back", which rides the same double entendre much more explicitly.

On a similar tip, there are various other "Bad Idea" songs working a similar theme as OR's (one of which is by Taylor-endorsed act Girl in Red)... but OR figured out how to crack the code, so to speak.

(I’m exempting track 9 of thank u, next from this analysis, on the common-law basis referred to as Arianator Privilege…)

(whoops, make that track 6… guess I need a little bit of time away)

The youth are aboard

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyChmjILt9qsoIPVQSQ_CIQ0UHyZz08L1hh2DE0/

(Sleezsisters being former ILXor Ben Boyer...unless you're still here and I missed it?)

Somewhat incredibly, I landed a pair of balcony tix to this charity event in downtown L.A. tmrrw(!)

I happened to see it posted in her IG Stories this morning, around 30 mins. before tickets went on sale... but even after sitting in the "waiting room" (on several devices), there were no tix available after 10am rolled around and it was my turn to buy. I tried refreshing for a while, then gave up... randomly tried again, 20 mins. later... and it worked! (Maybe it helped that it's not Ticketmaster/LiveNation?)

I'm super pumped!! Sounds like the show will be recorded and aired on YouTube, for all you poor saps, er, wise folks who conserved your decade's worth of "Luck points" for something more important.

The video is here, for anyone who cares to watch it (the first comment has timestamps for the songs, if you prefer to skip Olivia & Dan's commentary & songwriting/production anecdotes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wpdS1II5ZQ

imagine being that dude's wife and sending him off to spend 40+ hours a week writing love/breakup songs with her. strong woman!

Yeah, my (own) wife thought all those mentions of his wife & baby were... a little odd (if interpreted a certain way). I'm sure it's all cool tho...

(It is inherently a kind of a weird dynamic, I admit)

I'm sure it's all cool and they are totally professional co-workers, etc. Obviously don't want to accuse them of anything. But yeah.

They mentioned going on tour, too! Like I said, big ups to him and his wife - truly - for (presumably) navigating all of that together.

As they talked about how the bridge melody of one song became the chorus melody (or whatever), and how they argued for hours about a few notes in a verse melody, I was like... this is exactly the kind of sh!t that I + folks on ILM will love, and no one else will GAF about(!)

(My wife even elbowed me and said, "You love bridges")

haha

bridges rule!

maybe i should go write bridges with Olivia Rodrigo. *texts wife with this idea*

"Hi babe, I'm in SLC, recording that new song with Olivia in a 'weird Airbnb'... it's totally freezing in here, we have to run the heater, isn't that funny? I'm worried we'll hear it humming underneath her vocal... but her performance is so emotional, we just gotta use this take. Hmm? No, the vibe's not weird at all, why would you ask that?"

BBC dropped a new clip from that live session at Hollywood Forever (it's an older song, but a nice rendition):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJEPvoLCBg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OofRYPBwalI

Great performance (just the right amount of "theater kid" energy)!

This was so cute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mhKYBWnZGA

New soundtrack song (I wondered if it would have different songwriter(s), but nope, it's a Rodrigo/Nigro joint):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXjA-ahmi1A

I guess she’s also performing w/Sheryl Crow at the R&RHOF induction on Friday.

First artist in Grammy history to be up for Best Pop Vocal Album and Best Rock Song in the same year?

funny that she is up against the Rolling Stones for the latter

These SNL performances that are also live real time music videos freak me out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1jB2CTYm4s

Stripped down "Vampire"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1_7JaHx_-A

Might as well throw this in too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRsBTw_1-iE

She seemed maybe a little nervous doing “Vampire”? Like she didn’t seem to quite hit the chorus right

Maybe because she was having to remember to censor herself?

Just noticed they changed the cover image for Tiny Ass Bag from Adam Driver to Rodrigo, Ego, and that other guy.

Wondering too what the reasoning was by cutting 'goddamn' out of "Vampire", but letting it stay in "AAB" (other than it's not as prominently spotlighted in the latter).

To rabbit-hole even further, the cc subtitle in “AAB” only said “damn”

Was Tiny Ass Bag of parody of something specific? Are those recurring characters, with their catchphrase? I didn’t get why Adam Driver was standing in a different space etc.

no to any of those questions. I think having him stand over there was to underline that he was just some dude named Kevin and not as big a fashonista as the other two. The blocking didn't really work. I still found that sketch really funny. I'm enjoying this season, cast is really strong.

I have decided I really don't get Olivia Rodrigo though.

It's a reoccurring trope to do these specific parodies of low-budget commercials for fashion shops or companies.

Here's one from a few years ago with J.Lo & Melissa Villasenor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQE-6XV3v3M

To build on what akm said, I think part of the joke is the implication Driver's character is a struggling actor they found on craigslist or a grip or somebody promoted to talent when the real actor didn't show up.

I have decided I really don't get Olivia Rodrigo though.

I don’t think last night’s performances were the best showcase of her talent… but it’s rare that I’ve ever been really happy with an SNL performance by a band or artist I’m into.

the sound mix on SNL live performances has been garbage for years

staging has gotten better though

She handled the “AAB” staging well (and sounded good doing it), but I don’t get why they opt to present a song that way (like it’s the VMAs).

They've been doing that 'Live Music Video' staging for a few years now. Not exactly sure when they started, but seems like it really locked in with this Billie Eilish performance in the season 45 premiere in 2019:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn1Uwsg3eRQ

I missed that Billie performance at the time, but I did catch this Camilla Cabello performance live a couple weeks later and was blown away, thinking "OK, the ante has been raised."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWLorxdRxRg-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmh3iruf4RA

She really sounded to me like she couldn’t really sing her material that well in the SNL performances, which is interesting because I remember being much more impressed with her previous SNL outing

she lisped a lot in 'vampire', is that normal? I didn't notice it in the other song. It was odd. maybe it was the sound mix.

or maybe i wasn't a lisp, it was 'sh' (I guess 'unvoiced frictive'?) on the sibilants

Having seen her perform live (at that thing recorded for YouTube, discussed above), I promise that SNL wasn't a great representation...

akm, I noticed that "sh" emphasis too!

My uncharitable take was that she sounded like Taylor Swift trying to impersonate Billie Eilish

She sounds much better (IMO) on that new Tiny Desk Concert which ivy linked to (watching it now!)

She shoulda performed "Vampire" like that on SNL (with the band around her), damn!

I thought AAB performance was fun and she sounded good. On Vampire she seemed maybe nervous and also maybe like she couldn't hear herself that well?

Seems like a compromise SNL throws at artists who get one of those performance set pieces is their other performance is a fairly stripped-down thing. At least that was the case with Rodrigo, and those Eilish & Cabello appearances I posted upthread. I imagine part of it is that (if they're not also hosting) the musical guest usually doesn't show up until Friday or maybe Thursday of the shoot week.

There's a bts video for Eilish that shows the huge amount of work that goes into pulling those things off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an76NRrV-zQ

AAB gets a pseudo-live vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB0qc0-Bzgs

as opposed to the pseudo-vid live on snl

hope "ballad of a homeschooled girl" gets performed in this vevo series

Me too – that was terrific (the best I’ve heard “AAB” sound), and I look forward to more of these. The Vevo videos for the first album were great (particularly the “Favorite Crime” clip on the rooftop).

New one :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ygEJu4SHs

"Vampire" w/strings on Colbert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f274tLL9SuI

^That should have been her SNL performance, IMO (notwithstanding her shift into odd enunciation at the end – “I yooshed to think I wazsh shmart…”).

Meanwhile, I’m obsessed with that Vevo “Get Him Back” clip… what a sound!

Vevo #3... this one sounds a lot like the album version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr_j3sT-bc8

...and looks like that's it for the Vevo clips (the longform video is below). I'm surprised they haven't unleashed "Homeschooled Girl" in any other context but the album (AFAIK). Maybe they're "saving" it for next year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPmDv2obvjA

Those are enjoyable, the VEVO clips.

What is the purpose of these ... just to create more content, especially ahead of the Christmas buying season or something? Or is there some other reason to make these that I'm missing?

It's a cool idea if you have the budget, which she obviously does.

They did ’em for the last album too, I assume it’s just another avenue of promotion (or just a treat for the fans, I dunno if they “drive sales”)?

The four bonus tracks are finally on YT… this is an interesting one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVGBBnEvg4

(^ it reminds me a little of those early Lizzie Grant demos…)

“Obsessed,” the upbeat track, is fairly mid (…and the lyrics include “b*tthurt,” a word I loathe). The other two songs are fine

the more i listen to these albums, the more convinced i am that she’s never been in love before. and that’s okay!

Guts Deluxe out Friday… new versions of the vinyl bonus tracks, plus a new song (“So American”).

The new song has a cool hook in the verse, but the chorus ain’t doing it for me.

I preferred the vinyl (“demo”?) version of “Girl I’ve Always Been.” Still really dislike “Obsessed.”