thread of the inescapable Espresso - Sabrina Carpenter

"me espresso" sounds like a lyric written by a swedish pop music genius who doesn't speak fluent english and thats why its the song of summer

— rebecca jennings (@rebexxxxa) April 24, 2024

i didn't think much of it when i first streamed the video. i encountered it on radio later and admittedly it did sound good there, but honestly anything that isn't several months-to-years old is a pleasant surprise on a top 40 station these days

i'm not entirely convinced by sabrina carpenter yet generally. for now i prefer her last single "feather"

It reminds me of Calvin Harris/Pharrell/Katy Perry's 'Feels' somehow but it's better than that.

it's no "stars are blind", feels very post-"say so". it's about as good as a song in this sort of mode can be but that's just 'solid'

me espresso" sounds like a lyric written by a swedish pop music genius who doesn't speak fluent english and thats why its the song of summer
— rebecca jennings (@rebexxxxa) April 24, 2024

it’s driving me crazy that this only quotes the last two words of the full lyric, which is “that’s that me espresso.” which is even more charmingly ESL imo

I prefer it to the other artists’ songs named above, but (like dyl) I’d rate “Feather” higher. Nice groove in both tracks…

the melody of this is really basic but in a good way, it's really easy to sing along to this immediately. Carpenter herself seems to be blandly blank but the charm of this is all those weird lyrics which don't feel focus-grouped for TikTok unlike a lot of other pop idiosyncracies of late

(I mean, they absolutely were designed to be viral like all pop in 2024 is, they just don't feel so obvious to my ears)

nashwan otm, this does feel very funk wav bounce. but carpenter has a lot of personality, and it's a very solid melody.

Pitchfork pays tribute: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/sabrina-carpenter-espresso/

there is a real dearth of good-quality, straight-ahead pop bangers on the charts right now so this will do nicely

can’t decide if it’s more fun to think about as the more conventional, “that’s that me: espresso” or the talk-like-a-pirate version: “that’s that, me espresso”

I’ll have to play this a second time. The first time, I thought “this is OK, but why is anyone rhapsodic about it?”

I hadn’t really thought about it much until now but like“That’s that me, espresso” in my mind is part extra syllable fudge to make the lyrics scan, and a combination of two daft nut cromulent for pop song phrases “That’s me! espresso” (I’m like espresso, you can’t sleep) and like…” that’s that me” like “oh well, that’s that, you know what I’m like” but I prefer your interpretation.

Daft but cromulent

this just seems like such a mediocre "Say So" rehash! ugh!!

this time without Dr. Luke tho

Yeah this song is automatically way better because Dr Luke isn't involved.

really boring i thought; wish it had a chorus

i hate dr. luke too but that's just not true xp

fuck Doja Cat too while we're here

Is this really the only Sabrina Carpenter thread? I thought ILX’s pop-loving denizens would be all over her. I haven’t heard her early stuff yet, but her latest album Emails I Can’t Send is chock full of club bangers. “Read Your Mind” is every bit as good as “Feather” and “Espresso”!

btw, what is up with record companies releasing sped-up versions of hit singles as b-sides? They did that with “Feather” and “Espresso”. Like, is that a thing in pop nowadays? Do people really want to hear that? I want some extended dance mixes, dammit!

the sped-up version thing is a TikTok phenomenon aiui

Dan Charnas's piece this week that uses this as a hook to do a look back was I thought very good, though a few folks haven't felt she actually sounds like this:

https://slate.com/culture/2024/06/sabrina-carpenter-espresso-song-summer-boogie-post-disco.html

It's a great read

Feel like a millions years behind the zetigeist on this one and only caught up after seeing that article shared around, and first impressions are very positive. If it’s not the sound of the summer it’s at the very least the sound that’s going round and round my head tonight as I struggle to get to sleep (due to unrelated reasons).

I like the song and that essay, I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay, but whatever. "Feather" is good too, I guess I should listen to the album.

If “Espresso” sounds like boogie music I need to listen to more boogie music.

its not as good. as good boogie music.

"I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay, but whatever."

it was a good excuse to talk about old music the author likes though. and its good music to give attention to. its totally internet-hip stuff though. club-hip. collector-hip. so, not forgotten by a long shot no matter what you call it. and that's the thing. there are 80s tracks that you could call electro, disco, post-disco, funk, boogie, dance, club, AND r&b. call it what you like. just don't call me late for dinner!

Unfortunately her just-released new single “Please Please Please” (not a James Brown cover) is a bit “mid”, as the kids say. But it was cute seeing her with her real-life boyfriend in the video.

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it. The melodic range feels too limited, maybe.

I like the song and that essay, I'm not sure the song is quite the ideal vehicle for the essay

That's my only cavil. "Espresso" does not sound like early '80s R&B.

I also thought mapping Anderson .Paak's "Am I Wrong" over D Train was maybe a little bit of a stretch, but whatever it takes to introduce new listeners to boogie, all for it

ha, I did the same.

For some reason my brain keeps associating Espresso more with 90s stuff like Return of the Mack, Fastlove, and several singles from Canadian boyband SoulDecision (like Faded and Oooh It's Kinda Crazy) than 80s Boogie.

for me it's peak Aeroplane/Tensnake nu-disco era nostalgia

if you listen to any of the remixes of espresso you will note that nobody picked up on any early 80s vibe and they just do boring house stuff to it.

My first thought about “Espresso” was that maybe it means CRJ can have another hit. It feels somewhat in her wheelhouse to me, which also obv derives significantly from ‘80s pop.

Or Magdalena Bay, even more.

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it.

I agree with this... for a big hit, it is certainly not an "earworm" (at least for me).

truly, a slate editor was so desperate, or is so happy that Charnas is writing for them, that they did not say to him "yeah, I know you wanna make this point, but this song does not support your thesis" as they should have.

I have heard it a bunch of times, but it hasn't lodged itself into my consciousness…the way, for instance, "Million Dollar baby" has.

I've completely forgotten how it goes too! I just get 'Feels' in my head instead plus a couple of other things, but probably just one conscious choice to hear it will make it stick.

if you listen to any of the remixes of espresso you will note that nobody picked up on any early 80s vibe and they just do boring house stuff to it

I think all commissioned remixes of pop songs are contractually bound to be extremely unadventurous these days

Ha. Let me join the group here who do not think "Espresso" is rooted in the music Charnas discusses

i would like "espresso" way more if it reminded me even remotely of evelyn king's "i'm in love" like wtf

i must be doing something wrong because for a song that is constantly being proclaimed 'inescapable' i'm finding it... remarkably easy to escape? i hear these proclamations more often than the song. granted pop music culture is weak rn and there's rarely anything i would use that word for nowadays

that piece was an interesting read but would agree with others' already stated misgivings about it. other nitpicks: i know he wanted to go into the reggie lucas narrative but "never knew love like this" is quite a poor example of a song that 'never knew love on ... most pop stations' given that it was actually bigger on the pop charts (including r&r's airplay-only chart!) than it was on the r&b charts! also i really wish pieces like this would stop talking about the early 80s like a now-unthinkably culturally segregated bygone era when in fact several parts of the last decade were easily just as bad if not even worse in that regard. nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folks. (incidentally, "never knew love like this before" is precisely one of these adult contemporary crossovers -- it was riding high on that chart about a month before performing similarly on the pop chart.) i don't say all this to suggest that things were not bad back then -- they were -- but instead to point out that, well, crossover from the adult contemporary side of things is almost impossible for black artists now and has been for quite some time! meanwhile crossover from black radio itself remains nearly negligible aside from your jack harlows + there are basically three black artists who are 'native' to the top 40/'mainstream' ecosystem (lil nas x/lizzo/doja cat), all of whom will be on shaky ground w/ programmers in an instant if they fail to deliver hits (two of them are arguably there already), unlike artists like dua lipa and taylor swift who can pump out straight duds (in the former's case) or superstar indulgences (in the latter's) consistently and still coast directly into medium rotation at minimum

and yes like come on this song/artist is not worthy of this connection to great black art at all. ffs this woman makes 'big black cock' jokes during live performances of her ariana grande-imitating first payola'd semi-hit, idk if she's just kinda dumb-slash-racist or if she's angling for a thinkpiece outrage cycle like it's still 2014

btw, what is up with record companies releasing sped-up versions of hit singles as b-sides? They did that with “Feather” and “Espresso”. Like, is that a thing in pop nowadays? Do people really want to hear that? I want some extended dance mixes, dammit!

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:09 AM (yesterday)

the sped-up version thing is a TikTok phenomenon aiui

― rob, Thursday, June 6, 2024 8:11 AM (yesterday)

hardly anyone actually wants to hear these. tiktok is the excuse for their existence, but it's really aimed at too-online stans who clamor for more 'versions' to be released so they can purchase more files they won't listen to in hopes that the song will chart higher. this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift. the same driving force is behind the release of endless 'variants' of physical albums, all containing one unique bonus track and an 'alternate cover' or some other such garbage. a good number of these are being purchased by ppl who lack the equipment to even play them but snatch them up anyway out of compulsion to collect or a misplaced desire to 'support my favorite artist uwu'. it's predatory and beyond disgusting. in korea a lot of these end up clogging up donation centers, and in some cases so many end up in those locations that they then end up in landfills. i suspect the same will happen here too before long, tho there are some signs of backlash. we luv capitalism!

but yes anyway those 'versions' are just there so stans chomping at the bit to buy more copies of the same digital files they won't be listening to through the files themselves can do so. the sped up versions aren't *really* meant to be seeding tiktok since it is trivially easy for sped up/slowed down versions of hits to end up as sounds on tiktok regardless of whether they're officially released. many of the songs that become hits in part due to such tiktok sounds only end up having these versions released after the fact or not at all. the artists pre-emptively releasing these versions are 100% doing it for the paypig stans

nearly always overlooked in these retrospectives is the fact that actually a non-negligible number of black artists were still crossing over during this time -- they were just adult contemporary singers, whose hits are now generally dismissed as irrelevant pablum or fatally compromised for mass acceptance among white folk

Look no further than Charnas' own piece. He mentions James Ingram's hits from The Dude. Add Peabo Bryson and Bill Withers-Grover Washington, Jr. and Jeffrey Osborne and -- well, you know already.

any similarity this song might have to that era of roller boogie (or whatever) is totally neutralized by carpenter’s narcotic singing.

it reminds me more of the chiller side of bloghouse than anything charnas cites in the article. something like air france, but warmed over for mass consumption

it makes me think of bloghouse which was like, an approximation of filter house/french touch, which was a flip of chicago flipping disco and boogie records

I think the likely path comes from through that

but people have been doing that for years now ... to me the sabrina record sounds downstream from stuff like, idk, this era of max martin working with ali payami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqtUuHFAtzg

xp with voodoo chilli, yes, exactly, bloghouse

ngl I like the robin thicke song more, lol

this was basically imported from kpop fandom and is now used routinely for artists with highly engaged online fandoms -- artists like nicki minaj, grande, swift.

Just a point of order, Grande doesn't do this(?) There were a few "Yes, And?" remixes, but remixes are nothing new...

i like "espresso" but i wish it reminded me of air france lol

I like "Espresso" fine but find it weirdly forgettable. As in, I literally have trouble remembering how it goes when I'm not listening to it

yes! this is weird isn't it? I've heard this song like 25 times and I could not tell you what the melody is. also I'm bothered immensely by the grammatical "that's that me" lyric. what?

this thing is probably some kind of brainwashing weapon

"the grammatically incoherent "that's that me" lyric" I meant.

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

Took me a while to parse it, but once it clicked it clicked.

I’ve been listening to a fan extended edit, maybe it’s a tiny bit long? Or maybe it’s still too short…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrD1sI_5NyU

Do people really find the phrase “that’s that ‘me’ espresso” incoherent? It makes perfect sense to me.

I get it now, written out like that

i prefer my interpretation

the talk-like-a-pirate version: “that’s that, me espresso”

― the defenestration of prog (voodoo chili), Tuesday, April 30, 2024 6:17 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's the second 'that' that (ha) makes no sense

or, at best, is incredibly awkward and difficult to parse

i was wondering why the production of her new one sounds so bad and hollow and ofc it's done by jack antonoff ;_;

I agree with the grammarian cited here: https://www.them.us/story/sabrina-carpenter-espresso-lyrics-analysis-meaning-explained

As Barg hears the chorus, “me” is the antecedent, and “espresso” is its appositive, as in “It’s-a me, Mario.” Under that interpretation, Carpenter isn’t claiming that some elixir known as “me espresso” is keeping her “honeybee” up at night, she’s saying that “me,” a person who could be known or described as “espresso,” is preventing the hapless horndog from getting any sleep. It’s a subtle but important distinction, and one that blows the case wide open.

Reminiscent of the controversy around “that demon life” from the Rolling Stones’ “Sway”

Hmm... I guess I disagree with the grammarian, this seems right to me:

My longtime personal theory has been that Carpenter is using “me espresso” as a purposely silly noun phrase, in which the pronoun “me” is repurposed as an adjective, as in, “You can’t sleep, and that’s because of a certain quality I possess called ‘me espresso.’” (This would not be totally unprecedented: my favorite spin instructor goes by the handle “Brittany Espresso,” and she’ll sometimes say things like, “Have another shot of Brittany espresso” in a motivational capacity during especially grueling climbs.)

Yeah I agree, contra the grammarian, that it’s a noun phrase. It’s analogous to “a case of you” from the Joni Mitchell song of that name.

(I think it would be very strange to refer to yourself as “that me”; as opposed to referring to a quality you possess as “that (me) espresso”)

xp this is such a bad explanation, is it a bit from them??

This is a pop song and we're worrying about grammar?

in this ever-changing ILM thread in which we post in?

I think the context for "that's that me" is like "that's that girl" combined with cute internet speak a la "it me!" Hence "that's that me." She could have just said something like, "yeah that's me, espresso" but it wouldn't be as goofy or memorable and we wouldn't be talking about it.

Alfred, we cannot forget from where it is that we come from

The fact that it's called "Espresso" and not "Me Espresso" makes me think that the grammarian's reading is more likely.

What will ultimately settle this will be the annoying adoption of "that's that me" as a catchphrase.

And it will seem unbelievable to us that it started here; like the thing going around now about Alanis Morissette supposedly inventing “friends with benefits.”

Gross, if true

lol I'd never thought about that but I guess it tracks. Hard to imagine she's the first one to say it, but the internet says there are no prior documented uses.

I don't know to what extent Hal Leonard-published sheet music can be counted on for an official representation of a song's lyrics, but fwiw:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_2344737beMQal0HF6.png

"that's that 'me' espresso" has always made sense to me and i am impressed by both explanations in that them article seeming to get it wrong?

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

yeah way to make heavy weather of something that is very straightforward

Clearly you have never really, really needed $100.

Completely baffled by the last two posts

"that's that 'me' espresso"

How is this different from the first explanation? (If there’s a 3rd interpretation, I want to hear it!)

It’s not, but ironically that article spends a lot of time describing the competing interpretations in the most unclear terms possible.

The article is kind of annoying, I just agree with the grammarian. Appositively.

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

Oh lol, I hadn’t seen Whiney’s thread

I just wanted to note that it’s kind of funny that I haven’t gone out of my way to avoid this song or anything but I never heard of it before this thread declared it inescapable and I have yet to encounter it in any of the public spaces I inhabit that play music.

I'm thoroughly insulated; I would never have heard it without pulling it up on YouTube after reading an article about it on Slate. Then I did some research and learned that Sabrina Carpenter has five albums. I would have assumed this was her debut single.

This thread so far hasn't mentioned the little 6-note guitar figure in the pre-chorus, which a nice piece of Trevor Horn-ish cheeze and I think one of the song's key hooks.

Just saw that there's a new cabaret show called Broadway Loves Sabrina Carpenter featuring over 12 stars of Broadway performing her songs at the renowned venue 54 Below in Manhattan. Coming up in August.

To me, too she seems like some kind of stealth superstar.

Unfortunately her just-released new single “Please Please Please” (not a James Brown cover) is a bit “mid”, as the kids say. But it was cute seeing her with her real-life boyfriend in the video.

The lyrics to the new one are pretty funny

Yup and it’s very catchy/sweet. I like how it changes key as soon as the second verse : a rare pop trick iirc

the new one is just a bit too much self-aware wackiness for me, I can feel it trying to be a meme of itself

I still don't think I've knowingly heard this song. Not out of any staid principle or intentional avoidance, I just genuinely think it has escaped me thus far.

I wish "Please Please Please" had been a James Brown cover.

I've avoided the full song, too, somehow. But I have heard her do what I assume are the changeable last few lines a few dozen times ... at various concerts, on SNL, etc. (I'm online.)

GODDAMMIT tickets for her new U.S. tour went on sale two days ago and I totally missed it FML.

I recently learned that Sabrina C. was rumored to be the "another actress" referenced in Olivia Rodrigo's "Deja Vu."

my god the chord changes in pls pls pls are incredible. so much better than espresso

i wasn't hanging around here last year but i'm kinda disappointed in ilx by the fact that nobody seems to have mentioned "nonsense" in this thread or in any year-end poll stuff last year. "nonsense" about 10x better than "espresso" imo.

my one memory of that one is the song coming on and a friend going "is this a new ariana song?" then shazam'ing it and going "oh, sabrina carpenter? i think i've heard of her." i didn't ask but he probably only knew about her from the gossip surrounding "drivers license" lol

bet your house is where my other sock is

nah fr sabrina is putting out such great fun quick cheap thrill bubblegum that's not so emotionally intense/stuck up/self serious like plenty of pop seems to be now and that's the draw for me

my child now requests espresso on 75% of car trips, i can say with confidence its charm was not apparent the first time but has become apparent by the 90th time where i have not really gotten sick of it (sorry chappell roan, i cannot say the same about "good luck, babe!"). it's funny and it has a good bassline. it's trying just hard enough.

Speaking from personal experience: in my little city in mexico Sabrina Carpenter isn’t famous and Espresso wasn’t a hit in its original form and yet I’ve overheard the Mark Ronson remix all over bars and cafes in here. It’s probably being pushed in “indie” or “summer” or “alternative” playlists in that form.

The top spotify charts in mexico are so depressing to me at the moment. There used to be more international acts present and right now it’s 95% corridos tumbados and “please please please” at #42. That’s it.

album is really good... a few knockout album tracks

probably the best kacey musgraves song in like 6 years is on this album

what are your favs? i did a quick scan and landed on "good graces" for another dance pop track.

I think listening to the album really underscores how absolutely deliberate the ridiculous/hilarious tightrope walking the lyrical approach is:

Come ride on me, I mean camaraderie
Said you're not in my timezone, but you wanna be
Where art thou? Why not uponeth me?
See it in my mind, let's fulfill the prophecy

I mean this is smart writing I think:

You don’t have to lie to girls
If they like you they’ll just lie to themselves
Like you, they’ll just lie to themselves

Sabrina Carpenter continuing to elevate the role of punctuation in pop songs in 2024

The writing's good, the production embalms some of the tracks.

'please please please' aside, this feels like a real step down (or backwards/sideways?) from 'emails'. i loved the driving pace, dynamics and lightheartedness of that - not to mention the vocal runs and range she demonstrated. this one feels so clumsy and pale, like all the worst t-swift clangers. :(

what are your favs? i did a quick scan and landed on "good graces" for another dance pop track.

― he/him hoo-hah (map), Friday, August 23, 2024 7:10 PM (yesterday)

good graces, bed chem, slim pickins are prob up there w/ the best pop songs of the year for me

to me the production feels streamlined and edited down in a way that flatters the album. the light threading of FM radio and country twang in the first half pays off majorly w/ "slim pickins". it maybe falls off slightly after that tho "don't smile" is a wonderful closer. "sharpest tool" is the one that just sounds way too much like taylor for me, but "dumb & poetic" comes off more like a winning lana homage than a reject

^^^ j0rdan knows what’s up

the way my brain works this album immediately slotted in my head next to CRJ - dedicated (sonically speaking) and katy perry - prism. some of these songs have a style that's similar to good katy perry songs where the songwriting is really punchy and witty (and all innuendo) until the bridge where the song lets out some slack a bit and you get to exhale, but there's still fun production & lyrical things happening. maybe at some point the singer starts rapping. "this is how we do" and "international smile" feel like foundational texts.

also w/ all of the non-antonoff songs on this album being produced by john ryan and/or julian bunetta i can't help but think of one direction - four. there's a lot of "stockholm syndrome" in "taste", a lot of this album's smoothness was first worked out on "fireproof". this may not be relevant to anyone else, but i was predisposed to like this album in a way i did not understand when pressing play

goddamn I love the guitars on "Taste." I also love how the hook works as revenge fantasy and homoerotic come-on -- in both senses of the term. She could be aiming her lyrics at a bisexual male lover.

A future karaoke favorite.

"this is how we do" being a foundational text makes me feel v comfortable skipping listening to this

sorry about this dumb post, but she's like .. really hot. i'm gay but whatever small percent of straight in my kinsey profile gets a little strum from her.

!

man “good graces” is a slice of perfection … the lil bass beat, that sorta woodwind-y keyboard sound, the outro having an argument for catchiest part…

"Juno" has become my favorite -- it's got a 1975/Lindsey Buckingham lilt.

i regret my last post 😬. i like that her thing seems to be "unapologetic princess." the side of humor is crucial ofc. she seems tailor made for gay men with a taste for queens. anyway yeah i love "good graces". surprisingly sick beat.

There's nothing wrong with finding her hot!. She and Chappell Roan have cornered the market on hyperintelligent female singer-songwriters who make fools out of guys like us.

she's like .. really hot

https://www.artchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Freedom-of-Speech-Rockwell-Norman-1943-3.jpg

It was never ok for me to point out this stuff in my heyday as an ilm poster. xp

lmao flopson

i called a female musician hot in a thread years back and got yelled at.

Yeah but you went too far with the cartoon wolf awoooooooga.

i think maybe you guys just need to be hotter and you'd be able to get away with it.

This “Yoo-hoo boys!” ass outfit pic.twitter.com/UplGPM4ePB

— drew (@fkapigz) June 23, 2024

i blame lana del rey

my friend knows i like 90s miami/atlanta bass stuff and sent me "good graces", fine i'll admit it's good

:) ok now try "bed chem"

i like this album! i like this girl!

"bed chem" is nuts. i played it out last saturday, felt like people had barely listened to it but they lost their minds.

come right on me, i mean camaraderie

I sang H.O.T. T.O. G.OOOOOOOOOO on my way to class a couple weeks ago and got stares.

now sing it when you're just about to get into it with a hookup

Y.E.S.

my kid screamed it out the sunroof hanging around waiting for her adoption hearing

she learned it at day camp

I’m obviously missing something : did S. Carpenter cover C. Roan’s « hot to go » ?

yeah I think you guys have the wrong popstar du jour thread

xpost no but she did cover "good luck, babe" heh

Yes I knew about the « Good luck babe » cover that’s why I was wondering !

"lie to girls" is just like, quite a song. weirdly it's sort of flattering to dudes tbh.

that's the one i skip on here tbh

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/pulp-played-their-final-show-of-2024-at-hollywood-forever-cemetery-jarvis-cocker-says-this-is-only-the-beginning-video-setlist/

Lol, wrong thread

I’d love a Jarvis and Sabrina collab

E.S.P.R.E.S.S.O.

I can't relate/ to common people

Short n Sweet has been getting a lot of play in my house lately. The variety of styles is pretty impressive.

Come right on me, I mean it. Come right on me

One my first listen to the latest one.

As I just mentioned to a former ILX poster:

“ I can’t decide whether or not I like this

It’s a little too light and slight. But then it seems like in five or six listens I could feel different”

That's usually how it goes tbh

totally!! i heard this song a few times and was like whatever, then i heard my coworker singing it to herself and it got stuck in my head. then it was stuck so bad i had to watch the video to get it out of my head and realized the lyrics are actually sort of funny and surprise, now i like it.

It really rides off the feeling that it could have been a song in the Barbie movie

probably the best kacey musgraves song in like 6 years is on this album

― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Friday, August 23, 2024 11:53 PM (one month ago)

which one??

I’ve just done an Espresso acapella/Queen Of The Night mashup which I’m hoping will work this Friday.

hey mike, where did you get the a cappella?

It's on iTunes, as Espresso (Mochapella Version).

which one??

"Slim Pickins" I assume

ah, makes sense

beautiful song but I feel Kacey would have done more (maybe too much) lyrically

I have listened to this album over and over again and still don't know what I think. Good thing actually, as many other albums like that have turned into my all-time favorite.

To take this discusses here. I probably think "Please Please PPlease" is better than
"Espresso" and this album also has "Taste," three of the best songs of the year.

Anyways, this album is great.

So my 15 year old daughter gave my 10 year old daughter this album on CD yesterday for her birthday. None of us had heard anything beyond Espresso. My older kid gets dropped off for school first, so it’s just the two of us in the car while the CD plays for the first time. Pretty quickly we realize that this is in no way suitable for the little one.

Older kid doesn’t like it much and I’m in love. The CD is mine now and I told 10 year old she can pick out something else.

HOORAY FOR DAD

So my 15 year old daughter gave my 10 year old daughter this album on CD yesterday for her birthday. None of us had heard anything beyond Espresso. My older kid gets dropped off for school first, so it’s just the two of us in the car while the CD plays for the first time. Pretty quickly we realize that this is in no way suitable for the little one.

Older kid doesn’t like it much and I’m in love. The CD is mine now and I told 10 year old she can pick out something else.

HOORAY FOR DAD

I understand the parenthood concerns (with a child myself) I think back to what I was listening to when I was 10 and this seems pretty mild, comparatively. It's a different era, parenthood-wise, clearly.

lol I listened to this with my 9yo and didn't think twice about the lyrics.

Oh, it's totally about my kid. It took her a long time to be able to watch a kissing scene in a movie without hiding her eyes.

Possibly the most beloved SNL sketch from this season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLn5qNngGn4

In a year with Doechii it was never going to be the best Tiny Desk but this full on Dolly Parton thing is so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEoGvTlJMyY

hahaha this is fab, greatly enjoyed it

she's playing up that little twang in her voice because of the setting arrangement? or does it just get polished away by production? or was i missing it all this time?

It's there on the album but she's really playing it up here.

xpost i meant to type "setting / arrangement"

the album is really good isn't it?

"sharpest tool" is kinda heartbreaking. "we never talk about how you found god at your ex's house / always made sure that the phone was face down / seems like overnight i'm just a bitch you hate now" is brutal. some production risks on this one that pay off. i like that behind the joke couplets and the risque bits she has a very adult sense of relationships.

i think "taste" is just a perfect song. so much joy and playfulness in a song about stealing someone's man and then giving him back. "i know i've been known to share" just sends it into overdrive.

my other fav is "coincidence". god it's such a rush to hear the narrator of this story celebrate with affection the obsessive love of her lover for someone else. a song that makes me believe in love and feel it. ugh i just love it! and not to mention what is my personal favorite lol on the album "this week you're holding space for her tongue in your mouth"

another line that's really good is in "dumb & poetic" - "just because you talk like a woman doesn't make you a man." someone could write a thesis on that one.

“nespresso” Remix when

"Taste" is a perfect song, indeed.

The Song Exploder episode w/ her and Jack about "Please Please Please" is fun.

I've been learning "Taste" for a future karaoke session.

the album is really good isn't it?

Like I have said before, my most played album of last year. Voting "Please Please Please" as my song of the year and "Taste" will also make my Top 25. I can't do three because if I did then also "Juno," not to even mention "Good Graces."

been hearing ‘bed chem’ everywhere lately. amazing song

verse of the year on "Bed Chem," that second one

"Bed Chem" definitely my pick of the album

realized this album is giving fleetwood mac vibes a lot of the time

"Bed Chem" does feel more like 2025 as that is the song that is blowing up at the moment.

Adore me, hold me, and explore me
Mark your territory
Tell me I'm the only, only, only, only one
Adore me, hold me, and explore me
I'm so fuckin' horny
Tell me I'm the only, only, only, only one

What an album!

Oh, "Juno" is purest Tango in the Night

"Bed Chem" sounds like The 1975.

"Taste" sounds like The Japanese House, whom I think are produced by the 1975.

don't sleep on "coincidence" you guys that song is a jam.

I was talking with a (former? unsure if he still posts here) ILXor on Bluesky about my inability to grok Sabrina Carpenter and he compared her to Meghan Trainor, which is an association I don’t think I will ever shake now that I have it

behind all the jokes and innuendo and immaculate songcraft her vibe is very trad pop princess - maybe that has something to do with it? it sort of seems like the love interests in her songs are all knuckledragging pretty boys, that she's over all of their bullshit but still falls for them. i gayly relate to that.

there's that hint of polyamory in 'taste' with that line "i know i've been known to share". i think chappell may have done something similar? anyway, i'm hoping for more poly from major pop artists in 2025.

she is approximately 100 times better and more interesting than Trainor

haha right

yeah, sabrina carpenter isn't unlike meghan trainor -- they're both blonde white women riffing on trad tropes who sing cheeky mainstream pop songs and overall rely largely on humor and innuendo to power their songwriting and celebrity. i think where the comparison breaks down is that 'short & sweet' is often really really great and meaghan trainor is..... meaghan trainor? idk how else to say it! it's kinda like eating a slice of domino's pizza and being like "hey this reminds me of one of those great new york slices!" like, you're not wrong... you *are* eating pizza... but anyone w/ taste would be like, well......

i mean, my comparison point for sabrina has always been katy perry, who is definitely better than meghan trainor but is also a white woman pop star riffing on traditional american notions of femininity and sexuality w/ punchline-y music who is divisive, non-respected and at this point kinda the current day avatar for no talent having pop flop desperation. not exactly someone who i'm dying to invoke in relation to one of my favorite albums of the year. but i think what i & other ppl are responding to in 'short & sweet' is that her jokes are both funnier and smarter, her music is indicative of someone w/ better taste in influences and production, and overall it just feels like the specific kinda pop star character we're talking out here has been sharpened to about as fine a point as you could muster. part of the frisson is in how close she gets to being what you describe, but actually tipping over to the other side of just fully nailing it in a way that conveys she's operating on a level that those others cannot. as map alludes to, she says stuff in her songs that resonates w/ the way lots of people feel about romance and dating right now, which i don't think anyone has ever ascribed to trainor or katy perry. 'short & sweet' has all the cotton candy instant gratification goodness of that kinda disposable pop but an emotional depth and ability to show its hand w/ influences while still feeling singular that those other artists have never really gotten close to accomplishing. imo

I was talking with a (former? unsure if he still posts here) ILXor on Bluesky about my inability to grok Sabrina Carpenter and he compared her to Meghan Trainor, which is an association I don’t think I will ever shake now that I have it

― DJP, Wednesday, January 15, 2025 12:59 PM

I think the difference is that while Carpenter will often wink at the listener Meghan Trainor winked so furiously she stabbed her cornea with the eyelashes.

i'm not sure one is winking less than the other, it's just that one writes good jokes and the other doesn't. so the winking actually does the job of drawing you closer.

or like, katy perry "i kissed a girl" is kinda the caveman scrawl version of sabrina's "taste"

MT is like the epic bacon pop artist and Sabrina’s at least joking about subtlety or the lack thereof

I never heard Meghan Trainor outside of a radio single but she struck me as the Austin Powers “do I make you horny, baby?!” of music

there's that hint of polyamory in 'taste' with that line "i know i've been known to share".

The whole song is pretty poly, some of it is just in her intonation — Taylor Swift would make it sound vindictive, "You'll just have to taste me," but Carpenter sounds like she's enjoying the idea.

i still stan golden-age perry hits but imo both her and trainor are pretty awful singers. they just kind of honk away in a narrow range. whereas carpenter's slipping into falsettos hitting sweet dulcet tones. not saying she's a vocal acrobat but i don't think trainor or perry could sing her songs

i've had "espresso" stuck in my head for 2 days while nursing a cold and i can only remember two lyrics: "espresso" and "i guess so"
the rest is melody. she has a knack for making the words irrelevant until you care to pay attention to them. it also leads to massive earworming.

i think the word "vacation" is in there somewhere at the end of a line

“Walked in and dream-come-trued it for you” is just an incredible line

my give a fucks
are on vacation

yeah like when you DO finally realize what the words are, they're clever and funny and v original
i appreciate that

the little hint of nonchalance in "is it that sweet i guess so" is so delish

i also love her hints of bro-down-ableness, referencing nintendo and mountain dew and then the line about high-fiving her girlfriends in another song - i think it's juno?

The part in "Espresso" that I always get stuck in my head is the "I'm working late, cuz I'm a singer." At some point, for no real reason, I started singing "I'm working late, Barack Obama."

Same! She sounds like Alanis in that bit.

my earworm is literally

bleppeta blee bleppeta blo bleppeta blee espresso-o-o
bleppeta blee bleppeta blo bleppeta blee i guess so-o-o

i could look up the words but it wouldn't make it go away it would just make it more detailed

Neither Katy Perry nor Megan Trainor (lol) have that inscrutability that i enjoy about Sabrina Carpenter. I also only remember the lyric "don't embarrass me motherfucker" from the other song. Like, real life kudos to her for squeezing that super relatable sentiment into a pop song.

she has so much relatableness going on! her melodies are great for sure. lots of pleasure in little zaps of truth lightning everywhere in her lyrics too.

The whole song is pretty poly, some of it is just in her intonation — Taylor Swift would make it sound vindictive, "You'll just have to taste me," but Carpenter sounds like she's enjoying the idea.

― paper plans (tipsy mothra), Thursday, January 16, 2025 4:59 AM (sixteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

right? there's a hint of this idea that the narrator kind of educated him and took him to the next level and she's getting pleasure out of the ex enjoying the fruits of that.

on paper sc is similar to ts but i think they're coming from very different places. i've tried with swift and i guess i have the stomach for a few songs but i just don't fucking like her and her broad self-conscious schmaltz at all. swift is like the disney channel to sabrina's comedy central? i'm honestly so happy 2024 was the year that broke major pop talent outside of the swift bermuda triangle.

Taylor Swift running off to write a song about being the Bermuda Triangle

The part in "Espresso" that I always get stuck in my head is the "I'm working late, cuz I'm a singer."

Same, the most mundane line but very memorable I guess

My main issue with Taylor Swift these days is that she's painted herself into an aesthetic corner. On TTPD, she's perfected the idea of the Taylor Swift song, with all of the familiar chord changes and production choices and autobiographical lyrics rooted in personal obsessions. It feels hermetic. What's refreshing about Short n Sweet, by contrast, is not just the frothy fun that Sabrina brings to the songs but also their stylistic range, from R&B to country to disco. And it all works, too.

Well well:

On the heels of her double GRAMMY win, global superstar Sabrina Carpenter has announced that the deluxe version of her number 1 album Short n’ Sweet will be released on February 14. The album will feature five new tracks, including a duet with Dolly Parton on “Please, Please, Please.”

Well well well

Just popping into this thread to say that I adored her Grammys performance, okthxbye!

It was a lot of fun!

Between this, Taylor and Charli.. it just doesn't pay to bother buying a new pop album until it's at least a year old.

And Olivia. And almost all of them (annoyingly not Chappell, who reissued the album on vinyl but didn't add anything, including "Good Luck, Babe").

I don't mind the "year later" reissue to re-stoke interest. It's the Taylor and Charli thing of "tomorrow there will be another 6 tracks and then next week 3 more" etc that bothers me most*. I want an album to be an album and know what is. Short n Sweet is gonna be those 12 songs/36 minutes on the vinyl copy I've already got.

*Beyonce actually the worst one for this but not with that intention.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DF70ijjpCWs/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiQ7qiL73aI

The country version featuring Dolly Parton.

ohhhh i knew i was hoping for too much thinking i'd get to see dolly parton sing 'motherfucker'

it's still good i guess

New tour dates:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGlKKECud5l/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Highlighting USA dates:

10-23 Pittsburgh, PA - PPG Paints Arena #$
10-24 Pittsburgh, PA - PPG Paints Arena #$
10-29 New York, NY - Madison Square Garden #$
10-31 New York, NY - Madison Square Garden #$
11-01 New York, NY - Madison Square Garden #$
11-04 Nashville, TN - Bridgestone Arena #$
11-05 Nashville, TN - Bridgestone Arena #$
11-10 Toronto, Ontario - Scotiabank Arena ^$
11-11 Toronto, Ontario - Scotiabank Arena ^$
11-20 Los Angeles, CA - Crypto.com Arena ^$
11-22 Los Angeles, CA - Crypto.com Arena ^$
11-23 Los Angeles, CA - Crypto.com Arena ^$

# with Olivia Dean
$ with Amber Mark
^ with Ravyn Lenae

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/brit-awards-complaints-sabrina-carpenter-charli-xcx-b2709967.html

Ofcom has received 825 complaints following the Brit Awards, primarily targeting Sabrina Carpenter's opening performance...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mtJvsfAtF0

Sabrina Carpenter shares new teaser.

pic.twitter.com/0yrrTCQKT8

— Pop Base (@PopBase) June 2, 2025

this one’s about you!!

“Manchild”

is out this Thursday 6/5
8pm EST♥️

special 7” vinyl available now. https://t.co/MyhuxjAOhN pic.twitter.com/RUwG6p9UUj

— Sabrina Carpenter (@SabrinaAnnLynn) June 3, 2025

She just refuses to stop.

Hope this single puts an end to that Alex Warren reign of terror in the UK singles chart next week.

Exploring with excitement, she's the Queen right now, no one's better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAVFSp5zBqc

song is bad

Yeah, she’s done better. Disappointed.

it's pretty good imo. extremely catchy. kind of feels like a precis of a theme she covered well on short and sweet and as such it's .. a little generic? not sure i get the lines in the last section "i like my boys playing hard to get and i like my men all incompetent". actually, scratch that, now that i think about my own romantic experiences, i get it - pretty good, yeah. it's already growing on me.

but it also doesn't feel as effortless and timeless-upon-arrival as "please please please". there is more at stake emotionally with the female pov in that song whereas in this one she feels a little sneering. there is that touch of self-deflating awareness she does well ("i swear they choose me, i'm not choosing them"), which is always welcome. but there's also a dud line like "i choose to blame your mom". idk hope she hasn't lost the magic.

I like that sort of bubbly mid-'80s synth sound. The song I'll need to hear some more to sink in, but I at least like the vibe.

I have no idea what this song thinks it's doing in the pre-chorus or chorus or second verse or really any moment after about the first 25 seconds, and honestly I love that for her and me.

It sounds like someone playing every song from Mirage simultaneously like it's Zaireeka.

learning from the past few posts that there are so many ways to say "this is bad", interesting

Sorry everyone, this thread is now locked

I haven't heard it yet

Her next videos will pay tribute to Radio KAOS and Amused to Death

the song feels a bit like someone gave them an assignment to combine all of 'short n sweet' into one song however i think it's really fun

tim and j0rdan otm

i gave short n' sweet a listen this morning. it hasn't lost any of its charm tho "please please please" and "bed chem" are kinda played out for me. "taste" and "espresso" on the other hand still hit! "taste" especially - it's all rush. "sharpest tool" is still my favorite song on the album, something about it feels realer than say "dumb and poetic" (sort of strawman-y) or "slim pickins" (high camp). that last song, "don't smile", stood out for me too, just a great vibe.

Antonoff plays acoustic guitar, electric guitar, banjo and sitar on this, and there's also a pedal steel guitar in there somewhere, and why oh why does pop sound like this right now? On the new Miley Cyrus there's a song with three different people playing harpsichord, and everything just sounds like goo.

I sang "Taste" at karaoke two weeks ago -- some of the straighter elements of the audience looked queasy.

did she make a movie we haven't seen and then turn the movie into that video? or is that just a single video shoot?

looks expensive!

https://bsky.app/profile/bugsmaytrix.bsky.social/post/3lrdz7hdybs26

(it's someone commenting on the cover of the new album with "holy shit smell the glove is real")

It's like the woman on a Scorpions album cover gets to make her own record

Needs it's own thread:

Sabrina Carpenter - Man’s Best Friend