assertions in pop songs that were true at the point the song was written/recorded, but are no longer true

e.g. "Reagan's president elect" from '(We Don't Need This) Fascist Groove Thang' by Heaven 17 - this was true from 4th of November 1980 until 20th of January 1981

I was thinking of "It's 1977" from 'Plastic Bag' by X-Ray Spex, but apparently that was recorded in 1978, maybe it was written in 1977? (anyway, true from 1st of January 1977 until 31st of December 1977)

“Nixon’s in a coma, and I hope it’s gonna last” / Luna, Rhythm King

There are going to be lots of examples of singers stating the then-current year, e.g. Stooges "1969" (and arguably "1970") and a zillion rap songs

Ozzy Osbourne- "Flying High Again"

The Kinks, "Holloway Jail"

They could have taken Ray's baby "down Holloway Jail" anytime between 1852 and July 2016. Now she'd probably go to either HMP Downview or HMP Bronzefield.

Clint Ballard Jr. wrote "I'm Alive" for The Hollies

The Prima Donnas’ “Reagan’s Dead” proudly declares that it’s 1998 and that person is dead, which wasn’t true then or for several years after that, but is true now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpzb1S_nOvw

Carter power did go 'way, but Jerry never did become president

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3pvLPnWRU

"And I swear that I don't have a gun" - Kurt Cobain, 'Come As You Are'.

"there's three of us, but we're not the Beatles"

“Stand down Margaret, stand down” - English Beat

"I was 21 years when I wrote this song, I'm 22 now but I won't be for long"

Whitey's on the moon

quite a long time since john lennon saw a film, oh boy

xxp The Stooges have a few of these:
'1969' - "Well it's 1969 okay", "Now last year I was 21", "And now I'm gonna be 22"
'1970' - "Out of my mind on Saturday night. 1970 rollin' in sight." - bonus as I think it's been quite a long time since Iggy has been out of his mind on a Saturday night

Thin Lizzy, "The Rocker"

"I love to rock and roll
I get my records at the ‘Rock On’ stall"

The Rock On record stall off the Portobello Road is now a health food shop selling overpriced rye bread and the like. Seems the record stall was actually run by their manager, so the song can be seen as an early example of stealth advertising.

https://www.britishrecordshoparchive.org/shops/rock-on/

George Michael "I'm not planning on going solo"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PuP6lgah_M

They say:
It's a cold world
A cold, cold world
It's a cold world
A cold, cold world

"It's fun to stay at the YMCA" - Village People

More from the Kinks:

"My baby woke me up this mornin'
She said get down that labour exchange"

Labour Exchanges were renamed Job Centres in 1973.

Or just
Another
Country
Another council tenancy

There are hardly any council tenancies in 2024

(ok but you get the point)

"In Our Time" by Nancy Sinatra, written by Lee Hazlewood:

Girls were once suffragettes
Now they're out takin' bets
Smokin' filter cigarettes

The smoking rate among women 18-24 is down to around 5% today (US), far lower than its peak in the mid '60s when the song was recorded.

(Although tbf the song is called "In Our Time")
(Happy belated Birthday to Nancy Sinatra!)

More from the Kinks:

_"My baby woke me up this mornin'
She said get down that labour exchange"_

Labour Exchanges were renamed Job Centres in 1973.

“Cig Machine” by The Suburbs (1980)

I'm 22 now
And I got a nice cock

Half of that may still be true, I’d have no way of knowing.

Lots of money references are long obsolete, e.g. "dollar nine, get a bottle of wine" (Gil Scott-Heron, "The Bottle")

It winds from Chicago to LA
More than 2000 miles all the way

"(Get Your Kicks on) Route 66" written by Bobby Troup

has tectonic activity significantly increased that distance?

I doubt that, it’s just that the highway doesn’t technically exist anymore and there’s nothing continuous of what’s left of it.

Could Jeff Tweedy really still get cigarettes AND Diet Coke for just $3.63 even in 2001?

"look, I'll call you in the morning or my service'll explain."

or is obsolescence another thing?

the Holloway jail one is great

Could Jeff Tweedy really still get cigarettes AND Diet Coke for just $3.63 even in 2001?

Possibly? If they were cheapie, no-name smokes and canned Cokes were still pretty cheap then (50¢ in vending machines/convenience stores, and even less at Walmart, who sold them in their machines as loss leaders at 35¢ and their store brand for only a quarter).

On the note of jails and etc, any songs which mention Borstal ("The Criminal Justice Act 1982 abolished the borstal system in the UK, replacing borstals with youth custody centre2 - wikipedia)

Borstal Breakout by Sham 69
Borstal Boys by The Faces

Weird Al’s “I Lost on Jeopardy” refers to Art Fleming as the host

“Cig Machine” by The Suburbs (1980)

I'm 22 now
And I got a nice cock

Half of that may still be true, I’d have no way of knowing.

Haha yes, the first line is “Standing by the cig machine
trying to pick up girls.” No more, dude.

"They're bound to get you,
'Cos they got a curfew,
And you go to the Starkville City Jail,
And you go to the Starkville City Jail."

You would now go to the Oktibbeha County Jail, although strictly speaking that's what it was already called when Johnny Cash was arrested for picking flowers in May 1965.

"Hey there, where you going with that UB40 in your hand?" ('Going Down to Liverpool' by Katrina and The Waves)

This would now be, "Hey there, where you going with that laptop, tablet, mobile phone - or other portable electronic device - with which you applied online for 'new style' Jobseeker's Allowance in your hand?"

By extension, the chorus "I'm going down to Liverpool to do nothing all the days of my life" would become "I'm going down to Liverpool for a Jobcentre Plus interview about actively seeking employment, which may involve a requirement to attend an interview about a Work Club or an Enterprise Club."

Haha yes, the first line is “Standing by the cig machine
trying to pick up girls.” No more, dude.

Could Jeff Tweedy really still get cigarettes AND Diet Coke for just $3.63 even in 2001?

You mean untipped? I mean, maybe they used to sell lit cigarettes but I dunno...

2001 average price per pack: $3.37

^^So doable if he bought a 25¢ Sam's Choice Diet Cola from a vending machine instead of a Diet Coke.

"This is how we chill from '93 'til"

’93 ’Til Infinity began as ’91 ’Til Infinity, with a different beat. Was obsolete before it was even released!

USA or Basic cigarettes cost between $1.50 and $2.25 back then, depending on where you were in the country.

Colin Newman, "Lorries"

"Always descriptive, lorries green or blue
That come from from Italy or Czechoslovakia"

Czechoslovakia ceased to exist on 31st December, 1992.

i feel like this thread has real potential, but most everything posted is like "details that are now outdated" -- which is like most music with lyrics? factual assertions that are no longer true is a more interesting idea

although i do need to say that learning that people in england call jails "His Majesty's Prison" is sooo fucking funny

Any songs about Pluto being a planet?

Colin Matthews' Plutothe Renewer, is, ironically, out of date

(xp) "Solar System" by the Beach Boys.

Any songs about Pluto being a planet?

very much enjoyed Frank Zappa's "Rabbit Tests are How We Determine if Women are Pregnant and There Will Never Be another Way"

lmao

Young MC:
"A movie's showing
so you're going
could care less about the $5 you're blowing"

TMBG's cover of an educational number from Hy Zaret's 'Space Songs':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjRx3o-BYZ4

But they did the honourable thing and updated it some years later:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLkGSV9WDMA

I thought it was cool how that wound up on their science-themed album, just to give a real example of how science updates our understanding of the universe over time

e.g. "Reagan's president elect" from '(We Don't Need This) Fascist Groove Thang' by Heaven 17 - this was true from 4th of November 1980 until 20th of January 1981

― Platinum Penguin Pavilion (soref), Saturday, 8 June 2024 21:22 (two days ago) link

Whooooa, had not opened the thread yet but this just popped up on shuffle so I clicked through. Serendipity!

This phenomenon in general reminds me of my family's hilarious attempt to play a hopelessly out-of-date edition of Trivial Pursuit from the '80s that had been stuck in a closet at my mom's house for forever. The correct answer to every other question was basically 'N/A'.

Eminem's famous "Without Me" Moby zing "Nobody listens to techno"

Assertions in pop songs that have fluctuated between being true and not true and may also depend on what economist you talk to:

Stock market going up
Jobs going down
Ain't no funky job to be found

"Funky President (People It's Bad)" by James Brown

I thought still referring to him as a techno artist in 2002 was meant to belittling in the same way calling George Michael a boyband guy might be be

Fleetwood Mac - "Never Going Back Again"

And of course the famous Dr. Dre line

I still express, yo I don't smoke weed or sess
Cause it's known to give a brother brain damage
And brain damage on the mic don't manage nothing
But making a sucker and you equal, don't be another sequel

Paul Hardcastle, "19":

"They fought the longest war in American history"

:(

Any songs about Pluto being a planet?

Holst’s The Planets ?
― Are you addicted to struggling with your horse? (Boring, Maryland), Monday, June 10, 2024 4:42 PM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Nope, Pluto hadn't been discovered when he wrote it.

Scraping Foetus Off The Wheel, "The Throne of Agony"

"Yeah, I'm the one who gave the sandwich to Mama Cass"

In reality, "Mama" Cass Elliot died in her sleep of natural causes on the night of July 29, 1974. According to Lindsay Zoldaz in The New York Times in 2024, this "cartoonish rumor — propagated in endless pop culture references, from Austin Powers to Lost — cast a tawdry light over Elliot’s legacy and still threatens to overshadow her mighty, underappreciated talent." In 2020, a journalist and friend of Elliot's, Sue Cameron, publicly admitted that she promulgated the false ham sandwich story by writing it into Elliot's obituary for The Hollywood Reporter. She claimed she was asked to print the lie by Elliot's manager Allan Carr, who decided that the humiliating falsehood was preferable to any implication that Elliot's death was associated with substance abuse.

Doesn’t really qualify for the first part of thread title then

Couldn't find a Mamas & Papas example, this was the next best thing

every song on jay-z’s the black album where he says he’s retiring from rap

Weird Al’s “I Lost on Jeopardy” refers to Art Fleming as the host

― frogbs

jeopardy ended in 1975, there was a brief '78-'79 revival with fleming as the host but don pardo didn't announce - yankovic specifically calls out pardo as the announcer, so it wasn't true even as of the time of the recording

“Cig Machine” by The Suburbs (1980)

I'm 22 now
And I got a nice cock

Half of that may still be true, I’d have no way of knowing.

― Overly dramatic elevator music (Dan Peterson)

if only i'd written some songs about my cock

Is the song set in 2001?
Also the cigarettes were unlit - important for comparative purposes.

― assert (matttkkkk)

was played as early as 2000 iirc

very much enjoyed Frank Zappa's "Rabbit Tests are How We Determine if Women are Pregnant and There Will Never Be another Way"

― Iacocca Cola (Neanderthal)

wow you made it to side five of that record, huh?

Assertions in pop songs that have fluctuated between being true and not true and may also depend on what economist you talk to:

― Josefa

schroedinger's pop song

i feel like this thread has real potential, but most everything posted is like "details that are now outdated" -- which is like most music with lyrics? factual assertions that are no longer true is a more interesting idea

― budo jeru

see a lot of science stuff is tricky because it's like

you know, all those songs about neutron bombs, like "kill the poor", it's based on an urban legend about the nature of the neutron bomb. far more common to have songs that were _widely believed to be true_ rather than things that were actually true at the time and now false.

"God Save the Queen"

assertions in pop songs that were not true at the point the song was written/recorded, but are now true

"she ain't no human being"

it unfortunately appears that Flynt Flossy is no longer "known across the nation"

how do people feel about artists updating the lyrics of these songs to keep up with the times? e.g. there was a Rapino Brothers remix of Fascist Groove Thing in 1993 that changed the words to "Democrats are back in power/Across that great wide ocean/Bush has proved you can't elect/Fascist god in motion". I remember Damon Albarn started singing "Love in the 90s/WAS paranoid" when Blur played Girls & Boys post y2k, don't know if he still does that.

U2 - Miami:

Got the sun got the sand
Got the batteries... in the handy cam

...

No big deal we know the score
Just back from the video store

BTW "dated" lyrics like these are so endearing to me. I do kinda want a song to be stuck in the week and location it was written etc. etc.

assertions in pop songs that were not true at the point the song was written/recorded, but are now true

"she ain't no human being"

― peace, man, Friday, 14 June 2024 16:05 (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

double negative pedantry to go here

She certainly has no future now, apart from the getting eaten by worms bit

U2 - Miami:

Got the sun got the sand
Got the batteries... in the _handy cam_

...

No big deal we know the score
Just back from the _video store_

Paul McCartney can no longer go back to the USSR.

how do people feel about artists updating the lyrics of these songs to keep up with the times? e.g. there was a Rapino Brothers remix of Fascist Groove Thing in 1993 that changed the words to "Democrats are back in power/Across that great wide ocean/Bush has proved you can't elect/Fascist god in motion". I remember Damon Albarn started singing "Love in the 90s/WAS paranoid" when Blur played Girls & Boys post y2k, don't know if he still does that.

― Platinum Penguin Pavilion (soref), Friday, June 14, 2024 11:26 AM bookmarkflaglink

I did appreciate when Pearl Jam went on tour in 2000 and Vedder changed one lyric of "Do the Evolution" to "I'm George Bush and my son is an ass"

BTW "dated" lyrics like these are so endearing to me. I do kinda want a song to be stuck in the week and location it was written etc. etc.

― you can see me from westbury white horse, Friday, June 14, 2024 11:27 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

My favorite part of that Fred Armisen/Dave Grohl "old punks reunite at a wedding" SNL sketch is when Armisen says something like, "Take that, Alexander Haig," which I imagine was either consciously or unconsciously inspired by Dead Kennedys "We've Got a Bigger Problem Now"

that sketch was gold

the whole of Making Plans for Nigel. and not just because of British Steel - ignoring another unrelated company of that name now apparently - but just generally the idea that Nige's parents think that he'll be sorted for life if he's set up in the trade, no?

the toy dolls have that one song about 'when you're jimmy s*ville, everybody thinks you're brill'

Tupac "We ain't ready to have a black president"

The Fall updated "US 80s-90s" when done live post-1989 to "US 90s 00000000s". I can't seem to find the version I'm thinking of, though.

I guess when they broke up, that was the day Chumbawamba got knocked down and they did not get up again.

Oh I have one: Sleeper "Best of luck Mr Gorski"

Which turned out to be an urban legend ie untrue.

Does that count?

Toby Keith said in “American ride” that the plasma screen tvs were getting bigger but I don’t think that’s true anymore and I haven’t heard tv screens described as “plasma” for quite some time

Frazier Chorus - Little Chef :((

Like the 'Wambas mentioned above, it was sad when Carter's Machine stopped

"Take that, Alexander Haig,"

Jello did California Uber Alles with Dillinger Escape Plan last weekend at an LA punk festival, with "updated" lyrics about Governer Schwarzeneggar. might be time to update them again?

Yeah, that was from the 2nd Jello/Melvins album in 2005…

https://i.discogs.com/s8tj2YHCmRlr7tn1lTRUsFxu8CgLdoIpkZQJT9k_bqs/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:528/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI0NzEx/MS0xNTIwNDQ5NjU0/LTk2MjQuanBlZw.jpegaki onda - precious moments - bucolic bittersweet concrete

wrong thread, innit

Oh I have one: Sleeper "Best of luck Mr Gorski"

Which turned out to be an urban legend ie untrue.

Does that count?

― Mark G

god then we have to start talking about "jordan, minnesota"

i do _not_ want to talk about "jordan, minnesota"

I have a kind of reverse one. Green On Red, Two Lovers: "ain't no hate in the world, ain't no hole in the sky" - they're denying reality on purpose (because the only thing that's real is two lovers waiting to die), but in about 50 years time the ozone hole will actually be gone, which will be quite confusing for anyone still listening to that song in 2075.

California Uber Alles was mentioned above, but "now it is 1984" would be one that was not true at the point the song came out, then was true for a while, and then was not true again.

feel like there's a joke here about "Carter power will soon go away" and him surprising everyone by still being alive as of June 2024

“Johnny’s Gonna Die” by the Replacements was true at the time, but not anymore (because Johnny is dead.)

Sloan, 'Underwhelmed':
She was underwhelmed, if that's a word
I know it's not, 'cause I looked it up

Although the earliest usages of "underwhelmed" are attested to be between the '30s and '40s (and I cannot find the date of its addition to the major dictionaries), I strongly suspect that it was not an official entry in the dictionary in 1992, but rather was relegated to slangy use. However, it appears in every online dictionary I have checked. If Dude From Sloan were to look it up today, these lyrics would be false.

Not exactly a song comprised of "assertions", but a lot of people aged 64 in 2006 (even those who weren't Paul McCartney) were comporting themselves differently than those of that age in 1967.

how do people feel about artists updating the lyrics of these songs to keep up with the times?

Steve Kilbey occasionally adjusts the "I paid eighty dollars for this wedding ring" line in "Hotel Womb" for inflation "I paid eight thousand dollars..." etc.

artists updating lyrics, that feels like a whole other thread premise though (Morrissey, Bigmouth Strikes Again: "her walkman/ipod started to melt", Neil Young, After The Goldrush: "look at mother nature on the run in the 1970s/1980s/20th century/21st century")

stonking post emil.y, salute

According to OED, earliest citation is 1956.

He wrote..commending the action of one of the giant corporations for a..price reduction at a time when prices were rising. I was underwhelmed, and investigated.
T. K. Quinn, Giant Corporations viii. 61

First added to OED in 1986.

Overwhelmed goes back to the 14th century, so amazed it took 600 years for underwhelmed to appear.

Still waiting on whelmed though.

... to make a reappearance that is.

goldilocks on yelp

According to OED, earliest citation is 1956.

I can't find which dictionary I looked at that put it at the '30s/'40s, but Merriam Webster seems to have found a couple of written records of it from the 19th century!

First added to OED in 1986.

This is good intel - how did you find this out? I was getting pretty frustrated in my searches. There are some sites where you can search by year to find what was added into the dictionary then (so you can do social media posts about what was added in your birth year etc) but I couldn't find one that let you search by word.

Anyway, I'm going to say that 1986 is close enough to 1992 that he probably did look it up in a dictionary and not find it!

On their website https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=underwhelm

I accessed the full entry through my library. If you’re a member of a library, university or other institution you may be able to get access.

Oh yes, I can see it - thanks so much for that, it's very useful.

For about a decade, I've been accessing the OED with my library card. My library doesn't actually have a subscription, but I've discovered that my card number works if I select the Glasgow library system.

Keeping an eye on sites like these to test the veracity of "lemonade was a popular drink and it still is". It's still true currently, but how long will it last???

The assertion that I’m curious about is

“The sale of pills are at an all-time high (sic)” from the Temptations’ “Ball of Confusion”

I’m sure that was true in 1970, and it’s undoubtedly true today (thus not what the thread asks for). But has it been true every single year between 1970 and now? If so that’s a rare assertion that was supposed to apply to the moment but which is true in a self-perpetuating way.

lol i always thought that lyric said "sales appeals are at an all time high"

I don't know whether Nick Lowe seriously good-faith believed that actress Marie Prevost (not "Provost") had been eaten upon by her dog, or whether or not any of those Kenneth Anger "Hollywood Babylon" assertions were taken seriously in the late 70s when he wrote the song; but of course they weren't true then nor now.

Incidentally, poor hapless Marie was a native of Sarnia, Ontario, just like the entire maternal side of my family.

(

Similarly, when Player 1 and Bloody Bonez made “Crime Rate Sky High” in 1994, that was true, but since then—-

"You can't catch me / 'Cause the rabbit done died"

The onward march of science has wiped the smirk from Steven Tyler's face. Wikipedia notes, "Modern pregnancy tests continue to operate on the basis of testing for the presence of the hormone hCG in the blood or urine, but no longer require the use of a live animal."

"But even the President of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked"

From It's Alright, Ma. Not even Dylan imagined a world where the prez is above the law. Shit

"But even the President of the United States
Sometimes must have to stand naked
So therefore flashing is an official act"

Back in October 1983 the Union of the Snake was in theory still on the climb - the party almost had the second-highest tally of votes in that year's election. But they fragmented over the course of the subsequent parliament and entered a slow and inexorable decline. Meanwhile the Buffalo Gals went round the outside. And now that Starlink is a thing it's hard to image a satellite ever being lonely. So that's two strikes against Duran Duran.

On a more serious level I was going to mention "Magic Bus" by The Who. It talks about the bus fare being thruppence and sixpence for a trip of a mile circa 1965. But the Bank of England's inflation calculator suggests that 9p in pre-decimal money circa 1965 is roughly £1.60 in 2024, which isn't that far off the standard £1.75 London bus fare. In rural areas it's actually very low, which undermines the whole thrust of the song (that it would be cheaper to buy the bus than multiple tickets). I'd just like to thank the entire rest of the United Kingdom for generously agreeing to subsidise bus fares in London. Thank you.

Except they're £2 round here.

Also TfL is pretty much entirely funded through the fare box and is not in receipt of a central government subsidy. Arguably “London” makes a net contribution to the UK economy (and as such funds Mark’s £2 bus around Berkshire) but that is a vexed question without a definitive answer.

TBF none of this is covered in The Who’s Magic Bus either, they should have seen this all coming.

also pre-decimal money wd have been 9d not 9p

Right here, right now

There is no other place I want to be

Watching the world wake up from history

Sweden sends warships to the Baltic Sea, thus making Prefab Sprout's claim about the obsoleteness of warships in the Baltic at the start of 'Faron Young' itself obsolete.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/12/swedish-pm-war-peace-armed-forces-enter-baltic

At the beginning of "Celebrated Summer", Bob Mould sings "Somewhere in April time/They add another hour". Now it's March.

lol
This is such an ilx thread

'I'm 23 now, will I live to see 24?' wasn't even true at time of release

Not every rap song is autobiographical

i'm guessing Blackburn council have done something about at least some of those holes.

i'm guessing there are many more after 14 years of cuts.

Robert De Niro is no longer waiting for Bananarama, and is likely not speaking italian

Yeah, but was he ever actually waiting for them?

Or is the song about going to a restaurant in the late 60s?

Sloane blew it in the first couplet on the first song of their first album:

She was underwhelmed, if that's a word
I know it's not, cause I looked it up

That might have been a clever line in 1992, but it's definitely a word now.

It is no longer 1969, Iggy Stooge, you idiot

"So here we stand at the edge of 1984" – Al Stewart

today, ukraine girls really get knocked out

it's a party in the usa

Re the opening post, Fascist Groove Thang was released in March 1981, by which time the "Reagan's President Elect" line was already out of date