Why Does Everyone Hate Jim O'Rourke?

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go.to/stevek

another four dozen albums, two dozen of which are solo and meant to demostrate how he's competent at EVERY GENRE in the world, the other two dozen of which are made from all the ideas that aren't good enough for his solo records plus some other alternagod's ideas that weren't good enough for their solo projects. These four dozen albums will be released over a period of nine months in 2003, ensuring he gets continual recognition in all the important magazines (Wire, CMJ).

Jim O'Rourke is yet another artist on my pile of guys I can't stand because he can't seem to be content with doing what he does well, preferring to dabble in a hundred different areas and performing rather poorly in nearly all of them. That laptop techno record was fucking awful wank, proof that MAX/MSP and Cubase are the new acoustic guitars of the industrialized world.

The funny thing about what he said in The Wire about Chicago is that I've heard the exact same sentiments from just about anybody I've known who has lived in Chicago at some point or another. I think it wasn't the sentiments that "shocked" people so much as it was that they didn't get to say it in an internationally-known publication themselves.

True, but I think the guy who wrote that article that ripped him a new one was talking about how his personality came out in his music -- to its detriment. A lot of the time, I think we're disappointed when someone we love turns out to be a jerk b/c it contrasts so much with his/her image on record. It seemed that guy thought O'Rourke sounded like an asshole.

I must confess at this point of yet another disclaimer: I met this “titan” of a man at a party when I was in college in 1995 or so while he was on tour with Gastro Del Sol [sic] and Tortoise.

These bands never toured together. Played together, maybe, but never toured together.

As a well-documented lover of Pop, the Beach Boys variety, O’Rourke clearly knows what “heart” is.

Actually, he's a well-documented hater of the Beach Boys.

But for all we learned in the second half of the 20th Century about form, context and content, epitomized most clearly by the deconstructionist postmodernism of the 80’s and 90’s, after all the pre-millennial tension was relieved like an overdue whizz, we discovered something about pop music that Gerry and the Pacemakers could have told us in 1959: pop music ain’t that complicated, at least not aesthetically. It speaks and will always speak a simple teenage truth, a truth of naïve sincerity and yearning.

Reads like someone who'd really appreciate Avril Lavigne. But seriously, the idea that pop music = teenage truth is seriously misguided, even when pop music is made by teenagers.

not to mention the smile/song cycle-isms all over camofleur and the similar perverse americana that brushes his singer/songwriter work.

How in God's name did he get along with Sean O'Hagan, then?

http://www.playinginfog.com/images01/orourke.02.jpghttp://www.clicks-and-klangs.com/archive/interviews/pics/0109orourke.jpg

I've never actually met him. A disturbing amount of people I know have told me they've had "problems" with him, or they had a falling out, or don't quite get along, or don't talk to one another any more. Weirdly, though, only one of these people has claimed this was because Jim was an awful person. So it all just adds up to funny local gossip and the great Mystery of O'Rourke.

I.e., I can see why some people felt betrayed, but who cares: it's not his fault for having an opinion.

it is kind of funny that he always seems to put an album out in a given style right when that style is being overappreciated by, say, "the wire." i mean, fahey-revival then o'rourke puts out his acoustic fingerpicking album...come on.

Some folks I know who have been produced by him were shocked at his apparant technical incompetence in the studio. The very well-known indie producer whose studio it was recorded in walked through during one of those sessions, took one look at the way the drums were miked, and said to my drummer friend, "Jesus. Told you he couldn't record drums for shit."

Fav. story about Jim O'Rourke relates to his 47 minute drone fest Happy Days. Brian as what told me the story described it as three quarters of an hour of "BRMMMMMMMMMMMMMM". A guy he knows met JoR backstage after a local festival:

Guy Brian Knows: "Hello, I'm Simon O'Connor from the Jimmy Cake, it's great to meet you."
JoR: "Hi."
GBK: "I'm a really big fan of yours, particularly the way out stuff, like Happy Days."
JoR: "... Happy Days?"
GBK: "Yeah... you know, it's an album of yours?"
JoR: ".... oh, yeah! BRMMMMMMMMMMMM!"
GBK: "Yeah.. yeah, that's the one."

I think O'Rourke's own records sound nice, but they are extremely tedious to listen to.

and

yeah. he gave a bunch of money to the stormfront white nationalist thing or whatever it's called.

Those are pretty heavy accusations to throw about. Is that bullshit or is there any evidence to substantiate it?

If it's a joke it's not that funny.

(jus' kidding.)

About his early "avant" stuff: interestingly, I find that the best stuff he did back then is the stuff he hates the most. Namely, the guitar improv stuff, esp. on Remove the Need and Tamper. It's pretty original, esp. in a genre (or whatever) where most people seem to only be able to ape Derek Bailey.

I like his early musique concrete, sample/"plunderphonic" and chamber stuff too, but I can see how it's not for everyone. For the sample/"plunderphonic," search out the 10", and turn the bass up!

I MEAN LIKE DUHH!!?!?

Good call.

Uh, what? The first U.S. Maple record sounds great! It's the second one (Sang Phat Editor) that's kind of a snoozer.

I wonder if he knows we dated the same woman once.

that line's so nice, you had to use it twice eh james? ;-)

i still think that derogatis should just chow down on o'rourke. though i do like some of o'rourke's music, if not necessarily his schtick.

the fenn o'berg records are ace and i quite like his solo stuff. he also deserves kudos for getting me interested in sonic youth after many years of meh

This is a perfect example of why wanky record engineers are even worse than wanky musicians. Jim O'Rourke makes drums sound beautiful, in my opinion and the opinion of many of my friends. I always PARTICULARLY notice how great the drums sound. But this dude *knows better* -- he could tell by looking at the mic placement.

What are they like? Do they contain elements of TKWYL or Scend?

(Erf, well, the people I know who know him have nothing but good to say about the guy + I kind of intuitively side with the socially awkward so I'm biased in his favour.)

What's the Mego stuff like?

That sounds really interesting — is that an official release?

the new Archer Prewitt is lovely too, not quite as immediate as Three was, but very nice.

The first reply to this thread is still one of the most LOL things I've ever read on ILX. I wonder whatever happened to resident ILM savant 'd k'...

And "Halfway To A Threeway" is truly one of the most gorgeous songs I've heard.

maybe there's a better thread for that question, but it's a discussion I'd love to have.

PLACEBO EFFECT

JO + 666 = 666

That's garbage! Eureka and Insignificance feature some of the coolest arrangements and performances I can think of in the past 20 years. I know an awful lot of musos who put the man on a pedestal, too.

And JoR was largely responsible for getting Fahey back on the guitar in the mid-90s.

There's an awful lot of misinformed opinions and misinformation in this thread.

Fav. story about Jim O'Rourke relates to his 47 minute drone fest Happy Days. Brian as what told me the story described it as three quarters of an hour of "BRMMMMMMMMMMMMMM". A guy he knows met JoR backstage after a local festival:

Guy Brian Knows: "Hello, I'm Simon O'Connor from the Jimmy Cake, it's great to meet you."
JoR: "Hi."
GBK: "I'm a really big fan of yours, particularly the way out stuff, like Happy Days."
JoR: "... Happy Days?"
GBK: "Yeah... you know, it's an album of yours?"
JoR: ".... oh, yeah! BRMMMMMMMMMMMM!"
GBK: "Yeah.. yeah, that's the one."

Just listened to this album with my mother -- she made it through the 10-11 minutes of acoustic playing, then 5 minutes into the buzzy drone section and she was out.

re: "Happy Days", it's funny how everyone has their tolerance limit for this kind of music. 12 years ago when it came out I rememberbuying it, listening for 20 minutes or so, and turning it off in disgust. Now I could listen to stuff like this all day. my friends won't tolerate it, though...

women of the world take over cause if you don't the world will come to an end

Am I the only one who likes the experimental, avant garde O'Rourke stuff better than his "pop" albums? I mean that stuff's fine but I'd much sooner take his experimental works if forced to choose between the two.

i don't see much of a difference between the "two" tbfh

His pop albums have songs with choruses and orchestration and such, while stuff like Happy Days has no such thing.

HE HAS POP STUFF ADN THEN WEIRD STUFFF! OJGM IM RETARDED

that dichotomy is so stupid, he's doing variations on the same thing no matter what style he uses imo

variations on...music?

I mean I'm not sure what else his experimental stuff and say, 'Something Big' have in common

well when i hear 'happy days' i hear a kind of funny/weird/disturbing 'deconstruction' (sorry) of tony conrad, when i hear 'something big' i hear the same thing wrt bacharach.

i guess i'm being a dick for no good reason. it's totally ok to like JO (lol) in avant mode over JO in pop mode, they are totally different sounding, i just think he ends up doing related things in both.

def don't agree wrt bacharach, but I guess that is a pretty good explanation

(I don't think 'Something Big' goes any deeper than 'cover of a good song that he likes')

i think you're right actually.

I think he applies techniques and textures and rising dynamics and suchlike from his non-pop work to the popsongs (I'm listening to the first half of "Movie On the Way Down" right now), but he's smart enough not to let them get in front. I wouldn't want to have to choose between the pop and nonpop.

one of those songs in the middle of 'eureka' where it sounds like a dreamtime brazilian carpenters something might be a better example than 'something big.' actually i take back 'deconstruction,' that's not really true and kind of insulting.

x-post

i.e. he can be removed and quote-y sometimes but also really funny and weird. kind of impossible to generalize about his stuff which is also one of the reasons i still love it.

i had no idea something big was a bacharach & david tune. thouhgt it was a pastiche!

i do love it though.

I'm listening to a new release of selections from an old improv with Loren Conners called Two Nice Catholic Boys and it is really good. I has been a while since I have tried to listen to any ambient or experimental music so this is pretty astonishing for me to to listen all the way through this and quite enjoy it.

O'Rourke's guitar sounds like the droning on the new Sunn O))) album but there is also some purer sounding guitar melodies that parse through the gruff. These melodies are quaint, pretty, and hearty. That's the best I can describe this album.

Like him, but more as a producer than a composer. Still think "Halfway to a Threeway" is his shining moment. What a beautiful piece.

yeah. he gave a bunch of money to the stormfront white nationalist thing or whatever it's called.

This is a serious charge, from way upthread in 2002. Can't find anything on it via GOOGLE.

I definitely prefer Eureka, Halfway, and Insignificance to anything else just because that style resonates with me the most, and his singing voice is quite wonderful imo

Oooh you know what else is also gorgeous? "Blues Subtitled No Sense Of Wonder" from Camoufleur.

is eureka the one w/ something big on it? thats my favorite o'rourke track by a decent margin altho i think i own a copy of all of those - the frog one and the two with shitty "weird" pastel covers of fat babies - they tend to get really boring really quickly imo

This is a serious charge, from way upthread in 2002. Can't find anything on it via GOOGLE.

― Daniel, Esq., Monday, May 25, 2009 1:35 PM

http://www.freshbytes.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg

i've been enjoying the fenn o'berg reissues i got on mego. they sound very cool in 2009.

is eureka the one w/ something big on it? thats my favorite o'rourke track by a decent margin altho i think i own a copy of all of those - the frog one and the two with shitty "weird" pastel covers of fat babies - they tend to get really boring really quickly imo
― mordor was the place (Lamp), Monday, May 25, 2009 1:41 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

u probably like the artic monkeys or something similar

Jim O'Rourke as a collaborator>>>Jim O'Rourke solo, he does really get the best out of other people.

true but o'rourke collabo <<<< arctic monkeys

truthbomb

xxpost yeah that's pretty otm although a lot of his collabs are still hit-or-miss like everything he does with thurston moore improvising on guitar. him and fennesz and rehberg are great, anything he did with fennesz is good, there was a charizma disc from several years ago with fennesz and werner dafeldecker and some other people that i loved. when he plays with loren mazzacane connors, i feel like it's just two great players that can do no wrong. i also like some of the collabs he did with gunter muller in the 90s.

anyway, i will stan for 'i'm happy and i'm singing...' big time, also still like 'bad timing' and 'halfway...' but i've really cooled on 'eureka.' haven't listened to insignificance in a long time, i bet i'd like it more than i used to .

bad timing also

haha

"94 the long way" is v. v. pretty

A friend of mine told me a year or so ago that part of the reason JOR stopped touring with SY was because he was refusing to return to countries and carrying a big map around with him everywhere and crossing off in BIG RED PEN all the countries (I'm assuming weren't the U.S.) that he'd been to and so saying he didn't need to go back. Is this a load of rubbish? I can't find anything on google about it....

I think that's a half truth, he had already decided to leave and then on the final tour he did the crossing out countries that he'll never return to thing, IIRC.

Cheers. I was hoping the crossing out part was real. I wonder where he'll never return to?

he'll never return to the glory days of Halfway, Insignificance, and Eureka apparently

or even the little bits on the Love Liza soundtrack

so...why did everyone hate jim o'rourke?

probably because he got around

he'll never return to the glory days of Halfway, Insignificance, and Eureka apparently

― CaptainLorax, Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:26 PM (5 years ago)

HE DID! I was wrong. Thank you again Jim O'Rourke :)

yeah I'd put the most recent one up there with those records

Because I asked him for a cigarette at a gig and he said no.

― edmund davie, Sunday, February 2, 2003 1:20 PM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

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