Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2025

Black Crowds=Black Crowes

Stupid phone.

I are an actual HOF voter, and I voted for Bad Company, Mariah Carey, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, Maná, and Soundgarden. They used to send really nice pamphlets in the mail with your ballot, but now you just do it on their website.

I really want Phish to make it because they kinda deserve it, but more important to watch the heads explode.

But I'd vote for Mariah, Joy Division/New Order, OutKast and Soundgarden for sure.

Wow, Maná! That's cool.

Controversies

In 2002, Checker protested outside of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony, over the lack of radio airplay of his hit "The Twist" and his perception that the Hall of Fame had snubbed him. Seymour Stein, president of the Rock Hall's New York chapter and member of the nomination committee, claimed "I think that Chubby is someone who will be considered. He has in certain years."

In 2013, Checker sued HP over a WebOS application using his name. The application, before being pulled in September 2012, was used to unscientifically estimate penis size from shoe size. The district court said that Checker's trademark claim survived HP's motion to dismiss, but his other claims were dismissed per Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.

Maná is almost certainly the first act to be nominated where I'd never even heard of them. Surprised Joe Cocker didn't make it in decades ago.

Just like Foreigner's induction, Bad Company is a way to sneak King Crimson (plus Mott the Hoople and Free) in the back door.

Voting OutKast.

I are an actual HOF voter

You're not getting extra ballots for this

I apologize, btw; "They used to send really nice pamphlets in the mail with your ballot, but now you just do it on their website." is probably the most Bob Lefsetz thing I've ever posted.

this is the weakest crop in a long time

hmm it's not all bad but black crowes and bad company put a bad taste in my mouth

Repeating my post on FB just now:

--

Okay so R&RHOF voters submit ballots electronically now, which means I already got mine, which means I've already voted. As I muttered in the separate thread, a lot of this was ridiculously easy because I quickly figured who I was *not* voting for, and with seven votes that meant I only had to worry about deciding between eight acts. I had six gimmes:

Joy Division/New Order
Soundgarden
OutKast
Mariah Carey
Cyndi Lauper
Maná

That left me to decide between the fake siblings and William Michael Albert Broad. If I had eight votes, no problem no contest, both in. But I had to decide and honestly this was harder than I thought: essentially I had to choose between one of two kinds of 50s/early 60s retrofetishists who are both pretty thrilling at their best and will be played in sports arenas in various ways for a long while to come. Nostalgia played a part for me in the end: ol' Billy I grew up with on the radio/TV where the White Stripes I more admired latterly, and that's always a key distinction. Certainly I would have appreciated submitting a ballot that at least had women in a majority of my votes instead of falling just short, and since I always tend to consider Them Pale Stripes to be more of an art project/Wire type band than neo-Zep or whatever, that absolutely tracks for me too as a plus. (Also, they absolutely get a prize for some of the best long song titles ever, knowing how to structure them and focus them. "Dead Leaves And The Dirty Ground" is almost a short story in and of itself.) But getting back to the retrofetishist point: if one act, however much driven by context at the time in turn, comes off as validating a "If it wasn't recorded in a cardboard closet on a deck that Sam Phillips spat on once is it even REALLL" mindset, I will be more inclined to the other act in his pomp, in the decade he had his biggest hits, going "Fuck yeah I'm not only Elvis, I love dancefloors, synths and drum machines, let's do fucking everything!" At the time Glenn Danzig would have complained and probably did but these days Glenn's off filming shitty self-financed 'erotic' horror westerns -- ask me how I know! -- while Billy just happily keeps on and knows what he's great at. (Plus, if Pat Benatar got in with Neil Giraldo, this absolutely should have been a 'Billy Idol & Steve Stevens' entry; most of their careers have been spent together and Stevens's approach of 'what if Mick Ronson but also lasers' remains fucking awesome; as much as Eddie Van Halen was seen as the pop metal guitarist genius in excelsis for the same run, I'd argue Steve is right there with and maybe in some contexts even more crazy/amazing -- great hooks everywhere and that "Rebel Yell" solo alone blew my mind then and now. In any event, Billy it was. So we'll see what shakes out!)

I saw Black Crowds open for Frightwig, they were ok

anyway i'm voting for outkast. i wanna see the reunion

Cyndi, then OutKast, then (with some distance between them) JD/NO. Maná aside, as I don't know them at all, I either don't like or just don't care about the rest.

OutKast will get in, but they'll send Key & Peele in to accept.

I haven't checked, but while there are some first-time nominees, is this the first time there's been no newly-eligible noms?

This is impossible!!! So many amazing nominees!!!!!!

In 2001, Checker took out a full-page ad in Billboard magazine arguing that he is one of rock and roll's most underappreciated figures.

I'm surprised it took this long for OutKast to get nominated. They're one of three nominees that I would've inducted immediately, along with Joy Division/New Order and the White Stripes. Most of the rest I could make a case for and would have no problem inducting. I'd vote for Cyndi Lauper but it really comes down to one and only one great album for a lot of people, and I remember quite a few commentators saying they were reluctant to vote for her for that reason, as in she had a "moment" and it passed. ("Kinky Boots" alone was a big deal, but I don't think her contributions to musical theater get much consideration.) She was one of the two biggest fan votes by a wide margin last time, and that obviously had a very limited impact.

Also Hank Ballard is in the Hall of Fame, so it's not like "The Twist" has been completely overlooked. (I prefer his version tbh.)

I'm hoping they induct the New York Dolls too. It's possible they're doing a committee selection instead of putting it to a ballot, but ffs, do it while Johansen is still here.

Wow, Maná! That's cool.

Anyone care to quickly summarize their critical standing for the baffled Canadians in this thread? Their RYM scores are not at all impressive.

Anyone care to quickly summarize their critical standing for the baffled Canadians in this thread? Their RYM scores are not at all impressive.

I have provoked great anger in Mexicans and other Latin rock fans in the past by describing them as "the Nickelback of Mexico," but that's kind of who they are, both stylistically (big yarly riff-rock) and commercially (they're huge). They fill stadiums. Their 1992 album ¿Dónde Jugarán Los Niños? is (or was) the best-selling Spanish-language rock album of all time.

I'm hoping they induct the New York Dolls too. It's possible they're doing a committee selection instead of putting it to a ballot, but ffs, do it while Johansen is still here.

― birdistheword, Wednesday, 12 February 2025 17:47 (four minutes ago) link

Given their recent track record (the MC5 for inst), I wouldn't get my hopes up

Thanks for the summary, but Nickelback isn't getting nominated any time soon, so is this just pandering to the Spanish-speaking audience?

In terms of Mexican representation in rock and Latin music, Los Lobos and Rubén Blades would've been far better nominees. Also Willie Colón though I'm not sure how that would go down after his legal fights with Blades.

And yes, I had what happend to the MC5 in mind as well...ugh.

Re: Blades and Colon, I recommend Siembra. Per Wiki:

The album was inducted into the Latin Grammy Hall of Fame in 2007. In 2024, it was ranked in first position on the “Los 600 de Latinoamérica” list compiled by a collective of music journalists, highlighting the top 600 Latin American albums from 1920-2022. The album was ranked number one of the 50 greatest salsa albums of all time by Rolling Stone Magazine in October 2024.

The very vague vibe I got from unperson's post + some googling is we're looking at something like the Mexican U2, who I'm guessing are already in?

Most countries have some huge mainstream rock band that's been around forever and is hated by its country's hipsters, gonna be some work if they all get into the Hall.

I'm not looking forward to seeing every country's version of U2.

In terms of Mexican representation in rock and Latin music, Los Lobos and Rubén Blades would've been far better nominees. Also Willie Colón though I'm not sure how that would go down after his legal fights with Blades.

Rubén Blades is from Panama; Willie Colón is from Puerto Rico; neither of them are rock artists, although someone smart could put together a really cool exhibit for the actual Hall about 1960s Latin bugalu music (part doo-wop, part Cuban son, part rock 'n' roll, part R&B, the precursor to salsa).

I get why Maná is nominated, but I wish it was Café Tacvba getting the nod. (I'd love to see a bunch of '80s, '90s and '00s Latin artists get in: Julieta Venegas, Natalia Lafourcade, Los Fabulosos Cadillacs, Caifanes, Sepultura, Nação Zumbi...)

It's Die Toten Hosen for Germany and Xutos & Pontapés for Portugal if you wanna get a taste of what that would be like btw (both bands have some salvageable stuff in their early years tbc).

If Hip-Hop, R&B and mainstream Pop are "Rock & Roll" I see zero reason why salsa shouldn't be rock & roll too really.

Yes: Joy Division/New Order, Outkast, Mariah Carey.

Tough: Cyndi Lauper's great album was and is huge in every way--album, singles, videos. Peak value off the charts...but a little hesitation because that's pretty much it. But mostly yes.

Sentimental yes: Chubby Checker was huge for a year or two, and I think he's someone who's been lobbying to get in for years (and would be hugely appreciative).

Not my thing, but I guess there's a strong argument for Soundgarden.

I have never heard of Mana.

Just scrolled back and saw Chubby's full-page ad...

Anyone care to quickly summarize their critical standing for the baffled Canadians in this thread? Their RYM scores are not at all impressive.

I don't really know much about Maná from a critical perspective, I just know that they are huge in Latin America and have been around forever. My wife likes their cover of Led Zeppelin's "Fool in the Rain."

Rubén Blades is from Panama; Willie Colón is from Puerto Rico

Yes, that's why I also specified "Latin music" - probably should clarify, I imagine Maná wasn't just selected for their Mexican nationality but also for their popularity in all of Latin America and also to highlight music that has bridged Latin American culture (including that beyond Mexican culture) with rock music. I mentioned Blades, including his work with Colón, because of their stature in salsa music and how those albums made headway in bridging salsa and American popular music, including rock. (Per his Trouser Press entry, Blades is "the first important salsa performer to integrate rock aesthetics into his music.")

I'm guessing none of the tropicalista gang are in? Influential on anglo rock artists AND huge in their own country AND they also bridged Rock music and other styles, should be a no brainer.

XP!

There should be a separate committee like the "Early Influences" one for non-English speaking territories, so you can get Fela, Serge Gainsbourg, Can, YMO, Neu!, Jacques Brel, Jobim, Os Mutantes, Juan Gabriel etc. in.

That would probably make the most sense. They already created that precedent with Kraftwerk being inducted as an "early influence." And I don't Fela getting voted in by ballot even though he's been nominated before, and he SHOULD be in.

I should rephrase that - the "early influences" could be that since they already created that precedent with Kraftwerk being inducted that way.

(Apologies, reading and typing while talking to someone else about something unrelated is not the best idea.)

this is the weakest crop in a long time

― gestures broadly at...everything (voodoo chili), Wednesday, February 12, 2025 11:40 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

bob lefsetz: "My mind is absolutely, positively blown. How did they get it so RIGHT?"

"I, too, now feel like making love."

one of my absolute least favorite songs

Mick Ralphs should be in the HOF...but for a different band.

no vote

I'd also like to see the White Stripes reunion also.

Also also also.

Last time Joy Division/New Order was nominated, Peter Hook said a reunion was possible and he'd be very open to it as a goodwill gesture. So that's three great reunions that could come out of this: The White Stripes, OutKast and New Order.

Also a voter interviewed by NY Mag made a horrible miscalculation, saying he didn't vote for Joy Division/New Order because he thought everyone else would, so as a strategy he pursued less likely winners. None of those people got in either. So much for "strategic" voting.

anyone know what role if any the fan vote plays in who gets picked? (i realize this is a total lmgtfy question but i can't seem to find the answer)

I think, in total, it counts for one "actual" vote.

aha, so basically not at all

POO: Soundgarden

easy yea:
jd no
outkast
white stripes

i would be fine with:
mariah carey: despite being the opposite of rock at times, she has had a long and varied career with enough highlights to merit inclusion.
cyndi, who shone bright for around 2 years, with her unique persona more than her music, despite her music being decent too
billy idol, another representative for the early video stars, who also had a few good songs too
soundgarden, who i respect more than i enjoy listening to, and are the most rock of all in this list

Can’t wait to hear Chubby Checker to do “Stoned in the Bathroom” at the induction ceremony.

I've mentioned this before but I've heard more jazz groups play "Black Hole Sun" than just about any other song from the '90s. Of course Miles Davis did Cyndi's "Time After Time" before that.

All-Time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgGBB0hTqo0

Joy Division/New Order, though I’m really just voting for New Order

Somebody *really* needs to do a bossa nova take on Black Hole Sun, if it hasn't happened already. I'd do it myself if I had the ability.

If I have to pick one here, I'm torn between JD/NO and Outkast, leaning toward the latter. The influence of the former being probably wider, but there is nothing half as "rock and roll" in their whole catalogue as "Gasoline Dreams"

Most countries have some huge mainstream rock band that's been around forever and is hated by its country's hipsters, gonna be some work if they all get into the Hall.

Is there a thread somewhere on this topic? Surely Poland and Indonesia and Peru et al all have their own versions of U2/Nickelback/Bon Jovi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF-wCbBgUGM

hell yes

they kind of messed up the harmonic weirdness and made it too major key though

Yeah, I don't know if that's the best version out there, but I appreciate the attempt

I assumed the Steve and Eydie cover was AI, but no

it was not actually on that album though, that's a shop

Their version is so damn good, and it came out not long after grunge had started to fade

The fact that they have gotten around to Bad Company, who suck, shows they just might as well let everyone in, since everyone is getting in eventually anyway.

For the curious:

Lounge-A-Palooza is a compilation album issued in 1997 by Hollywood Records. Released to capitalize on the 1990s lounge music revival, it features cover versions of songs, including classic lounge hits performed by contemporary artists and 1990s hits covered by lounge singers

Combustible Edison And Esquivel!–Miniskirt
Fastball–This Guy's In Love With You
Ben Folds Five–She Don't Use Jelly
Poe–A Rose Is A Rose
Steve & Eydie–Black Hole Sun
Pizzicato Five–The Girl From Ipanema
Polly Jean Harvey & Eric Drew Feldman–Zaz Turned Blue
Fun Lovin' Criminals–I'm Not In Love
Glen Campbell & Michelle Shocked With Texas Tornados–Wichita Lineman
Edwyn Collins–Witchcraft
Jimmy Scott & Flea–Love Will Keep Us Together
The James Taylor Quartet–Music To Watch Girls By
Cassandra Wilson–The Good Life
Chris Ballew–Robert Goulet (On The River Nile)

The fact that they have gotten around to Bad Company, who suck, shows they just might as well let everyone in, since everyone is getting in eventually anyway.

it would be great if they could get around to Thin Lizzy or Blue Oyster Cult one of these days but I assume at this point they'll never get in. are they going to put Argent in next ahead of them?

bad company wishes they had a banger on the level of "hold your head up"

It's all part of your rock and roll fantasy.

i will yield to no one in how much I love that song but then again i think Bad Company had one song from their self-titled album I kind of like too, if only i could remember the name of that one.

Ben Folds Five–She Don't Use Jelly

Seems like kind of a lateral move, honestly.

OutKast
The White Stripes
Sonic Youth (oh wait)

I feel like they all created fearless unashamed variety while still maintaining authentic, as apposed to sincere, integrity of an esthetic.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/rock-hall-of-fame-fan-vote-results-first-week/

Phish is off to a very strong start after one week of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame fan voting.

The jam band kings have gotten 101,157 fan votes since they were announced as one of 14 nominees for the class of 2025. This is the first time the group has been nominated for the honor.

Billy Idol is in second place with 58,673 votes. Soundgarden is right behind him with 57,084, followed by Cyndi Lauper (50,308), Bad Company (47,582), Joe Cocker (47,004) and Chubby Checker (42,803.)

The Black Crowes lead the back half of the list with (39,184), followed by Mariah Carey (36,876), Outkast (35,563), Oasis (32,445), Joy Division / New Order (31,927), The White Stripes (31,055) and Mexican pop-rockers Mana (12,177.)

Man, who knew there were so many Billy Idol fans? (I actually like Generation X's debut album quite a bit, particularly in its U.S. incarnation, but I never hear anyone mention him IRL.)

I really like two or three Generation X songs, but for me, all those horrible mega-hits negate them.

(And then one line in The Wedding Singer almost redeems them again.)

How are Bad Company in this list instead of almost any 70s hard rock act you care to name? Bet Grand Funk aren't in the Hall of Fame.

I just checked, and

In 2005 Grand Funk Railroad was voted into the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame.[24]

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Fan vote right now

Phish
264,793

Bad Company
205,299

Billy Idol
196,023

Cyndi Lauper
176,388

Soundgarden
175,762

Joe Cocker
171,226

Chubby Checker
150,717

The Black Crowes
126,288

Mariah Carey
112,254

Joy Division + New Order
92,319

The White Stripes
86,674

Outkast
84,586

Oasis
79,454

Maná
29,009

that's....interesting. obviously some of these acts will have done their best to get the fanbase motivated - FB postings or other socials - but I wouldn't think Bad Company would be one of them; and, if not, that's kinda interesting.

Maná ma NAH

Bad Company and Joe Cocker represent the boomer options, one of whom isn't expected at the ceremony.

Putting Maná aside--simply because I don't them, no comment on their viability--you could make a couple of trades on that fast list and, for me, you'd have close to the exact inverse order of who deserves to go in.

"fast list" = fan list

You’ve got to imagine that the age of people who care about voting for the rock ‘n’ roll Hall of Fame skews a bit older, so while bad company has zero social media presence (I have friends with more Instagram followers than they have) they really are the only choice if you’re a certain type of rock dude. The ones that are a bit higher up definitely have a bit more grassroots savvy in terms of getting votes from a fan base that otherwise wouldn’t care at all. Nice to see Cyndi Lauper up there.

Voting Maná because they're the odd ones here.

Everything they did after 1997 is a bit embarrasing tho... the Santana collab was ok.

In terms of Mexican representation in rock and Latin music, Los Lobos and Rubén Blades would've been far better nominees. Also Willie Colón though I'm not sure how that would go down after his legal fights with Blades.

And yes, I had what happend to the MC5 in mind as well...ugh.

― birdistheword

Don't know if I'm misreading here but Los Lobos are from LA (albeit with Mexican heritage), Ruben Blades is from Panama and Willie Colon is from New York (and puerto rican heritage). So none of them count as Mexican representation ... also I wouldn't really count Blades and Colon as rock?

If one were to nominate a latin rock band for this thing I'd definitely start with Soda Stereo.

Oh I kept reading and see unperson already commented a similar post as mine.

I'm not sure I'd say Maná are like the Nickelback equivalent since they were pretty successful and respected for most of the 90's in the latin rock scene... they were heavily involved in some politics in favor of saving turtles and water and environmental stuff so... they're closest equivalent is I'd say... yeah, U2.

Bad Company offers some good "otherwise they won't get in" one-stop shopping, with parts of Mott The Hoople, Free, Spooky Tooth, and King Crimson.

Just like Foreigner's induction, Bad Company is a way to sneak King Crimson (plus Mott the Hoople and Free) in the back door.

― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, February 12, 2025 4:21 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

...but what's the Spooky Tooth connection?

Ariel Bender/Luther Grosvenor

Wait, that's crazy. That's just a Mick Ralphs connection. Disregard.

If we put the emphasis on the "Fame" part of the HoF, it's hard to look past Oasis and Mariah Carey.

Bad Company, Black Crowes, Chubby Checker, Billy Idol, Cyndi Lauper, White Stripes all feel like scraping the bottom of already well represented eras/styles, but maybe it's just me and there's a good case to make.

Phish, Maná, completely unfamiliar with those.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I thought Cyndi Lauper would be up near the top.

I've been voting for her in the fan vote. (It looks like she'll at least get that, though obviously it's of minimal help - she got it last time too and it wasn't enough to get her in.)

NY Mag's annual review with two voters. Glad they're both voting for my three core choices, which again would translate into three potential reunions as well (albeit not Joy Division obviously, just New Order).

I didn't know Oasis were "massively popular in America". They always felt like a one album wonder here.

That's nostalgia goggles talking. They were pretty popular on Alternative Radio and MTV* up through the initial Be Here Now campaign, but the game was up after that.

*"Wonderwall" was also a Top Ten Pop hit, their only crossover to the Top 40 over here.

I looked it up to be sure, but Oasis had three platinum-certified albums in the U.S.: the 4x platinum (What's the Story) Morning Glory? bookended by two single platinum albums. By mid-'90s standards, that's still a home run, but to put it in perspective, there have been some really fucking awful bands from that time who sold a lot more records in the U.S. - do they get a HOF nod for being "massively popular"? (I probably don't want to know.)

But I don't think the HOF should be so U.S. centric - I'm not the biggest Oasis fan and I can think of plenty of reasons not to vote for them, but I wouldn't argue against them simply because their popularity wasn't as big with American audiences.

https://consequence.net/2025/04/phish-win-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-fan-vote/

Phish are notorious for having one of the most dedicated fan bases in music, and that loyalty is on full display as fans turn out in droves to vote the jam band into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. With the deadline now closed, Trey Anastasio and company have officially won the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame fan vote, earning 330,000 ballots—nearly 50,000 more than runner-up Bad Company, who received 281,000.

2025 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Fan Vote Results:

Phish – 330,000
Bad Company – 281,000
Billy Idol – 260,500
Cyndi Lauper – 237,000
Joe Cocker – 234,000
Soundgarden – 233,000
Chubby Checker – 203,000
The Black Crowes – 165,200
Mariah Carey – 138,000
Joy Division + New Order – 120,500
The White Stripes – 110,500
Outkast – 108,000
Oasis – 99,500
Mana – 34,500

Fortunately, the cumulative fan vote only counts as one vote towards potential admission, so there's still hope.

oasis lol

Help me with my accelerationist ballot:

- Mariah Carey
- Outkast
- Mana

are the only locks. I need two more. Everyone else is, even if terrible, somewhat justifiable.

The NY Mag anonymous voter articles will never not be funny to me. I'd love to meet Voter 2.

Voter 2: I’m a huge fan. Yes, she’s closely associated with Christmas, but people forget how massive she was in the ’90s and early aughts. She’s in the Songwriters Hall of Fame. When you’re thinking about mixing pop, hip-hop, soul, and R&B, she excelled at it all.

Voter 2: I’m not very familiar with them. Still, I’m happy the Rock Hall nominated Maná. When we talk about popular music, sometimes we get stuck in certain countries. I applaud them for saying, “No, this is a rock band who’s influential around the world.”

Voter 2: I absolutely voted for OutKast. I was a bit disappointed there was only one hip-hop artist on the ballot again this year because when you only have one, it almost looks like they’re the token nominee. But when you’re talking about Atlanta hip-hop and southern hip-hop, the influence is incalculable. We’ve had a lot of hip-hop inducted from the East and West Coasts. Making sure southern hip-hop is represented is important because it’s such a dominant force.

Voter 2: Cyndi was No. 1 for me on this ballot. I was upset a few years ago when she didn’t get in. Everyone associates her with the ’80s and her first record, but she’s so much more than that. She writes her own songs and has written so many beautiful ones about important topics like abortion. She’s a vocalist with a singular voice. You can’t look at the ’80s without her. She paved the way for any female artist who wants to carve out their own path and not follow convention. I could talk for hours about Cyndi. It’s a capital, big check-mark “yes.”

She writes her own songs and has written so many beautiful ones about important topics like abortion.

Voter 2 is pretty dead-on. I voted for three of those four. (I do not like OutKast.)

Why do you hate music?

Isn't Kinky Boots a really big deal in the musical theater world? I'm not sure how voters would weigh that if they're aware of it, but I'm surprised neither voter brought it up. It's probably the most popular work Lauper's done after She's So Unusual.

Anyway, she may get in "eventually," but given why she's doing her farewell tour (i.e. she wants to call it a day before age really catches up to her voice), it would be a lot better to induct her now than later. I hope Soundgarden and Joe Cocker get in eventually, but considering that Cornell and Cocker are now deceased, it already feels like it's too late.

Would be one for ages if OutKast, the New Order line-up with Peter Hook and the White Stripes all reunited and performed at the ceremony. The New Order reunion with Hook looks less likely after some recent nasty remarks from Hook, but regardless, it's way overdue and they're already getting up there in years.

How many genuinely surprising or moving reunions have occurred at the Rock Hall ceremonies over the years, though?

(answers mentioning Mike Love do not count)

VU is one, for sure

Not exactly surprising, but it looks like Simon & Garfunkel feuded on and off through the '80s, but they played together in 1990 when they went in.

In 1990, Simon and Garfunkel were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Garfunkel thanked Simon, calling him "the person who most enriched my life by putting those songs through me"; Simon responded, "Arthur and I agree about almost nothing. But it's true, I have enriched his life quite a bit." After performing three songs, the duo left without speaking.

Talking Heads, probably the last time they'll actually perform together.

The original Byrds (five founding members) gave their last performance at their induction, singing "Turn! Turn! Turn!" the same night the Gulf War officially began.

Of course RS has a rundown of every reunion, good and bad.

Byrds did some new tracks for that box set that the core band did to get the name back. I always thought the new tune they did "Love That Never Dies" was really good. I remember playing that one on my college radio show back in the day.

McGuinn and Hillman did a Sweet Heart of the Rodeo tour with Marty Stuart and the Fabulous Superlatives and the stuff they filmed of them playing live for the RFD Network (!) is really good, those guys never lost their singing voices and it is a really crack band with them.

I saw the Sweetheart tour with Marty Stuart. First time seeing anything Byrds-related and it was great.

less likely after some recent nasty remarks from Hook

compared to…?

...the last time they were nominated, which was two years ago.

Peter Hook says Rock & Roll Hall of Fame nomination could be “olive branch” amid New Order row

Hook: “It will be a difficult awards ceremony if we get there, but as my wife said we’ve got to rise above these things… and be nice and be courteous and think the best.

Also forgot, a few noteworthy reunions:

The full classic line-up for Blondie as well as founding member Gary Valentine (who left after the debut album). Actually a bad reunion given that the two members who sued Debbie and Clem complained onstage that they weren't allowed to play with the band, but it was memorable!

R.E.M. hadn't split yet but they reunited with Bill Berry, and even though they've "reunited" for several other one-off occasions, I think there's only 2 or 3 instances where Berry sat behind a full drum kit and they played a full-blown rock number. (At their last reunion, it was a stripped down acoustic version of "Losing My Religion.")

And Tom Petty welcoming back Howie Epstein. It was the last time he'd appear with them, and the only instance where the entire band past and present, including original bassist Ron Blair and Stan Lynch's replacement Steve Ferrone, were all together. Lynch later wrote how shocked he was to see Epstein so emaciated.

And the inductees are: Bad Company (ha!), Chubby Checker (ugh), Joe Cocker (fine), Cyndi Lauper (yay!), OutKast (fine), Soundgarden (yay!), and the White Stripes (fine).

Salt 'n' Pepa and Warren Zevon are in as Musical Influences.

Thom Bell, Nicky Hopkins and Carol Kaye are in for Musical Excellence.

Lenny Waronker wins the Ahmet Ertegun Award.

Feels like the last boomer hurrah (I hope).

Indeed. At least Phish didn't make it. Guess the New Yorker's editors don't have the pull they thought they did.

lol bad company

Maybe internet sleuths will finally to get to the bottom of case of the guy Bad Company and/or their crew killed in the mid-'70s.

Is Zevon truly thought of as an “influential” artist, or did they just kind of choose that as a way to get him in? (This isn’t shade, btw)

Bad fucking Company but not Joy Division or New Order. JFC

Chubby Checker (ugh)

In a misplaced display of musical integrity at the Rock Hall induction, Chubby decides to sing a Chris Cornell medley instead of "The Twist"; then claims Joe's award, calling himself "Chubby Cocker"

Feels like the last boomer hurrah (I hope)

Not while the Lemon Pipers still walk the earth unheralded

Is Zevon truly thought of as an “influential” artist

I guess for "influential" read "well-respected by better-known peers, held in high esteem by critics".

Bad fucking Company but not Joy Division

The latter would be a shoe-in had they stuck to their original name, Sad Company

It’s because they have Nazi names, isn’t it? ISN’T IT???

j/k

No disrespect to the talented Ms Lauper, but her getting in and Mariah not is stupid.

All disrespect to Bad Company, but them and not Phish is fucking insane.

Happy for Soundgarden though.

Bad fucking Company but not Joy Division

Maybe someone can convince Paul Rodgers to sing "Transmission" at the ceremony.

Happy for Mick Ralphs but it was for the wrong band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMOWrRZ0HA

Sad Company

This was a fantastic joke!

On a positive note, Joe Cocker, Cyndi Lauper, OutKast and the White Stripes are solid picks. I was voting for all of them, though it figures the one (or really two) I was rooting for the most didn’t get in,

Salt 'n' Pepa and Warren Zevon, Thom Bell, Nicky Hopkins and Carol Kaye are worthy but too many of them are dead - I mean, why wait until they can no longer enjoy the moment?

Lenny Waronker deserves it too. One of the good execs of the record industry’s heyday.

how many hall of fame acts have eponymous songs? bo diddley, bad co. . . .

I voted Soundgarden and glad they are going in. Too bad Chris Cornell is no longer with us, what is voice.

I’m happy about Salt ‘n’ Pepa, I think that’s great…

how many hall of fame acts have eponymous songs?

Between Bad Company and Judas Priest, they’ll now have (at least?) two acts whose names appear in Dylan lyrics.

Black Sabbath

I mostly think Bad Company is meh and Paul Rodgers can be a bore, but also "Feel Like Makin' Love" is an all-timer. That's probably 50 percent of why they're getting in.

"Hard rock's quintessential supergroup, Bad Company featured some of the most highly skilled musicians in 1970s rock & roll," per the HOF. Jesus, why not induct Blind Faith? At least they have TWO songs I'd want to play again.

Good for Chubby Checker--he's underrated (not just one great song but a few), and he's someone who will actually appreciate the honour. "The Twist" wasn't "Johnny B. Goode" or "Anarchy in the U.K." or anything, but it did cause a commotion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM6MxmaT6fo

some people might consider getting bad company'd a badge of honor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcJ0EdH8To8

https://soundcloud.com/robinbrevard-522431146/replacements-with-alex-chilton-cant-get-enough-of-your-love-live-jan-1985

I'm ok with those, except Bad Company. Mariah and Oasis will get in later, no doubt.

Of the "big 4" Seattle bands, only Alice In Chains is not inducted yet - I guess they're next in line.

Good for Chubby Checker--he's underrated (not just one great song but a few), and he's someone who will actually appreciate the honour. "The Twist" wasn't "Johnny B. Goode" or "Anarchy in the U.K." or anything, but it did cause a commotion.

When I was getting into 50's and 60's pop he was viewed as a Pat Boone figure, an attempt to defang the twist as sung by Hank Ballard.

My understanding is that he’s also been shamelessly campaigning for this for years

“feel like making love” is one of the very worst classic rock radio staples. disagree with me? well, then you agree with kid rock whose somehow even worse version charted on the mainstream rock chart in 2003

I'm reminded of this bit from Marlon Brando's 1978 interview for Playboy:

Playboy: Plenty of actors today bow to you as a giant [...]

Brando: I don't understand what relevance that has. Chubby Checker was the giant among twisters.

Bad Co’s “Feel Like Making Love” blows.

Roberta Flack’s “Feel like Making Love” is sublime.

kind of insane that Mariah didn't make it in. I know there are stodgy voters who won't vote for her bc she isn't "rock and roll," but when Madonna, Whitney Houston, and Mary J..Blige are already in, what are we doing here?

seriously, she successfully reinvented herself more frequently than anyone who did make it, easily.

Bad Company was basically the Bon Jovi of the '70s.

My opinion on Bad Company shifted a bit when at a neighborhood Memorial Day cookout circa 2011, a fifteen year old neighbor provided musical entertainment which included his rendition of "Feel LIke Makin' Love" and later a workout on his sitar. Not sure if it was specifically an evening raga.

Jesus, why not induct Blind Faith?

This would also give Clapton his fourth entry into the hall, definitely attracting some voters.

how many hall of fame acts have eponymous songs?

If we discount "We are the Clash", "My name is Prince", "Public Enemy No. 1" and "Carly Fucking Simon", at a stretch you could include "R.A.M.O.N.E.S.", a bonus track on their last album, originally written by Motörhead.

Bad company, wow. I think in terms of artistic accomplishment, and even lasting cultural relevance, this is a complete zero. I understand that the standards of the Hall are such that bands like Blue Oyster Cult have too much personality and good tunes to be allowed in but come on now.

Bad Company had the Lefsetz contingent behind them. Butt Rock representing!

Chubby Checker was seriously hamstrung for years and while the Cameo-Parkway catalogue was locked up. If you listen to one of his (now-plentiful) hits comps, you'll discover that in his heyday he was a pretty tough Pop Soul singer, working with Don Covay and Gamble/Huff in their early days. He really held it down between '60-'65.

Jesus, why not induct Blind Faith?

I like them, but their entire official discography consists of six songs. It would be like inducting M|A|R|R|S.

By my count, 13 performers from Woodstock are now in the Hall. None of the other performers at the festival have even been nominated. Is it past the point where we might see Blood Sweat and Tears, Canned Heat, Johnny Winter or Country Joe & The Fish even get a nomination? I guess none of them even have the fame of Joe Cocker.

...though I'd say they're all better-known even in 2025 than Paul Butterfield.

Bad Company was basically the Bon Jovi of the '70s.

For all their mediocrity compared to the giants of their genre, Mötley Crüe and Poison surely had more relevance and durability. Bad Company feels more like Damn Yankees.

OK, let's settle on Winger

Maybe mentioned, but I was shocked at how popular Bad Company actually was in the '70s. They were signed to Swan Song, Zeppelin's vanity imprint, and were being groomed as their successors. But yeah, in terms of sales and quality, Poison is probably a better comparison. I'm surprised no one from Bad Company was in Damn Yankees.

Happy about outkast. Have no words for bad company winning over joy division. The latter are one of the most influential bands of all time.

I assumed they had been inducted long ago.

Bad Company was very popular, but artistically speaking they were replacement-level. I like several songs from each of their first three albums, but they don't have a single front-to-back good album.

Chubby Checker — whose attempted rehabilitation in this thread strikes me as frankly bizarre — was a replacement-level R&B singer (and I mean that literally; Dick Clark hired him to record a version of "The Twist" because he couldn't book Hank Ballard on American Bandstand) who had a fluke hit that he managed to turn into a decades-long career as a nostalgia act.

artistically speaking they were replacement-level

Their gimmick was not having a gimmick, they were supposed to be relatively "adult", "soulful" and "tasteful" hard rock in comparison to their mid-70s competition.

The first Bad Co. album is still to this day a Classic Rock radio staple generating airplay on par with the first Cars and Van Halen albums, not to mention warhorses like Zep IV, Dark Side etc.

xp They got in before The Replacements…

xp that is weird i cannot recall a single one by name except the (ponderous, painful) eponymous title track

Their gimmick was not having a gimmick, they were supposed to be relatively "adult", "soulful" and "tasteful" hard rock in comparison to their mid-70s competition.

Side A:

1. "Can't Get Enough" (the one where he says he "can't get enough" and isn't Barry White)
2. "Rock Steady" (the one where he says he's "movin' Rock Steady!" and isn't Aretha Franklin)
3. "Ready for Love" (beefy remake of the Mott song)
4. "Don't Let Me Down" (the one where he says "Don't Let Me Down" and isn't John Lennon)

Side B:

5. "Bad Company" (the one where he says he's "Bad Company!" and isn't Jeff Bridges)
6. "The Way I Choose" (the one where he says...I don't know this one)
7. "Movin' On" (the one where he's "Movin' On" but not at a Rock Steady fashion and also isn't Merle Haggard)
8. "Seagull" (ballad about birds and shit without any Jonathan Livingston qualification and isn't Neil Diamond)

Tbh I thought a couple of their second album hits where on the debut.

I'm glad to see Chubby Checker there mostly because he does seem like one of the few remaining folks out there who really, really wanted to get in. Whether he deserves to is another issue. It does seem weird to do it now - do people under 35 know what "The Twist" is? Do people over 35 know he's still alive? I can at least confirm that both his limbo songs are still played at roller rinks :)

"the twist" is the thing peggy olson did in that one early-ish episode of mad men

Speaking of the second Bad Co. album, "Shooting Star" is one of the first earnest, non-love song Power Ballads.

The thing about Bad Company is they just aren’t a fun band, it’s hard to get remotely within a time zone of the zip code of being excited about them. When I consider that blue oyster cult, one of the true great rock bands of the 1970s, with actually thrilling radio hits, is sitting out there while a band that sounds exactly like the cover of their debut album looks glides on in easily.

I don’t even think that they’re particularly bad, they really are just replacement level

Has any inductee died between the announcement and the ceremony? I thought of Ray Thomas, but in fact he died shortly before the announcement that the Moody Blues were being inducted.

I'm surprised White Stripes got in but Joy Division/New Order didn't. They've been eligible for much longer and New Order had more commercial and critical success and influence than the White Stripes didn't they ?
I'm not mad at them getting in, I just don't get the rush.

XP Dusty Springfield, IIRC. Maybe Sterling Morrison?

I don’t know, the white stripes seem custom-built for this voting bloc. JD/NO are a much tougher nut to crack.

must once again ask, where tf is thin lizzy

I guess Gen X gets a lot more overlooked. I mean The B-52's haven't even been nominated ever yet.

Bad Company's nearest contemporary analog is Bob Seger, I think -- this is music to listen to while you're fixing a car, and later when you're drinking beers out of a cooler in the trunk of the car. I'd only salvage, like, four of their greatest hits ("Bad Company," "Good Lovin Gone Bad," "Honey Child," and "Rock and Roll Fantasy"), a much worse track record than Seger's, but I mean...that's more songs than I'd give Chubby Checker. I think marking them as for the Lefsetz contingent is right, because Lefsetz at the Bad Company show in '75 telling everybody that THIS is the REAL MUSIC is a very believable image, but I think the Lefsetz of today will say "nobody actually cares about Bad Company."

Congrats, Chubby!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzgVI9lv7d8

XP Lefsetz saw them with Rich Robinson filling in for Ralphs a few years ago and posted something like they're the "best band people don't care about".

Jesus Christ, you guys are really hard on BadCo! I can't help but really like 'em! I Would only suggest that the Paul Rodgers band nominated and inducted is like on the second Miles Davis Quintet/ Trout Mask-era Beefheart level compared to the 80s BadCo, which really is the worst corporate radio-ready slop in the history of the multiverse.

Hank Ballard's "Twist" is fine; Chubby Checker's is better. I'd say the first RS Illustrated History had it right: "Chubby Checker's cover of this song, not as nicely sung but more danceably produced and tirelessly promoted, achieved the unique feat of being Number One on the pop charts two separate times, more than a year apart." Ballard's original just doesn't have as much presence. (On the compilation I have, I gravitated more to some of his doo-wop, like "Teardrops on Your Letter.")

Bad Company was unavoidable if you grew up with classic rock radio in the '90s

You know what was easily avoidable? All of their albums.

XP Lefsetz saw them with Rich Robinson filling in for Ralphs a few years ago and posted something like they're the "best band people don't care about".

Bad Company a distinct step down from ALL of the members' previous bands - Free, Mott the Hoople and King Crimson. Basically a hard rock equivalent to Peter Frampton. And I used to like them! Not so much these days.

appreciate that half the bad company songs i can name (shooting star + r&r fantasy) are about 'being a rock star'

incredible range

Hank Ballard's "Twist" is fine; Chubby Checker's is better. I'd say the first RS Illustrated History had it right: "Chubby Checker's cover of this song, not as nicely sung but more danceably produced and tirelessly promoted, achieved the unique feat of being Number One on the pop charts two separate times, more than a year apart." Ballard's original just doesn't have as much presence. (On the compilation I have, I gravitated more to some of his doo-wop, like "Teardrops on Your Letter.")

Just gave both a spin to refresh my memory and what sticks out to me is how similar they sound, Ballard a lot more teenybopper than I remembered him. Pretty sure "tirelessly promoted" in that RS guide is supposed to be code for payola.

Bad Company was basically the Bon Jovi of the '70s.

Both had songs about being cowboys/gunfighters.

Pretty sure "tirelessly promoted" in that RS guide is supposed to be code for payola.

When does Morris Levy get his Ahmet Ertegun Award?

You know what was easily avoidable? All of their albums.

Say you never looked at a $1 vinyl bin in the '90s without saying "I never looked at a $1 vinyl bin in the '90s".

Pretty sure "tirelessly promoted" in that RS guide is supposed to be code for payola.

Probably, yes--and guessing Philadelphia-based Dick Clark had a major hand in that.

Clark goosed the success of many Cameo-Parkway artists when Bandstand was still shot in Philly.

Say you never looked at a $1 vinyl bin in the '90s without saying "I never looked at a $1 vinyl bin in the '90s".

I think the point was that you didn't have to listen to them, unless you got one of those record stores that forced Bad Company on you at gunpoint.

(The single greatest twist song, by the way--unless I'm forgetting something obvious--is Joey Dee & the Starliters' "Peppermint Twist." I hope that's been inducted as a song...if such a category exists.)

I'm sure Joy Division/New Order will get in some day, just like the Scorpions, Alice In Chains and Motörhead feel like inevitable choices, they just spread em out.

Piece by Rob Sheffield in RS today about the regrettable Joy Division/New Order omission, so I'm guessing that will clear a path for next year.

Has any inductee died between the announcement and the ceremony? I thought of Ray Thomas, but in fact he died shortly before the announcement that the Moody Blues were being inducted.

Happened last year with Dennis Thompson, the last surviving member of the MC5.

Cyndi fucking rules, nice to see this today

Bad Company was unavoidable if you grew up with classic rock radio in the '90s

I've rarely listened to classic rock radio and can't name a single song by them.

You know what was easily avoidable? All of their albums.

LOL. Honestly, they were so reviled for so long, if anyone mentioned them, it was to insult another band. Like Marc Maron dismissing Pearl Jam with "great, Bad Company is back together." (I actually like Pearl Jam.) I kind of enjoy "Can't Get Enough" after hearing the Replacements covering it with Alex Chilton.

Agreed about "Peppermint Twist." If the twist is SOOO important that Chubby Checker needs to get inducted, they should at least induct "Peppermint Twist" in that one-hit-wonder category that's been dormant for a while now. A much better record and it even knocked Checker's record out of the #1 spot on the Billboard charts.

I've rarely listened to classic rock radio and can't name a single song by them.

Here's a hint: "B*d C*mp*n*"

So they do have a category then? For me, that'd be where 97% of best stories are. (Yes, Joey Dee knocked out Chubby second time around.)

I'm going to solve the puzzle....Bid Campona!

And yes, there is - it was active for three consecutive years, but since then NOTHING:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame_inductees#Singles

(Not that it needs to be debunked any more--I think that's been accomplished by now--but a look at 1962's #1s gives lie to the old 1960-63 wasteland theory. Half of them are great.)

"The Letter" by the Box Tops is in, but they need to induct Alex Chilton already (or really Big Star).

I never knew that Clyde McPhatter got in for his solo career the year before The Drifters did.

I'm not sure I'd induct him as a solo act, but Deep Sea Ball: The Best of Clyde McPhatter by Clyde McPhatter is excellent, at minimum a solid A collection, and at least a few of those singles were every bit as great as the Drifters' best records.

Forgot about the Dominoes (featuring Clyde McPhatter)...that's some great stuff that deserves to be much better-known. So yeah, I'd induct him on his own just to cover everything.

Think I'd give the edge to "A Lover's Question" and "Treasure of Love" over his Drifters work.

Also surprised that Mitch Ryder & The Detroit Wheels aren't in the HOF. That feels like the kind of act that would totally get inducted in the Jann Wenner era. (They're honestly great, I'm just saying I didn't expect Wenner & Co. to overlook them since it plays to their taste.)

Yeah, it's one of my all-time favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAE0ouWc7pY

Re: McPhatter, anything to those bisexuality rumors? Keep seeing that mentioned here and there, but never anything concrete...

Nothing about his personal life on Wikipedia. But Jesus, what a sad ending (which I didn't know):

McPhatter returned to the U.S. in 1970, making a few appearances in rock-and-roll revival tours, but lived mostly as a recluse. Hopes for a major comeback with a Decca album were crushed on June 13, 1972, when he died in his sleep at the age of 39, of complications of heart, liver, and kidney disease, brought on by alcohol abuse – behavior fueled by a failed career and resentment he harbored towards the fans he felt deserted him.[15] In his interview with journalist Marcia Vance, McPhatter said, "I have no fans." He died at 1165 East 229th Street, in the Bronx, New York, where he had been living with Bertha M. Reid. They were traveling together as he tried to make a comeback.

"I have no fans."

Awful.

If he was alive and well, I could see a Drifters reunion with McPhatter AND King being an enormous deal in 1974 thanks to the nostalgia craze fueled by American Graffiti.

Hiro Yamamoto is getting inducted too - first Asian American in the HOF?

eddie and alex van halen

i just had the sad realization the first major artist i ever saw was when my parent's took me to see chubby checker performing at famed confederate monument stone mountain.

Kim Thayil's parents are from India as well, Kirk Hammett's mother is Filipino.

I never particularly cared about or for the White Stripes ... I appreciate them much more now than I did back then. So I don't really know all the backstory.

But it makes me a little sad that Meg wasn't there for this. She should do what she wants, of course, but presumably that means she either didn't want to, or she can't. Either way, that seems like a bummer.

The big induction ceremony thingy was last night, to be clear. Should've mentioned that.

Jack was gracious toward her, of course.

Agree. Also Twenty-One Pilots seemed a weird/dumb choice to perform for them but maybe thats just me being old man yelling at clouds etc.

Soundgarden’s induction was heavy w the death of Cornell, it made me way more emotional than I was prepared for. I was fully sobbing by the end.

Carrey’s speech felt maybe too Cornell-centric and didnt really say much about the band exactly? idk I didnt really like it though i know he was trying to be heartfelt.

Cornell’s daughter’s speech was v moving though and she sang beautifully, i thought.

You were probably wondering what Dennis DeYoung has to say about the hallowed Hall.

https://nypost.com/2025/11/16/entertainment/styxs-dennis-deyoung-slams-shameful-rock-amp-roll-hall-of-fame/

(No, I wasn't either)

I think his band should go in the Prom Hall of Fame (or at least the Fictional-Proms Hall of Fame) for "Come Sail Away" in The Virgin Suicides and Freaks and Geeks. But that's about it.

His specific beef there appears to be that if you give awards to older musicians, they may not be in physical shape to perform at the time of their induction (in this case, Paul Rodgers).

But here's the thing: the idea of a Hall of fame is that it's for lifetime achievement. LOTS of the honorees are going to be older, or even - get this - dead.

And when you think about it, this is kinda how it should be. The baseball hall of fame doesn't expect that the honorees are going to play a full pro-level game, for they?

(Pause for a moment to think about whether it would be good or bad to do exactly that in various realms of human endeavor, and whether it would potentially be ghoulish, like honoring Muhammad Ali by making him get in the ring one last time.)

Anyway so Dennis would have us put a rush order on inducting musicians whose health may fail in the near future, which is just kinda a dumb factor to consider. By that logic a whole lot more old Motown cats should have had their nominations greenlit.

The idea that inductees have not just a right but an obligation to be seen performing at this stage in their careers is rather bonkers. Millions of people got to see Paul live in Bad Company etc.; dude fronted Queen on tour. He's had plenty of stage time, jeez. It's not like he's been deprived.

Also lulz at a quote that DeYoung was himself never getting in, so anything he said would "sound like sour grapes" and I'm like yeah too late

That actually is a big issue with the Baseball HOF now, not putting in someone posthumously who was deserving all along. It may have started with Ron Santo, I don't know. There was a lot of sentiment on Dave Parker's side last year because of that--he died after being voted in but before induction day. With Parker, I think it tipped the scales; he was right on the fence otherwise.

Maybe the whole premise is flawed

/trenchant

I think making someone wait is worse in baseball. You retire around 40, wait five years to go on the ballot, then you used to wait another 15 years sometimes (now 10) if you kept falling short. And you're retired--you're not playing, and every you're reminded you again fell short (but drew enough support to go though it all again next year). A musician is very likely still active. You become eligible 25 years after your first album...so you're probably not thinking about it a whole lot for those 25 years. If you don't get in, you drop off the ballot for a few years. (I've never understood how that works.) You're not being reminded of it every single year. And, again, you're probably still a working musician; you go on doing what you've always done.

the recent documentary about Ozzy's final years detailed how hard it was for him to get to his solo induction (less than a year before his death) and Sharon lamenting how they make artists wait so long. obviously Ozzy was already in with Sabbath, but I thought it was a fair point, solo Ozzy had been eligible for over 20 years, and it's not like he just suddenly seemed worthy in 2024.

yeah it’s a good point