Stephen Malkmus vs Dan Bejar

Bejar without hesitation

SM, fivefold

*bites nails*

i'm also on team bejar

Malkmus by a country mile

malkmus voters share a post-pavement song that's like incontrovertible proof he deserves the win. he makes me cringe tbh but i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the purposes of this poll.

I got nothin, he's coasting on Pavement for me. I'm sure Raymond can recommend a few things. I just can't stand Bejar! It's personal I think, I blame ILM. Just needlessly verbose indie fluff, but SSW stuff bores me esp when crossed with indie. I want NOIZE which Pavement delivered in spades.

not sure that’s a fair framework since he has about 100 classic songs from the pavement era alone

my one post-Pavement Malkmus experience was seeing him do an endearing, half-assed solo set based on loops and shit, as an opener for Ann Magnuson & The Bongwater Experience, which fucking ruled. He came out at the encore to help sing "You Don't Love Me Yet", see this is another thing I have never heard of Bejar doing a cover of any sort or nodding to the past in any way, which also leaves me cold.

Bejar folks, gimme a stone cold killer song under 3 minutes that's catchy and not slow?

Brevity isn't really Bejar's thing, but excluding the length requirement, "The Sublimation Hour," "Your Blood," "Destroyer's The Temple," "The Space Race" (all pre-Kaputt and all stone cold killer songs)

ok fair enough. pavement isn't excluded here. i've listened to a lot more pavement but they also make me cringe. bejar's full-band arrangements are just ... so much more my cup of tea. maybe i like the touchpoints more (bowie and glam, dylan, van morrison) idk. i just think they're so much more interesting. the funny stuff is funnier, the emotional heft is realer.

anyway i think it makes some sense to compare them. both their lyrics and their music. i think they both tow a line between humor and seriousness. the songs tend to amble and shamble and sort of take shape in weird progressive ways.

xp

this is an early destroyer jam with some of my favorite lines - "farrar, straus & giroux (sea of tears)". i think he really evolved as a songwriter though. now that i listen to it for the first time in years i realize it sounds A LOT like "range life". paul mentions some other great ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o5-_7NF1iQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o5-_7NF1iQ

whoops sorry for the double post

now that i'm thinking more about this i think bejar is on a completely different level when it comes to writing lyrics. he's actually aiming for poetry and art. he doesn't always hit but when he does it's amazing. malkmus is good at sounding cute, that's all. so vapid.

man I love the new Bejar album a lot, a whole whole lot -- and my favorites among his "mature" I guess catalogue -- Your Blue & Trouble in Dreams -- are for me big touchstones, but when I hit play on those Streethawk tunes above, man do I wish he hadn't fallen in love with vocal reverb and grand visions. We all gotta grow, if he'd just done that it would have gotten old, but Thief and Streethawk for me are very special records. Some of that is down to who & where I was at the time, but there's something winning for me in the combination of giant ambition and scaled-back means.

still a Malkmus vote here, leaving Pavement aside, whose work I know less well than most other people of my scene. But the Malkmus solo debut is a flat out masterpiece, and the rest of the run with the Jicks, I just love those records. Any time I play one song off em I just wanna let the record play through. I think the point of comparison is really that Bejar accepts his own bookishness and Malkmus is severely conflicted about his. I like little better than a deeply conflicted intellectual.

malkmus is good at sounding cute, that's all. so vapid.

I think this is absolutely false, btw - they are coming from different ideas about poetry. Malkmus is an American lit guy. Bejar is incredibly European.

bejar has higher highs and has definitely been stronger for the past 15 years but malkmus has had a better career overall, the only of albums his i don't really care for are mirror traffic and groove denied. pavement were pretty good and the jicks were even better

I mean at the current moment in time I would feel slightly more enthusiastic about checking out a new Bejar album than a new Malkmus album and that’s been true for a minute, however there’s no denying that Malkmus has made more music that has been a bigger part of my life over the years.

Importance? Malkmus. Cumulative good song output? Bejar all day.

Dan gets extra points for being great no matter who is backing him. Also I think you lose integrity points every time you embark on a reunion tour.

good litmus test = solo acoustic performances

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpi9cAmnfo

vs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDPNeZ2dAI-

i don't think solo acoustic performances do either of them any favours

The songs stand plain

malkmus is good at sounding cute, that's all. so vapid.
I think this is absolutely false, btw - they are coming from different ideas about poetry. Malkmus is an American lit guy. Bejar is incredibly European.

― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, May 16, 2025 6:53 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yesss

Except Dan Bejar Canadian.

if this poll is just their body of musical work: Malkmus

If this poll is just them as a human: Bejar

I’m going with SM on general principle. Bejar I’ve only experienced as a member of New Pornographers (he was ok there but not, like, “this person is my personal pantheon” which SM is)

I’m going with SM on general principle. Bejar I’ve only experienced as a member of New Pornographers (he was ok there but not, like, “this person is my personal pantheon” which SM is)

how are you on this board and have never listened to destroyer

Bejar has mentioned pavement as an influence if that matters at all

I think this is a sweet late-career Malkmus song (Amberjack, from 2020):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN9KmIgK9ak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PSlDdXRMo

my favourites are when the jicks get really noodley

bejar but i like post-pavement malkmus plenty too

Neither one of these guys seem like they'd be fun to hang out with. Voted for Malkmus only because of PAVEMENT. Would have voted Gary Young over Bejar. Nothing against Destroyer. I've heard plenty of their stuff. Maybe a little too verbose/literate at times for me.

I keep my distance from both men these days: I gorged on Pavement in my '20s and love the Malkmus debut, while Destroyer albums boast two or three bits of synthy rumination per album before I tune out. I can't stand Bejar in The New Pornos, though.

Poor Stephen, being forced into this fight, he didn’t deserve this!

Poor Stephen, being forced into this fight, he didn’t deserve this!

Bejar is/was the third-best songwriter in the New Pornographers, imo. I know many won't agree.

and he still wasn't George Harrison

Weird to hear anybody describe Bejar’s songwriting as “European”. Who do you mean? Jacques Brel? George Aznavour? Serge Gainsbourg? I kinda get it, if so.

Bejar has always struck me as being quintessentially Canadian, like a mashup of Leonard Cohen and SCTV (or Ken Finkleman, Don McKellar et al.)

Bejar for me. He's had an amazing run of albums since City of Daughters - I can listen to any of those albums and have a good time.

Neither one of these guys seem like they'd be fun to hang out with.

Bejar is in fact the best hang, just mellow and witty and fun. Can't speak to SM.

Weird to hear anybody describe Bejar’s songwriting as “European”. Who do you mean? Jacques Brel? George Aznavour? Serge Gainsbourg? I kinda get it, if so.

well, I meant more in terms of his poetry -- malkmus is a confirmed ashbery stan, I'm sure dan likes ashbery too but his writing is much more like Spanish poets & novelists, all recursive self-reference & and layers of affect. Malkmus writes like a guy who was bound for grad school. (I like both, mind, but I think Malkmus is at his best when he finds a spot in between arch and the medicinal allowance of sentimental he gives himself.)

Bejar sounds like a cross between Doug Henning, Snagglepuss and a 14th century court jester, so Malkmus for the win.

I think this is a sweet late-career Malkmus song (Amberjack, from 2020):

this is pretty good, thx

Musically Bejar goes for a pre-Brexit lush romantic Bryan Ferry Roxy Music sound which is therefore kind of European to me

they both sound pretty west coast to me but sm - sunnier, bejar - rainier

they should buddy up - Bejar & Malkmus, Danny & the Steph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBFVAb1rcE0

Steevy & The Dan

Bejar is/was the third-best songwriter in the New Pornographers, imo. I know many won't agree.

I don’t agree, but I think Slow Wonder and Fox Confessor are easily as good as Destroyer’s best

hard quartet > new pornographers

The last Malkmus album that I really like is Real Emotional Trash. It’s hard to believe that as much time has now passed since that came out as had passed between Slanted and Enchanted and that one.

Malky. Besides, he's a tentpole for Bejar's schtick -- which I also love. Destroyer's Rubies is an all-timer.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I've haven't heard any Malkmus later than his first solo album, and I haven't liked much Destroyer later than Trouble in Dreams. Malkmus is probably more skilled at writing melodies and riffs, while for Bejar lyrics seem effortless (to the point that I feel they frequently became facile in his late period). They both have the reputation as cerebral ironists, but they deal with feelings that you only get to by thinking.

Bejar folks, gimme a stone cold killer song under 3 minutes that's catchy and not slow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIvz0TKk8BE

Bejar accepts his own bookishness and Malkmus is severely conflicted about his

Really good point.

i don't think solo acoustic performances do either of them any favours

I saw Bejar solo in 2009 and, though it worked, it only really caught fire when the opening band backed him up for a few songs at the end of the set.

Bejar is/was the third-best songwriter in the New Pornographers

For all that Neko Case seems to have a reputation as a tough-talking, no-BS "realistic" songwriter, I find the words of her songs much more emotionally opaque than Bejar's and maybe even Carl Newman's.

In the end, a combination of several live experiences and pure Canadian chauvinism is turning my vote to Bejar.

Does Case even write songs in that band(?)

thanks for the examples but Bejar is just too close to alt-country for me, I think

whatever gave you that idea is extremely unrepresentative

i don't think there's a single destroyer album that i'd even call alt-country adjacent, not even his early acoustic singer-songwriter stuff

the sophisti-pop stuff from the last 15 years is my favourite but there's plenty of strong material before that too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s4tXUC_jwQ

whatever gave you that idea is extremely unrepresentative

um, listening to the "Jackie" song that was posted?

your example is better but this still isn't remotely close to me, I have learned however that I actually like some of Bejar's work which I never thought would be the case when reading abt it here over the last however many years

if this was purely based on solo output it would prob be a tie fwiw

I mean, c'mon, Neko put out records on Bloodshot! they are totally alt-country-adjacent

case's solo work is alt-country, sure, but bejar absolutely isn't & neither are the new pornographers. i don't care much for most of his songs with them, for the most part the more straight-forward rock arrangements don't really mesh well with his more meandering approach to songwriting

I def prefer the 2nd tune you posted, and I can see why map digs it

"sophisto-pop" seems accurate

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I don't know enough Bejar but I do love his song "Breakin The Law" that must have made a mark because the NP's covered it on their first record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0MomrChQVQ

That said, voted Malkmus and not even for Pavement, his solo output is insanely rewarding.

you can read the weirdest things on i love music dot com

anyway,

Does Case even write songs in that band(?)

no, she does not. but that has nothing to do with why i said that. i just meant in general, all works encompassed, Newman and Case > Bejar ... which is not some insult to Bejar!

That’s cool, I was just curious about the ranking-the-songwriters thing

i know, my second paragraph there sounded more terse than i meant it (which was not terse at all).

Destroyer (& Built To Spill) will be opening up for Pavement in Austin on 9/28/25.

this is an outrage!

maybe Levitation ran this poll to determine set order

The eves dripping
In the ill-timed august rain
If there is such a thing as Iill-timed august rain

Yeah, see, that's a good example. Malkmus is incapable of writing anything that good, though I feel like this is exactly the type of lyric Malkmus aspires to write. To be clear, I think Malkmus is a very good lyricist when he wants to be, but he's still nowhere in Bejar's league imo

Malk is very good when he wants to be, but he often doesn't seem like he wants to be, or like he's more interested in goofiness than poetry. Sometimes he veers between these in the same song

The eves dripping
In the ill-timed august rain
If there is such a thing as Iill-timed august rain

^^^ God, I can just hear him saying this in that annoying, smug voice of his.

good thing there is nothing in the Malkmus / Pavement discography that's remotely annoying or smug

It's the way every line is delivered like David Bowie suffering from a concussion.

While simultaneously being amazed at each insight coming out of his mouth.

This ^
Id probably enjoy a book of bejar
Poetry but his vocal delivery is full body cringe

bejar songs are always the best songs on new pornographers records. this has been scientifically proven

“ballad of a comeback kid” >>>>>>

'execution day' >>>>>>>

myriad harbor

When I'm at war I insist on a slaughter,
And getting it on with the hangman's daughter.
She needs release. She needs to feel at ease with her father,
The fucking maniac.
[GUITAR SOLO!]

I love how he whispers that last line, almost conspiratorially. He always commits to the bit! That flair for drama is one of the things I love most about him.

In fact, I think the very quality that Darin and calstars seem to dislike about Bejar, namely his affectation--and it is affectation--is the very same quality that draws me to him as a singer.

But I also get it: singing voices are a very personal and uniquely polarizing thing, and I can definitely see how Bejar's voice would be an impediment for many people. There are singing voices that inexplicably grate on me to the point where I just cant stand to hear them, regardless of how good the rest of the music may be. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons you can always count me absent from threads about Big Thief.

Interesting to think about vocal affectation in the context of a comparison with Malkmus, a singer who often achieves effects which don’t sound very natural, whether it’s a Mark E Smith style rant in the very early days or the studied slacker drawl he eventually settled into, although obviously he could be a very charismatic singer and I think there is considerable craft behind it. But Bejar’s nasal resonance is almost Dylan-esque in its abrasiveness.

Interesting to think about vocal affectation in the context of a comparison with Malkmus, a singer who often achieves effects which don’t sound very natural, whether it’s a Mark E Smith style rant in the very early days or the studied slacker drawl he eventually settled into, although obviously he could be a very charismatic singer and I think there is considerable craft behind it. But Bejar’s nasal resonance is almost Dylan-esque in its abrasiveness.

Sorry for the double post.

Dylan is important touchstone for both singers, but even more for Bejar. The affectation gives him wings. Like Dylan, it may sound weird to most people but Bejar knows exactly what he's doing.

Like David Berman, all my favorite singers couldn't sing.

berman studied with james tate. his buddy malkmus doesn't deny john berryman's influence. for whatever reason bejar is less forthcoming, if that matters

What vocalist isn't affected and why is affected bad?

Beyonce should start singing in a Buddy Hackett voice on her next album. Her career would be next level.

Alfred's question is one that really ought to be required groundwork here -- its presumptive non-interrogative version is "singing is inherently affective," and I think that's true, which means that what we're talking about is either performative affectation (the singer is drawing attention to the inherently affective nature of the effort) or simply clumsy/untutored singing (the singer seems affected because he has failed to sufficiently cloak the inherently affective nature of the effort). So what is it then to complain that a singer is "affected" -- I personally think the affected singer is really crediting the listener as more sophisticated than the one who insists on a tacit contract of presumed, forgive me, "authenticity"

"affected" kind of doing the work of "pseudo-intellectual," I think

None of that really matters. The only thing that does is how it's received and parsed by the listener. Their intent is irrelevant if the end product comes out as Bowie with a head wound.

xp i also feel like it's used in a male rock context when a singer is communicating other emotions that aren't sadness, anger or straight-ahead gendered bombast.

of course artists find themselves through 'affectation' and contrary to what a lot of people say i think it's the most natural thing in the world. i doubt dan bejar really decides consciously to be the vocalist he is, in fact he's said as much in interviews. whenever an artist says 'i was going for x' about a song, i feel like very often the results are not that at all, just a slightly different spin on what they were all along. one of my favorite things about bejar is the drama, spite, suffering and grand irony he brings to certain throwaway lines. whoever said bejar was european was somewhat otm - he does have a spanish surname after all - and i hear a spanishness in the absurd and surreal sweep of some of the songs.

I also hear spanishness in his five Spanish songs

Being suspicious of affectation says more about the listener than the artist. Presuming a lack of sincerity in one's voice (all meanings of the word) points to a listener unwilling to know anything outside of their particular affectation. No one is immune from affect, (defined as mood, emotional influence to and influence of), in art or in everyday living. To criticise affect when it is 'performed' makes me think maybe someone should either stay away from art, or investigate their own affectations more so that they might be more open to its expression in others

criticizing jerky ilm poster affects is, on the other hand, a righteous endeavor.

i also feel like it's used in a male rock context when a singer is communicating other emotions that aren't sadness, anger or straight-ahead gendered bombast

yes, this is insightful imo -- an affectation is when I didn't already agree that what you wanted to sing about was interesting

Double otm

Unless that was in reference to me map. No wait I take that back, still otm

OK I'll stop being a jerk. Here's a less sarcastic response to this topic: I honestly don't mind Bejar that much in the Destroyer context, but I don't think he blends well stylistically with Case or Newman in NP. I think I prefer vocalists who serve the song rather than the other way around if that makes sense.

I don't understand why anyone wants to play Adjective Police in discussions like these. I think we all understand that words fall on a continuum of opinions from positive to negative, and that while I'd describe Bejar as a "stylized" singer, I would call (for example) Conor Oberst "affected", neither of which has anything to do with presumptions of authenticity, and which someone with different tastes in singers could reverse.