― Swelle, Monday, 11 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
He used to be a drummer in local band in the early seventies that garnered a decent following, and in his less than spectacular decline into middle age, he lived in a sort of fugue state where those events were still happening. If you caught him in the right mood, he would tell you stories of his days in the band. He was also an avid collector of old vinyl.
His favorite band in the whole world was Moby Grape. Hence, I say Classic.
― jenny, Monday, 11 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)
― pauls, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― tarden, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
But listen, you folks have to hear THIS! One of the most blatant examples of plagarism I have EVER heard is Oasis's rip-off of the tune of Moby Grape's "He" (from "Wow") for What's The Story's "Cast No Shadow". I have never read about this anywhere, nor met anyone else who has spotted it, but I'm convinced that Noel must have copied. It's just too close to be true.
Someone have a listen and see if you agree.
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
Regarding Moby Grape, were they the first triple guitar assault band? Or does that honor go to the Buffalo Springfield? Anyway, "Fall On You" and "Indifference" are also great sing-a-longs... what was the story about the gross overhyping of that record by Columbia? Orchids dropped from the ceilings or something?
I'm gonna listen to that Oasis/Moby Grape comparison.. maybe those guys are owed some dough.
― Andy, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
The orchid / Columbia thing - I do believe that Columbia Records, in the midst of some collective acid trip, decided to issue FIVE singles from Moby Grape's first album at the SAME TIME! They also threw some sort of record release / industry party where they had all this purple stuff flying everywhere - balloons, flowers, etc. Later on in the Grape's career, Columbia tried to boost interest in them by including an LP's worth of jamming (called Grape Jam) with a subsequent release. That didn't fly well, either.
Between those fiascos & Skip Spence chasing a bandmember with an axe while tripping, I'd have to say that Moby Grape is one band known more for their infamy than their music.
For what it's worth, the Golden Palominos (fronted by Michael Stipe) released a lackluster version of "Omaha" back in the '80s.
― David Raposa, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
I first came across the Grape in the late 80s when my brother and I were discovering all things psychedelic. He bought the first album and raved about it but when I played it it did nothing for me at all, except for the strange little song at the end of side one ("Naked if I want to"). Around the same time he was insisting that the Stone Roses' debut album was superb, but all I could hear was third hand Byrds riffs (which I still believe).
Over the years the lure of the Grape came my way. Again, my brother had "Vintage", the double CD already mentioned. I listened again and thought it wasn't so bad now. Contrary as ever, my brother and I disagreed on the second disc, I claimed that the likes of "Bitter wind", "Rose coloured eyes" and "He" were far superior psych than anything on the first album. And to be honest I still agree with that. There's something creepy about those three songs, particularly the way they swerve, the orchestrations, it all seems very on-the- edge. This could of course become another thread about how half the music made by musicians on CBS in 1968 is amongst the best (and strangest) ever.
As to "Oar", again I agree with the person above, it is a real headphones album. Play it through speakers and half the time you won't notice it's there. On headphones it makes a real impact. Maybe I've falled for the hype, maybe not. The 'extra' tracks on the recent CD don't exactly add much, but the original LP is fine. And yes, I do like Syd Barrett's solo albums too....
― Rob M, Tuesday, 12 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
But the Grape, like most bands, fixated on a bad mojo of too many drugs, too much hype and the fact that they were completely undisciplined in the studio. They weren't consistent enough songwriters to sustain things. But there are moments where is clicks when you listen. Just enough to make you wish they had gotten their shit together.
I've seen Miller play in Bay Area off and on for the last several years, there's still a little magic there. Not too many guys would have the cojones to strap on an L5 jazz guitar, turn up the Fender Super Reverb and make it sound like this completely oddball mixture of country swing and psychedelic blues. And he pulls it off every time.
"This much madness is too much sorrow"....different band, same sentiment.
T
― Phil Missimore, Monday, 24 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ron Martin, Saturday, 2 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Glenn Shirey, Monday, 8 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― peter smith, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― J Blount, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)
― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 23 May 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)
Wait, which thread is this again?
― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Monday, 23 May 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)
And so I give my ten-other-than-debut, which isn't as hard as it might seem:
Goin' Down to Texas (from "20 Granite Creek")Truly Fine Citizen What's to ChooseMurder in My Heart for the JudgeSkip's SongIndifference (live Monterey Popfest from this boot I got, "Long Gone"--pretty incredible version)Just Like Gene AutryHoochieTrucking Man
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 23 May 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)
So everybody's sounded off on Skip Spence's LP. What about that album by Bob Mosley?
― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 01:46 (twenty years ago)
― Amon (eman), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 02:56 (twenty years ago)
― Amon (eman), Tuesday, 24 May 2005 03:10 (twenty years ago)
― Jek, Sunday, 4 December 2005 05:31 (nineteen years ago)
― amon (eman), Sunday, 4 December 2005 05:42 (nineteen years ago)
― skippy, Sunday, 4 December 2005 06:45 (nineteen years ago)
― ZR (teenagequiet), Sunday, 4 December 2005 06:49 (nineteen years ago)
― ZR (teenagequiet), Sunday, 4 December 2005 06:50 (nineteen years ago)
― amon (eman), Sunday, 4 December 2005 07:01 (nineteen years ago)
― amon (eman), Sunday, 4 December 2005 07:05 (nineteen years ago)
― Jek, Monday, 5 December 2005 04:33 (nineteen years ago)
― corey c (shock of daylight), Monday, 5 December 2005 07:48 (nineteen years ago)
I just want to say that now i am a full-fledged later Grape apologist--dudes, Truly Fine Citizen is a decent album--"Changes, Circles Spinning!!" is such an awesome opener!
― be home by 11 (orion), Thursday, 11 January 2007 02:34 (eighteen years ago)
Also, during Tower's last days I found LEGENDARY GRAPE, a later reunion record. Not bad, although the 1980's production (drums and bass mixed higher than everything else) almost ruins it, to the point where certain songs sound like a middle-aged classic-rock suburban bar band.
― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Thursday, 11 January 2007 04:10 (eighteen years ago)
I still think the song "Truly Fine Citizen" is one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard, at 2 minutes...
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 11 January 2007 04:51 (eighteen years ago)
Skip-Oar- still is one of my all time faves, but is also very un-nerving in the Syd Barrett sorta way. like listening to someone slowly come apart...
― edde (edde), Thursday, 11 January 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)
― john martin (john.martin.2), Monday, 22 January 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)
― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Monday, 22 January 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 January 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)
― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 00:31 (eighteen years ago)
spence plays drums on The Jefferson Airplane Takes Off, and the band covered his tune his "My Best Friend" on Surrealistic Pillow, which is a great tune.
as for a grape bootleg, i've always wanted a live one but i'm not sure about ever getting to hear one.
― QuantumNoise (Justin Farrar), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 00:47 (eighteen years ago)
― be home by 11 (orion), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 01:23 (eighteen years ago)
― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)
it's sorta corny but i always loved this song, also mosley rocking a sweater vest!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEbg_SpRsA&feature=related
― velko, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 07:34 (sixteen years ago)
I like the second album more than the first!
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 07:36 (sixteen years ago)
they ruled so hard ... I can't believe there hasn't been some sort of Columbia/Legacy archive release of them ... like we've seen from Santana/Big Bro/Byrds/ etc ... there simply has to be a hi-fi version of "Dark Magic" lurking in the vaults somewhere
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 07:39 (sixteen years ago)
how is the 1971 reunion album, 20 granite creek???
― velko, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 07:46 (sixteen years ago)
who fuckin cares about '71 .. we need that late 60s freakout shit that these guys were doing, DARK MAGIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey, has everyone heard about the QMS stuff that's gonna come out ???
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 08:00 (sixteen years ago)
oh shit, wait, this might just be that San Jose show that you and me and everyone else with a clue had already (-: ... i thought it might be new stuff...
http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/web/Release/BEARVP105CD/
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 08:03 (sixteen years ago)
crap .. bad link ... should've been this:
― Stormy Davis, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 08:04 (sixteen years ago)
The CD release of "Moby Grape", "Wow" and "Grape Jam" by Sundazed (at the end of 2007?) were withdrawn at the insistance of Matthew Katz.
There are a few of the latter two knocking about GB stores, the first is long gone.
Nobody needs "Grape Jam" save for "The Lake" which is quite funny, especially for the "whatever happened to Hairy Mary?" ending. On which, hangs a tale.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 08:22 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHc1pJ9RMLk
dark magic is awesome
― am0n, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 14:17 (sixteen years ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r6eGG6Y-zs
― am0n, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 14:21 (sixteen years ago)
the reissue of the first album, on Sundazed, I think, is now OP and goes for $$. Matthew Katz again??
― whisperineddhurt, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 15:42 (sixteen years ago)
From what I understand it is Katz...again. He gave Sundazed permission basically to bait Sony/Legacy into doing their own reissues. That's the story I was told. I don't know if it's accurate though.
― QuantumNoise, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 15:45 (sixteen years ago)
20 Granite Creek is pretty good.
― C. Grisso/McCain, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 16:44 (sixteen years ago)
I love Grape '69 and Truly Fine Citizen.
― ian, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 18:40 (sixteen years ago)
i've got a pretty decent-sounding 17-minute version of "Dark Magic" -- it's on this bootleg comp (with a bunch of different bands) called "San Franciscan Nights" or some such ... it is pretty rockin -- more like "sister ray" than "dark star" i think. "sister ray" as played by the buffalo springfield ...
― tylerw, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 19:02 (sixteen years ago)
ysi?
― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 19:18 (sixteen years ago)
ah, that's what I was afraid of. Well, I'm sure Katz is a crook, but Columbia's not releasing the MG records in a form similar to that taken on the Byrds reissues--certainly, Skip Spence studio chatter has got to be more entertaining than the Michael Clarke stuff on Notorious--is something I hope they'll rectify. Even though I have the 2-CD set they did a while back.
and yeah, 20 Granite Creek is pretty solid, really. "Goin' Down to Texas" is brilliant at 2 minutes.
― whisperineddhurt, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 19:38 (sixteen years ago)
So how much might an original pressing of their first album with mint-condition poster be worth? Because I just scored one for 20 bucks and saw that the poster alone sells for upwards of $30.
― Reatards Unite, Sunday, 5 October 2008 16:17 (sixteen years ago)
Mono or stereo?
― ian, Sunday, 5 October 2008 16:45 (sixteen years ago)
The condition of the jacket as well as the disc will matter too, but if it's stereo, on ebay, maybe $40-70. If mono, more like $50-100 i think.
of course, sometimes a nice stereo copy with poster will sell for $150, like so: http://popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=130154241998
― ian, Sunday, 5 October 2008 16:56 (sixteen years ago)
You should just keep it, it's a great record!
― ian, Sunday, 5 October 2008 16:57 (sixteen years ago)
I believe it's stereo, it's in good condition though. I was planning on keeping it anyway, it's one of my favorite 60s records, I was just wondering for the collectable value.
― Reatards Unite, Sunday, 5 October 2008 17:05 (sixteen years ago)
The second disk of Vintage is kinda depressing. "Funky-Tunk" is a terrible name for a song. The song is not as bad as the title, though the Kermit-the-Frog vocals highlight something that bugs me about country rock: the suspicion that these guys are kinda making fun of country music. I hated the Beachwood Sparks for that reason. But the Jefferson Airplane on "The Farm", that's another example: too much yee-haw-ing, I guess.
― Euler, Friday, 2 October 2009 12:51 (fifteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GO_glmbqjI
― The 19 Most Obvious Sockpuppets of the Decade (velko), Saturday, 20 March 2010 21:08 (fifteen years ago)
What is it?
― Mark G, Monday, 22 March 2010 12:59 (fifteen years ago)
Have you guys heard about the live thing that Sundazed is doing?http://www.sundazed.com/shop/moby_grape_live.phpLooks pretty rad
― Trip Maker, Monday, 22 March 2010 14:43 (fifteen years ago)
ooh, just found out about the live thing ... anyone heard it? samples on itunes sound great.
― tylerw, Sunday, 18 April 2010 20:09 (fifteen years ago)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5138/5500082647_9894689743_z.jpg
― ilxor astro-ilx? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 6 March 2011 18:56 (fourteen years ago)
It's the airbrushed version!
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 6 March 2011 19:04 (fourteen years ago)
true :(
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Sunday, 6 March 2011 19:06 (fourteen years ago)
Fun Fact: Jerry Miller played most of the guitar on the last Chocolate Watchband lp.
― Your cousin, Marvin Cobain (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 6 March 2011 19:09 (fourteen years ago)
First album doesn't quite live up to its rep IMO, though unquestionably still a great straightforward rock LP with nice multipart vocals, triple-threat guitars, and consistantly good (but not great) songwriting. Also mixes hints of folk, blues, jazz, and country adroitly. For a band often labelled "psychedelic", notable that the only drug they sang the praises of was Robitussin!
Wow was the first Grape album I heard, and like many rock acts in that period, decided in the wake of Sgt. Pepper that any leading-edge rock band needed to embellish their music with strings, brass, and studio trickery. Some excellent songs here ("He", "Can't Be So Bad"), several forgettable ones ("Miller's Blues"), some half-baked good ideas, and more gimmicks (a lock groove near the end of side 1; you had to advance the stylus and play the last track at 78rpm). The free bonus disk, Grape Jam, is a collection of boring jam sessions, notable only for the first 45 seconds of the record: "Never" was copped by Led Zeppelin which built "Since I've Been Loving You" around the first verse of this song (after which it diverges completely).
Moby Grape '69 was more consistent than it's predecessor, more countrified, and no longer overproduced. Skip was out of the band by this point.
Don't recall anything all that likeable from the next two albums or the Bob Mosley solo LP. I've heard only a few song's from Oar, and wasn't excited enough to hear the rest. I also have their (again) self-titled 1983 album, which is likeable but utterly unexceptional adult-contemporary fare that could have been the work of, say, Firefall if it were catchier.
From what i understand, the best-sounding reissue of the first album was on Columbia's "Vintage" 2-disc set, which includs the 1st album in its entirety and highlights from the other three Columbia discs, with some outtakes and alternate versions thrown in. The Katz-issued CDs on the San Francisco Sound label sound like crap.
― Lee626, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 13:05 (fourteen years ago)
The "Grape Jam" record's only notable track is the one they recorded as a 'prize' in a songwriters competition.
Particularly the end "Whatever happened to hairy mary", which was a madly smutty entry they weren't allowed to choose as the winner.
― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 13:12 (fourteen years ago)
The live sundazed 2lp is pretty spotty, tbh, but the sidelong "Dark Magic" recorded on new year's ever 1966 is unbelievably great.Arguably worth the price of the set, but it's a pretty expensive set. They went all out on the packaging.
― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 15:30 (fourteen years ago)
It's on the CD anyway, innit?
― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 15:44 (fourteen years ago)
I dunno.
― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 15:55 (fourteen years ago)
What CD?
― Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 8 March 2011 15:56 (fourteen years ago)
oink
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 16:14 (fourteen years ago)
waffles
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 16:15 (fourteen years ago)
I don't know if anybody's already mentioned these, but I love "Ain't That a Shame" and "I Am Not Willing" from the third album. First LP's great, of course; haven't heard the second.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 March 2011 17:10 (fourteen years ago)
"dark magic" is kind of the pinnacle of this band imo
― tylerw, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 20:01 (fourteen years ago)
s/t > grape 69 > truly fine citizen > 20 granite creek > wow
imo.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Wednesday, 9 March 2011 20:03 (fourteen years ago)
I never understood where the "psychedelic" label came from (at least, wrt the first record). The Book Of Rock Lists (listing Grape in "Bands That Died Before Their Time") in fact called them one of the only non-psychedelic bands to come out of the Bay Area.
In terms of songwriting, "Mr. Blues" (among others) is some crazy shit. The intro that never reappears? The lack of a chorus? That weird little breakdown just before the end? All in less than 2:00.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 20:18 (fourteen years ago)
Agreed. Moby Grape is not in any way, shape, or form a psychedelic-rock band.
Several of the songs on the 1st album have end sections that don't appear anywhere else in the song (Mr. Blues, Someday, Indifference), or at least oddball codas (Ain't No Use, Lazy Me).
"The Place And The Time" is their craziest songwriting though IMO, to say nothing of production. Nothing even close to a chorus in there.
― Lee626, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 21:16 (fourteen years ago)
I'm gonna have to revisit that one; I know the first record like the back of my hand, but the rest of them I'm not as familiar with.
My only gripe with the first record is the production. In fact, aside from CCR and Sly, I can't think of a single Bay Area band that was decently recorded at that time. The snare on the first Grape record sounds like close-miked wax paper.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 21:31 (fourteen years ago)
Moby Grape is not in any way, shape, or form a psychedelic-rock bandyou should listen to Dark Magic, because it's sure as shit psychedelic.
― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 21:37 (fourteen years ago)
OK I've never heard anything but the studio albums. You're referring to the recently released live set?
― Lee626, Wednesday, 9 March 2011 22:33 (fourteen years ago)
He is.
― Mark G, Thursday, 10 March 2011 10:02 (fourteen years ago)
OTM
― Tom D (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 March 2011 11:16 (fourteen years ago)
First Quicksilver album is nice sounding.
― timellison, Thursday, 10 March 2011 16:59 (fourteen years ago)
surrealistic pillow sounds good imo.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Thursday, 10 March 2011 18:17 (fourteen years ago)
The post-SP Airplane albums sound even better.
― Your cousin, Marvin Cobain (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 10 March 2011 18:23 (fourteen years ago)
First Big Brother, too. Mainstream label stuff had a nice, clean sound.
― timellison, Thursday, 10 March 2011 19:16 (fourteen years ago)
It was clean, but tame. I get the sense listening to those records that the engineers had no clue how to record/mike a loud drum kit (if those drummers even played loud), and told the drummers to lighten things up a bit.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 10 March 2011 19:36 (fourteen years ago)
That's interesting. I do tend to like '60s rock drummers that had a lighter touch, like Ron Edgar in the Music Machine or the guy in the Peanut Butter Conspiracy.
― timellison, Thursday, 10 March 2011 20:25 (fourteen years ago)
We need a Peanut Butter Conspiracy thread! Listening to "It's a Happening Thing" or "Turn on a Friend" for the first time made me feel like I'd just discovered the unbeknownst missing link between the Spanky & Our Gang and Jefferson Airplane...
― Lee626, Thursday, 10 March 2011 21:04 (fourteen years ago)
the
― Lee626, Thursday, 10 March 2011 21:06 (fourteen years ago)
Spencer Dryden was in an early version of the PBC!
― Your cousin, Marvin Cobain (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 10 March 2011 23:42 (fourteen years ago)
8:05
― Eloi Wallach (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 March 2011 00:05 (fourteen years ago)
If you're not in my timezone: 8:05
― Eloi Wallach (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:05 PM (1 minute ago)
― Eloi Wallach (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 17 March 2011 00:07 (fourteen years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adF3Lc-g5Ac
― he quipped with heat (amateurist), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 22:04 (ten years ago)
I've had Wow on my computer for a few years, finally got around to burning it. (Just downloaded Wow, not the jam album.) I'm not surprised it's not as good as the first, didn't expect it to be, but based on a single listen in the car, it's just not very good at all. Parts of it sounded like David Clayton-Thomas had taken over vocals. I did like this, though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78c5vwjIC4
― clemenza, Sunday, 20 September 2015 18:40 (nine years ago)
Yeah, that song is great, there are other good things on "Wow" but they pretty much blew it. The demo(?) versions of "The Place and the Time" and "Bitter Wind" on "Vintage" are both brilliant ... though I like the weirdness of the album version of the latter. This is a weird thread, which is somehow appropriate.
― Fields of Fat Henry (Tom D.), Sunday, 20 September 2015 19:05 (nine years ago)
I still like "wow" more than the debut, maybe because it's stranger.
― Mark G, Monday, 21 September 2015 13:38 (nine years ago)
Of course, it may also be because of the extras on the CD version, but hey.
― Mark G, Monday, 21 September 2015 13:39 (nine years ago)
Don Stevenson is now a subway busker in Toronto and seemingly very content about his life.. http://youtu.be/jIvSxA56HP0
― Ρεμπετολογια, Wednesday, 16 January 2019 03:40 (six years ago)
<3
― timellison, Wednesday, 16 January 2019 03:59 (six years ago)
Amazing.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 16 January 2019 04:16 (six years ago)
I want to be Don Stevenson when I'm 74.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 10:22 (six years ago)
"Because it drives like a motherfucker, and that's where it's at."
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 14:45 (six years ago)
https://img.discogs.com/nZjwifemKO1pkyFmtRJqfvLrn3g=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12919826-1544538686-5094.jpeg.jpg
from last year
― budo jeru, Thursday, 17 January 2019 00:32 (six years ago)
When xgau got around to reviewingLive(Sundazed, 2010) last summer, he made a point of mentioning "And everywhere there's Stevenson, reminding everyone to keep it loud and keep it moving." Sounds like qualifications for a subway busker.Xgau hasn't written about 'em all, not yet, but good takes on these (even cherrypicks Truly Fine Citizen) http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Moby+Grape
― dow, Friday, 18 January 2019 01:49 (six years ago)
Some more bits here, written later: https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rs/mobygrape-07.phpIntrigued by comment on Moby Grape '69: ...rather than hinting at country rock, it is the very beast, songwriting honorable and presentation flat. So---good source of covers, maybe enough for a whole tribute/improvement album??
― dow, Friday, 18 January 2019 02:05 (six years ago)
sometimes i prefer 69 over s/t
if you or the flaming lips or sean lennon or w/e can improve on “i am not willing” i’d really fucking like to hear it
― budo jeru, Friday, 18 January 2019 03:15 (six years ago)
Not me! Or maybe the ones you mention either. Xgau's not big on country rock, unless you count some of the more rural tracks on Working Man's Dead late-60s Dylan albums, and Gram Parsons (who loathed the term). Plenty of promising young and not-so-young performers nowadays who could use a good song (not their own).
― dow, Friday, 18 January 2019 16:16 (six years ago)
what i meant was that the MG “i am not willing” is imo a near-perfect song that would not benefit much from a reinterpretation
― budo jeru, Saturday, 19 January 2019 01:03 (six years ago)
I had no idea Peter Lewis's mother was actually Oscar-winning Hollywood actress Loretta Young. (She was in Orson Welles's The Stranger, one of Frank Borzage's greatest films Man's Castle and won her Oscar for Best Actress in The Farmer's Daughter.) Regardless, guy's had quite a troubled life and it's pretty amazing how he overcame those struggles then went out of his way to take care of his bandmates as well.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 25 September 2022 03:23 (two years ago)
Had no idea about that either. Wanted to tell you about a new essay about “Omaha” I heard about that I am looking forward to.
― Ride On Proserpina (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 25 September 2022 03:38 (two years ago)
Fairly amazing 3-part interview w Peter Lewis begins here: https://www.craigmorrison.com/spip.php?article65
guy's had quite a troubled life and it's pretty amazing how he overcame those struggles then went out of his way to take care of his bandmates as well.
― dow, Sunday, 25 September 2022 05:07 (two years ago)
GREAT read. Thanks for sharing dow.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 25 September 2022 17:50 (two years ago)
He should write a book--but considering the interviews, maybe he pretty much has? Was orig looking for the Sundazed one I saw many years ago, but so far haven't reeled it back in--so who knows what else may have gotten lost.I thought I knew a fair amount about their saga, but omg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby_Grape
― dow, Sunday, 25 September 2022 17:55 (two years ago)
I got word that the sundazed reissues of the first two (three?) Albums were being withdrawn, so managed to get the first and "Wow", like, immediately.
Of course, now it's the remaining ones that are the hardest to find.
― Mark G, Sunday, 25 September 2022 17:58 (two years ago)
Damn! At least you got that one.Was thinking there was a Lewis interview among these, anyway quite a trove otherwise:http://www.richieunterberger.com/sitemap.html
― dow, Sunday, 25 September 2022 18:00 (two years ago)
Yeah, it's pretty sad and crazy. This article is a great read if you want a good summary of their litigation with Matthew Katz:
https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-story-of-moby-grape-chaos-and-courtrooms-acid-and-white-witches
Here's a brief excerpt:
Some time in 2000, Lewis came face to face with Katz in court: “Katz was there, hugging me and saying that we shouldn’t have lawyers to decide everything.
I told him: ‘I don’t want to hug you, Matthew. But I’ll say this: I buried your protégé last year. I felt his hand go cold in mine. This guy died like a mouse without his cheese while you were spending his publishing money on whatever you spend your shitty money on. I want to say this on his behalf: if this whole thing was about your redemption, so that you could see that what you did to us wasn’t a cool thing, then I think he would have told you it was worthwhile. Because that’s the kind of guy Skippy was. But Matthew, go and sin no more.’ So he leaves the court, weeping. Then the next day he calls the court and tries to vacate the settlement because he didn’t think he got what he wanted!”
It feels like a case where Katz has to die before the band can finally get their catalog back in-print. I'm amazed that hasn't happened yet but Katz is hanging on well into his 90's.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 25 September 2022 18:12 (two years ago)
It would never happen today, but I remember Skip Spence's death earning a (very brief) mention on my local morning news show.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 25 September 2022 18:25 (two years ago)
Put some tussin on it!
― Ride On Proserpina (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 25 September 2022 20:14 (two years ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rVYZ4hYnt0
It feels like a case where Katz has to die before the band can finally get their catalog back in-print. I'm amazed that hasn't happened yet but Katz is hanging on well into his 90's.Hopefully his death will enable that to happen, but Allen Klein’s been dead 13 years and the Stones still don’t have control over their ‘60s catalog.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 25 September 2022 20:22 (two years ago)
oday Peter Lewis of the legendary Moby Grape shares “Path of Least Resistance,” the first song from his upcoming album Imagination, out June 16th. Peter Lewis played a crucial part in the creation of that rare beast, the perfect rock & roll album: Moby Grape, a legendary union of guitars, voices and brotherhood made in a now-distant American age, the psychedelic San Francisco of 1967. While the band stands alongside Jefferson Airplane and The Grateful Dead in the eyes of knowledgeable fans and critics, the band never reached the same level of name-recognition due to an early dissolution and corrosive management. “Path of Least Resistance” is inspired by these management troubles that began in the 60’s and still hamper the band’s ownership over their success to this day. Listen to “Path of Least Resistance”SpotifyAppleYouTubemagination will be released through OMAD Records, the boutique label of the album's producer John DeNicola. “We are all beings who want to live forever but know we won’t. Although this is a predicament everyone must learn to accept, the different ways in which we spend our time trying to cope with our mortality don’t always lead to a common sympathy between us, but to conflict and profound suffering. Yet in the end all we really have in the whole wide universe is each other and that is what this CD is trying to point out” – Peter Lewis That comes through crystal clear on Imagination, a new collection of singular songcraft that could only spring from the creative consciousness of Peter Lewis. founding member of the legendary San Francisco rock group Moby Grape. Consider the driving, chiming “Path of Least Resistance,” as radio ready as a rocker can be despite its fierce philosophizing, and “If I Just Had You,” which spins incandescent longing into perfect doo/wop. Delicate guitars and lilting, uplifting harmonies are the warm embrace of “When You Come Back to Me” while pensive piano carries the earnestly heartening “Without You.” Impossible to peg, Lewis also lets loose with a country waltz (“The Garden Song”), a flamenco-influenced tragedy (“La Mujer”) and a jazzy, trippy nightmare (“Frank Zappa’s Ghost”). With his voice in fine fettle, Lewis serves each song—bright and delicate here, gravelly and aching there, even roaring when required—through lyrical themes that ponder mortality versus eternity, illusion versus reality. The 10-track long player is his second release on OMAD Records, a follow-up to 2019’s The Road to Zion, and it marks a deeper collaboration with John DeNicola, main man of the bespoke label. “The songs on Imagination, like those on The Road to Zion, attempt to reveal a certain perspective about life,” Lewis says. “But on The Road to Zion, this perspective was highly personal, whereas working with John on Imagination, we sought a perspective we might share with everyone.” Soon it will be time for listeners to enter Peter Lewis’s Imagination. What insights you glean from the words, what spirit you hear in the sound, what it makes you think and feel—about dreams, doubt and deception, life, love and the everlasting—will be yours alone. All Lewis will suggest, in terms of a shared experience, is a favorite line from Lost Horizon: “‘There are moments in every man’s life when he glimpses the eternal.’ I have been searching for this glimpse all my life and my sincere wish is that anyone out there searching for it too might find hope for their journey in this record.” Imagination1. Just Like Sunshine2. Without You3. Frank Zappa’s Ghost4. When You Come Back To Me5. If I Just Had You6. Imagination7. Path Of Least Resistance8. La Mujer9. The Garden Song10. Saying Goodbye ### PRESS CONTACT:Big Hassle Mediajim at bighassle dot com
Peter Lewis played a crucial part in the creation of that rare beast, the perfect rock & roll album: Moby Grape, a legendary union of guitars, voices and brotherhood made in a now-distant American age, the psychedelic San Francisco of 1967. While the band stands alongside Jefferson Airplane and The Grateful Dead in the eyes of knowledgeable fans and critics, the band never reached the same level of name-recognition due to an early dissolution and corrosive management. “Path of Least Resistance” is inspired by these management troubles that began in the 60’s and still hamper the band’s ownership over their success to this day.
Listen to “Path of Least Resistance”
Spotify
Apple
YouTube
magination will be released through OMAD Records, the boutique label of the album's producer John DeNicola.
“We are all beings who want to live forever but know we won’t. Although this is a predicament everyone must learn to accept, the different ways in which we spend our time trying to cope with our mortality don’t always lead to a common sympathy between us, but to conflict and profound suffering. Yet in the end all we really have in the whole wide universe is each other and that is what this CD is trying to point out” – Peter Lewis
That comes through crystal clear on Imagination, a new collection of singular songcraft that could only spring from the creative consciousness of Peter Lewis. founding member of the legendary San Francisco rock group Moby Grape. Consider the driving, chiming “Path of Least Resistance,” as radio ready as a rocker can be despite its fierce philosophizing, and “If I Just Had You,” which spins incandescent longing into perfect doo/wop. Delicate guitars and lilting, uplifting harmonies are the warm embrace of “When You Come Back to Me” while pensive piano carries the earnestly heartening “Without You.” Impossible to peg, Lewis also lets loose with a country waltz (“The Garden Song”), a flamenco-influenced tragedy (“La Mujer”) and a jazzy, trippy nightmare (“Frank Zappa’s Ghost”).
With his voice in fine fettle, Lewis serves each song—bright and delicate here, gravelly and aching there, even roaring when required—through lyrical themes that ponder mortality versus eternity, illusion versus reality. The 10-track long player is his second release on OMAD Records, a follow-up to 2019’s The Road to Zion, and it marks a deeper collaboration with John DeNicola, main man of the bespoke label. “The songs on Imagination, like those on The Road to Zion, attempt to reveal a certain perspective about life,” Lewis says. “But on The Road to Zion, this perspective was highly personal, whereas working with John on Imagination, we sought a perspective we might share with everyone.”
Soon it will be time for listeners to enter Peter Lewis’s Imagination. What insights you glean from the words, what spirit you hear in the sound, what it makes you think and feel—about dreams, doubt and deception, life, love and the everlasting—will be yours alone. All Lewis will suggest, in terms of a shared experience, is a favorite line from Lost Horizon: “‘There are moments in every man’s life when he glimpses the eternal.’ I have been searching for this glimpse all my life and my sincere wish is that anyone out there searching for it too might find hope for their journey in this record.”
Imagination
1. Just Like Sunshine
2. Without You
3. Frank Zappa’s Ghost
4. When You Come Back To Me
5. If I Just Had You
6. Imagination
7. Path Of Least Resistance
8. La Mujer
9. The Garden Song
10. Saying Goodbye
###
PRESS CONTACT:
Big Hassle Media
jim at bighassle dot com
― dow, Monday, 17 April 2023 18:31 (two years ago)
Did I get the memo about this 2019 release? (Probably, and forgot about it)(just checked, not seeing any email about it):
his second release on OMAD Records, a follow-up to 2019’s The Road to Zion, and it marks a deeper collaboration with John DeNicola, main man of the bespoke label. “The songs on Imagination, like those on The Road to Zion, attempt to reveal a certain perspective about life,” Lewis says. “But on The Road to Zion, this perspective was highly personal, whereas working with John on Imagination, we sought a perspective we might share with everyone.”
― dow, Monday, 17 April 2023 18:37 (two years ago)
Been listening to Moby Grape quite a bit recently and Peter Lewis was the most consistent songwriter in the band, he has good songs on every album (and never wrote anything as bad as "Funky-Tunk" for instance).
'69 is OK. it reminds me of post-Forever Changes Love in a "Let's forget all that psychedelic nonsense and get back to playing some rock and roll" way but then the best track on it is a psychedelic era Skip Spence song.
"Truly Fine Citizen" is the very definition of a contractual obligation album. Peter Lewis - who didn't even want to do the album - tries his best but the Miller/ Stevenson writing team is pretty much bereft of inspiration. It was recorded in three days and sounds like it, honestly stand-in bass player Bob Moore (R. Stevie's dad!) sounds like he's just hearing the songs for the first time. I think the boring covers of the post-Skip albums don't really help either.
― Body Odour Ultra Low Emission Zone (Tom D.), Friday, 14 July 2023 11:47 (one year ago)
I love "Changes, Circles Spinning" off Truly Fine Citizen, but I agree the rest is pretty forgettable.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 14 July 2023 11:56 (one year ago)
I still want to hear 20 Granite Creek and the 2010 Live on Sundazed, having read some very appealing takes from gen. reliable sources. Also that Ducks alb where Bob Mosley turns up (along with Neil Young etc.)
― dow, Friday, 14 July 2023 13:50 (one year ago)
Truly Fine Citizen isn't great, but goddamn what an incredible cover
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 14 July 2023 13:57 (one year ago)
I have Bob Mosley's solo record from '72 on vinyl (often used to be in delete bins). Don't remember a thing about it.
― clemenza, Friday, 14 July 2023 14:03 (one year ago)
Matthew Katz, notoriously one of the most reprehensible and grossly dishonest managers in rock history, finally died at the age of 93 back on September 30th after spending much of his adult life destroying this band, taking every cent they earned and nearly litigating their back catalogue out of existence save for the shitty reissues he’d try to put out and the temporary workarounds Bob Irwin and Sony have come up with over the years (see “Vintage: The Very Best of Moby Grape.”
― birdistheword, Thursday, 7 December 2023 05:47 (one year ago)
Ugh.
― Blecch’s POLLero (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 December 2023 06:08 (one year ago)
Seem to recall somebody…the Airplane, maybe?… advised them to stay away from him early on.
― Blecch’s POLLero (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 December 2023 06:09 (one year ago)
All the sordid details can be found here:
― birdistheword, Thursday, 7 December 2023 06:15 (one year ago)
Thanks. Once it’s in my head might just as well go back and (re)read all the gory details.
― Blecch’s POLLero (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 December 2023 06:33 (one year ago)
Can’t remember if I mentioned Susan Schmidt Hornung’s recent piece about “Omaha” upthread.
― Blecch’s POLLero (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 December 2023 06:50 (one year ago)
Not surprised this wasn't reported, who was going to mourn this horrible prick?
― Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 December 2023 07:26 (one year ago)
I don’t…but it could make their catalog, particularly their debut, available in complete and proper form again. (You can’t even stream the debut in its entirety on Apple Music.)
Would love it if Sundazed brought back their reissues - they were immediately pulled due to Katz’s litigation though pre-orders and other copies got out. That was the last attempt to properly release them in physical form.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 7 December 2023 07:40 (one year ago)
I could have sworn we had discussed him already dying recently but it guess was just lots of posts on the surprised at still alive thread.
― Blecch’s POLLero (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 7 December 2023 12:38 (one year ago)
Yes, I think he was mentioned fairly recently, possibly musing on why horrors like him and Kissinger are still alive... oh hold on...
― Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 December 2023 12:41 (one year ago)
xpost yeah, I got the debut CD just ahead of HMV having to pull them out of stores.
― Mark G, Thursday, 7 December 2023 13:10 (one year ago)
I have a 90s vinyl reissue of the debut bought in FOPP in the west end of Glasgow before they expanded UK wide. Man, that was a great shop.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Thursday, 7 December 2023 14:20 (one year ago)
Vintage was great, but suffers a bit (particularly in regards to the debut) from including all the studio chat and false starts on the individual songs themselves instead of indexing them separately or putting them in the between track countdowns.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 7 December 2023 14:38 (one year ago)
Yes, not sure I agree with some of the choices on which songs to include (or exclude) either.
― Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 December 2023 14:44 (one year ago)
including all the studio chat and false starts
True, although I wonder if this was part of a subterfuge to create new masters that weren't under Katz's ownership.
which songs to include (or exclude)
I haven't heard any other songs from the records proper, I'd like to know your choices. I could live without some of the Bob Mosley stuff that made it on Vintage
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 7 December 2023 15:27 (one year ago)
Finally listened to 20 Granite Creek, and first impression yow what a Saturday night! 1971, all five singing, playing, writing, rowdy and sharp and even more variety than primo The Band, without getting too fancy about it. Something barroom and outdoors about it, Cali all thee way--title and cover art provide that '71 roots touch, music not too much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA4FtjnmoV4
― dow, Sunday, 14 January 2024 00:34 (one year ago)
i think i like learning about, and talking about, this band more than i actually like listening to them.
even though i do really enjoy listening to them sometimes.
― budo jeru, Sunday, 14 January 2024 01:21 (one year ago)
I go through a couple days a year listening to those San Francisco bands. I will put together a play list loading up an album or two from a few bands then sort them around and give them a listen.
If you go from short songs to long songs, the Moby Grape stuff gets played and done pretty quick.
― The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Sunday, 14 January 2024 05:55 (one year ago)
I got the first one on LP. The record has been played to death, but it is cool to look at the cover.
― The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Sunday, 14 January 2024 05:57 (one year ago)
Mind you the LP was toasted long before I ever got it. Got a feeling a few joints were rolled off it in its heyday.
― The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Sunday, 14 January 2024 05:58 (one year ago)
And I have had the LP over 30 years now…
― The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Sunday, 14 January 2024 05:59 (one year ago)