Ok.... what's the big fuckin deal about Black Dice?

I'm almost completely neutral about their music - it's not really what I'm into.

plus... rare is the US band that does boredoms type stuff for hardcore kids.

and "beaches and canyons" to me sounds only similar in spirit to the boredoms stuff.

but what do i know, i'm still getting my hearing back,
m.

I like the fact the music can be both brutal and becalming. I like the fact the group's logic is quite contradictory and slippery, which is something to be admired at this late stage of the game. By me at least.

As for the older BD material, Cold Hands has its moments but the rest I've heard is fairly dull. I see what they're doing (noise assault... eh) but I don't really see a point to it all. Maybe if I'd seen it being done live?

they definitely moved further out... but so did a lot of the scene they played to...

interesting idea about life and death there mark. never really picked up on that... but watching a road weary bd play in nashville and seeing an audience member have a seizure, etc, etc surely does lend cred to the idea. beaches and canyons seems so positive though.

black dice doesn't seem like the type of band that really cares if folks get it or even like it. they've already notched the correct belt and will get their records put out and have a certain variety of folk come out to see them play and that's probably all they really care about.

well, that's what i can imagine at least... i mean, you can't hope for a guest slot on TRL with what they do.
m.

Mark, I feel I should quantify my orginal post. I do think the comparison makes sense, but ultimately I don't how successfully it enables you get a handle on the Dice. Your life/death analogy is perfect, I think that Black Dice represent letting go & the dissolution of the self, whilst Boredoms are all about the instant and the seizing of possibilities.

Sammy, I think that whole effect is entirely intentional. There is very little forward momentum, when drums do arrive they usually get stuck on the spot rather than propell the music forward. I would imagine this is their way of confounding any expectations people had carried over from their hardcore incarnation. I have an enormous capacity for this kind of contrariness but I can totally see why anyone else would see it as unneccessarily tricksy.

Or qualify it, even.

but i think beaches & canyons is rebirth. they destroyed themselves with stuff like the 31g 7" and the troubleman 10", felt chaos within and gave birth to a dancing star (thus spoke zarathustra)

this comment is OTM....really, boring, boring, boring stuff. I don't know why people are doing back flips for these guys...you go anywhere in williamsburg on any given night and you'll hear stuff that blows this shit out of the water.

I forsee B & C taking up a lot of space in the used racks in the near future.

~ddb

ps-i really liked the old stuff.

i agree the older stuff is better though, i've said it a few times but the 31g 7" really is a classic

True. And the most recent one may actually be better if it sounds better than its influence.

Semen of the Sun 7" = awesome

Again, Semen of the Sun = choice. The Vermin Scum 7" was too muddy to be a good listen. The Erase Errata split kinda blows :/

the tigerbeat6 3" seems like a bit of a throwback to cold hands i think, esp 'head like a door'

I don't see it as being worth getting for more than a couple bucks. I see it here all the time.

The Tigerbeat6 3" has the same songs as the new 12" on Catsup Plate, and they seem to have been recorded at the same time as the 31G 7". So that stuff's actually post-Cold Hands and pre-B&C....

ddb, what Brooklyn bands do you think are blowing Black Dice away? It's true, there are some really great bands in Brooklyn right now (though I do like Black Dice more than others I've heard).

new 12" on Catsup Plate = whoa discuss!

really? this makes so much more sense, thanx for the info

There are definitely some good Brooklyn bands, Scott M. We could talk about it here, or we could just revive this thread, I guess.

Aren't they supposed to be collaborating with Boredoms or something?

http://www.catsupplate.com/main.htm

no, but i just saw the sleeve and mmmmm it's lovely

The Boredoms thing is actually a remix of the song "Endless Happiness" by Eye from the Boredoms. It's been done since last year, and will be the B-side of a 12" on DFA. But isn't coming out til Black Dice finally finish the A-side.

heavy on concept... light on follow through... adds to the whole macho-grind-core-is-actually-really-funny idea.
m.

msp! when we were in the liquor store getting soda before the old time relijun/cockfight/lowdown show she was the one spazzing out in the candy aisle. i saw her at the edinburgh as "mc lil pocketknife" and it made for a loooooooong evening.

roger,
m.

* It really was her. We saw her teeth. Unmistakable. Though none of us had the balls to ask what she was doing in DC.

Not you, I gather.

actually i mean aumgn check it out they're almost identical apart from the can drumming being far superior!

^_^

My take on Black Dice, album by album:

s/t 7" on Gravity: Good. Samey, but good. Also not as fucked up as they would soon become... let's say *** (out of 5.)

"Semen Of The Sun" 7" On Tapes: Takes the hardest of the hardcore approach from their early work and adds really fucked up structures and twists, ****

"Printed Paper" 7" on Vermin Scum: I haven't heard all of it, but what I have heard is fairly boring and kind of indistinguishable. **

"#3" 10" on TMU: Drags on and on and on in the beginning, with sparse, unstructured boring noises. I have no desire to own this record at all. *

"Cold Hands" CD on TMU: Boring noise wank. I don't dig this at all. *

"Peace In The Valley" 7" on 31G: Don't own this one, but I've flipped thru the booklet at the record store before and it's quite pretty. The song I've heard from it is alright. **

"Lost Valley" 3" CD on Tigerbeat6: I really like this, especially the second track. The first time I listened to it the sudden end of the drone nearly made me choke on the food I was chewing. The tribal percussion in the first song is also very good. ***

"Beaches And Canyons" double LP on DFA: This album rules, straight up. It could use a little more variation, but the screaming feedback/drone/noise/electronic bleeps n' blips make a great soundtrack to being stoned out of your gourd, going to sleep, or driving late at night. The only complaint I've ever heard by someone I've played it for is that "YOU PLAY THIS ALL THE TIME. I AM SICK OF IT. IT SOUNDS LIKE ELEPHANTS DYING." by my girlfriend, Sasha.

I don't have the split 7" with Erase Errata because I don't like EE, and because all reviews of the Black Dice side I've heard say it's boring. I'll probably pick it up if I see it for less than $2 somewhere though.

Black Dice are also awesome live currently.. I never saw them in their audience smashing days though.

seeing that pink and brown are a lightning bolt cover band, i'll give you this

i've observed similar behavior at coachwhips shows... a buddies and pals pogo pit.

pretty harmless.

providence may be more fun in a bump and grind sort of way... but we have hansgrusels cutting off deer heads and so on...

and i'm sure you'll tell me of mooseheads in providence...

go ahead...
m.

ps lb and pnb seem plenty differnt to me... but... maybe not.

like f=ma, i think i can get behind the above... which also raises providence even higher... cause that's like 2 against 1....

m.

they play in the audience, not on a stage, it's just the two of them, they wear masks, and they tape the mics to their mouths. just a few similarities

Hella = snoooooooooze

werdslaw.

i was more referring to the muzak...

but yeah... that sounds like some mimicry....

dude... john dwyer clone machine... coachwhips is similar to billy childish... pnb is similar to lb...

i need to hear that solo-ish stuff he did... where's jack cole...? he knows.

chirp chirp,
m.

ps hella v. lightning bolt... spam:// http://www.pataphysics-lab.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?item_id=521&action=showitem

i just had to say that.

cromtech is forever on my "i need to hear that list". is it true crom tech made up their own language to express their lyrical content?

orthrelm is cool live... but on record it gets lost for me... the fucking champs twiddle my metal love buttons.

check out grand ulena if you like the above. "gateway to dignity". they're ex-dazzling killmen.

m.

really though the dwyer ocs is very fahey. have you heard it?

john dwyer is one of the funniest things about san francisco. he's everywhere you go, his presence sort of qualifies your event as being cool, and surprisingly for being such a psuedo-celebrity, he's nice as fuck

first of all, it's not providence, it's SF. secondly, nate denver, from crazy spazo noise band Total Shutdown also does solo stuff that's totally folky, singer songwriter stuff about making deals with the devil, and in the middle of the song he busts out with his cookie monster death metal growl. the funniest shit i've ever heard.

and he's nice as fuck

amps for christ anyone? (speaking of folkiness with relations to more pummeling tunage.)
m.

i guess dwyer was providence back in the day (when ft thunder was still around). thats where pnb started. browns new band is really sub-par. the album is decent but i saw them recently and it was somewhat boring.

i saw mick barr play a solo show a month or so ago and it was amazing. i cant decide if i like him solo or orthrelm better.

which is to say I kinda like them

(And Jon beats me to the punch. DAMN YOUR QUICK FINGERS.)

"funny as hell" never encouraged me to check out any kind of music, sorry. That Nate Denver sounds awful.

"Funny as hell" defines Noise Nomads.

or andrew wk?

m.

Ian, does NN have any recordings?

they rule!
m.

In that case, it's a terrible idea.

On the Sighting's axis, should I get the Michigan Haters CD or the self-titled LP on Load? I've got the 7" and a copy of them live on WFMU. Are there any major differences between the releases? I really love the song "Chili Dog" from Michigan Haters, so that's what I'm leaning towards. Though, it's a few dollars more expensive than the LP w. screened covers and colorful vinyl.

Dropdead are also great at the grindy thing. They get boring though on LP... 7" or live is the way to go with those fuckers. They play here seriously like once a week or something.

well someone's made a respectable amount of money from him... and i'd say he's the first from the crowd....

perhaps they'll get the blood brothers to cover a sabbath tune... say "supernaut" (how good was 1000 homo djs cover of that song)... and then once they're "in"... they're in.

put kelly and jack in the video some how....
m.

of course, they're gone now, aren't they?
m.

Mon. March 10
The Sickle
Olneyville
$5 bucks or$4 with a book or books

Doors at 8PM
Books through bars benefit show w/
Municipal Waste (RVA thrash)
Yaphet Koto
lotsofnoise (p11 of 25)
Dropdead ( MP3 page)
HBBSI
Straight to hell
Die Motherfucker Kill

YEP

http://www.dropdead.org/

(Pictures at yoitsren.com in the photography section)

"You all really need to own this record. Seriously. I am not joking. By the way, this band is Mick from Orthrelm's old band. If you like Orthrelm you will love Crom-Tech. If you hate Orthrelm, you'll probably like NOFX!"

i found this record to be incredibly dull. rock trio format does jazz noise, sort of like upsilon acrux (which in this wise isn't a compliment). better off with the snyder/thompson _daily dance_ album.

It was being distributed by Load for a while, and consequently there are like 2 or 3 copies at Armageddon Shop in Providence. Maybe I'll just splurge and get both.