Rhythmn & Groove Vs Melody.

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Whats the most important in music?
Were The Beatles really more important to music than James Brown,Motown,P-Funk,Stax?

― Grant, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Can someone just copy and paste the entirety of ILM into this thread as a response?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Melody and harmony means everything. Groove means nothing. The Beatles are the single most important band in rock history (OK, Genesis should have been even more important, while James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Shouldn't that be "Groove means nothing to Genesis"?

― Burr, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:22 (twenty-three years ago)

how abt an IP addy check?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:23 (twenty-three years ago)

Groove means nothing

Phil Collins to thread....

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:23 (twenty-three years ago)

James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music.

This kinda sounds like Marcello to me, except (maybe) for the Schoenberg part. MC, what's yr take on Arnold?

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, I am not trying to be funny, but what do you mean by "mean" when you say that "Groove means nothing"? Do you mean that groove just doesn't matter? Or do you mean that melody and harmony have some sort of content, but rhythm does not?

I don't think I will ever sort out whether music really "means" anything in the sense of having some sort of content, but I will say that I find that some rhythms evoke an emotional response just as much as melody and harmony do. (But from what you've said about emoion being unimportant, this is probably not even the issue you have in mind.)

Ironic that you would mention Schonberg negatively. Isn't serialism the ultimate "head" music in your sense? I'm not saying I like it, but you can't deny that it takes a highly intellectual approach to music.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:26 (twenty-three years ago)

''I don't think I will ever sort out whether music really "means" anything in the sense of having some sort of content''

but at least you will get much further than geir.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Serialism is "head music", but "head music" doesn't have a point if it doesn't appeal to your ear. A musical genius will get no more out of a Schönberg piece than a tone deaf guy will, so the point is just lost.

As for rhythm, a groove may well be there in the background, just making sure the pulse is being held correct and all that. But the melody and its harmonies (which is also something that doesn't exist in Schönberg's "music" at all) are most important.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, What is your take on Sly & The Family Stone, Stevie Wonder, Parliament, Funkadelic, Marvin Gaye?
Each act who pisses all over the Beatles.

― Grant, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:48 (twenty-three years ago)

who will take the bait i wonder!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I share Geir's religious faith in the Beatles, but a more liberal version of it.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 17:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Whats the word for an "athiest" in regards to Orthodox Beatleism?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Lord a-mighty. Very funny, "geir," I find it hard to believe you're serious...so, good joke. Adorno...he didn't like Los Angeles, too much sunshine for 'im. Yah, the 12-tone system, the Germans...they're the ones leadin' the way, them and the fuckin' Beetles. America, it never happened. Rhythm & groove vs. melody, if you have to ask, then you need some of Louis Armstrong's Swiss Krissly laxative. Next.

― Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:13 (twenty-three years ago)

Anybody who doesn't hear melody in Parliament-Funkadelic, James Brown, or Sly and the Family Stone is NOT LISTENING; either that, or they simply CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:31 (twenty-three years ago)

BTW, "melody" is nothing more than "rhythms" where the emphasis is on note-choices rather than note-placement. Without "rhythm", there is no such thing as "melody".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Tony Banks he play the mellotron.

― Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, What is your take on Sly & The Family Stone, Stevie Wonder, Parliament, Funkadelic, Marvin Gaye?
Each act who pisses all over the Beatles.

None of those are even remotely close to "pissing all over The Beatles" although Stevie Wonder did, during the mid 70s, make several album tracks that were highly melodic and definitely among the best of that era. His singles were usually too R&B based though.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:45 (twenty-three years ago)

His singles were usually too R&B based though.

Oh, but nothing The Beatles did was "R&B based", right?

COUGHalmost everything they ever didCOUGH

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:49 (twenty-three years ago)

They all made better albums than the Beatles did.(revolver excepted)

― Grant, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:50 (twenty-three years ago)

A musical genius will get no more out of a Schönberg piece than a tone deaf guy will

That's possibly the most absurd thing you've ever said, Geir (and I'm not even a big fan of Schönberg). BY DEFINITION a musical genius will get more out of ANY piece of music than a tone-deaf guy because the musical genius will be able to hear and understand what's going on in the music!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Sorry everyone but I have to ask. Geir, what exactly is wrong with rythmn & groove?

― Grant, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Anybody who doesn't hear melody in Parliament-Funkadelic, James Brown, or Sly and the Family Stone is NOT LISTENING; either that, or they simply CHOOSE NOT TO HEAR

Or the rythm and groove in the Beatles for that manner.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

>>Can someone just copy and paste the entirety of ILM into this thread as a response? <<

www.ilxor.com

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Genius.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 18:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Or the rythm and groove in the Beatles for that manner.

For real!

For someone who proclaims themself interested in "European melodic traditions" as such, you'd think he/she/it'd choose another band as their "sacred cow" besides The "Our favorite performers are Chuck Berry and Little Richard" Beatles!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There was nothing new about music influenced by Chuck Berry and Little Richard in 1963. If that was everything they had to offer, The Beatles would never have made it outside Cavern Club. It is The Beatles' Music Hall and Tin Pan Alley influences that made them the biggest and most important band ever.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir Hongro, out of curiousity, do you ever dance?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:12 (twenty-three years ago)

>>Genius. <<

Nah. I forgot the http://. I'll do better next time.

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

HEED MY WARNING FOOLISH MORTALS, GO NO FURTHER, THIS IS A BATTLE THAT CANNOT BE WON BY THE LIKES OF YOU, FLY YOU FOOLS, FLY

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:16 (twenty-three years ago)

What Jess said.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:17 (twenty-three years ago)

It is The Beatles' Music Hall and Tin Pan Alley influences that made them the biggest and most important band ever.

Actually, it was a niche-previously-unfulfilled-in-pop-culture that made The Beatles the "most important band ever".

Had they made the EXACT same music they did, without being the center of the (Western, white) world's attention, nobody would regard them as the "most important band ever".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:19 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, it was a niche-previously-unfulfilled-in-pop-culture that made The Beatles the "most important band ever".

A musical niche, yes. The Beatles were combining the rawness of R&B with the melodic and harmonic qualities of Tin Pan Alley and Brill Building pop.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I wonder what Geir's stance on jazz is.
And he didnt answer whats wrong with rythhmn & groove.

― Nicky W, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm just curious if he ever MOVES to music.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Melody and harmony means everything. Groove means nothing.

I'm still blown away that it's possible to believe these things to be mutually exclusive of each other. Have you ever tried performing or writing music yourself?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, you cannot win here.

The Beatles were the Everly Brothers with a fucking minor seventh chord where no man had put one before, and a producer who would have been better off doing more comedy records.

― Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Bloody hell, what if I don't want to pick either?

The best bits of music are clearly TEXTURE and HARMONY.

― kate, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:35 (twenty-three years ago)

frikkin' MBV nuts.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Said as praise, of course.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Grant, are you really Geir in disguise and therefore finding a loophole around his "one-thread-a-day" agreement?

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Mmm, yummy chewy spacemen3-roasted nuts!

(ooh, that sounds dirty...)

― kate, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I wonder what Geir's stance on jazz is.

Depends a lot from album to album, artist to artist. Generally, jazz is harmonically interesting, while melodically too "free". I prefer precomposition to improvisation.

And he didnt answer whats wrong with rythhmn & groove.

There is absolutely nothing wrong about rhythm or groove. But a lot is wrong about music that seems to be about nothing else than rhythm and groove, or even about music that puts the main emphasis on anything else than melody and harmony.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:48 (twenty-three years ago)

Grant, are you really Geir in disguise and therefore finding a loophole around his "one-thread-a-day" agreement?

I have no "one-thread-a-day agreement". It is only those Top 20 lists that I will limit to one a day.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:49 (twenty-three years ago)

If I HAD to choose, I'd take rhythm over melody -- Big Joe Turner over the Beatles -- any day.

"One moment of Joe Turner singing that 'It's your dollar now, but it's gonna be mine some sweet day,' is worth more than all they (the Beatles) have ever said."
Murray Kempton, 1966

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:50 (twenty-three years ago)

Melody elitist rockism!!! Excellent!

(Well, at least I know which ILMer not to invite to my next drum circle...well, besides Ally who's also made her distaste for the "drum circle" phenomenon quite obvious in the past.)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Uuuuhhh... not to feed the trolls, but maybe it would help if you'd read the FAQ's ... we ALL made the one thread a day agreement.

― kate, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:53 (twenty-three years ago)

"One moment of Joe Turner singing that 'It's your dollar now, but it's gonna be mine some sweet day,' is worth more than all they (the Beatles) have ever said."
Murray Kempton, 1966

Sounds like one guy whose agenda was not about music, but rather about politics.

Nice enough (and I fully agree with his political agenda), but there is this nice little thing called music too, which deserved to be viewed outside political or even social contexts.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:53 (twenty-three years ago)

...but there is this nice little thing called music too, which deserved to be viewed outside political or even social contexts.

*ahem*

MUSIC

Main Entry: mu·sic
Pronunciation: 'myü-zik
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English musik, from Old French musique, from Latin musica, from Greek mousikE any art presided over by the Muses, especially music, from feminine of mousikos of the Muses, from Mousa Muse
Date: 13th century
1 a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

So, what's the deal, do you disagree with THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE over the importance of RHYTHM in MUSIC?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:57 (twenty-three years ago)

"Sounds like one guy whose agenda was not about music, but rather about politics."

What politics are you talking about (in 1966?). He was talking about the whole package.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:58 (twenty-three years ago)

rhythm as melody: snoop dogg ft neptunes - "beautiful"!

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Notice the def lists rhythm FIRST!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 19:59 (twenty-three years ago)

First musical instruments: VOICE, DRUM.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, why do you ignore my very simple question? Do you move to music or do you make sure to stand perfectly still? I mean, do you enjoy dancing?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Rhythm does also regulate the distance between the notes in a melody, so of course there has to be rhythm too. Not that the def does also list rhythm and harmony (although I would prefer if there was an "and" rather than an "or" - music should have all three or it isn't music :-) )

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:02 (twenty-three years ago)

No, I don't dance much. My music listening is usually done

a) using headphones while sitting on the bus etc.
or
b) sitting in the sofa in front of the stereo set.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:03 (twenty-three years ago)

thank ya!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:08 (twenty-three years ago)

http://tinyurl.com/6x6o

http://tinyurl.com/6x77

http://tinyurl.com/6x7c

Let it go, guys. Please. Its been done a million times.

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 20:10 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir's got us quoting Murray Kempton here now? I guess that's a good thing.

― Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 21:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, did you post as Dooxy on Salon's old Table Talk music threads?

― Chris Davis (Chris Davis), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 22:39 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, did you post as Dooxy on Salon's old Table Talk music threads?

No. You see, I am not alone in wanting the good old type of music (the one with tunes rather than grooves) back...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 22:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, have you ever seen clips of older Americans during Beatlemania?
They detest the sinful influence that the rock n roll RHYTHM has on their kids. RHYTHM is what differentiated rock n roll from the crooners who came before it. Rock n roll is groove music.
If you love melody and harmony and think heavy rhythm is unimportant, why not just listen to Mozart and other classical composers?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 22:55 (twenty-three years ago)

(Stay away from Mozart's Requiem, though, and Britten's War Requiem, and most Beethoven, and Stravinsky, etc.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:02 (twenty-three years ago)

If you love melody and harmony and think heavy rhythm is unimportant, why not just listen to Mozart and other classical composers?

Lots of beautiful music from those guys, but why should I stick to old music when a lot of new melodic great stuff has been made after WW2?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:05 (twenty-three years ago)

because it all has sinful rhythm bubbling underneath!!!

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Forget dancing: I'm wondering if Geir has ever had sex.

― Burr, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:10 (twenty-three years ago)

well surely, if he did, he didn't practice the rhythm technique

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Zing

― Ferg (Ferg), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Forget dancing: I'm wondering if Geir has ever had sex.

Oh snap.

― jm (jtm), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Sooo, last call for that island I was talking about. Anyone?

― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:30 (twenty-three years ago)

because it all has sinful rhythm bubbling underneath!!!

Nothing wrong with rhythm, as long as the melody and its harmonies remain unharmed and untouched.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Too much and you devirginize the melodies and its unusable.

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:35 (twenty-three years ago)

no offense donut bitch, but the fact that you need an island on the web to get away from things you don't like on the web seems to indicate that you perhaps should go off-line

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:37 (twenty-three years ago)

you know, like when there ain't shit on TV, I turn it off and pick up a book, go for a walk, or *gasp* have face to face interactions w/people.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:38 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not an expert, but I'd say Donut was being sarcastic.

-
Alan

― Alan Conceicao, Wednesday, 5 March 2003 23:39 (twenty-three years ago)

WHONK

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 6 March 2003 00:59 (twenty-three years ago)

This is a sad thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 March 2003 02:04 (twenty-three years ago)

The best Hendrix album is 'Band OF Gypsies' because that has groove. Also i agree that SLy & The Family Stone and Parliament/Funkadelic are better than The Beatles(who i also like)
Geir , do you consider a good rythmn section important?

― Philip Buesa, Thursday, 6 March 2003 04:46 (twenty-three years ago)

No. You see, I am not alone in wanting the good old type of music (the one with tunes rather than grooves) back...
Well, I guess considering that I demand songs with a tune AND a groove, that makes me twice as much a music buff. Ho Ho Ho.
My new motto will now be:
"Don't like it. Not 'rhythmic' enough..."

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 6 March 2003 13:58 (twenty-three years ago)

(haha Custos I say stuff like that ALL THE TIME)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 March 2003 14:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Its official...henceforth, the "Don't like it. Not 'rhythmic' enough..." meme will replace "All Your Bass Guitar Are Belong to Us" as the most irritating pop culture reference on ILM.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Thursday, 6 March 2003 14:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, do you dismiss most black music (soul,funk, garage,r'n'b,jungle,hip-hop etc) because it has rhythm and not melody? Because thats nonsense. Almost as much nonsense as suggesting James Brown was the worst thing to happen to music and the complete dismissal of Sly Stone and George Clinton.
I suspect you dont like Joy Division because hooky's bass is too upfront?

― Philip Buesa, Thursday, 6 March 2003 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

i see geir had fun last night.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 6 March 2003 16:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, why don't you buy the complete works of Mozart, Beethoven etc. before buying any more simple (it is simple, in comparison) pop music, if complex, ambititous melodic music is so important?

― man, Friday, 7 March 2003 23:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir, do you dismiss most black music (soul,funk, garage,r'n'b,jungle,hip-hop etc) because it has rhythm and not melody?

I dismiss whatever doesn't put the main emphasis on melody. The skin colour of the performer isn't important, and it shouldn't be to black people either.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 7 March 2003 23:40 (twenty-three years ago)

The best works of Genesis are actually better than anything Mozart or Brahms ever did.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 7 March 2003 23:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Why do you think they are?

― man, Friday, 7 March 2003 23:43 (twenty-three years ago)

The melodies are better, simply

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 8 March 2003 01:14 (twenty-three years ago)

How do you measure that?

― man, Saturday, 8 March 2003 01:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Advanced Calc, I think.

― jm (jtm), Saturday, 8 March 2003 02:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Counting chords, perhaps.

― man, Saturday, 8 March 2003 02:25 (twenty-three years ago)

Counting chords, perhaps.

The best works by Genesis, Mozart and Beethoven were all using more or less the maximum possible number of chords throughout anyway.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 8 March 2003 16:15 (twenty-three years ago)

The best works of Genesis are actually better than anything Mozart or Brahms ever did.
The Undead Wraith-like revenant of Mozart to thread...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 9 March 2003 02:47 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

Geir posts about Genesis in every thread i've ever read.

― Socrates, Saturday, 26 April 2003 20:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Is Genesis that band with Philip Bailey in it?

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Saturday, 26 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I believe this is one of few threads where I did actually mention Genesis without somebody else (usually somebody who hasn't got any idea what they sounded like before 1980) bringing them up at first.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 26 April 2003 21:05 (twenty-three years ago)

The best works of Genesis are actually better than anything Mozart or Brahms ever did.

Thats the funniest thing i've ever read.

― Frankie, Wednesday, 30 April 2003 00:28 (twenty-three years ago)

Waking this thread up is a crime against humanity.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Is Genesis that band with Philip Bailey in it?
Nope.
Phil Collins == Genesis
Philip Bailey == Earth Wind and Fire
Both == the "Easy Lover" Single

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 03:09 (twenty-three years ago)

Rhythm and sound are all that matter! Destroy melody! Do it now!

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 06:52 (twenty-three years ago)

(Sorry, I flipped into my "Anti-Geir" mode again. But I do really think rhythm & sound are more far important than melody. Of course that has to do with me listening to electronic music and not much else.)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 06:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Can't we just demolish both?(kidding)
Genre of noise to thread.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 07:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Though I don't like the actual sounds noise artists use (they remind me too much of heavy metal), I find the idea of a genre based purely on sound to be quite exciting. Noise = ambient in reverse, perhaps.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 07:05 (twenty-three years ago)

I find the idea of a genre based purely on sound to be quite exciting.
Yeah, too bad the output of the 'genre of noide' is so fucking lame tho.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 08:31 (twenty-three years ago)

I like when people use the noise like Bordomes and all, but i havn't heard a single track by merzbow or masonna that failed to bore me after three seconds.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 08:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Scratch that. i like some Merzbow stuff, but "eat maggot" is the only Masonna track i can listen to.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 09:22 (twenty-three years ago)

sometimes merzbow can be too into his noisy groove (which is bad luck for the rest of us).

Merzbow also does 'ambient' type stuff and that is quite different. heard a track on the radio ages ago (it had a bit of piano in there). it wasn't too bad.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 09:35 (twenty-three years ago)

You wouldn't let it lie, would you???????!!!

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 09:49 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah i know Julio, Merzbow is ok. i actually like some Whitehouse tracks, but sometimes the output doesn't come as exciting as the idea.
i'v gotta say that most of the so called 'pure noise genre' is a disappointment to me.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 10:03 (twenty-three years ago)

What "ideas" do Whitehouse have? Or is it the idea of the band you find exciting?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 12:40 (twenty-three years ago)

I actually wasn't talking about the Whitehouse idea, the idea of a band based around pure noise is pretty interesting, i actually like only one whitehouse single, the rest is pretty dud.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 12:43 (twenty-three years ago)

that revival better not have had anything to do with you 'rhythmn' boy

― Ferg (Ferg), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 12:47 (twenty-three years ago)

'rhythmn' boy? me? wtf? i wasn't talking about 'rhythmn' nor 'melody'.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 12:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean any drunk can notice the "(kidding)" tag next to my first post.

― rexJr., Wednesday, 30 April 2003 13:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Naw, didn't mean you

― Ferg (Ferg), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 13:34 (twenty-three years ago)

James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music

Yes Geir, if only these non-Aryans would stay away from music. The Nazis had a phrase for it, Entartete Musik.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 13:40 (twenty-three years ago)

The Beatles are the single most important band in rock history
*sigh*
The Beatles were a pop group, not a rock group. The Single Most Important Band in Rock History is either the Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 30 April 2003 14:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Geir's extremism notwithstanding, I would be happy to see a lot more emphasis on melody in contemporary pop, and I dance.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 30 April 2003 16:32 (twenty-three years ago)

seven years pass...

great thread, so many memories

― former moderator, please give generously (DG), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 00:40 (fifteen years ago)

omg

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 00:41 (fifteen years ago)

Waking this thread up is a crime against humanity.― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle),

hahaha oh dear. someones gonna be grumpy!

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 00:43 (fifteen years ago)

Forget dancing: I'm wondering if Geir has ever had sex.
― Burr, Wednesday, March 5, 2003 11:10 PM (7 years ago)

did we get an answer?

― former moderator, please give generously (DG), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 00:45 (fifteen years ago)

I love the fact he replied if he ever danced. Puts paid to the lie that he never interacted with anyone. The good old days indeed!

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 00:47 (fifteen years ago)

i hope d4rnielle doesn't send us to the hague

― former moderator, please give generously (DG), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 01:05 (fifteen years ago)

I want to know if Geir has changed his mind about anything in his first post.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 01:09 (fifteen years ago)

while James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music.

did Schoenberg seriously influence anybody??

― dprk funk (crüt), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 02:19 (fifteen years ago)

"lol geir, amirite?"
http://operachic.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/18/mttjb.jpg

― buzza, Tuesday, 28 September 2010 03:20 (fifteen years ago)

I dunno, Crut, it's not something I know about.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:14 (fifteen years ago)

The best works of Genesis are actually better than anything Mozart or Brahms ever did.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 7 March 2003 23:41 (7 years ago)

!!!!!!!!!!

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:20 (fifteen years ago)

Serialism is "head music", but "head music" doesn't have a point if it doesn't appeal to your ear. A musical genius will get no more out of a Schönberg piece than a tone deaf guy will, so the point is just lost.
Geir

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:25 (fifteen years ago)

tom do you remember this thread? You posted on it, does it bring back any memories?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:29 (fifteen years ago)

Steve Hackett’s 2009 album Out Of The Tunnel’s Mouth has received unanimous acclaim from the media and fans alike. Having spent much of this year touring the world with his “Around the World in 80 Trains” show he now returns to the UK to play a further 14 dates in November and December.

Such was the response to last year’s performances, Hackett and his Electric Band will be treating his legions of fans to another awe-inspiring display of virtuoso musicianship as Steve takes the audience on a remarkable and exhilarating musical journey. The new show will feature at least one additional Genesis song, as well as Sierra Quemada, Golden Age of Steam, Shadow of the Hierophant and Valley of the Kings. Fans will also be treated to a brand new, never heard before track.

Special guests Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree and John Wetton of Asia will join Steve at his Shepherds Bush Empire show for a song or two. Wetton and Hackett will perform their version of All Along the Watchtower.

Of the forthcoming UK shows, Steve says: “It's been great to take the Train on the Road tour around the world, but as Dorothy says "There's no place like home" and I'm really looking forward to touring the UK again - My electric band will be celebrating the special edition of my album "Out of the Tunnel's Mouth", along with some surprise numbers... See you in November!”

― I ain't that kind of player I just foul a lot (DJ Mencap), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:30 (fifteen years ago)

That was back when I was still making the mistake of taking Geir seriously (xp)

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:30 (fifteen years ago)

Geir doesn't do live music iirc
xp

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:31 (fifteen years ago)

but tom, geir is very serious about what he says!

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:32 (fifteen years ago)

(ps can you answer crut's question?)

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:32 (fifteen years ago)

Geir doesn't do live music iirc

For fear his foot might tap

"The straights all hate the noise we make
Because they know their heads will shake"

Iggy, "Beyond the Law"

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:34 (fifteen years ago)

(ps can you answer crut's question?)

"Influence" is a stupid concept. Schoenberg is, uh, a pretty important figure in 20th century music.

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:36 (fifteen years ago)

Geir seems to think that if it hadn't been for Arnold Schoenberg and James Brown everything would have been hunky dory (not the Bowie album) when, of course, someone else would have just had the same ideas eventually

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:39 (fifteen years ago)

He *taught* Berg, Webern, John Cage, Lou Harrison, so sure, you could claim he was an influence on those guys.

― My glowbo's ain't half itchy (NickB), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:41 (fifteen years ago)

but not on geir?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:54 (fifteen years ago)

Same haircut maybe.

― Harrison Buttwhistle (NickB), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 14:57 (fifteen years ago)

Well he influenced John Cage not to be Arnold Schoenberg, so maybe he did influence Geir after all.

― Tom A. (Tom B.) (Tom C.) (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 15:06 (fifteen years ago)

Was Geir classically trained?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 21:38 (fifteen years ago)

um Geir is definitely not classically trained

― Gene Shalit in a Child's Sailor Hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:00 (fifteen years ago)

he doesn't understand the first thing about music theory and people call him on it all the time

― Gene Shalit in a Child's Sailor Hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:01 (fifteen years ago)

The best works of Genesis are actually better than anything Mozart or Brahms ever did.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 7 March 2003 23:41 (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― The Managing Director of Being (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:11 (fifteen years ago)

Wow, that's almost like an alternate universe Geir trolling Geir. I don't even think I can get my mind around it.

― rammer jammer jan hammer (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:13 (fifteen years ago)

Geir do you still believe The best of Genesis is better than Mozart or Brahms? And which composers do you think are better than Genesis and The Beatles?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:23 (fifteen years ago)

while James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music.

^^schonberg/james brown collabo could've been like the greatest thing ever

― who's got the (platform) 9 3/4ths? (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:30 (fifteen years ago)

Geir Hongro, out of curiousity, do you ever dance?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, March 5, 2003 2:12 PM Bookmark]

This is an amazing post. Did it get excelsiored/quoted at the time?

― rammer jammer jan hammer (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 22:44 (fifteen years ago)

more than likely.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, 28 September 2010 23:25 (fifteen years ago)

shakey are you trained?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:24 (fifteen years ago)

Geir do you still believe The best of Genesis is better than Mozart or Brahms?

Genesis' best moments are better than any other music ever made in the history of Mankind.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:25 (fifteen years ago)

Otherwise, I have no problem standing by my first post, but I was a bit too harsh on Sly Stone later on. :)

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:26 (fifteen years ago)

Haha yes you were. What is your favourite sly stone album geir?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:27 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/b/b8/Bearbaiting.jpg

― dociah t. azzahole (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:28 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.search.windowsonwarwickshire.org.uk/content/images/8/17/Resource/9624-0.jpg

― dociah t. azzahole (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:29 (fifteen years ago)

"Stand!". Because it is the one who is closest to the musical spirit of whatever else was going on in SF at the time.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:29 (fifteen years ago)

Geir seems to think that if it hadn't been for Arnold Schoenberg and James Brown everything would have been hunky dory (not the Bowie album) when, of course, someone else would have just had the same ideas eventually

Maybe, maybe not. Classical music was all but dead in 1920 anyway, and the weird ideas of Stravinsky were almost as crazy, so there was no hope.

As for James Brown, I find it likely that the 60s Motown sound and the later Quiet Storm style would have been more influential on R&B and R&B and "rock" and pop would probably have melted together to a larger extent, becoming the same genre.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 19:33 (fifteen years ago)

R&B and "rock" and pop would probably have melted together to a larger extent, becoming the same genre.

Pretty sure this has already happened in the U.S. back in the Fifties

― I love cinema. My favorite movies are Citizen Kane and the Boondock Saints (KMS), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 23:45 (fifteen years ago)

Pretty sure this has already happened in the U.S. back in the Fifties

Brill Building pop maybe. Rock'n'roll lacked the melodic aspect of the pop genre.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 23:50 (fifteen years ago)

shakey are you trained?

well I don't pee on the floor

I have never gone to school for music, but I've taught myself a fair amount - have been playing music for 15+ years, can read chord charts, have read The Study of Counterpoint etc.

― pro bono toilet snaking (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 September 2010 23:57 (fifteen years ago)

Brill Building pop maybe. Rock'n'roll lacked the melodic aspect of the pop genre.

Sure, as long you don't look at what was actually charting on the pop charts at the time (in the U.S. anyway).

― I love cinema. My favorite movies are Citizen Kane and the Boondock Saints (KMS), Thursday, 30 September 2010 00:13 (fifteen years ago)

I know the US chart was dominated by Brill Building pop. Plus some early soul music that was actually quite melodic (just like Motown and Quiet Storm later on)

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 30 September 2010 10:52 (fifteen years ago)

I came here thinking this thread would be the origin of the famous "Rhythm means nothing to me and never will" quote, but I see it isn't here.

― margana (anagram), Thursday, 30 September 2010 11:54 (fifteen years ago)

I think that was a fairly recent quote.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 30 September 2010 14:42 (fifteen years ago)

six years pass...

while James Brown competes with Arnold Schönberg as for being the worst disaster ever to happen to music.
^^schonberg/james brown collabo could've been like the greatest thing ever

In honour of this thread, and with love to Geir, I just created a Pandora station built around just these two artists: https://www.pandora.com/station/3727513725785488329

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 3 September 2017 13:49 (eight years ago)

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