Convince me that electronic music isn't a total dud

Ulrich Schnauss, Far Away Trains Passing By

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/experimental/reviews/schnaussulrich_farawaytrains.shtml

I'd stay away from Come To Daddy, not very accessible

Why'd you go and say a thing like that? It was the bit about liking Primal Scream, wasn't it?

also, portishead's s/t album.

Any Aphex Twin stuff, but since you're a rockist, start with COME TO DADDY and then get RICHARD D. JAMES or I CARE BECAUSE YOU DO

An excellent starting point would also be a compilation called THE COSMIC FORCES OF MU, which has a lot of great stuff, very varied.

Other stuff to try that *isn't* guitar based but is adventurous and interesting:

Squarepusher GO PLASTIC
Autechre CONFIELD, CHIASTIC SLIDE
mu-ziq (can't make the Greek mu, sorry) ROYAL ASTRONOMY, LUNATIC HARNESS
Leafcutter John MICROCONTACT, CONCOURSE E.E.P.
Jega GEOMETRY
Matmos A CHANCE TO CUT IS A CHANCE TO CURE, THE WEST (which has guitars)

That should be enough for now.

anyway, these are terrible choices by and large, but i understand they're "rockist" standbys. i agree with music has a right to children (and maybe partially i care because you do but that era of idm has aged so badly for me.)

"electronic" albums that have moved me, maaaaan, in the last year or so:

herbert - secondhand sounds (k7 were supposed to reissue around the house and if your store has it, go for that first)
recloose - cardiology
m mayer - immer
mri - all that glitters
farben - texstar
adult. - the singles comp i forget the name of right now
kevin drumm - sheer hellish miasma (ha ha if you liked "mbv arkestra", try this)

me! ... except chicks on speed and tracy and the plastics

Add N to X = win!

the books - thought for food

Problem is, it seems that the only electronic music that gets any distribution is the stuff with (usually WAY-cheezy) lyrics. You gotta go to the DJ shop to get the good stuff.

Personally, I find the "trying to break out of the box" side of electro quite soulful these days. It's like wether you consider a lot of extreme jazz stuff to be soulful or not. You either do, or it takes a bit of a leap of faith, or you just ignore it.

Recommendations
For a mellow introduction - Bomb the Bass's Clearcut EP, Mum, Rei Harakami
For a funky / hip hop style introduction - DJ Food, Kid Loco, Thievery Corporation, Q-Bert
For a jazzy introduction - the Breakbeat Era EP, Amon Tobin, Squarepushers "Feed Me Wierd Things". I think Go Plastic is a bit much for an introduction!

re: one of the earlier posts--is there any way that the term IDM could be banned from use ever again? is has to be the stupidest term ever...

Um, yes, I do. I really love DRUKQS, and I hope he continues putting out more piano stuff. The creepier, the better, says I.

I'm a rockist who actually *plays* "electronica" (I really, REALLY hate that term, as well as IDM), but the stuff I really love is not beat-oriented stuff, but rather the stuff that is not neatly slotted into any one genre. It all depends on how you're exposed to it - if you don't like to dance, chances are the records that are made for clubs will not do it for you.

I also am a big fan of downtempo stuff--Fila Brazilia's 'Power Clown' and 'A Touch of Cloth' are pretty good.
Plus, Blue States--Nothing New Under the Sun
Tosca--Suzuki
(these may all be too loungey/coctail party for you)

Dislikes: "Hey Matt! What do you think of Max Martin's production and songs?" "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!"

nitsuh, i am not interested in appeasing the touchy feely tendencies of rockists! throw the baby in the deep end!

Talvin Singh's OK and Ha; electronic-meets-organic, futuristic-meets-traditional, "old world"-meets-"new world", East-meets-West, it's quite a worth-checking-out contribution to the world of music. It's blending of samples and loops and live instrumentation should be able to give even the most rockist rockist something to keep them interested. Plus, it's just fuckin' bad-ass shit.

Here's my recommendation:

Supercollider "Dual".
(note: NOT NOT NOT the "Super_collider" from England, the Supercollider that was from Los Angeles.. )

Or maybe Disco Inferno "D.I. Go Pop"?

If we're going to allow guitars, then I'd consider these records excellent lily pads to electronic music from a more hypnotic, repetitive, drone rock world.

"maybe more if they're really outstanding"
Oh Yeah, get OHM: gurus of electronic early stuff.

also BoardsOfCanada - Geogaddi, Music has the right to children, Books - Thought for food, mùm

Does synth pop count? then Orchestral Maneauvers in Dark, Mecano, Ultravox, Japan, etc etc

Tom, as for what i don't really like in most electronic music... Actually that's a tougher question to answer than i'd like. I'd say that a lot of it has to do with the fact that it just doesn't move me. What i've heard tends to make for okay background music or film music (but man, that's overdone in the states, don't know about the UK) but as something to listen to in and of itself, nah.

Here's probably the one place where GH and i overlap, in that i tend to listen to music in a home/office setting (though i'm not a headphone astronaut) and not in a club setting (frankly, i've never felt comfortable in clubs, for a variety of reasons that would be better relayed on ILE). I don't dance. I'm a relatively awkward and gawky guy with no fashion sense (why i can't stand mathrock is beyond me, as i'd be the perfect stereotype other than my lack of prescription eyewear.)

This isn't to say that i don't like electronic music as a whole. Far from it. The _Ohm_ compilation from a couple years back is one of my favorite releases ever. Probably because it is music made by people before they knew there were rules for making electronic music.

Frankly, most of what i've heard in electronic music (which somehow has become synonymous with dance music) has bored me to tears (but i didn't put that in the thread title, fearing an all-out jihad). Why? Maybe because it's like i feel there's no there there, if you can follow that.

Ned's right in that i like the improvisational aspect of some of the freer rock forms (but there's just as much of that stuff that makes me wanna scream and smash my stereo, so i don't listen to that.) Free jazz, ironically, doesn't do much for me on record, but is much more enjoyable in a live setting. I don't have a problem with repetition (hence my unabiding love for Spacemen 3, Loop and other bands of the stoner rock ilk.) Who's Max Martin?

I dunno. Maybe i'd have to hear this stuff live or in a *gulp* club, where they can really move the air around. I like Ministry, but can't stand Atari Teenage Riot (maybe it's 'cos of the faux-political ranting). Hurm. Maybe i should come at it from the Front 242/Neubaten/etc. axis first. Funny, but _Trans Europe Express_ by Kraftwerk didn't do much for me (but _Vision Creation Newsun_ rocks me down to the subatomic level.)

Thanks all, for the replies. Will track down what i'm able, and what my budget allows.

I fear no deep end.

also:
I don't dance. I'm a relatively awkward and gawky guy with no fashion sense

If you go to the right club, none of this will matter at all.

VHS or Beta, an amazing electro band with guitars and vocoders and beats and loops and fun and WOO HOO they put on a good show!

(Where are these 'right' or 'wrong' clubs that and awkward non-dancer should go to?)

I vote for the second, which i find slightly more embarrassing.

Skinny Puppy
Severed Heads
Front Line Assembly
My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult
Nitzer Ebb
A Split Second
Poesie Noire
Test Dept
Latour
Lords of Acid
Channel X
The Prodigy
Elevator 101
80 AUM
Human Resource
Shut Up And Dance
Hyper-On Experience
The House Crew
SPK
Pankow
Bizarre Inc
Eon
Underworld
Aphex Twin
Squarepusher
Amon Tobin
Cabbageboy
Fluke
Doubting Thomas
Download
Shriekback (pushing it, I know)
Ater Koma
Systema The Affliction
Cat Rapes Dog
Well Hung Parliament
Alter8/DJ Nex/Nexus 21
Orbital
808 State

I believe he is asking for 'electronic music' rather than 'snobbish limitations.'

Which is not to say electronic music is cold and inhuman. But it does not impose any sort of perspective on you. And so there are very few electronic music videos which work.

[Watching a music video for a song I like is, to me, like watching an interview with Dan Castellaneta. As soon as I see it's coming on, I have to turn it immediately or the song is ruined for life].

A good example of this is the Boards Of Canada phenomenon. Here are two guys who make incredible beautiful, synth-based, proggy downtempo with nice, simple beats. It's timeless and filled with lush and lovely moments, and even some imagery provided by anonymous samples, but never do you think they're communicating some message or perspective. That part is up to you.

And again, it's about the creation and delivery of sound. Consider the usage of pseudonyms by Aphex Twin or the Kompakt crew. There is no pretense involved. Aphex, given his numerous different names, can always surprise you and is not tied down by any preconcieved idea. [Although maybe that in itself is a preconcieved idea]. Or look at FSOL and Humanoid.

Trying to compare electronic music to rock simply cannot be done, and those elements of crossover between the two can be thrown out. And the superstar DJ phenomenon is also ridiculous to me. Just keep those slabs of wax coming, and make sure they sound great, are not exclusively tied into a dopey subgenre [like drum and bass] and make sure I can put it on in 2054 and still groove/mellow out to it.

From what I understand, Boards of Canada live on a commune in Scotland and have well-over 80 cassettes of unreleased music. 80! But this is perhaps just a legend...

Upthread The Prodigy's Music For The Jilted Generation was recommended and I'd go for that, it's been many an indie kid's entry point and passes the test of time well as a genuine dance classic, one of the best albums ever I reckon. Forget about the lack of guitars, it's got exactly the same gnnnohyessss as XTRMNTR and, no snickering, that's another of my faves. You'll be hooked in no time.

Chris Cunningham to thread!

-- jess (dubplatestyl...), March 6th, 2003 1:26 PM. (later) (dubplatestyle)

jess this is unintentionally hilarious, and yes, the record is a bit opaque but i was just asking you about it because it doesnt need its own thread.

I was only suggesting guitars as they're relatively familiar. Probably not the smartest thing i've ever done.

matt, if you're drawn to dronerock and/or improvisational structures, i would recommend everything on the smalltown supersound label, especially alog. very interesting fusion of electronics and live instrumentation, all boiled down into a dense, groggy mass. i'm doing a shit job of explaining it but just trust me on this one.

Listen before you buy.

Many of my rockist friends find this very counterintuitive, and even the ones interested in electronic music are uncomfortable grabbing a stack of records and listening to them. But I find it essential.

This is why any store that has any pretenses to selling electronic music (which most decent indie stores nowadays do) should have a turntable/cd player and headphones available. I advise you to listen listen listen.

Also, if you want to hear some house/breaks, I've posted a segmented mix to my Yahoo briefcase:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/schwantzter/

You'll need to download Stuffit expander to join the files together, but it's a free program, so...

And if this post is considered spam, I'm sorry - I'll never do it again.

In reply to the original poster: 'MDMA' by 'Ecstasy' might be the answer!!!

-Seefeel "Quique" or "Ch:Vox" !!!!!
-Aphex Twin "Selected Ambient Works II"
-Mark Van Hoen "Playing With Time"
-Sun Electric "Kitchen"
-Black Dog "Bytes"
-Gas "Pop"
-Biosphere "Patashnik"
-Future Sound of London "Lifeforms"
-Sabres of Paradise "Sabresonic"
-Ultramarine "User's Guide" (for some reason more than anything else by them...)
-Underworld "Dubnobasswithmyheadman"
-VA: Speicher 2 (strange one... but all my "rockist" friends think this comp is amazing but, not the first one.)
-Sanso Xtro "Sentamentalist"
-a majority of the Profan titles, seemed to be a turning point for rockists that became latent electronic fanatics in the 90's...

There are also a lot of early bands that friends of mine who are rockists have liked certain records by... but, that is for a different discussion I would think. Kraftwerk, first two of OMD, bits of DM, Fad Gadget, Cabaret Voltaire, etc...

gofigure indeed. souvlaki is also great.

After all, what's "electronic music" anyway? All the music you listen to is sound, and it's all recorded sound, and it's all electronically recorded sound, and most of it now is probably digitally recorded or reproduced sound.

That said, you might find that there is something about the sound product of "actual instruments" you like better than the sound product of most computer music. But in the right hands electronic sounds can be as subtle and textured as acoustic instruments, even if they can't replicate the exact same kinds of textures.

That said, I recommend maybe starting with DJ Shadow, because he uses so many samples that involve "real instruments." But the things he does with them might subtly make you question the line between what is and isn't "electronic music".

But Tangerine et al, especially, because I wonder if part of the barrier to "getting into electronic music" in 2005 is perhaps some kind of analouge nostalgia/mistaken belief in it's superiority over digital? Anything that helps ease people into realising the gap isn't actually as distinct as it seems could be useful. And that instruments are just instruments, whether it's guitar/drums/bass or 303/808/sampler. It's all capable of emotional expression in different ways.

I have certain friends who still can't get 'into it'. It's frustrating not being able to get them to make the leap. Especially because it's not that I hate rock/guitar music, or am totally biased towards 'Dance" just that SO MUCH of it... sucks balls, has close to zero imagination/interesting production/original melodies or thematic inspiration by comparison to the majority of electronic music (dance, or otherwise) I stumble across these days personally. And these are BOOM TIMES for guitar rock!

But they aren't even hearing it. It's like holding out watching only black and white television because it "expresses feelings better, and has more soul". Not a direct quote but AAArrrgh!!

I think everything else explained itself from then onwards. That could possibly be the most enlightening, useful piece of advice I've been given in my whole life.

essence of rockism right here. electronic sounds can be as textured? i would say electronic sounds always ARE as textured. does a formica table have less texture than sandpaper? just because your hand slides smoothly over it, does that mean your fingers feel less? do your nerves do less work? does your eardrum transmit fewer signals along the nerves to your brain when it hears an 8-bit drum sample than when it hears someone in a room pluck an acoustic guitar?

from what i've heard, yes.

xpost i don't see what that has to do with this

you are arguing that "textural interest" is somehow related to the complexity of the waveform??

i guess i'm using texturally "interesting" as a synonym for "complex". in general, people prefer complex sounds like a guitar pluck to that of a radar ping. you though are free to dig whatever sounds you choose to, baby.

the pop charts disagree

xpost don't think so. name me one hit song that consisted of pure tones.

in general, people prefer complex sounds like a guitar pluck to that of a radar ping.

ok i dunno about that. sometimes i want a chocolate cake and sometimes i just want a small, perfect piece of chocolate.

exactly.

well, there you have it. easy assumptions about music based on status quo of rock instruments (although i question how easy and natural is it to substituting "interesting" for "complex", esp in the garage rock revival era?) quickly becoming normative statements (also suspect: given the popularity of lil jon and the neptunes, you've got to really wonder what people prefer in general). that's your rockism right there, baby.

Fair point!

it's both! some simple sounds are very pleasing, some sounds with very rich textures are not. more of my music is made of sine waves than recorded instruments, but yeah, a guitar string has a richer texture than a pure tone.

marble, by the way, is a very rich texture: it's translucent, each piece has unique strands of color (hence the word "marbled") etc.

dude, kieth, my apologies.

For me, Endtroducing just happened to be the bridge, because the music all sounded "organic" or whatever, and that allowed me to get past my prejudice and really dig it. But the more I listened, I realized he was making the samples do things that "real instruments" couldn't do -- like taking real drum sounds but playing them in rapid succession and making them decay immediately. Hence my barriers to electronic music started to lower.