Most shaggable indie chick (sorry, I'm bored right now...) (Caution not safe for work. Also Caution Daisy Chainsaw.)

http://www.jetsetrecords.com/images/bands/luna/lunalive5.jpg

...and, of course, the `Hotnights.

http://www.jetsetrecords.com/images/home/sahara-latenight.gif

If we're talking real indie, it's all about the Hot Pursuit/Tuscadero/BOCS gurls.

isobel from belle and sebastian is hot. justine is prob the fairest of them all, though.

and carrie brownstein from sleater-kinney gets my vote too.

Ha-hem. OK, maybe this is coz she looks like a dirty dronerock girl, but my oh my. As astonishingly photogenic as she is, she is even sexier in person. She's also tall, too, which is surprising - she's nearly as tall as me, which few female rock stars (that aren't Kim Gordon) are.

So, in the meantime:

Vive la Hayes.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/%7Elalitree/me/images/sw2.jpg

i love the following things: racoon eyes, blanche dubois, vampires. i also love: older women, good hair, drummers, big bottoms.

Witnesseth.

there are plenty of cool girls in all genres including rock and roll.
the idea that a good fifty percent of the worlds population lack in musical talent b/c they lack a penis between their legs makes no sense whatsoever.

anyways the apples in stereo suck. gettin sick of all these kindercore indie-shit beatles revivalists.

l8r

here y'go

http://www.leslieccy.net/blackboxrecorder/images/chrisdeburgh.jpg

http://www.londonstudent.org.uk/9issue/images/prolapse1.jpg

Dan Perry??

Jim, you are right.

What? Even when she's being sub-Paul-Shaffer to Johnny Vaughn's sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-Letterman?

oh and amber valentine from jucifer. hotand hot.

really? i always thought she was a bit ewww

Brilliant Rump.

http://130.94.20.88/melissa/im56892a.jpg
http://130.94.20.88/melissa/k2.jpg
http://130.94.20.88/melissa/mlive1.jpg

Well, then she wins.

In fact, I think I shall:
http://www.callandresponsemusic.com/pictures6.html

(BTW have you checked out the new mp3s on the C&R website? It looks like the next lp will be EVEN BETTER than the first. 'Curves in a straight line' is my favourite song of the year so far.)

http://www.callandresponsemusic.com/images/simone_b_w.jpg

Who knew Neko Case had such great legs?

http://www.noisedfisk.com/mumweb/photos/mumberlin05.jpg

http://www.universalmusic.it/tatu/images/tatu.jpg

http://awry.tripod.com/images/press_trio/iron3.jpg

I'll give you Justine, but here in the States I haven't seen her in eight years...

What, Hole and the Pumpkins aren't indie?

kate: yes

I'll take Katie Jane. Female ILXorists can fight over Crispin and the bass player (loser gets the drummer).

PR0G R0x0R 0\/\/|\|z YUO ALL!!!!1!!1!@#~

SUBM!+ +0 ARS NOVA!!1!!!1!!!

http://www.progressiveworld.net/jpg/arsnova_band4.jpg

*sheds tear*

http://citypaper.net/articles/020702/pics/big/pk.shannon1.jpg

Strange a lot of people mention Justine Frischmann (who does nothing to me at all), but no-one seems to remember Donna Matthews. She had her good moments!

Kate? Are you there? Jaaaasooooon Pieeeeerce. Briiiiiiian Joooooones. Dirrrrrrrty Drohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnrock Boyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys...

Consider that a gauntlet well and truly thrown down.

I used to like it in the 80s when feminists would protest outside WH Smith coz they were selling Razzle.

I didn't realise that's why the feminist groups were protesting outside WH Smiths!

I remember my sister signed their petition for some reason and they said that porn 'turned men into rapists'. I've always been confused by this. I just don't get how seeing a picture of a naked body can turn you into an aggresive psychopath.

Any ideas?

A good idea might perhaps be to GROW THE FUCK UP, LAMER.

"Shaggable" = thee language ov a LAM3R!!

"Plus it actually occurs to me that p0rn is, for the most part shit that does actually objectify wimmin (that little neologism is especially for you cal_um) presenting them as meat/fuck objeckts and as such, is perhaps not that great a thing, really."

Right then. And women don't in any, way shape or form AGREE to be presented as 'meat/ fuck objeckts'??? Besides which, porn actually exploits men surely? Men are paid much less than women in porn and men are the ones shelling out cash for the 'pleasure' of seeing a porn film/ mag et al

How porn can 'objectify women' is puzzling. Surely a women being presented as having a healthy sexual libido is not objectifying them any more or any less than presenting a male in the same way is? Are you familiar with the feminist writer Camille Paglia? I only ask because she is very, very pro-pornography and, yet, by your standards she would somehow be a traitor to the female race. I'm not saying I agree with all Paglia writes (far from it) but she, like some other well known contemporary feminists, has never swallowed this 'objectifying women' crap either. Or should I presume that you are simply very conservative?

By the way - every Saturday night young girls around the UK dress in very little and go out to night clubs with the express purpose of finding someone to shag. Are they wrong to do this? By your arguement surely they are because, at the end of the day, a woman's place is to exhibit no form of sexuality at all.

Men also, I should add, agree to be presented as 'meat/ fuck objects'. I wouldn't mind being presented as this I should add. In fact, I'd be quite flattered. Heaven forbid a woman should feel the same way though coz after all they only go into porn with a gun at their head and cocaine stuffed up their nose.

"Looking back @ thee 1980's, one of the things I liked and am quite nostalgick abt is that people would actually go out & protest abt stuff like this."

Yes, like protesting against 'video nasties' while celebrating the Falklands victory and the death of many Argentinians. Oh, The Daily Mail awaits you. The problem is that if you are going to protest about something it helps if the people protesting against it have some facts rather than just a naive and very silly attempt to shout out loud against things they find personally offensive (which is the nature of censorship).

"Now of course, one can walk past rows & rows of k-l@m3 "Lad mags" w/their photoshopped pics of BURDZ on the covers and hey! it's allright!! Who but a PC phun hater would find it objectionable!!!??? Except for tha fact that actually - - - - ->>>>>> it's shit! Me, I don't like shit! How about that!?!?"

I don't really give a shit either so I agree with you on that. And, for the record, I've never seen a porn film I've enjoyed (you're right - they are shit... but I'm not an expert on the subject and Derek Malcolm did rate 'Behind the Green Door' as one of the 100 best films ever made, so perhaps I should see that before making this assumption?!?). But, hey, here's a radical though - each to their own, and if someone enjoys getting naked for the cameras then why not?

They do it for the money Calum. Lots of people do all kinds of shitty things for the money. The fact that men are paid less in p0rn is completely irrelevant, I mean, so the fuck what? They're mugs! And guess what! There are these people who actually get paid more than the women performers in porn! Lots more as well!! The poeple who make it! Most of whome are.... (fill in answer yourself)

How porn can 'objectify women' is puzzling. Surely a women being presented as having a healthy sexual libido is not objectifying them any more or any less than presenting a male in the same way is?

Porn does not present women as having "A healthy sexual libido", it presents them as people who are there for YOU, who are willing to, who want to fuck YOU (IE ther "User") This is a lie. It is actually to wank over. If you were to meet the actual model, she wouldn't know who you are and probably wouldn't want to get it on w/you either. Look at the top shelf of a pr0n-specialising newsagent near you. Count the magazines featuring women for the consumption of men, then count the magazines featuring men for the consumption of women.
Then come back to me & try to use some rubbish equivalancy argument re depiction of men vs depiction of wimmin.

Are you familiar with the feminist writer Camille Paglia? I only ask because she is very, very pro-pornography and, yet, by your standards she would somehow be a traitor to the female race. I'm not saying I agree with all Paglia writes (far from it) but she, like some other well known contemporary feminists, has never swallowed this 'objectifying women' crap either. Or should I presume that you are simply very conservative?

Camille Paglia is a pathetic reactionary buffoon. She is the print media equivalent of a usenet troll. I can't think of a well-known feminist who agrees w/Paglia about anything. I believe it would be a stretch to call Paglia a feminist at all. Or in fact anything other than a canny self-publicist with a good vocabulary.

Assuma away about my politicks cal_um. I am an Anarcho-Syndicalist FWIW. My political hero is Nestor Makhno. The way you write, I would be suprised if yopu politikal hero wasn't PJ O'rourke.

By the way - every Saturday night young girls around the UK dress in very little and go out to night clubs with the express purpose of finding someone to shag. Are they wrong to do this? By your arguement surely they are because, at the end of the day, a woman's place is to exhibit no form of sexuality at all.

Young wimmin going out on thee pull is totally irrelevant to what I said, and you know it. Don't try to deflect calum, because I'm not that stupid. I do not think in terms of "a woman's place", women can do what the fukc they want to as far as I'm concerned.

Men also, I should add, agree to be presented as 'meat/ fuck objects'. I wouldn't mind being presented as this I should add. In fact, I'd be quite flattered. Heaven forbid a woman should feel the same way though coz after all they only go into porn with a gun at their head and cocaine stuffed up their nose.

Sorry, you've just completely lost me here. What the fukc are you on about exactly? How is this relevant?

Yes, like protesting against 'video nasties' while celebrating the Falklands victory and the death of many Argentinians. Oh, The Daily Mail awaits you. The problem is that if you are going to protest about something it helps if the people protesting against it have some facts rather than just a naive and very silly attempt to shout out loud against things they find personally offensive (which is the nature of censorship).

You're trying to deflect again, and putting words into my mouth that I would never say. I have never protested against video nasties, but hey! Get this! I think they're shit! And often sexist as well!! I would rather they didn't exist! I'd much rather watch "Andrei Rubylev" than "Driller Killer!" Goddammit! I never realised that I could have been a mail leader writer all along!

Calum, I reserve the right to shout aout loud against things I find offensive. It is not "the nature of censorship", that's bullshit, it's just having an actual opinion about stuff, IE one that comes from actually thinking about stuff. If you'd rather people didn't do that, then perhaps it's you who has the censor mentality.

I don't really give a shit either so I agree with you on that.

Haha I said "I don't like shit", not "I don't give a shi". Top marks for reading & comprehension!!

And, for the record, I've never seen a porn film I've enjoyed (you're right - they are shit... but I'm not an expert on the subject and Derek Malcolm did rate 'Behind the Green Door' as one of the 100 best films ever made, so perhaps I should see that before making this assumption?!?).

Perhaps, but I wouldn't break a sweat over it to be honest.

But, hey, here's a radical though - each to their own, and if someone enjoys getting naked for the cameras then why not?

Whatever, but if you are assuming that people get naked for the cameras because they "enjoy it", then good luck, and you may be interested in this London Bridge that I've got for sale, cheap.

Here's a more radical thought than yours. I have a right not to like porn. I have a right to find the values presented in porn personally objectionable. I have a right to think that the producers of porn are objectionable assholes for the most part. I have a right to reject the values of porn. They do not represent me or my libido I do not have the right to ban or censor it, but I DO have the right to wish there was a bit less of it (IE it was a bit less in yer face as it were), and to wish that that porn that is out there was/is of much better quality, & more couple orientated, rather than LAMER ORIENTATED.

Right?

Subordinate: ...but don't you think its degrading...how the men all look at us when we wear...this.
Emma Frost: Here you are mistaken. When they look at you, it degrades you. When they look at me, it degrades them.

I don't know why, but that scene always stuck to my brain.

This is actually not neccessarily true. Porn stars as well known as Tera Patrick and Jenna Jamieson are now millionairres and continue to strip, star in porn films, pose for porn magazines because - shock of all shocks - they enjoy it. Jenna recently gave a well publicised speech at Oxford in which she stated that she was never forced into porn or did it out of anything other than wanting to do it. You'll find that most of the well known names in porn (including Marilyn Chambers who could have achieved mainstream success following appearing David Cronenberg's 'Rabid' but who went back to porn) are well enough off to quit. I agree that at the sleazier end many women will be in the business for money, but it is patently obvious that many are not. I'm starting to sound like an expert on the subject and I'm honeslty not... (no, honestly!).

"Lots of people do all kinds of shitty things for the money. The fact that men are paid less in p0rn is completely irrelevant"

How is it? Your arguement was that porn exploits women. My arguement is that porn exploits men more that it does women. If in any other industry a woman was paid half what a man was for the same job then people would say it was sexist. It's very relevant!

"There are these people who actually get paid more than the women performers in porn! Lots more as well!! The poeple who make it! Most of whome are.... (fill in answer yourself)"

Erm... women as well as men? Most of the top women performers from yesteryear are now today's women directors and studio operators. Again, this is a falsehood. There are as many women in power in the industry as there are men in power.

"Porn does not present women as having "A healthy sexual libido", it presents them as people who are there for YOU, who are willing to, who want to fuck YOU (IE ther "User")"

Erm... really? And how does this work exactly? I've never thought I was going to get laid by a porn star!?!? Are you crediting people who watch erotic material with any brain cells?

"This is a lie. It is actually to wank over. If you were to meet the actual model, she wouldn't know who you are and probably wouldn't want to get it on w/you either."

Erm... duh. Common sense would tell you that. If I met Britney Spears I wouldn't have thought she'd want to shag me either. Point is?

"Look at the top shelf of a pr0n-specialising newsagent near you. Count the magazines featuring women for the consumption of men, then count the magazines featuring men for the consumption of women.
Then come back to me & try to use some rubbish equivalancy argument re depiction of men vs depiction of wimmin."

Well... that all comes down to supply and demand. A mate of mine works in a specialist comic and magazine store and he gets plenty of female customers going into the porn section. A young girl at my work has a porn stash and three vibrators. It's just not as common for women to like porn than men. Likewise, less men have vibrators than women. That doesn't mean the vibrator industry is sexist though surely???

"Camille Paglia is a pathetic reactionary buffoon. She is the print media equivalent of a usenet troll. I can't think of a well-known feminist who agrees w/Paglia about anything. I believe it would be a stretch to call Paglia a feminist at all. Or in fact anything other than a canny self-publicist with a good vocabulary."

Well it depends how you define feminist. Which by your usage is anyone who shows off anymore than an ankle and who dares to have sex outside of marriage. Sorry, but you're very conservative.

"Assuma away about my politicks cal_um. I am an Anarcho-Syndicalist FWIW. My political hero is Nestor Makhno. The way you write, I would be suprised if yopu politikal hero wasn't PJ O'rourke."

Actually, it's probably Peter Singer. And Nelson Mandela. And Hans Reusch...

"Young wimmin going out on thee pull is totally irrelevant to what I said, and you know it. Don't try to deflect calum, because I'm not that stupid. I do not think in terms of "a woman's place", women can do what the fukc they want to as far as I'm concerned."

So what's the problem then? I've seen women in nightclubs who are exploiting themselves for personal sexual gain. I once went out with a girl who got married into money. Hey, it paid for her Masters and her PhD. She had thoughts like yours funnily enough, yet failed to see what a slave to cash she actually was and how embarrassed many females would be by her.

"Sorry, you've just completely lost me here. What the fukc are you on about exactly? How is this relevant?"

It's relevant because I am saying I'd be happy to be presented as a 'fuck object'. So therefore I don't see why it would be far fetched to imagine that others might also feel this way.

"have never protested against video nasties, but hey! Get this! I think they're shit!"

Is this based upon a careful consideration of the cinematic merits of Dario Argento? Or have you by chance glimpsed a few horror movies and decided they suck? Some video nasties were actually very good examples of contemporary cinema ('Inferno' and 'Tenebrae' especially).

"And often sexist as well!!"

Now I know you don't know what you're talking about. Many of the nasties were anything but sexist... Some were, true, but many were not. Especially not Driller Killer (or indeed the wide ouvre of Abel Ferrarra which I presume you're familiar with seeing as how he went on to work with such names as Madonna, Harvey Kietel, Matthew Modine et al and direct some of 90s cinemas most interesting movies?).

"I would rather they didn't exist!"

Ah yes, so those who saw 'Driller Killer' and realised that Abel Ferrarra was actually a very talented filmmaker and who gave him the springboard in which to launch his career and go on to make such acclaimed masterworks as 'Bad Lieutenant' and 'The Funeral' were WRONG!

"I'd much rather watch "Andrei Rubylev" than "Driller Killer!" Goddammit! I never realised that I could have been a mail leader writer all along!"

Erm... well I wouldn't and nor would many film critics (I'm thinking of the esteemed Kim Newman here who is one of Ferrarra's most vocal supporters). I'd also take Dario Argento over most modern filmmakers myself, and Sam Raimi has proven popular with 'Spider Man' hasn't he? Just as well you weren't funidng 'The Evil Dead' or this young fellow might not have had a career. Yeah, you've a great eye for film!

"Calum, I reserve the right to shout aout loud against things I find offensive. It is not "the nature of censorship", that's bullshit, it's just having an actual opinion about stuff, IE one that comes from actually thinking about stuff. If you'd rather people didn't do that, then perhaps it's you who has the censor mentality."

I'm all for your opinions. They just seem ill informed babble.

"Whatever, but if you are assuming that people get naked for the cameras because they "enjoy it", then good luck, and you may be interested in this London Bridge that I've got for sale, cheap."

Erm... I think I've proven this point with examples. Which is more than you've done...

"Here's a more radical thought than yours. I have a right not to like porn. I have a right to find the values presented in porn personally objectionable. I have a right to think that the producers of porn are objectionable assholes for the most part."

How many have you known or met? I've spoken to a chap who made some skidrow porn (he also directed 'Last House on Dead End Street') and he was a well read, intelligent, educated chap.

"I have a right to reject the values of porn. They do not represent me or my libido I do not have the right to ban or censor it, but I DO have the right to wish there was a bit less of it (IE it was a bit less in yer face as it were), and to wish that that porn that is out there was/is of much better quality, & more couple orientated, rather than LAMER ORIENTATED."

I'm pretty sure that a lot of porn is couple orientated as it so happens. I don't see how it's in your face. From your arguements it seems to me you know little about pornography which maybe indicates how little of it is in your face. Sad to say but as long as people like you exist sex will always remain something to stick under the bed, or hide in the cupboard. Maybe your partner (if you have one) and you should actually indulge in some sex that isn't missionary one day...

I think there's a double standard with porn - on the one hand it's defenders will say yeah it's just entertainment, there's a demand for it etc but it's not held to anything like the same standards other kinds of entertainment are - the amount of sexist and racist nonsense you get in a porno film would be totally unacceptable in any other movie medium. But it gets peoples dicks hard so that's OK. Well it gets my dick hard but I can still see that it's not making for a particularly healthy environment. Also the idea that it's a straight choice between an anything goes porn=k-kewl world and one where ankles are daring is absurd.

Assuming that although you consume stuff and 'are okay' but that others might consume that same material and 'not be okay' is highly offensive and the reasoning that Christopher Tookey from The Daily Mail has used in the past to try and gain a ban on films such as Crash, Lolita, Natural Born Killers et al

It's like having a gas-guzzling car. It feels GREAT to drive it really fast everywhere but it now turns out that in doing so you are gradually fucking up the environment, even though that one drive isn't harming you or even making more than a teeny-tiny contribution to the overall problem. My hunch - and that's all it is, it's pretty much impossible to measure anyway - is that the content of current porn damages our social environment in some way.

*(Actually if anything I've noticed that using porn makes me a little more jaded and less responsive to more subtle sexual stimuli so I do think there are bad effects and I assume I'm not the only person to encounter them.)

Yes, but Tom where did I indicate this? Or this:

"Also the idea that it's a straight choice between an anything goes porn=k-kewl world and one where ankles are daring is absurd."

Personally I don't enjoy hardcore porn. I don't get turned on by men spraying their load over women's faces. Others do and that's fine by me. Each to their own. I see nothing abnormal about that, or anything that needs censored. I remember watching a programme that looked at the effects of porn on viewers and one researcher stated that all watching lots of porn seems to do to its viewers is make them more aware of potential sexual positions.

I don't know what content you mean incidently. The UK outlawed hardcore porn until 2000 and I don't see society getting any better or any worse. I'd like to see some proof in your arguement that porn damages our 'social environment'. I'd say that this is ridiculous. But as I've said, if porn is having a negative effect on you I'd advise you stop using it.

Availability of content: the Internet is pretty much ensuring that except in heavily censored environments the world's obscenity laws end up basically in line with the US's obscenity laws.

Social environment: I'm not sure how I'd prove it - like I said, it's a hunch. This board is where we think out opinions, not spec out research projects. Another analogy - the rightwing press's attitude to asylum seekers, using individually factual stories to reinforce stereotypical and prejucided ideas about what 'asylum seekers' are and do. I would argue this degrades the social environment too even though probably no act of abuse towards an asylum seeker could be directly traced back to a newspaper article or Tory speech. (And I'm not talking about criminal acts, just the way people behave in everyday life.) My guess is that the way that women, men, blacks, Asians, etc. appear in porn has similar effects, though obviously on a much smaller scale. Now it might well be that porn also has a beneficial social effect of encouraging openness about sex and the shedding of hang-ups - it probably does. I think Norman and I are both saying that we don't like porn as it currently exists.

Stopping doing it: yes obviously. But the implication seems to be that if you notice something is harming you it's a matter for you and you alone. Of course any action taken is a personal matter, but letting it influence yr public opinion (i.e. saying lads I think porn was bad for me so maybe you should watch out a bit) is fine.

http://www.robbscelebs.co.uk/oops35/belinda_carlisle1705.jpg

Hope this works.
Belinda Carlise nude.

http://www.robbscelebs.co.uk/oops35/belinda_carlisle1705.jpg

Hope this works.
Belinda Carlise nude.

http://home.earthlink.net/~quinnah/sggallery2.html

This is my contribution to the hoary old naked lady debate.

Don't you think you're being a bit naive? Your arguement simply comes down to:

"She can't possibly enjoy it and that's that"

In this way you're a bit like George Bush. Nothing she says will convince you. For the record I reckon she does - she married a porn star not to long ago.

I'm not saying that feminists are reactionary. Just that you are Pashmina and it saddens me that you seem so easy to label me as a 'flack for the sex industry' when I've already stated I get no sexual thrill from hardcore porn. I'm simply stating that:

1) I believe some women and men DO enjoy being in the industry
2) Each to their own

I'm a liberal person after all. If you don't like porn then excercise your democratic right not to watch it. Silly girl.

Get a grip Pashmina. Your stereotype than anyone who ever glimpses porn is a sick, messed up woman hater is pathetic. The only troll here is you.

Daddy knows best redux, eh? Y'all are missing about fifteen years of feminist discourse on porn. Do some reading and get back to me.

I wasn't labelling everyone who disagrees with me 'conservative'. I just believe in freedom of choice. If you don't like porn then don't buy it. No one has a gun to your head.

I fear that 'the pornographic imagination' is unhealthy. Resistance to it is probably a good thing.

http://www.ladysixstring.com/artists/folk/AniDiFranco/images/ani-difranco-05.jpg

Isobel from Bardo Pond *swoon*

ROBY from Milemarker

nuff said.

http://girlyloop.tapenade.org/shannonwright/11-9/shky4-2b.JPG

http://girlyloop.tapenade.org/shannonwright/webpress/flower.jpg

She's hypnotic in person. Propriety prohibits me...

Second Mary Timony. Rowrr.

Neko Case is foxy, but I would have married her just for her voice. It makes me swoon.

Can't think of anyone else right now. I had a crush on Justine F. in high school, though.

And this from a girl who likes girls. I may be objectifying, but it's not political to me. Women who rock are just sexy.

V

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/angelofirony/Theaud8.jpg

I predict big things for her!

Anyway, howabout some j-indie chix...

http://www.chocolat.ne.jp/photos/images/12.jpg

http://www.artcontext.org/artskool/jem/tm/tm18.jpg

http://members.tripod.com/mellosonic/images/more1/karie1.JPG

Here's some more Belinda

http://www.robbscelebs.co.uk/oops35/oops_belinda_carlisle1701.jpg

Try again shall I?

http://www.www.robbscelebs.co.uk/oops35/belinda_carlisle1702.jpg

Her hair was nice. And she has rollerskates.

That would be splendid [band name removed by request for personal reasons], FYI.

nope. azita's cute, but maybe she just looks good in an airport.

http://www.rewireviews.com/thumbnails/VB5t.jpg

like I said. c'mon!

OK, just kidding this time

Dunno why I can't post any pics...

http://www.robbscelebs.co.uk/oops35/belinda_carlisle1701.jpg

Bet she was forced into it for money anyway...

http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/cinerama/west/183/kylie_minogue004.jpg

Very indie, Dubstar.

Have atcha, Calum!

The luverly Debbie Harry

http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/cinerama/premier/359/louise_werner2.jpg

Hoorah for IDM girls.