Site New Answers Search Boards ILE ILM Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login

Who was genius on debut, then blew it completely on second album?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Black Sheep, to start with.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Monday, 7 April 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

elastica
the stone roses

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 7 April 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Menswe@r.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 April 2003 02:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the beatles.

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Stone Roses

― adam west (adamwest), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I hear two for the Stone Roses, do I hear three?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, Stone Roses was the first thing i thought of.

DRI and Wu Tang come to mind as well. Suicidal Tendencies, Circle Jerks...SO many punk and hip hop groups. Too many to name. But they're the biggest culprits I think.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

souls of mischief, big time.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Sex Pistols, Snoop Dogg, Television (!)

― jm (jtm), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The Pretenders.

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

The Stone Roses don't belong on this list. People thought that after 5 1/2 years they'd come back with exactly the same type of tunes they were playing in '89. Listen to Second Coming closely. They're much better musicians than on the debut. There are some excellent songs on that album.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Strokes

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Monday, 7 April 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually am not down with the Second Coming hate myself. Album might be a little too long but it's got some great songs on it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Pharcyde

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

janet jackson

― Vic, Monday, 7 April 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

You think Control was a misstep?

― paul cox (paul cox), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't hate Second Coming by any means, and rather like a couple of the tracks. But when you compare that to the debut album, they really did blow it.

― adam west (adamwest), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I might be in the minority, but I always thought Dig Your Own Hole was a bit of a letdown.

― paul cox (paul cox), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I was going to say the clash but i realised i don't actually like the first album either.

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 7 April 2003 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

FFRRPP! give em enough rope is grate!
Stay Free
Safe European home
Its my favorite Clash album

― SplendidMullet (iamamonkey), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)

cbs gave em enough, fer sure.

― gaz (gaz), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You think Control was a misstep?

-- paul cox (pau...), April 7th, 2003.

Oh woops I forgot those two totally crap albums she did pre-Control (which prove its all jam & lewis, sorry ms jackson)..i think Control is genious but aside from the singles really dislike RN.

― Vic, Monday, 7 April 2003 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry ms jackson

"..i am for reeeeaalll"

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Lauryn Hill?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh woops I forgot those two totally crap albums she did pre-Control (which prove its all jam & lewis, sorry ms jackson)..i think Control is genious but aside from the singles really dislike RN.

-- Vic (Iodine99...), April 6th, 2003.

Oh, I thought there was only one prior to Control. I had to do some AMG factchecking, because I don't think I've ever seen an actual copy of Dream Street. Did anyone buy it?

― paul cox (paul cox), Monday, 7 April 2003 05:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Bell Biv Devoe

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 06:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not sure u can accuse the wu tang for this. its not just that i think wu forever is underated, but more the fact that all of solo albums were essentially wu albums, and a lot of them were genius

― Robin Goad (rgoad), Monday, 7 April 2003 06:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Nirvana

― neil, Monday, 7 April 2003 08:14 (twenty-two years ago)

the stone roses again...

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 7 April 2003 08:24 (twenty-two years ago)

jeff buckley

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 7 April 2003 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

massive attack

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 7 April 2003 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

oi! has anyone said stone roses yet? HAR HAR HAR

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

underworld

― Dave M. (rotten03), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Presidents of the United States of America
Arsonists

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:18 (twenty-two years ago)

the stone roses are to this thread what the royal tenenbaums is to ILX as a whole

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Daft Punk (heh)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Stone Roses (of course, though I do like "Love Spreads" a lot)
Blood Sweat and Tears
Arrested Development
De La Soul
Air (only if 10,000 Hz. Legend is considered their second album proper)
The Velvet Underground

― Evan (Evan), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

''The Velvet Underground''?!!?!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

space. tin planet was awful.

― big d (big d), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't believe the lack of hype; Second Coming is grate.

― Roger Fascist (Roger Fascist), Monday, 7 April 2003 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ABC, obviously.

And Aztec Camera to some extent.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 10:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Why has no one mentioned Kelis yet?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 7 April 2003 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Why has no one mentioned Kelis yet?

Because she has never been "genius"?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone remember ET's review of Second Coming?

― Treble (treble), Monday, 7 April 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone remember ET's review of Second Coming?

No, did it make him want to phone home? :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Liz Phair
Elastica

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 7 April 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The Woodentops
Dubstar
Air (you have to count Moon Safari as their first though!!!!)
Tears for Fears (really!!)
Jega

― Kim Tortoise, Monday, 7 April 2003 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

The Dream Syndicate.

― mike a (mike a), Monday, 7 April 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is 12 hours old and still no mention of Nas?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Congos
Aswad
Mighty Diamonds

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Deee-lite

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone remember ET's review of Second Coming?
No, did it make him want to phone home? :-)
-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), April 7th, 2003.

Geir busts a move in the "funny" department!

But he's wrong about ABC's Beauty Stab, which is massively underrated. It was really quite brave of them to jettison Mr. Horn for #2, and then to go all popRAWK on us, but it still works just fine and isn't a "blow-it" moment in the least. Maybe "unfashionable," sure -- and maybe Martin's bad poetry was left somewhat exposed on some songs, but I've been loving this record for two decades.

― Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll say Soul Coughing, although I liked all their albums. Neither of the follow-ups delivered on quite the same scale as Ruby Vroom though, and I think they know this.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Stone Roses own this thread.
Belly, Sugar (if you skip Beaster) and Pearl Jam (genius isn't the word I'd use).

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

IMHO, Ten is hardly Pearl Jam's best album; although not a day goes by that I don't find it entertaining that most of the universe seems to accept that as some sort of falsifiable (sp?) truth.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

ditto to that, I'll take Vitalogy or No Code over Ten or Vs. any day.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Luscious Jackson, though "Natural Ingredients" wasn't exactly a dud. It just wasn't half as great as "In Search of Manny."

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:12 (twenty-two years ago)

In what sense were Stone Roses *ever* geniuses? Am i missing a joke?

(First answer I can think of, by the way, is Neneh Cherry.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Because Kelis' "Wanderland" is fan-fucking-tastic? & her REAL "official" second album isn't even released yet.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Montrose

― Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

But he's wrong about ABC's Beauty Stab, which is massively underrated.

No it isn't. "S.O.S." was a great single, but the rest was absolutely terrible. ABC never quite worked without Trevor Horn (even though "Alphabet City" was kind of a return to form, with at least a few good tracks on it).

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Skrewdriver

― Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Not that I've ever heard their second album, whatever it is, but I think it's safe to say they "blew it".

― Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

More nominations:

The Adverts
Bang
Moby Grape
Frankie Goes to Hollywood

Though actually, I forget what any of their followups sounded like!

And how about: Black Flag? Cafe Tacuba? Flipper? Liz Phair? Salt N Pepa? (Though maybe none of their followups was all THAT bad, really.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oops, somebody already said Liz Phair, sorry.
Montrose, Dream Syndicate, and Air are all excellent choices.
And did anybody nominate Violent Femmes yet?

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)


(First answer I can think of, by the way, is Neneh Cherry.)

B-b-but Homebrew is so much more appealing, relaxing, and soothing than her debut, which hasn't dated as well in comparison at all!!! It even made #12 of that lil' poll that year that you guys do (NOT that that has any bearing on an album's genius or lack therof =)

― Vic, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Are third-album-recoveries disqualified? If not:
Run-DMC
Patti Smith (or so I hear; I don't mind the one track I know)

― s woods, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally I'd throw in a word for Ministry in this thread, although I know most people would completely disagree with me. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

"De La Soul"

No fuckin' way. De La Soul is Dead is better than their debut, imo. And I wouldn't say that Nas "completely blew it" with It Was Written. He did slip on Nastradamus.

― s>c>, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

DJ Shadow

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I've only heard their first and second albums but I'll say Pearl Jam - Vs. is a monstrosity.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Nobody has mentioned Terence Trent D'Arby here yet....

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>Are third-album-recoveries disqualified? If not:
Run-DMC
Patti Smith (or so I hear; I don't mind the one track I know)<<

Actually, Scott, I think *King of Rock* and *Radio Ethiopia* are both kind of underrated. Patti, though, may well be one of those VERY rare artists (the Clash come to mind) whose EVERY subsequent LP is worse than the one that preceded it -- In other words, their best album ever is their debut; their second best is their second album; their third best is their third album, and so on. Quite an accomplishment!

P.S.: Neneh Cherry's genius, whatever it might have been, really had nothing to do with being "relaxing" or "soothing." It had more to do with being one of the girls on the block with the nasty curls wearing padded bras sucking beers through straws, dropping down their drawers.

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Neneh Cherry's genius had to do with the fact that, even though she was a hip-hop act with lots of street cred and stuff, she was still able to come up with a beautiful melody in "Man Child". I guess the later one-off masterpiece "Seven Seconds" may have been based on the same talent for actually coming up with great songs if she wants to.

Just after her debut, though, she managed to come up with a pointless and totally unmelodic "cover version" of "I Got You Under My Skin", with nothing remaining from the original other than its title.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

For fuck's sake! Nirvana?! Daft Punk!?? Air!!!?? Beatles!!!!!? Puh-lease!

I can't really think of any bands in this category. Even the SEcond COming I quite like (though it isn't quite as good as the debut, admittedly).

Oh hang on, here's one:
Aim: Coldwater Music vs. Hinterland
no contest!

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Tricky

― stevo (stevo), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

re: Patti Smith/Run-DMC....Yeah, I was actually just throwing Patti Smith out there as a 'conventional wisdom' kind of thing, and I always loved "Ask the Angels"; and the fact that Jack Douglas produces it kind of intrigues me also...so I should probably listen before I speak (I don't even own that album). But King of Rock?? I really love "Can You Rock it Like This," but can barely remember much else, and I always kind of hated the title track for some reason (except for their ingenious Beatles comparison).

― s wooods, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

In what sense were Stone Roses *ever* geniuses?

You have GOT to be fucking kidding me!!

― Evan (Evan), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Just after her debut, though, she managed to come up with a pointless and totally unmelodic "cover version" of "I Got You Under My Skin", with nothing remaining from the original other than its title.

Um, the lyrics?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

the lyrics (and MELODY) of the chorus more specifically

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Only one line of the lyrics, more specifically. The rest of the lyrics were all changed.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And, no, the melody wasn't kept either. The rhythm of the title line had been kept, but not the rest.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

King of Rock is a fantastic album. In many ways it's just as good as the debut. In some ways better ("Roots, Rap, Reggae", the title cut). Maybe since you can "barely remember" it, you might give it another spin.

I think Kris gave the best answers, Montrose and Skrewdriver.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

no Geir actually the entire chorus, unless Frank Sinatra went back in time and switched the original chorus with Neneh's. Listen to it again.


3rd Bass
Clinic
Kid n Play
Anita Baker (for scott woods)
Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band
Camper Van Beethoven


― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

>>In what sense were Stone Roses *ever* geniuses?
You have GOT to be fucking kidding me!!<<<

No, as a matter of fact, I'm not. My late '80s definition of a tone-deaf moron: Somebody who thought Stone Roses were "mixing rock music with dance music," but Guns N Roses weren't. (Speaking of which, nobody's nominated GUNS N ROSES yet! Well, maybe somebody should. Though I'm a *GnR Lies* fan myself, so probably it shouldn't be me.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Soul II Soul will be mentioned, but I like the second one more than the first (or at least I did in 1990)


does GnR Lies count as the second album since it's half new ep and half ep reissue?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

James I concur 1000% about Dr. Buzzard (no misprint), but Anita Baker, huh?!?!

― s woods, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

weren't you the one grilling Greil Marcus and Mr. Eddy about Anita Baker round bout mid-eighties?

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

>>does GnR Lies count as the second album since it's half new ep and half ep reissue?<<

Yeah, that was my question, too. If *Use Your Illusion* counts as the second album instead, I WILL nominate Guns N Roses. (Though "blew it completely" would still be an exagerration, I suppose.) I also wasn't sure which record counts as Black Flag's first album -- *Damaged* or the *Jealous Again* EP. Both of which beat everything that came later.

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The Count Five

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The Slits

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Cypress Hill
Portishead

JB is wrong wrong wrong about Clinic (though Walking With Thee is nowhere near as good as Internal Wrangler)

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

PORTISHEAD??????????

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

James, no, but I had a feeling that's what you meant...no, that was Phil Dellio. (Phew--for a brief second I thought you might've flashed across some embarrassing Anita Baker review I wrote.)

Yeah, Portishead I don't get.

― s woods, Monday, 7 April 2003 18:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha Blount!

Yeah, Carburetor Dung totally sucked!

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

(but they recovered for Snowflakes Falling on the International Dateline, so they get pass)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Blount is very OTM about Clinic (and I would agree even moreso if we were counting the EP collection as their first record).

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Blount is ridiculously wrong about Clinic. The 2nd Portishead album was a washed-out retreat of the genius first one

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the slits? are you serious?
'return of the giant slits' is total fucking genius. it is my dream to someday reissue this record.

― j fail (cenotaph), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

er, retread

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-two years ago)

judging an album based on artist's previous album=DUD OF ALL DUDS

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you figure, oops?

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, I'm glad you backed off on Cafe Tacuba, Re is excellent

thanks all you ABC lovers for NOT having my back on Beauty Stab and letting Geir wipe up the floor with me, see if I ever do anything for you bastards in return

Los Amigos Invisibles would get a nod from me, except that Arepa 3000 is too fun to hate -- it is kinda boring though and proves their whole shtick was just, y'know, shtick

Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
Digital Underground (damn, Sons of the P was vile)

― Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the damned, goddamn it.

matos is otm about cypress hill.

I'm tempted to say the wu tang clan (as a collective - not counting solo LP's) but then "36 chambers" is kinda like "appetite for destruction" or "never mind the bollocks" in that the album was such an event that the band was kinda fucked for life no matter what.
those records were so timely that their creators could never move forward without being traitors to that moment.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like The W, though, but yeah Forever is...not garbage, just far more blah than it ought to be. I suppose this is Yancey and Blount's argument about Clinic, though I disagree w/it in that case.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

oh Big Daddy Kane too

― Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The W would have made an amazing EP. As a record it's still good, but there are lots of songs that could've been left off.

No, Walking With Thee isn't garbage, just really goddamn boring. Someone forgot to put in all the beats!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf?! slower beats /= nonexistent beats

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't say "It's a big daddy thing" was completely blowing it!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

no, 2nd Big Daddy Kane record good (not great), 3rd BDK record suxor. much more gradual decline than being asked for here.

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Dr. Dre solo


― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

The D.O.C.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you figure, oops?
-- M Matos

Cuz IMO you should only judge an album on how it sounds, how good it is in its own right. If that 2nd album had been released under a pseudonym, what would you have thought of it? Maybe you'd say that it was a Portishead wanna-be but actually a pretty decent one. If 'Dummy' never saw the light of day, and the self-titled album was released as their first, would you feel the same way about it?
It's like (forgive me) when the Bulls only made it to the first round of the playoffs after winning 3 titles. Objectively, making it to the playoffs is something to be proud of, but when judged against their previous triumphs, it comes off as total failure.
This type of sliding scale is used all too often by crits., and doesn't hold any water when you sit down with an album and actually attempt to listen to it w/o preconceptions.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Listen Without Prejudice, then, oops?

that's not a slam on George Michael, that album was pretty great

― Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the Bulls made it to the second round, and it was a failure cuz they lost to the Knicks. Removing a work from it's context or any context allows for too much standing on the shoulders of giants.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

[this is essentially an abridged version of my Neumu review of the record] Before WWT only 2 of Clinic's songs had neared 4 minutes, yet 6 of WWT's 11 songs do. The band's trying to stretch their ideas, but part of what made the EPs and the album so great is that their melodies and approach were so simple -- there wasn't much of an attempt to dress them up to make them more than they were. WWT seems like an attempt to do that, and the result is the discovery that a Clinic song just can't last past three-and-a-half minutes, cuz if it does what could be arresting becomes tedious. As for the beats, there's only a couple songs where they go for the multi-layered, Afrobeatish rhythms. Most of the beats are straightforward, so there ain't much to distract us from the dull, already-done-before melodies. There are several good songs on there, but by and large the album's pretty bad.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The D.O.C.

:-(

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Summary: bad for a Portishead album !=bad album

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

oops, that post is so many kinds of condescending-asshole I don't even know where to begin. rest assured, though, that even though I dislike the 2nd Portishead and Cypress Hill albums based solely on the fact that I think they're bad, I can in fact dislike them for ANY GODDAMNED REASON I WISH TO and there isn't a fucking thing you can do about it!

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

listen to it w/o preconceptions

can you do this, oops? cuz unless it's a blind listening test, isn't that nearly impossible?

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the second Portishead album; more than the first even!

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, Michaelangelo, in that case, I hate the second Clinic album, too. For any goodamned reason I want to:) (But mainly: It's Too. Fucking. Slow.) (Or too fucking quiet, maybe. Or too fucking both.)


(And precconceptions, clearly, are part of what makes life worth living.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

snoop and ultamagnetic come to mind...biggie and jay z to a lesser extent.

i think that wu tang forever had its moments, although not as consistent as enter the 36 chambers. solo wu material on the other hand...specifically method man and raekwon.

― s>c>, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

can you do this, oops?

No, but I try...and I don't write about music for a living.

(preconceptions may make life worth living, but keep yours outta my way when I'm trying to assess something)(clearly I'm in the wrong room to dis music criticism)

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't understand what parallel universe MMatos is in. I adore that second Portishead album on pretty much every level.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>(preconceptions may make life worth living, but keep yours outta my way when I'm trying to assess something<<


Oh, horseshit. If you know what my preconceptions are, it should HELP you access it. If I HIDE my preconceptions, you've got less to go on.

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

that was meant to be horseshit, chuck. But why should I need things 'to go on'?

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey--kids, kids!

Would people still like the Stone Roses if they hadn't done "Fools Gold"? If so, why?

Deee-Lite and Television are good ones. (Nobody ever wants to admit that Adventure isn't that good.) Someone said Dre, right? If we're talking the height fallen from one to two, I'm not sure anything could beat Dre. I love both Snoop's second album ("Freestyle Conversation"!) and the Pretenders' second. Souls of Mischief--did their second album even really register as a real album? Nas--such a height did he fall. Splat.

Is anyone else baffled by the second Elastica record? It sounds good? And then it doesn't?

Wait--if Lauryn Hill's homeless crack addict MTV album counts, that's the furthest distance from one to two. That's, like, a mazillion miles, Vanessa. I like Derelicts of Dialect. Great beats.

I would say Pavement, beeeg time. But all those EPs make the counting hard.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:37 (twenty-two years ago)

>>why should I need things 'to go on'? <<

Well, you shouldn't "need" 'em, of course. But you might *want* 'em --because they might make you notice something you might not have otherwise noticed, maybe? I dunno; lots of reasons. (And whether your comment was meant to be horseshit or not, there are lots of people -- all the idiots who thought Amy Phillips should never have mentioned her age or past fandom in her *Voice* Sonic Youth review last year, for instance -- who honestly seem to BELIEVE opinions are somehow more trustworthy if the person handing them out feigns objectivity.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Mogwai yet (though it certainly won't be me).

― Clarke B., Monday, 7 April 2003 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree w/you Chuck, and I do appreciate someone else's take on music, whether their a fan or an 'objective' reviewer. But I think criticism loses some of its value if the only negative thing you can say about something is 'its like their past work, only now its not new'. Maybe because it points out the inherent subjectivity of all music/art. If Portishead's first album was crap, it seems that that would make their second one better somehow. This should not be true!
(I've been reading Homer Simpson quotes, and my horseshit statement was said by him in my head...couldn't you hear?)

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I can hear it now, I guess.

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait, what's wrong with the second Flipper album, Chuck (or anyone else)? Just because no one has seen fit to reissue it doesn't mean that Gone Fishin' isn't a great record!?!?! (Speaking of which: why did no one reissue this record?)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

of the stuff listed here, I'm DEFINITELY gonna agree with Guns'n'Roses (I really don't like much of the Use Your Illusion stuff at all and Lies is an EP). and on a relative scale, I'm definitely cool with the Clash being listed. Big drop there.

Stone Roses and Clinic I'm not so sure cuz the Stone Roses were totally GENIUS and I'm not sure Clinic blew it COMPLETELY the second time.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

woops. the Stone Roses weren't totally genius was my point. I love certain singles ("I Wanna Be Adored" in particularly) but a lot of it was wallpaper from the get go.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, Alex is kinda right about *Gone Fishin', I guess. I was just seeing if anybody was paying attention. And I was also maybe talking more about general consensus there than my own opinion. (I don't own my copy anymore, but I actually liked it a lot when it came out -- might even have listed it in my top 10. But everybody ELSE hated it, I think. And it was still no match for the debut if I remember right.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I think I can see both sides of this debate (between Oops and Chuck).

Clearly, every critic brings his or her own preconceptions to the table, as a matter of inevitability. Now, you can get into the old argument about whether critics have an obligation to ignore these preconceptions, in order to be more "objective," or whether it's better to embrace these preconceptions, in order to be more "honest." Apologies if I've drawn this dichotomy too crudely -- but I imagine Chuck sides with the latter camp, and for the most part, so do I.

And yet I also think Oops is right to question the usefulness of extra-textual concerns (such as the artist's prior work) in criticism, and especially when you're otherwise approaching music subjectively. I can't tell you how many debates I've had with people about how derivative Interpol (or The Strokes) are. For many people who love Joy Division, Interpol "sound just like them" --> "but also pale in comparison" --> "and so are therefore unexciting" --> "and ultimately worthless." I think part of this thought process is interesting and worth exploring, as long as it's couched as "As a Joy Division fan..." But do you see how easy it is to slip into the last part, the outright dismissal? Which is not useful whatsoever to folks like me, who's heard very little Joy Division, and therefore gives me no insight into the actual music on Turn On the Bright Lights (apart from making me want to buy Closer).

Part of the problem, too, is that journalistic criticism has several different aims: one is to record the writer's pure, subjective reaction to a discrete piece of music, and another is to provide some context. And since these aren't always so easily separated in the mind, they often get muddled on the page.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Clearly someone didn't like it cuz to my knowledge it's NEVER been released on CD!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Part of the problem with genius debuts (like Flipper's), of course, is that by the time the second album is out, it seems more like talent than genius. Assuming the second album's any good, that is.

I bet if X-Ray Spex, Essential Logic, or Derek and the Dominoes ever made a second album (none of 'em did, did they?), they'd all fit here somewhere. (Hey, at least I didn't say the Honeydrippers!)

Here's a few more real nominations, though: Expose' and the Cover Girls and Sweet Sensation. And probably some other Latin freestyle gals I forgot. (And to a lesser extent, maybe, Debbie Gibson and Tiffany and Vanilla Ice. Though Vanilla admittedly was only a genius for a couple SONGS, even on his debut.) (And hey, what about Snow???)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Guns 'n Roses is certainly disqualified, Appetite For Destruction, Lies and Use Your Illusion were overall very mediocre records with a few nice songs. At least half of each is unlistenable filler even complete idiots like Warrant would've rejected.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Did Snow even make a fucking album?

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I know It Was Written isn't in the same league as Illmatic, but it isn't that bad...I'd rather listen to that than the Dogfather (that was his second album, right?). It Was Written was a disappointment and I'm not saying that Nas didn't go "splat," I just think that Nas' was a gradual descent into mediocrity. To be honest, I was really disapointed when it first dropped, but subsequent listens revealed that it wasn't as bad as i had thought, it's just no Illmaitc.

I'm with you on Lauryn Hill though.

― s>c>, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Appetite For Destruction can and never should be descibed as mediocre man. Album is classic.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Is anyone going to nominate MC Hammer, by the way?

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

If Kill Uncle is "the second album," then Morrisey counts.

SUEDE fuckin does. Dog Man Star blows. Bernard Butler is bad rubbish I say good riddance too. Begone!

I don't feel Solid Gold nearly as much as Entertainment, so I'll include Gang Of Four.

The filler on Appetite for Destruction isn't bad enough to diminish the GLORY of the best songs, it still qualifies!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I imagine Chuck sides with the latter camp, and for the most part, so do I.

I guess I'm right in the middle. I think both approaches are useful, and both have their problems. As a consumer of music, I try to get as many opinions as possible before deciding if something is worth my money/time. While I don't want to rely solely on reviews written by a fanclub president, I also don't want to rely solely on reviews written by 'experts' who invariably miss some of the subjective joys of certain artists.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

>Did Snow even make a fucking album?<<

12 inches of one, buddy! (It was real good, too.)

(And he's put out three since then -- plus anthologies -- apparently.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Appetite is great all the way through! Yay cocaine and threesomes!

― Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It was real good? What was on it? Anthologies??? The Best of Snow - what was that 14 mixes?

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Would people still like the Stone Roses if they hadn't done "Fools Gold"? If so, why?

I would have loved Stone Roses more if they hadn't done "Fools Gold". I am not particularly into "Fools Gold" at all. However, "Made Of Stone", "Bye Bye Badman", "I Am The Resurrection" and "I Wanna Be Adored" were all really classy guitar pop songs, a lot stronger melodically than the previous indie darlings, The Smiths, had ever been.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>The filler on Appetite for Destruction<<

Which songs are supposedly filler???? I'm really curious...

And if you say "Think About You," I KNOW you're nuts. (I'm guessing my least favorite song might be "You're Crazy." Which is still great.)

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey now, Crazy rocks. How about Rocket Queen - those taped orgasmics man... what is that about. Classy stuff.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

My Michelle
Out Ta Get Me
You're Crazy
It's So Easy
Anything Goes

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It's So Easy??? Are you fucking crazy?

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe "Think About You", I can't quite recall it.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I am nuts. Boogada boogada.

I was being nice to Siegbran by referring to stuff in between the classics as "filler," but I'm not saying their bad or anything. I just mean the more generic tracks. Song titles escape me, but for "Nighttrain," "Out Ta Get Me" and "My Michelle" are coming to mind. Again, not bad, just not godly.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, bear in mind that I absolutely loathe big hair hardrock, people...but seriously, even Priests worst moment Turbo was better than anything GnR ever did.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

No no no dude. My Michelle as well... Ouch - I love that stuff. Nightrain as well, "I got a Molotov cocktail with a matchstick in, I smoke my... cigarette with style."

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, makes me laugh though.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

hey! again, I'm not saying its bad! It just tends to all blur together for me after awhile.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I know what you mean. But with an album like 'Destruction, I have to go pay homage to it every now and then, like just get it on because it's Appetite and I need to remember just how good it is. From those opening bars on Welcome... it makes me smile just thinking about it. i guess it's tied to a certain place in time but i still think for all attitude dumb rock it's hard to beat. Anyway, I've dragged the thread wildly off topic.

The Illusions though... maybe they are a proper candidate for fucking up. Barely enough decent material for one album, so indulgent and self-possessed.

― Alex K (Alex K), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I second whoever it was that said Camper van Beethoven.

To a lesser extent, the English Beat.

― Burr (Burr), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Solid Gold is one of the best second albums ever made. Totally distinct from first, create its own genre even, pace Benjamin, and fucking untouchable. I rock it as much as Entertainment, my favoritest record ever (and yesm I'll say that in the sober morning, Virginia). Appetite For Chuck Klostermanis perfect. Other GNR albums pale by comparison, but that's different than just losing the plot like Skrewdriver. The the day that drug addict Ian Brown writes a song as good as "This Charming Man," I'll eat my Squeeze tote bag.

Chuck and oops should hug or take it off-thread. Bo-ring!

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"This Charming Man" is basically just a guitar riff. A guitar riff doesn't a good song make.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah*, but a guitar riff with a beat from "You Can't Hurry Love" by the Supremes underneath might! (See also: Hall and Oates, "Maneater." Tho it might not have much of a riff; I forget. I bet Rob Sheffield could prove it has the same lyrics as "This Charming Man," though.)

*actually, this "yeah" is rhetorical. A guitar riff CAN a good song make, as far as I'm concerned. (No, I will not bore you w/ examples.)

And I want to make an argument that Gang of Four's EPs were actually better than their albums, but that would just be foolish, probably.

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

disagree with mention of Liz Phair - Whip-Smart was admittedly a bit of a disappointment after Exile... but is still quite a strong album.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

A good song is supposed to work no matter what arrangement is being used. If you sit down by the piano, and play the chords while you sing the melody, and it is still sounds great. THEN it is a great song.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

So sayeth Geir on the seventh day of April in the 2003th year of our lord Neil Finn!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:29 (twenty-two years ago)

>>>If you sit down by the piano, and play the chords while you sing the melody, and it is still sounds great. THEN it is a great song.<<<

But I can't sing!!!!

― chuck, Monday, 7 April 2003 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Clinic's/Elastica's/Portishead's second albums are GREAT FUCKING FANTASTIC WONDERFUL BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS AND YOU ARE ALL WRONG.

Alex Gopher - now he fell off.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(Sorry, got slightly carried away there, but I am struggling against my own personal FUK TEH CANON tendencies.)

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Why would I play a song written for guitar on piano? Would I have to play "Good Times' on the glockenspiel? And fuck the guitar--Morrissey's words and melody stand miles above that baggy pot-smoking crap. But wait--I love that song "What The World Is Waiting For" completely. It's better than "Reel Around The Fountain" and "Shakespeare's Sister." And Geir Hongro is a proper proper name, worthy of its own opera. Would your parents totally take you to see Gier Hongro at the Met with Placido? They would! I'm not snapping--it's platinum! I mean that.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I still think Geir needs his own column in the Voice. By the end of the year the letters page would become its own supplement.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dear Deluded Norwegian..."

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(And to a lesser extent, maybe, Debbie Gibson and Tiffany and Vanilla Ice. Though Vanilla admittedly was only a genius for a couple SONGS, even on his debut.)

WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?!?!?!?

― Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I totally agree Evan. If (like me) you think Tiffany's voice is the best thing about her then you can't touch Hold An Old Friend's Hand. Doubly so for "We're Both Thinking Of Her Tonight" where she really comes into her own with the wistful, embittered ragged strength in her tone that she's still trading on today. Not to mention "Radio Romance" and "Walk Away While You Can" and "It's The Lover (Not The Love)".

Gibson I guess I could sorta see if not for the title track.

Also Clarke if yr. talking about mogwai you better be counting Ten Rapid as not a proper album otherwise yr. utterly insane. (nb: my tape of Young Team broke today and I am immeasurably sad -- I fell asleep to that tape for like six months straight my freshman year of college.)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sure no one here knows about the Seventh Wave, a fey English prog-lite duo from the 70s whose first LP I loved, so much so that when I saw their second LP in a used bin I bought it "sound unheard" despite the horrible cover (them in the most overdone glam makeup imaginable). The disk was equally horrible and I resold it in the next couple days.

And I think Liz Phair's, Violent Femmes', and the Dream Syndicate's 2nd offerings are great.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 05:39 (twenty-two years ago)

From what I hear, the Gordons

― donut bitch (donut), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 06:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Did the Gordons make a second album? "Coalminers Song" is the shit.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Heard of Seventh Wave (the track that was in Rhino's prog box was excellent), but never heard anything from the second album, so I may not possibly agree nor disagree with you.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Is anyone going to nominate MC Hammer, by the way?

No, because _Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em_ was light-years better than _Let's Get It Started_. It wasn't until the third album (_2 Legit 2 Quit_) that he fell off.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ryan Adams (solo, not counting the Whiskeytown stuff). Heartbreaker's a beauty and a half. Gold is turd.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

New York Dolls

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

The Egyptian Lover

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

MC5

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

The Bob Seger System

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with William. This may be the only time I ever get to say this, a great day for peace the world over, an historic occasion. champagne flowing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Please Hammer was not light years better than Let's Get it Started

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ian Wright.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Sasha: yes, the Gordons made a second album, which has been out of print practically since it came out--apparently they all hate it. (I've never heard it.) I like the first one too, but I like the "Future Shock" EP way better anyway...

― Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Boo! Hiss! "Gold" is a great record! Take your damned low-key-but-emotionally-impacting nonsense and give me some cheesy FM-country-rock please!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I hope James is joking about the second Dolls album.

― s woods, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

slightly, they didn't 'blow it completely' (neither did Television fuckkers!), but it does seem to be a "Use Your Illusion" type dropoff. Whenever people talk about why they dont' like the New York Dolls I always assume they're talking about Too Much Too Soon. Plus I love the original of "Stranded in the Jungle" and the Dolls remake sounds like Meatloaf.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Meatloaf

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Boston

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Meatloaf, yes, Boston, hmm, possibly (disqualified by great title track, at least), MC5, irrelevant to the question (no good albums ever), Dolls--you're nuts. Every cut on the second album is a gem.

― s woods, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

But good point about "stranded" sounding just like "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"--it's true. (Maybe I can play it at my next wedding.)

― s woods, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The Go-Gos

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Geez louise, there are too many choices here that I disagree with to list all of them. When I think "blew it completely", I think of a complete fall from grace and not just slightly disappointing. And more than a few of the second albums here I actually consider much better than the debut (like Portishead, for instance).

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

that's true. i'd have to negate my massive attack nomination, then, because they seriously got back on track with mezzanine.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

The Dave Matthews Band
The Dead Kennedys
U2
Pink Floyd
The Gravediggaz
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
"Weird Al" Yankovic
The Jerky Boys
Van Halen

― Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)


(And to a lesser extent, maybe, Debbie Gibson and Tiffany and Vanilla Ice. Though Vanilla admittedly was only a genius for a couple SONGS, even on his debut.)

WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?!?!?!?

-- Evan (savage156...), April 7th, 2003.


Welcome to ILx ol' RS.com chum!! I told you this was a strange place!!

[Um, have we put the definition of "rockism" in the FAQ yet? Moderator-people? Tom? Mr. Greenspun??? ]

― Vic (Vic), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

many people would say the feelies. though personally 'the good earth' is my favorite feelies release.

― j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh.

All it says is:

What is rockism?
[MARK S CAN YOU FILL THIS ONE IN!]

...whatever THAT means.

― Evan (Evan), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

bill tarmey.

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

what - no mention of Ride? apart from 'Leave them all behind', the rest was so bland and derivative. And even the further disasters that came later can't obscure that..
A lot of the shoegazers really crashed on the 2nd album when they tried to get out of that scene (the counter-example being Slowdive, who really bloomed on 'Souvlaki').

― Fabrice (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

12 inches of one, buddy! (It was real good, too.)

Snow is directly resonsible for my long standing hatred of dancehall reggae. Though you did give me an idea to clear out the alley behind my house by playing that record.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Which of these bands that have been mentioned do you guys think became "genius" again an album or two after "blowing it"? I say Meat Loaf.

― T. Brad Baker, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Meatloaf kept blowing it, but for me Elevator To Hell recovered from Erieconsilliation which aside from Every Channel I find boring.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

J Blount is right. Television's Adventure isn't a case of blowing it, just being disappointing. It's gotta be total, off-the-cliff, Hail Mary plummet to qualify. There's the accompanying, complicating variable of artists who bounced back strong, or artists who just kinda wandered from pole to pole. Some of these might be one of those.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

And on those terms let me stand in defense of Back in the USA. It was their pop album, they may have done it for the (vain attempt at making) $, but it's still miles above the competition.

― Methuselah (Methuselah), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Sterling, of course I'm not counting Ten Rapid as a proper album -- Young Team is unassailable. CODY is nearly as great in my eyes, but it seems that few others think so.

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 9 April 2003 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

You are not alone, Mr. Clarke.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, Debbie Gibson, Tiffany, Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer were clearly never even remotely close to "genius", and, as such, they have nothing to "blow" on secon album anyway...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Debbie Gibson kind of was a pop genius, though.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

If you count "Haunted Science" as Omni Trio's first proper album ("The Deepest Cut" was more of a singles collection), then "Skeleton Keys" was a BIG disappointment. Not that it sucked that bad, but Haunted Science was such a seminal record, and Skeleton Keys was merely the same album again, only with worse tracks.

Also, I'm not that bif of a Goldie fan, but "Timeless" is usually considered a classic, and it does have some decent tracks. However, whether I liked Timeless or not, compared to it "Saturnz Return" was absolutely horrendous! Even KRS-One couldn't save that one.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

The funny thing is that I would have said Omni Trio BUT I would have counted _The Deepesr Cut_. I really, really disliked _Haunted Science_; it wasn't rugged enough for my tastes (I was looking for "Renegade Snares" revved up to 11 and I got it, only without the renegade snares).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 11:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Haunted Science was more of an home-listening record, whereas The Deepest Cut was a dancefloor album (or to be precise, a collection of dancefloor singles). Having said that, I think Haunted Science has much more attention to detail, and The Deepest Cut sounds a bit simplistic and dated in comparison. Still works on the dancefloor, though...

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the second Gordons' album a lot. It hasn't got Alister on it, so there may be diplomatic reasons for the bands' dislike. Also I like "Adventure" maybe a little bit less than "Marquee Moon", that's about it. Oh, and I hate that song "Night Train" off Appetite, the best track's "It's So Easy"... I knew a guy who thought the Stooges totally lost it after the first record!

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 11:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Tuomos, you are making me smile; I think the biggest failure of _Haunted Science_ is that it wasn't a dancefloor record (and, once you got past "Who Are You?" it was boring as piss). It seems that all of the things you're holding up as virtues are the things I hated about it.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 12:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Suggesting MC5 for this thread is funny, cuz Kick Out the Jams is EASILY their worst record. EASILY.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I find "Back in the USA" pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to listen to without getting angry at the idiotic ideas of "purist" (or whatever) rock n' roll contained in it... it makes me angrier than just about any record ever, God, like rock's pure ANYWAY, and if yr going to make this kind of claim shouldn't yr record ROCK in the first place? Eh? Too many times spent w/this on the car stereo of my friend's car while we got stoned, maybe

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"Back In the USA" has some of the greatest songs ever recorded on it! But that tinny production annoys the hell out of me. Fucking Jon Landau, as if discovering Bruce Springsteen wasn't bad enough!

― Dadaismus, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like Back in the USA, but my favorite by far is High Time -- the perfect combo of the sloppy jamming of Kick Out the Jams (which ultimately tumbles cuz of its own heady goals) and the tight melodies of Back in the USA.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll take *Back in the USA,* though I honestly haven't listened to any of the three in years, and I only really can sing two songs from the first one (Ramblin Rose, title track) and one from the third (Sister Anne) off the top of my head. But I think Yancey's right about *Kick Out the Jams* being their worst record -- I mean, after all that boring Sun Ra bullshit, "purism" is an improvement for sure.

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Rock "purism" isn't bullshit? Anyway if you can sing two songs off the former and one off the latter, KOTJ wins

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe -- But I can probably sing seven off the middle one (which really has nothing to do with purism anyway, when you get down to it.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't? I like this "can I sing it" style of worthiness, a LOT. But really, BITUSA infuriates me horribly, is it really down to listening conditions? It's actually NOT conditioned by wanting to be pure r n r? Besides, the best MC5 record is clearly the "Looking at You" single, etc, probably. That's annoying indieism, but it's kinda true in this case, to me

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Also sorry for misreading yr orig post

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

It's actually NOT conditioned by wanting to be pure r n r?

What does this mean? And does it even matter if it wants to be "pure r n r?" (and what the fuck is pure r n r anyway?) Just cuz it's bookended by Little Richard and Chuck Berry covers doesn't mean that the middle bits are an attempt to capture that same spirit, and even if it did, why does it matter? It's a short record that never catches its breath (cept for maybe my fave MC5 moments, "Teenage Lust" and "Let Me Try"). After reading Mansion on the Hill I was ready to curse Landau for ruining the MC5, but he actually made them BETTER with this record. He made them tight, which was something they sorely needed.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

here's one: The Roches

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

a)there IS no pure r n r, b)I'm happy you like this record, honestly! It just feels super stilted to me.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Yancey's right again (though I'm old an "American Ruse"/"Shakin' Street"/"Human Being Lawnmower" fan myself). And I'll add this: Why would it matter what Landau's intentions were anyway? I don't care if he was *trying* to make a nostalgia record; I care about what I HEAR.

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

IT DOES NOT ROCK ME. I'm getting pretty suspicious of any music criticism that doesn't start from this point. If it rocks you, YAY! On a personal note, "American Ruse" feels like the start of too many horrible bands to support.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not actually suggesting yr not getting rocked, to each their own rocks

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, what'd be wrong with wanting to capture Chuck Berry's or Little Richard's spirit in the first place? And why is that by definition worse than trying to capture Sun Ra's spirit? (He had less, anyway! Or even if he did, he DEFINITELY didn't "rock" as much as they did.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Why doesn't it rock you, Andrew? So far it seems to be the idea of the record that turns you off.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I care about what I HEAR

That's the exact point I was trying to make the other day!

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

No really it's the record, I'm just trying (in vain) to work out WHY it bugged me so much and so turning to theory. Also, I love Chuck Berry, I love Little Richard, I love Sun Ra. To me the MC5 did a better job of chanelling/asserting themselves through their Sun Ra pretensions than in trying to recapture the spirit of early r n r (tho I think Creedence did a pretty good job on that (in a affected but rocking way), so ignore me probably). And I am TIRED and annoyed cos I'd like to continue this but I have to sleep. I'm sorry, BITUSA aannoys me. I am, quite honestly, glad you like it, Chuck and Yancey. Also I pretty much agree w.Oops but that's a bummer cos like NO-ONE is EVER objective, right?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Debbie Gibson kind of was a pop genius, though.

I'll give her credit for the fact that "Foolish Beat" was actually a great pop song. But that's it.

(Btw. "Could Have Been" was a nice song too, but, unlike Debbie Gibson, Tiffany didn't write it herself)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

er...how do you quantify the amount of 'spirit' chuck?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

why would i want to "quantify" it? what does that mean?

but yeah, some music sounds more spirited to me than other music.

― chuck, Wednesday, 9 April 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

There is a second X-Ray Spex album, made sometime in the mid'90s I think, but I've never heard it. There's also a Poly Styrene solo album, from around 1980 I think.

"I got a dog-eat-dog sly smile/I got a Molotov cocktail under my arm/I smoke my cigarette with style" is one of my favorite lyrics ever.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

the new Blue Man Group album sucks ass

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 10 April 2003 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

The production of Don't Look Back alone might disqualify it for this thread. It's so . . . puffed up and glow-in-the-dark. Plus, "Don't Look Back" and "A Man I'll Never Be" are among Boston's best songs and I like some of the rest too ("It's Easy" and "Feelin' Satisfied" are really pleasant).

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 10 April 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

*Don't Look Back* is a *much* better album than Boston's debut! It's not even close! (Even ask Greil Marcus!) Plus, doesn't "It's Easy" sound exactly like "I Wanna Be Your Dog" or something? I think so!!

Three more nominations I just thought of, though: (1) Echo and the Bunnymen. (2) DEFINITELY The Cure (counting either *Three Imaginary Boys* or {the one I grew up on] *Boys Don't Cry* as their debut. (3) Fishbone, who debuted with a pretty great EP then sucked ass forever.

(Maybe the Busboys, too. Have you kids ever even HEARD of them??)

If I was an obstinate jerk I'd also nominate Radiohead, since "Creep" alone beats the rest of their career, but I'm not, so I won't.

― chuck, Thursday, 10 April 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

A few more groups who probably peaked aristically with their debut EPs (a few of which I haven't heard in, like, 15 years, so maybe I'm wrong): Flaming Lips ("I Want My Own Planet" is the best song they will EVER do, I swear), White Zombie, Laughing Hyenas, Scratch Acid, and (a little less so, since their followup EP and first full-length album were pretty wonderful as well), the Butthole Surfers. Also, as far as I know, the Vibrators never made anything remotely of worth after *Pure Mania,* which is one of the best punk albums of all time.

― chuck, Thursday, 10 April 2003 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

(Maybe the Busboys, too. Have you kids ever even HEARD of them??)

I never heard a Busboys' album, but I saw them twice in 1980-81 - first in a small Chicago club where they were incredibly fun, and later in an arena opening for the Stray Cats for which I hope they were well compensated.

― Curt (cgould), Thursday, 10 April 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

We did this before once, and I remember posting several artists I assumed all would agree, but quickly learned otherwise. I've since re-listened to a few (or bothered to hear for the first time), and come around to the revisionist view on the Slits and (less so) the Pop Group. Conversely, after challenging somebody who posted This Heat's Deceit, I had to seek out (ie, dowload) their debut, which was well worth the effort (ie, mouse clicks).

This time around, Rain Parade comes to mind, although they were hardly the same band after Roback's departure. I would add the Dream Syndicate, except I have a feeling their later albums might hold up better than my memory of them. Likewise for the (English) Beat - Wh'appen? seemed like such a dud at the time, I never gave it a second spin, but I might be more receptive to its less ska-frenzied sound.

― Curt (cgould), Thursday, 10 April 2003 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...
"Waiting for the Redbird" by Easterhouse ('89). Followed the brilliant "Contenders" ('86). Redeeming song: "Come out fighting".

What a waste...or as Kevin Shields said in an interview froms c.a. '99: "I lost it".

― Arnar Eggert Thoroddsen (arnart1802), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

And of course...Ned's Atomic Dustbin

― Arnar Eggert Thoroddsen (arnart1802), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

how could we forget?

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

Big Country

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

genius???

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

canibus: even though the first album was far from genius.
mos definitely lauryn hill: what was she thinking?
oh man, camp lo
dmx
i also think that new franz ferdinand is too comfortable being mediocre

― the rock n roll nigga (the rock n roll nigga), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

I actually like "10000 Hrx Legend" better than "Moon Safari" and the virgin suicides soundtrack.

I assume I'm the only one.

Also Daft Punk's "Dsicovery" is a MUCH better "Album" than their first, easily. Try getting a copy of "Interstella 5555" on DVD, mindblowing.

― Erock LAzron, Tuesday, 21 February 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

Shuggie Otis.
Fan Modine.
Future Bible Heroes.
Liliput.
Mark Eitzel. (WEST)
Spain.

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Tuesday, 21 February 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

Billy Joel. The first LP ("Atilla") was great. The rest of his career is of no interest.

― drench, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 03:11 (nineteen years ago)

Neko Case.

I know opinions are opinions, but I think Shuggie Otis blew it on his first album (HERE COMES SHUGGIE OTIS), which was just generic blues-rock. The final album, INSPIRATION INFORMATION, is where he really got it together (there were three Shuggie albums in all).

― Rev. Hoodoo (Rev. Hoodoo), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 05:22 (nineteen years ago)

the flirts

― Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 05:28 (nineteen years ago)

I thought Mum's first album (Yesterday was dramatic...) was fantastic.
Their second one was just ok, same with the third.

I think the first one was so great because there was almost no singing. That girl's
voice is so fey it's embarassing to listen to it around other people.

― Zach S, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 05:52 (nineteen years ago)

I think Sasha is TOTALLY wrong about Black Sheep; Non-Fiction is a great album, beats n rhymes are both on point throughout.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 05:55 (nineteen years ago)

He didnt really present an argument so I'll just play devil's advocate with the allmusic guide review that appears to agree w him; to me their lack of um 'imagination' and 'playfulness' was an intentional stylistic shift that reflected the times but it seems like a lot of critics took this as a fuck-up on the part of the artist; to me it was just another dimension, and while I wouldn't say in Black Sheep's case it was a huge step forward I certainly prefer parallel records in say De La's catalogue to the early more-praised ones.

Or maybe I just think "Summa The Time" is the jam.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 05:59 (nineteen years ago)

ned, you are truly the awesomest for mentioning menswear

― corey c (shock of daylight), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:00 (nineteen years ago)

I'm as big as fan as anyone who's a fan, but my money's on Bloc Party to totally choke on the second album (if "Hero" and "Two More Years" are indications of where they're headed).

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:05 (nineteen years ago)

I hear "Two More Years," it sounded like one of their best songs! Admittedly I remember like two others.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:11 (nineteen years ago)

I liked "Two More Years" roughly the first 2 or 3 times I heard it, but it's got the staying power of an ice cube in summer.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:24 (nineteen years ago)

The Style Council (after "Cafe Bleu"/"My Ever Changing Moods")
Everything But The Girl (after "Eden"/"Everything But The Girl")
and the best of the early-80s Brit jazz-pop:
Carmel (after "The Drum Is Everything")

― Eazy (Eazy), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:26 (nineteen years ago)

Suicide

― Da Na Not! (donut), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:38 (nineteen years ago)

Arctic Monkeys.

― cnwb (cnwb), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:44 (nineteen years ago)

mos def: what was he thinking?

Fixed.

― brilliant young and angsty (thatguy), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 06:54 (nineteen years ago)

I can't believe I got that up in arms on this thread. oh wait, yes I can because it's what I did back then, god help me.

Led Zeppelin. just kidding.

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 08:19 (nineteen years ago)

Hrm I think Propaganda merit a mention.

― The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

I'm arguing with a post from 3 years ago but whatever:

Disagree with DRI and the Circle Jerks - they blew it completely on their THIRD albums! Dealing With It and Wild In The Streets are both good albums IMO. Not GREAT albums like their debuts, but not total crap either. Both bands' third albums sucked though.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

three weeks pass...
I still like that first Kula Shaker album. But only that one.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 20 March 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

"The sound of drums" seemed to suggest the second album was going to be genius.

Guess that did not happen.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 20 March 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Leaders of the New Scool
UMC's
Das Efx

― mucho, Monday, 20 March 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

Already been mentioned, but Nirvana was definitely the first name to spring to mind for me.

― alext (alext), Monday, 20 March 2006 17:32 (nineteen years ago)

cyndi lauper?

missing persons!

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Monday, 20 March 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

Devendra Banhart.

― Francisco Monar (fmonar), Monday, 20 March 2006 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

nirvana? you're nuts

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 20 March 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

TORI AMOS

― piscesboy, Monday, 20 March 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

Already been mentioned, but Nirvana was definitely the first name to spring to mind for me.

You are entitled to your opinions, but millions may disagree with you.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 20 March 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

heed the voice of experience

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 20 March 2006 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

The first three Dev albums are schuh-weet. Cripple Crow, however, was disappointing in that it had too many of his pals making it sound pretty and less of the withcy mystery. But he's young and ridiculously talented, I'm sure he'll continue to make great records.

Neko Case!?

Nirvana?!

I think Lauryn Hill owns this thread.

― stew!, Monday, 20 March 2006 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

I've been listening to some of Swervedriver's first album, and man, that stuff is gripping! Escpecially the song "Deep Seat", with it's grungy syncopated rhythm. The vocals don't add much, but they don't take away either. I have to wonder, even though they seem like mostly a pre-rave band, the rave movement seems like it was unavoidable to hip British kids back then. How much of an influence was it on those songs? After that album, well...

― viborgu, Monday, 20 March 2006 19:43 (nineteen years ago)

yeah yeah yeahs

― Christopher Costello (CGC), Monday, 20 March 2006 22:34 (nineteen years ago)

hootie and the blowfish

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Monday, 20 March 2006 22:46 (nineteen years ago)

GENIUS?

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 March 2006 22:49 (nineteen years ago)

nah im just messin wif y'all

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Monday, 20 March 2006 22:50 (nineteen years ago)

Blues Traveller

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Monday, 20 March 2006 22:50 (nineteen years ago)

My guess is that all the people who nominate Nirvana think that "Nevermind" was their first album! Either that, or they're not too fond for major label debuts!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Monday, 20 March 2006 23:09 (nineteen years ago)

The Stone Roses - I remember hearing Begging You first and being blown away... how disappointed I was when I heard the rest of the album

Mercury Rev
Nas
Iron & Wine
Insides - not counting Clear Skin
Junior Boys? Not that impressed with the new track I heard, Max

― Treblekicker (treblekicker), Monday, 20 March 2006 23:22 (nineteen years ago)

not counting clear skin by insides....did they even DO another album as insides?

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 20 March 2006 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

Elastica and Stone Roses, definitely.

King Crimson
Big Audio Dynamite
De La Soul

― Mitya (mitya), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:02 (nineteen years ago)

My guess is that all the people who nominate Nirvana think that "Nevermind" was their first album! Either that, or they're not too fond for major label debuts!

-- xgurggleglgllg (lamewa...), March 20th, 2006.

or just being typical contrarians!

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:09 (nineteen years ago)

not counting clear skin by insides....did they even DO another album as insides?

http://www.artist-shop.com/3rdstone/sweet.jpg
Not a very big pic. More here, halfway down

http://www.artist-shop.com/3rdstone/index.htm

― Treblekicker (treblekicker), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:15 (nineteen years ago)

My guess is that all the people who nominate Nirvana think that "Nevermind" was their first album! Either that, or they're not too fond for major label debuts!

The sad thing for me was that In Utero had the melodies of Nevermind with the rawness of Bleach... but that's another thread :)

― Treblekicker (treblekicker), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:16 (nineteen years ago)

Kanye! What a yak he turned out to be.

― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

Elastica and Stone Roses, definitely.
King Crimson
Big Audio Dynamite
De La Soul

De La Soul? You must be daft.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:22 (nineteen years ago)

My guess is that all the people who nominate Nirvana think that "Nevermind" was their first album! Either that, or they're not too fond for major label debuts!

-- xgurggleglgllg (lamewa...), March 20th, 2006.

or just being typical contrarians!

-- latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (posercore24...), March 20th, 2006.


BINGO!!! (will "bingo ever catch on as the next "otm"??....i wish)

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 04:27 (nineteen years ago)

five years pass...

Norah Jones. Second album was a snoozer.

Here'a real oldie: The Left Banke. Yes, they had plenty of good songs besides "Walk Away, Renee", but they're all on their first album.

Not sure why someone nominated Shuggie Otis, nor am I sure what constitutes his first album, but his last two are his best. And it's not because I don't like blues, which dominates his early stuff.

I'm looking through my iPod and finding lots of artists/bands whose first two albums were great, and then they deteriorated badly.

― Lee626, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 23:02 (fourteen years ago)

The second album by Left Banke is great and underrated. Even if the group was very much disintegrating at the time.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 23:47 (fourteen years ago)

Electric Soft Parade. They would recover to some extent on the third though.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 23:47 (fourteen years ago)

Norah Jones. Second album was a snoozer.

First album was a snoozer too iirc

― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:14 (fourteen years ago)

I would say Norah Jones didn't really lose it until the third album. The second one was a continuation of the first, and not at all bad.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:17 (fourteen years ago)

Listen to Second Coming closely. They're much better musicians than on the debut. There are some excellent songs on that album.

Better musicians maybe. But, apart from "Ten Storey Lovesong", the songs just don't hold up. They are repetitive and cyclic and mantra-like, without the melodic qualities of tunes like "Made Of Stone", "Bye Bye Badman" or "I Wanna Be Adored"

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:26 (fourteen years ago)

I prefer The Left Banke Too over the debut.

― Beggar On A Beach Of Shite. (PaulTMA), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:39 (fourteen years ago)

Adam & The Ants.

― Beggar On A Beach Of Shite. (PaulTMA), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:41 (fourteen years ago)

Ride

― kraudive, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:46 (fourteen years ago)

^ SO RONG

― Challops Never End (Pillbox), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:49 (fourteen years ago)

meh, If you think so. I count Nowhere here as the debut - the stuff before was awesome obv. The EP tracks they did within the same year (i.e Today Forever) are maybe even better. But after that (not Leave Them All Behind) they were BUST.

― kraudive, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:57 (fourteen years ago)

or it could just be that Going Blank Again is every bit as good as Nowhere.

after that, though..

― Challops Never End (Pillbox), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 00:59 (fourteen years ago)

Warren G
Goldie

― henry s, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 01:14 (fourteen years ago)

"Going Blank Again" is the best Ride album. Period.

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 01:23 (fourteen years ago)

Leftfield

― Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 01:24 (fourteen years ago)

Age of Chance : 1000 Years of Trouble : brilliant.
Age of Chance : Mecca : not so brilliant.

― mark e, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:17 (fourteen years ago)

His second album isn't bad, but Trentemøller.

― StanM, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 07:37 (fourteen years ago)

Going Blank Again is snoozeville. kraudive otm.

but I like Elastica's second album, so what do I know?

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 08:03 (fourteen years ago)

A recent example that probably only I care about, but Kissy Sell Out's first album was a great bit of exuberant pop recorded as a trio. A lot of the guy's old fans hated it because he kind of turned his back on club and dj culture, but I loved it like mad. His new one is a return to club music and is absolutely boring end to end. Haven't found a consensus anywhere yet on what the old fans think ("a return to form?"), but I hate it.

― Johnny Fever, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 08:08 (fourteen years ago)


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.
Site New Answers Search Boards ILE ILM Answers New Question New Questions New Poll Blog View Register Login