Who's getting into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

related to which -- are Black Sabbath and Captain Beefheart in the Hall?

another glowing synth-pop omission i just notice -- no kraftwerk! for that omission alone and even ignoring their dissing the Zappa family, the HoF should be obliterated and turned into a parking lot!

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc400/c422/c4226570233.jpg

are eligible this year!

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre400/e459/e459359jtm0.jpg

Some quality picks.

Finally The Moody Blues made it in.

Radiohead snubbed and Bob Jovi inducted???
BOB JOVI???
Wtfuuuuuuuuuuck

Dick Dale wuz robbed.

Wire is a shoo-in next year

Come on, Bon Jovi has been eligible for a decade longer than Radiohead.

The rock hall finally has its New Jersey moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNsgOhIcqNQ

lol "Bob Jovi"

I mean I like The Cars fine but how I'm bewildered how they'd get in over Radiohead/The Cure/SP, etc.

They're one of the most-played rock bands on US and Canadian radio and have been eligible a lot longer than Radiohead or Smashing Pumpkins. Hall of Fame in recognizing fame shocker.

Also one of the best singles bands period.

Reminder that Blue Oyster Cult is not in the the hall and it's bullshit.

The Cars are a better band than Radiohead, for starters.

Reminder that Blue Oyster Cult is not in the the hall and it's bullshit.

Now that is an objection I can get behind.

i mean fucking a band as slight as GREEN DAY is in and BOC isn't it's ridiculous

also Radiohead should absolutely be in as well, there's so many b-list 60s artists that got in they more than deserve by that standard

I'm practically a stan for Radiohead post-The Bends but I'm not at all offended that they weren't admitted in the very first year they were eligible, and I genuinely think Bon Jovi and the Cars deserve it.

Bon Jovi is sort of like Yes (and Green Day) where they are going to (unfortunately) "stand for" a big genre (80s pop metal, prog and post-80s punk respectively) and then absolve them of having to induct any other bands from those genres

so when Bon Jovi gets in it's because their Springsteen-lite elements means they are more palatable to the hall than Def Leppard or any of the other huge bands of that era

Motorhead isn't in either, which is even more puzzling as it's probably the most quintessential 'rock n roll' band of the past 40 years.

they are another band that's going to suffer because the hall inducted Metallica so they feel like they "covered" a whole big swath of metal

basically because the hall is warped by this horrible jan wenner descended version of the "canon" every genre of rock that's not part of the rolling stone 60s/70s classic rock lineage is going to be viewed as some sort of token

yup

Bob Jovi does not deserve to get in. There's not a single good act that would remotely call them an influence, no critics would call them especially good, and if popularity is the biggest criteria, then why have votes at all?*

*It goes without saying that who cares about the rock hall, but while we're here ...

Motorhead really arent that metal at all, they’re far closer to AC/DC Ramones or even Chuck Berry than to the whole Maiden Priest Sabbath Metallica axis, but I guess the umlaut doesnt help.

i'm not arguing, and they should totally be in! i'm just saying in the heads of the ppl that vote they just know like ace of spades and the logo and think of them as a metal band

just imagining going to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and saying, "hey kids, we have to be sure to see the DIRE STRAITS exhibit."

a tasteful display of knopfler's headbands

Not many kids went to see the Dire Straits exhibit, but everyone who did bought their own headband

Moody blues rule, glad they got in

I hear they're being inducted by a Mellotron.

Bob Jovi does not deserve to get in. There's not a single good act that would remotely call them an influence, no critics would call them especially good, and if popularity is the biggest criteria, then why have votes at all?*

But I think Bon Jovi wrote some classic verse/pre-chorus/chorus anthems (that are not just popular but enduring), JBJ is a good singer (that high D in "Livin' on a Prayer" is hard!), Sambora played some memorable melodies, they put on a good live show, and JBJ has used his wealth and fame to constructive ends.

Their hair influenced a generation.

bon jovi are so so so emblematic of the RARHOF ethos, they're induction is not surprising to me in the least

kiss was a controversial inductee if I recall correctly, but a better case can be made for them than Bon Jovi. The only case that can be made for Bon Jovi is that they were or are popular and wrote A Few catchy songs, but like I said, by that standard just about everybody should be put into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, so why even bother with the whole concept?

Though actually, wasn't Bon Jovi a fan write-in vote? I'm cool with that, they have fans, and I'm all for populist fan vote power, since I think that's how Rush got in.

I was curious about the whole process behind voting in bands. Just figured it was Wenner handpicking them. These two articles were enlightening...

http://www.vulture.com/2016/12/problem-with-rrhof-voting.html
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6531175/inside-rock-roll-hall-fame-induction-process-secrets-jann-wenner

This paragraph...

The Hall’s mission is to honor "musical excellence and influence," says Joel Peresman, president/CEO of the Hall of Fame Foundation, a tax-exempt 501(c)(3) charity. Notions of excellence are subjective, and the objective standard of record sales (often cited by advocates of The Monkees, Chicago and Janet Jackson, among others) doesn’t sway the Hall -- popularity "can be a marker of artistic excellence," says Wenner, but it’s not a primary consideration. Historically, the Hall (just like Rolling Stone) has favored earnest, guitar-based rock acts over top 40 stars. Committee members "see themselves as keepers of the flame of integrity," says an insider.

Barf

bon jovi > kiss

I guess Jon bovi had ambition going for him but come on. That’s not enough. That one song is pure pop and he is not rock and roll.

Yeah, I was wondering what the obviously stronger case was for Kiss over Bon Jovi but wasn't sure it was worth pursuing.

Kiss sucks, but there are a bunch of acts that claim to be fans and/or influenced by Kiss, from those that saw them on TV or heard about them via their cartoonish infamy or found them for whatever reason a formative act. Again, literally no one claims the same of Bon Jovi.

I mean, these google results aren't exactly proof, but they're telling:

"influenced by Bon Jovi" About 401,000 results (0.66 seconds)

"influenced by kiss" about 24,300,000 results (0.70 seconds)

Vitally, all but one of the first page of results for the BJ search were about bands that influenced Bon Jovi, save one link to people debating whether or not Bon Jovi had influenced anyone. The first three Kiss links alone were praise from Nikki Sixx, Questlove and some Esquire piece titled "How Kiss Created Indie Rock."

Everyone over the age of 16 knows that Kiss is a joke, right? The barest of substance shellacked with a ton of lacquer. Why they’re part of this conversation I’ll never know.

Because they were controversially inducted into the rock hall despite everything you say being true, which makes them totally germane. Bon Jovi doesn't even have being an adolescent joke going for them.

they had a decent drummer

"Wanted Dead or Alive" solo = classic

Pure kitsch

unlike KISS

Kiss were shit, but they have a few songs that transcend kitsch, imo. But not many!

Anyway, Kiss deserves to rock hall for this alone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unerBailPS0

Honestly, maybe it has something to do with growing up in Philly, so close to NJ, but even when I was 11 I thought the songs from "Slippery When Wet" sucked, and if I owe Bon Jovi anything it's for driving me away from radio music and toward other things. Not sure I knew anything about Kiss at that point, though.

The only case that can be made for Bon Jovi is that they were or are popular and wrote A Few catchy songs, but like I said, by that standard just about everybody should be put into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, so why even bother with the whole concept?

As I said elsewhere, at this point, given who's already in, there's no legitimate argument for ANY nominee being excluded. The whole thing is such a hodgepodge, with absolutely no definition of what constitutes "rock and roll," that the word "deserve" no longer applies, if it did past the first class of inductees.

Second everything Josh says about Bon Jovi--working in a downtown record store in 1986, when their big breakthrough album was ubiquitous, was torture. (While they were on the turntable, that is...there was also True Blue and the Pet Shop Boys and lots of other good stuff.)

Bad Medicine is just a horrible, horrible song. Results like that make me believe that civilization deserves to fall. "Your love is like bad medicine, bad medicine is what I need..." Just a cowboy's crime against nature.

As bad as bongiovi is I’d take him over the pet shop boys anytime

(xpost) Not sure if you're familiar with this Rob Sheffield appropriation: "Thoreau is like Ralph Emerson/Ralph Emerson is what I read..."

there's so many b-list 60s artists that got in

― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, December 15, 2017 7:24 AM (yesterday)

Nah. Like who?

The GOAT status of inductees like The Band, The Animals, The Lovin' Spoonful, Dave Clark Five, The Paul Butterfield Blues Band is pretty iffy.

Given that Guns N Roses are in, who were even later to the hair metal party, there's no real reason why Bon Jovi shouldn't be.

First of all, the Band are clearly one of the GOATs, in terms of music, impact and influence.

Second of all, GNR were hardly hair metal, and again, influence and impact much greater than Bon Jovi nerf rock.

First of all, the Band are clearly one of the GOATs, in terms of music, impact and influence.

Take them out of that statement and replace them with the fucking Turtles, then, whose primary achievements have been litigious, not musical.

Flo and Eddie sing backup on some classic I just recently heard for the first time. It’s killing me but I can’t remember what it was

The Turtles are not in the R&RHOF.

Not sure I'd want to make a case against any of the others mentioned but some are definitely ones where you think, "If they're in, band X should be in too."

Fuck the rock and roll hall of fame

flo & eddie sing backup on "Love my Way", a classic.

Also on Hungry Heart.

(xpost) Not sure if you're familiar with this Rob Sheffield appropriation: "Thoreau is like Ralph Emerson/Ralph Emerson is what I read..."

!
That now goes into the "lock the taskbar"/"Rock the Casbah" hall of fame.

I'm surprised so many artists care about the "hall of fame", so obviously a sham

calstars at 2:20 17 Dec 17

Flo and Eddie sing backup on some classic I just recently heard for the first time. It’s killing me but I can’t remember what it was

Nice one but that’s not it

I'm surprised so many artists care about the "hall of fame", so obviously a sham

― niels, Monday, December 18, 2017 5:44 AM (thirteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Because it usually means a significant bump in album sales (people who pay attention to these sorts of news items still purchase music); can't find the source, but I'm pretty sure Fleetwood Mac received a 600% increase in albums sales due to their induction.

That being said, fuck Bon Jovi forever. Yes, I still find a few of their 80's songs to be catchy. If that's the goal line, Jesus. The floodgates are about to open.

And this is where I subject my subjective-ass opinion, but if any popular rock band from the past 20-odd years deserves to be a first-ballot band, it's Radiohead. I mean, really? Ask most under-40-something music critics working today, and I honestly believe a Radiohead album will appear in the top 50 albums of all time. Can we say that about Bon Fucking Jovi?

I'm guessing also that some of them care about it more in a "How can they put them in if we're not?" sense. Or bands that sold a lot of records without much critical support (the Kisses and Moody Blues, for example) who need some validation on that front.

Hey, Clemenza! I'm not sure I understand you. Are you stating that a hypothetical question among the voting members is, "Bon Jovi sold a shit-load more records than Radiohead; therefore they need to be inducted first"?

There is no question that Bon Jovi is more known than Radiohead [true story (anecdotal, but true): back in '12, I asked my then-36-year-old manager for a day off to attend the Radiohead King of Limbs tour. Her only response was, "who?"]

I don't want Bon Jovi in there, believe me--scroll back 20 posts or so. I'm not a big Radiohead fan (like a handful of songs, have two or three CDs), but objectively they make perfect sense. My comment before yours was strictly trying to look at the HOF from a band's perspective, why some of them seem to care so much.

Additionally: When bands like Kiss say they don't care at all about critics (often while waving their limousines and gold records around), I don't believe that. I think many of them care deeply, just like I think people who are constantly telling you they don't care about the Baseball HOF or the Academy Awards actually do. I really believe that how much people care about certain things can often be measured inversely by how often and how stridently they make a point of telling you they don't care. The stuff I actually don't care about, I rarely, if ever, talk about. Because I don't care.

Ha, agreed! It does signify something significant to the bands' themselves. I mean, I guess I can totally understand a band that's existed, in some form or another, for the past 25-some-odd years. What else is there to strive to?

Getting a cameo on The Simpsons, that's about it.

^LOL! Thanks for mentioning another pop-culture relic I've lost touch with. Seasons- 4-10 are the best ever! (I totally rewatch these seasons) I totally lost touch with the show after that.

GNR were hardly hair metal, influence and impact much greater

They arrived on the tail end of it, when the overly glammy look was already over (see also: Extreme, Skid Row, Tesla) and cultivated the bad boy image/controversies/etc but musically they fit right in. Any song on the first two records could've been on a Motley Crue album. The blatant revisionism around these asshats (who still, admittedly, wrote a couple of excellent rock songs) irritates me to no end.

As far as influence/impact, as soon as a year after the Use Your Illusion that whole scene sunk like a stone and absolutely nobody wanted to look or sound like them (or Bon Jovi for that matter) anymore, at least not until Steel Panther came along. For actual influence and impact, you're looking at Aerosmith or Def Leppard.

Love the band or hate them, I absolutely disagree that any of those early GNR songs are interchangeable with any of the Motley Crue songs. Of course, not sure I consider Crue hair metal either. As for influence and impact, like a lot of bands GNR transcends its music. Again, like them or not.

if you can't instantly tell a GnR song from a Bon Jovi song from a Crue song in like 10 seeing you maybe should just not comment

also 80s hair metal had a huge influence on the next decades of super popular modern country

particularly bon jovi

jovi and poison, yeah.

I do think a case can be made that Bon Jovi has been a big influence on country music. They should put them in the Country Hall!

I have it on good authority that he is a cowboy.

Yeah, they even had a country #1 with "Who Says You Can't Go Home" about a decade ago.

Les Claypool: Bon Jovi was actually a big influence on Primus back in the day. Basically, the influence was that we wanted to make music that was the polar opposite of Bon Jovi.

listen i'm glad y'all grew up suckin on the tittie of the minutemen and mayhem bootleg cassettes and sun ra by age 14 for for a lot of kids in small rural towns that literally had to drive an hour to another town to go to a record store, this bullshit was all we had, and there's a generation of people who all the garish bullshit means a lot to, it does for me. and it was as big as any kind of rock music that ever existed, and i think there's a lot of great songs in the whole big spandex mess

YOU'RE ALL SO FUCKIN COOL AND HAVE EXCELLENT TASTE AND ALWAYS HAVE

burn down the rock n roll hall of fame

I think the trouble with having a HOF is that it needs to bow to so many different altars.

Fame, influence, popularity, belovedness, longevity, and critical acclaim are all assumed to be factors to varying degrees. One can argue that it's not called "Hall of People Who Deserve to be Famous." It's a hall of people who ARE famous.

On the other hand there is the corrective impulse: these acts have been ignored too long, acts like this have been ignored too long, people like this have been marginalized, these people suffered while others thrived, these people are skilled yet they have been sneered at, these people created the foundation that other acts stand upon, etc.

And there is the (related) balance impulse: you inducted Act A, so why not Acts B, C, D, etc.

So right now every discussion of who should be in the HOF takes on all these dimensions. It's both necessary (as a kind of karmic justice) and kind of boring (because it takes on an eat-your-vegetables cast).

So what mega selling rock acts have yet to get in?

Garth Brooks and Shania? Are Boston, Whitney or Alanis in? Bee Gees yet?

Country acts are pretty much left to the country music hall of fame - even Willie Nelson, a huge star with crossover appeal in the 70s and 80s, isn’t in the rock hall. Bee Gees have been in since the late 90s. The way things are going I can picture Boston getting in on the fan ballot in the next few years. Whitney may get in eventually, Alanis I can’t see happening.

So country acts can get into the rock hall, but not the opposite?

everyone complaining about bon jovi and tacitly approving dire straits is a cop or worse a boomer sympathizer

I do renounce them both, all their works and pomps

Yeah see this is the kind of thing you get into when you even countenance the idea of the HOF, and personally I refuse to be drawn.

If Kinks then why not Replacements; if Animals then why not Turtles, if REM then why not the Fall, etc.

Either admit every band ever? Admit it's just a hall of Wenner? No one can precisely locate the dividing line so take your pick and justify/defend as you see fit, but the conversation will never end because it's dangerously close to arbitrary.

Close to arbitrary?!

it’s exceedingly arbitrary

It exceeds arbitrary.

everyone complaining about bon jovi and tacitly approving dire straits is a cop or worse a boomer sympathizer

^^^this

What's wrong with Dire Straits?

You’re taking the piss right?

I've got to say the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction news for Bon Jovi kinda bugged me. As a Def Leppard fan, I put together a detailed "face-off" comparing the 2 bands to show which one is REALLY more "worthy" of the honor.

I hope you find it interesting...Feel free to share it if you agree!

"Bon Jovi, but not Def Leppard? For Shame Rock & Roll Hall of Fame!"
https://www.nostalgiclogic.com/bon-jovi-not-def-leppard-shame/

How many more threads are you going to post this on

https://pitchfork.com/news/radiohead-the-cure-janet-jackson-inducted-into-rock-hall-of-fame/

Someone finally recognized Radiohead!

We should have each other to tea huh?
We should have each other with cream
Then curl up by the fire
And sleep for awhile
It's the grooviest thing
It's the perfect dream...

Someone finally recognized Radiohead!

― Allen (etaeoe), Thursday, December 13, 2018 2:48 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

About damn time! The Radio Head is a good rock 'n roll band, with evergreens like The Creep and My Bronze Lung.

lol at the Pitchfork blurb stressing Roxy Music (with Brian Eno) just to get Brian Eno's name in there, as if Roxy Music by itself is too much of a head scratcher.

While I suspect they will puss-out and attend, it would be great if Radiohead blew it off and instead they had an allstar band of like Adam Levine, Chris Martin, Ed Sheehan and Sam Smith pay tribute or something.

lol

Don't mention Chris Martin -- it only serves to remind us that Coldplay will one day be joining them.

Bryan Ferry singing Janet's "Come Back to Me" = dream of a lifetime fulfilled.

This is a really strong list of inductees - like, even as some random idiot millennial I'm at least a baseline level of impressed with every name on there, and a few of them I really love - but the stubborn fanboy in me still really wishes Todd Rundgren had gotten a spot. I'm not sure who I'd have the nerve to say shouldn't be on there, though (especially if I had to affirm my choice to a fan of that act). Def Leppard, maybe?

Maybe Stevie Nicks, going on an unchecked assumption that Fleetwood Mac are already inducted.

I was thinking the same thing, about this being a really strong “class” — both “critically” and in terms of “popularity,” at several different levels.

i'm not a fan of their music, but def leppard was the most popular band of a dominant genre (hair metal) for years. it's hard to argue they don't deserve to be in the rock hall, especially if the objectively inferior bon jovi is in already

Guns n Roses too.

Hysteria is definitely a landmark piece of work...insane album

First four albums all solid

it's hard to argue they don't deserve to be in the rock hall, especially if the objectively inferior bon jovi is in already

Literally the only argument in their favor IMO. "Well, we let this even shittier band in - guess we're stuck with 'em."

Eric Clapton is in three times

xp Funny how you cut out the first part of Voodoo Chili's argument!

I'm starting to think Wire isn't going to get in!!!

xp Funny how you cut out the first part of Voodoo Chili's argument!

Because "they were really popular!" doesn't mean anything to me.

Fine, but here are the Rock Hall's official criteria:

Performers
This category honors bands or solo artists which demonstrate musical excellence. Such a descriptor includes (but isn't limited to) influence on other performers or genres; length and depth of career and catalog; stylistic innovations; or superior technique and skills.

They also say, Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll.

Given those loosey-goosey standards, an argument can certainly be made for Def Leppard that goes beyond, "Well, we let in KISS and Bon Jovi..."!

i don't like hair metal, but it seems silly to me to have a rock hall and not include hair metal

i don't like hair metal, but it seems silly to me to have a rock hall and not include hair metal

Hair metal should absolutely be included, and I would 100% argue for the induction of Mötley Crüe, Ratt, Poison, W.A.S.P. and Junkyard (a band that hasn't got a chance in hell of getting in, but who were really quite good).

Being really popular does seem like a possibly relevant criterion for a hall of fame tbf.

Also wtf Ratt?

the studio techniques that led to hysteria sounding as massive as it does (still) are HOF worthy on their own

Yeah, I had the thought that Mutt Lange probably deserves to be in there.

Meat Loaf/Jim Steinman together

Point being I might actually watch the ceremony - on first broadcast!! - this year on the strength of the nominees.
Also I have nothing against Def Leppard, I was just thinking of who on that list I had the least personal passion for. Plus I've checked now and Fleetwood got in back in 1998 so Stevie Nicks is almost certainly the one I'd swap out for Todd anyway