Velvet Underground & Nico(the album): Classic or not that Classic ?

"White Light/White Heat" is an absolute dud btw.

Have you ever considered that that might not be what's important to Geir?

"Feel? What is this 'feel'?"

I thought since the songs doesn't seem very harmonically interesting there might be some emotional attachment. (perhaps he's a bondage freak??)

Anyway, I haven't used the word classic yet on this thread, so if I may: CLASSIC CLASSIC CLASSIC!

In the context of the album, it is.

It is impossible for me to describe what I like about a song without naming the two most important elements of all music regardless of genre.

Geir = dud

Because you're using them as a crutch?

I always find this fascinating, when discussing art. People who really, truly believe that certain elements are "more important" than all others, that this is absolutely and universally true, and that everyone should accept it as common knowledge.

Why, Geir?

Prove that "melody and harmony" are the "two most important elements of all music regardless of genre."

Spencer and Jhn Drnle far-freaking out on VU-J&MC link, though I am surprised by non-representing-indies shockah! on alternate thread, spec. that Yo La Tengo has not surfaced yet on that VU/no VU thread.

Amateurist with visual coup, 10 points.

VU& Nico = total paradigm-fuckery, therefore classic, but not as album-o-tastic as the 3rd. Or the double live, which was my intro.

exactly.

exactly.

also, far-freaking out on VU-J&MC link. Is that sarcastic? I've always thought the link was well understood, I was just commenting on their and MBV's screech-teristics...

Classic. Obviously. Impervious to any and all debunking exercises.

WLWH can still surprise me when I listen and no matter how much I like the songwriting on the 3rd I somehow don't connect. Loaded on the other hand remains a source of constant delight. It took me longer to like than the others, but the melodies sunk deeper. Its the only album that isn't outdone by Lou and Cale solo stuff.

i.e. Sabotage/Live > WL / WH (tho the first thing i've done everytime i've moved is blast sister ray in my new room), and Growing Up In Public (or, okay if you wanna be conventional, Berlin) > s/t, and Songs For The Rainy Season > Live 1969, and Street Hassle > VU & Nico, and for that matter Ecstacy > Walk On The Wild Side: The Best of Lou Reed.

gotcha

what don't you like about it?

They are the most typical act. However, I do for instance have mixed feelings about The White Album. I also have mixed feelings about part of the recent New Accoustic Movement (considering I feel like there are some nice songs - which is the most important thing anyway, but it is generally too mellow and underproduced)

Not too mention Frank Zappa, who was sometimes musically great, sometimes funny and sometimes just downright awful and unlistenable.

Sterling, I'm listening to it now in an attempt to answer your question. I like the first three songs a lot, actually - sometimes four - and sometimes I think I might like the rest if I'd not had to sit through 20 minutes of it already. I'm not a person who can listen to too much "rock" without my attention wandering. The question for me I guess is How is this special in any capacity? Is there some context I'm missing only knowing what's offerred in the liner notes to the box set and the reissue? I've always had the feeling people like it because it's both a VU album and a pop album [draws ven diagram], for people who like the songwriting but not the noise - but I don't get the impression you're afraid of noise. I'm listening to "Head Held High" right now, and I just don't see what's so clever or interesting about it, or hear any unique melody. If I want "rock 'n roll" I'd listen to the first Elvis Costello album, or Presley, or for that matter Chuck Berry. I don't like Lou's voice when he goes into that fake bluesman howl, and definitely not doo-wop mode.

And in conclusion the cover art sucks.

Also partly its not just Velvets + Pop, but Velvets taking psychadelic/jam ideas about song structure with pop conventions as their building blocks, if that makes sense. e.g. The way the piano suspends the resolution in "Cool It Down" always surprises me.

There's nothing conventional about "Head Up High" to pick one, which is full of these moments of wild interplay between difft. bits -- its just a string of favorite moments for me with the tense bridge for example.

Maybe its also the most full-fledged expression of Lou's twisted R&B luv until the Sally Can't Dance/Coney Island Baby double whammy and there the bits were too seperated out -- "I Found A Reason" again with this sweet/desperate love Drifters affectation (Perfect Day pt. 1/2?) and again just listen to Morrison's guitar work.

Meanwhile lyrically the VU's urban collapse/carnival etc. is if anything more pronounced than ever.

Finally I have no idea how to talk about New Age, except maybe to recommend that you listen to the Live 1969 version and see if it helps to grab you. New Age is the song I start to sing when I drink and get sad. I shit you not.

White Light/White Heat: Vomit, except for "The Gift".

The Velvet Underground: Probably their best.

Loaded: I like "Sweet Jane." I like "Rock and Roll." I like "Oh Sweet Nuthin'!" The rest ssssuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkkssssssssss.

Sunday Morning
Femme Fatale
All Tomorrow's Parties
There She Goes Again
Candy Says
Pale Blue Eyes
Jesus
That's The Story Of My Life
After Hours
Who Loves The Sun
New Age
I Found a Reason

.. then it would have been a great classic album.

All that said, it, and the band, are a little overrated. I don't play it often (though I play it a lot more than any of their others). It does have dull moments. (And, for the record, I think "There She Goes Again" is awful.) They couldn't play, at least at this point, and this is not part of the charm. Even the feedback could have been done better.

WL/WH has a great overall sound but I don't think most of the songs are that great.

Geir, that's actually true of Metal Machine Music, which is partly why it does succeed on those terms.

L-L-L-Linus is dead???

And classic. How many other rock LPs will we be talking about/listening to after 35 years?

Wait, I thought you were a Strokes fan. ;-)

Please, please point me to the poll thread. I can't find it.

VU is the shit.

Weirdest thing about this band is their best stuff wasn't released until 1985.

I don't believe in God, but if there was one, this would be the thing. I also dug out my copy of the Velvet 1969 live thing you know what I mean. "Lisa Says" and "New Age".

You have got to have the Lou Reed love.

Yes, you have got to have the Lou Reed love, and I don't care about anyone who doesn't have it.

Got a Foggy Notion. Do it again.

Which poll? The albums one or *this album's tracks* poll, of which I don't think there was one.

Velvet Underground and Nico: "heroin" and "Venus in Furs" are classic, "European Son" is unlistenable, "I'm Waiting for the Man" is awesome, and Nico's vocals are just abysmal. Good.
White Light/White Heat: Vomit, except for "The Gift".

The Velvet Underground: Probably their best.

Loaded: I like "Sweet Jane." I like "Rock and Roll." I like "Oh Sweet Nuthin'!" The rest ssssuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkkssssssssss.

-- Evan (Evan), Sunday, April 27, 2003

was this mr snrub?

i ask because he's the only poster here who sounds like every single opinion he has was taken from mark prindle circa 1998.

VU& Nico = total paradigm-fuckery, therefore classic, but not as album-o-tastic as the 3rd. Or the double live, which was my intro.

-- Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones)

^^^^ digs the part where lou talks about buying drugs from a black dude

^^^^ wow you really got him there, brave warrior! A+++!

thanks, cap'n!

here bimble

Favourite Velvet Underground album (with extra facility)

Classic. Obviously. Impervious to any and all debunking exercises.
Especially the one from Ian Rankin on the "controversial" thread.

"Unlistenable" is one of those great words that, as soon as you read it, you know you can ignore everything the writer has to say.

was this mr snrub?

I believe so. Though Prindle actually liked those albums more than he did.

What sundar said up-thread was OTM. Lou could be a classic songwriter when he wanted. His best stuff from that era sounds like Brill Building melodies mated to lyrics by William Burroughs. "I'll Be Your Mirror" could have been sung by any girl group. It's that good.

You can't argue with it's CLASSIC status, but I could quite happily live the rest of my life without hearing the fucking thing ever again. Every indie party ever '85 - '95, and the classic "How to relax your 'alternative' friends" record over the same period. ("No, really, put on Phil collins or Dire Straits. Please!") In my heart, hate this the way the way most of you hate The Doors.

Absolutely no surprise at all to find from the Bockris bio that Reed had done none of the things described at the time he wrote the lyrics.

i thought he did suck on a ding dong

Only a non-metaphorical one.

Yeah really wtf? Anyone who thinks that guy has never sucked dick should listen to the first part of Take No Prisoners. Just saying.

I finally "got" what this album was all about. I had it since college and thought it was complete shit as far as being a proto punk landmark. At the time, I was in love with the New York Dolls first album.

But now since this past month, I've been listening to the songs on a semi regular basis. It's such a cool album. I must admit I was suckered partly by the dynamics between Lou Reed, John Cale, and Nico. Something about the assholery of Lou, the vapidness voice of Nico, and John's droning viola in the background is oddly appealing.

There are some nice songs on this one, but they got generally much better after John Cale left.

NO.

"Unlistenable" is one of those great words that, as soon as you read it, you know you can ignore everything the writer has to say.

― Noodle Vague, Monday, December 24, 2007 8:09 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

OTM

Many years before I knew this album, I read Paul Morley saying that this album had a kind of innocence about it. At the time, I found that somewhat hard to believe.

Now, I think he's right.

(xpost Geir geir geir geir geir ...)

What was it I said I found unlistenable recently.....

Oh yeah, Lucia Pamela's album.

Past the first couple tracks and "Dear Me" which is OK, I had an insane itch to turn it off..

Still.... The VU!

But I like John's droning viola, it adds to the supposed dreariness of their image/musical tone. I haven't given their latest albums a listen yet. I did listen to Nico's Chelsea Girl which is kind of "the other side of the same coin." I am confused on why Lou and John contributed to Nico's album when reportedly the band hated Nico's presence. Is that just embellished for publicity or was it fact? I know Lou and Nico had a brief affair and Nico said something Anti-semitic to Lou when she left the band.

Helping her with her solo album could be construed as helping her out the door, really.

And then bolting it afterwards

yep.

"I simply cannot make love to Jews anymore"

Although they did do that gig with her in France, 1971, marketed as a VU reunion...

I guess, but John Cale continued to work with her after she left. I haven't listened to her stuff yet either. I had an inkling of it when looking at her documentary Nico Icon. It didn't really drive me to want to listen to it like "Chelsea Girl."

It's about a million times better than "Chelsea Girl"

which?

"I simply cannot make love to Jews anymore"

Yeah i remember that statement. I would like to be a witness of their arguments back then.

which?

Next three after "Chelsea Girl"

I think the "Hate in 67" stuff was a little overstated. I think Jackson Browne said something about Lou and Sterling occasionally playing live on her solo gigs in NYC at the time.

Lou hates everybody so it's not that big a deal really

I thought the story was that Lou and Sterl offered to give her backing tapes for her to sing over.

I did have "Drama of Exile", and for some reason the Martin Hannett version of "All Tomorrows Parties"

I thought the story was that Lou and Sterl offered to give her backing tapes for her to sing over.

Well, yeah they did do that. But IIRC, what Browne said was that sometimes he'd accompany her so she wouldn't have to use the tapes, and that every once in while Lou and Sterling would come down and sit in.

Big of them

Well, yeah they did do that. But IIRC, what Browne said was that sometimes he'd accompany her so she wouldn't have to use the tapes, and that every once in while Lou and Sterling would come down and sit in

Ugh, well that is high and mighty of them. I hope they came and sat down more than her using the tapes.

I don't want to devolve in a discussion about sexism in rock and roll, and I know I need to listen to the other albums but Nico did provide something to the group. Her voice wasn't pretty but the music wasn't pretty so it worked out. I'm just a big defender of the "singer as interpreter" being as much of an aritst as "the singer-songwriter."

i think nico gave as good as she got, really. not like she was a naive flower child or something.

That's why I liked the album. It had both a male and female voice interpreting the songs, and both gave it equally in performance.

has everyone seen this? 45th anniversary version of the Velvets and Nico?

DISC ONE.

THE VELVET UNDERGROUND & NICO V6-5008 (stereo version)

Originally issued as Verve V6-5008, March 1967.

1. SUNDAY MORNING 2.54

2. I’M WAITING FOR THE MAN 4.37

3. FEMME FATALE 2.37

4. VENUS IN FURS 5.10

5. RUN RUN RUN 4.20

6. ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES 5.58

7. HEROIN 7.10

8. THERE SHE GOES AGAIN 2.38

9. I’LL BE YOUR MIRROR 2.12

10. THE BLACK ANGEL’S DEATH SONG 3.12

11. EUROPEAN SON 7.46

ALTERNATE VERSIONS:

12 . ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES (alternate single voice version) 5.58

13. EUROPEAN SON (alternate version) 9.06

14. HEROIN (alternate version) 6.15

15. ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES (alternate instrumental mix) 5.58

16. I’LL BE YOUR MIRROR (alternate mix) 2.16

DISC TWO.

THE VELVET UNDERGROUND & NICO V-5008 (mono version)

Originally issued as Verve V-5008, March 1967.

1. SUNDAY MORNING 2.55

2. I’M WAITING FOR THE MAN 4.46

3. FEMME FATALE 2.38

4. VENUS IN FURS 5.13

5. RUN RUN RUN 4.24

6. ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES 5.59

7. HEROIN 7.14

8. THERE SHE GOES AGAIN 2.41

9. I’LL BE YOUR MIRROR 2.14

10. THE BLACK ANGEL’S DEATH SONG 3.12

11. EUROPEAN SON 7.57

THE SINGLES:

12. ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES 2.49

13. I’LL BE YOUR MIRROR (alternate ending) 2.17

Mono single, issued as Verve VK-10427, July 1966.

14. SUNDAY MORNING (alternate mix) 2.56

15. FEMME FATALE 2.37

Mono single, Verve VK-10466, released December 1966.

DISC THREE.

NICO: CHELSEA GIRL

Originally issued as Verve V6-5032, October 1967.

1. THE FAIREST OF THE SEASONS 4.10

2. THESE DAYS 3.34

3. LITTLE SISTER 4.27

4. WINTER SONG 3.20

5. IT WAS A PLEASURE THEN 8.06

6. CHELSEA GIRLS 7.27

7. I’LL KEEP IT WITH MINE 3.21

8. SOMEWHERE THERE’S A FEATHER 2.20

9. WRAP YOUR TROUBLES IN DREAMS 5.10

10. EULOGY TO LENNY BRUCE 3.46

DISC FOUR / DISC TWO DELUXE EDITION.

SCEPTER STUDIOS SESSIONS:

Acetate cut on April 25, 1966

1. EUROPEAN SON (alternate version) 9.03 *

2. THE BLACK ANGEL'S DEATH SONG (alternate mix) 3.18 *

3. ALL TOMORROW'S PARTIES (alternate version) 5.57 *

4. I'LL BE YOUR MIRROR (alternate version) 2.11 **

5. HEROIN (alternate version) 6.17 *

6. FEMME FATALE 2.36 (alternate mix) **

7. VENUS IN FURS (alternate version) 4.39 **

8. WAITING FOR THE MAN (alternate version) 4.15 **

9. RUN RUN RUN 4.23 (alternate mix) **

* from tape / ** from acetate

THE FACTORY REHEARSALS:

January 1966 rehearsal, previously unreleased.

10. WALK ALONE 3.28

11. CRACKING UP / VENUS IN FURS 3.52

12. MISS JOANIE LEE 11.49

13. HEROIN 6.17

14. THERE SHE GOES AGAIN (with NICO) 2.09

15. THERE SHE GOES AGAIN 2.56

DISC FIVE.

LIVE AT VALLEYDALE BALLROOM, COLUMBUS, OHIO:

1. MELODY LAUGHTER 28.26

2. FEMME FATALE 2.37

3. VENUS IN FURS 4.45

4. THE BLACK ANGEL’S DEATH SONG 4.49

5. ALL TOMORROW’S PARTIES 5.03

(Lou Reed)

DISC SIX.

LIVE AT VALLEYDALE BALLROOM, COLUMBUS, OHIO:

1. WAITING FOR THE MAN 4.50

2. HEROIN 6.42

3. RUN RUN RUN 8.43

4. THE NOTHING SONG 27.56

some talk over here: VU and Nico - remastered again?

this is in the write-up for wl/wh in spin's new 100 alternative albums of the 60s list

Let the record show that The Velvet Underground & Nico was the best Velvet Underground record of the 1990s. The entire decade was mapped out there. It opens with a faux-naïve avant-pop breakthrough ("Sunday Morning") as its "Smells Like Teen Spirit"; and closes with a repetition-into-soup hammer party ("European Son") as its "Rockafeller Skank." The guitar-based tunelessness born on that album was a badge of honor if you were Calvin, or a weapon if you were Thurston, or a plaything if you were Kurdt. And dopesick, leather-licking, plain-brown-wrapper lyrics were the perfect transgression for a decade that gave us Marilyn Manson, The Chronic, and Butt Trumpet.

worst endorsement for this album ... ever. i think?

[i'm liking that list overall though -- http://www.spin.com/articles/best-100-albums-1960s-sixties-alternative-list

worst endorsement for this album ... ever. i think?
Is it written by that kid who took over the Village Voice?

no, it's whiney! i actually sort of appreciate him trying to write something different about this record, but ... wtf?

Hadn't known the Velvets were in Whiney's wheelhouse.

haha, well, he's definitely coming at them from a unique perspective here...

actually i thought that was sort of the conventional wisdom -- that this album sort of defined the entire alternative diaspora.

huge lol someone wrote that in 2013 or 20anything, assumed it was something from at some point in the 90s when giving a fuck about the 90s would've made some sense. weird they're struggling to reach that youth demo.

(xp)
True but this idea was merely a vague will-o'-the-wisp until Whiney fleshed it out.

its really mainly the "Rockafeller Skank" reference that baffles me. and lol butt trumpet. that band is really having its moment in the sun thanks to spin. can a reunion be far off?

[i'm liking that list overall though -- http://www.spin.com/articles/best-100-albums-1960s-sixties-alternative-list

No Bill Dixon, no credibility.

well they've got conquistador on there, so he's almost included. i mean, i could quibble with the "alternative" nature of plenty of this, but life is too short. some cool records! and plenty i haven't heard.

Ha, it's Unit Structures actually -- I was on the lookout for Conquistador. But yeah, the bottom half of the list is a fair amount of stuff I'd never heard of.

huge lol someone wrote that in 2013 or 20anything, assumed it was something from at some point in the 90s when giving a fuck about the 90s would've made some sense. weird they're struggling to reach that youth demo.

― balls, Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:41 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thing is its really a setup to the second bit which explains why white light is the album that rules the 00s-10s, anticipating the rise of noisy dance-rock skronk sounds, etc. I think the argument doesn't really hold water fully, but its provocative and entertaining.

the real entry on vu + nico is kogan talking about the lyrical precision in waiting for the man.

rock still hasn't caught up to the guitar solo on WL/WH.

erm, heard her call my name that is.

lol at one of the two comments on the front page:

Natalie 56 minutes ago

Two words: JEFFERSON AIRPLANE

thing is its really a setup to the second bit which explains why white light is the album that rules the 00s-10s
So does this mean we are now in the Third Album/"Candy Says" decade?

Whiney Says

God it's absolutely maudlin outside

erm, heard her call my name that is.

And that never caught up to the solo on "Anyway Anyhow Anywhere."

If Robert Quine were still with us and, even more unlikely, was an ilx poster, he would probably say that neither had caught up to a Link Wray record or something like that.

True. And none have yet caught up with this (posted by Dr. X O'Skeleton in the Bo Diddley thread):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEfz9VfFOKQ

Not everyone bought a Velvet Underground album, but everyone who did has a different opinion about what hasn't been caught up with yet.

--Bob Marley

Booker T=The Gift=Incubation

only 50 ppl bought a butt trumpet CD but every person that did went out and stuck a trumpet in their butt

--kurt vonnegutt

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-29/velvet-underground-settles-warhol-suit-over-banana-design.html

phew.

this album: it used to be my least favorite velvets album (beside squeeze, which doesn't count) but then about two years ago something happened and now it is my favorite velvet underground album. i wonder if there is anything new to say about it. i like bands where there are two main vocalists with very distinct styles who alternate on who sings lead. this is less common than it should be... i wish keith richards sung lead more often just to mix things up.

my favorite beatles song is "a day in the life" mostly because john's part and paul's parts are so different.

They could work it out for sure...

Such a mediocre album compared to MMM ana Lulu

good interview w/ norman dolph (producer of most of the banana album): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov13/articles/classic-tracks-1113.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrsDi3f-Dpw

wow, the space where Scepter Studios where most of VU & Nico was recorded is currently vacant and up for rent. Would be a fun place for a nightclub, residence, or even an office....

also never knew the ground floor directly below Scepter later became Studio 54