Indie acts doing covers of pop/rap/RnB songs: Classic or Dud?

never did hear Travis' Britney cover

but Elbow's cover of 'Independent Woman' was very funny

Re:Covered has to take the blame for this, though, instead of providing us with something we actually want to hear, it's a case of "Hey, look at this!". I mean, it rarely works the other way round, Mis-Teeq don't do Wedding Present covers, do they?

Fountains of Wayne's "Baby One More Time" is better than the original, though. FACT.

But if they did, they'd do them brilliantly... I can hear them covering My Favourite Dress - Alesha chatting about Armani, Gucci and Prada - in my head now

Anyway, who cares about the intent or the "sincerity" of these? The pleasures in this sub-genre are few, and probably all of the good ones are good despite themselves.

Also, uh, mashups.

The question of sincerity comes in in that it ends the performances an air of smarminess, which really isn't appealing in these cases. Dom posted while I was posted--quite honestly, I don't think most of the covers in question were done well. Admittedly I didn't hear Beck's one that I singled out, but Beck makes me want to break things.

Dude, this is a whole new thread, what pop/rap acts should cover what indie songs. That could turn particularly ridiculous.

But Alex (and maybe because it's "80s" you forgive it), on some other thread once you said you liked Lords of the New Church's Madonna cover! (Which to me just oozes smarm and grossness and sounded completely OBVIOUS even back then.)

The thing is, it's really difficult to make fun of something that is so much better than you, and that's what I think these acts are doing. The songs in question are so superior to the recent singles by these artists that it just isn't even funny.

Yeah, but my point is that such stunts are NOW DATED! I loved the Lords' cover, but y'know.....that was eons ago. I also liked the Wedding Present's cover of Tom Jones' "It's Not Unusual," but also....ancient!

pop, but i just googled her and her website is called 'sophie b hawkins underground' so i dunno! but yeah, 'damn i wish i was yr lover' was a hit, and a great song

Also, I'm not so sure that a lot of the great early Stones' covers of r&b and blues tracks are completely smarm-free. Some of them seem exaggerated almost to the point of parody--"Down Home Girl," especially. But for whatever reasons, most of them still work.

Straight to the point - I'm with you Ally!

Just as a side issue, great indie covers that I love are Dinosaur Jr's Cover of The Cure's Just Like Heaven and Snuff's version of I Think We're Alone Now. Put them against Travis, Coldplay, Beck... there's no comparison - and before anyone says it, I know both were ironic and that Snuff were pretty dreadful, but they were an amazing covers band...

Mind you, Johnny Cash covering "Hurt" or Depeche Mode or whatever pop that Rick Rubin can convince him to play is some interesting, but if someone covers Nelly, then they must be pandering.

Never mind that The Big Boys played Kool in the Gang, Urge Overkill did a Hot Chocolate cover, fIREHOSE covered Public Enemy, and Sonic Youth even did an entire record as an oddball tribute to Madonna, those must just be pandering.

It is not like the pop artists need credibility to sell records when they can just take off more clothes or do a soda ad or shoot someone.

It is only a song.

No, I definitely agree, it's just that the examples in question are not examples of such a phenomenon. The Jolene cover is good, I reckon.

that was pandering smarm which sonic youth are very good at, even tho I like 'em...

Covering a pop song 'ironically' (if/when that's whats happening) is a cop-out, a safe way of admitting to yourself and your fans that the song has had an impact on you but then neutering that impact instead of exploring it. Travis doing BOMT is saying "Hey beneath the pop veneer is a proper song" but their version done Travis-style then HAS to be leaden because otherwise it'd risk sounding better than Travis own songs, and part of the point is (maybe?) to prove that Travis' craftsmanship is better than Max Martin's.

It ties in with the question on that huge long thread Simon Reynolds' site linked to, about 'indie' not wanting to draw on 'black' music anymore. Cos the real question behind both of these is - how do you operate in a 50-year tradition where the music you make is very unlikely to be as good (in YOUR opinion, the audience likes it just fine) as the music you like? (Sampling is one answer) Converting pop songs into second-rate B sides is a way of positioning yourself on the heirarchy - if these pop songs were REALLY any good they'd shine through our versioning, right?

How much does our getting annoyed with covers of pop depend on our experiencing the originals as pop? If Coldplay covered the Crystals I wouldn't give half as much a fuck as if they covered B*Witched.

At the risk of jumping to the other side, I have to say I really agree with this. It reminds me a little of working in a record store in the late '80s and being disgusted when some "punks" (I think that's what they were called back then) came in the store and started mockingly dancing around to the Michael Jackson we were playing in the store. But (later on) I considered the possibility that they were actually tapping into something that maybe they subconsciously really ENJOYED but would never admit to. Well, it was a theory, sort of.

Haha, that's not risking jumping, that is jumping! Anyway yr theory is OTM. There's no such thing as liking things ironically, I reckon. It's just a safe way to like things without getting made fun of by your friends.

At best it's pandering. Though I'm sure there are some worthy exceptions.

There is an ironic way to say you like things though. Another subject, but you only need to look at the way dancehall has become "fashionable" in trendy, ironic London circles - this really ticks me off as I genuinely love it and always have done... these tossers essentially denegrating it is little short of infuriating

I actually think this is a core point. The whole 'snarf, ha ha, look at us' attitude is indeed crap, but essentially there's a weird no win scenario posited in all this:

INDIE PERSON: "I like this, that and the other popwise."
OTHER PERSON: "You're only doing that to follow trends/seem hip/to make fun of it."
INDIE PERSON: "No I'm not! Jeez! Here." *plays version of song*
OTHER PERSON: "That was shit and why did you bother?"
INDIE PERSON: "Fine, fuck you."

But you could expand this out if you like. Personally I think it's illustrative not of the power of songs or performers or whatever but ARRANGEMENTS. Which may seem strange, but consider -- I think there's a lot of (justifiable) fear and loathing over the idea of reducing a song down to a guitar jangle, ripping out whatever it is sonically that really captivates. Lingering fears of rockism, if you like, the whole 'argh, it's only validated because you can do a folk singalong to it? that attitude is crap!' And who can blame people for feeling that way?

Britney is cynical and transient AND hooky and thrilling.

See, it's funny you say that because I'm still amazed so many people have covered "Baby One More Time" when I think it's incredibly unmemorable and dull. "Oops I Did It Again" is the song that works, and as Kate St. Claire said once, it's all because of the bassline. And interestingly Fuck have in fact covered it.

As for Tha Irony: Beck is a big, big fan of contemporary R&B, I'd say it's pretty silly to just assume his "Cry Me A River" is ironic, especially considering he's been in such a boringly earnest mode lately, *and* "Cry Me A River" fits in with the songs on Sea Change thematically. Flaming Lips and Fran Healy of Travis have both been very public about their genuine admiration of "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" and "Baby One More Time". So that's that settled then (unless they have IRONY GUILT!)

Apart from that I can't comment because I've never heard any of these versions, except Travis' Britney cover which I remember quite liking at the time (mainly because I've never liked Britney's voice much.)

Yeah, I was about to say that whole assertion seemed strange. Too bad the song itself bites, but that's another matter. ;-)

POPISTS!

There should be something just interesting about the practice -- cross-genre covers are usually great, an old thing stylized in a new way -- but it seems as if there are just too many tensions and conflicts running between indie mores and pop mores for the acts to be able to do it without stepping, intentionally or not, right on some sort of mine. Unfortunately dud. The acts need to get it out of their systems in their teenage pop-punk band days, if at all possible. And if they're going to try it after that, I for one would like to see them really try it, awful and embarrassing as that would be in most cases.

Is Tico Tico who I think it is?

Nabisco - yes, almost certainly! There's a sensible reason for the identity-switch though.

In the insistent-on-pigeonholing media-driven musical world in which we live. I could have used the loathesome word "alternative" instead so count yourself lucky.

Apparently, Beck compared the opening hook to "Cry Me A River" to operatic horror, Phantom Of The Opera-style music. I take this as pisstaking.

Not gonna read this whole thread (look -- indie people are allowed to use songs by black artists just like the stones and zep and dylan amd elvis did; they don't have to be "respectful", they just have to not suck, which not-sucking is of course rare -- "irony" is nothing at all new, and nothing that indie-rockers invented, and nothing bad in and of itself, and nothing black artists for crissakes don't partake in across and amidst the racial spectrum as well). And I noticed that somebody mentioned "Hollywood Swinging" by the Big Boys. But I just wanted to throw Robert Wyatt's version of Chic's "At Last I Am Free" and James Chance's version of "Don't STop Till You GEt Enough," both of which predated either Age of Chance OR the Big Boys, in there. Ok.

I REALLY seriously doubt Beck's cover of Justin is mean spirited at all. Of any "alternative" act I've seen interviewed, he seems to be the one that generally likes mainstream acts the most.

I'd enjoy hearing his too, because the problem with Justin has always been him shoving his dire voice over great beats.

Grace Jones did a pretty good version of She's Lost Control.

On an earlier edition of Re:Covered, Liberty X covered High And Dry. They were all sat on stools and were all "Oooh, we're well cred, us - IN YOUR FACE MYLEENE - man, we so skill." It was a bit irritating.

Of course, the big question is 'what makes a good cover', and if you think - as I do - that making the song sound completely different is part of the point of modern cover versions (not going into that trend of 1950s/60s covers which were designed to sound as much like the original as possible so people would buy them thinking they were the original), it's impossible to say that all rock covers of pop songs are dud. Because, you know, at least they're taking the song out of context, and trying something new with it. Even if they are twats who can't like non-credible songs without the disclaimer of irony.

Though I like skatepunk covers* because they've become their own little genre, it's accepted practise so the gimmick factor has faded. Whereas indie-band-covers-pop songs is in that infuriating phase between genuine novelty and time-honoured custom.

*not to listen to, in truth.

Didn't he also get his swarthy loverman spooge all over NIN's "Closer"?

If only for

Hit Me Baby One More Time covered by Gary Jules

OH MY GOD!

What???

A disappointing first port of call. Perhaps it doesn't exist. But maybe, just maybe, if we believe hard enough, it will exist...

One of the worst worst cover is Speedway's Genie In a bottle. Speedway are the most unnecessary band ever?

There are certain such covers that can work. Personally, I think it comes down to whether there's real affection for the song. And yes, I think you can hear the difference.

Agreed, it is ace. Also see The Blankket's cover of 'Hey Ya!' which I still haven't hyped enough.

-- stevem"

Yes, yes it was.

B-but "Baby One More Time" is all about the arrangement....and the melody....and the beat....and the production....and the performance. Oh fuck it, it was perfect and Travis shouldn't have gone near it with their shit stick.

My point: when a country voice sings gangsta-rap lyrics, you realize that the two worlds and attitudes aren't too far apart. That's just truth, without irony. By the way, mega-pop artists should start cherrypicking through the crates of great punk compositions. Just imagine:

Britney Spears covering Bad Brain's "i against i".
Usher singing "Swallow My Pride" by the Ramones.
Gwen Stefani doing "Straight to Hell" by The Clash.

Alright. I'm dreaming again.

The Gourds.

Britney Spears covering Bad Brain's "i against i".

Even after her yawnsome take on "Satisfaction"?

What a twist!

bonnie prince billy's live vers. of "ignition" by r. kelly was pretty great.

had NPR on while taking a shower the other week and this came on. as he started to introduce it i was like "is he really going to?" which turned into "dude, no, i know this is coming from a genuine place but you can still turn back..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ATOTj2xVM

it's definitely worse with video.

this is prob about as bad as pop culture gets

holy shit

omg

The video you posted is private, so I can't see it... What is it?

yeah i can't see it either..

Make that three of us.

it's Chris Thile covering Kendrick Lamar's "Alright" on mandolin, substituting "brother" for the n-word. it is the most cringeworthy thing imaginable.

oh god I actually like Thile / Punch Brothers in general but there's no way in hell I'm listening to that

dang, it was public yesterday. maybe they read ilx. here's audio.

not any more, this cover-up goes deeper than we thought

Not listening to this, let alone watching it.

haha. how about this? http://prairiehome.publicradio.org/listen/?date=2016/02/06&identifier=apm_audio:/phc/segments/2016/02/06/phc_segment_12_20160206_128.mp3

Had press tix and saw Chris Thile host and play his Live from Here radio show yesterday. He named off folks having birthdays this week and covered their songs with a big band . Sarah Jarosz sang & he played mandolin on Labelle “ Lady Marmalade,” and Dylan “Twist of Fate.” They also did Miles Davis “So What.” Non-birthday cover of Vampire Weekend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHNeDwp77g

Dud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I0zbAQbl2o

Dethroned Halloween, Alaska's "I Can't Live Without My Radio" for favorite track in this theme.

The "Jesus, take the wheel" line is such a mournful hook that's an aside in the original Thundercat track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8TdgBWEOP8