Simple Minds, classic or dud?

didn't they get sampled by raven maize a few years back. sorry thats all.

I can't argue with that...at all.

Even in the good old days, though, quality control wasn't really their thing, and I'm tempted to say they were a singles band: "I Travel," "Love Song," "The American" -- those first few where they're flirting with the New Romantic movement are so great, and hold up much better than most of the club-rock of that era. And "Themes From Great Cities" should be recognized as one of the great instrumental rock tracks of the '80s (I actually used it in the early '90s for some public access cable show, and after we screened it ten different people asked me, "What was that amazing music?")

After that... well, I think they were always going to do whatever they had to do to make it big, and if that meant hopping on the Celtic Rock bandwagon along with U2 and Big Country, then so be it. So my expiration date is a little earlier than yours, though again the singles off New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain were pretty fine. I still get that descending keyboard riff from "Up On The Catwalk" stuck in my head at odd times, and "Waterfront" and "Someone Somewhere in Summertime" make artsy pomposity seem so damn soulful.

But after that, toss it all: I saw them on the Once Upon A Time tour in '85 or whenever, and they were pretty bad. Shriekback opened, and wiped the floor with 'em. If they haven't called it a day yet -- and Jim Kerr doesn't seem the type to stop flogging that horse -- I say we punish him with dudness until he relents, or at least commisions a decent Best Of.

the stuff pre-"don't you" is somewhat hit-or-miss, but mostly pretty solid and just about every record from that time has at least something to recommend it. real to reel cacaphony, empires and dance, and new gold dream had an interesting roxy music-meets-kraftwerk sound to it. and something like "theme for great cities" was the greatest kraftwerk song that ralf und florian never made. things started getting a little bombastic around sparkle in the rain, though it's still quite good (a bit like what echo & the bunnymen would've sounded like if ian mccullough wasn't so whiny).

I just tried to order a couple of the re-issues online and the bastards sent me the old versions, so my reacquisition of their back catalog is on hold until I get that sorted out.

I have Sons and Fascination here on vinyl however, and I love it. It somehow complements American architecture perfectly, it's such a modernist building of an LP. A huge empty sound that fills up all that concrete and nothingness. I'm continuously surprised that freeway interchanges don't sprout from the ground whenever I play "Themes for Great Cities."

Anyway, I like the Breakfast Club theme, but agree it was their downfall. I'd try and make the case for Once Upon a Time though... I don't like the album so much, but I love the double live release that has many songs from it.

Also search "Hunter and the Hunted" from New Gold Dream.

I recently played 'I Travel' for the first time in about 10 yrs and was astonished by how bloody thunderously good it is.

Oh and I really love 'Don't You Forget About Me' - even though Kerr's hooting is pretty silly.

That is all.

R2RC would probably still make it as one of my 25 favourite albums - jagged and carnivalesque with that last-gasp-of-the-70's electrourban concrete-subway harshness & alienation scattered through it

E&D has a looming thunderous quality and depth of sound which anticipates the best that 80's production was to offer (eg Fear Of Gods sounds like prototype-Propaganda to me)

S&F/SFC was like listening to big-idea architecture
(+ great as accompaniment to overnight motorway drive - nr-empty urban stretch of M6 level with Manchester/Liverpool at 4am while 'theme for great cities' or 'sound in 70 cities' blasts out = wonderful)

their swelling up into tinselled plum puddings starts on some of NGD
(albeit glorious title track uses those tendencies in a way that works)

the rest should probably have been silence

Dr. C is OTM as always. I remember the po(m)p and drama of New Gold Dream came as a pleasant surprise at the time but their subsequent descent into U2-style bombast and vacuity was sadly rapid.

(I could find an analogy in history yesterday when my friend asked me this question: "Is you going on about early Simple Minds the same as Jode going on about early Whitney Houston?" (!!!) (or should that be (??)).

Once Upon a Time - a huge letdown. Joined the ranks of OMD.

No.

Ned has summed it up pretty well. I used to like "Don't you forget about me" when I was a kid, but now it seems silly and I can't help but associate it in my mind with some horrible 80s yuppie aesthetic.

Sparkle in the rain is execrable apart from Waterfront which is one of the records from that period which tried to take on U2's bombast and actually suceeded.

Aren't they back to doing some trancey electro stuff now?

I totally disagree with Ned, "Don't You Forget About Me," while totally cheesy, is the only Simple Minds song I'd care to hear again (ok, MAYBE "Alive And Kicking" if I get to dance around Bono-style to it).

See, this is the problem, which you must overcome. ;-)

I'll defend Real Life somewhat - couple of the songs on there are OK and are mostly salvaged by Mel Gaynor's incredible drumming (he's #1 on my unheralded drummer list)

* This may not be true, but I can't prove that it's untrue either.

Definitely one of the best in my book, though choosing between it and Empires and Dance is nearly impossible.

What in tarnation?

TS: Miccio's Bono-dancing or Paul Stanley's foxy-dancing!

Andy and Ned have summed it up quite well. Most of the ideas are still present - disco punk (albeit more "30 Frames A Second" than "I Travel", crazy synths, sound collage, weird lyrics - but whereas on Empires & Dance the band focus that down to a relatively consistent thematic approach, Reel To Real is more all over the place. On the one hand, there's more "proper" punkish songs like "Citizen", "Changeling" and "Calling Your Name" (all of which put me in mind of a funkier, glammier Joy Division), and on the other there's quite a few weird but really engaging instrumentals and just totally fucked-up stuff like "Naked Eye" and "Carnival", both of which sound like the backing music for a circus organised by violently pathological schizophrenics. Also Kerr sounds like he's flipping out the entire time, whereas on E&D he sounds much more abstracted/distant.

In many ways I like the "idea" of Empires & Dance a bit more - the collision of dub, disco and punk, basically - but Reel To Real Cacophony has more killer cuts eg. the wonderful "Premonition". I love some of the really outthere stuff on E&D like "This Fear of Gods" but I'm always vaguely disappointed that there aren't more uptempo numbers like "I Travel".

Listening to the old albums this week has been a great but disorienting experience: as a kid, I always blamed SM's downfall on Jim Kerr and his pseudo-evangelical sub-Bono turn, but what's struck me is that even in the good days he was *always* a ham -- maybe more cryptic and less puffed-up, but the Euro affectations on E&D ("hey waiter, I'm first class") now seem like they're cut from the same cloth.

Which leads me to conclude that what really changed was the *music* -- and for some reason, that had never occurred to me before. Maybe because they were often so trance-y and grandiose on the good stuff, it was easy to miss the tight propulsiveness behind it... whereas "Alive and Kicking" is just shapeless, there's no rhythmic backbone holding it together at all. I seem to recall that the bass player defected to Propaganda's touring band between Sparkle and Once Upon A Time, which in retrospect makes a lot of sense (on both sides of the equation -- Propaganda had a lot of the same grandeur, but always with an eye on the dancefloor).

Is that the Kibble Palace in on the back of the sleeve to Celebration?

They could perhaps win the prize for quickest dive from heroes to arse in rock. Street Fighting Years is terrible.

I watched them for a bit at Glastonbury in '95 and it was quite funny; Jim Kerr was leaping around as if he was in front of an audience of 50,000 adoring fans, and in fact there were about 500 bored crusties.

1. Life in a Day (Burchill/Kerr) - 4:06
2. Chelsea Girl (Burchill/Kerr) - 4:34
3. Premonition (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:29
4. Factory (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:15
5. Calling Your Name (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:07
6. I Travel (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:02
7. Changeling (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:13
8. Celebrate (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 5:10
9. Thirty Frames a Second (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 6:54
10. Kaleidoscope (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:17

(Though I love both "Changeling" and "30 Frames..")

You're right, however. The earlier records are stranger, and appealingly so.

Wait that reminds me I must propose to Dan. Oh wait there's a problem there...

I'd probably have more posts than you if it weren't for Tim.

Tracer your euphamisms flow so naturally.

I know that! HMPH. I'll spare my jokes on other people!

(Baby still coming along okay?)

I cannae stand anything post-NGD. Altho, Futurama used "Dont you forget about me" to great (and sniffly) effect on one episode.

I loved New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain but I remember seeing a Simple Minds concert in 84 and thinking Jim K was the corniest audience-pumper this side of Bono. "GIVE ME YOUR HONDS!"

What a shame he took that walk with Bono on the beach and decided to become U3.

Is their cover of "Sign 'O' The Times" the worst cover version ever?

OTM

did Kerr actually sing 'now he's doin' horse, it's June'? i can't remember

I saw them in 84 too and it's funny how quickly they ditched all their old material in pursuit of that stadium-appropriate sound. The whole set was Sparkle In The Rain/New Gold Dream stuff apart from 'The American' which I suppose was the one really bombastic song from the older albums.

That's on the Celebration compilation but where did they cull that song from? I've never heard it. Is it some lost b-side, and did they put it on the first Themes compilation?

I've never weighed on this thread, to my amazement. Classic up until New Gold Dream. I love how in "Twist/Run/Repulsion" the French girl's reciting an excerpt of Nevsky Prospect by Gogol.

The story is about a man who sees a beautiful girl everyday on the Nevsky Prospect in St. Petersburg and falls in love with her little by little. One day, she lets him follow her (this is detailed in the text quoted in "Twist/Run/Repulsion") up to her flat and he discovers that she's a prostitute. The character becomes dangerously depressed after knowing the truth about the girl he loves and dies at the end of the text.

TWIST is about this vertigo of love, when you feel you are falling in love, you feel a bit drunk, and you're leaving earth... RUN when you rush through the girl you love, when you've dare to talk to this girl who paralyzes you... REPULSION is the disappointment. She was "his innocent, his special one" and she's just a whore. She belongs to all the men who pass...

The excerpt quoted in the song is this (but I think this excerpt continues on for where it ends in "Twist/Run/Repulsion"):
Mais était-il sûr d'être bien éveillé? Se pouvait-il que celle pour un céleste regard de qui il était prêt à donner sa vie, celle qu'il tenait déjà pour une ineffable bénédiction d'avoir pu suivre jusqu'à sa demeure, se pouvait-il qu'elle fût si bienveillante et attentionnée pour lui? Il gravit à grands pas l'escalier. Ses pensées n'étaient plus de la terre; il n'était point enflammé de l'ardeur d'une passion terrestre, non, il était à cet instant pur et exempt de vice comme l'adolescent virginal qui ne respire encore que vague besoin spirituel d'aimer. Et cela même qui, dans un homme corrompu, aurait éveillé d'immodestes pensées, ne faisait au contraire que purifier les siennes. Cette confiance que lui témoignait une belle et faible créature, cette confiance lui imposait le devoir d'une rigueur chevaleresque, le devoir d'exécuter servilement tous les ordres qu'elle lui donnerait. Il souhaitait seulement que ces ordres fussent les plus difficiles, les plus impossibles à exécuter, afin de pouvoir vouer davantage de ses forces à en surmonter la difficulté. il ne se doutait pas que quelque secrète et grave circonstance eût obligé l'inconnue à se fier à lui; qu'on allait sûrement exiger de lui d'exceptionnels services, et il sentait déjà en lui la force et la résolution de tout accomplir. L'escalier montait en spirale, et ses textes se pressaient dans le même tournoiement. "Avancez prudemment!" fit une voix dont le son était celui d'une harpe et qui fit encore vibrer tous ses nerfs. Dans l'obscurité du dernier étage l'inconnue frappa à une porte, celle-ci s'ouvrit et ils entrèrent ensemble. Une femme d'aspect assez agréable les accueillit une chandelle à la main, mais elle regarda Piskariov d'un air si singulier et si effronté qu'il baissa malgré lui les yeux. Ils pénétrèrent dans la pièce. Trois figures féminines, chacune dans son coin, se présentèrent à ses regards. L'une interrogeait les cartes; une autre, assise au piano, jouait avec deux doigts le pitoyable simulacre d'une ancienne polonaise; la troisième, devant un miroir, peignait ses longs cheveux et ne songeait pas un instant à interrompre sa toilette à l'arrivée d'un inconnu. On ne sait quel déplaisant désordre, tel qu'on ne peut le trouver que dans le logement négligé d'un célibataire, régnait de toutes parts. Les meubles, d'assez bonne apparence, étaient couverts de poussière; l'araignée avait garni de sa toile les moulures du lambris; à la porte entrebaillée d'une autre pièce brillait une botte avec son éperon et se devinaient les parements rouges d'un uniforme; une forte voix d'homme et un rire féminin se faisaient entendre sans la moindre contrainte.
Dieu, où s'était-il fourvoyé! Il se refusa tout d'abord à y croire et commença à considérer plus attentivement les objets qui emplissaient la pièce; mais les murs nus et les fenêtres sans rideaux ne révélaient point la présence d'une maîtresse de maison soigneuse; les visages flétris de ces pitoyables créatures dont l'une vint s'asseoir presque sous son nez et l'examiner aussi tranquillement qu'une tâche sur un vêtement, tout cela ne lui laissa point douter qu'il venait d'entrer dans le repaire infâme où élit domicile la triste débauche qu'enfantent la civilisation de clinquant et d'effroyable entassement humain de la capitale. Ce repaire où l'homme, en sacrilège, a etouffé et voué à la risée tout ce qu'il y a de pur et de sain pour faire l'ornement de la vie, où la femme, cette beauté du monde, ce couronnement de la création, s'est métamorphosée en un être étrange et ambigu, où elle a dépouillé avec la pureté de l'âme toute féminité et assumé les allures et les impudences du mâle, et cessé d'être cette fragile créature si belle et si différente de nous. Piskariov la considérait des pieds à la tête, plein de stupeur, comme s'il avait voulu s'assurer encore que c'était bien celle qui l'vait ensorcelé et entraîné dans son sillage sur la Perspective Nevski. Mais elle était devant lui toujours aussi belle; sa cheveulure avait bien la même splendeur, ses yeux toujours le même éclat céleste. Elle était toute jeune, elle n'avait guère que dix-sept ans; il était visible que l'immonde débauche ne l'avait saisie que depuis peu et n'avait pas encore flétri ses joues, qui étaient fraîches et légèrement nuancées d'un délicat incarnat... Elle était belle.

When I saw them in '86 they added "Love Song" to the set and cranked up the wah-motorik factor in it but it was too little too late

Anyway so I went home and played the real "Changeling" and realised that it sounds a lot like Tiefschwarz! "Thirty Frames A Second" too, though to a lesser extent.

To be more specific about "Changeling", it sounds like what the Tiefschwarz remix of The Rapture's "Sister Saviour" should have been (I should cross-reference this post to an electro-house thread so that Ronan would have to track it down). I'd love to hear a DJ play it in a set.

But even in the midst of all this, my favourite album remains

http://www.earthwaverecords.com/Pictures/AlbumImg/S/A0042107.jpg

Every few years I simply must hear "East At Easter", or "Waterfront" or "C Moon Cry Like A Baby" (that one has especially been vexing my brain over the last few weeks from time to time for no apparent reason - also remember Kirsty MacColl sang on it). And yes the first song I heard from that album was "Up On The Catwalk" and that was when I was basically a musical virgin because that song was on one of the first tapes I ever made off of college radio - the first time I realized that the likes of Echo & The Bunnymen and The Smiths even existed. Some people don't like the production on Sparkle In The Rain, but it never bothered me. Remember: Kirsty MacColl was married to him and he produced U2's "War": Steve Lillywhite.

Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw a connection with "Sister Saviour" and "Changeling"...in fact, I'd even venture to say the production for Echoes owes a ton to Real to Real Cacophony.

Up on the wall
Going up on the wall
Up on the wall
Naked Eye Naked Eye
What do you see
And what's there to learn
Reading your books
Third diagram
Someone's in the room down below
Someone someone
Someone below
Insects
Cherries
To the cherries
On the wall
Spider

If there is one Simple Minds album where they ditched all of their New Romantics roots and tried to become U3, then "Sparkle In The Rain" is it. After that they would at least gradually use synths to a somewhat larger extent again.

I realized in the past few days that New Gold Dream is probably one of the albums I've had the longest and still listen to regualarly. I recently got the DVD audio thing and it's great. It's got different mixes of some tracks, which makes it all the more enjoyable.

I'm not sure they had New Romantic roots. It all seemed a bit more Punk/Genesis/Teutonic to me up until New Gold Dream, which sounds unlike any other New Romantic band. I suppose they did stick a bit of slap on, though, so that might count.

Oh man TELL US MORE (please).

Years later, i finally got E&D and it seemed a bit dull to me, though i like the intensity of the synth textures. As though the album lacks the something-different-next charm and pace of S&F. I only got R2R a year ago and i think it's extraordinary. I'd hoped to save E&D til later in life (ie now) and have some new discoveries waiting and that didn't quite happen, so it was nice to go further back and find R2R, though i love the brooding trance-ish NGD too.

I have a friend who's equally sentimental about S&F/SFC. We didn't seem to have much in common until we "bonded" over our shared love of that lp. It seems there are others fond of this stuff; a nice thread.

I sort of feel like these albums are a bit underrated in terms of the UK post-punk canon, but that may simply be because I love them so much.

There was this comp that came out quite a few years back:

http://simpleminds.com/mediaLibrary/images/english/240.jpg

1. 18-18
2. Tonight
3. Little Bitch
4. Pablo Picasso
5. Subway Sex
6. Lies
7. Wasteland
8. Act Of Love
9. European Son
10. Cocteau Twins
11. Chelsea Girl
12. Did You Ever?
13. Pleasantly Disturbed

Mr. Snrub -- uh, everything?

'Scuse me while I play "I Travel".

Ahem.

They had a song called "Cocteau Twins" ????!?!??

Thus, indeed, where said band got its name.

Yes, isn't it the coolest thing? I read about that track for years and years before I ever heard it. I think everyone should hear that.

You know, I STILL haven't got into Reel To Reel Cacophony, yet. That's the mystery one, still. I used to have it on tape. Guess it didn't make much of an impression. Yeah, up through Once Upon A Time (which I really don't have a feeling about either way) they were the bee's knees and the only thing wrong with Don't You Forget About Me is it's been played too many times. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the band were really reluctant about doing that one. Kerr doubted it at first, etc.

Themes for Great Cities [Stiff, 1982]
Dance sources assure me that I heard all or most of this "Definitive Collection 79-81" in clubs during the years indicated, and it must be, since even today it makes me want to sit down on the spot. English DOR at its intricately ambient Eurodisco-cum-art-rock nadir, replete with steps for subtle metronomes and computerized sound effects that avoid vulgar sensationalism at all costs. Somebody take a good look at that singer's eyes and ask him whether he loves his mother. C-

New Gold Dreams (81-82-83-84) [A&M, 1983]
With more effort than hedonism should ever require, I make out three or maybe four full-fledged melodies on this self-important, mysteriously prestigious essay in romantic escape. Though the textures are richer than in ordinary Anglodisco, they arouse nary a spiritual frisson in your faithful synesthetician. Auteur Jim Kerr is Bowie sans stance, Ferry sans pop, Morrison sans rock and roll. He says simple, I say empty and we both go home. C+

Once Upon a Time [A&M, 1985]
Pittsburgh DJ in Billboard: "The term `superstar' is used too loosely. Simple Minds are a superstar to [A&M's] Charlie Minor, but a lot of my listeners have never heard of them." That's how bad things are, and that's not the half of it. Because you know damn well Charlie Minor thinks Simple Minds are "artists," too. B-

Even the groovy drum fill before the "La la-la-la laaaa" part???

Great Cthulhu these are great! There's a 10 minute run through of "Speed Your Love To Me / Book Of Brilliant Things" that's the great long-lost electro-motorik for 1982-era disaffected club kids. Only with guitar!

It was only a matter of time...

The original members of Simple Minds are due to work together for the first time in 27 years when they enter a recording studio in the middle of June '08. In an event that many never thought would happen again, Brian McGee, Derek Forbes, Mick McNeil, Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill, have set their aim on producing at least two new tracks that could be released later this year. Regarded by both Jim and Charlie as a 'nice experiment', particularly as it falls within their 30 year anniversary, the week-long reformation is being viewed as one of many 'let's see what happens' ideas that they look forward to working on over the course of the next year.

Jim Kerr said 'Of course I am excited with the prospect of working with the original line - up once more. I had always believed that the day would come when we would get the opportunity to do so. The last time we worked together was on our Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call album, featuring songs like The American, Themes for Great Cities, Love Song etc, and it is still considered by many as among our best ever work. We have a lot to live up to, but we intend to have some fun attempting to do just that.'

You can find out more news regarding the session in June here at simpleminds.com

As I muttered on Idolator, this can only work if they tie Kerr down and gag him.

I continue to feel sorry for them. I mean it's like they just know they jumped the shark.

Holy batman I wanna hear those Sparkle In The Rain demos mentioned upthread.

Nobody seems to give a hoot that Simple Minds are playing "New Gold Dream" in its entirity (sp?) on their forthcoming tour. Someone somewhere (in summertime) must care?

I'd care if it was followed by a ceremonious burning of master tapes from 1984 or so forward.

I'd throw some extra petrol onto that particular pyre, Ned.

Nobody seems to give a hoot that Simple Minds are playing "New Gold Dream" in its entirity (sp?) on their forthcoming tour. Someone somewhere (in summertime) must care?

I would care only if it was the same lineup that recorded New Gold Dream, otherwise it would be like watching Midge Ure perform all of Vienna. Yeah, the songs are great, but...

"Themes For Great Cities" anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FfCxLvV2nc

I mean holy hell. That is only a first place to START with these guys.

Do you think I've fucking forgotten about The American????!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FfCxLvV2nc

WERE THEY BETTER THAN U2????????????///

I fucking think they were better than early U2, yes.

After pulling out some old SM for my Forgotten UK Singles mix, I re-listened to everything. Aside from Andy K's AMG entries, ILM is the only other place with anything interesting to say about their early albums. Great read!

Generally, Simple Minds were at their best until 1982, but after that "Real Life" and "Street Fighting Years" >>>>>>>>> "Sparkle In The Rain".

Last night I read that after both Billy Idol and Bryan Ferry turned down Keith Forsey's offer of "Don't You...," Jim Kerr wasn't keen on the song either. Even though they went ahead and recorded it, Kerr never liked the song. Now I can't find where I read that. I wonder if he also didn't like Once Upon A Time. Street Fighting Years was a valiant attempt at an antidote to the embarrassing 80s bombast, but still sounds like a dud to me.

Street Fighting Years was a valiant attempt at an antidote to the embarrassing 80s bombast

?!? We're talking about a record produced by Trever Horn. It's bombast in excelsis!

Actually "Don't You Forget About Me" is a great song in a lot of ways, but it isn't a Simple Minds song, and it also helped pull them in the wrong direction although they were on the way in that direction on "Sparkle In The Rain" already.

"Street Fighting Years" I see more as a return to the bombast of their 80-82 era. It didn't work out quite as good, but it still had its moment, and I consider it a much better album than the U3,5 stadium rock of "Sparkle In The Rain" and "Once Upon a Time".

I loved SFY as a kid and in a way I thank that album for being some kind of gateway to quality music. I haven't heard it in 20 years and have no real desire to.

Hrm, well it wasn't poppy bombast. It seems like they tried not to be too commercial.

I can see where you're coming from with that, Geir; however, it is a pretty poor album. I do still like a couple of tracks from it - the first one, and This is your land.

On the other hand, I have been very much enjoying the first couple of "Themes" compilations, especially the second one - I like quite a lot of Sparkle in the Rain, and the second themes thing has a a kind of long remix of "Shake off the ghosts"

I saw them last night and, to my surprise, they did Love Song, I Travel and half of the NGD album. I should point out it was a free festival - I doubt I'd have gone if I'd had to go through the effort and expense of getting tickets. Pleasantly surprised, though, as I say.

Speaking of "Love Song" -- from 1981, a pretty amazing TV performance (it's just a mime to the studio cut, but dig, well, everything else!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq96dUQ87jk

LOLs at the satchel. Give us a sandwich, jimbo.

Nice name, called a tape that once.

Yeah, I do love the random satchel. Definitely rocking a proto-Eldritch look too.

That satchel contained all Jim Kerr's artistic integrity. He lost it along the way.

Seriously, does anyone know exactly what happened to this once-great band? Did they consciously choose to just sell out or was it evolutionary? Listening to "New Gold Dream" and "Sparkle In The Rain" yesterday, I've come all the way around in preferring the earlier arty stuff. Given the pop aspirations of those two records, "Don't You Forget About Me" clearly isn't the beginning of the end, though it is the point of no return. So it would seem that the move towards commerciality was gradual, like many of their peers who started off outside the mainstream of early 80s UK rock only to find themselves somehow embraced by it.

Seriously, does anyone know exactly what happened to this once-great band?

Isn't what happened to them the same as what happened to just about every other arty post-punk band that didn't split up, though? I don't think a band-specific explanation is needed.

Isn't what happened to them the same as what happened to just about every other arty post-punk band that didn't split up, though? I don't think a band-specific explanation is needed.

Not exactly. Yes, bands like Psychedelic Furs and Killing Joke put out one awful album, but then returned to their roots. Simple Minds just kept getting worse and worse.

In relistening to the early albums a bit here, I'm a little surprised to realize that a slight unspoken influence on it all was Sparks, because there doesn't seem to be much of them as having such a role. But while Jim Kerr obviously isn't trying for Russell Mael's falsetto or anything, there's a lot of the hyperactive nervous tension at work as well the sense of instrumental stateliness that the Maels also can call up when so inclined, especially given the prominence of keyboards in both bands. Again, not wanting to overstate the carry-over but Life in a Day and Real to Real Cacophony have tangential connections to glam-era Sparks on that front, while Empire and Dance and Sons and Fascination parallel No. 1 in Heaven and Terminal Jive (for Moroder substitute Hillage, I guess). After that divergences were more pronounced.

This fucking band, why the hell did they willingly go from this I'm about to link to where they ended up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p8jYN0qXxc

"I'm a little surprised to realize that a slight unspoken influence on it all was Sparks, because there doesn't seem to be much of them as having such a role. But while Jim Kerr obviously isn't trying for Russell Mael's falsetto or anything"

Yes, he does! Just listen 'No Cure', Ned - pure Maelism. And a few other tracks on 'Life In A Day' too, though not so blatantly.

who here has heard all these albums? you win a prize if you have.

# Live in the City of Light (1987) (2-LP/2-CD) live album
# Street Fighting Years (1989) 8th studio album
# Real Life (1991) 9th studio album
# Good News from the Next World (1995) 10th studio album
# Neapolis (1998) 11th studio album
# Our Secrets are the Same (originally 2000) 12th studio album (finally issued as CD#5 from Silver Box (2004))
# Neon Lights (2001) (covers album)
# Cry (2002) 13th studio album
# Black & White 050505 (2005) 14th studio album
# Sunday Express - Live (Volumes 1 & 2) (2007) (2-CD live album) (promotional exclusive Sunday Express free release)
# Graffiti Soul (2009) 15th studio album
# Searching for the Lost Boys (2009) (bonus covers album included in the "Graffiti Soul" Deluxe edition 2-CD set)

think i need to hear neapolis!

and to think that there are seven whole other albums that i adore! (once upon a time i can live without)

I still haven't heard Life In A Day. (or indeed anything past "Don't You Forget About Me" since I was very young in the 80s). Is it really worth it?

i don't know? i had no idea they were so prolific. never heard anything past the 80's either. but i gather its just mr. ex-chrissie hynde and lots of session people for a lot of later stuff. kinda have a morbid curiosity.

just so weird because everything up to and including sparkle in rain i dig SO much and then i have almost no interest because of what happened post-john hughes.

No I meant the first album, sorry my post was a bit confusing.

oh sorry! i'm tired. i like it. it's their roxy/magazine album. they were aping other people but they did it pretty good. i pretty much listen to anything like that from 1979, so, i'm not all that picky.

but, jeez, listening to empires and dance tonight, that always sounds so amazing to me. everything from that first line-up 79 to 81. i love it. 3 years! that's nothing now. they made 4 amazing albums in that time after life in a day.

i think Neapolis was supposed to be a return to the classic sound, heard it's not so great tho

i might youtube some stuff tomorrow, but i'm a little afraid to...

hey i liked some of that new OMD anyway.

just mr. ex-chrissie hynde and lots of session people for a lot of later stuff.

that's what did these guys in. i gave up after reviewing Real Life w/o enthusiasm.

early stuff like "I Travel" has aged v well.

I still like "Don't You Forget About Me" more than most people seem to, tho it obviously isn't a patch on their earlier work. It was "Belfast Child" that nailed down the coffin and posted it to the moon imo

but, jeez, listening to empires and dance tonight, that always sounds so amazing to me. everything from that first line-up 79 to 81. i love it. 3 years! that's nothing now. they made 4 amazing albums in that time after life in a day.

Yeah it's a pretty astonishing run as much for how they so effortlessly switch up their sound each time and remain so good. Of the albums from Reel To Real.. to New Gold Dream I can never decide whether Sons & Fascination/Sister Feelings Call are ever so slightly lesser or actually secretly the most interesting, and that's probably the SM I've listened to most in the past couple of years, it's like a puzzle.

One thing that interests me and I don't know much about is whether and how the band was responding to currents around them. I mean obv Reel To Real... is their experimental electronic post-punk record and as unprecedented as it sounds to me I can get why they were interested in making a record like that. But what provoked the shift to an even more electronic, pseudo-discoid sound on Empires and Dance? What were they listening to? And if they were really into disco or whatever, why did they suddenly switch to elaborate art rock less than year later? And if they were really into elaborate art rock, why the switch to synth pop less than a year after that? Were they just following their own muse, or was this reflective of micro-movements in trends that have (apart from the general notion of post-punk --> new pop) now been submerged? I wouldn't know.

it's a mystery! i would like to read some interviews from that time. were they huge krautrock fans? Empires and Dance has that vibe. Hunters & Collectors tried the krautrock thing around the same time with Conny Plank, but the results were nowhere near as good.

we know for sure that they were big Roxy fans. Big Bowie fans. Big Magazine fans. They had to have been big Ultravox fans. Ultravox mach one. Empires definitely has the Factory vibe as well, so we can assume that they were aware of and listening to Joy Division.

okay, looking over their wikipedia page - which is actually fairly comprehensive and well-written - this is interesting:

"The next album, Empires and Dance, was another stylistic departure, and signalled the influence of Kraftwerk, Neu! and similar European artists on the band. During this period of their career Simple Minds promoted themselves as being a European band, rather than Scottish or British."

I don't know HOW they promoted themselves as "European" exactly, but it makes sense. The album covers. The song titles. The whole aesthetic. They were loving the German thing.

Recently, I listened to a radio Scotland interview with Kerr around '84 or so, maybe earlier, just as Sparkle was coming out and they had just done a short UK tour and I was surprised at how crazed and preachy he sounded, albeit in an amusing way. But he was talking about music in really similar terms to how Bono did back then.
I'm certain something did happen just prior to NGD, enough to make them junk the European Guy schtick and move wholeheartedly towards The Big Music, which was more fashionable, arguably more in keeping with their roots and much more potentially profitable. They also had Mel Gaynor by this point, a big loud, capable rock drummer.

Oh yeah, if you were still doing plink-plonk barely melodic stuff in 1984, you were doing it wrong. Anthems is where the money was.

I'm certain something did happen just prior to NGD, enough to make them junk the European Guy schtick and move wholeheartedly towards The Big Music

Jim Kerr met Bono

Yeah but for all that the songs are 'bigger' and more straightforward 'new gold dream' actually sounds less like U2 than 'sons and fascination' does. That's what I find interesting about the band's early career: all the reversals.

Maybe we shouldn't have cashed in

Nice fauxhawk there, Jim.

OMG that haircut he looks like a hungover monk

Good article anyway. Classic older-but-wiser moves. M. I always love that 'total hamburger music' story you tell upthread.

oh yeah - even though I still have a soft spot for "don't you forget about me" this all sounds promising.

I have the X5 box set on it's way, looking forward to the bonus tracks and the full immersion!

There was an interview in the Quietus the other day too:

http://thequietus.com/articles/08040-simple-minds-jim-kerr-interview-5x5

2 revived threads one common love.

"I was like [he puts his head in his hands and groans]: 'We're the Boomtown Rats! This is fucked!'"

i would like to assume that bob had that happen at some point.

haha!

I remember being quite impressed when I heard Empires And Dance for the first time. It was definitely a bit of an eye-opening experience because up until that point I'd only heard the big hits from the "stadium rock" years. I also like how that cover is blatantly where the Manic Street Preachers nicked the font from for the artwork to The Holy Bible.

Still don't understand why Once Upon A Time gets more grief than Joshua Tree, for example

This band was 1000000x times more interesting than Brian En...sorry U2

I'd understand if you're debating both albums song by song, but just because Rolling Stone and Q writers thought U2 did the arena thing better doesn't negate the fact that everyone else (pretty much) prefers the early stuff of both bands anyway...and Simple Minds' early stuff is leagues above U2's

I know exactly three Simple Minds songs: "Don't You Forget About Me" "All the Things She Said" and "Alive and Kicking." And I'm having a really hard time picturing this same band in arty Radiohead mode. This thread has piqued my curiosity and I'm checking this Reel to Real Cacophony out. Should I start there or with New Gold Dream?

I had to go back and listen and see whether I thought this description and praise of "Promised You a Miracle" from the Quietus article was overstated:

'Promised You A Miracle' for all its accessibility and retrospective familiarity is as far a cry from the preset patterns of regular pop as can be imagined. It teeters arrhythmically, glitters and starts, breaks out in distant showers of tinsel and manna. It conjures not just possibilities for a better pop but a better life, to which music could act as some sort of wormhole.

And indeed after doing so, I don't think that it is. Extraordinary record.

yes, i remember simple minds, more than any early 80s band, seeming to point the way to some "better" music world, and that is why so many fans feel like an intense betrayal took place when they went big & bland. sparkle in the rain was the turning point but i feel there were still some great songs on it albeit with a too heavyhanded steve lilywhite touch. once upon a time was 95% shit.

Mr. Snrub: Reel to Real = SM at their most arty. Something akin to what Wire and Magazine were doing at the time (and early Human League in places too). New Gold Dream = less so, though none the worse for it. Just not as "experimental".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KCqWHhXK8

The X5 box set is a total joy, particularly loving "Reel To Reel" and Empires. There's lots of what-IS-that-sound moments such as the buzzsaw synth on "Changeling" as well as brilliant mutant krautrock like "30 Frames A Second". Even the Bowie/Roxy pastiche of the debut is great fun. Hurray for new opinions of old material!

And, really, "Twist/Run/Repulsion" is so wonderfully insane.

Wow. Indeed it is. Especially to someone like me who knew nothing about Simple Minds beyond "Don't You Forget About Me" and Once Upon A Time. Got some catching up to do, evidently.

Totally blown away by this. It's an exact crossbreed of Roxy Music and OMD, but so good and so cool and such fun.

http://youtu.be/3WXXyacakRo

Let's try that again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXXyacakRo

Yeah, Simple Minds had a ridiculously good set of influences that you can spot in lots of their early work - Roxy, Magazine, Kraftwerk, Bowie, Eno...

picked up 5*5 today on a whim.

debut passed me by and will need a few more spins, ears pricked up a little more with reel to reel, but then i put on empires and dance, and f*ck me.

'i travel' is just huge.

never expected that.

do things get any better i wonder ..

Sons and Fascination is probably my favourite, so in my opinion YES THEY DO

One thing I love about those early Simple Minds albums is Derek Forbes' bass playing. Respect to him for jumping ship at the right time, though.

blasted I Travel on the way to work this morning

to follow up my earlier post : things do indeed get better.
this stuff is absolutely fantastic.
the 1st two albums i need to live with a little longer i think before the penny drops, whereas the rest of this boxset is superb.

I think the band themselves were disappointed by the way the first album turned out. Best thing on Real To Real Cacophony is Changeling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbvwKqotIAY

this fear of god : the missing link between shriekback and crackdown era cabaret voltaire.

good spot!

so according to mojo article, derek was never supposed to be bass player, but due to his les paul getting half inched ended up doing the bass lines.

how f*cking lucky is that as i totally agree that his presence in the bands sound is a large factor as to why i have fallen hard for this stuff.

if this is the result then more guitarists need to be a victim of theft, and pick up the bass guitar.

(actually thats not that bad a piece of advise for 2012 .. )

Empires And Dance = Real To Real Cacophony > Sons And Fascination > Life In A Day > Sister Feelings Call

Nice to see the early Simple Minds stuff getting its due. There was a while there where I would only listen to Empires and Dance alone because I was tired for having to explain myself.

The recent box set is excellent and it's definitely nice to have those bonus tracks more widely available.

I have a question for those of you who bought the 2003 remastered CDs and the x5 box: how does the remastering differ between the two, if at all?

It's also got me eyeing that copy of Sparkle in the Rain at my local used CD place. It's one that I've never heard, writing it off years ago as something from the "new" (read: more produced) version of the band that I was not interested in.

EUROPE HAS A LANGUAGE PROBLEM!

Currently spinning Empires and Dance after not listening to it for a while, and once more wondering why 'I Travel' wasn't the huge smash hit that it deserved to be.

Where I come from I Travel was nauseatingly ubiquitous. It's cool though. Decades have passed.

Holy cow, the X5 box is going for $75 and up. I guess print runs these days are miniscule.

And even more on Amazon! Glad I picked it up.

Listening to the 5x5 live album. I'm not a big live album guy but this is shockingly fun. Whoever's doing the bass lines is killing it. It's more guitar focused than the studio takes but it all sounds great and the song choices flow really well.

the bass player was some guy from danny wilson if you can remember them. can't be easy filling derek forbes shoes though

It's an enjoyable album if you can overlook the fact that Jim sings songs like Factory and Calling Your Name like they were on Street Fighting Years

love that bass guitar ZAP sound that occurs at the end of every (other?) measure during "seeing out the angel".. simple but badass..like getting electrocuted but funky

simple minds, demigods of bass slappage and poppage

So there's a new album, and there's a new promo photo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGfT72VQAIzOrV.jpg:large

This has garnered various reactions. A friend made an edit:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGslppVoAALtpb.jpg:large

Oh yeah, this band are still going and didn't break up in 1984 like I often pretend they did.

rotten bastards - surely one of them could have helped jim up off the floor?

Charlie's not paid enough for that now.

after all jim's done for him too

Man, do I dislike their Breakfast Club anthem

You don’t seem to say much about the song itself (you know, musically)?

I saw the Simple Minds a few weeks ago. As alcoholic dementia is setting in I'll say it was a fine show (I have no capacity to evaluate quality of live performance for bands covering their own past glory). Worked well enough but I have been obsessed with Simple Minds videos since that night due to alcoholic dementia.

In particular I have been listening to "All the Things She Said, the first line of which I have been trying to parse and can only arrive at "Don't you look back on a bagel or swirl."

This AM I googled the lyrics and apparently it's "Don't you look back on a big lost world." I think that's fucking total BS. Listen to it clearly, he's saying "bagel."

Get fucked, LyricsDB.com

From our local paper, seems like a nice guy:

The brother of the lead singer of Simple Minds has been jailed for nine years after a judge deemed he was a danger to the public after stalking two fans.

Paul Kerr, brother of rock star Jim Kerr, accused J0hn Fagan of rape and murder and threatened to sexually assault his wife Julie in what started out as an online spat over the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band’s latest album.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18141149.simple-minds-jim-kerrs-brother-paul-kerr-jailed-nine-years-stalking-fans/

9 years is a long sentence. I was going to say that prison sentences in Scotland are usually a lot shorter than in England when I realized this trial was in England.

yeah it does sound p severe for an online argument, but his previous offences are a bit of a worry:

“I note that your previous convictions both arose out of seemingly innocuous business disputes, one which resulted in the victim’s home being set alight and the second in you breaking into the victim’s home and assaulting them with a weapon.

“I therefore find that you pose a significant risk to members of the public of serious harm occasioned by you.”

Are we sure he never played drums for the Housemartins?

haha

the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band

ouch

fuck. reading the story the spark of the campaign of abuse was mr fagan replying to a facebook post by paul kerr saying the new simple minds album was "pure shit".

it's a wonder any ILXors still have unburnt houses

we don't live in houses -- unless you mean glass houses

and all fagan actually wrote was:

"I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years and I think it’s a mistake to get rid of the two former band members."

I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years

eh, one of the new fans then, he's got no right to criticize

haven't dug into this story myself - did anything actually happen outside of the online threats jim?

it was a real campaign of harassment, he had became totally obsessed with them, ended with him saying he was coming to their town with a baseball bat to attack them and then him getting arrested because he had emailed two police forces to the effect that he was going to kill them

sweet christ

It looks as if Fagan was trolling Paul Kerr pretty hard on Facebook, now that I Google around a bit. Not that it merited being threatened and slandered as a pedophile, but it was hardly innocuous comments about the latest Simple Minds album:

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/10/18/simple-minds-singers-brother-was-also-targeted-on-facebook-jury-told/

the plot thickens!

facebook is making people crazy, wtf

Hate to think what would have happened had got started on the surfeit of bad acoustic, covers and live albums

Live in the City of Light is classic tho

You can take the boy out of Toryglen...

Judge Stephen Mooney asked: “How many mankinis does a man need?”

"Big Sleep" is so great

Yes, a wonderful song that shows how expressive and expansive they could be when they didn't have to freight everything with "importance".

I am in fact listening to the new one to kick off October 21, Day of Riches

it's kind of bad sure but also much more enjoyable than expected, will def get 'surprisingly good later work' kudos

the songs are nothing special but it is notably well produced and has a good sound, v bright and vigorous

It's their best album since Scary Monsters.

Just finished Graeme Thompson's book about the early Minds (stopping wisely after 'Once Upon A Time') it is definitely worth any fan's investigation.

It's alriiiight

Album that is, not book

The last TFF keeps coming to mind and I'd say they're on par

Definitely some likable stuff on here, the mastering is absurdly bad though. Celtic fiddly bits of 'Solstice Kiss' not welcome

Solstice Kiss was the best song

Yeah, possibly, although the title's use in the lyrics is hilariously clunky, you can imagine these old codgers trying to think of inspiration and coming up with this

Next album: Ash Wednesday Hug

Simple Minds Superfans Can Invest In A New Gold Dream: Songwriting + Sound Recording Royalties For 1977-1981 Material Now Up For Sale

As of last weekend, someone was selling the royalty rights to an early career batch of 107 songs by Simple Minds. Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill, the current members of Simple Minds Tours Ltd. sold their catalog to their current label, BMG. These are the sorts of big money deals where rock stars of as certain age take a cash out and at least in this case, they didn’t sell to one of the upstart music IP firms like Hipgnosis. And they are becoming very commonplace.

Given the list of songs, and the points in time where past members exited the band, I’m suspecting that these rights being auctioned are from original drummer Brian McGee’s shares in the band. His time ended in 1981 as he was taken to the limit in his years playing drums, and yes, driving the band all over Europe in vans since he was the one with a driver’s license. If it were Derek Forbes, it would include material from “New Gold Dream [81, 82, 83, 84]” and “Sparkle In The Rain.” McNeill only left after “Street Fighting Years.” So it has to be McGee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTJ26DktHgA

reposted from the obits thread:

Kenny Hyslop, Scottish drumming legend and all round good guy who taught 1000s of people how to drum.

Played with Simple Minds and then had his own band, Set The Tone.

― stirmonster, Tuesday, 17 September 2024 13:39 (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

he was the drummer after brian mcgee but left a year later to be replaced by mel gaynor. think he's only on one recording: 'promised you a miracle'

thanks for posting that doc btw mares!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9sQJFeo2-s

Mick Macneil, Derek Forbes and Brian McGee sharing their memories of Kenny Hyslop. Interesting chat about Promised You A Miracle from about 17.45 onwards - it was Kenny who found the main riff for that song on a funk track, which I hadn't actually heard before (they play a little snippet of it - would love to know what it is). Can't entirely follow why they all fell out about it though.

I believe it's "Too Through' by Bad Girls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4HluTup2g0

yep

Musically, "Promised You a Miracle" was inspired by an obscure 1981 dance song called "Too Through" by Bad Girls, with lead vocals by Jocelyn Brown

oh nice one, thanks! weirldy that was already in my wants list, so i guess i must've heard it before and not made the connection. not sure how i missed that!

Around 1991 I worked briefly in a little recording studio in Ayrshire, a Glaswegian session guitarist was friends with the owner and would come down with all sorts of waifs and strays.

Kenny Hyslop appeared with him one time, in full Ibiza meets Madchester dayglo top and bright dungarees, seemed a nice enough guy, bit of a caner by the looks of things, didn't take them long before I got the 'Promised You A Miracle' story, his arse was obviously very burnt by it all.

ah wow

i watched that doc the other night. i really enjoyed it though there were a few odd omissions.

i knew Kenny a wee bit in the late 90s / early 2000s. he was a regular at nights i put on in Glasgow for a while and persuaded me to let him play percussion along to some records one night. this is generally an ill advised disaster waiting to happen but he pulled it off with aplomb.

he was a man who loved a drink!

i watched that doc over two days. first half was like wow, this really is the best music ever, then i put it on again today and what the hell happened? fucking hell, what is this shite? was great to see the likes of steve hillage popping up though

I was the same. The first few albums were so good, but the bombastic stadium rock stuff is just unlistenable now. Never was a band such a game of two halves

Can't entirely follow why they all fell out about it though.

I would guess that Hyslop was aggrieved about not being included in the writing credits. As Forbes says, "he should have got a finder's fee".

Simple Minds are one of those bands where you can pinpoint almost the exact moment where they jumped off a cliff. At the beginning, they captured perfectly that sense we had of being the first working-class generation to have access to European travel and culture in a way that our parents never did. Their songs exuded a wide-eyed awe at discovering big city landscapes ('I Travel', 'Theme from Great Cities' etc.) that made it seem for those of us starting to study and work abroad that, yes, everything is possible.

This was great up to and including the first three songs of 'Sparkle in the Rain': 'Up on the Catwalk' is an effective opener, 'Speed Your Love to Me' is a great pop song and even the riff on 'Waterfront' is bludgeoningly effective at first. But Kerr's blood-curdling yell of 'Aye-Aye-Aye-Uhhh!' halfway through 'Waterfront' marks a transition away from his previous persona as enchanted observer to being the pompous crowd manipulator of the second half of his career. The rest of 'Sparkle in the Rain' is completely unlistenable, in part due to the album's oppressive production, but mainly due to Kerr's Messianic persona from 'East at Easter' onwards ('We will rock you, little child'), not forgetting their hideous cover of 'Street Hassle'.

I blame Bono.

Sometimes I think about the seductiveness oddness of a song like “70 Cities As Love Brings The Fall” and start to wonder if the seeds of SM’s downfall were also the key to their prior greatness, the unabashed pomposity was what ruined them eventually but it’s also part and parcel of the essential mystery of their earlier work.

undoubtedly, but definitely a point worth making! just trying to listen to sparkle again and struck by how up on tbe catwalk holds the seeds of the stone roses. that shuffle in the drums is pure baggy, and i can totally hear ian brown singing the 'i will be there' chorus

Speed You Love To Me foes sound great though, some spot of misty-eyed celtic funk rock, gonna pretend its jesse rae.

I'm a ling-standing Waterfront hater but the quiet bits in between all the bombast are really quite lovely in a early China Crisis kinda way. The rest of it is charlie doing that horrible The Edge-like non-shredding, sending shards of guitar crashing down from atop a skyscraper, all to the beat of Gary Glitter's Rock n Roll pt 2

long not ling, i'm obviously still away in tbe heather after Speed Your Love

Is Waterfront proto-schaffel? Prog schaffel maybe?

They went right off the rails trying to compete with U2. I did blame Bono earlier but the real culprits where Kerr and Burchill of course.

It was around this time jokes about Jim changing his name to Juan started emerging in Glasgow.

he didn't even did get his rewards for becoming a total arse, as in getting invited to g8 summits to act like an obsequious clown around putin and blair. or maybe that's a plus.

He is an arse but I can't hate him too much because he's a proper Celtic fan (so is Burchill) (as opposed to green and white cosplayers like B. Gillespie).

Second half of Sparkle is a struggle. Street Hassle cover is no Spacemen 3 thats for sure. White Hot Day is a big old load of nothing. Kick Inside Of Me is probably the low point. Starts off Jim loudly announcing himself like John Lydon at the start of Public Image and then he goes for this edgy rock n roll thing, maybe in his head it sounds like Alan Vega but it comes off more Billy Idol. Bassline is cool though, very Magazine. Whats that of their's, the when-i'm-in-the-air one? Because that.

Talking of bass, the playing in C Moon is my highlight of side two, lovely soft volume swelly stuff, wonder how he played that? Really exquisite, makes me think of Eberhard Weber. I like Shake Off The Ghosts a lot too (its instrumental for starters). The shuffley drum thing comes back, but this time in slo-mo. Very Mark Brzezicki, could actually be a Big Country-side, quite an emotional bit of music for me.

b-side. sorry my fone is kaputt

I like Shake Off The Ghosts a lot too (its instrumental for starters).

'Theme from Great Cities' is arguably Kerr's best vocal performance.

I do like Sparkle, but it is front-loaded, reminds me a lot of The Unforgettable Fire, a mix of really big songs and very slight experiments/jams.

Inspired by this thread I just listened to Sparkle in the Rain for the first time in several decades. I have to say it was a bit of a slog to get through! Empires and Dance/Sons and Fascination is their peak, New Gold Dream is good too, it has a lightness that the bloated Sparkle lacks, but I hear the beginning of the rot as well, the bombast creeping in...

Gotta admit that I was a child of the SM bombast, I still have a measure of love for Once Upon A Time (but nothing really after that), if you squint a bit you can just say 'Oh it's the Big Music, like The Waterboys...'

Jimmy Iovine with his 'hey you guys, I don't hear a SONG, where's the HITS YOU GUYS', fuck that clot.

Enjoyed the documentary, but the middle bit is the best because that's where the focus is. I'm a bit disappointed that - like the band heh? - the focus dissipates once we reach the late 80s and it all becomes a bit too simplified for my liking. Kerr seems to have forgotten that, uncool or not, Simple Minds were still selling more albums than "The Stone Roses and Madchester" over 89-91. And who apparently even knows what they did after Street Fighting Years. Did they still have two UK No. 2 albums after that?

Sparkle in the Rain is fantastic, through and through. Though it took me a while to see that. It's my favourite album for Derek Forbes if not my actual favourite Simple Minds (one of the three before it). The majesty of "Up on the Catwalk", so undeniable and splashy but compellingly oblique - a marble fountain done all modernist, like. It's the old 'may be meaningless but sure as hell doesn't sound it so it isn't' 1984 business at its best. "East at Easter" and "Shake Off the Ghosts" still have that 81/82 glacial texture put to an excellent if poignant ending. "Waterfront", actual Scottish industrial music (cf. Big Country's Steeltown), but on a killer catwalk bassline with the business of writing an actual tune a secondary concern, a la Frankie's "Relax". Those wave-poll bass whooshes on "White Hot Day" make it much the same. No mention of Lillywhite in the doc a bit surprising and sad, considering they even arranged for Steve Hillage to compliment John Leckie to his face.

But along came Jimmy Iovine, who told them to knock this 'atmosphere first, song-as-in-a-song-you-can-play-on-an-acoustic-guitar second' malarkey. Kerr seemed to really take that to heart.

love a westbury post, even when their taste confounds me. gotta say i found it really sad when they talked about forbes being kicked out of the band. someone just slowly fucking up their big opportunity, must be an awful thing to live with. alcohol is truly cursed. was going to say 'and what iconic basslines has john giblin ever written anyway?' and then i remembered he played on cdb's 'the lady in red'

According to Derek Forbes he was sacked from the band over his addiction to the laydeez.

haha fair enough

A few months ago I did a post on facebook where I summed up my feelings, which I repeated last week when someone brought up a Francois K. mix in Francois K's World of Echo facebook group. He came on to say it wasn't his best work.

Regardless my take was as follows and mostly aligns with most here...

First album has some great songs but too slavish to Magazine and Roxy among others.
Second album is the same but now with Kraftwerk and Joy Division influence.
I like both of those albums and they have some classic songs, but they're not game-changing.

Empires and Dance has them coming into their own, and Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call is an embarrassment of riches. Just amazing stuff.

New Gold Dream is a masterpiece song and sound-wise...but it has a quality to the production that's a bit more homogenous and less interesting than the 3 before.

Sparkle in the Rain and Once Upon a Time push the synths more and more to the background and bring anthemic rock to the foreground, but I still like some of the songs and performances. They're not pushing any envelopes but there's some good songs. Losing Derek Forbes between the two is a big problem. I guess your tolerance for a certain type of overproduced 80s rock will impact your enjoyment of those two albums.

Nothing past those is of any interest to me whatsoever. But I like All the Things She Said. I love Alive and Kicking, but maybe that's as much nostalgia. I probably like Alive and Kicking more than anything U2 did that sounds like that.

This Herald article on Forbes explains why he, Brian McGee and Mick MacNeil decided not to take part in the recent documentary, and gives Forbes' perspective on his sacking. Jim Kerr doesn't come out of the incident looking great.

Charlie, Mick and Paul Kerr, Jim’s brother, came into the office. Charlie and Mick were both crying, and Paul was raging about Jim, who was not there. I ended up talking to Jim on the phone. Jim just wouldn’t listen or give me a chance to redeem myself. I had disappeared from the band too often, giving too much attention to my girlfriend, and not nearly enough to the band. But, whatever the reason, I was sacked and that was it.

Jim on Sparkle is night and day from the albums prior, even New Gold Dream. It's like a stage hypnotist has made him believe his is Bono. There's still much to like on the album, but it's inescapable

What I find interesting is that Achtung Baby has so much in common with what the Minds were doing circa Empires-Sons And Fascination, yet by 1991 Simple Minds had half turned into Runrig. INXS, Deacon Blue etc all had a go at 'doing an Achtung Baby' to some extent, but the Minds seemed to double down by the time of She's A River, by trying to keep the stadium dream alive

I thought “She’s a River” was an attempt to sound like Achtung Baby (or themselves, earlier), but that said, I did watch them at Glastonbury ‘95 giving it all the “Lemme see your hands in the air” to a few hundred disinterested crusties (and me).

Nothing past those is of any interest to me whatsoever. But I like All the Things She Said

Yeah i always liked that one too, there is something beautiful lurking in that song somewhere. The video is charmingly terrible, i dont know if those were state of the art special effects back then, but they always seemed to conjur up some bbc sci-fi show from several years earlier, blakes 7 or something. Jim wears a variety of different costumes, all of them awful. When i saw them live in tbis era he had tight black leggings, a huge white blouse, an embroidered waistcoat and a giant black beret bejewelled with a large green stone that looked like a fucking time crystal or something. what we he even going for? renaissance space nonce?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tytPcvyJASc

rennainonce

it absolutely looks like the intro to 1986-era Doctor Who

they all had naff retro-future clothing too

Oh yeah, "All the Things She Said" is a good song. Jim, Jim, those stripey breeks, what were you thinking?

I've seen someone else claim the Minds in 1995 were trying to do an Achtung Baby themselves, but I cannot hear that at all. They sound like Then Jericho

Or on Hypnotised (which is kinda great): INXS

I'm going to go see Derek Forbes in November. Probably Scotland's greatest ever bassist. https://www.stlukesglasgow.com/events/renegade-communications-presents-a-very-simple-mind-on-tour-derek-forbes-ex-simple-minds/

i was recently flying back to Glasgow from London and Jim Kerr was in the queue in front of me waiting to board. A man came over and said to him "You're someone famous aren't you? Where do I know your face from?" and without missing a beat Kerr replied "Crimewatch".

LOL, nice one Jim!

(xp) There is Jack Bruce to consider too.

Simple Minds did do a 'Pop', I suppose, or rather a late 90s 'electronica' album. The thing about Neapolis though is that if anything it's a roots move, where - at least in theory - they remember the band they were in the early 80s and largely forget the intervening decade and a half. Ofc it's not that simple but I do enjoy it and how it announces its 'we're no longer a stadium band oh noes' from the sleeve alone.

Also,

love a westbury post, even when their taste confounds me.

― Bernard Quidbins (NickB), Thursday, 19 September 2024 14:02 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

thanks! but even Simple Minds worked hard to convince me here because ten years ago i did not get Sparkle-era SM at all. I suppose there's no real consensus.

One of my parents' first concerts together was Simple Minds at Milton Keynes, 1991, opened by the Stranglers and OMD. I've never seen a copy of Real Life in the house. How the singles go I struggle to remember. I do wonder how well all those songs, invisible on the radio in the years to come, really went down to such an enormous crowd.

Ever since I heard "New Gold Dream" I've been on this quest to find a song with that sense of openness, of possibility.

The German 12" is the one

Yep, I own the deluxe edition of the album.

The bottin edit is the one!

I went to see Derek Forbes tonight doing a Q&A and live set. He is extremely entertaining and very funny. Lots of great anecdotes. Jim Kerr's ears must have been on fire. He talked quite a lot about Propaganda too and did an absolutely note perfect impression of Claudia Brücken singing.

He then played live for an hour with a drummer (I didn't catch who they were) and keyboard player (Brian McNeil, once upon a time a member of China Crisis). They were truly excellent. Forbes sang (very well). He has still got it - his bass playing sounded incredible and I didn't miss the lack of guitar at all). He played close to my dream Simple Minds set -

Waterfront
Celebrate
Love Song
Changeling
I Travel
New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84)
The American
Theme for Great Cities

Whoa awesome!

oh man, that sounds fantastic! was hoping you'd do a gig report - god, i would've had mad goosebumps at the opening notes of some of those songs

internet says the drummer was probably tony soave who was in the silencers (who i'm sure you already know were the band that fingerprintz turned into, that drummer wasn't in them though)

it was indeed tony soave.

and yes, several mad goosebumps moments.

Wow sounds great.

nice set

The documentary is off youtube now, is Paramount Plus really the only place its showing?

Another person uploaded it on youtube, enjoyed it. I'm still quite new to the band and kind of hoping I'll like some of the albums after the first 5.