Any band/album recommendations?
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
Browse with love.
― Xii (Xii), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 19:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://www.clairecords.com/, for anyone else looking.
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
http://jetset.sinner.com/
Also, from the "Imaginary Tribute Bands" thread, I firmly think someone should capitalize on my idea and form an angular post-hardcore band that plays dream-pop covers and call themselves SHUGAZI. I'd fuckin' go see that in a nanosecond.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Nick Mirov (nick), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 21:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― brg30 (brg30), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oops. I didn't realize they had started redirecting. Not too long ago there was a separate site for Clairecords.
― Xii (Xii), Wednesday, 11 June 2003 22:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 12 June 2003 06:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― kate (kate), Thursday, 12 June 2003 07:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Thursday, 12 June 2003 07:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mike Taylor (mjt), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― derrick (derrick), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
they did away with the old site cause new blood took over the tech duties and did tonevender all nice and cool. (* cries! i was their tech guy but life changes and all.)
i'm not sure i'd really call them revival. clairecords has been putting out shoegaze influenced records since the early 90's.
much of their music has totally different attachments besides the earliest goods.
very, very nice guys. buy stuff from them. rare is the distro that sends you candy with your goods!
m.
― msp, Friday, 13 June 2003 00:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― keith (keithmcl), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
― keith (keithmcl), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
Also, look up a band on MP3.com called the Flashing Astonishers. Or the Flaming Astonishers. One of the two.
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 13 June 2003 04:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 13 June 2003 04:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― kate (kate), Friday, 13 June 2003 07:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:12 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Ian Johnson (orion), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:23 (twenty years ago) link
kthx.
― Ian Johnson (orion), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:30 (twenty years ago) link
The Ecstacy Of Saint Theresa - S/D
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:31 (twenty years ago) link
i am silly and should have thought of searching.
― Ian Johnson (orion), Monday, 29 March 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago) link
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 29 March 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 29 March 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago) link
fun fact: a looooooong before i was blessed with his friendship, occasional ilx0r msp did the website for clairecords. he is dreamy. seriously.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 29 March 2004 21:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Lil' Won Jilliams (ex machina), Monday, 29 March 2004 21:40 (twenty years ago) link
(xp)
― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 29 March 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Ian Grey (Ian_G), Monday, 29 March 2004 23:09 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 29 March 2004 23:35 (twenty years ago) link
radio dept. are maybe the best pop shoegaze band, their newest ep 'pulling our weight' is great.
― keith m (keithmcl), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 01:30 (twenty years ago) link
― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 01:35 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 01:36 (twenty years ago) link
― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 01:39 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 01:46 (twenty years ago) link
― brg30 (brg30), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:02 (twenty years ago) link
― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Ryan WS (fffv), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:43 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:44 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 02:46 (twenty years ago) link
― glenny g2003 (glenny g2003), Tuesday, 30 March 2004 09:23 (twenty years ago) link
― the blissfox, Tuesday, 30 March 2004 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
― keith m (keithmcl), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 01:20 (twenty years ago) link
Ten years after the first one! Or so it seems.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link
YES! Especially The Sound of the Colour of the Sun. Absolute classic (if you're into shoegazer, that is).
― rainman (rainman), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 21:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:07 (twenty years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:13 (twenty years ago) link
MahoganyPia FrausBrasiliaOn!Air!Library!
All worthy of checking out.
― goodies, Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― donut bitch (donut), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:24 (twenty years ago) link
whoops! I actually forgot to paste your post before mine. I figured out the track I heard was "Gleaming Auction", but other songs on the album, 'Final Straw' sound similar.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:44 (twenty years ago) link
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:47 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 22:48 (twenty years ago) link
― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 23:49 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 23:55 (twenty years ago) link
I vote for the Delays over Mew, they work better on some undefinable level, though both are quite fine. Fennesz is better than both, though. The Joshua Treble solo album that came out recently is a pretty good if not striking Fennesz-like release which has its moments of haze and gaze.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 March 2004 23:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:07 (twenty years ago) link
Are they? I have to be honest, I didn't sense that, it just seemed like, well, enjoyable shoegaze, and I definitely don't recall any Pumpkins-like ego-apocalypse. Even Stina Nordenstam singing on tracks didn't spark things up further. The Delays are fairly straightforward perhaps, but they've got a good producer in Graham Sutton and they know how to work in strange noises into their songs, and it was all in all more involving for me, by a hair I guess.
I think Fennesz is doing something that can't be compared to those "bands".
Which is part of the point, by demonstrating how to use haze for alternate purposes -- it's a seemingly obvious equation of gaze plus IDM with ridiculously grand results that tends to trump all the other recent attempts at same -- whereas all the new bands sound like...bands doing shoegaze. Which, as I thought while I listened to some Bethany Curve, isn't always enough anymore.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:13 (twenty years ago) link
"Am I Wry? No""156""Snow Brigade"
There's *way* more going on with the arrangements and textures than anywhere on the Delays album, and the vocals go quite stratospheric at points.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:36 (twenty years ago) link
Really, this is all based on first listens, and the Delays' hooks worked better than Mew's, and that always counts for something. As such, Mew really ultimately strike me as no more or less creative than the Delays, the latter just has a little certain something in the end results more.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:52 (twenty years ago) link
As for Fennesz, as much as I enjoy his records (and especially several of the tracks on 'Venice'), it just whets my appetite for something that's beautiful on more levels - whether it be a catchy melody, more propulsion, more rhythm etc. The best tracks on 'Venice' sound like 'Loveless' interstitials which is a high compliment, but they're not specifically why I always return to that record. Also, there's a Kevin Shields piece called "2" from his La La Human Steps collaboration which is perhaps his best pure texture track (I've only found a barely acceptable quality .mp3 unfortunately). It gives me that same ecstatic nausea that frankly, no other "shoegaze" artist can do.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 1 April 2004 00:57 (twenty years ago) link
One Delays track I'm thinking of has this bit of Sigur Ros-style 'beautiful' guitar noise, but they then proceed to make a hook out of that instead of floating off into the ether wibbling like Our Boys From Iceland. Really captured my ear, because it's a seemingly simple approach that adds some unexpected depth, and not in the 'oh it is art' sense, just in the 'hey, more going on!' sense.
it just whets my appetite for something that's beautiful on more levels - whether it be a catchy melody, more propulsion, more rhythm etc
Well that's why for me when Sylvian brings in the purring voice everything's all 'oh heavens, THIS is nice.' I hadn't even realized he was on there and I still haven't heard the stuff they did together last year, so it was quite striking how well the two combined.
ecstatic nausea
Mmmm, nausea. Needs to be more of that. Haven't been knocked sideways in a long, long while.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 April 2004 01:04 (twenty years ago) link
Yes there is (re: Snowpony), and the second disc is remarkable, being as it's tracks off the album remixed in a drum'n'bass stylee by, er, Moving Shadow's Rob Playford...
As a slight aside, I finally got my mitts on a copy of Lush's Gala compilation! Arrived in the post yesterday. My, is it lovely.
Oh, and as to the shouegazine revival, think I might've mentioned Sennen before, but I've only just found out they have a website. so ner.
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 1 April 2004 08:51 (twenty years ago) link
― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 1 April 2004 08:52 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 1 April 2004 09:05 (twenty years ago) link
― yo yo yo (cRaiG), Friday, 2 April 2004 06:34 (twenty years ago) link
I mean, it was even called "Sonic Cathedrals" and everything.
Radio Department played. But that wasn't even the highlight of the evening. The Telescopes DJ'd.
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:35 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:45 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:46 (twenty years ago) link
Next thing you know some corny English fuck will talk over some crappy electro beats about SMSing....
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:46 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:47 (twenty years ago) link
What's crazy is I had forgotten just how danceable much of Shoegazing really was! I mean, sure, lots of it was Cathedrals of Sound type prettiness, but the extended dance mixes and the Weatherall mixes and the "rave music with Rickenbachers, right?" stuff...
I guess, post-Manitoba, someone actually realised "YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!? CHAPTERHOUSE REALLY WERE GREAT!!!"
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:51 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 07:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Hanna (Hanna), Monday, 25 October 2004 08:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:08 (twenty years ago) link
(And hey surfacenoise - I'll be visiting Melbourne in a couple months, so you'd have five people there... )
― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:14 (twenty years ago) link
I spent the first 20 minutes just staring at the screen, until I realised that it was on a repeating loop. I mean, Lush videos! Ride videos I'd never seen. Slowdive videos. Chapterhouse videos. Did I mention the SONIC BOOM videos? They did a whole Spacemen spin-offs set including even The Darkside.
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 25 October 2004 09:40 (twenty years ago) link
― cw (cww), Monday, 25 October 2004 10:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:14 (twenty years ago) link
― cw (cww), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:18 (twenty years ago) link
cough, splutter. my mouth is opening and closing but no words are coming out.
― koogs (koogs), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:22 (twenty years ago) link
I think Pale Saints were one of the most underrated bands of the 90s.
I was in the loo when "Sight Of You" came on, but I was so so so so soooo happy to hear it again.
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:26 (twenty years ago) link
Yes, definitely, very much OTM!
― Hanna (Hanna), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:43 (twenty years ago) link
― cw (cww), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:48 (twenty years ago) link
― cw (cww), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:54 (twenty years ago) link
strawberry wine / mercy seat / how you satisfy me
I nearly exploded with happiness. Oh wait, maybe that was the heat. But still. No heat in the world could have stopped me from dancing to that.
― Kissing Time At The Pleasure Unit (kate), Monday, 25 October 2004 11:57 (twenty years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 25 October 2004 12:05 (twenty years ago) link
notable only for their cover of Since Yesterday.
― koogs (koogs), Monday, 25 October 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 25 October 2004 13:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 October 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago) link
also apparently tomorrow is:
We wish My Bloody Valentine's Debbie Googe a very Happy Indie Birthday today!
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 25 October 2004 13:59 (twenty years ago) link
i was there! twice!
ride, curve, slowdive in 1991er, jesus jones in 1992
http://www.mail-archive.com/sinister@majordomo.net/1998-month-07/msg00471.html(check out the 'prev by date' message 8)
― koogs (koogs), Monday, 25 October 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Piers (piers), Monday, 25 October 2004 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
― Rob M (Rob M), Monday, 25 October 2004 14:44 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 15:15 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 October 2004 15:21 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 15:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 October 2004 15:24 (twenty years ago) link
― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:17 (twenty years ago) link
ecstasy of st. theresa - sussurate
also: tonevendor (who are big-upped on the Sacramento C/D, S/D. thread) are daniel and heather of clairecords.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Clusterfuck at the Baja Fresh Salsa Bar (Ben Boyer), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:32 (twenty years ago) link
Where was Slough festival held? If that's not a silly question.
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 25 October 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:10 (twenty years ago) link
mbv's "soon" has a good beat but it's not really dancefloor-danceable (sorta like flipper's "sex bomb", &c).
― etc, Monday, 25 October 2004 22:39 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Piers (piers), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 00:30 (twenty years ago) link
― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 03:43 (twenty years ago) link
THE EARLY YEARS!!!
http://www.myspace.com/thesoundoftheearlyyears
Go get it. I heart them.
― Going Through The Motions (kate), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 11:17 (eighteen years ago) link
i'm still enjoying the fleeting joys album despite it being hilariously derivative
jeniferever are also v good
― electric sound of jim [and why not] (electricsound), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 22:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 26 October 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Is it a different mix from the album? I mean, I would actually say they're slightly better live than on album (well, apart from them not doing the harmonies live, but we've had a word about that, and they promise they'll try) but still, the album is bloody good.
― Going Through The Motions (kate), Friday, 27 October 2006 09:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 27 October 2006 09:24 (eighteen years ago) link
There's a lot of The Church in here as well as the obvious Shoegaze/Krautrock references. This is why I keep thinking you'd like it.
"Simple Solution" wouldn't be out of place on The Blurred Crusade or Remote Luxury.
― Going Through The Motions (kate), Friday, 27 October 2006 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link
Er um uh. (Meaning, soonish?) Meantime I will be reviewing the Like a Daydream comp for the AMG, roxor.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 27 October 2006 13:22 (eighteen years ago) link
They sent me a MySpace friend request awhile back that I never got around to answering. I'll give them a listen...
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Friday, 27 October 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― RoxyMuzak© (roxymuzak), Monday, 30 October 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link
serious question--does the revival ever end? What's it like in the UK?
Seems like there's a lot more shoegazer/dreampop floating to the surface this year.
― The Great Forgiver (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
It is all kinda eternal at this point. For good/ill.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 10 April 2013 01:59 (eleven years ago) link
never forget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3xATi5s9-A
― hoda nkotb (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think it's going anywhere
saw these guys the other day and quite enjoyed it, though the melodies are a bit weak at times
http://pearlsgirlspearls.bandcamp.com/
― Im am... gobsacked (electricsound), Wednesday, 10 April 2013 22:41 (eleven years ago) link
lol Ned check this out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/apr/12/shoegazing-back-in-fashion
― The Great Forgiver (dandydonweiner), Saturday, 13 April 2013 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
It was a great year for shoegazers and dreampop
― Multiple Miggs (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
And the new Alcest is just going to drive it even higher next year.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
Shoegaze "was one of the wimpiest genres" of the 1990s. As opposed to "gangsta rap", I suppose.
― Sweetfrosti (I M Losted), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 02:15 (eleven years ago) link
sometimes it seems like a lot of the black metal stuff is really just renamed shoegazerz
― Multiple Miggs (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
No joke, I pretty much got into black metal via the stuff where the guitars sounded shoegaze-y to me.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 3 December 2013 09:33 (eleven years ago) link
thew new Chambermaids is great....lots of shoegaze stuff/dream/psych stuff in mpls these dayshttp://chambermaids.bandcamp.com/
― Southern Lorde (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 3 December 2013 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
OTM
― Multiple Miggs (dandydonweiner), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 12:49 (eleven years ago) link
I really dig the new album (never heard the previous one TBH) from The History Of Apple Pie.This is the first video/single from the album and it's also my favorite song, though I like the whole disc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M80Rn843dKI
I wasn't sure what 2014 rolling thread to put this in and I didn't think the band was popular enough to devotre a new thread to so here it is! Hopefully someone likes it...
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 2 October 2014 13:46 (ten years ago) link
Previous album was good, haven't heard this new one but I'll check it out!
― bippity bup at the hotel california (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 October 2014 14:36 (ten years ago) link
Really enjoyed their first album and looking forward to spending time with this.
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 2 October 2014 19:57 (ten years ago) link
it's a nice little record - oddly the two singles they preceded it with seem to be the two most out-of-place things on it
― outback bumfuc (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
mentioned elsewhere but the two most recent album releases on shelflife - hobbes fanclub and luxembourg signal - both have sweetly shoegazey elements in amongst the jangle
― outback bumfuc (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2014 22:39 (ten years ago) link
and come recommended