Tortoise: Classic or Dud

I enjoy DJed when I listeen to it, which is almost never. And the guitar refrain in "TNT" is excellent. But they've always struck me as pretty, well, I hate to say it, boring. Maybe I'm not listening closely enough.

There's an interesting piece on the Space Age Bachelor website about Tortoise. His idea is that the band is so bland fans of all kinds are able to read whatever they like into the music (i.e., the Slint fans hear Slint, d'n'b fans hear d'n'b, jazz fans hear jazz...all the while none of these things are done well & the synthesis isn't particularly interesting.) Seems pretty accurate to me. But as I say, maybe they'll click for me some day. It's not impossible.

xoxo

And I LOVE the marimba!! John McEntire one of all the all-time great percussionists.

And I suppose I'll be the first one here to come out massively in favor of "classic" status. I'm a bit surprised at the number of "dull" tags being put on them here -- I've always found them quite the opposite -- but I can't put my finger on what particular quality might be responsible for that split. I'm guessing it has something to do with context, and the "new direction" posited above: for those who'd spent the years preceding Tortoise's emergence following a largely rock-ish or pop-ish indie scene, I suppose the band was far more likely to seem energized and worth-every-second. If you'd spent the early nineties listening to old Cluster records, perhaps that effect would be diminished. But I'd offer, in their defense, that their lack of dullness has to do with the fact that unlike many of their antecedents, they were surprisingly not all about texture: their compositions have always struck me as far more sophisticated, melodic, and linear than many of the units one might argue they sound like. Which is to say: I think their "sound" is a red herring in terms of evaluating them, because the definable compositions beneath that "sound" would hold up equally well with a different presentation. I love bands like this, where what seems like a "sound" in the presentation sense turns out to be created more by the composition -- more by what they're playing -- than how they're playing or producing it.

As for classic status, this was cemented for me by Standards. I was somewhat afraid that they'd seem a little pale by that point, with the freshness of the scene long worn off -- but it still amazed me. I think they're one example of the genre that will continue to have relevance whatever the fate of the scene.

I've only heard Standards a couple times and found it dire. I will try again though eventually. The opening to the first track: awesome. The 'funk' - scary.

And yes I like Keith Jarrett.

I also think there's a performativity issue here: groups that sound like them are usually best listened to as non-performative creations, while they're best appreciated as a tightly-organized performative unit? Seeing them live changed my take on this slightly, and made me like them even more. . .

Discuss.

Never understood Zeppelin, or the Stones, or anything with that up- front blues/rock feel. Well, I understand it now, and can enjoy it, but it's not a formative influence like it is with most people.

am i a dickhead

sam prekop, have my babies!

brokeback! i luv yr noodley bass nonsense.

er, and all the other ones.

anyway, thrill jockey do have the lonesome organist who is well good.

oh, im gonna fight my corner a bit re tortoise. many people here nad everywhere think they are very boring....well, many people here (maybe the same) luv missy elliott and her '....so addictive'. well i am listening to it now (1 pound from russia....) and i think THAT is pretty boring.

er i dont know what that proves, but im just a bit bored myself, of snide hipster posturing......i guess everyone likes having a common

Have you tried black-metal? It's a lot more amusing than Tortoise, and there's no blues at all!

tortoise albums = inconsistent;
tortoise singles = great (the duophonic "gamera", the first two singles, the tortoise vs. autechre remixes, the jim o'rourke remixes).

the japanese digest compendium that blends the original tracks with rhythm resolutions and clusters remixes is the high point for me, "djed" is incredibly dense in sound.

anything done with bundy k. brown i've found to enjoy.

TNT lost me (although the nobukazu takemura remix is incredible), haven't heard anything since. i think that jeff parker is a good guitarist in theory, but his stylistic methods (volume pedal and overt jazzisms) were off-putting and eventually turned me off to the band.

Parker is a member of the AACM, you know.

gygax! whaddaya think of Pullman?

A nobly doomed effort.

*raspberry*

you know, I never heard pullman but I really liked that Directions In Music thing with doug scharin. haha, wasn't chris brokaw also in that band? drums or guitar?

and Ned, why don't you go flounce off?

everything afterwards, while still often enjoyable, just seems like smooth-jazz noodling in comparison.

No, but Ken "Don't Call Me Bundy" Brown was.

and the audience wasn't much better. standing their stroking their chins and furrowing their brows. i was trying to fucking dance, dammit!

near the end of college, listening to lots of "college rock" (pavement et al.), i discovered tortoise, and it really blew the door open for discovering non-rock bands that are amazing and influential. while not necesarilly introducing me to lots of styles, they made me really interested in new territories -- dub, kraut rock, prog, electronic, minimalist composers like steve reich and terry riley, ennio morricone, glitch [through label mates oval], more out forms of jazz.

i think after a while the whole post rock scene became very same-y, especially from the second generation of post-rock bands, who's influences were tortoise, rather than all of the aforementioned styles tortoise borrowed from.

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

I saw them at the NYC show, and it was no good either. I've seen them a bunch live, tho, and that was the first time they were truly sucky. And I've danced during those other shows, too (and unlike Out Hud, they did not command me to!).

i once met the band, while they were Tom Ze's back up band, and they were complete assholes

hehehehe, well I can see that. Was that when Ze played Park West? I was at that show. Anyway, McEntire's kinda shy, which makes him seem aloof (I don't think he played with Ze). Herndon is kinda bratty sometimes. But Doug, Bitney and Jeff are some of the nicest guys I've known, ever. ESP. Doug. That man is totally a saint. Unpretentious, down-to-earth, willing and able to chat about anything/everything in a really cool way. If most "hatas" got to meet Doug and just talk with him for five mintues, their icy hearts would melt. Or not. I say that tho 'cause a lot of the hating has little to do with the music, and much to do with a (mis)perception of their personalities.

and Standards was a big steaming pile of dog doo

No disagreement here, bro-dy. Don't know why I own this.

Shan't.

Oh jeez ... what AECO tune did they butcher?

"Theme de Yo Yo", sans vocals, natch. It was ARGGGH-ifying.

Natch.

anyone listened to this lately? i think it's aged much better than the tortoise stuff.

the drone dissolving into the concrete then the emergence of the acoustic passages and finally the abstract jungle beats into reverse synth bleeding.

Rockist: 'The Bar' is available on the three disc version of Perfect Lives, but it's a slightly different recording. That is an exceptional piece. He should get a whole thread, I'm an Ashley fanatic.

I didn't know the Ashley piece was based on someone else's poem.

and the only thing the tortoise piece has in common with the ashley piece is the namedrop. still no need to listen to tortoise.

But I bought some later Ashley that didn't hook me in, so I've kind of backed off from his work. (I can't think of the title right now, but it was a large-scale opera type thing.) Also, "The Bar" is really my favorite part of that Perfect Lives work.

I guess one of us should start an Ashley thread. You know more than I do, but if you start one some time, I'll chime in, maybe think of something new to say (maybe not).

didn't mean to be anti-Tortoise above, they certainly were better than many things in the 90's.

frustrating to realize only the rough tape survived. think of what they could have done with a more detailed mixdown.

I don't see what the big deal with the "tape crash" thing is.

I like Bumps more than I thought I would! It's fun to hear the whole frequency range is given over to the drums, like wide-screen breaks. I wish it came with some notes about how they got some of those sick drum sounds (or maybe it does, it's not like I have the cd).

'millions now living...' is about as interesting and compelling as the genre gets. one of my favourite records of all time. well, top 30.

'tnt' is nice, but a little jammy and unfocused for my liking

'it's all around you' is one of those records that has really obvious merits, but not a gread deal of replay value i feel

TNT trumps all.

I'd really like another album from these guys

Theyve paved the way (along with Godspeed!) for the countless instrumental bands out now. Yay!(?)

yeah, can't really thank them very enthusiastically for that. Although I do like some of the projects they were linked to (Brokeback at times, Isotope 217, Town and Country, etc.)

Yeah. Fuck The Shadows. And Booker T & The MGs. And jazz. And Beethoven.

<i>Fuck the Shadows</i> sounds like an emo band.

Fuck the BB Code

These guys lost it when they got that gtr guy in.

the fact that there's so much of this instrumental stuff out there now gives me a good basis of comparison to determine that tortoise is up there as one of the best of the genre. instrumental, post-rock stuff frequently bores me these days, but it's nice to have a few favourites.

aren't they supposed to have a new one this year?

Yeah. Fuck The Shadows. And Booker T & The MGs. And jazz. And Beethoven.

-- Scik Mouthy, Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:34 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Look, captain obvious, I listen to more instrumental music than non. I was just bemoaning the proliferation of b-level postrock bands.

they could have been giants

These guys lost it when they got that gtr guy in.

-- Raw Patrick,

do you mean jeff parker? his solo album 'the relatives' was pretty neat. more of a straight up jazz (rock) vibe.

Yeah that guy. I've heard him play good on other records but he changed Tortoise in a way I didn't want.

DUD. boring band. nothing interesting happening at all. Except for Djed, which is kinda great

djed=one of the most interesting compositions of the 20th century

all these layers of in different directions moving sounds
a mazing, i'm sorry, if you can't hear this ...
well, listen again & again & try to listen more closely

forget about the post-rock term & all of its preassumptions
around it, ... it's just about the music, which is rather ingenious
you'll hear . . .

Either an hilarious drive-by Googler or Louis was working the bong last night.

hey someone has got directions's directions in music for me ?
can't find it on soulseeX ...

man, i think i must at least saw them like a ten-times . . . every time
they blew me & the public away . . .

oh & the term= vibraphone,
you know xylos = greek for wood (last time i tell this on the net :-) )
marimba = also on wood but has some more octaves in the down regions ...

u might have seen them perform latest times around,
with a mighty marimba lumina from buchla !
google for it & be amazed : )

i think u could call me
pro tortoise !

Information No results found for "mighty marimba lumina from buchla".
:(

buchla, the old analog vintage synthesizers branche

http://www.buchla.com/images/historical/don_and_machines.jpg

marimba lumina

http://www.buchla.com/mlumina/images/image6.gif

What the fuck...

I listened to samples back when they were topping the Wire Magazine's year end lists. I've got the albums now, and they're all fine, but underwhelming in the context of the rep they received. Many of the tracks slot in just fine with more active recent instrumental rock groups I occasionally use for ambience (An Album Leaf, Explosions in the Sky, Six Parts Seven, Tarentel, Tristeza).

The Tortoise edge over the latecomers (at least to my unpaid, unsullyed by context, and unimpressively educated ears) isn't really in the compositions, but in their wider instrumental palette.

i just picked up the ex/tortoise in the fishtank session on CD today...good stuff....i think both bands meet each other halfway pretty nicely

'Millions....' and 'TNT' are fine albums, but to me they lost it after.

Are they still around?

yep. i think they do pretty well in europe still.

buchla: http://www.vimeo.com/902069

in europe I know a few people who like them enough to put on millions occasionally, but no one who would turn out for a show.

yeah a friend of mine is sorta friends one tortoise member and i guess they get paid some pretty big dough to go play like a jazz fests overseas sometimes. like basically dude doesn't have a day job.

ive been playing Standards several times in the last couple days, and honestly I don't think it's dog poo. there are some great drum sounds on there and it's nice and accessible enough to play in the background but still worth the attention.

I love Standards.

standards is brilliant

Standards is my favorite Tortoise record, and the only one I've ever really loved. It has enough structure to keep it grounded, unlike "Djed" or something, which is interesting for about five minutes until my attention wanders.

i'm about ready for a new tortoise record. i ended up really like "it's all around you".

Their weakest album, but the material improved a hell of a lot played live.

it's prettier and more memorable than standards, i think. the best tracks from standards and iaay would make a pretty sick record.

unlike "Djed" or something, which is interesting for about five minutes until my attention wanders.

b-b-but "Djed" totally changes every few minutes! you should be the ideal audience!

be happy, rejoice: NEW TORTOISE IN APRIL.

gotta say i hate hate HATED "it's all around you." it's the only one of their albums i sold back to a store. it's like their version of that one Sonic Youth album, the one with "small flowers crack concrete" - just indefensibly weak.

P.S. It's funny how I'm all surprised upthread that people would hate on Tortoise during the circa-2000 push back against post-rocky stuff -- now that that stuff doesn't feel at issue anymore, it's genuinely hard to imagine many people caring to hate them.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/new-tortoise-album-coming-in-april-1003932126.story

the title track from "it's all around you" is great.

is the will oldham covers album worth hearing?

YES!

http://www.staticmultimedia.com/music/reviews/review_1141521087

during the circa-2000 push back against post-rocky stuff

i blame the strokes

If you take Wicker Park to be post-rock central, it was actually De Stijl that seemed to do something -- there was a season where that seemed to be playing constantly in every cafe and bar, and I definitely assumed it was as a reaction to what had been going on in the area, stuff that made the idea of the Stripes strike people as refreshing.

I saw somewhere that one of the guys from Tortoise said the new album is close, sonically, to Standards.

well if they claim it is synth heavy then that makes sense

is the will oldham covers album worth hearing?

My favorite thing by either of them. I don't have much use for Oldham, but he is incredible on almost all of these tracks.

xp i'm looking much forward to that one. may I add the final track on "It's all around you" is also an excellent, swedish prog noodle closer.

Any of you guys heard the old synthpunk band The Units?? Check out this track 'Tight Fit' from their 1980 LP and tell me it doesn't sound like a Tortoise jam.

coincidence? I've been playing Standards as of late also.
also, It's All Around You is pretty good.. it just has more of an disciplined loungey atmosphere which is why I think some people don't like it as much. They don't want disciplined... They don't want loungey...

Do I remember right that Standards was the first one they recorded fully digitally? I do feel like it has a "colder" sound than the other ones, but I think the coldness serves it well.

Stretch (You Are Alright) is a great track off It's All Around You.

HORSE HAM:

Looking forward to the new one.

Salt The Skies

one of the best live bands in the world

Total drummer's band too, ha.

There career arc mirrors stereolab quite a bit imo (though not as prolific)...

fresh, creative singles
a couple solid albums
some insane remixes
lineup tweakage
widely unpopular shift of direction

also wildly derivative as well...

ie, their mutual ability to wear then-obscure influences on their sleeves.

1996 NEVER FORGET

Pretty sure TNT was recorded on a computer.

"widely unpopular shift of direction" with original fans since Stereolab's widely unpopular shift resulted in them selling a lot more albums.

what period of stereolab do you consider the john mcentire produced records?

@shasta

i'm sure it's a mix of analog and digital...soma has a ton of analog gear, no reason not to use it.

Thread inspired me to start a Tortoise Pandora station. It's amazing how many competent post-rock bands I have never heard of!

... such as:
Tommy Guerrero
Maserati
Benevenuto & Russo Duo
The Six Parts Seven

El Ten Eleven

I never posted on this Tortoise thread, but I did gush on how much I liked them on some of the others and the big 'post rock' thread that is around here somewhere. That being said, I STILL have not gotten around to hearing their last couple of releases. Really odd considering I probably listened to their first three albums constantly for years even to now.

I can kind of understand why people don't like Tortoise, but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me, so I say classic.

I've seen them live three times and thought they were always really good band to go and check out.

That being said, it probably time to check in.

dots&loops = shift... but yeah i can see where they shifted with mars, then the groop played, then emporer... but dots was the biggest departure... thematically, popularity, critically.

but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me

Yeah, me too, actually. At the time my friends got me into Tortoise I was mainly listening to straight-ahead jazz, classical, some "classic rock" like Pink Floyd and Zeppelin, Fugazi, and old blues records. I think Tortoise and their Chicago counterparts (Isotope 217, Brokeback, Chicago Underground, Sea and Cake, etc.) got me to start thinking of music in a less compartmentalized way -- more of a sonic continuum.

what

I was like 18 or 19 years old, granted. I remember reading the back of one of the Chicago Underground albums and there was this admittedly kind of pretentious text on the back about a more unified approach to music: "Start with SOUND!" etc. But at the time it was quite mind-expanding.

boring and masturbatory.

your opinions are, yes

― earlnash ― try A Lazarus Taxon (3 cds) - so much new material (or maybe I should say rare) mixed with old classics

For me, I was playing in bad bands in the midwest around that time going seeing many of those touch & go or related kind of groups. I had seen Johnny Machine play a couple of times with the Poster Children and when I first heard about Tortoise it sounded like a pretty weird idea for a side project. But about that same time I was starting to listen to Can and Kraftwerk and then heard the first stuff on Warp records and started listening to a bunch of jazz, so going from listening to Jesus Lizard or say Slint then Tortoise started to make sense to me with the other records I was starting to listen to. Criminy it was a band by people who were doing stuff that I kind of liked who started doing some newer music that fit in with new things I was finding. Omar and Dave Q also kind of hit it up at the top of the thread.

your opinions are, yes

well, when they weren't, people were deeply offended by my comments and i got banned for some time.

i like this new song
http://pitchfork.com/forkcast/12802-prepare-your-coffin/

Pitchfork Festival appearance was dope.

Set list:

1. Seneca
2. Djed
3. Ten-Day Interval
4. Swung from the Gutters
5. Along the Banks of Rivers
6. TNT
7. The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls
8. Glass Museum

Was hoping for "I Set My Face to the Hillside," but oh well.

Whatever people say about Standards, "Seneca" is awesome live. Good band, not great, but unfairly maligned.

but to me they were a group that kind of changed my musical outlook. They were just the right kind of band heading in a different direction at the right time that really appealed to me

Yeah, me too, actually. At the time my friends got me into Tortoise I was mainly listening to straight-ahead jazz, classical, some "classic rock" like Pink Floyd and Zeppelin, Fugazi, and old blues records. I think Tortoise and their Chicago counterparts (Isotope 217, Brokeback, Chicago Underground, Sea and Cake, etc.) got me to start thinking of music in a less compartmentalized way -- more of a sonic continuum.

― Joe Bob 1 Tooth (Hurting 2), Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:45 AM (5 months ago)

Yeah, they're a reasonable gateway band into a lot of better music, for younger listeners. And my impression is they'd be happy with that--as maligned as they are for being a pastiche-of-all-things-old-and-hip, I think it's evident they're sincerely in love with music, and probably don't think they're doing something revolutionary (unlike the impression I got from hearing/reading quotes from far worse "post-rock" bands who seemed never to have heard a fucking Can or Reich or Morricone record and thought they were inventing some new dramatic language). They surely aren't ashamed of their influences.

(or at least they pretended never to have heard any "experimental" music. It's possible, as Mogwai and GSYBE and Sigur Ros and all those Constellation bands seemed to take their sense of dynamics from Smashing Pumpkins or U2 more than anything else.)

I saw Tortoise live in LA last week. They were good, absolutely. Still, when they brought out "Djed" for the encore... man, that song is still so electrifying and exciting. It accidentally made the entire rest of the show feel lazy. Like, "Oh, you can be this good? Oh." I just don't get the sense that these guys are pushing themselves as hard as they once did.

saw these guys recently, sadly they didn't play Djed. they did Seneca though and a lot of older material. i agree with pgwp above, however tight and great it was, they didn't even break a sweat. i can appreciate the art in sounding like a cd on stage, but it would be cool to see them put a little more at risk.

...and oh yeah to my big surprise i saw at least half a dozen trucker hats in the audience

Off to see these guys tonight as part of the Melb Jazz Festival. The new album is so not-typical of them (and much less jazzy than their older work) that I'm wondering what material they'll be playing!

As long as there is a load of duelling glocks I'll be happy.

or vibraphones, or whatever they are.

Have fun :)

Its in the best venue in melb too. Gorgeous old deco theatre. Totally stoked!

i'm listening to the 6th song on the directions in music album... wow.
anyone listened to this lately? i think it's aged much better than the tortoise stuff.

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:30 AM (7 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i still love this album, been listening to it a lot recently.

psyched for this Tortoise show in Minneapolis at the Walker Art Center on Friday!

http://www.walkerart.org/calendar/2012/tortoise-minneapolis-jazz-all-stars

Part of 2011-2012 Performing Arts Season

“Tortoise is one of the rare groups that defy easy classification despite their status as founding fathers of the late-’90s post-rock boom.” —Paste Magazine

Chicago’s indie legend returns to the Walker and joins some of the Twin Cities’ most influential jazz and rock innovators for an exploratory collaboration in sound and form. Unique in the world of contemporary music, Tortoise is known for its boundless intellectual curiosity and unmistakable instrumental collage of jazz, rock, electronica, dub, dance, ambient, and minimalism.
This 612-meets-312 experiment features gifted players, new ideas, and a remarkable shared musical vision. One show only: Dan Bitney, John Herndon, Douglas McCombs, John McEntire, and Jeff Parker—along with Minneapolis’ Douglas Ewart, Mike Lewis, Greg Lewis, JT Bates, and Michele Kinney—are featured in this singular performance.
The performance will be broadcast live by KFAI “Radio Without Boundaries” (90.3/106.7 FM).

^^the minneapolis dudes are all super awesome jazz guys, drummer JT Bates is just amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsGnnwYjNU

* sets Audio Hijack to catch this *

seeing them tomorrow night! sans mike lewis et al, unfort.

saw them this past Saturday, it was wicked good.

The performance will be broadcast live by KFAI “Radio Without Boundaries” (90.3/106.7 FM).

This is starting now, kfai.org

this was one of the best shows i've seen in forever!

how did it go down? mpls jazz dudes improvising on top of tortoise tunes, or?

yeah it was definitely a collaboration to the fullest...could have easily been billed as Mpls Jazz All Stars feat Tortoise

two drummers - dan bitney & jt bates

stage right was the jazz all star stage left was tortoise - mccoombs/parker on bass/guitar, herdon & mcentire on various keyboards/electronics/laptops

i didn't really recognize proper tortoise songs per se, they seemed to work off a main riff or theme and kind of all go off from there....i think i recognized some riffs from tortoise songs here and there (LOL i also realize how much i don't know ANY tortoise song titles except for djed)....then they did a encore of "galapagos" which mccoombs said that the jazz guys didn't know and they hadn't practiced but it went off well..

mike & greg lewis were both great....never seen ewart and goddam he was the fucking BOMB, also dressed so fucking "jazz guy" - flowing african v-neck style kinda tie-dyed looking shirt, beret, and neat beard, so cool....but yeah he's a great player

surprise was michele kinney who i wasn't familiar with but she was great...

jordan - does your ILM mail work? I have a link that, shall we say, might be of interest :)

it does!

cool, sent! let me know what you think, but it's sounding just a good in the harsh light of monday morning

thanks man! can't download at work but i'll check it out tonight, looking forward to it.

wow could I also have that link?

One of my issues with Tortoise has been that for all their individual talents, they don't really improvise live. So it's exciting to hear they're at least trying to push themselves a little, belatedly.

yeah i really enjoyed seeing them last week but it seemed, i don't know, a little rote. they covered all the parts but i was hoping that they'd let jeff parker off the leash a little or get into more double-drummer fire.

just about ten minutes in, but yeah sounding great! thanks m@tt

hurting - check you ILX mail :)

josh you want the link?

i'd be happy to take a link!

some photos here

http://www.reviler.org/2012/05/07/photos-tortoise-minneapolis-jazz-all-stars-at-walker-art-center/

nice. looks like herndon on drums btw.

Tortoise + guests Festival Sons d'Hiver Creteil 2013.23.02 Maisons des Arts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwL74stwgQY

The last twenty minutes are really nice, Tortoise minimal music style...I wonder if this is new work?

New album, The Catastrophist, out in January. From the press release:

It’s an album where moody, synth-swept jams like the opening title track cozy up next to hypnotic, bass-and-beat missives like “Shake Hands With Danger,” a downright strange cover of David Essex’s 1973 radio smash, “Rock On,” sung by U.S. Maple/Dead Rider’s Todd Rittmann, and the bittersweet, honest-to-goodness soul ballad “Yonder Blue,” sung by Yo La Tengo’s Georgia Hubley.

I'm enthusiastic. "Gesceap" doesn't sound like a significant change in sound but that's okay with me. Tortoise have matured into a very dependable, still unique band.

I'm a little sceptical of vocals over tortoise tracks, but I like gesceap

lol what -- the new album includes a downright strange cover of David Essex’s 1973 radio smash, “Rock On,” sung by U.S. Maple/Dead Rider’s Todd Rittmann

actually come to think of it the record they did with BPB was not bad, maybe I'll revisit

I was just thinking abt how much I wish I could see them live again like a week ago and my desire has manifested a new song and a tour! Thank you power of positive thinking!!!!

was "rock on" really a radio smash, or is that just one of those things publicists say? am i supposed to know this song? i know "shake hands with danger". was that a radio hit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSucj0XKmHk

Looks like they're going to be on the road enticingly close to the Big Ears dates next year. Wouldn't be surprised to see them booked for that.

'rock on' got to number 5 in the US apparently. it's a song worth knowing imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pYwtq8gZ3Y

the new song is good!

Straight out of 1996, which works for me.

"Rock On" is one of the stupidest songs ever recorded

Rock On is great, can't see Tortoise topping the Toni Basil version, though

Rock On is stupid it's true, but it's a *great* stupid song, also a really weird sounding song too

oh, i've heard that song. it's just one of those songs that's too generic for me to bother remembering. thanks!

and yeah, if we start disqualifying songs for being stupid marc bolan's entire career goes out the window. not that david essex is exactly marc bolan...

kind of seems like he was trying to convince himself he was

if 'rock on' is that generic then i would love some suggestions of similarly weird stripped-down funk that sounds like it's swimming in a bucket of glue. closest thing i can think of is john martyn's 'big muff'?

...which i guess is what tortoise were picking up on - think they're JM fans?

If Tortoise + a guy from US Maple do a straightforward cover of "Rock On," I will be shocked. I think it's pretty safe to withhold judgement of their song choice.

http://secondhandsongs.com/performance/48628/all

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jan/15/tortoise-the-catastrophist-exclusive-album-stream

I have a copy of this, but I'm having trouble mustering the energy to listen to it. I can't even tell you the name of the last two or three albums, at least nothing since Standards.

i think it's good! georgia hubley track is wonderful ... not totally sold on the "rock on" cover.

leaning heavily on McEntire's modular synths on this one, huh?

really hate the cover art

don't love the title either, usually they have great album titles

can't say I love this on first listen, it's fine but it doesn't feel like they've gone anywhere for the last couple of albums.

yeah the cover's a little unfortunate.
kinda dig some of the mid-to-late-70s herbie hancockisms on a few tracks.

this went in both ears and then out one or the other, but it makes me want to go listen to the last two. there are definitely some great ideas on It's All Around You.

the cover is gross

i have been enjoying listening to the recording well enough but would rather see them live

yeah! just saw that they are coming through denver in may -- i think i will go. i haven't seen tortoise since 1998!
look at all these tour dates

Sat. Jan. 23 - Chicago, IL @ Thalia Hall [In The Round performance] (early & late show) — SOLD OUT
Sun. Jan. 24 – Milwaukee, WI @ Mad Planet [Tix]
Sun. Feb. 7 - Copenhagen, DK @ Vega Jr. [Tix] *^
Mon. Feb. 8 - Hamburg, DE @ Fabrik [Tix] *^
Tue. Feb. 9 - Berlin, DE @ Berghain *^ - SOLD OUT
Wed. Feb. 10 - Antwerpen, BE @ Trix *^
Thu. Feb. 11 - Utrecht, NL @ Tivoli [Tix] *^
Fri. Feb. 12 - St. Gallen, CH @ Palace *^^ [Tix]
Sat. Feb. 13 - Geneva, CH @ Antigel Festival *
Sun. Feb. 14 - Zürich, CH @ Stall 6 ^^ [Tix]
Mon. Feb. 15 - Reutlingen, DE @ Franz.K [Tix] *
Tue. Feb. 16 - Vienna, AT @ Arena *^ [Tix]
Wed. Feb. 17 - Budapest, HU @ A 38 [Tix]*
Thu. Feb. 18 - Zagreb, HR @ Mochvara*
Fri. Feb. 19 - Bologna, IT @ Locomotiv Club* [Tix]
Sat. Feb. 20 - Rome, IT @ Monk Club* [Tix]
Sun. Feb. 21 - Milan, IT @ Magnolia Club* [Tix]
Mon. Feb. 22 - Istanbul, TR @ CRR Concert Hall
Tue. Feb. 23 - London, UK @ Village Underground * - SOLD OUT
Wed. March 9 - Minneapolis, MN @ The Cedar Cultural Center # [Tix]
Fri. March 11 - Ann Arbor, MI @ The Blind Pig # [Tix]
Sat. March 12 - Toronto, ON @ Lee’s Palace # [Tix]
Sun. March 13 - Montreal, QC @ Fairmount # [Tix]
Mon. March 14 - Northampton, MA @ Iron Horse # [Tix]
Tue. March 15 - Cambridge, MA @ The Sinclair # [Tix]
Wed. March 16 - New York, NY @ (Le) Poisson Rouge # [Tix]
Thu. March 17 - Brooklyn, NY @ Littlefield # [Tix]
Fri. March 18 - Philadelphia, PA @ Underground Arts # [Tix]
Sat. March 19 - Washington, DC @ Black Cat # [Tix]
Sun. March 20 – Charlottesville, VA @ The Southern # [Tix]
Mon. March 21 – Asheville, NC @ The Orange Peel # [Tix]
Tue. March 22 - Louisville, KY @ Headliners Music Hall # [Tix]
Wed. March 23 - Newport, KY @ Southgate House Revival # [Tix]
Thu. March 24 - Indianapolis, IN @ Radio Radio # [Tix]
Tue. April 26 - Boise, ID @ Radio Boise Tuesday [Tix]
Wed. April 27 - Seattle, WA @ The Crocodile [Tix]
Thu. April 28 - Vancouver, BC @ Imperial [Tix]
Fri. April 29 - Portland, OR @ Revolution Hall [Tix]
Sat. April 30 - Sonoma, CA @ Sonoma Winery / Redwood Barn [Tix]
Sun. May 1 - San Francisco, CA @ Great American Music Hall [Tix]
Mon. May 2 - Los Angeles, CA @ Teragram Ballroom [Tix]
Tue. May 3 - Solana Beach @ Belly Up [Tix]
Wed. May 4 – Phoenix AZ @ Desert Daze Phoenix at Crescent Ballroom
Fri. May 6 - Austin, TX @ Mohawk [Tix]
Sun. May 8 - Dallas, TX @ Dada [Tix]
Mon. May 9 - St. Louis, MO @ The Ready Room [Tix]
Tue. May 10 - Chicago, IL @ Metro [Tix]
Wed. May 11 - Lawrence, KS @ Granada Theater [Tix]
Thu. May 12 - Denver, CO @ Bluebird [Tix]
Fri. May 13 - Salt Lake City, UT @ Urban Lounge [Tix]
Sat. May 14 - Albuquerque, NM @ Launchpad
Fri. May 27 - Torino, IT @ Cap10100
Sat. May 28 - Brescia, IT @ Latteria Molloy
Sun. May 29 - Munich, DE @ Feierwerk [Tix]
Mon. May 30 - Frankfurt, DE @ Das Bett [Tix]
Tue. May 31 - Paris, FR @ TBA
Wed. June 1 - Koln, DE @ Kulturkirche
Thu. June 2 - Besancon, FR @ La Rodia
Sun. June 5 - Nimes, FR @ This Is Not A Love Song Festival
Mon. June 6 - Toulouse, FR - Metronum
Wed. June 8 - Metz, FR @ Les Trinitaires
Thu. June 9 Tourcoing, FR @ Le Grand Mix
Fri. July 3 - Keflavik, IS @ Asbru (ATP Iceland) [Tix]
Tue. July 5 - Berlin, DE @ Columbia Theater

* w/ Sam Prekop
^ w/ Blondie Brownie
^^ w/ Little Tornados
# w/ Mind Over Mirrors

SOLD OUT ;_;

another chicago show on may 10 though!

they're playing in Madison on March 10 too.

I agree there was stuff that interested me on It's All Around You. It was really mostly the last one that lost me, and even that had Gigantes, which I thought was a great track.

Hmm, seeing them at Poisson Rouge or Littlefield is tempting.

What's the story on the cover? Whose photo? I don't find it too offensive..

I assumed it was collaged from the band members faces, but i may well be wrong

i liked some of the oneida-aping on their last one. and i was just listening this morning to a disco single by someone named "paul atreides" that reminded me of their '98 tour single.

that said i'm not sure i feel like committing the time to listening to this right now. maybe in a few months.

"Rock On" cover is a slog. Is it supposed to be funny?

The whole album is sloggy and unmemorable, imo.

"Flabby" is the word that came to my mind.

They sound closer to their weaker postrock imitators than they used to.

Listening to this on Spotify and the "Rock On" cover is not part of the album.

New album´s a good excuse to check out related projects as Brokeback, Matana Roberts' Chicago Project and The Mercury Project.

there's a song near the end with some singing that's a bit dull, but otherwise I think this is pretty good, fairly similar to the last one, which is ok by me

Last few Brokeback albums >>> Last few Tortoise albums

Brokeback are still at it?

(I tuned out after someone else joined the band; see also, Zomes.)

I have a promo of this and plan to review it at some point once I've given it a fair airing.

I think it's their best in a while but nowhere near their best. Their best albums had a sense of moment and purpose - a deliberateness and a stridency, even when they felt laid back. After "Standards" this kinda faded (though I returned to IAAY a while ago and it was better than I remembered). This new one feels like they're finally grasping for purpose again but aren't sure how to get there.

(And if I can see them on this tour I will)

I really like ROCK ON.

brokeback played free monday at the empty bottle last night with golden void
i wanted to go but it was the night before my first class of the semester, ie a terrible idea/time to go out

Brokeback are still at it?

(I tuned out after someone else joined the band; see also, Zomes.)

― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 26 January 2016 02:36 (17 hours ago) Permalink

I think Doug had shelved it for a few yrs, but they've been active since 2010. They just finished recording another record a week or so ago.

I think it's their best in a while but nowhere near their best. Their best albums had a sense of moment and purpose - a deliberateness and a stridency, even when they felt laid back. After "Standards" this kinda faded (though I returned to IAAY a while ago and it was better than I remembered). This new one feels like they're finally grasping for purpose again but aren't sure how to get there.

I've said this before (maybe even in this thread?) but I don't think it's an accident that Tortoise's early years—when they felt a lot more unpredictable—coincided with an unstable lineup. Bundy Brown in and then out. Pajo in for an album, also contributing a lot to TNT. Parker coming in late in the making of TNT, plus the modest influence/presence of Rob Mazurek—that's all Tortoise in the 90s. Starting with Standards the lineup totally stabilized and that's when Tortoise really nailed down their aesthetic and became a lot more predictable.

I don't necessarily mind—to this day, no one really sounds like Tortoise. And their stew of influences feels less obvious now than it once did. They just sound like themselves. I have a playlist that gathers all their albums (plus most of their side projects) and it makes a great and pleasurable listening experience on shuffle. New album will add to that—won't really enhance nor detract. But that's okay.

Yeah, it wasn't bad or exciting. I want to give it a try on my car's bose surround-sound though. I'm thinking the bass needs to be felt.

What struck me as odd was some of the geeky keyboard(?) sounds at the end of the album which fit perfectly with the dorky album photograph. It was odd because it wasn't anything I wanted to hear.

Let me rephrase that. It's odd because they purposely mixed dorky into those last few tracks

Just saw these dudes last week, and it was one of the most dull concerts I've ever been to.

Ah, don't tell me that! Got cajoled into accompanying some friends to see them in a few weeks. Said friends are superfans. I'm more an 'appreciator' than a fan, though I loved TNT back in the day.

ha yeah i was thinking about seeing them in a couple months. last time I saw Tortoise was ... 1998?

My biggest issue I've had with Tortoise see the wee early days here is that they just don't improvise at all. They're all great players, but they're like a chamber group sticking to the script. It can be kind of a bummer.

I never loved them... more respected them. I pretty much prefer all their other projects to Tortoise, but was somehow not expecting something so... boring. I've never before felt a compulsion to leave a concert as strong as I did at this one. Very disappointing. Curious to see if anyone else has had a similar reaction. Was this one just a bad show?

the no improvising thing is kinda surprising since Jeff Parker has now been in the band so long. I've never seen them since he joined actually. i suppose he puts all in improv energy into other projects.

tbh and fwiw, I've never liked Parker's playing

millions of lemmings can't be wrong

I saw them on the tour for Beacons and thought it was good but not amazing. Then they played "Djed" and it was pretty outstanding - and I don't feel like it was just nostalgia. More that it underlined how ambitious they'd once been.

millions of now lemmings can't will never be wrong

― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, March 18, 2016 2:35 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've seen them a few times. They were pretty good when I saw them at a Thrill Jockey anniversary show at I think Bowery Ballroom, although somehow I feel like everything they do would work better live if it was just a little tighter and more intense, especially in light of not improvising -- it always feels ambitious but falling short, like there's this weird tension between fussiness and not giving a fuck among the band members.

The last time I saw them was at a Bang on a Can marathon and they were terrible -- they were like accidentally knocking over instruments, they handled the poor acoustics of the room really badly, and the tightness of all the musicians who proceeded them made them come off as extra sloppy.

Saw them in Mpls, first time ever, and enjoyed it. Lack of improvisation doesn't bother me, but there were a few spots where the playing was definitely more laborious / not as tight as I'd expected. The guitar was off the beat on "Yonder Blue" (kind of unraveled a song that should sound effortless) and John McEntire seemed to be working really hard to maintain a pretty simple hammering rhythm on "Shake Hands with Danger." That said I found his style compelling. I like when a drummer overplays the seriousness of his task. The band's other two drummers are looser, more dynamic, really impressive.

I think McEntire is such a great drummer that he has spent most of his career trying to perform like a lesser talented drummer, to sometimes awkward effect/affect.

I definitely enjoy Bitney and Herndon more. McEntire is great but uptight.

Herndon is the funkiest one, right? I really dig his drumming in 5ive Style.

I always thought Ryan Rapsys from Euphone would've been a great fit for Tortoise. Monster drummer, super underappreciated. Dude can play circles around McEntire and Co.

I forget that Tortoise used to be quite an interesting band at one point. Always thought Standards was a fantastic album and kind of pre-empts the whole Dawn of Midi / Girls in Airports / Go Go Penguin style of nu-jazz-electronica.

Cosign. Really I like all of their albums through It's All Around You (which itself I think had some foreshadowing of chill wave and sea punk) and even Beacons had a few moments.

live recording over here: http://www.nyctaper.com/2016/03/tortoise-march-17-2016-littlefield/

Dawn of Midi / Girls in Airports / Go Go Penguin/sea punk

Haha, I don't know what any of this means! Thanks, google. Well, more or less, because I still don't get sea punk as a concept, sound, look or idea. Do they sing about pirates?

being kind of have facetious about seapunk, but that record definitely used some repurposed 90s tacky synth sounds, and that sort of thing became all the rage like 8-10 years later.

Dawn of Midi and GIA are definitely worth everybody's time. GIA are fast turning into one of my favourite bands of the moment.

Huh, having listened to a bit I can see why you'd bring GIA up in a Tortoise thread. I guess I hear a little more ... ECM, maybe, in them, though.

Check out the album, Kaikoura. It's a grower.

xps - best tortoise drummer is def whichever one of them did the phasered beats on "seneca" and the breakdown of "monica". sweet pockets and sonics.

Man, I've really gotten into Standards lately for some reason...

Standards is a really good record! It really has a *sound*, maaaaaaan

I LOVE "Monica".

Yah, "Monica" is the clear jam. "Seneca," too.

Gonna put on Standards now, haven't listened to it in a while

I think they were probably at their tightest on that record

This is better than the new Tortoise album.

http://intlanthem.bandcamp.com/album/get-dressed

weird

As I said upthread, I've always been more an appreciator than major fan (always loved TNT, felt pretty OK with that being the only one I needed to own), but lately I've been revisiting and reevaluating in a pretty big way. Standards just clicked for me recently, and that Lazarus Taxon box has some incredible stuff (alongside the expected non-essential box set-y stuff) on it too.

Not sure if Poliopolice upthread saw them on this tour on an "off" night, but I thought they were excellent when I saw them a week or so ago. I also found myself marveling at what is actually required to play the vibraphone; surely it is, like the pedal steel, one of the most impossible instruments to master, no? I mean, you sorta need equal facility with rhythm and melody. Like, you probably need to have serious drum chops and also know theory and stuff, right? So, just the fact that 3/5 of the band is able to do this seems pretty unlikely / incredible.

I realize I am about twenty years late in talking "instrument prowess" in relation to Tortoise (I recall snoozing through many conversations like this in the nineties), but I dunno, I think I'm maybe just ready for Tortoise now or something.

I revisited It's All Around You and it's actually even better than I remembered it -- it flows like a perfect DJ mix.

I need to catch up with all the stuff between Standards and The Catastrophist. I may have heard those records when they came out, but don't remember actually, you know, listening to them.

Also, I'm probably in the minority here, but I think of the three guitarists, Parker is my favorite (at least in terms of Tortoise members, not necessarily outside of that)

I love Parker with Tortoise and Isotope and sometimes with other groups. He's uneven. I feel like he sounds like he doesn't practice enough for what he tries to do, which describes a lot of those guys.

Lots of Tortoise vibes on the upcoming Jeff Parker album.

Not vibes as in -raphones, I take it?

For vibraphones, check this album where Parker also plays on.

In the run up to the US election, Tortoise Twittered/Facebooked "If you're voting Trump, destroy your Tortoise albums" [I'm paraphrasing].

The response from their "fans" made me less surprised at the outcome of the election than I might otherwise have been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roYvd11z0AM

Keep meaning to pick this up. It's a tad pricey. His most recent album didn't knock me out, but I guess this is an entirely different thing?

It sounds good. I'd buy it straight away if it was on CD ...

Djed is absolutely wonderful, three or four amazing tracks in one. I wish even half their other stuff was like that, but it leaves me very cold indeed.

Vaguely related but I've been listening to the Bundy Brown Directions in Music a fair bit recently. One of those records I've had for donkey's, but never fully kind of 'owned' if you know what I mean. I think it's partly because, on the surface, it seems to be a fairly minor exercise, the product of 3 days in a studio with a bunch of (very talented) like-minded musicians. But under all that are some seriously engaging atmospherics, and what feels like a world of unexplored potential. It's great. And, hey, Mogwai got a career out of it, so that's something, I suppose.

that's a record i've had since it came out and go back to all the time. i think it's great and not in a particularly minor way. i prefer it to any tortoise or mogwai album.

Djed is absolutely wonderful, three or four amazing tracks in one. I wish even half their other stuff was like that, but it leaves me very cold indeed.

Ever heard "Gamera"?

"Gamera" continues with "Goriri" on the flip-side of that 12", one of my favorite things they've ever done.

Sorry, I meant "Cliff Dweller Society." Kind of evokes Mingus. It's also available on All Tomorrow's Parties 1.0 CD.

It's on A Lazarus Taxon as well. One of the best things they ever did IMO, along with "Djed."

I just don't get the sense that these guys are pushing themselves as hard as they once did

- -

Their best albums had a sense of moment and purpose - a deliberateness and a stridency, even when they felt laid back

been listening to TNT and enjoying myself, but kind of feeling like it's the same old thing it always was, with nothing new to reveal (because they were never concealing any hidden depths, it was all right out front with them). my sense now though is that so much of the charm of their first three albums came from how adventitious it all seemed, that they could combine or meld so many things in a purposeful way that was never less than relaxed. that would explain a lot of the criticisms of them, especially re predecessors who did more better, or parallel and uncontestably superior efforts at e.g. post-dub studio-as-instrument music not constrained by their indie ethos. so much of that music would do similar things in an audibly challenging way, so that you could hear the musicians trying to do something that turned out to be unconventional and standard-setting. i'm thinking of, i don't know, 90s brit-style post-rock, or eno-inspired post-punk, or krautrock or such. or in a similar way, you could hear music akin to theirs but in which the musicians really let themselves go, or get lost. ('they don't improvise' is another way of noting that, since you would expect given the way they sound, that there would be loads and loads of live recordings somewhere where they do nothing BUT.)

anyway, that's not how it is with them. i want to say that you could imagine their music to have a zen-like quality that explains a lot of the above characteristics, but even that seems too tryhard and precise for their mode of music-making. more like taoist, with the proviso that it's the compositions - like nabisco said upthred - where they're really doing their work, since you would think that it would be hella easier for a band with a more improvisational practice to be obviously taoist.

prog had been so effectively negged that here comes the soft machine and it's just like new

aerial m > tortoise

I think maybe Tortoise just kinda took their concept as far as they could. They would need greater compositional and/or instrumental chops to take things in a more "advanced" direction, and I don't think that's really their steez anyway. Also I think music has kind of caught up with them and their sort of omnivorous approach to influences became increasingly common.

Standards was their peak. IAAY was a decent follow up but felt like a case of diminishing returns, style-wise - going through the motions.

Still a 'buy on sight' band for me. Thought The Catastrophist was excellent.

They really haven't hada bad album, but I wouldn't expect them to suddenly do something new or surprising. That's ok with me though.

My issue with them has always been the lack of improvisation. Maybe they did it more early on, iirc, when they were still figuring things out - I saw them a ton where every show would sort of have a different setup - but after Millions in particular they kind of focused hard on sticking to the arrangements, which kind of irked me, because the dudes all have chops, and a couple of them have serious jazz/improv chops, too. Haven't paid attention to them for a while because of that, but if ever a band seemed designed to wander off script it's these guys.

been listening to TNT and enjoying myself, but kind of feeling like it's the same old thing it always was, with nothing new to reveal (because they were never concealing any hidden depths, it was all right out front with them). my sense now though is that so much of the charm of their first three albums came from how adventitious it all seemed, that they could combine or meld so many things in a purposeful way that was never less than relaxed. that would explain a lot of the criticisms of them, especially re predecessors who did more better, or parallel and uncontestably superior efforts at e.g. post-dub studio-as-instrument music not constrained by their indie ethos. so much of that music would do similar things in an audibly challenging way, so that you could hear the musicians trying to do something that turned out to be unconventional and standard-setting. i'm thinking of, i don't know, 90s brit-style post-rock, or eno-inspired post-punk, or krautrock or such. or in a similar way, you could hear music akin to theirs but in which the musicians really let themselves go, or get lost. ('they don't improvise' is another way of noting that, since you would expect given the way they sound, that there would be loads and loads of live recordings somewhere where they do nothing BUT.)

anyway, that's not how it is with them. i want to say that you could imagine their music to have a zen-like quality that explains a lot of the above characteristics, but even that seems too tryhard and precise for their mode of music-making. more like taoist, with the proviso that it's the compositions - like nabisco said upthred - where they're really doing their work, since you would think that it would be hella easier for a band with a more improvisational practice to be obviously taoist.

― j., Monday, March 12, 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The other thing to note, and I might have said this upthread some time back - is that their first three albums also had line-up changes. First Bundy Brown, who was an influential member of the group at the beginning, and then David Pajo, whose guitar sound is a definitive quality of Millions and who participated in at least the beginning of TNT. Jeff Parker came in midway through that album. Standards was their first alum with him from the very start of the process; I don't think it's a coincidence that their sound became a lot more consistent/predictable from that point forward. (Also they stopped with the serious engagement with electronica and remix culture around the time of Standards and I don't know why, or if that's related too. Certainly their more explicit move toward jazz was influenced by Parker.)

I vehemently disagree with the idea that what they need to do is improvise or cut loose...they all have chops, it would be the easiest thing in the world for them to jam or solo, and the last thing I want to hear. The restraint and emphasis on composition is what made them special imo. TNT still has a lot of magic for me.

Also I think music has kind of caught up with them and their sort of omnivorous approach to influences became increasingly common.

This I agree with, their particular influences sort of feel like a limitation these days rather than a source of inspiration. It would be cool if there was a sense of engagement with more recent music while still being Tortoise-y (or maybe it's just that they've written all their best melodies already).

I always felt like their "Steve Reich influence" in particular was kind of half-assed, and maybe if they really studied Steve Reich they could do something more interesting with that.

Strictly in terms of Tortoise (and cannot overstate this qualifier enough): Parker >>> Pajo = Bundy

I once saw Tortoise close out the Bang on a Can marathon, and while I've usually enjoyed them live, seeing them follow all the much more highly trained and polished musicians playing actual Steve Reich compositions and various other "new music" stuff made them look extremely sloppy.

It's all just very ... surface, from the Reich riffs to the Ennio Morricone stuff and so on. The compositions, basically, and the arrangements, which wouldn't be such heavy anchors if they allowed themselves to cut loose a little. Think of the way a group like Can is able to stretch and explore their ideas. I wish Tortoise could do that. Or would do that.

I wish anyone would do would do that, preferably with me!!

Standards is their best album

(Also they stopped with the serious engagement with electronica and remix culture around the time of Standards and I don't know why, or if that's related too

Huh? Always heard it as their most electronic-sounding album

I listened to TNT a lot in '98-'99. thought it was soundtrack Muzak then, and when I listened to it again a few days ago after someone wrote about its 20th anniversary, it still sounds like Muzak to me. Good Muzak. It's like reading some Waxpoetics piece about bland fusoid jazz albums that are now considered "neglected classics" or listening to someone tell me that John Barry and Morricone are "great composers." Morricone did have his moments as did Barry (Barry's Boom ST is pretty good).

I listened to TNT a lot in '98-'99. thought it was soundtrack Muzak then, and when I listened to it again a few days ago after someone wrote about its 20th anniversary, it still sounds like Muzak to me. Good Muzak. It's like reading some Waxpoetics piece about bland fusoid jazz albums that are now considered "neglected classics" or listening to someone tell me that John Barry and Morricone are "great composers." Morricone did have his moments as did Barry (Barry's Boom ST is pretty good).

sorry for the duplicate post, folks, I musta hit the wrong button.

why are you so reluctant to improvise

Morricone bores me tbh. Tortoise's ersatz Morricone > Morricone. And it's still probably my least favorite part of Tortoise.

Morricone bores me tbh. Tortoise's ersatz Morricone > Morricone. And it's still probably my least favorite part of Tortoise.

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, March 12, 2018 5:25 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my feelings exactly, glad someone had the guts to say this.

I always want Morricone soundtracks to sound more like Paris, Texas and I'm always disappointed

I even bought that Ipecac comp of 'weird' Morricone material curated by Alan Bishop, hoping for a gateway, but the constant annoying sex noises made me want to fling the CD from the moving car

Not sure that took "guts", exactly

Oh come on, Morricone is a sacred cow of sacred cows (even if my suspicion is that more people cite him than listen to him)

the paris texas soundtrack is the fountainhead of shit hokey guitar americana

nah

who else are you going to pin it on

Ry Cooder is a guy I feel similarly meh about.

He's an incredible player who has recorded really no solo material I want to listen to. Morricone, on the other hand ...

xp well, if we're talking the past twenty years or so, John Fahey is probably responsible for a lot more subsequent guitar mediocrity than Cooder.

I guess both of those guys' styles are easy for intermediate guitarists to superficially imitate. You don't hear a lot of young guitar players aspiring to sound like Fripp or Ribot or Michael Hedges

Sorry for the digression here!

Michael Hedges is fucking terrible so there's that

I mean if ppl are gonna shit on Fahey then diss kids for not wanting to be the Jaco version of Fahey

despite his rep v few people have a clue what Fahey was even up to, & the best known slices of what he did have largely been influential on the culture at the "damn fingerpicking in open tunings creates such a sweet vibe!" level and the ensuing mediocrity is really nothing to do with him.

how it functions as a soundtrack is a separate discussion, but paris texas is v much all about summoning up that sweet atmosphere, so however clumsily it's aped, there's less to misunderstand. this reminds me of the deliciously not-wrong-but- review of jack rose's red horse, white mule which compared his cover of dark was the night to the paris texas soundtrack

I even bought that Ipecac comp of 'weird' Morricone material curated by Alan Bishop, hoping for a gateway, but the constant annoying sex noises made me want to fling the CD from the moving car

― Paul Ponzi

i wasn't really nuts about that bishop comp

the hard thing about dismissing morricone is that he's done so much stuff that it's hard to genuinely claim one's heard enough to say he's no good

if he was better wouldn't he have done stuff everyone would know to be good despite the volume

if walt rockman was any good he could psychically project his best songs into everybody's mind instead of having them buried on records nobody heard for decades

I mean if ppl are gonna shit on Fahey then diss kids for not wanting to be the Jaco version of Fahey

― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:04 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think you misunderstand me--I'm definitely not shitting on Fahey. I'm suggesting his style is not especially difficult to ape compared to some other guitarists I named at random whose music is singular and instantly recognizable the moment you hear it (whether you like it or not).

and give me the "Jaco version of Fahey" over inept indie rockers mangling ragas and "country blues" any day

I'm listening to michael hedges properly for the first time & I would like to formally curse ilx

Fahey is almost like a theoretical virtuoso. Ry Cooder is a real virtuoso, but not that interesting to me. The Brits like the Pentangle or Fairport folks, there's some virtuoso for you, on point *and* on theme.

But then, I always thought Jim O'Rourke a sham and fraud. So ...

what's a theoretical virtuoso? like... a composer?

Like, Fahey's big thing is often emulating the spirit of all these old blues guys. So it's less that he has to be a flashy player and more that he must capture that sort of primitive vibe. Like playing a character as much as playing the guitar.

ha yeah, he is much more interested in character/poses/drama/performance/irony etc. than his emulators, who are largely aiming at copying the scenery

thinking about it, i think pajo is a better guitarist than all the other guys we've mentioned

based on what? (I like Pajo)

I bit of what I reckonry, but with Cooder/Fahey it's like the difference between the picturesque and the sublime: the former is safe, soothing and maternal, the latter is Other, dangerous, disturbing. Both equally valid, like, but only one is truly imitable.

Fwiw, I think Tortoise are more the former.

And Jim O'Rourke is kind of fraud, I think (and wouldn't mind be called on it), but he's like David Byrne or someone, where they come so close to the line it actually ceases to matter.

Fwiw, I think Tortoise are more the former.

It's not like they named a song on their first album "Ry Cooder" or anything.

xxp all the others besides Fahey, obviously, I'm not being absurd. Pajo is quietly original and distinctive in his harmonies, tunings and phrasing, and his low-key greatness is attested by his facility for gorgeous elliptical melodies & counter melodies, and he occasionally gets to those moments of joyous heart-bursting immediacy that are worth more than Good Guitarists' whole careers

JOR is very mannered and arch and composerly and sort of hideously superficial but I like him anyway

JOR, man, that guy...no comment. I've now listened to TNT four or five times after basically not hearing it for over a decade. I think it only seems profound, it's wallpaper, but there are moments I adore. Miles, Jon Hassell, David Behrman, they cut them to shreds, though.

Serious question: would you know who Hassell and Behrman (and possibly even Miles) were if you had't heard Tortoise first? I ask because I will freely admit that a lot of this post rock stuff was a gateway for me to dub, fusion, and lots of other music that I listen obsessively to today. I'm sure I was aware of Miles Davis before Tortoise, and might have even heard Kind of Blue or something, but that feeling I got when I heard IASW for the first time and thought "ohhhhh...so this is where it all comes from" might not have ever happened if I didn't read in an Isotope 217 review that that Miles record was a major touchstone for all those Chicago guys

Ditto latest ILX punching bag Jim O'Rourke, without whom I wouldn't know Tony Conrad, Folke Rabe, Loren Connors, possibly Fahey, etc

While I would definitely rather listen to Jon Hassell or Miles than Tortoise or Gastr Del Sol (Behrman not so much), I think the idea that they "cut them to shreds" is maybe overstating it a bit

Tortoise has hooks, though. And beats. That's why it's much less wallpaper-y than what I've heard of Jon Hassell. And why it holds up better than an Isotope 217 or Chicago Underground Duo record. The idea of someone soloing over their music is, like, gross to me.

Jordan otm. I can hum every tune on TNT and I haven't heard the damn thing in over a decade

miles davis is one of the greatest musicians of all time

tortoise made a few nice timely records

Paul, I heard Hassell, Miles, Behrman, Morricone, Reich waaay before I heard Tortoise, whose music hasn't led me to one single thing. To me, Tortoise is an afterthought, sincere young fellows trying to make their nice little demi-fusion thing or whatever that is, and without the balls of the best fusion stuff, or jazz. I like TNT, and it does have some hooks for sure. I think it's a triumph of editing and trimming for sure. To my ears Jon Hassel's stuff is way richer, way less concerned with superficial aspects of music like "hooks," and just plain deeper--his Bluescreen stuff is as kinetic as the music he's imitating or lifting from, wheras Tortoise is...more pallid, suburban, kinda neurotic in a way. This is part of my whole disagreement with post rock--for sure I worked my way backwards from, say, Mahavishnu Ork to Duke Ellington, but at the same time I knew plenty about real jazz--Ellington, 'Trane, Parker, Armstrong, Earl Hines, Basie, Ornette--when I was sitting around grooving to Birds of Fire and whatever the fuck it was, King Crimson or some such thing. My generation, at least, knew about the stuff; and I think the post rockers were just too damned clean, too convinced they were onto something that transcended the dirty old world of jazz and rock. I can't take it very seriously, but as I say, TNT is a record I still quite enjoy, perhaps partly for nostalgic reasons.

superficial aspects of music like "hooks,"

Oh no you did not

Morricone bores me tbh. Tortoise's ersatz Morricone > Morricone. And it's still probably my least favorite part of Tortoise.

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, March 12, 2018 5:25 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dude do you even know how many soundtracks Morricone has released? in different styles? it's not all speghetti western harmonicats

Ry Cooder is a guy I feel similarly meh about.

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, March 12, 2018 5:16 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there's something really conspiratorial about the omnipresence of ry cooder.. like what is the point of ry cooder records? who are they for? sorry, ry.

I assume much of this is generational (I was born in the mid-80s). Like Paul, I heard TNT and Millions Now Living Will Never Die before I started obsessively exploring Miles Davis' discography or delving into krautrock and the like. I was vaguely aware of their existence (mostly thanks to my dad, who occasionally listened to pre-Bitches Brew Miles and later Ash Ra Tempel when I was a kid), but they felt more alien to me than Tortoise, whose relative primness had a didactic quality (cue the thread about 'record collection rock' that was revived a month ago or so), which I suppose is precisely what irritates some of you. Anyway, I do feel like that cleanliness is part of the point. The muzakification is a strategy (doesn't matter whether it's conscious or not) meant to bring out the extent to which these once 'vital instances of spontaneously innovative genius' are now commodities, in line with all the rest, and emphasizing their status as a now-reproducible stock of gestures can actually be quite touching in its own right. I don't really listen to Tortoise anymore but I do think back on the aforementioned albums quite fondly.

I think it's key that Tortoise's prime coincided with the golden age of reissues and boxed sets. Everything from Krautrock to weird folk to out jazz suddenly became not just available but promoted by labels as Something You Need to Hear (often because said labels did not promote it the first time around).

xpost Well, I suppose in the '70s he was a bit of a "roots" curator - later, too, with the likes of V.M. Bhatt, Ali Farka Toure and Buena Vista, when his role was more explicitly to introduce people to stuff they hadn't heard. As a sideman, he's an ace, playing with Randy Newman, Beefheart, the Stones (he taught Keith about open G, iirc), and as a historian he's pretty cool, too. A cult figure, to be sure, but one of those "glue that holds things together" sorts. There are some great interviews where he goes into depth on, for example, Blind WIllie Johnson, Blind Blake, and Robert Johnson, who, per the importance curation, was barely compiled before the 1990 comp, iirc. Before everything from Harry Smith's comps to collections of random '78s started getting re-released, the stuff Cooder was drawing from was pretty underground and obscure, I want to say, outlets outside of hardcore blues/folk players and collector circles.

So yeah, I don't listen to him or want to, but he served/serves a role.

You could probably slot him alongside peer and likeminded kook David Lindley.

I heard all the jazz stuff before Tortoise (though not Can or Neu or anything like that). I first got into TNT through some jazz school friends who were (and are) amazing musicians and had already metabolized all the jazz history and chops they would need. So it was a cool perspective to see that as a starting point instead of an end goal, like, what are you going to do with all that? And TNT was a great example at the time.

I guess in a sense Tortoise at its best was truly a fusion band.

Post-rock was just fusion all along.

That I don't agree with. Unless you mean that all music is fusion, in which case, sure.

xp great post, pomenitul, and I think you are right in identifying the generational difference. I'm a little older than you, and sounds like I'm a little bit younger than eddhurt, but your experience mirrors mine. As I stated upthread, Tortoise was absolutely crucial to my checking out music that I might have otherwise taken years to find, and for that I am grateful. I also still think they're a great band, no qualifiers; I saw them three years ago on the Catastrophist tour and they were excellent

Ry Cooder is a bad-ass guitarist, and his later records, like Chavez Ravine, are great. Very humane efforts.

this thread is a complete clusterchinstroke

There is definitely a generational thing about Tortoise and the comment about reissues in the 90s is otm. Tortoise sounded alien and fascinating to me as a 19 yer old in 1995-96. They were transparent about their influences and that’s what led me to hearing Can, Reich, Morrisone,Lee Perry and electric Miles. Sure I might have heard all that in due course but Tortoise was my gateway and I’ve never held it against them.

I mentioned upthreas my thoughts about Jeff Parker joining the band midway through TNT. They became “less adventurous” but they also became less slavish to their influences. Standards is when they finally just started to sound like Tortoise.

If you told me this Joe Chambers track was a primary influence on TNT, I would not be at all surprised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEWEC5lv_Co

i'll have to check that album out, i love New World from 1976. it even has semi-tortoise-y mallet percussion action on "chung king"

"chung dynasty" i mean, god wtf brimstead

now you've got me thinking about stan freberg

New Jeff Parker record is just insanely good, like nearly perfect.

I guess I'm intrigued, because I've never really liked his playing. Which album is the new one?

The New Breed, it's great

Wait, that's not the new one, is it? Is it Suite for Max Brown?

oops yeah brain fart that's the new one

There's a new Chicago Underground Quartet album out too.

right on the new one is brain fart got it

(sorry)

mini West Coast tour at the end of March

http://www.trts.com/

Link to buy new reissue is broken, link to their merch is broken. The 'marketing' behind this band is being run by idiots. Do they not want money for their merch and albums?

Whoa, calm down, it'll be okay.

fyi - you can also buy the reissue on bandcamp - https://tortoise.bandcamp.com/album/rhythms-resolutions-clusters

Seems like a totally fair comment to me tbqh. Bands should keep their websites up to date, especially when it concerns product.

yeah, it's definitely annoying, but "run by idiots" seemed a little much.

just wait until the better business bureau finds out about these broken links, they'll have a thing or two to say to these nincompoops

When I think of tortoise I can only think of how I have the vinyl of TNT and wonder if I can get money for it

They’re quietly gearing up to release new music, and this is part of that. (Tour and reissue, not links that briefly don’t work.)

Listening to Millions Now Living... for the first time in ages, and just wanted to say that Glass Museum and The Taut and Tame are just as good as Djed.

Apologies if there’s a better place for this

Bundy K Brown and Britt Walford

https://jungleboogie.bandcamp.com/album/cease-desist

This feels like the decade or half decade of current or former Tortoise members resurfacing and blowing my mind

Woah.

New track is out

From, apparently, a forthcoming release on… International Anthem?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh9LYntfYog

john herndon's son is emerging emo rapper 2hollis

Sounds like Tortoise, sounds great. Doing it on IA is a nice full-circle move.

does seem like it should be illegal for a tortoise record to not be on thrill jockey though. oh well, good to hear something new!

Tortoise not on Thrill Jockey, Bonnie 'Prince' Billy not on Drag City, what are we doing to our beautiful queens*

*indie labels and their marquee acts

https://intlanthem.bandcamp.com/album/oganesson-remixes

Now we're all grown up, are we ready to agree thst Standards is their crowning achievement? So good...!

Millions Now Living...ftw

Standards was always my go-to.

s/t

A long long time ago I was given a mixtape by someone (honestly it's so long ago I forget who). The first track was named "Djed" by Tortoise, but it wasn't the version on Millions...; it had more of a hip-hop feel and used the famous "Come out to show them" sample of the Harlem Six as used by Steve Reich.

I'd really like to know what it was and where I could hear it again

This new track is... okay? Might need to give it another listen

Ah finally figured it out - it's the Unkle Bruise Blood remix. It's ace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI9z9ACEdQA

Exactly 5 minutes into Along The Banks Of Rivers when the original riff comes back in <3

I'd love to hear an orchestral version of that tune

Oh shit, maybe this is the next best thing though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IzHmn2ASN0

the opening of “seneca” is so cool, those intense dueling drum rolling crescendos and that cyborg breakbeat… and that incredible snare roll as the other instruments drop in

I'm deferential to It's All Around You but yeah that and Standards was their peak for sure

Will no-one else rep for TNT? It's always been my go-to for them.

Gonna put it on now after revisiting "Millions" last night and giving it a deep listen in bed. The latter is really wonderful, but it's slow cinema and these days I'm less impressed by that sort of thing. Standards suits me best because it's a lot more immediate, a bit more "fusion" and obviously funky and tangible

This is one of those bands I have completely missed and need to rectify. Oh well, better 30 years late than never.

Haven't really listened to 'It's All Around You' or past it. I remember readingpopular opinions saying they'd run aground on latter releases but I'm ready to give them a go

standards is good but their best remains tnt

surprised to find this many standards heads here i liked it the best once upon a time!!!! but the mood and compositions of tnt are >>>>>. it’s like a downtempo/ambient club record but jazz

not sure why i’m justifying it so much. it is their consensus best afaict

My favorite way to listen to TNT is this live performance of it from 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwJf5fw57Yo

re: the revive, always pleased when tortoise puts out a remix EP

I love 'Ten Day Interval'. And especially 'I Set My Face To The Hillside'. I might make a mini playlist of my very favourites.

I love the first four albums plus A Lazarus Taxon, can't pick a favorite from among them. Composition quality falls off after that imo.

'The Equator' is great, but to me it also sounds a little bit like the theme tune from 'The Thin Blue Line'

TNT and Standards are my 2 favorites, but I don't think they've put out anything I dislike.

The 1/2 punch of “Night Air” and “Ry Cooder” will always be my favorites

I've probably said this upthread / years ago, but the first three albums are all brilliant in different ways - in part due to the fact that a key part of their lineup was constantly shifting. Bundy Brown, David Pajo, and Jeff Parker all have a really strong imprint on the sound of this group. TNT is interesting in part because it's a hybrid of Pajo and Parker's influence. Standards is the album where the lineup solidifies and it's no accident that everything post-Standards bears a strong similarity to that album. Even though we're just talking about one guitarist, it's almost like two different bands before/after Standards.

TNT is my easy fave, with Standards slightly behind. It’s All Around You is super underrated for sure.

always needs to be in a list of my fav Tortoise things: this remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iblJynuYzVU

lol a remix from one of the guys in the Black Keys come on no one wants this

Weirdly I'm wearing my Tortoise tshirt today and I see this revival.

I agree with Michael B.

the only other song I like on standards is “Monica”, that is one hot jam.

I like Standards a LOT, but have to be in the right state of mind.

TNT and Millions are kinda “anytime” Tortoise records for me.

The s/t has never clicked fully in my mind, I should return to it.

IAAY took years and years to make sense, at the time I was almost offended by it. The subsequent LPs left me cold but again I should try again.

The new song/EP I linked above are doing SOMETHING … starting to get excited

the s/t is my favorite, great late night album, fonky bass

A Lazarus Taxon is fabulous but I haven’t spent quite enough time with it

The first album + Millions + Gamera is all I really need. It all went a bit Tubular Bells for me circa TNT and then everything else had elements that were too fiddly. Have longed for them to go back to the simplicity of album one or the more sample based work of album two again, but have have never found it.

The Bundy K. Brown/David Pajo years will always be my favorite.

"Gamera" in particular... There used to be grainy 144p footage of Pajo playing it (even though BKB wrote it) that I watched ~4000x times.

my apologies, Murgatroid.

Murgatroid was talking about the proposal thread revive, not your post, it turns out. I had to check Spring Heel Jack and Black Keys weren't the same people

oh okay, thank you :-)

*proposal = original (autocorrect)

This is the first three albums for me and *A Lazarus Taxon*. Just a classic run of records, *TNT* being what feels like the culmination of a sound.

I have a soft spot for *Beacons of Ancestorship*, as I wrote about it in prep for an interview I did with Doug. We sat in a pub and talked about Arnold Odermatt and oh things might have been different.

I loved Beacons because it felt like a genuine, properly belligerent attempt to burn it all down and see what’s still twitching at the end

Which is why it’s such a bummer when they panic halfway through — _oh wait, never mind, here’s some vibraphones_

Still, that first half? Absolutely wild

Huh listening to this now and it is very different but still very much Tortoise. Very enjoyable.

You know a band Tortoise fans should check out if they're not familiar with them is Kreidler

jeez, no one likes The Catastrophist, do they? I mean, I do, but no one ever mentions it, not even here. "Shake Hands With Danger" is such a jam

haha i was just about to post about it. I think The Catastrophist is really good; it's not up to the level of their peak work but it's a really nice record

I saw them play on The Catastrophist tour. I had fairly modest expectations but they were really on point. They didn't talk at all; at one point someone asked for the name of the song they played and Doug McCombs yelled "It's called JUST LISTEN TO THE FUCKING MUSIC" or something

CHARMING

Bundy K. Brown's remix "Not Quite East of the Ryan" is a pretty good deep Tortoise cut to check out.

Y’all got me out here listening Beacons of Ancestorship for the first time in forever on my evening walk

At a TNT-era gig in Kalamazoo (or maybe it was Detroit), a person in the crowd kept yelling "Play all night!" Near the end of the set, between songs, John Herndon deadpanned "This next one is called 'All Night.'" No reaction from the crowd or the band, who just went into "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls" or whatever.

ha, I saw Tortoise in Kalamazoo in 1998. I don't remember that bit, but I believe it.

Jeff Parker solo >>>