donald fagen, "the nightfly" -- c or d?

I think the title track would appeal to Alex in NYC for its mention of "WJAZ."

"What a beautiful world this will be, what a glorious time to be free". There's a huge difference in the way he sings this than the way he would on a Dan album. Free of that world-weary cynical tone (which I love, but it's a refreshing change).

I think 'New Frontier' was the first Dan-related song I ever heard.

kamakiriad just doesn't measure up.

Re. "The Goddbye Look": It's about Cuba right (or Cuba is the most obvious ref. point)? There are some Dan-esque obscurantist bits in that song. What is "the goodbye look" anyhow?

Actually listening to this again before work, the title track isn't perfect. His singing is unusually strained and the station-ID-as-chorus thing gets a bit tiresome.

And as for irony, there is a gentle sort of irony to some of the songs, about kids of the '50s expecting a better world. But I'm not so sure that Fagen has closed down all possibility of this ever happening, or at least he doesn't sing as though he assumes these expectations had been thwarted something fierce.

...OK I know "the goodbye look" comes from Ross MacDonald but the book that bears this title doesn't seem to bear much resemblance to the scenario related in the song. Or does it?

Maybe DF was dreaming of a jazz station down south. Even as a teen, Fagen *knew* NYC because it's so close to the suburbs where he grew up.

Anyway, this album is my top 5 favorites of all time. Such great songs. Nothing Fagen has done since can come close.

I'm not sure if I was first introduced to it through "IGY" on Top 40 radio or the great "New Frontier" video on MTV.

I always associate "The Nightfly" with another classic from 1982/83 --Joe Jackson's "Night and Day". Seems to me "IGY" and "Steppin Out" were on the radio around the same time. My first intro to jazz, if you like.

And no, "True Companion" is not on "The Nightfly." Youy have to buy the "Heavy Metal" soundtrack.

"...a touch of tuesday weld..."

by the way what's the '7 second delay wheeze'.
and is 'java' just like normal coffee or is it
something else ?

I don't think it's the kind of look you want to see.

Cause tonight they're arranging a small reception just for me
Behind the big casino by the sea

I know what happens
I read the book
I believe I just got the goodbye look

So I gather it's kinda like the "party" they threw for Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.

Years ago some firends of mine a/b'd this record with a Steely Dan record, Aja I think/. It seemed outrageously clean and smooth by comparison, like of the pair, Fagan was the real obsessive compulsive when it came to studio technique. I remember him saying once that he couldn't use keyboard strings, as their tuning characteristics made him tense.

I think they both were, really. And 1982 has a lot to do with that Spyro Gyra production, too.

"The songs on this album represent certain fantasies that might have been entertained by a young man growing up in the remote suburbs of a north-eastern city during the late fifties and early sixties, i.e. one of my general height, weight and build."

I've been a Steely Dan fan for quite a few years, but never thought to investigate the solo albums. Downloaded 'IGY' today and man, it kicked my ass. What a wonderful, heartbreaking song. Can the other songs on Nightfly possibly be anywhere near as good as this?

-- paranoia is the hipster's disease (theundergroundhom...), October 22nd, 2004.

And producing China Crisis.

Really really interesting - just to hear all of the parts broken down...

search 'Junkie Girl', 'Book of Liars', 'This Moody Bastard', 'Down In The Bottom', 'Lucky Henry'. Destroy 'Cringemaker', 'Girlfriend'.

If people seriously can't find Kamakiriad, i'll put it up on slsk myself; if you're serious about the Dan, you should hear it.

and the rosie vela album!

Best song ever? I rather think it might be.

If you get really desparate, you could listen to Howard Jones' cover of IGY, that would probably put you off it for a while.

Actually I did stop listening to it, now I'm onto "Snowbound" and "Pixeleen"

Becker & Fagen should be given the Keys to the fucking City. They have improved my life beyond measure. God DAMN this is a wonderful world. [falls face down onto keyboard]

i saw an ad for two morning-show DJs who were conspicuously ugly. so i thought, "haha, 'a face made for radio.'" then i thought of the cover of this album.

i just listened to this on the way home from work! that tower records online sale had the nightfly for $7.99 so i picked it up, wanting to hear new frontier. walk between raindrops is pretty great too!

Best song ever? I rather think it might be.

Wow.

Wow.

We are from such completely different worlds. "I.G.Y." is not only one of my least favorite songs ever, but hearing it actually makes me feel slightly ill. And, no, I'm seriously not being hyperbolic. It sounds utterly soulless to my ears.

But then I'm most assuredly not in any way a Steely Dan fan, which would appear to make my opinions very unpopular in this thread.

what else is on it extras-wise, just the NEW FRONTIER video?

how soes it sound?

The guy I studied engineering under, for one.

God, there's nothing QUITE like "Ruby Baby" for getting ready to leave for a great dinner and the company of friends on a Saturday night.

geir otm

According to the Brian Sweet bio the group used to warm up their vocal chords with 'Ruby Baby' before their live shows in the early 70s.

MAN what a record.

Have had a casette copy of it for years. Don't listen too often to it though.

And afetr reading this thread I'm now belatedly getting this weird image of JBR -- sitting in a fridge and listening to "Maxine".

according to wikipedia:
The Nightfly is widely considered to be one of the best engineered albums ever made. Some audio engineers use it to evaluate the quality of playback equipment.

Out of curiosity, which other records were used for this purpose? Part of what got me into listening to Steely Dan in the first place was curiosity stemming from this very subject, but I can only remember hearing it come up w/r/t Aja and the Nightfly.

hey, maybe I can use the word "curiosity" a few more times

heard today (in a "taco del mar") a cover of THE FAGEN/NIGHTFLY ARRANGEMENT of "Ruby Baby"

clearly impossible

dude, taco del mar is disgusting!

Anyone check this out?
http://www.amazon.com/Nightfly-Trilogy-3-MVI-DVD-4-CD/dp/B000M06SVS

I think i first heard "Ruby Baby" (and prbly "The New Frontier" as well) at a Wendy's.

I heard "IGY" at a Denny's last month.

God, I wanted to be the kid in "New Frontier," minus the design-learning part.

according to wikipedia:
The Nightfly is widely considered to be one of the best engineered albums ever made. Some audio engineers use it to evaluate the quality of playback equipment.

Out of curiosity, which other records were used for this purpose? Part of what got me into listening to Steely Dan in the first place was curiosity stemming from this very subject, but I can only remember hearing it come up w/r/t Aja and the Nightfly.

Interesting question. I've read this about Dark Side of The Moon, altough i think engineers preferred it as an example of using the full range of the stereo field.

for the second time in less than two weeks I just have heard a car go past on my street blasting "I.G.Y."

I have to say, everything else sounds like shit when played after The Nightfly. It sounds bleeding fantastic on my new system.

Anyone check this out?
http://www.amazon.com/Nightfly-Trilogy-3-MVI-DVD-4-CD/dp/B000M06SVS

just got it today actually! Nightfly is of course gloriously immaculate in 5.1 - strangely enough the mix doesn't do "I.G.Y" any favors, but OH MY GOD "The Goodbye Look" sounds spry and lively as hell. Morph the Cat is a revelation, instantly my favorite Fagen-related project since the Nightfly; I predict that I'll be torturing my neighbors with it for the next few months. Kamakiriad or w/e still bores me so much that it reminds me of middle school, but at least it bores me in 5.1 now.

what are the '10 extra tracks' on disc 4?? what era are they from? are they any good?

The cover of "Ruby Baby" is wondrous.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, March 13, 2006 7:58 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

Just listened to this in decent headphones for the first time ever and there's a woman sighing (or something) at about 24 seconds.

Unless memory fails -- it's been a while -- that's Valerie Simpson.

Yes, she's definitely on it. It's...erm...added a whole new dimension to the track.

One of the best things about this LP is that it can be found at second hand stores for about 50 cents.

hm. bummer since i just bought it from emusic for, like, 4 bucks.

good album tho

"i hear yr mad about brubeck . . ."

I saw some "Early songs of becker and fagen" record for a couple dollars and didn't pick it up
it was gone the next day
if I see it again should I get it?

The horns on "I.G.Y"...sigh. So wonderful.

Flawless classic.

"Early songs of becker and fagen

nah

Flawless classic.

otm

I love this album more than any in the Steely Dan catalog.

ok this good but lets not get carried away like poor EZ here

I'm a weird Dan fan anyways - my favorite is The Royal Scam and my least favorite is Aja.

I saw some "Early songs of becker and fagen" record for a couple dollars and didn't pick it up
it was gone the next day
if I see it again should I get it?

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, April 23, 2010 12:31 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

did it have like a reel of tape in a metal case or something on the cover?

i bought that once....you're not missing anything great....i ended up selling it back later on....i guess if it's like $2 just to satisfy your curiosity maybe

MTV used to play the New Frontier video constantly.

I'm trying to think of some solo debut albums from lead singers that are better than this, and there aren't many.

When does the Kamakiriad re-evaluation begin? That will be a tougher sell.

OMG thanks for reminding me of that "New Frontier" video! Just watched it on YouTube and realized it was one of those videos that had seared images in my young, impressionable brain but could never recall what they were from. That whole animated sequence with "the Reds" just took me back to my childhood.

proud that i started this thread... seven years ago...

did it have like a reel of tape in a metal case or something on the cover?

That would be...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHSVCs9rX0A/ShuWRawo87I/AAAAAAAAGQc/wUlsXorepBM/s400/Fagen,+Becker,+And+Diaz+-+1971+-+You+Gotta+Walk+It+Like+You+Talk+It+(Or+You%27ll+Lose+That+Beat).jpg

But there are loads of different releases of those early demos around (search Becker and Fagen at Amazon), so if you miss that one you'll probably see another soon enough. They all have practically the same track list: stuff like Brain Tap Shuffle, Let George Do It, Android Warehouse, etc. Think I got one from FOPP for a couple of quid years ago. Wouldn't have paid any more than that for it though. Vaguely interesting if you're into the Dan, but you'll probably never play it more than twice.

does that have soul ram on it? that song is the shit.

this album is at least as good as the best of SD's catalogue.

I could not disagree more strongly.

true, it's better than the best of SD

Not long ago I interviewed drummer Ben Perowsky, who shuttles back and forth between jazz and indie rock; he also played on the Walter Becker album. He said it was hilarious hanging out with him in Hawaii, because Becker had just installed all this absurdly expensive digital equipment in his house and was basically making the album just to test the equipment, and it kept screwing up and erasing entire takes. Every time it did this, Becker would compose these elaborate, scathing emails to the president of Sony, which he would never send.

okay, I'm listening to Gaucho right now (the song), and I retract my statement. aerosmith otm

playing this so much the last two weeks <3 <3 <3

"I saw some "Early songs of becker and fagen" record for a couple dollars and didn't pick it up
it was gone the next day
if I see it again should I get it?

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, April 23, 2010 12:31 AM (7 months ago) Bookmark"

assuming you meant the You Gotta Walk It Like You Talk It soundtrack, it's worth it for 'Roll Back The Meaning' alone. amazing song

So the cover is basically him pretending to be Mort Fega?

cover of book is revealed:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41bRPFRg0HL._SY300_.jpg

stoked.

I am giving this another shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRFSc0MBz0s

Ha! Nice scatting & the band is in the pocket. Not sure about the improvised lyrics.

listening for the first time, and whoaa- completely classic. up there with gaucho and aja

otm

feels like what would naturally have happened after gaucho but less cynical. even "the goodbye look" plays it sweet. it's in the class of great SD albums but Aja is an unattainable pinnacle for me tho

Multitracked Fagen on "Ruby Baby" is godhead

the title track kills me

I've got plenty of java
And Chesterfield Kings
But I feel like crying
I wish I had a heart like ice
Heart like ice

there were these DJs I would hear really late on the weekends, these older AM radio guys who were pushed to the 3 AM slot and would spin Sinatra and big band and '50s-'60s classic jazz (nothing fancy or experimental, only as wacky as mid period tony bennett perhaps?) this album reminds me of them I guess.

so you say there's a race of men in the trees - you're for tough legislation?
thanks for calling. wait all night for calls like these.

Classic no question

anyone read Eminent Hipsters yet

The whole album is a classic, but I consider "I.G.Y." in particular to be one of my all-time favorite tracks ("New Frontier" is also great, definitely a worthy follow-up single)

Big fan of "Maxine" over here

Classic no question

anyone read Eminent Hipsters yet

― Master of Treacle, Tuesday, December 24, 2013

yeah, didn't like it at all...someone should have told him to skip the nasty tour diary that takes up the last 80 pages...the rest are essays already published(?). felt like a ripoff

I think that Steely Dan may be my ultimate example of 'band whose music I like but whose main members I hate'.

Ugh. Tour diary seems very un-Dan/Fagen

Steely Dan....On The Road.

Dear god no

Didn't care for the book at all but I bought it for a friend; he can hash it out.

the book couldn't have been more disappointing

Ian Penman's long, meandering review of Eminent Hipsters is fantastic - http://www.city-journal.org/2014/bc0119ip.html

Epic.

Thanks for the link, brilliant piece

Nice essay - I wonder if the book is as good as he makes it sound though.

it's not

and it's not Annie Hall he should be referencing, more like Stardust Memories...the contempt he shows for his fans is a real turn off

http://devonrecordclub.com/2014/07/21/donald-fagen-the-nightfly-round-70-not-grahams-choice-but-forced-in-to-it-by-toms-selection-system/

suggest ban

ha!

Anyone heard the comedy album by Tom Schiller and Donald Fagen, "Tom and Don"? I started listening to it on Spotify the other day.

Nick listened: I don’t remember finding this offensive at all, or all that bland or alienating etc etc. But at the same time, I don’t remember ANYTHING about it at all.

Often posited as a negative, but is it? Does something have to be memorable to be good? If you went for a 3 hour walk in the woods, how much of that would you remember?

I generally have a hard time remembering concrete things about music if I haven't listened to it several times.

I'm not sure things needs to be remembered!

Like Aja, it sounded too clean, too smug, too lift musak.

c'mon, this is sorta the point. just look at the album cover! i can understand why someone wouldn't like it, but it's like criticizing thrash metal for sounding aggressive.

how is it smug? The sensibility is very different from Steely Dan's!

I think it's a pretty cheerful and nostalgic album

it's pretty romantic and almost gauzy

Nightfly and Blonde Redhead were the soundtracks to my chemotherapy.

I wouldn't say it's a "fond" memory, but I have very tranquil, peaceful memories of slipping out as the intro to "Goodbye Look" played.

Both kinda stimulating and relaxing at the same time, if that makes any sense.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y61%2BlCb7L._SS500.jpg

Missed this from October: Nightfly Trilogy Box reissue (on CD & Vinyl) minus all the DVD 5.1 stuff but with the added attraction of Sunken Condos.

Back Cover Tracklist:

https://imagescdn.juno.co.uk/full/CS665435-01B-BIG.jpg

Lol at that cover photo

Woah paging the idgaf old man swag thread!

is he... wearing shoulderpads?

I’ll have the 10 extras with a side of insouciance please

Lol at the cover. This is cheap though, 7LP's for 80 euros or so.

So distracted by the cowbell on New Frontier, it’s the only thing I can hear on this track now. And it just doesn’t let up

a good thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEdSCoK-geE

What a find.

Night Music’s the gift that keeps on giving. Man.

Holy fsck! So good

I don’t where to put this so I am putting it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8fU18_IEGY

took me a minute but good to see old D. What's that big black and white photograph on his keyboard? Also who's the guitar guy - could it be old Jeff Beck?

Photograph is the Duke Ellington Orchestra.

https://www.biography.com/.image/t_share/MTM4MjY5OTYxNzI5NjE1Mjkw/517432200jpg.jpg

Guitar guy is indeed Jeff Beck.

Ah cool. He had one, maybe two inspired moments during his solo. Kind of a sleepy performance all around though. Probably the drummers fault.

You mean that hack Bernard Purdie? ;)

What? That was Purdie? No way

https://youtu.be/zx_4fwOfRXI
DOnald explains the world as he knows it in ‘93

New live album is perhaps unnecessary, but I'm enjoying it!

it is good! ditto the new steely dan live album — yeah, unnecessary, but it sounds damn good.

ha, yeah the Dan one is up next after I finish this one.

Donald Fagen during James Hamilton's album cover photoshoot for his 1982 masterpiece, 'The Nightfly' pic.twitter.com/PLbuxfeUxI

— Barney Hurley (@barneyhurley1) October 14, 2021

Donald Fagen 'Yamaha KX88' keyboards store poster, 1983 pic.twitter.com/uZ5CluSyl8

— Barney Hurley (@barneyhurley1) October 15, 2021

lolz

Trying to imagine how differently The Nightfly would have been received if that shot above had been the cover. People would have reviewed it like it was Fagen's version of The Idiot.

Straight to VHS slasher vibes

Does Don ever smile?

His lips sometimes curl up to show his teeth, does that count ?
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xytRyW-HpC4/TxDDY2DV2QI/AAAAAAAAHjI/yeQw3oeq5ns/s1600/donald.jpg

lou chang/her brother/he's burning with rage
louuu chaaang buuurns wiith rage

hey we saw you from across the bar and really dig your vibe. can we buy you a drink? pic.twitter.com/YAFRQ8FZwV

— ｂｏｓｓ (@bosscrood) September 6, 2022

creepy af

With all due respect to Walter, some days this is my favorite Steely Dan album.

And tonight they're arranging
A small reception just for me

I like it a lot too. I like all of Steely Dan's albums, but I do favor their first four - The Nightfly is not far behind.

I really really love “true companion” from the (year before’s) heavy metal soundtrack too. Gorgeous chord progression

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9wbumIKJJ0

Steve khan going hard

Never heard this! Thank u brim

This is nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzECG54oTZo

it's times like these where I really see what Don was going for with this

Recently it blew my mind to find out that Steve Khan was lyricist Sammy Cahn’s son.

Didn’t know that either, kind of wild. My college band mate took lessons with Steve Khan as a kid.

every time i put this album on, i like it just a little more, and yet am repulsed just a little more by the unbelievably stiff rhythm tracks. the ultimate in plodding click-track sophistipop. the credits claim there are human drummers all over this thing, but my ears can't tell. the songs are still so good, but i think it'd be much more widely appreciated if it weren't for this. when i first bought it, my partner (raised from childhood as a Dan fan) rejected it it immediately as elevator music.

what about believable stiff rhythm tracks

I think that drummers playing to a click was a pretty new thing at the time and they hadn't really developed ways to make it feel more alive. Even Kamakiriad still felt too clock-like to me.

Doc I agree. Fun to imagine this with Gadd and Purdie instead.

They had been using some kind of "drum computer" since Gaucho, though (which is was one of the many obstacles to completing the recording), so I don't know that the rhythmic stiffness was new to Fagen's solo career.

It was definitely there with Gaucho, but maybe just handled a bit better. "Glamour Profession" is probably the closest to having that metronomic sound, although it still sounds smoother than anything on The Nightfly.

"I.G.Y."
Best song ever? I rather think it might be.

Certainly the best tribute to Mr. Osterberg since "Jean Genie"

Drummers had been doing the click for awhile. That was one of the production tricks the Tulsa musicians around Denny Cordell etc. would do. They would cut the drums synching up with early rhythm boxes to keep steadier time.

'hey nineteen' sounds the most metronomic / artificial to me in the original album run

Yeah, to me, Gaucho is the "believable stiff" that Alfred invokes! It took me a while to warm up even to that; the opening seconds of Babylon Sisters portend a far drier record than the one that's coming. Now it works for me; there's something interesting in the tension between the locked-down rhythms and way life or anguish burst through, like the solos on Third World Man. And you also have things like Time Out of Mind which feel very rhythmically "live" even though I'm sure they were painstakingly assembled.

there's something interesting in the tension between the locked-down rhythms and way life or anguish burst through

Bingo. And you cited my favorite SD song.

Pretty sure it was ILM posts, possibly yours, that really turned me on to it!

I think the robodrumming works on “new frontier”, how it plays with the syncopated synth rhythm.

Also, the drumming on the title track is funky as hell.

"I.G.Y."
Best song ever? I rather think it might be.

I had no idea what it was referencing until I read Greil Marcus's explanation (because I was too lazy to look it up myself):

I remember first playing the record and realizing both that I hadn’t thought about the International Geophysical Year (“I.G.Y.“) in decades, and how thrilling its affirmation that anything was possible as soon as the breakthroughs it promised—all in one year—came in.

Every generation probably had a moment like that, where suddenly the possibilities seemed endless and optimism for the world was boundless (or for the less inclined, at least more justifiable). I think that comes through on that track, and it feels all the more poignant whenever I hear it now because I can't imagine ever believing in a shred of that optimism ever again, not after the last eight years.

Fagen said in interviews at the time that The Nightfly was free of cynicism, but certainly all the songs come with a dose of irony about the attitudes of twenty years prior. Forty years after that, even that distancing isn't enough to make that mindset clear to us now, and I wonder what a new Fagen song about the Kennedy era would be like.

Irony and cynicism aren't the same imo

That's the point, but I wonder would the irony curdle into cynicism with further historical perspective.

The vocals and especially the music is so generous that I think not.

I won't have a word said against this album...from top to bottom this album is a thing of absolute wonder..:peak 1982 Warner Bros glory...best drum programming ever committed to (digital) tape...don't think there's been an album since to match its sheer perfection...stiff??...WTF??

I have always enjoyed this album, never loved it. New Frontier was a very prominent radio hit when I was a kid and connotes a sort of innocence for me that is probably beyond the song itself.

I appreciate that others have since raised their concerns about the drums. For me it’s not just the timing from the Wendel sampling drum machine Roger Nichols built for Gaucho—the perfect symbol for the band’s obsessiveness, really—but also the drum sound itself, which is brittler here than what we heard on things like Hey Nineteen and Glamour Profession. This is likely due to the era more than anything, as is the prominent use of synths and sequencers.

All that said, almost every song here is memorable and full of warm little details – multitracked background vocals, bubbly synthesizers. This is something that can’t be said for the increasingly angular and skeletal jazz charts he has spent the vast majority of his career composing thereafter.

Put another way, Fagen and Dan would never again write songs this tuneful or arrangements this playful and maximalist. So there’s that.

Some bottom end missing from the mixing or something. Wish it sounded more like Aja

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzaA3h5sI6A

Here is Patti Austin singing “I.G.Y.” in 1988 with Donald on the DX-7

And David Sanborn on sax. Nice version.

I played this earlier today thinking the opener "I.G.Y." would get me nostalgic over a genuinely optimistic era when progress and science were both embraced, but instead it felt like a vision gone horribly wrong...

"Standing tough under stars and stripes
We can tell
This dream's in sight
You've got to admit it
At this point in time that it's clear
The future looks bright...

A just machine to make big decisions
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision..."

What a fucking week.

Well, yeah