Tom Waits: classic or dud/search & destroy

Search: usual suspects plus any live recording (preferably boots rather than the official live albums) you can get your hands on. He always has great bands and the between song banter is hilarious.

Destroy: it gets a little sloppy around Heartattack & Vine, but I wouldn't part with any of it.

Anyway Search: Nighthawks at the Diner for the old-school Waits at his best, great story-telling, good jokes.

Bone Machine for new school Waits. Brilliant guitar sound throughout the album.

special prize for "What's he building there."

Destroy: oh I dunno, nothing specific. Rain Dogs tends to be a bit boring in spots. [goes into hiding expecting Waits-heads shouting: Rain Dogs boring!!!??? How could you?]

You can make the same arguments against Nick Cave or Leonard Cohen - self-consciously trying to be "classic", relying on a persona, heavy- handed American Gothic imagery, doomy vocalisation, literary pretensions, wearing suits & motorcycle boots etc.

sometimes all that seems a bit silly, I admit. Not particularly any more goofy than the pretensions of a lot of other musicians, though.

I don't understand the hypothetical jewel & fiona apple-loving yuppie analogy, really. should people who like bad art only like bad art? are they not worthy of their old blues records? or are all people who like old music (or new music inspired by older music) scared of music that isn't "fossilized into inoffensiveness?"

Or maybe you could give an example of a worthwhile songwriter who isn't trying to sound classic who can be constructively compared with Waits (i.e. not contrasting him with Autechre). I've yet to see ANY songwriter, classic or not, disparage Tom. I think that should count for something.

I agree about the cult of Waits, though I don't think it's as bad as U2/Radiohead, etc. because so much of Tom's persona is kitsch that the negative aspects (often too sentimental, for example) are integral to the package as a whole. This is something I think you have to appreciate about him whether you like the music or not, is that he takes his job as entertainer seriously. Keep that in mind next time you see some Pavement-clones whose singer is afraid to even make eye contact w/ the audience.

I will put in the obligatory defense that Rain Dogs isn't boring. In fact I recommend it as the perfect first purchase for the beginner.

And what the difference is between a "real" or a "fake" beatnik, or what that has to do with anything, I don't know.

(I never listen to the former two, but the point stands.)

The 80s trilogy is the highlight, still, although Bone Machine is just as good. A recent listen to Mule Variations made it seem his worst thing since the 70s to me. His gift for melody seems to have left him on that record. The songs are VERY by the numbers, although the production & lyrics seem up to snuff. Does anyone agree that he fell off sharply with that one?

I gotta go with Gun Street Girl. Love that song. We used to drink in this tiny all night bar in Tokyo and they would play Waits all night. Pretty bizarre.

"The Piano Has Been Drinking" for boozed up fun. "Time" as the best of his ballads.

(I like Fiona Apple btw.)

I guess so. It's just that it's a little off-putting that he started inhabiting that persona at, like, age 21...

Why do people not like Swordfishtrombones? I actually prefer that album to Rain Dogs - shorter. Plus, it's got "Shore Leave" and "Frank's Wild years." Hot cha.

So did Xtina ;) Also, while the persona itself has remained constant, different songs present different perspectives of it; with much of his work, Tom's character (generally in 'observer' mode) is actually less important to the song than the characters he sees. Of course they're filtered through his narrative, but I think he wants to be a pretty reliable narrator most of the time, when not soaked in whisky.

I thought Swordfishtrombones was generally considered to be his best... I always preferred Rain Dogs, though. I still haven't got over how his voice sounds NORMAL on Closing Time.

I love Tom Waits more than life itself.

Sometimes I tell people I moved to the Bay Area in the hopes of bumping into Tom. Even I don't know if I'm joking or not.

haven't listened to him in quite a while though, I kinda overdid it there

The Black Rider is shit-scary... I still need to acquire Bone Machine.

TS: Alice vs Blood Money? I go with the latter, though "Alice" is possibly the best song from the two of them put together.

didn't really care for mule variations though, and his last two left me a little cold, though I think "blood money" is the better of the two

Also, Marc Ribot!!

http://www.kicoz.nu/tom_waits/images/shoezko.jpghttp://www.c-m-b.com/web/tom%20waits.jpghttp://elsewhere.polydistortion.net/lib/cache/pics/music/2002-04-19-tom-waits.small.jpghttp://www.e835.to.infn.it/people/fbertini/waits.jpg

"The next generaton of an underworld American musical dynasty makes its debut on a new LP currently being worked on by Tom Waits. The singer's son Casey appears playing percussion and turntables on the album, working title Real Gone, slated for release this autumn on Anti Records."

Best song: Who Are You from [i]Bone Machine[/i]. Does anyone else find this song to be the most perfect song/performance of his career. Reduces me to a husk every time.

Fave albums are [i]Closing Time, Swordfishtrombones, Franks Wild Years[/i] and [i]Bone Machine[/i]. [i]Mule Variations[/i] and [i]Alice/Blood Money[i/] I like very much, though a little patchy. Given what albums I love, should I get [i]Black Rider[/i]?

"The Ramones cover" is probably "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" - on Bone Machine.

According to Johnny Ramone, “It took the Ramones 30 years to be eventually nominated for a Grammy. Thanks to Tom Waits for finally getting us there.”

Tom Waits recorded the track for the tribute album with his son Casey Waits on drums and Les Claypool of Primus on bass, while Brett Gurewitz from Bad Religion and Epitaph Records founder co-produced and played guitar. “The only honor possibly greater than producing and playing on a Tom Waits track would be to do it for The Ramones,” said Gurewitz. “The fact that it’s nominated for a Grammy makes it all the more surreal.”"

(Les Claypool is on the new record again, I know at least one ILXer will be delighted at this. *hint* it's not ME)

Of what I've heard, I enjoy the Swordfishtrombones and later material more than pre-SFT. On the Swordfishtrombones vs. Rain Dogs point, somebody previously said they favored Rain Dogs on the basis that by then he had more time to grow into the new sound he was crafting and that Rain Dogs was less patchy (which I'm not sure if they meant in terms of consistancy of sound or just consistancy of performance), the lesser consistancy of sound of Swordfish is what is so great about that album to me [Holy run on sentence, sorry folks]. He pulls out the mush balladry of In The Neighborhood right next to the smoky storytelling of Frank's Wild Years right next to the xylophone jazz of Swordfishtrombones, I love it. Alice vs. Blood Money, the extreme theatrics of Alice (not to say that most Waits isn't big) win me over (and like someone said earlier, 'Alice' is just such an amazing track).

'Alice' = a rewrite of (or at least v. v. similar to) 'You Don't Know What Love Is'

Interesting! I haven't listened to Alice in awhile, but you might be OTM. There are lots of Waits songs that I've wanted to do jazz versions of since the changes are so standard-y.

It features genuinely fantastic versions of Big Black Mariah, 13 Shells.., Time & others. Marc Ribot's guitar playing and Michael Blair's drunken junkyard percussion are especially enjoyable.

I'm posting this because, for some reason, I haven't listened to his music since talking to him. I still admire him tremendously in the abstract, but I haven't been in a mood to actually hear his music since about a week after turning that piece in.

"Real Gone - Tom Waits
Ever since Tom Waits had his musical re-awakening on Swordfishtrombones he's made it very easy for everyone - you either love him or hate him. If you fall into the latter category and bemoan his wasted-cabaret / singer-songwriter talent gone out the window then DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT LISTENING TO THIS ALBUM. If you, however, 'get' his crazy sounds and draino voice then you will need no more encouragement other than this is EVEN MORE difficult to sit through than the Blood Money / Alice set. Get comfortable - you'll need some time to let this monstrosity sink right in. Enjoy the ride..."

Does this annoy the absolute crap out of anyone else? I don't think Waits "tries" to do anything but challenge himself and anyone else with the stones to listen. I think I like Tom Waits because he (and Brennan) are good contemporary poets/musicians that provide a retreat from all the manufactured crap that is released at "default factory settings". His records have content that is more accessible to not-so-strong readers like myself who enjoy the more eclectic, rootsie things (but not for sake of it) in life but don't have the time or know where to find them. Somebody name someone notable who doesn't like the work of Tom Waits.

Now I haven't yet heard all of his stuff, but most of it. At the moment, The Early Years vol I&II are tiding me over until Real Gone comes out in my neck of the woods.

I'm off to bed - gotta get my make-sense-sleep.

I like some of his stuff, but the trouble is that between every nice ballad once in a while he tends to put some of those absolutely unlistenable Captain Beefheart influenced, well, dunno what I'd call them but songs they aren't, that is for certain.

Now that would be cool. My two favourites working together for the force of mint-ox.

Way Down In The Hole - top "evil preacher" style hellfire-isms with groovy sax breaks.

Big In Japan - again, it's the brassy breaks that do this for me, plus the beatboxing rules.

Such A Scream - I think all three of these songs are quite similar in a way. I like this one too.

With such a vast oeuvre, I had to make painful choices, but I like this list.

Agree on Bone Machine being a peak. Add "Murder in the Red Barn" and "Dirt in the Ground" to the great songs from this record.

(Psst... it's "Hoist That Rag," not "Flag")

typo!

good list! I'd need these somewhere in there too (I'm a sucker for even the schmaltziest Waits material apparently)

Time
Anywhere I Lay My Head
Take It With Me
Falling Down
Yesterday Is Here
Ruby's Arms
Tom Traubert's Blues
God's Away On Business
Another Man's Vine
Gun Street Girl
On the Nickel
Ol' 55

oh, and "Cold, Cold Ground"!

I don't know if "Bone Machine" is a peak, but it did follow a long gap and not only restored his profile but reinvented him as an alternative era hipster (as opposed to net-beatnik weirdo hipster). By "Mule Variations" and that tour he was a full fledged alternative era icon, where he's remained ever since. One of the few short of Leonard Cohen probably even cooler in their late career than during their earlier peaks.

Mule Variations is certified gold! I remember the hosannas at the time but does anyone love it now?

I wore it out but it has a lot of gems. It's a great gateway album and one of the few records my dad and I can agree on.

I think of everything he's done since Bone Machine as one long album (that I rarely listen to, tbh).

Mule Variations felt to me at the time like a schtick-ier sequel to Bone Machine - like that album had hit a pop culture nerve ("Goin' Out West" was in Fight Club!) and he felt internal/external pressure to give people more of the same. The only tracks that really hold up for me are "Cold Water" and "What's He Building?"

Alice and Blood Money were the new ones at the time I interviewed Waits in 2002. I like both of them better than Mule, especially Alice.

Mule Variations feels the point where the Swordfishtrombones career re-invention with Brennan goes on autopilot and the Beefheart spasms start to sound like retreads. It's his only album that lapses in to self-parody, and thankfully he got beyond those cliches he'd established in the 1980s. He hasn't been as consistent since, but that last album shows his peaks are as good as ever. Rain Dogs is tops. There's plenty of fantastic work before Brennan too, and it's not as different as it sometimes seem, just less dissonant.

My favorite of his L.A. balladier early work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3ilqhf1tE

It's missing some of my favorite songs of him:

Green Grass, Red Shoes by the Drugstore and Cold Cold Ground.

Also we all agreed here on ILM that Jockey Full of Bourbon is his number one song. How can that one be missing?

I think of Waits a little like a personal anti-Steely Dan figure...I turned 30 and I dunno, just lost interest. It was hard to imagine, suddenly, growing up/old with his music.

The affectations and the schtick got tiresome. I find it hard to imagine listening to him again like I did 10, 15 years ago (possibly go back to the ballads?)

Oh shit it's also missing Alice!

I usually put on Rain Dogs or Orphans when the urge strikes.

I jumped off the junkwagon with Real Gone. Way too fucking long (72 minutes) and I don't need political songs from Tom Waits. I listen to Tom Waits in order to visit the imaginary planet he lives on, not to hear him gripe about this one. I've never listened to Orphans, but I came back for Bad as Me and liked it.

I like Bad as Me too yet superficially it's not much different from MV.

I don't think of Waits' settings as imaginary, and along with the Brechtian clank, there's been Brechtian social commentary all along about the impossibilities of staying good in an unjust world, with lots of portraits of self-delusional characters who make the world worse. Anachronistic details, yes, but still addressing the real world. Akin to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbYmWrfNJpQ

> I like Bad as Me too yet superficially it's not much different from MV.

I know! Maybe he just needed time off.

I don't need political songs from Tom Waits

I was happy to see "Hell Broke Luce" and "Hoist That Rag" on Alfred's list as they're two of the better anti-war songs anyone's written in the last while

Only Waits show I've ever seen was in a Broadway theatre, prob right after the release of Franks Wild Years. Just great. I'm very fond of the Swordfishtrombones thru Bone Machine period, spotty familiarity with everything else.

i have about 10 of his albums but haven't listened to them in a long time

small change, rain dogs, and franks wild years strike me as the best ones. bone machine is good too

Heartattack and Vine gets slept on despite some A+ songs, especially the ballads, like Jersey Girl and Ruby's Arms.

"Hell Broke Luce" is a great example of how to be influenced by hip hop without trying to make hip hop.

hell broke luce sounds contrived to my ears

cosign on heart attack, that's a great record

faves: Real Gone, Alice/Blood Money, Small Change

Hard to pick but if I had to do one per decade:

70s: blue valentines
80s: swordfishtrombone
90s: bone machine
00s: alice
10s:... i suppose bad as me but there's only one album to pick... surprised he hasn't done much this decade.

Never got the love for Mule Variations, but then I'm not into his straighter blues-oriented stuff and much prefer the Brechtian material really

My fave is "Nighthawks at the diner". It is a little bit like his "Take no Prisoners". He is such a great entertainer and the nightclub atmosphere really fits him well. I used to listen to it on dope, it really intensifies the listening experience. I used to think "Bone Machine" was his last peak after that I lost interest. Finding out that his singing voice is not his real voice did not really help in appreciating his music. On the contrary after that I got pretty tired of his shtick.

real gone is good it's got some siqq ribot playing

ok the first song on real gone is the worst shit he's ever done

Finding out that his singing voice is not his real voice did not really help in appreciating his music.

Actually, his speaking voice (I spent about 2 hours on the phone with him) is not that different from his singing voice at all, just slightly more subdued - 'cause he's talking and not singing. But his speaking voice is definitely gravelly and hoarse. The difference is about what you'd expect. I mean, Robert Plant doesn't speak in high-pitched screams, you know?

Maybe his speaking voice is contrived as well. It could well be that he has "forgotten" his normal voice. There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

there's nothing 'natural' about Tom Waits. his entire act is, well, it's an act. but like you say, it's hard to tell how much of it he has absorbed into his natural persona of course

There is a sudden change of his voice from the first two albums to the others to a much lower register. Do you really think that was natural?

I disagree, and I'm listening to Closing Time as I type this. The voice sounds almost the same to me, just a little more singer-songwriter/country and a little less Howlin' Wolf/Captain Beefheart. Maybe a little more nasal and a little less chest/throat. That's all.

he didnt go full howlin' until heart attack and vine, which by all accounts is a great success of an album

His voice on the Glitter and Doom live album is verging on death metal. I was a bit disappointed by the lack of nuance on that one, even though the playing is great.

Revisiting Glitter and Doom Live today. I wrote this off back in the Times because I found his voice a bit one-note. But maaaan this is actually fantastic. I wish I could watch it live

Well what do you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByMi1Yii9ek

Terrible quality mind