A Certain Ratio

(btw: whats "bootsy" like? never heard it)

Seconded. Most people aren't aware of this amazing song? Or do they just not like it?

I don't understand what all the controversy is about the production on 'To Each...'. I remember it got pretty bad reviews because of it at the time but to me it sounds great - crisp and funky with a good drum sound and some nice atmospherics. Underrated track that everyone should hear : Loss.

For me To Each, Sextet and Graveyard+Ballroom are essential as are the Knife Slits Water and Waterline 12 inchers. From later on 'Force' is brilliant as are the Wild Party and Life's A Scream 12 inchers. I really like 'I'd Like To See You Again' but I can see why most people don't.

Anyway, they came out of the crap period and went great again with the "MCR" album.

As to "To Each.."'s production, I think the band and Hannett slagged it off simply because the early mixes were far better before the engineer in the US cleared the mixing desk (or whatever, the story is in "Early"'s notes). I think it sounds a bit murky, but it suits the material really. And come on... "Winter hill"!!! What a track!

rockist i think simon wosname (topping?) studied latin percussion in ney york. i have a 12 on factory by him which is well smoochy on the timbales (but still crap)

(and yes i know what it means.)

(My psychoticism quotient is high tonight.)

"So, not like Joy Division at all, then."

Oh jesus wept. In WHAT WAY is it 'JD-parody-ish'? WHAT WAY? WHICH 'Earlier Stuff'. Alright I'll concede that the voice is low-register kinda tuneless and not exactly a million miles from Curtis (of course ST stood in for IC a couple of times) but musically, apart from the original All Night Party/Thin Boys it's nothing like. DoJo's drumming makes sure of that.

BTW - All Night Party on the 'Ballroom' side of G&B has the best intro ever. Droning guitar noise, huge pop as a jack is plugged in, a mumbled word from Topping and a fucking great explosion as DoJo's drums come in insanely fast and syncopated. 'My Life Is Just/An Angry Blur'. Indeed.

I could wibble on for hours, but I'll just say "Go buy" and leave it at that. Sextet to follow soon, I hope.

Go on, Jeff. WIBBLE!

A.C.R.

M.C.R.

Their best stuff is far, far better than anything Section 25 did.

oh, come on. acr could be a mighty band, but nothing they did touches "hilltop". (and nothing in the entire universe touches the hilltop megamix. an album in a song! genius.)

that said: i did go through a small period of genuinely believing "i won't stop loving you" to be the greatest song in the whole world, so ask me again in a year's time.

Oh, wait.

Bimble - is the 'horns' thing you refer to Tony Quigley's soprano sax work? If so, yes it's great and unique. The solo in And Then She Smiled is wonderful.

It's interesting that SXXV were mentioned - I think both bands are cut from the same cloth - experimentalists wh0 never stayed still. In fact that's really the Factory ethos. I think of ACR and SXXV in the same way as I think of Can. In fact Can must have been really important influences on both bands. (look out for the cheeky steal of the Aspectacle bass line in Knife Slits Water! There's also a ley line direct from Monster Movies to Aways Now)

Bimble - what is it about Sextet that makes it hard to deal with for you? I agree about MCR - it's kinda dull.

I agree with grimly's comments re : Hilltop and it's megamix. Staggering!

Do the Du if anyone cares.

Nice. :-)

(You'll approve, Dr. C, I actually *purchased* some LTM stuff recently, so I am not solely living off largesse. Cath Carroll's England Made Me, the Department S disc...even Crawling Chaos's The Gas Chair. ;-))

England Made Me is one of the greatest records ever made.

"the big E" is a good song; "won't stop ..." is a fucking powerhouse of propulsive genius, the single greatest new order song new order never made.

if you don't have MCR, bimble, and haven't heard that version ... you need to rectify that. and MCR ain't easy to come by. e-mail me if you want, eh, a hand finding it. weesimon AT mac DOT com

i'll just slink off now and make an arse of something else.

The crazy thing is that I bought that Homonculus outtakes record *first*.

England Made Me is one of the greatest records ever made.

I am about to listen to it here at work. :-)

Anyway, I don't know of this "Won't Stop Loving You" thing (you mean they changed the title and everything? bastards!), but I do hope they didn't mess around with it too much. Much as I love New Order, I do not think bringing Barney into every situation automatically means a fabulous record. But I will look around for it.

BUT when looking over their discography again, I realized I had never even heard the MCR album at all! The album I *had* heard some of was "Change The Station" from 1997 and I didn't like it. I never even heard that album from 1992 that had "27 Forever" on it, the name of which now escapes me but was on Rob's Records. Because by then I'd just assumed they must be crap! But what if I was WRONG AND IGNORANT? It keeps me awake at night these days.

And I swear to god if I'd ever SEEN that "Won't Stop Loving You" 12" in a store, I would have bought it for the Bernard mix, but now I can't find it so Fiendish I do need your help if you have time.

Dr. C - Silly me I was in a hurry the last time I read your Dec. 23rd post and this bit slipped by me:

Tony Quigley's soprano sax work? If so, yes it's great and unique. The solo in And Then She Smiled is wonderful.

YES YES YES and YES. "AND THEN SHE SMILED" IS THE SONG ALL ACR SKEPTICS SHOULD GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HEAR. Simply unforgettable, that one.

It's interesting that SXXV were mentioned - I think both bands are cut from the same cloth - experimentalists wh0 never stayed still. In fact that's really the Factory ethos. I think of ACR and SXXV in the same way as I think of Can. In fact Can must have been really important influences on both bands. (look out for the cheeky steal of the Aspectacle bass line in Knife Slits Water! There's also a ley line direct from Monster Movies to Aways Now)

This is an interesting theory. Surely I thought about the way Can was an influence on the Fall, but never went as far as making any connection to ACR & Section 25. It doesn't seem so far fetched, though.

best thing is to e-mail me off the board so we can sort something out: weesimon AT gmail DOT com (or mac.com, it doesn't matter which. it all ends up in the same place).

as for section 25: the can influences are even stronger on the second album, "the key of dreams". it's can-tastic, in fact.

so i tried this, on an hour-long bus ride around arran, and it was amazing. music for the edge of consciousness. drifting in and out of the sound. i'd heartily recommend it.

to my immense surprise, i've just found "good together" in my itunes library. added (from vinyl) on september 9, 2002. and, er, unlistened to ever since. how odd!

god, this ("every pleasure") is fantastic. i will grow old listening to music like this.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I don't understand about it. I almost felt embarassed for liking at the time I first discovered it and figured later on as the years went by I'd probably pull it out and wouldn't be able to stomach the sappiness at all. Somehow they make it work and I don't understand how.

When the beginning of "Rivers Edge" starts with the sax thing, I'm just gone. It is simply one of the most beautfiul things I've ever heard. And that Denise Johnson she's not so bad either, you know? Jeez.

I was so sure that this record was going to completely turn me off by now. I don't understand it. And to think it wasn't even on Factory.

Oh now "Every Pleasure" is on. No, I can't type anymore. It's too much to speak of. I've avoided this record for about 10 years or something. Just plain gobsmacked am I.

I've also now got the "Live in America 1985" album for the first time because way back when I was trying so hard to buy all their records, I never found this one. It's the only one I never found! The version of "Shack Up" is really bizarre. Interesting stuff. And then the bass player plays "America The Beautiful" on his own for a bit just before the start of another song - how absolutely crazy and surreal! The last time I even thought about that song I was probably 8 years old.
OOh and then they add a nice New Ordery keyboard part to "Flight"!

Oh God did I mention that ACR are one of my favourite bands of all time? Exquisite, magnifique, etc...

they're kinda still going: http://www.acrmcr.com was updated in 2003. oh: there's quite a good biography there. i didn't realise half of "four to the floor" was also on MCR.

Just took a glance at the ACR link above - wow!

Andy Connell left as a full-time member just after Force came out, but still guested on the odd song here and there. As far as I know Quigley is still in the band and was on MCR, but may also play other instruments. e.g he used to play some bass in the Swamp Children, but since ACR already have Jez Kerr and DoJo on bass it's doubtful. Maybe keybds.

Love Is The Way is of course the track I was trying to remember the title of. I tend to be a sucker for that kind of bass action.

**And that Denise Johnson she's not so bad either, you know? Jeez.**

I'm not sure that she's on Good Together. Isn't it Flo McSweeney? It's certainly FM on 'Your Little World'. Great chorus in that song.

Live 1985 - that IS an odd one. It's that transitional period after Connell joined, but before Force, when they put out Wild Party and Life's A Scream. It sounds like they're playing in an aircraft hanger IIRC. I'll dig this one out tonight.

I mean NEAT SOPRANO sax!!!

Would love to have heard/been at that gig, Rob M.!

Dr. C you are probably right about Flo McSweeney. I was making a lazy assumption.

Dr. C, were you referring to the album or the song?

And a question for you,misterMartinRatio, if you are really you:

What was the band's impression of how they were portrayed in "24Hour Party People"?

I don't think I've ever even heard that version of Choir before, either. I haven't yet bought Early, because I figured I would have probably had all the tracks by now. Guess I was wrong.

*so excited I can barely breathe*

LIVE IN GRONINGEN 26.10.1980 (LTMCD 2443) £10
Superb live show from the Vera club in Groningen, Holland on 26 October 1980 features the original quintet of Donald Johnson, Jeremy Kerr, Martin Moscrop, Simon Topping and Peter Terrell. Recorded shortly after the band spent six weeks in New York gigging and recording their debut album To Each, the set is unusual in that the band choose to concentrate on lesser-known album tracks rather than singles. Stand-out tracks include And Then Again, My Spirit and the extended percussion excursion Winter Hill. Remastered from the original master tape, the CD includes two ultra rare bonus tracks for collectors, both also recorded live in 1980. And Then Again is taken from the b-side of the 7" single version of Shack Up (released by Factory Benelux in August 1980) and Felch, recorded in Hurrah in New York in September 1980 and included on the celebrated Crepuscule cassette compilation From Brussels With Love. Live 1980 includes a detailed band history and contemporary tour sleevenotes by Larry Cassidy of Section 25, partners on the October 1980 European tour. Full tracklist: Felch, Oceans, And Then Again, Loss, Forced Laugh, My Spirit, Winter Hill, And Then Again (b side), Felch (compilation lp). AVAILABLE MAY 2005.

get in!

Roxymuzak - The only personal downside was the lack of anything from "Force" but it really didn't matter. After an intro sequence (the same as the one on Live In America) they started with Du The Du and also played The Fox and Shack up. Donald Johnson was unbelievable throughout. Good Together, Wonder Why, Be What You Wanna Be were played. I'm struggling now, but I remember the set list spanning all eras. There was an after show party too (I didn't go, but I presume the band were - they were in the bar afterwards chatting to people).

Stirmonster - don't miss it. In fact, mates willing, I might go. I like Glasgow a lot.

Douglas is right. Don't judge them until you hear Lucinda.

-- grimly fiendish (simonmai...), April 17th, 2005.

I remember when I first read this post of my good man Grimly's. Though I loved ACR terribly, the idea of an extended version of Winter Hill seemed about as exciting as watching paint dry. But I have the Holland 1980 CD now and infact it is the Winter Hill track that really towers over the rest. Absolutely amazing. Also...I found myself thinking during "Loss" that Brian Eno would probably rip his teeth out to get involved with what was going on there, and then I remembered that the band were actually named after an Eno track, and well...one doesn't want to say things like "Manchester's finest" because that could set off a firestorm of never ending debate but...

Also been listening to the Live In America 1985 CD and that shit is hot. Like they stuck a funk band in a frying pan, turned on the heat and told them to rock!

why do you guys always have to ask these difficult questions that will haunt me at night, I'll never get any sleep. :(

http://art-ificial.com/ilm/gramps.jpg

also, the dj played Shack Up last night. it was great.

http://www.art-ificial.com/ilm/gramps.jpg

Twice.

more anon.

i now own an MCR T-shirt. this is perhaps the greatest day of my life.

they played two new songs. one of them was awe-inspiring.

it's pencilled in for ... some time this week.

they played two new songs. one of them was awe-inspiring
We got four! On the basis of which I'd say the new LP (due end of 2006, folks) should be, at the very least, worth a listen.

Cheers
Mike

Hey, what album/single is this version of Knife Slits Water on? I can't find it anywhere ... I like it a lot better than the faster/higher pitched one on Sextet.

piece of crap youtube.

So yeah, if anyone knows what album/single that's on, if any, just uhhh, yeah, post it

it's on the Soul Jazz comp. Early.

http://www.souljazzrecords.co.uk/releases/?id=152

I just bought a plane ticket recently for this. Me? Excited?! I heard ACR haven't played in the US in 20 years. I definitely never thought I'd ever get to see them.

http://www.attheecho.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ptpfestrevised.jpg

I'll see you there.

Yeah, it will be cool to meet you in person, Dan!

Wow at that lineup.

Damn. You lucky shits.

they ALMOST had the Fire Engines as well. In any case, should be a blast. More guest "djs" have been added, included Kevin Pedersen from What's Your Rupture? who's coming out with Love is All.

There's also a pre-party of sorts the night before, Adult. are performing and Hang the DJs will DJ with the Part Time Punks guys and I'm gonna DJ some dance music, as opposed to the post-punk-esque 7"s I'll be playing in between bands during the show on sunday.

Will someone please tell me the name of that beautiful black woman who sang with them tonight? Was it really Denise Johnson as the myspace page might have me believe? Oh my god. And you're telling me that *gasp* the guy playing the soprano sax...is the same one...Quigley...the same one that...see I thought it was a different guy and that Quigley had left the band for some reason. I'm in awe. I'm in absolute awe. I don't believe I witnessed what I did tonight. I just don't fucking believe it.

They have a new album coming out, ya'll, they did new songs. And I have high hopes for this album. Oh yes I do. And they did "Flight" too. And "Wild Party". And Joy Division's "Heart & Soul". Oh yes they did.

They have a new album coming out, ya'll, they did new songs

Yeh, yeh. They told us that back in 2006, too.

Glad you saw them, though. God damn, that Optimo gig was a joy.

Yeh, yeh. They told us that back in 2006, too.

Oh you merciless party pooper! ;)

I adore Jeremy Kerr's voice. Just let me say that much right now. And when they did "Rialto", too, it was the same effect. They take me back into a place in my teenage years when I was at the college radio station, and they do that like no other band takes me back to that place. I just close my eyes, and I'm back there, in the dark, in a room no one else cared to be in, listening to ACR records for the first time.

And there is just no reason for a drummer as amazing as DoJo to exist. There is just no reason. Why? Why are we so blessed?

Not to discount Moscrop. I noticed this amazing riffage he was doing at times that tricked you into thinking it was a fucking bass guitar.

They have a new album coming out, ya'll, they did new songs

Yeh, yeh. They told us that back in 2006, too.

Oh you merciless party pooper! ;)

Hello, what's this:
http://www.cdmail.fr/gb/affich_fich.asp?refcdm=CDM859761 ???

I'll believe it when I'm holding a copy in my sweaty paw.

Which is reality ?

Ha, nice! That's a nod to Oceans, then?

I like that nobody in the background seems to care.

Amazon France now says the album will be out Nov. 27th. This is funny because yesterday it said Nov. 26th. I NEED IT NOW DAMNIT.

I just got the new album!!! There are a few tracks that are a bit boring and I think the new version of Rialto sounds a bit too cautious and slow, but most of it is really, really good and there a few absolute KILLER tracks. It's wonderful they've decided to go back to their roots, although I think "I Feel Light" is probably the only one that really sounds like it harks back to the darkness of Graveyard & Ballroom. There are plenty of echoes of Force in here, as well, which I think is wonderful. And they definitely haven't lost the funk! Denise's lead vocals on "Down, Down, Down" are to die for, though album-wise, Jez does most of the singing. "Teri" puts me on clouds it's such a beautiful tune. Donald's drums are produced very well on this album, too.

I'll probably have more to say later, but I don't get the impression this place is loaded with ACR fans so...

where 'this place' = planet earth

;)

did you have to preorder the cd or does Easy Street have copies?

I can't see why in the world Easy Street would have this. I had to get it through Amazon France, not even the US/UK arms of Amazon have it.

Anyone besides me have this yet?

With the pound plunging further against the euro than Tamira Paszek's neckline, I'll think I will wait for a UK release. Thanks for the review, though.

4 full songs now streaming on their MySpace page, true believers! I think they're gonna stream the whole LP eventually.

One of the new songs is called "Everything Is Good". I think that sums up neatly how I felt about what I was listening to. :)

Oh, nice one. Any news yet on where one might be able to get hold of a copy of this fucker?

Just leaked.

where is it leaking?

IN MY PANTS.

you'd get along well with my grandma!

just wait til bimble finds out

Playing "Some Day" off Change The Station now...and I'm on clouds. Oh my god. Have we established yet how this band rule?

Better fucking believe it bitchez

Flight, live 2005:

DID SOMEONE SAY POST PUNK?

Sometimes I wonder why I try to talk about this band here when so few on this board seem to even give a flying shite about them.

A Certain Ratio - performing "Wild Party" (probably my favourite song of them ever) and "Inside" in 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_8-ijfZA2w

hahhaa I already posted that in January! Oh shit, I'm so sorry LOLOLOLOLOL

so few on this board seem to even give a flying shite about them.

seriously? this thread has like 160 some posts.

Yeah, but there's too much me in here, man. Just sayin'. Thanks for posting.

I was watching 24 Hour Party People the other night - I forgot they were all over that. The scene with the shorts was hilarious.

Yeah, but there's too much me in here, man. Just sayin'.

and this is different from any other thread you post in, how?

Hahahahha

So, I've finally acquired a copy of Mind Made Up (or is/was it A Mind Made Up? Do a GIS for the cover and spot the differences). Do they actively not want people to hear this, or something?

Anyway. Looking forward to this, maybe a little unrealistically ...

It's great, innit? Everything Is Good is my new favourite ACR song of all time (that won't last, but still).

Seriously, though, what are they playing at? I'm rather hoping we can lure Martin Moscrop back to the thread because, y'know, arguments over distribution notwithstanding: it's the fucking 21st century and there are myriad ways to get an album heard, none of which they seem to be doing.

Certainly better than releasing it in France and hoping for the best.

haha amen, grimly

I would probably buy this if I saw it on iTunes. Which it isn't.

It mystifies me too why they don't do more to get their music heard. They'd be absolutely perfect on LTM. As a side note, a lot of the original factory crew seem to be undergoing creative renaissances. The last few releases by Durutti Column and especially Section 25 have been good to excellent.

Yep: they've been superb (although, in fairness, Vini's never really put a foot wrong).

Apparently Red Turns To ... have reformed: http://www.myspace.com/redturnsto. Fuck me.

I really like that Red Turn To EP. I wish there was more from that era.

There probably is and they'll just never let us hear it ;)

Anyone else heard the new album, Mind Made Up? Between that and the new Fall album, late seventies Manchester keeps bringing it.

Damn, that reissue of Force is so good.

Iv'e always loved Force even though it was almost universally panned at the time it came out. The record allows me to indulge my secret love of smooth funk-pop without feeling guilty. Has anyone heard any of the ARC stuff that came out on Rob's Records, the label Gretton ran for a brief time in the seventies, is it anything like their other records or is it more dance floor oriented?

timely revive, considering thread starter's display name

I bought Force when I was a nipper on-spec from HMV in Union Street Glasgow, just simply through the artwork being so damn good, it was on Factory *and* it was a nifty cassette box set. When I played it I was a bit let down that it wasn't at-all like JD or NO, I liked it a bit but generally would only listen to Mickey Way and Fever repeatedly. What an object though! I even rebought it on EBay a few years later even though I don't listen to cassettes.

Nowadays, with the absence of any kind of peer prssure, I am greatly digging those mid-eighties coffee table funk tones and pristine production, Corrine Drewery's (sp) voice on Bootsy is lovely too.

http://cerysmaticfactory.info/fact166c.html

I've just started James Nice's Factory Book too and looking forward to chewing on that.

Oh wow, hadn't heard about the book yet!

http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/shadowplayers_the_rise_and_fall_of_factory_records.html

A Factory book by James Nice? Me want now. Oh and Rob's Records were active eighties to early nineties, durr... I'll have to pick up that Rob's Records sampler from LTM.

the two people with their back to the camera in the bottom photo in that last link are trembling blue stars btw. apparently they were v excited about meeting peter saville, unsurprisingly

also in the bottom pic, the guy in the orange striped shirt and the bald guy in the long sleeve white button up are Vikings (johnny giles + 'emales' author alan jarvis).

oh i thought bald guy was bobby wratten, whoops

doppelgängers? I suppose I'm not sure. Would be cooler if it was Bobby Wratten so let's go with that.

Totally grooving to the "Early" comp tonight. I'm a bit forgiving with some of the lesser tracks on disc 1 but disc 2 is totally ace with some nifty dub experiments. Boy do I lurve me some post-punk dub...

I can't explain why but these guys kind of remind me of Captain Beyond.

email I just received today:

Strut presents FAC. DANCE, an essential new retrospective covering the dance output of Factory Records, the seminal Manchester record label founded by Tony Wilson, Alan Erasmus and designer Peter Saville.

The album turns the spotlight on some of the label's early dancefloor-based work across key 12" mixes and rarities, from the unmistakeable production style of Martin Hannett to pioneering studio work by New Order's Bernard Sumner and A Certain Ratio drummer Donald Johnson, under their BeMusic and DoJo monikers.

Early Factory experiments like Blurt's avant garde mutant funk blast 'Puppeteer' rub shoulders with the fertile post-Joy Division period as the label's unique, coruscating post-punk sound took shape on extended 12" cuts from A Certain Ratio, Section 25 and more. The album also expressly documents Factory's strong links and cross-pollination with New York's 1980s club culture, as New Order joined forces with producer Arthur Baker, fresh from his pioneering electro work with Afrika Bambaataa, while Quando Quango and Marcel King enlisted NY remixer Mark Kamins for tough-edged club treatments. Factory artists including Quando Quango would also perform at some of the city's seminal nightspots, including the Paradise Garage.

The compilation also touches on some of the wider dancefloor directions explored by Factory during its early years - the latin jazz funk of Swamp Children and Kalima, the cool British soul of Tony Henry's 52nd Street and a track from Factory's only overtly reggae single, the Dennis Bovell-produced 'See Them A'Come' by X-O-Dus. Within FAC. DANCE are contained the grooves that would provide the blueprint for the Manchester scene of the late '80s and Factory's heady later years - Happy Mondays, James, Northside and the rest.

FAC. DANCE is compiled and annotated by Bill Brewster of djhistory.com and produced in association with Factory Records Ltd.

"Do The Du" sounds kind of like "Immigrant Song." (Way worse singer, though.)

This is great. More of a new tune than a remix. Wish ACR would go into the studio more often.

https://soundcloud.com/barryadamsonselections/i-got-clothes-acrmcr-rework

Oh look they just did.

new:acr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=220&v=wrwjo2v-F3s

try again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrwjo2v-F3s

also featuring Tony Wilson at the start!

acr:set incidentally is a career-spanning comp that will be released on October 12th

acr:box to be released next month, including:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc_7s3G_IIc
Fairly faithful to the original, sounds great though I wish Grace Jones would have finished her vocal take..

Two versions as well, I wonder what the difference is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRGhm8KKbk

This is surprisingly great, not familiar with their 21st century work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vIQafS1RQE