What's the hipster attraction to obscure reggae?

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So I was amazed to see that the new Cedric IM Brooks compilation had topped the Other Music sales chart in NYC (can't find weird, foreign shit in Phoenix, so I have to check my ol' NYC pro shop's Web site). And this week, it's at #4. Beyond one obvious aspect -- there's some amazing and compelling work on the disc, Good for Cedric -- what would be the commercial attraction to these island collections? My cynicism tells me that a lot of folks want to seem withit for their dinner-party guests and stoner-buddies, so they use these discs for shelf adhesive. Remember the Fela revival a few years back? Me, I get sent the shit but would probably be predisposed to buying it anyway.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

it's summer

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

what the hell kind of question is this?
i'm sorry but seriously, what kind of answer are you looking for?

― xnelio, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Just wondering, that's all. No real agenda other than that.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:32 (twenty-two years ago)

also, it's getting reissued -----> it's getting stocked ---------> it's getting bought

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

plus the kids have learned to trust that 'soul jazz' label

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:35 (twenty-two years ago)

also the validity of other music's charts shouldn't be taken at face value

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd say it's the weed.

― Ian Johnson (elmo oxygen), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, I've always though that paying attention to what's selling there is a pretty good guage is a good indicator of which way the winds are blowing in rock-crit land and in below-the-Justin Timberlake circles. You can say "well duh, shit gets reissued so people buy it in droves," but there's prolly a ton of stuff in there that doesn't move anything, including items they feature/review. For instance -- I bought a JPT Scare Band disc from the psychedelia bin once that they raved about, and I may perhaps have been the only one that did. So I don't believe the trends in there are isolated to a group of 40 eggheads that live in the village and hang together.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Can't say I fully buy the weed cliche at this level, because for the unambitious, and even for the ambitious, Legend does more than just fine for that.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:45 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, just that those charts arent' exactly a completely accurate berometer of what's actually selling there, it is an accurate berometer of what other music's pushing though (although the weekly new release e-mail is an even better indicator obv.)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

and again soul jazz soul jazz soul jazz

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:47 (twenty-two years ago)

dub is everywhere in the indie-circles from !!! to chain reaction. the kids want to know where it's coming from

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

and soul jazz has a pretty damn immaculate record

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

agreed

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:50 (twenty-two years ago)

True, I suppose -- that's why that store is cool, cuz it has that barometer factor plus sells like old Alain Toussant records, but people en masse still do buy them. We'll see -- if Brooks is still on there in six weeks, it'll have a definite life of its own.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe people like, like the music?

Yeah, weird question. You "would be predisposed to buy it", but can't figure out why people are attracted to it? WTF?

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:52 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, the music is at least 80% of why - is accessible but obscure: have cake + eat it too.

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason D -- I think you've probably made a salient point I hadn't fully grasped at this late hour ... this whole dancehall, dub revival could be driving it. But is the Brooks record really dub? On the level of the Bug, or the Scratch Perry stuff. It's pretty out there as a construct. So it's peripheral. Perhaps it all counts.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I write about this shit for a living, so I may buy it on deaf ears anyway for kicks. So I guess I'm separating myself from the average consumer. Doesn't mean I'm hot shit; I just perceive record stores a little differently now, that's all.

Weird? ILM? A shock ... bear with me. ;-)

― Chris O., Tuesday, 12 August 2003 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always thought the other music weekly e-mail is one of the more influential music 'publications' in america

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:00 (twenty-two years ago)

there's almost always been a huge reggae/dub influence in the indie scene. clash, gang of four, slits, (i'm blanking on the mid to later 80s, but i'm sure it's there) and then in the 90s post rock exploded and kids were listening to tortoise and rome.

and outside of the indie circles (probably not the types that shop at other music) there's always been a huge influence of reggae and dancehall on hip hop.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:01 (twenty-two years ago)

it's definitely much more pronounced now than it was in 1993 though (hip-hop or indie)(esp. indie though)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I've always thought the other music weekly e-mail is one of the more influential music 'publications' in america

i learn most of what i know about new music from other music and aquarius. if it weren't for their sound clips, it'd just be another bunch of reviews

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I could see that as being true, actually. The cool store in the Village has leverage in being the tail that wags the dog, and those folks run a hell of a shop -- I'm glad they're there to at least be a potential conduit for a guy like Brooks.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:03 (twenty-two years ago)

other music's and aquarius' e-mails have definitely influenced my music, um, acquisitions more than any other source

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

more than any other source besides ilm and a few blogs that is

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not discounting the influence of those things at all, but that's the derivative shit. This involves the source material, which maybe was inevitable, who knows? Again, this all is just a product of my curiosity. No agendas beyond that.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I went more than two years between music-journalism-related day jobs, and Other Music was my pro shop and life blood in the meantime. Hugely influential in my life.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:08 (twenty-two years ago)

it's definitely much more pronounced now than it was in 1993 though (hip-hop or indie)

hello, BDP, Poor Righteous Teachers, Fu-Schnickens(maybe i forget?), even Phife used a dancehall voice a bunch. shit it was on NWA songs, probably some Cypress Hill tracks and wasn't there a song that sampled Ring My Bell. it's always been there in hip hop

but yes, 2003 is the year dancehall really broke through

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Cypress Hill did some amazing experimentation with dub effects in their stuff. Good reference point. Even Biggie would drop tiny hints of dancehall in his cadences from time to time ..,

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:11 (twenty-two years ago)

a lot of these guys in NY have family from the islands.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 05:13 (twenty-two years ago)

People like good music that they haven't heard before and like 'discovering' music that's been forgotten, especially if it something a lil different from the mainstream.
Couldn't you ask 'What's the hipster attraction to obscure anything?'

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 07:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus, if you like reggae of a certain vintage which isn't produced any longer, you're basically forced to dig deeper, into lesser-known records, in order to find new music.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 07:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I trust Soul Jazz more than I trust most reissue labels, and will often pick up a disc of theirs and think oh, that looks interesting - I think there are probably a lot of people like me around, in that sense,

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 08:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm waiting for the hipster spotlight to shine on vangelis.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:13 (twenty-two years ago)

strut used to be a fabulous reissue label - you could pretty much count on at least 75 per cent pearlers on a any of their compilations... plus soul jazz temd to put a bunch of stuff on their comps that you should, and quite likely do, already own then suck you in two or three really rare tracks you feell you have to own... still it's a cheap way of getting hold of them and the albums are a good listen, but you used to get more VFM (ie more new tracks) with strut!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm more black than you are, dude.
No you're not, I've got some Bob Marley records.
Fucking hell.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Looks better like this...

http://monkeydyne.com/rmcs/opencomic.phtml?rowid=38571

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Shit.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

How do i post the Red Meat strip directly into the thread?

Here's the link anyway.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, the attraction is IT SOUNDS GOOD. The thing about reggae is, unlike other so-called obscure obscure musics which so-called hipsters are allegedly attracted to, reggae is very accessible and popular music.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

But they sing about burnin' and lootin' and bafflin' smoke signals and the uprising of the oppressed and the casting of Babylon into the fiery pit!

― dave q, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, you don't listen to lyrics anymore do you, how passe.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:23 (twenty-two years ago)

That's why I'm not qualified to be a hipster!

― dave q, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, Desmond Dekker's "The Israelites" was a huge Number 1 hit in the UK in 1967 and not even Jamaicans know what that song was about!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:35 (twenty-two years ago)

hip : obscure :: mainstream : obvious

― nader (nader), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:51 (twenty-two years ago)

except it's not supposed to be that obvious...

― nader (nader), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris, are you a hipster?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

strut used to be a fabulous reissue label - you could pretty much count on at least 75 per cent pearlers on a any of their compilations

damned straight... Harmless too... their 'doing the james brown' was killer; did they do the 'i'm a good girl' comps? or Fight The Power?

― stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I guess I am a hipster. What the hell, it's a fun term to throw around.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

um, but if you say you're a hipster, i'm pretty sure you can't actually be one.

unless of course, not-being-a-hipster is the new hipster, in which case you have just become one.

― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Um, by that logic, I'm somwhere in the gray matter of the middle ... dope!!! ;-)

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick's Haiku, btw, captures a large chunk of my sentiment about these things.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm waiting for the hipster spotlight to shine on vangelis

funny thing, it already has. all the prog listening hipsters found out he was in a band called Aphrodite's Child

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

plus Sigur Ros

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

and aphex twin

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Vangelis, Aphex Twin and Sigur Ros ... now there's a tour waiting to happen.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

romanticism for island super cool? i mean, whose cooler than a rastafarian jammin some good little pop tunes? add words like "obscure", "classic", and "re-issue" to your promo and you're on your way to selling a few records to the indie set. add 10 points if you can connect it to sun ra or serge gainesbourg. "ornette coleman's island project!" "angus maclise on bongos." add another 10 points for proto-electro sounds. (see "brigitte fontaine and areski"...)

― msp, Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

add 10 points if you can connect it to sun ra or serge gainesbourg

you mean like his reggae album?

http://vagabondage.musical.free.fr/images/douce%20france/gainsbourg_aux_armes.jpg

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

add another 10 points for proto-electro sounds. (see "brigitte fontaine and areski"...)

this album, is sooooo killer.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/enotero/vou_nous.jpg

damn, i'm racking up the hipster points! woo hoo!

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

or what about fontaine's album with the Art Ensemble of Chicago?

http://www-public.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de/~kucklae/images/commem.jpg

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Are most people who are buying reggae reissues also buying current dancehall releases by Elephant Man et al, or are they buying them instead of dancehall? Just wondering...

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't speak for everybody, but for a long time, i was only buying the old stuff. i dug the production sounds and the analog equipment. most of the stuff i was buying was from the 70s and early 80s. (mad professor, On-U sound, Wackies)

but just recently i've (through the help of ILM) started really getting into current dancehall. i think it's partially from me being able to opening my eyes/ears to pop music. i'm not saying dancehall is poppy, because a lot of it is actually not very accessible (although it is dancey), but i've learned to appreciate modern production sounds.

― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that is generally the case--lots of indie-rock hipsters (except for those on ILM!) only care about older Jamaican sounds(Lots of white jam band fans seem to like old funk but not current hiphop I've noticed). Also, I wonder if anyone under the age of 30 in Jamaica cares about dub. Are there any young producers there employing dub?

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Jamaicans know what "The Israelites" is about...

Sorry that was snarky...I'll pretend I didn't do that. I've often wondered about this particular obsession too. I don't think that hipsters are attracted to obscure reggae. All that golden era 70s stuff is pretty non-obscure. All the 60s and 70s stuff has been picked carefully through and reissued accordingly. Soul Jazz, Pressure Sounds, Blood and Fire...all sorts of labels do a wonderful job. Thing is, I'm always shocked at the disdain or complete disinterest in 80s, 90s, or current music coming out of Jamaica. Dudes who sit around talking about how wicked Lee Perry's production style is ("check out that sound right...right...there it is...fucking amazing, eh?? David Katz wrote in "People Funny Boy" that Perry made that sound by hitting a can or beans with a shoe while standing on his head and kicking the drummer!") often complain that so many people "don't know reggae beyond Marley and Peter Tosh," but they don't know what the hell a soundclash is. This lack of respect for, well, pretty much all dancehall, prevents people from realizing numerous things...hip hop is not only influenced by reggae, hip hop is a DIRECT DESCENDENT of dancehall...the remix IS A JAMAICAN INVENTION...raves were once called sessions and they were first held IN JAMAICA...AND Sizzla's "Da Real Thing" should be as popular as "Dutty Rock."

I wrote a wee article on the need for more 80s dancehall comps in the new issue of "Under Pressure" mag...that is, if you want to read more of my opinion--I've been told I "go on and on" here, so I'll stop before I get ahead of myself.

oh...One more thing: No one in Jamaica cares about "dub" (as a type of music on its own--this is definition I think people are using). When Mr. Perry won the Grammy this year there were all sorts of radio and tv shows in Jamaica discussing Lee Perry and NO ONE had any idea who he was.

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

cybele do you have a blog?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

cuz if so I want to read it

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah 4real

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

also that lee perry thing makes me happier than i can express.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Pato Banton!!!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 01:55 (twenty-two years ago)

That is pretty amazing that Perry slips through the Jamaican worship cracks. That guy is incredible! The Congos' "Heart of the Congos" has become one of my favorite records.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 04:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Coincidentally, I'm assuming folks here have heard the Cedric Brooks record, right? I wouldn't call it sraight dub ... more like a mosaic of a whole lot of shit. Another thing that makes it an unusual mass buy.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

one more vote for a Cybele blog

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 05:05 (twenty-two years ago)

do it cybele!

― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 05:14 (twenty-two years ago)

NOW!

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 06:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Do any of you folks read the magazine "The Beat", published out of LA ??? It was once called Reggae and African Beat. While it would be easy to snear at their inclusion of a Haile Salasie(spelling?) quote each issue and their annual Bob Marley issue contains features only of interest to the most hardcore Marley fanatics, they also do an annual dancehall issue, and feature a column on dancehall, plus another one on current and reissued reggae. They also have a column on Congolese music, another one on a variety of new and reissued afropop, a North African one, a Brazilian one, and a Calypso, soca, konpa one.

As an aside, if one of us was somehow able to magically give Kanye West, Just Blaze, Timbaland, or the Neptunes some old Lee Perry and other fine dub stylee efforts do you think they could find a way to incorporate the echoing technique and bring the production method forward to the present in a different manner than the Bug.... Also, surely someone who is creating today's dancehall rhythms is music nerdy enough to know the past and also might migure out a way to bring that approach back. Or maybe not. Maybe it just won't work.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

That should be "figure" not "migure." The last time I checked the Beat magazine did not have much of a website, nor did its reggae n dancehall contributors(no blogs that I know of either)....

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Marlon Regis is a great writer--he edits the annual dancehall issue. His interview with Sizzla a couple of years back was ace.

Re: present day producers using "dub" techniques. There's a lotta riddims that are remakes of old studio one tunes. The Queen Majesty riddim that I've been so completely all about this summer (aside: Sizzla's "Just One of Those Days" is classic--and I heard it on Flow 93.5--the urban station in Toranna--so hopefully....) is a remake of an old Techniques tune from way back in the 60s. The production methods pioneered by Perry ARE still being used. Maybe people aren't throwing stuff at theit mixing board, but every soundsystem worth its salt uses delay, repeats, sound effects, etc.

Some fun older clashes:
http://www.reggaeweb.com/classicclash/

(The Rodigan clash gave birth to my deep desire for a t-shirt with "I've got a bag full of Sleng Teng and nothing's gonna stop me" on it)

People are taking into account the history of the music...it's just that dub as a stand-alone thang is really an English phenom. After all, who's reissuing the stuff?

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

If you listen to self-assembled mixes of a lot of those folks (yay friends of mine who have provided), they already feel like dub mix discs without actually worshipping at said altar. Which I think is a good thing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

For the record, the Cedric Brooks record is one Honest Jon's, not Soul Jazz.

Have you seen the Honest Jon's vinyl? IMMACULATE.

For the record, I think it's selling because it is DELIRIOUSLY AWESOME and prolly the BEST REISSUE OF THE YEAR.

― david day (winslow), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - you're right; anytime I see Other Music give love to a reggae reissue I just assume it's Soul Jazz

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes it bothers me that i still want to hear that keith hudson reissue on basic channel

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Sadly Im reminded the record store next door has closed down. Oh well.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

sometimes it bothers me that i still want to hear that keith hudson reissue on basic channel

why would it bother you?? a used copy came in to amoeba and i had the reggae buyer put it on hold for me. i'm totally excited to hear it.

― JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

indie guilt.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Pato Banton!!!

Damn, I forgot about Pato Banton. "My name is Pato Banton, and this is my religion..." Haven't heard that in years...

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 13 August 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

that Keith Hudson is great, as advertised...

― M Specktor (M Specktor), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Anybody hear "Rhythm and Sound" on Basic Channel? it's supposedly minimalist German electronica meets King Tubby...

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Anybody hear "Rhythm and Sound" on Basic Channel?

i have "Showcase" and it's pretty badass. make sure to get their releases with Tikiman. it's not actually on Basic Channel, rather, it's on Burial Mix, but the two guys that make the music, Moritz Von Oswald and Mark Ernestus, used to be Basic Channel and Maurizio. it pretty much sounds like dubbed out minimal techno (think pole and the rest of the basic channel crew) with someone toasting on top. after a while, all the minimal dubby techno started sounding samey to me, so the addition of a vocalist really added something for me.

― JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

it bothers me because i haven't really listened to dub in years, and i'm not sure if i ever really liked it as much as i tried to convince myself i did when i was 20, but when i read about how bad-ass it supposedly is in all the worst hipster forums (and the wire) i am shamed by how quickly i crumble in the face of common sense.

"showcase" is indeed badass, if something that doesn't really do more than sort of sway gently back and forth in a harddrive can be badass.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Honest Jon's

Damon Albarn's label, right? Christ, is he turning into Mick Hucknall or wot?

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

the remix IS A JAMAICAN INVENTION

Puffy's from Jamaica? I thought he claimed Brooklyn

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The Rough Guide to Hip-Hop sez money-earnin' Mount Vernon

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Argh...The Rough Guide to Hip Hop...one of the most annoying books ever.

J0hn...nice. I laughed.

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Get it right ... Puffy invented reggae ... and DVDs ... and ATM cards, too.

And yup, Brooks is suprememly awesome, but it still peaks my curiosity as to how someone 1. knows to look his way and 2. how the process of getting a whole of others to do so begins, outside of basic word of mouth. Yeah, I know, I've inspired a lot of "no shit, shtoilock" answers with this thread, but it's just interesting to think about -- cuz Afghani folk singers make good music, too, but who's buying them (besides XGau and Milo Miles)?

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

And, hey, I'm assuming the fact this thread is actually approaching triple digits means that obscure reggae is attractive to ILM. :-)

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

but there's only been a handful of posters here

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I was being flip ... but this thread is bit more diverse in terms of voices than some I've seen.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:28 (twenty-two years ago)

but i've been reading. and for a moment there i wasn't sure if i had to throw away all my lee perry discs cos i like dancehall...

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps the choice of language in the question was a little incendiary. Be my guest -- dig dancehall like the rest of us. ;-)

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, throw them all away. No, wait, just give them to me and I'll 'dispose' of them.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, get a dancehall collection bin going on account of my shtick ...

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

also i think calling perry a dub producer is like saying john lennon was a guitarist.

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

True ... definitely. Perry was a musical mind and a half, for sure. My old roommate tells me there's some album that was released this year full of early marley tracks produced by Perry. Whoa!!

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

were there ANY dub producers?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"dub producer" is a bit of a redundancy ... how do you think we get dub in the first place? Cuz the producer messes around with a mixing baord. So a salient point ...

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, I meant that no producer that I know of made true dubs. It's always the engineer, ie Tubby, Scientist, Jammy, Errol T, etc.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 August 2003 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

My old roommate tells me there's some album that was released this year full of early marley tracks produced by Perry

ouch

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Ouch?

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

wasn't that sarcasm?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, but Tubby, Scientist, and Jammy are all producers...

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:13 (twenty-two years ago)

But they weren't producers, no?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:15 (twenty-two years ago)

good point, maybe. were they still all engineers when they did the dubs (ie on other folks productions) or did they dub up their own productions?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

May I step in at this point to suggest that, if my memory serves me correctly, Perry definitely produced the records which he (later in his career) began to revisit and dub up? Also, that the distinction between producing and engineering is by no means clear to many producers and engineers? And this can lead to arguments over credits.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I love The RG to Hip-Hop for precisely the reasons I suspect Cybele hates it

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Personally, I trust Other Music to separate the chaff when it comes to reggae because I've been happy with their recommendations, simple as that. I don't know if a lot of people feel the same, but I would imagine so. For instance, I'm really diggin Dennis Bovell Decibel.

In hip hop, the definition of "producer" is a little more fluid, meaning "one who makes beats" and so to call those dub guys producers makes sense to me retroactively.

― scott m (mcd), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ha the rough guide to hip-hop and the rough guide to drum & bass are like my perpetual toilet reading

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 14 August 2003 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Not sarcasm on my part -- there actually is a disc out of Marley produced by Perry. My buddy tells me it's fascinating.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

An auspicious partnership. See Bob's second (I think) album Soul Rebel.

― scott m (mcd), Thursday, 14 August 2003 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, reading about drum 'n' bass would wanna make me take a dump, too ...

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

or african herbsman.
are you talking about prev. unavailable/unknown stuff chris?

― gaz (gaz), Thursday, 14 August 2003 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Yup, that's the stuff I mean.

― Chris O'Connor (Chris O'Connor), Thursday, 14 August 2003 03:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Cybele if you ever want to do blog stuff but don't fancy having your own then there is a place for you on the NYLPM team!

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 14 August 2003 10:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris is probably talking about this... although there have been lots of collections of that stuff. It's basically the early, original versions of a lot of the tracks that later turned up in slicker, more produced form on the Island albums. Reggae fetishits usually venerate it as Marley's purest, rawest stuff. But it is really good nevertheless. Scratch doesn't do much in the way of crazy production--the dubs are pretty much just instrumental versions. But the Wailers harmonies sound amazing and the music is direct and simple. If you can't bear to listen to any of Marley's Island stuff anymore, you'd probably enjoy it.

― Ben Williams, Thursday, 14 August 2003 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes perhaps the Perry specialist's preferred version would be this one: http://www.recordstore.co.uk/trojan/showdetails.jsp?Product=RS61272:1:24AD9QZ

Of course it's not really complete (where's "Punky Reggae Party", eh?) but "Who Colt The Game" was the revelation to me from that set.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 14 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Just writing to say thanks to all the folks who suggested that they'd be interested in hearing what ever I dump out from my head. I'm one of those people who is CONVINCED that I'm NOT a writer. I sit in the corner doing my copy editing...as such, your comments are much appreciated.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, reading about drum 'n' bass would wanna make me take a dump, too ...

didn't you say you were one of those guys that's seen phish, like, 900 times?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and the Silvertones rehearsal of "Feel All Right" on the Lee Perry "Born in the Sky" reissue (Motion Records) is divine.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 14 August 2003 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

Anybody listening to CIAfrica? DJ Rupture released it and Pitchfork just 'em.

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 03:55 (fifteen years ago)

Just reviewed 'em.

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 September 2010 03:56 (fifteen years ago)

can't find it on emusic -- yet, at least. want it. i only listen to the most obscure reggae.

― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 7 September 2010 03:58 (fifteen years ago)

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