C/D: Pseudo-lesbian kisses between pop stars for shock value

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Anyone see the beginning of the MTV Video awards last night? A full-on smooch between Madonna and Britney as the 'big surprise'.

DUD. Insulting.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Taking sides: that vs. Michael Jackson/Lisa Marie Presley

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry, I missed this thread, but this is more specific. I probably should have contributed there.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 12:29 (twenty-two years ago)

If neither slipped the other the tongue, then it doesn't count.
Besides...isn't Madonna old enough to be Britney's MOM?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

But Custos does that not only make it hotter!

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought it was lame though how they panned to Justin Timberlake's reaction in lieu of showing the Xtina/Madge smooch...I can't really explain why though.*

*yes I can it's cuz I wanted more fakey lezzing up

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

this just proves that Madonna is so over

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.

just hearing those words has got me in a sweat.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i think the whole lezzing up for publicity thing is a bit old though and dull, and kinda pointless (if occassionaly hot). i mean how much further can they take this thing? fistings?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Fucking absolute classic. Loved it. Cheered it on. And in my world, Madonna will never be "over."

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe they are trying to appeal to an indie audience

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

But Custos does that not only make it hotter!
Euuuwwww. No. It's like:
"C'mon, Britney, let me take off my support pantyhose and you can lick my liver spots." says Madonna before her false teeth fall out.

Britney looked like she wanted it...classic.
Anything to further her career, nick. Anything to further her career.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

why oh why do people who are only doing [__________] to be fashionable still carry on doing so long after it is no longer fashionable?

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Odd how Britney seemed to completely vanish from the proceedings aftewards.....much like her career these days.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

wow this thread is
statler waldorf massive versus
horny teenagers

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The only shocking thing on the awards show was the snippet of Asia's "Only Time Will Tell" before announcing the nominees for Best Video.

― BrianB, Friday, 29 August 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

So basically women should only get it on within their age group? Holy vanilla-city, Batman.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, mark s and Bob Shaw are voicing my thoughts.

The mother-daughter implications either make it better or worse. Still dealing with that.

They should have had Liz Phair up there; she would have willingly participated, and it would have given further depth to the career-ending feel.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

rock'roll = middle-aged men standing as far away from each other as possible

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not voicing yr thoughts, SL, i'm voicing the contradiction in yr "thoughts": yr hostility to same-sex kissing — ie it's only acceptable as a "radical art gesture" — is as silly as custos's kneejerk ageism

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

rock'roll = middle-aged men standing as far away from each other as possible

mark s wins ilx forever, thanks for playing everybody

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this mean the most radical rock gesture would be for Van The Man to snog his tour guitarist onstage with tongues?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ok i just realised how i cd also read yr thread question as making the same point as me after all

(ie the insult = not the "fakeness" but the "big moment"-ness, when it is actually something which should just be considered routine and unhottly everywhere)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:39 (twenty-two years ago)

no Tom a rock artist could fuck a shovel onstage and it would go down in legend and lore

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

though I hate to go into details Ronan I must tell you that the scenario you cite does NOT go over well in Sligo

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Shovels are in short supply there.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the great shovel famine

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

thats basically it. its not a big moment at all. its normal behaviour. yet for 2 popstars, its a big deal. i mean is the world really still shocked by a lesbian kiss. i havent seen the clip yet, so i can't really comment much more than that. im not saying a woman to woman kiss can't be hot, but the thought of madonna and britney kissing in some supposedly grand jesture, i find that pretty unsexy.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

but if everything is unhottly there'd be no reason to watch TV anymore!

― dave q, Friday, 29 August 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Who says it is a grand gesture of anything? Maybe they are really a couple. Why does no one else think about this? Except for me, when I masturbate, I guess.

― Ally-zay (mlescaut), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna could kiss ME and I wouldn't find it sexy - she would of course

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does no one else think about this? Except for me, when I masturbate, I guess.
now thats hott

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Melissa Etheridge was asked about TaTu and she said something to the effect of "The fact that these two girls are using homosexuality IN ORDER TO SELL albums is fantastic." Basically, it's about fucking time we can "profit" from being dykes. I could give a shit if it's a "gesture." And Ally, I share your jerk-off fodder. If that were me Madonna was groping, I'd have masturbation fodder for the rest of my life. Sex would be unnecessary.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

grand jesters are totally hot

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ok i just realised how i cd also read yr thread question as making the same point as me after all

(ie the insult = not the "fakeness" but the "big moment"-ness, when it is actually something which should just be considered routine and unhottly everywhere)

Yes, this is what I mean. Same-sex kissing is as good as all kissing. But for shock value, when totally false, it is a dud. It's not even shocking.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont care if they're profiting from it, i just find the thought of madonna and britney kissing profoundly unsexy (that said i havent seen the clip yet)! and im a guy who finds pint glasses sexy! and sometimes the fact that it is such a grand jesture can take the wind out of the sails of hottness. like the sex scene in the matrix reloaded - that was crap, cos it was supposed to be so big and meaningful, but wheres the love? i couldnt feel the romance. im not opposed to people making grand statements of jestures, they can be very powerful, but madonna and britney, i don't feel it.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

But for shock value, when totally false, it is a dud
OTM.

Con -fucking -trived.
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/08/29/arts/29mtv.184.jpg

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

it's being boring is in that case a tremendous sex-pol victory and should be celebrated not attacked

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

if britney juggled 4x4 jeeps people here would still be whinging about how contrived it was.

lets face it most of you are starting from the finish line here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 13:59 (twenty-two years ago)

jeezus why have i been spelling gesture wrong all thru this thread.

yeah after seeing that picture im definately still on the DUD side. id be more turned on by Barney the dinosaur bukkake.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Same-sex kissing is as good as all kissing.

I can't tell if you're nuts or the most socially advanced person I've ever encountered.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh and Ronan OTM. Why am I bothering?

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Odd how Britney seemed to completely vanish from the proceedings aftewards.....much like her career these days.
She ran back to her trailer on a mad quest for mouthwash.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what makes a kiss pseudo lesbian aswell, you'd swear the people moaning about this were staunchly principled pro-lesbian types when really that very thought is psychotic

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:04 (twenty-two years ago)

yes custos the person here who is hostile to and frightened of lesbians is of course britney

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeanne Fury, I don't get it. This kind of minstrel-show kissing gives homophobics an out - a way to feel "OK with it", but still deeply discomforted by any show of real passion by two women (or men). It widens the gulf between the two feelings. I would think it's insulting. Of course, I don't know shit firsthand, and set me straight if so.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Who said anything about hostility toward lesbians?
I just don't think Madonna is sexy anymore.
(The gap between her two front teeth keeps growing and growing and growing...)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i pretty much agree with southern lights there. where the love gone eh?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't tell if you're nuts or the most socially advanced person I've ever encountered.

Probably somewhere in between, closer to nuts. What's so radical about my statement? Again, I don't get it.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does there have to be love or passion when people kiss onstage?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

This kind of minstrel-show kissing gives homophobics an out - a way to feel "OK with it", but still deeply discomforted by any show of real passion by two women (or men). It widens the gulf between the two feelings

How in the name of long departed logic is this the case?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

has anyone here never kissed a friend for a laugh, or shock horror, flirted with a lifestyle that's not their own! heaven forbid musicians do this!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

''rock'roll = middle-aged men standing as far away from each other as possible''

and?

I don't find anything shocking nowdays and they are hardly knocking down 'barriers' with this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to admit I got a tingle in the penis.

― Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does there have to be love or passion when people kiss onstage?
there doesnt, if its well acted, the audience can often get an even stronger feeling off of it (like in every good movie love scene ever). i somehow doubt this is the case with britney and madonna though.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not the calculatedness that makes me cringe it's that Madonna doesn't seem like the one doing the calculating. Where is the haughty arrogance of yesteryear?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

There doesn't have to be love or passion; it's just not some kind of "big moment" if there isn't. Or even if there is (although I would find the announcement that Madonna is actually dating Britney somewhat shocking). The basis for this thread is the "big moment"-ness of the event. It was not intended to pass judgement on whether same-sex kissing is acceptable or not! (Although, I admit, the value judgement was going to get drawn into the discussion)

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

SL, I definitely see where you're coming from. There was a time not too long ago when I would have agreed with you. Of course, I would love it that much more if say, two bona fide lesbians had a chance to do something like this. But that ain't gonna happen...yet. When Melissa Etheridge pointed it out that even the smallest hint of girl-love was completely unthinkable in the past -- something you HID because it would ruin your career if people ever knew -- and now that very same thing is being used to HELP your career, well, it sort of shed a new light on it for me. Sincerity be damned -- just let us in the door already.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a powerful enough image, that's two of the most famous people in the world kissing in the middle of a performance, you can say big deal all you want but I'm sure half the earth has seen that picture today.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

that little bitch

― S Bernhard, Friday, 29 August 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

S/D celebrity homoerotic kisses you would like to see

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ts:
openly gay roles bravely being taken by openly gay actors
vs
openly gay roles ambitiously being grabbed by non-gay actors

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:22 (twenty-two years ago)

haha an earlier version read:
openly gay PARTS ambitiously being grabbed by non-gay actors

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

The first draft always ~~sucks~~...needs revising.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

S/D celebrity homoerotic kisses you would like to see:

George Bush, Dick Cheney, Trent Lott, and Pat Buchanan getting manhandled by Turbonegro. No, I'm not kidding.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Who says it was for "shock value"? The intent seemed to be more "boner value".

And the whole thing was both hot and innocious. It didn't come at some big musical crescendo, and the people involved sort of treated it as no big deal, certainly not as a "grand gesture." There wasn't really much buildup, and it wasn't treated as a climax or anything. The real big moment seemed to come exactly one second later when Missy ran out and wrecked shit in some sort of hybrid tuxedo/Adidas sweatsuit.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:29 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM about Missy; she completely outclassed them.

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(ilm's relationship with female musicians in so far down the crapper it's lapping the shoreline outside the waste treatment center shocker.)

ronan, tom, and mark s (and by extension i guess the guy who started the thread) otm here.

madonna's glorious trump card (which probably makes her the culmination of a certain strain of 20th century thought rather than a 21st century figure) is always that whenever someone steps forward to call whatever she does hackneyed or boring or contrived it's with such indignation and contempt that she's already won.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Why didn't Missy get any action :(

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Its pretty funny the way xtina is standing there while the two of them kiss.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

tom celebrities who are ACTUAL lesbians are notorious reticent about it!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

cf. queen latifah

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

and jessica simpson.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

and mandy moore. (he sez hopefully.) (biggest and most ironic so SUE me ever.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yes it was contrived and calculated and cynical and pandering and yes why didn't we get the same action btwn Justin and Simon Lebon, yes to all that.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

also it was FUCKING HOTTT!!!!

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Xtina got her kiss next, Julio.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You know Britney would be Madonna's slave bitch in an instant if the opportunity presented itself, too.

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

other shocking kisses from the VMAs

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030829/capt.1062131679.mtv_awards_xnyr111.jpg

and the moon man is all like, "DAMN, girl! what the fuck is up with your HAT?!"

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate the whole "realness" fetish at work, if people want to play roles or be something else then they should be able to, life is not so cut and dried.

The irony also is that the same people who are saying it's a meaningless, are taking it seriously enough to assume it's meant to be anything more. It's no less vacuous than most onstage gestures, it's a power based in the image and nothing else really. You can't dissect mass visual impact, or if you can we're not doing it very well here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

drop top caddy

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

MISSY RIPPING THE GOLF RAVE STYLE SHOCKER

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though when do we get to see Em & 50 lezzing up?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

ah, ok Jeanne.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

goddammit ronan you ruined the WORST pun i've ever made

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously though when do we get to see Em & 50 lezzing up?
Their love is for them alone, and their luvvv revolution will not be televised.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha okay I'm getting into the spirit of it. This is exactly what suburban mothers imagine is going to happen if their daighters move to New York, they're going to start wearing trashy clothes and kissing Madonna, so I'm all for increasing these fears, naturally, no matter whose idea it was.

Oh well I guess I need to see it on one of the 1000 re-runs next month, fuck fucking Time Warner Cable.

strongo you needed an extra comma in your pun between "top" and "caddy"

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah well i'm working without a script here

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

it was a crosspost that slipped through the net like a thief in the night

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

when a body meets another body acomin through the rye

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

madonna kissing guy ritchie and britney kissing fred durst is surely far more shocking.

― adam b (adam b), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

when that happens it is a real gesture, unlike madonna and britney, those too bodies were clearly in love, and rye is far more natural than pop music.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

It would've had so much more frisson if it was Britney and Christina. I'm like, damn, didn't Maddy make her point about this already? "Justify My Love," Sex, Erotica, the Marlene Deitrich homages, etc.? But B + C are still growing up in public in ways that Madonna left behind a decade ago. B + C are kinda sorta rivals in ways M + B and M + C are not, and a kiss between two quasi-rivals would've been hotly weird.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

totally, the tension would have been off the scale.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

britney & xtina getting it on would be the most incredible thing ever

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I would have pissed myself. Definitely.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The ultimate would be Xtina and Britney but then the universe would explode or whatever. Madonna is like not JUST the mack pimp who gets to kiss both of them on the same night, but the mystical medium that connects the two: through her body Xtina and Britney kiss each other indirectly

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

harmony of the spheres.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

you have to leave SOMETHING in reserve

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael, I'm bad with algebra. What the hell are you talking about?

― N8, Friday, 29 August 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030829/i/1062117972.3489931381.jpg

T/S: Britney's Tongue vs Madonna's Abosulute Domination of Xtina

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck, my spelling is bad today.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

M = Madonna
B = Britney
C = Christina

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

mb, mc for the build up and bc for the climax.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:12 (twenty-two years ago)

How did I totally miss the Madonna/Christina kiss? Did the cameras cut away right then or something? (Camera work last night was really shitty all around, except I suppose for all the dramatic rushing and swooping around during Good Charlotte's performance, which almost made it look like there was something more going on than just another dumbass band.)

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah I thought why was only the mb talked abt here? was xtina an onlooker?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

They decided to pan to Justin's reaction (hoping he might cry them a river eh?) while X and Madge smooched.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

So what was his reaction? Yawn?

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

He sort of grinned uncomfortably.

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont think he looked that uncomfortable, after all hes still doing really well at AC Milan, i think Rebrovs reaction would have been more telling

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 29 August 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there three women less sexually alluring in the world than Madonna, Britney and C. Aguilera?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:34 (twenty-two years ago)

yr moms

― autovac (autovac), Friday, 29 August 2003 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

video link: http://www.donpixel.com/video/?v=030829102409

― gspm, Friday, 29 August 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Madonna saying "yo" repeatedly at the end of the clip = white people from the midwest are back to re-destroy the culture they forgot to finish appropriating when they pulled over to buy a postcard at the American Museum of Spam

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I get it now.

― J (Jay), Friday, 29 August 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the tatu kiss was much hotter. if i wanna see two chicks lezzing it up (regardless of whether theyre pop stars or not) they gotta convince my imagination that they're gonna be gettin' biz-ee at the end of the night.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:07 (twenty-two years ago)

check out the shit-eating grin on Brit!

http://www.fmqb.com/site/MusicNews/ArtistPics03/VMA_kiss0829.jpg

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

She's like all, "I wish that were me!"

― Leee (Leee), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic: although not classic for the already damning thread title. Jeanne OTM.

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 29 August 2003 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that xtina is getting completely ignored in the coverage of this (even tho she kissed madonna immediately afterward) makes me like her even MORE than i already do.

― will g. (will g.), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

(ilm's relationship with female musicians in so far down the crapper it's lapping the shoreline outside the waste treatment center shocker.)

on the "You are Free" thread i didnt agree with this, but maybe now i do. these threads do really generate some bizarre reactions (and i do include myself in this, i am certainly somewhat guilty myself), hmm.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"musicians"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 29 August 2003 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

jeanne makes a damn good point, but i'm TOTALLY not gonna be happy until butch women are allowed to kiss each other on tv.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 30 August 2003 00:40 (twenty-two years ago)

john that's waaaaaaay beneath you.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 30 August 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

jeanne makes a damn good point, but i'm TOTALLY not gonna be happy until butch women are allowed to kiss each other on tv.

Maybe when we actually start seeing sexualized butch women on TV?

― Christine 'Green Leafy Dragon' Indigo (cindigo), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Gina Gershon to thread.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

ummmmm

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Bill Maher says: Lesbian kisses now mean one of three things: 1) No one's paying attention to you at the bar, 2) No one's watching your sitcom, or 3) No one's buying your shitty album.

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

4) Kevin Smith is directing the movie.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 30 August 2003 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Xtina is totally my fave of the three. Did anyone else catch her on 106th and Park? Girl's so *sweet*.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Bill Maher is a well-documented misogynist fucko who deserves everything that's coming to him.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I've loved Xtina more for ages, she seems to try so much harder

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:19 (twenty-two years ago)

just risin' to the occasion j

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 30 August 2003 04:21 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't know whether conventionally attractive famous women kissing each other on tv makes lesbianism more visible or more INvisible. i suspect it contributes to the idea that only some kinds of lesbianism are valid, like lipstick lesbianism. i'm not saying that people like madonna and britney should take this into account, i'm saying that i'm not going to throw praise on an action, the effects of which are so contentious. the tv show bad girls is way more subversive, sexy and exciting, and i'm well aware that that show has its fair share of middle-aged men watching it for reasons i find questionable - my dad and my workmates being prime examples.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Sunday, 31 August 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone seriously believe that Madonna or Britney would sell anything like the numbers of records they have (note the past tense), if they had genuinely been lesbians? How many gay superstars are there exactly?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

There's three more today.

I did love the first reaction shot from Justin, before the kissing: facing straight ahead, eyes flicking over to the camera, "you're not getting shit out of me, MTV".

Missy's outfit at the end was bizarre: she looked like she should've been in blackface or something.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 1 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone seriously believe that Madonna or Britney would sell anything like the numbers of records they have (note the past tense), if they had genuinely been lesbians?

You all need to tune into the VH1 special "Totally Gay." To make a long story short, I'll just give an example. Daniel Bettingfield's (sp?) record company wanted to market his music to the gay audience so they HIRED gay consultants who specialize in this sort of thing (note to self: switch careers). One of Daniel's songs was included on some gay comp cd that was distributed by some gay magazine... and wouldn't you know, that song went to #3 on the Billboard charts shortly thereafter.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

... which proves what exactly?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:03 (twenty-two years ago)

that gay people also like music

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:23 (twenty-two years ago)

that daniel beddingfield is not gay but he had gay stylists and in the end this may or may not have sold him more records, some of which were bought by gay people, and some by people who knew some gay people but werent gay themselves, and some people who weren't sure of what they were, not to mention some other people.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out."
IMHO, she also put out catchier music after she came out of the closet. of course, im not denying that the media frenzy surrounding her lesbianism didn't get her a shitload more publicity, but that coinciding with more radio-friendly music didn't hurt either.

― Felcher (Felcher), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

... which proves what exactly?

That appealing to the gay community might actually help one's career.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Me: Melissa Etheridge claims she sold more records after coming out."

Felcher: IMHO, she also put out catchier music after she came out of the closet.

Definately, but coming out wasn't the kiss of death, where no matter how good the music was a large number of people wouldn't buy it (who otherwise would). There were no John Lennon-type record burnings, etc.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 2 September 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it might but theres counterexamples too jeanne. george michael has practically dropped off the face of the earth since he was outed.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Wasn't George Michael already on his way out? And getting outed via being busted soliciting sex in a public restroom is an especially sales-unfriendly way to go.

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

stuff like "fast love" pre the outing was pretty popular here. does anyone really give a fuck how gm was outed? i heard more "wooohooo! hes out!" than "ew that dirty fucker" at the time, but then i had my foot firmly entrenched in the gay community back then.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Kinky!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

What was weird to me was how dissonant it felt. In the MTV world timing becomes finer and finer and finer. They picked the wrong period. Where periods are measured in seconds.

And besides all that, the consequences of competitive sexual liberalism becoming entangled with competitive economic liberalism are unhappiness for the underclass majority in both cases, - I read that anyway.

― m.s (m .s), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

S/D celebrity homoerotic kisses you would like to see

britney and xtina - but only in their blink-and-you'll-miss-it curvy phases. i have my fingers crossed for a sam, pippin and merry ORGY in "return of the king".

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 03:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Call me when they dump a boob out.

― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Wednesday, 3 September 2003 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

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