Dizzee Rascal

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Dizzee Rascal has beat off Coldplay and Radiohead to win the Mercury music prize in the UK. Thank the lord, the album is amazing!

― Matt In Middle England (silver_rocket89), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't have much to add -- don't know anything, really, about the Mercury Prize, and I just bought "Boy In Da Corner" last week, so it's brand spanking new to me. But I love it.

― mte, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

this is some sort of queer justice, but naturally it will backfire for poor dizzee.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

what is this appaling racket nigel? its putting me orf the chardonnay.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:11 (twenty-two years ago)

especially now that he's left roll deep, i can't imagine this will endear him to the underground anymore than, say, ltj bukem even they are worlds apart in terms of outlook, sonics, and positioning.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Am now looking forward even more keenly than usual to next Reynolds blog entry.

― Venga, Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Alea jacta est.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

fremme neppa vennette.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:31 (twenty-two years ago)

The album is shit. boring amatuerish crap...

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

zzzzzzzzzz

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

now he's won the award he'll be able to hire some real musicians!

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

dizzee rascal and david sylvian - "you 40 year old music crits were right all along"

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Dizzee Rascal featuring Pie FX - Are You Ready To Be Heartbroken? (What Is This Batty Of Which You Speak Mix)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

basement jaxx feat diz... oh wait

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:33 (twenty-two years ago)

oh shut it the lot of you - why does this have to be a bad thing for dizee, why is this to be worried about. if you're being serious, you really need to sort your position out, jess - are you a rank populist or an indie boy? do you want great music to be popular and critically acclaimed or do you want it to remain obscure, for "real" music fans? as an argument against this, a girl i know bought dizzee's album on the strength of it being nominated for the mercury a couple of weeks ago (she never listens to my tips abt music) and phoned me to say, "wow, you were right, this is amazing". this is a good thing and what music should be about. the bukem comparison is just plain off the planet as far as i am concened, they're not even vaguely alike in ANY way and i think you may well have finally gone completely off your rocker if you can even attempt to justify this. anyway, i'm glad he won - the best album of the year took the prize, as it should be and into the bargain i won £150, so i'm happy...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:37 (twenty-two years ago)

dave how is anything i posted to this thread indicating that i feel that dizzee shouldn't reach the broadest audience possible?

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:39 (twenty-two years ago)

the fact that i dont think it possible for him to reach as broad an audience as, say, JT or fitty doesn't mean that i wouldn't wish for it in a better world.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:40 (twenty-two years ago)

especially now that he's left roll deep, i can't imagine this will endear him to the underground anymore than, say, ltj bukem even though they are worlds apart in terms of outlook, sonics, and positioning.
-- gabbo giftington

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

obviously that should be "endear him to the underground anymore than, say, ltj bukem to people going to awol in 96" or whatever

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

in other words, massive reading comp breakdown there

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

also, so solid to thread

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:43 (twenty-two years ago)

this is some sort of queer justice, but naturally it will backfire for poor dizzee.

well this can be read like that very easily... acclaim backfiring on him, better not to win stuff... no breakdown in comprehension whatever, just a very slight misunderstanding of what you *actually think*. and many of the other responses here are exactly the sort of snarky, pompus guff i would have expected. "oh he's won something so he's gonna go all shit and collaborate with 'real' artists"... what if he does - here's where you can all learn a thing or two from simon r, re his idea of the alternative mainstream... this matters not an arse as he is already a pouular artist - plus didn't he actually say "being a celebrity don't mean shit to me"... guess we'll see if he meant it

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

So Solid didn't give props to the underground and donate money to youth clubs, did they? And I doubt that Dizzee will go straight hiphop on his next album.

― Keith McD (Keith McD), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

dave i think your sarcasm receptors have been forcibly removed in your sleep.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave in fairness I don't think anyone was saying that really.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

dave if you expected ILM to be snarky & pompous (not that gabbo's response was either of those things AT ALL), why are you so pissed?

also, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE IF YOU HAVE 150 POUNDS TO BURN??? GO BUY MORE RECORDS!!

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 08:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm at work!!! and i didn't say jess' responses were snarky and pompous, i said the others were. what the fuck is wrong with dizzee working with basement jaxx, what the fuck is wrong with him hitting the top of the charts week in week out for a while, what the fuck is wrong with him winning stuff and why does this have to be negative? if the darkness/the thrills (who i actually thought might get it, not that i like them or anything) won we'd all be wallowing in how right we are and how wrong the judges were - but as it stands, people are still grumbling whan there's nothing to complain about - this is a VICTORY, be HAPPY!!!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Eh? Who's grumbling? I think it's great that Dizzee has won (even though I pretend that the Merc Prize is pointless and irrelevant it isn't and I generally DO care about who wins).

Actually, I have a vague recollection of going "YES!" in the pub last night when Stevem announced that Dizzee had won.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

plus didn't he actually say "being a celebrity don't mean shit to me"... guess we'll see if he meant it

I seriously can't imagine Dizzee hanging out at the Met Bar with former Big Brother contestants and glamour models.

I'm pleased he won. I'm less pleased that I told myself to put a fiver on him winning, the day the nominations came out, and then promptly failed to do so. I hope this gives him Ms Dynamitee-hee-style fame, but I fear BIDC is, as mentioned elsethread, too outre for yr average casual 5 CDs a year buyer. "That's not music, it's just noise, why doesn't he sound like those nice Black Eyed Peas" etc.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder whether we are underestimating the 5 CD-a-year buyer. I have a feeling a sizeable proportion of them will love it.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

but they are idiots! for starters they probably only own 20 cds or so

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:06 (twenty-two years ago)

joking aside, I doubt they'll love it, too fucked and angry.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

it's also funny and whimsical

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:09 (twenty-two years ago)

On the rare occasions that the Mercury have actually gone for a non-famous already act (when I say "famous", I mean with at least some record of crossing over to the mainstream), there's either two options. The Badly Drawn Boy switch to the mainstream, or the Talvin Singh not even getting a chance to go mainstream.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah I agree, I do want people to like it and though I am positive sales will go up after this award, there will still be plenty of haters. Anything that sounds as new and radical as Dizzee is going to attract criticism from people whose kneejerk reaction to something new is to complain about how it's different from the old in some roundabout way.

Like what happened with the New Radicals, for example.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah it is Dave but it's musically quite unrelenting and much more minimal than is the current fashion - I think even if you listen to quite a bit of hip-hop this will sound fairly fucked-up. I find it a hard album to get all the way through myself to be honest, though pretty much every track sounds great in isolation.

I would imagine we'll be seeing a lot of 'emperor's new clothes' stories from would-be daring journos in the papers over the next few days. :(

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:14 (twenty-two years ago)

We must carefully consider the Talvin Singh's album was total and utter shite equation before proceeding though.

I was sure Dizzee would win, even if they didn't totally get it, there was no chance Boy In Da Corner would fail to get them.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

by which I mean it just sounds too radical not to be given the award aswell.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah to, i think the humpur is pretty well buried, too, if i'm being perfectly honest. i should imagine we will see many of those stories, too. i bet one will be in jockey slut, by chris blue or jim butler

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

urgh - i CANNOT TYPE...

last post, translated:

yeah tom, i think the humour is pretty well buried, too, if i'm being perfectly honest. i should imagine we will see many of those stories, too. i bet one will be in jockey slut, by chris blue or jim butler.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

How can dance be dead if they praise Dizzee!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

It comes into what I was vaguely hinting at in my Stylus article, before I started holding the entire black populace of the world down: garage music has never really take as strong a hold on the charts as it would seem. Ignoring the 2-step pop explosion of a few years back (and we're still getting the final dribs and drabs of that now), and So Solid's exploits into the top ten (a perfect example of how the broadsheets shitting themselves at the sight of a bunch of black guys together can be so much more effective than any street team (the only good thing Q magazine ever did was the headline "Up Middle England")), garage has still always remained on the outskirts really. With all the best will in the world, I can't see how DR will become a bona fide top 20 artist.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

How can dance be dead if they praise Dizzee!

How soon till people start scrawling "Dance's not dead" in the toilet cubicles at gig venues?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: (So Solid vs Dizzee) vs (Oasis vs Blur)

― dave q, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

vs (D-Side vs Triple 8)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I am intrigued by this "garage music has never taken that strong a hold on the charts", but I have a feeling it is utter bollocks... two or three years ago I didn't even LIKE garage and thought it was everywhere in one form or another.

Of course Dizzee isn't going to be a regular Top 20 SINGLES artist (although I reckon Jus A Rascal has the potential hit the top 10), but the album could well do very well indeed, especially now.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Garage has always seemed more popular than it actually is, there's no way you can argue against that point.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't understand how you can overlook the 2-Step pop explosion in all this. It's like you're saying "if you overlook all the really big hits, it's not really that popular."

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I always saw 2-step as different to garage. Now, maybe I'm just clueless, but 2-step seemed to me a lot more pop orientated, kinda like the R&B to garage's hip-hop (crap analogy I know, but the meaning's clear).

However, you speak to the average person on the street, they'll know what garage is ("Oh yeah, So Solid"), but not 2-step.

Of course, maybe I'm just taking grime to represent all garage, but, eh.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i think this idea is hugely simplistic and the most important thing abt garage is that, particularly up until a couple of years ago, it was (and still is to a certain extent) a very broad church mashing all varieties (2step, breakbeat, dub, blah, blah, blah) into one evening/set. plus 2step was pretty damned broad in itself , ranging from sweet female attitude to groove chronicles...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Have we done this yet?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3094290.stm

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:02 (twenty-two years ago)

No, but it's on the other Mercury thread, is the answer.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Dom, "garage" means "vocal house" so obviously fits poppy 2-step better than So Solid Crew!!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:12 (twenty-two years ago)

from the bbc talking point page linked to ablove:

Im flabbergasted that The Darkness didn't win. They've put the fun & pop back into rock. But the best album of the year wasnt even nominated Girls Aloud should've won it. An album thats reinvigorated pop music. The Mercury Music Prize is elitist and doesn't represent what the people thinks, the TRUE music fans/buyers.
Thomas Ewing, England

i do so hope it isn't...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:15 (twenty-two years ago)

This was on the other thread, Dave. It is, Tom admitted it, he always uses Thomas when drunk. He is a fule, eh?

― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:16 (twenty-two years ago)

right, that's it, i'll say it again: ILX MUST BE STOPPED!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 11:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Dave, were you around for DELETE ILX PLEASE! If not, it proves that all Interweb debates are ultimately cyclical.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I am writing to the Director-General to clear my good name.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Thomas isn't THAT much worse than "Tom"

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, you are my hero.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

the 'underground' gave up on dizzee rascal ages ago. i think it's weird watching the news and seeing a dizzee rascal video being played, i think he has the potential to appeal to home counties/provincial england alot more than so solid ever had and also obviously has alot more than just one album to make. it's all good but i think one downside is that it will cause mainstream media and tabloids to concentrate more on raves and the increasing gun/knife violence that is occuring which could be mean the downfall of grime seeing as raves r still the most important part of the scene nxt 2 radio. of course this should also mean that the media will cover people like nasty crew and payg and others without needing justification from a white garage act (m. skinner).

― sean g, Wednesday, 10 September 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm the hero here.

― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

see, i was right all along!

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 17:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i can't wait to see the mainstream reaction to this
i hope he does well as a result
as for garage never being that popular,a while ago i bought a garage comp from about two or three years ago,when i wasn't really listening to pop music at all,after reading tim finney rhapsodising about garage,and was surpised that i recognised nearly every single track
garage (or two step or whatever sub genre it was) was near ubiquitous in ireland a few years ago...

its weird how dizzee has gone from everyone here being all "omg i just heard this i love you track,go to gabba.net and check it out" to "he's signed to xl now" to me being amazing that he had a video to the sort of fame he's now got...
i mean,all those weird harsh gabber sounds and so on...

― robin (robin), Wednesday, 10 September 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

"....there's bare people I gotta thank--everybody at my record label XL, big shout to my old crew Roll Deep, massive massive respeck to all the pirates for the support, especially Rinse runnin' tings for years, erm, shouts to alla the E3 crew, my Hackney peeps, Bow peeps, oh yeah and big BIG shout to all my soljas out there in the blogosphere...."

Did Dizzee honestly big up you wild geekboys or what? I thought I remember a certain Rascal declaring that he never looked at the Net -

Ah, I stay away from that man. It is kind of dangerous: human beings I don't think they should have that much contact. There's too much talk on the Internet, though it is amazing that people can communicate from different parts of the world. But I personally stay away from it because I've seen people lose their identity. I've seen people lose their identity in another world. Their minds are not free around them, its channelled into one circuit and it's all theory. So your minds over there, there, there, talking, talking, talking. You're forgetting what's really going on, just gossiping, dat dat dat… everyone talking, chatting shit, whatever. And you get into that habit and it's not good. I don't want to be part of that hype. I read a bit of it to see what's going on, but most of it's all gossip and shit anyway. But for facts and getting information, it's heavy."

Kids today...

― MchoMiko, Thursday, 11 September 2003 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Have we done this one yet? So the media take is officially "Poor Black Kid Makes Good, Also What Is This Garage Nonsense? Never Mind Nigel It's Not Important"

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 11 September 2003 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

what underground gave up on dizzee?
the only people that badmaouth him are
'proper' garage bods and jealous kids from south london

― luke............, Thursday, 11 September 2003 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

well i've spoke to a large amount of people who you wouldn't consider to be proper garage bods or from south london who started hatin on dizzee rascal for having shit rave centric lyrics, a high pitch voice, being hip hop, lots of things even before his album came out, hatin within the context of grime or whatever the fuck you want to call it not just garage generally.

oh yeah check out the polyphonic ringtones on his website http://www.dizzeerascal.co.uk

― sean g, Thursday, 11 September 2003 09:04 (twenty-two years ago)

very well said luka... well, that's probably just coz he got signed to a big(ish) label... it's hardly representative of the majority opinion

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 11 September 2003 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

dave what underground are you talking about! "very well said" = patronising tendentious swagness

i get the impression u defend things just cos u like them and everything's an attack on yr 'way of life'. does that make sense dave?

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Thursday, 11 September 2003 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

ah yeah pompous was the word i was looking for, funny that

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Thursday, 11 September 2003 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck off chip

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

and why would i patronise luka when i happenb to have quite a bit of respect for him

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i get the impression u defend things just cos u like them

This is my favorite statement of the day.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

mine, too. i agree with you entirely (oh dear, there i go with the pompous thing again - must remember get that in check). evidently, it's the wrong thing to do, though. note to self: must remember to defend more stuff that i don't like in future.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

well as an example you can defend things if you feel its a good idea but the execution wasn't quite there. Its okay to outline positives as well as negatives.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

and 'fuck off chip' is post of the week.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

dave what is your basis for choosing luka's position over sean's?

― minna (minna), Friday, 12 September 2003 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

him being right!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

go on humour me pls dave

― minna (minna), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought sean made a valid point, right or wrong. i also felt dave's implicit dismissal of sean via luka arselick was solely based on luka agreeing with him and had nothing to do with considering either's positions which anyway were highly subjective and moot. if he's honest anyway dave will concede his experience of said underground is closer to the supposed south london haters than anything else. NOT THAT I AM SAYING this means dave shares their position in any way. but still. generally i feel dave's thought is obscured by his mental partisan paranoid ways OBVIOUSLY it is good to like things and defend them (you fuckasses!!) but when as i felt it occluded discussion (as opposed to the usual hissy fit upthread)i got mad

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:04 (twenty-two years ago)

so to conclude:

dave what is your basis for choosing luka's position over sean's?

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

also j "why would i patronise luka when i happen to have quite a bit of respect for him" is in fact this week's hilarious nonsequitur post of the week

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:07 (twenty-two years ago)

well, chip i'm terribly sorry to make you mad all i seek is the approval of folks like yourself and dash it, old chap, you really are quite spectacular at making off-the-cuff judgements of people without knowing a damned think about them aren't you?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

think = thing...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

minna check yr mail

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

dave ur mental. i explained it all nicely and still u try this smug plucky underdog bollocks. once again: i do not hate everything u say on some cosmic principle, convenient as it is for you to think that

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

haha and yeah for the good of ilm send off an email instead let's not DERAIL this thread with nonsense/having to explain yourself

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

chip while i'm sure you consider yourself to be taking me to task, the simple fact is that all this is really rather tedious and in view of the fact that it happens time and time again, i have to say not a little creepy, too. also us sniping at each other has done more to derail this thread than my simple agreement with luka. next time send me an email and we can spare everyone else...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ohhhh-kay

sigh

ilm be real with me, am i insane

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

go on fella, i'm sure you can have the last word - i've got work to do...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

chip don't send dave email!!! I like reading these fights and threads being derailed: this is all part of talking abt music.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"Anything that sounds as new and radical as Dizzee is going to attract criticism from people whose kneejerk reaction to something new is to complain about how it's different from the old in some roundabout way."

"I would imagine we'll be seeing a lot of 'emperor's new clothes' stories from would-be daring journos in the papers over the next few days."

I think this is unfair. A lot of people will feel that this is a bad award for reasons that have nothing to do with conservatism. For all its admirable originality, energy and promise BIDC just doesn't cohere as a very good album. Tom is right, individual tracks are great but listening to more than a few in a row is a bit of a trial. If Dizzy goes on to fulfil the potential hinted at here it will be seen as a prescient award. If he doesn't it'll look in a couple of year's time like yet another eccentric award by the usual desperate-to-be-hip suspects. Some commentators will point that out, and so they should.

― ArfArf, Friday, 12 September 2003 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

why should 'best' (always) have to equal 'most realized/coherent/enjoyable/listenable'? promise, intrigue, threat, difference, newness are also winning qualities i'd like to think. i don't see anyone feeling 'duped', whatever happens w dizzee.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

(maybe they went for 'music' over 'album' this time)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i couldn't agree more (oops...)

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

dont worry julio i was sarkily referring to dave's antics. for the good of ilm. i do love how baseness gets you giggly ;)

― Chip Morningstar (bob), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

who was being base?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

:-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Chip you're not insane but you certainly aren't afraid to have a go. Almost trifean.

But I'm staying out of that since I have no idea one way or another.

ArfArf that's just your opinion really though isn't it? And to be honest I don't think the people saying emperor's new clothes will give Dizzee even as little as you have. Also the fact that he's getting judged on work he's never done yet is so utterly stupid, you'd swear every artist has to become a global franchise and bore you to tears with a 25 year career in order to be good.

But then Arf there's not a whole lot of point in really debating this because our general opinions on music are radically different, as per canon threads etc etc

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:44 (twenty-two years ago)

ie the only people who'll look back and think it was an eccentric award are those who didn't think it was a good album anyway, ie yourself, ie precious soma don't leave us.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

if he's honest anyway dave will concede his experience of said underground is closer to the supposed south london haters than anything else.

and please chip, tell me what this was supposed to mean - considering you have never met me and know very little about what i do in my free time (unless you're following me or something) how can you say this? also i wouldn't dream of making blanket assumptions about you personally or the life you live, so why oh why do you think you can do it to me without me thinking you are a jumped-up, condescending argumentative little twat?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The emperor's new clothes comment was mine Arf - referring to the harshness of the music making DR an easyish target for 'its not music' style line-drawing. Actually so far it seems I was wrong - some blog I was reading yesterday (sorry o unknown source) said quite persuasively that this (the Mercury victory) will be seen as an odd blip and have no real effects on anything bar Dizzee's bank balance.

I don't think the bit-of-a-trialness makes it a bad album per se, though it pushes it down my personal end-of-year list; the market demands that music be released in certain ways and if you have a lot of tracks you generally stuff them all on an album. I'm happy to absorb it a couple at a time personally. I do think it would be a better album if "Vexed" and "I Luv U (Remix)" were on it even though it would then be EVEN LONGER!

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

(i grafted the sharkey remix onto my version)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it gets better with each listen, tracks like Wot U On in particular cease to be a series of separate abrasive noises and become one blinding flow.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:30 (twenty-two years ago)

it's funny i actually find it pretty cohesive and i'm not saying that just to be contrary but there's quite a lot of themes running through it that bind the whole thing together

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think we need to get into an argument over realness stelfox, my main point was that the 'underground' (which is a stupid word seeing as me talking to mates at college or my little brother, and you talking to whoever you talk to are likely to be 2 different undergrounds altogether) has moved pretty quick in the last year or so especially since i luiv u was first pressed and people who have been into this grime thing from the start found it strange that dizzee rascal a banal rave mc (i dont think this) would find fame over better mcs (cos lets face it there are alot more better mcs than dizzee rascal in london). this led to hate not even hate just indifference exacerbated by less and less radio appearances and less and less rave performances until it felt like he just wan;t really part of the scene anymore, lots has changed since i luv u came out. and i dont think this is a bad thing at all, he's a total pioneer, autear (sic) all those things it's just he's not garage nor grime nor sublow anymore, and besides i think it would be detrimental to become bound by the 'scene' especially since he's noway near the best mc in rolldeep. and it's so short sighted to create this us against them atmosphere when there's just as many critics who love grime music as there are old guard garage heads or jealous kids, i think it does people who are totally dedicated to this thing a great disjustice to assume they have no negative opinions on something they love like they're just sheep following shepherd wiley, after all if internal conflict didn't exist how do you expect it to move on?

hope that explains what i meant better

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm with Dave here - I think the album flows perfectly... I used to regularly skip the bit in the middle (from Cut Em Off through to Round We Go), then as the music grew on me I realised quite how key those three are to the rest of the album - lyrically the album sequence just WORKS for me in a way very few others do.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think it's cohesive Dave - there's lots of themes running through Shakespeare's sonnets too but I wouldn't read all 100+ of the bastards in one sitting!

("Online rock critics are already comparing the talented young rapper to William Shakespeare...")

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i think it's in 3 parts, 'sittin here' to 'fix up look sharp' which is probably the most varied, 'hold ya mouf' to 'what u on' which is the gangsta bit and then the last 4 songs which are filler

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 12:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I do think it's cohesive Dave - there's lots of themes running through Shakespeare's sonnets too but I wouldn't read all 100+ of the bastards in one sitting!

very very valid point excrutiatingly well made!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

the last 4 songs which are filler

oh no! "do it" is one of the strongest tracks on there and really touching works in the grand tradition of really emotive closing songs...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree actually.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 12 September 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

i wan only joking, i love jezebel now but i still don't really enjoy do it i think it's that grand tradition that puts me off maybe, and sittin here and brand new day are more successfuly emotive

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

don't say that!!!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

re ronan agreeing...

sean, i guess i'm just partisan coz of living in the area, i love the way dizzee ends the track bigging up the hackney massive and just being dizzee rasacl from bow e3 - really locks it down in terms of where it's from etc

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Obviously my opinion of the album is my own, nor was I suggesting otherwise. Not only that, but I listen to so few pop records these days that I'd freely admit that my opinion of how good it is relative to other pop albums released this year is pretty worthless. I've hardly heard any of 'em.

But that is by the by. I'm not interested in debating whether the album is good because at the end of the day you listen to music and it affects you in a certain way or it doesn't, and it seems to me fatuous to argue that someone else's response is mistaken. What I was objecting to was the suggestion being made that critics who did not like this album could safely be categorised as conservative, hostile to innovation, happier with what they know etc. Because I don't think that description applies to me, and yet I think it's an interesting but only very patchily successful album, and I suspect a number of writers will think similarly and for similar reasons. Grouping all the people who don't think this way as some kind of reactionary clique is neither accurate nor fair.

― ArfArf, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The "don't" in the last sentence shouldn't be there, obviously.

― ArfArf, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

dave, that's cool star, i live in clapton myself. what i was actually refering to was the age difference (i'm right in believeing you're 30 yeah, sorry for being presumptious) i'm about turn 20 so we're bound to mix and socialise and discuss these things with different age group so YOUR underground may well be a very different one from mine.

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not saying anyone who doesn't like it is like that by default, but I do think there are alot of critics like that.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha you weren't actually talking about that were you?

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i love the intro where he sighs 'feds don't understand us, parents don't understand us....nobody understands us' though

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

sean shatters us 30 year olds' illusions abt being down-with-the-kids shocker!

:-)

― Nathan W (Nathan Webb), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i think alot of the excitement surrounding the album on these boards stems from hearing i luv u a year ago and thinking 'gosh what next' so perhaps hearing the album fresh out of that context explains yr indiffernce arf arf?

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

hey you're only as old as the man you're feeling nathan (smily)

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

'dizzee is no way the best MC in roll deep'
seems a pretty eccentric point of view, he was certainly regarded as such by everyone i know who follows that music. in terms of requests and rewinds he's certainly out in front, the only roll deeper i could say who might possibly be better is j2k, and most people don't even know who the fuck he is. dizzee really is the best MC in garage as far as i'm cocerned, well, sharkies my personal favourite, but dizzee probably is the best. there's certainly no one (big) in south north or west that can touch him. i've got a tape with him, doogz and maxwell and everyone whos heard it reckons dizzee destroys those two, great as they are.
if you read the rwdmag or ukworldwide boards you might be tricked into thinking the garage audience hates dizze but it would be misleading. people round here have still got a lot of time for dizzee.

― luka vandross, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

and sean i wasn't arguing w/ you in any way in the first place - blame chip for any unnecessary misunderstanding as he seems unable to read a post by me without resorting to his usual tired old schtick (and, hell, if it makes him feel good who am i to stop him). anyway, back on topic, i don't agree with you on some points but i do on others, and most importantly these are only opinions anyway. you have yours and you're entitled to them and, of course, perfectly entitled to express them, too. and, yeah, i am 30 dammit, but i do know a few of the youth! also i you live in clapton, drop round for a cuppa! and at the risk of starting another stupid slanging match, luka, I AGREE WITH YOU *ducks*

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

well, i was arguing with you sean, but only in the sense of disagreeing not like i was with chip, you know what i mean...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"i think alot of the excitement surrounding the album on these boards stems from hearing i luv u a year ago and thinking 'gosh what next' so perhaps hearing the album fresh out of that context explains yr indiffernce arf arf?"

Trust me there's no indifference to Dizzee on my part... BTW, I think you raised a valuable point abt having a broad empathy with a scene/community vs the intensity of being right in the middle of it.

― Nathan W (Nathan Webb), Friday, 12 September 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

'i dont want beef today...let's be friends'

yeah luka i agree he's a crowd pleaser, at eskimo dance at area dizzee rascal got bare rewinds but so did everyone else! (apart from farmer yardie!). i'd like to hear this doogz clash.

― sean g, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not a clash, a mate of mine gave it to me, it's a set on radio, rinse, from last year, with slimzee as dj. i'm just saying dizzee comes across better than those two, and like i say, i love those two anyway. send me a tape and a stamp and i'll send you a copy, come stratford now if you want. i got ones with him and nasty crew too, and with roll deep. i heard the tapes from that first eskimo dance and dizzee gets easy the biggest response but i don't think dizzee is -just- a crowd pleaser, he's also lyrically better than almost anyone else, broader emotional/thematic range, better at constructing flows, better voice than anyone else easy, funnier, smarter, everything... i mean, it wasn't just luck that meant he's got the album deal and the mercury prize, sure, there's a few others who might deserve the same (nasty crew, wiley, roll deep collectively, heartless, jookie mundo but virtually no one else)
i definitely prefer garage MCs to english hip-hop mcs, not because they're always better but because they make more sense to me, it feels more normal and natural, not like some wierd cultural skin graft.

― luka vandross, Friday, 12 September 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

"i definitely prefer garage MCs to english hip-hop mcs, not because they're always better but because they make more sense to me, it feels more normal and natural, not like some wierd cultural skin graft."

Luka OTM, and I don't think this can be said often enough.

― Nathan W (Nathan Webb), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

the only time uk rappers sound any good is when they sound more like danchall deejays/pirate mcs... cf new flesh and roots manuva's better moments, also when accents are british, see est'elle and wildflower here...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i like chester p. a lot and taipanic and ricochet and fallacy are very good and some others, there are good ones, it's just like what i said before

― luka......................, Friday, 12 September 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah fallacy's a great example of heavy reggae influence in uk hip hop...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think I was indifferent, I was pretty curious - curious enough to make it one of only a handful of pop albums I've made a point of getting and listening to this year. I didn't find it disappointing either, I think it is intermittently brilliant, but I've never wanted to listen to more than a few tracks consecutively, that adds up to only a patchily successful album IMO.

I think there's a certain amount of hypocrisy on display here. People are being accused of having closed minds by folks whose own minds are closed to the possibility that some people may not like this record very much, not because they are blinded by some conservative agenda, but because they've given it a fair listen and find its ambition massively outstrips its achievement. At the end of the day music is noise that either generates a positive response in the listener or not, and it's at that very basic level that it doesn't do as much for me as other things I've heard this year, notably John Zorn's wonderful band with Marc Ribot, or The Bad Plus augmented by a Scottish horn section or Dave Douglas's reforming of his "Infinity" line-up. It can be objected that they are from a different genre, but I'd like to think we are in the business of breaking down genre barriers rather than clinging to them as defence mechanism.

― ArfArf, Friday, 12 September 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

that's a useful list of records included there - there is a slight problem here in as much as the people talking about dizzee are for the most part pretty well immersed in this kind of music (apart from me of course coz, apparently, according to our very esteemed chip morningstar, i have no grounding in it at all) and it's also interesting because you've pretty much proved tom's point re its general accessibility... can see your pointys a lot better now there's some context to it. and, yeah, you're right, it's a fairly partisan crowd here...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 12 September 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

apparently diddy is interested in working with him.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 18:06 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm...

― adaml (adaml), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Dizzee n Kelis would be awesome.

― adaml (adaml), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

That's pretty exciting-sounding.

I counted references to at least half a dozen American rappers/groups on here. Some of them are checked more than once. And I'm probably missing several. I think "be coool" beats "guess who snuck in through the back door" for my favorite.

― whoo, Thursday, 9 October 2003 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

from an interview the belfast telegraph, http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/music/story.jsp?story=574242 :

Aside from an ability to fearlessly tackle songs others might shy away from, Dizzee, real name Dylan Mills, is also a canny reader of current trends and makes all the right noises about the right people.

His favourite band of the moment are Franz Ferdinand. "They're amazing, I love them," he says. "They are worthy successors to Mercury Prize victory. They are an original sounding band - when I heard them live, I was touched. I like what they have to say - they're special.

"Would I work with them? Who knows, maybe our paths might cross."

If a collaboration with Franz Ferdinand doesn't happen, Dizzee has no shortage of other offers on the table. Such is his growing stature, that there is a growing list of major names keen to get the Dizzee treatment. He's already appeared live with hip-hop uber-producers The Neptunes, he has recorded with Basement Jaxx and he has just finished a remix for Beck.

Of the Beck collaboration he says: "It's a song called Hell, Yeah and I'm very excited about that. It happened easily. He asked and naturally I said yes. He's a credible artist, a real artist so I'm happy about that".

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 20:03 (twenty years ago)

beck!!!???

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Dizzee don't be a fucking dick.

― Damn Yankees- High Enough (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 20:09 (twenty years ago)

"They are an original sounding band - when I heard them live, I was touched."

ha. i hope dizzee doesnt go 'live' on the next album and start doing rock outs or working with orchestras or something like that.

― splooge (thesplooge), Thursday, 28 October 2004 08:05 (twenty years ago)

This thread is depressing

― Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 28 October 2004 09:21 (twenty years ago)

shrewd tactics from Millsy there

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 28 October 2004 09:26 (twenty years ago)

has anyone seen the happy talk video? my sister says it's great...

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 28 October 2004 10:50 (twenty years ago)

video is BIG and good for the kids who need soemthing postitive that isnt corny and this video is it. im glad dizzee did it. the kids need something like this. i wanna see a jungle remix of dream though.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 10:53 (twenty years ago)

it is corny tho, but that's the point i guess. it's better than 'hard knock life' tho.

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 28 October 2004 10:57 (twenty years ago)

i still need to hear the "is this real' b-side...

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 October 2004 10:57 (twenty years ago)

is this real and trapped are amazing. better than a lot of the tracks that were on showtime in my opinion.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 10:59 (twenty years ago)

do you have them on the popular em pee three format, suitable for sharing? i've been looking for ages.

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:22 (twenty years ago)

i dont have em here but i could maybe do it for you later if you want. have you got soulseek?

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:23 (twenty years ago)

i do! i'm cowfish on slsk. otherwise send to getmitchquick@gETRIDOFTHISmail.com

thanks in advance!

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:28 (twenty years ago)

quick q, how do you get a gmail account?

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:40 (twenty years ago)

'is this real' was mentioned as forthcoming on bidc in the 2003 hyperdub interview, which could poss be why it might sound superior to some. i havent heard it either. but lyrically trapped sounds like it's showtime era so i dunno.

― candour floss (mwah), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:45 (twenty years ago)

titchyschneider - I have spare gmail invites, I'll invite you and then you can send me those dizzee b-sides. is that hotmail address workable etc?

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:47 (twenty years ago)

my hotmail address works, yeah. cool, thanks lex. thats appreciated.

is this real sounds weird, it doesnt have the plushness of showtime and it doesnt have the immediacy of BIDC. i didnt know it was from then. wow. is that inteview online candourfloss?

trapped's beat sounds so stupidly HARD and energtic i wouldnt be surprised if that was a BIDC outtake either. give u more with d double e, i think thats def new.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:52 (twenty years ago)

Invite sent!

(incidentally - if you have the Stand Up Tall b-side that'd be totally appreciated too)

(Showtime plush? you think?)

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 11:57 (twenty years ago)

i dunno if plush is the right word though. its polished, slicker, definitely, i know that much. the sonics dont have as much harsh, cutting, lower-budget 'edge' to them as BIDC. BIDC sounds more immediate, jabbing, punching and piercing you in the ears, this is much more 'level' as i think someone else said in some other showtime post on this board.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:04 (twenty years ago)

oh, slicker, definitely. I've said my bit on Showtime in t'other thread. Paradoxically though - it's slicker and less harsh, but it also sounds lower-budget and less commercial because (the unrepresentative singles apart) there's so little immediacy to it.

actually, because it's so sparse (so little actual instrumentation!) it's really all about the vocals. not just the lyrics, but dizzee's vocal inflections, all the nuances.

it's the grime Medúlla!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:06 (twenty years ago)

I heard about the Beck thing a while back, but the "credible artist" quotes cracked me up. I don't have disdain for artist ego, but Dizzee's patronage stance is beginning to grate a little. He was on MTV a few months back, serious face on, staring right into the camera: "Kids, all the artists in the music industry. They're not as happy as you t'ink they are. This is a special public service announcement from Dizzee Rascal". OK, that last sentence is made up, but he's falling right in line with Alex Cockpranos' "'considered' pronouncements on the state of the music industry".

(Alex, I'd love for you to send those Dizzee b-sides on to me as you receive them, please?)

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:07 (twenty years ago)

Will do Barima, what's your gmail address?

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:13 (twenty years ago)

you know what the problem, with diz is? hes believing his own hype. even on stand up tall, he talks about critical acclaim. its ridiculous. hes bought into his own image and fame. thats why hes so obsessed with himself on showtime. hes gone all glitz and glamour even though the beats arent happy or shiny. like, do i give a shit about all his movie premier invites and planes and all that shite? NO! all this 'im an artist' stuff was cool a year back cos it seemed fresh, and ambitious, now it just seems like hes being a patronising fool, whos got this cliched idea of what it is to be 'an artist'. i.e self absorbed, inward looking, self pitying, from some glass house in the sky. i gives not a fuck, personally. get down to earth, please dizzee. actually, i dont think i wd mind the celeb-rhymes if he didnt do it on such slow beats, cos when he does that it makes it seem more self centered or something (not sure why exactly). if he did whinging over energetic beats it might have been a cool contrast!

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:14 (twenty years ago)

the Shystie album pissess all over Showtime, incidentally. So much better.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:15 (twenty years ago)

Alex, I thought you had it from the UK top 40 crossover? You even wrote me in your 'moving to London' groupmail. Anyhow, see below (the '4'='a').

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago)

ARE YOU KIDDING LEX?!?!?! shystie's album is so polished and sheened, its stupid. i just listened to that last night and couldnt believe how sterile that thing sounded. they shouldnt have made her do all those crappy 'urban' songs and let her stick with the grime.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago)

http://www.hyperdub.com/softwar/dizzee.cfm

i say hyperdub, i meant vice obv

― candour floss (mwah), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago)

I fully admit I've had no opportunity to hear Showtime in full, but just reading and listening to the dude in recent times is causing me to lose my interest and goodwill. JC Chasez is 50 times what he and Kapradick aspire to be as pop culture commentators (1000 times Kaprat at any rate).

I still rate Diz over Shystie right now.

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:22 (twenty years ago)

I thought I had your hotmail... but I get confused with emails easily.

everyone says that shystie is too polished and sheened but I LOVE that, and as an exercise in trying to be commercial it's much more successful than Showtime. and I love Shystie's voice, it's so.... shouty. the first four tracks, and Can't Play, are just unbeatable.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 12:26 (twenty years ago)

but she shouldnt be going THAT commercial. she is such a good MC she should be making RAW music.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:39 (twenty years ago)

The Terror Danjah remix of 'One Wish' is fantastic - I wish the Shystie album sounded that way...

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago)

yep.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:24 (twenty years ago)

i've never heard that. feel free to gmail it to me, anyone!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:29 (twenty years ago)

Showtime not accessible?????

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago)

if this gmailing bsides is actually happening, then could someone sort me out, too, please? it's tobygee.

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago)

Ronan - not accessible in the sense that there are very few immediate hooks to draw you in (apart from the obvious which are unrepresentative), not inaccessible in the sense that it sounds harsh.

gmailing b-sides hasn't happened yet...

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:45 (twenty years ago)

give me some time, when i get home, the gmailing will be in effect.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Alex, it's on the 'Run The Road' compilation - have you heard that yet?

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:14 (twenty years ago)

no! these days it's best to assume that I haven't heard any given thing.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:16 (twenty years ago)

what dyou think of that run the road compilation jason j?

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:26 (twenty years ago)

It's brilliant. I don't think there's a dud track on there, although I'd like to have seen that so-so Tinchy track replaced with another Ruff Sqwad track. People on another thread were complaining it's quite slow, BPM-wise, but I don't think that's really an issue. There's some great female MCs on there as well, Alex, which I think will be up your street. (You should also track down Terra Danjah and Shola Ama's 'So Contagious', which isn't on there, but it's v v good anyway).

One thing I've been listening to loads over the last couple of days is Dizzee's Crazy Titch diss. Can't even remember where I got it from but it's better than anything on the album: "Fuckin' midget/Meet me in Los Angeles I'll even buy your ticket/Then hit you for six like cricket". SO good.

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:47 (twenty years ago)

there's a picture of Crazy Titch in the Black British Style exhibition at the V&A at the moment! (also an - ahem - 'early' picture of Mutya Sugababe.)

I've had that Terra Danjah/Shola Ama work repped to me before and I managed to download a horrid quality, incomplete mp3.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:52 (twenty years ago)

(the diss is over the "lean back" beat, btw, and rollie p had it up on his blog, don't know if it's still there)

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 28 October 2004 15:55 (twenty years ago)

which blog? link?

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 28 October 2004 16:16 (twenty years ago)

I've had that Terra Danjah/Shola Ama work repped to me before and I managed to download a horrid quality, incomplete mp3.

"With U" and "So Contagious" are two of my tunes of the year. I have "decent" MP3s of both of them!

― adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 28 October 2004 16:50 (twenty years ago)

"One thing I've been listening to loads over the last couple of days is Dizzee's Crazy Titch diss. Can't even remember where I got it from but it's better than anything on the album: "Fuckin' midget/Meet me in Los Angeles I'll even buy your ticket/Then hit you for six like cricket". SO good."

no disrespect to your taste, but how can anyone think that diss from dizzee was good at all? his lyrics barely flow, they just sound like a couple of bursts of anger over a beat. and what sort of diss rhymes are those? oh wow, you have money to go to LA and titch doesnt? big fucking deal. that is the easiest way to 'dis' someone, to talk about your wallet and how youre better than them cos you got more money. it wasnt even done in an imaginative way.

that is seriously one of the all time worst dis records/freestyles i think ive ever heard. titch totally SLAUGHTERED dizzee over the lean back beat. dizzee sounded lazy, dull, unmotivated, the flow was shit, lyrics were shit, a complete let down really.

wiley also made dizzee look a complete fool on his answer back to hype talk, better flow, better rhymes, better story, plus wiley sounds so intense, like hes bursting with frustration and anger at what dizzee is saying.

i see why dizzee is putting old tracks on bsides, its probably cos hes got nothing to rap about anymore. in that hyperdub interview, he says he has to be living to have something to say, and obviously, he hasnt been doing that for a while. hes turned into exactly what he said he wouldnt do, an INDUSTRY boy.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:13 (twenty years ago)

seriously, no dis to anyone in particular, but sometimes i think people on this site love up anything dizzee does!

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:15 (twenty years ago)

You don't think it's funny? That "Hit you for six like cricket" line? Agreed, maybe Dizzee's milking the 'I've got more money than you' angle more than he should, but I think he does it with plenty humour. And you don't think he's got flow? Whatever, your call. I think you're wrong though.

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago)

(Note to the Dizzee defenders: IT'S OKAY TO BE A FANBOY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY YOUR LIKE OF ALL THINGS DIZZEE TO ANYONE)

― The Ghost of Dan Perry, Professional Cure Fanboy (Dan Perry), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:40 (twenty years ago)

no, on that track youre talking about, i think he sounds pretty bad. it doesnt even sound like he wrote it, and far as i can tell, dizzee is pretty damn bad at freestyling, especially over hip hop beats. actually, hes bad over straight hip hop beats in general. i have that first mixtape he did with semtex and some of the freestyling on there just sounds, i dunno, 'wrong'. stick to the grime dizz!

maybe he had a few okay one liners, but overall, i cant say it was very good. either way, titch MURKED him ridiculously. of course dizzee will just say something like 'im bigger than him, who cares' but thats taking the easy route. he thinks hes better than the grime scene now.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:40 (twenty years ago)

"(Note to the Dizzee defenders: IT'S OKAY TO BE A FANBOY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY YOUR LIKE OF ALL THINGS DIZZEE TO ANYONE)"

dizzee can do no wrong! he is the greatest! *gush gush gush*

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago)

then again, the day more than 2 or 3 people say anything slightly bad about grime in general is the day ILX stops in time. its like all the blogs about it - they see no wrong! theyre so gushy, i imagine their keyboards have slippery surface warnings over them.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I just like the track Dan! If you want me to list the Dizzee tracks I don't like, I will.

BTW, I just listened back to the Wiley response to Hype Talk - sure, good story, and very 'intense', but you don't think he sounds a mess on that? I dunno, maybe we're both looking for different things here.

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 17:59 (twenty years ago)

I just like the track Dan! If you want me to list the Dizzee tracks I don't like, I will.

Did you miss the part of my .sig that said Professional Cure Fanboy? I'm not criticizing anyone for liking Dizzee tracks!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 28 October 2004 18:04 (twenty years ago)

Aha, apols! Just defending this rabid attack on my character/hair-splitting disagreement on a messageboard (delete as appropriate)

― Jason J, Thursday, 28 October 2004 18:08 (twenty years ago)

ok i sent the people that wanted the b-sides stuff through my new gmail account (thanks alex), so hopefully you should all have got it by now.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Thursday, 28 October 2004 18:32 (twenty years ago)

"Hit you for six like cricket"

5ive's role as grime pioneers is finally proven.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 28 October 2004 18:37 (twenty years ago)

I like Crazy Titch heaps so I could imagine him beating out Dizzee on a freestyle but titchy schneider's main beef with dizzee at the moment seems to boil down to slow beats and sleb rhymes - and i just think both are flawed premises on which to attack dizzee b/c a) all grime MCs rap over slow beats, and b) all grime MCs make sleb rhyhmes, the difference being that they're rapping about sleb MCs within the tiny context of the grime scene.

I don't have a problem with that - it works fine, especially once you start to get a sense of who and what they're talking about - but it just seems strange to attack Dizzee for eg rapping about money which *all* the grime MCs do this.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 28 October 2004 23:26 (twenty years ago)

(titchy, sorry to bug, but i didn't get the b-sides...)

― m. (mitchlnw), Friday, 29 October 2004 07:55 (twenty years ago)

(I haven't got the b-sides yet either...)

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 29 October 2004 09:02 (twenty years ago)

really? thats weird.sorry guys. i swear, i sent them to you all last night. dont think i can resend til tonight now, im at work all day.

xpost- as far as titch, regardless of his attacks, as far as actual music, his diss track was just plain better than dizzees. its like canibus' 2nd round KO vs. that embarassing answerback record that LL came out with.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 29 October 2004 09:52 (twenty years ago)

(me neither, fwiw.)

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 29 October 2004 10:52 (twenty years ago)

Singles just came out here. "Trapped" is great, awesome galloping beat, comparable to the faster more insane Showtime tracks. Production-wise it should be on the album I think; the lyrics though are very focused (albeit about how dizzee's moved on while everyone's still stuck on a lower level, so fitting thematically) in such a manner that I can sorta imagine it disrupting the flow of the album a bit.

"Is This Real?" - sounds like a BIDC track, nice emotive synth pattern but everything about this track sounds like a practice run for "Brand New Day". Which means it's still really ace but again I can see why it was left of the debut.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:08 (twenty years ago)

is this real, to me, sounds like dizzee doing a proper dirty south song (albeit with subtler synths). everything from the heavy bass tones to the claps and the drum patterns scream out DIRTY DIRTY!

trapped is the hardest, toughest thing hes done this year, i think. it would sound really rough compared to most of showtime.

― splooge (thesplooge), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:36 (twenty years ago)

is this real, to me, sounds like dizzee doing a proper dirty south song (albeit with subtler synths). everything from the heavy bass tones to the claps and the drum patterns screams out DIRTY DIRTY!

trapped is the hardest, toughest thing hes done this year, i think. it would sound really rough compared to most of showtime.

― splooge (thesplooge), Friday, 29 October 2004 13:36 (twenty years ago)

(did anyone on the list receive the b-sides? anyone else have them?)

― m. (mitchlnw), Friday, 5 November 2004 11:13 (twenty years ago)

as far as titch, regardless of his attacks, as far as actual music, his diss track was just plain better than dizzees

OTM

It is quite funny to read about this here. I was listening to all the disses the other night with a guy who is friends with Crazy Crazy Titch, along with some other stuff. Told a lot of stories - had the 1Xtra diss and stuff - Titch's is so much better, and funnier.

― 3underscore (___), Friday, 5 November 2004 11:40 (twenty years ago)

(No b-sides yet)

― B.A.R.M.S. (Barima), Friday, 5 November 2004 11:56 (twenty years ago)

i sent them to you lot. dunno why you didnt get them. what are the email adds you want them sent to? i will resend.

― titchyschneider (titchyschneider), Friday, 5 November 2004 12:11 (twenty years ago)

(thanks titchy, sorry if this getting annoying. the address, again: getmitchquick@gREATSCOTTTHISBITINCAPSNEEDSTOBEREMOVEDmail.com)

― m. (mitchlnw), Friday, 5 November 2004 12:17 (twenty years ago)

I didn't get them. if the address below doesn't get them try lexusjeep@gmail dot com.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 5 November 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago)

none here - tobygee at gmail dot com.

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 5 November 2004 15:00 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

So then, the Dizzee Rascal Fabric mix?

― Worst song, played on ugliest guitar (fandango), Sunday, 13 November 2005 03:57 (nineteen years ago)

never eard of it + can't find anything about it. link / t-list?

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Sunday, 13 November 2005 09:20 (nineteen years ago)

i think that was supposed to be a joke :) when annie spins mix album, anyone can. how about david beckham being the next one?

― karl76 (karl76), Sunday, 13 November 2005 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

anyone got audio of dizzee at fabric on friday night?

― ahhh, Sunday, 13 November 2005 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

Ah.. apologies. Wasn't a joke but I definitely made a mistake somewhere thinking there was a mix coming out.

― Worst song, played on ugliest guitar (fandango), Sunday, 13 November 2005 22:22 (nineteen years ago)

You should have played it off like it was a joke. Like when you trip in front of a hot girl and play it off like yr showing her your fancy footwork. Or if things go really badly, your quality slide-tackle.

― deej.. (deej..), Sunday, 13 November 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

three years pass...

And there isn't a youtube for it but Minimus is just as great. Anyone know any details about the new album?

― a hoy hoy, Thursday, 2 April 2009 17:47 (sixteen years ago)

eight months pass...

the robotic voice that says "Bonkers!" is like the robotic voice that says "Bonkers!" in the theme song for the old Disney Channel show Bonkers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQzbm0kRY9U

how cool is that etc

― Cunga, Sunday, 6 December 2009 07:32 (fifteen years ago)

Dizzee fucking Rascal. Yes.

― I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Sunday, 6 December 2009 07:36 (fifteen years ago)

disney rascal

― jabba hands, Sunday, 6 December 2009 08:13 (fifteen years ago)

three years pass...

I know this is really naff but I really love it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1gl46hh3sQ

― boxedjoy, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 19:33 (twelve years ago)

In which we anticipate and talk about the as-yet-untitled fifth Dizzee Rascal album

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 20:37 (twelve years ago)

(i have like no thoughts whatsoever about this track soz)

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 20:37 (twelve years ago)

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcQYgrm6Vv0

― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 19 March 2013 18:20 (twelve years ago)

I saw him at Leeds Festival the year RATM and Metallica headlined and found him to be a bit naff.

Boy In Da Corner was a good representation of the UK grime scene at the time, but now he appeals to the chino-wearing "lad banter" TOWIE crowd.

― Slash N Burn, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 18:37 (twelve years ago)

seven months pass...

https://twitter.com/DizzeeRascal

When Americans get played in on radio1 they make allowances for profanity but if it's coming from the nigger down the road it's a problem!
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand
Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 16h

Going against radio 1 aunt smart but I'm tired holding it down and being a good little nigger. You're full of shit Bar the specialists
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand
Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 16h

Fuck Live Lounge! If I gotta keep fighting to get my shit played why bother doing someone else's song so you can sell it on ur shitty comp!
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand
Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 16h

I'm tired of putting up with these 2 faced pricks at Radio 1! If anyone's got a problem let me know. All this nice guy shits dead!
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand
Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 16h

Who ever does Radio 1 playlist suck my dick! I'm tired of you Cocksuckers you better stop playing me. Make up your fucking minds!!!
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:26 (eleven years ago)

That's more like it my boy.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 15:42 (eleven years ago)

Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 17h
“@tinka_leanne: @DizzeeRascal spelling errors when you're bitchin' AINT smart either! ;) #someoneneedsanap” I can spell CUNT.

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:07 (eleven years ago)

yeah i edited that one out, in retrospect maybe the best one

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago)

Dizzee Rascal ‏@DizzeeRascal 16h
“@LouisStone10: @DizzeeRascal make better music then bellend. What ever happened to Boy in da corner!” I battled with that too fuck you!

err yeah w/e dizz

kind of a shame he already went thru with the album cos the trials and tribs of the uk industry game has been bubbling under for a while now with him and is probably the last true personal ~artistic~ avenue available (obv i don't mean like the dogeared successful musician makes song for The Haters type thing)

as it is he's quite mistaken if he thinks anyone gonna play any violins now cos he miscalibrated his cynicism. "Make up your fucking minds!!!"

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:18 (eleven years ago)

what's the single he's radge about btw, 'love this town'? truly awful

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:29 (eleven years ago)

ha yeah loath as i am to side with the Industry Establishment on this one, all this tells us is that *even* Radio 1 can tell that dizz's trend-chasing is misguided pony

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 6 November 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago)

six years pass...

https://www.residentadvisor.net/news/73307

― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 20 August 2020 15:29 (five years ago)

cautiously excited for this

― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 20 August 2020 15:42 (five years ago)

eleven months pass...

Neil Oliver: 'For the sake of freedom – yours and mine together – I will cheerfully risk catching Covid.'

Subscribe to our YouTube https://t.co/GXXuPQejoZ pic.twitter.com/gS9jyrcYKR
— GB News (@GBNEWS) July 31, 2021

Rapper Dizzee Rascal has been charged with assault, following an incident in south London.
The 36-year-old whose real name is Dylan Mills, was charged after police officers visited an address in Streatham on 8 June.
A woman at the property had suffered minor injuries, but did not need hospital treatment, police said.
Mr Mills, from Sevenoaks in Kent, is due to appear at Croydon Magistrates' Court on 3 September.
The rapper, who was awarded an MBE in the Queen's birthday honours in 2020 for his services to music, is due to perform at South Facing Festival, Crystal Palace Park and Lydiard Park on dates in August.

― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Monday, 2 August 2021 22:41 (four years ago)

damn, wrong link. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58063759

― Pfunkboy AKA (Oor Neechy), Monday, 2 August 2021 22:42 (four years ago)

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