Feisty Underdog TicketMaster To Beat Scalpers At Own Game!

I just got confirmation from the Beacon Theater this morning that Ticketmaster processed a refund request I made several months ago by taking back the ticket and NEVER refunding any money for it. Wow, Ticketmaster you piece of shit, you really find sleazy new ways to make money!

Seriously, if you processed any refund requests with them, double check your credit card statements, and if nothing shows up, contact the venue. (I was also told by the venue not to contact Ticketmaster, contact them when requesting or checking on refunds. Venues should have a guest services or customer service number you can use.)

Wow... 18 years ago

Gone will be the days of camping outside a ticket booth in -40 C weather with a group of hard-core fans who are all hoping to get first crack at those tickets to the World Series, the Stanley Cup playoffs or Bruce Springsteen.

LOL

Hey Lil' Wayne at the Apollo! I mean, how can you not want to see Wayne at the Apollo?
https://www.ticketmaster.com/lil-wayne-new-york-new-york-04-16-2023/event/00005E3B08DA9760
Tickets start at $540 and go up to $3800 (with an inclusive $700 fee)

imagine paying $700 for the right to spend $3100 for one ticket

i would not pay that to see a resurrected Prince
okay i probably would but that's about it

That's it, I'm totally taking my business elsewhere.

well i'm certainly not seeing Wayne at the Apollo!

god i'm thankful i mostly go to smaller shows.

Madonna this summer i had to take an Affirm loan out on

Bob Lefsetz keeps insisting the performers can dictate to Ticketmaster re prices and fees . Now in his email Lefsetz has gotten onetime Jeff Beck manager Harvey Goldsmith to agree with him:

I read Jack Antonoff’s comment about ticketing issues, made at The Grammys over the weekend

"it’s not ‘cause of Artists" he says.

How wrong he is.

The Artists, through their representatives, totally control every aspect of Live Touring. From what is on stage, backstage and indeed the ticket price.

Promoters may recommend ticket prices, but the Artist always makes the final decision.

Ticketing Companies will suggest a whole tariff of ways to fleece the fans.
However the Artist always has the final say.
Those Artists that always blame everyone else are the same ones that sanction the problem.

It is totally in the Artist's remit to say whether ticket prices should be "as printed" on the ticket or not.

The Promoter can negotiate the Ticket Commission, but often the artist will demand its share if there are surplus profits.
The exception being if the Promoter has its own separate deal with the Ticketing Company.

At the end of the day only the Artists can stop the madness that besets us.

Some already do, but not nearly enough.

Harvey Goldsmith

I don't know about the added fees, but didn't Springsteen say something like - "I used to find out what our peers were charging, and said 'let's charge a little less'... but for this tour, I said, 'We're in our '70s, let's charge the same as our peers'," etc.

let's relegate lefsetz matters to the lefsetz thred plz

oh no it's the greedy artists that are ruining the music biz!

tho in this case, they def appreciate having ticketmaster around as a shield

I think if some artists told Ticketmaster no variable pricing, limit the fees to x, limit the price to y, that Ticketmaster would say that can’t be done unless you the artist work for free

oh hey, here's West Coast pop punk band The Garden playing two nights at Irving Plaza, popular enough that they can book more than one show but obscure enough that I'm sure tickets via livenation can't be too much aaaaaand GA for a punk show is $83 with seated tickets running up to $330

who the fuck is buying at these prices?

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/6-ways-to-fix-the-broken-concert-ticketing-system/

Pitchfork contributor on how to fix Ticketmaster mess

Well to comment on two of those suggestions...

Artists already can opt out of dynamic pricing. Every decision on how each tour is sold is a collaboration between agent/manager and their contact at TM. If artists care enough about the fans, they will be involved in that process and opt out - and some do. I think most artists selling through TM just remain wilfully ignorant of that process and leave it to their people to sort it out.

Similarly, artists also have the option of blocking resale - its been done by some massive artists already. Many don't because they take a cut of the higher resale prices, or actively get their people involved in doing the higher-priced reselling themselves (Metallica management got caught out on this).

Of course Ticketmaster have always been fine taking the blame for this stuff, they act as a convenient shield between the artist and the ripped off fans... who will never want to think the artist could have some responsibility in flushing out their bank accounts.

Springsteen claimed that if he blocked dynamic pricing that non- Ticketmaster approved ticket scalpers would up the prices and make money that Springsteen said should go to he and his band. I dunno.

Unwinding the Ticketmaster and Live Nation merger is definitely essential. That relationship alone makes it extremely difficult to fight price inflation - there would still be a lot of things that need to be done after a split, but they would be virtually impossible to pull off (at least effectively) with that merger intact.

“Make ticket scalping illegal, level the playing field, and get back to where it’s just normal fans competing for the same Taylor Swift tickets,”

Ticket scalping should be legal-ish but you should have to pay cash to a weird guy in a dirty San Jose Sharks Starter jacket for two tickets a block away from the venue like the good old days.

More ideas not broached in Hogan's piece (I don't think):

(Further) limit the number of tickets people can buy.

Sell tickets directly.

Cap the bullshit fees, or make them flat. Why the fuck should the *fees* be dynamic as well?

Anyway, the problem with that Fork piece and ones like that is that they all begin from the position that Ticketmaster actually provides a real service. But of course TM doesn't do shit, especially in this digital era. They've embedded themselves in the process like parasites.

Even if there were no Ticketmaster, i imagine most venues would still choose to contract with ticketing services, rather than try to set up and manage their own software…?

I mean, part of the problem is that many of these big venues aren't just partnered but are *owned* by Live Nation/Ticketmaster! But yeah, the venues - as individuals or as collectives - would need to have their own ticketing systems, though that would also mean (I assume) keeping more of the money, which might be an incentive.

Springsteen claimed that if he blocked dynamic pricing that non- Ticketmaster approved ticket scalpers would up the prices and make money that Springsteen said should go to he and his band. I dunno.

― curmudgeon, Friday, March 10, 2023 12:33 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

there's no reason to regard springsteen in this matter as anything else but a full of shit rich guy

That's more or less the exact argument the Eagles made back in 1994 or whenever when they smashed through the ticket price ceiling.

The Eagles were the first rock band to shatter the $100 ceiling for tickets. Azoff pointed out at the time that the only people who complained were journo types who got their tickets for free, and it’s true that fans didn’t balk, with Hell Freezes Over selling out every show.

Twenty-two years later, Azoff stands behind that pricing strategy. “Tickets should be priced at what the fans are willing to pay to see the performer,” Azoff explains. “The key element in breaking the $100 ceiling was that it changed the dynamic of resale (by) having the revenue generated by tickets going back to the business — promoters, artists, venues, etc.” Clearly, demand to see the Eagles live after 14 years was sky high, but, “it wasn’t just about making more money,” Azoff says. “It was also about sending the message that Eagles were America’s biggest band, and perhaps one of the biggest in the world — charging like it influenced both fans and media that we were the biggest ever.”

many of these big venues aren't just partnered but are *owned* by Live Nation/Ticketmaster!

So they’re “direct ticketing” already… haha

Statement from the Cure (#onethread):

"We want the tour to be affordable for all fans, and we have a very wide (and we think very fair) range of pricing at every show. Our ticketing partners have agreed to help us stop scalpers from getting in the way; to help minimise resale and keep prices at face value, tickets for this tour will not be transferable. If something comes up that prevents a fan from being able to use a ticket they have purchased, they will be able resell it on a face value ticket exchange."

"Unfortunately, despite our desire to protect our low ticket prices for fans, the states of NY, IL and CO make this very difficult. They actually have laws in place that protect scalpers! For shows in these states we urge fans to buy or sell tickets to one another on face value exchanges like twickets.live and cashortrade.org. Fans should avoid buying tickets that are being resold at inflated prices by scalpers, and the sites that host these scalpers should refrain from reselling tickets for our shows."

Restricting re-sale, but allowing face-value transfers, totally makes sense. More artists should do that!

When I saw the Death tribute in 2021, Tix were $50, but if you needed to sell one, you'd input your buyer's name and email on the ticketers site, which would give them a link to pay, and would void/refund your original transaction, so you broke even. I had to use it and it was a crude system but it was great.

Reselling Tix you can't use now and getting face value is very difficult otherwise, esp if you use a service that takes a cut. And Craigslist is so filled with scams, people just don't want to use it

Yeah, if you're not doing it with someone you semi-trust, like a co-worker ("Ok, the Venmo went through... I'll transfer the tickets now"), you need some kind of digital escrow system.

My best friend and I once got scammed for Lightning tickets during the Eastern Conference Finals. He seemed legit and she had actually chatted with him for a bit, I sent the money via CashApp, nothing. Since you can't mark Goods/Service, they refused to refund. She was in tears.

I decided to use a credit card and pay a majorly marked up price to acquire resale Tix on Ticketmaster. Something like $150 each. It was an expensive day but the look on her face during the game made up for it.

So yeah fuck tickets

We need to go back to the early 2000s, where I would physically meet up with some dude in an In-N-Out, and hand him a wad of cash for Strokes tickets.

Saw this going around re: The Cure (fees for each ticket exceeding the ticket price):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrREw7YWwAAu9Nx.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Guillotine%2C_Mus%C3%A9e_de_la_R%C3%A9volution_fran%C3%A7aise.jpg

^^ rejected alternate cover for Carnage Visors

(not really)

When I got the Ticketmaster email that said I had been *waitlisted* to be a "Verified Fan," my immediate reaction was, fuck that, I'm not going to be their dancing monkey, and didn't even bother trying for tickets.

But hey, I can go on Stubhub right now, and pay $150 a pop (before fees) for nosebleed tickets for a show in June that literally only went on (pre)sale this morning.

Sounds like the Drake presale was another clusterfuck.

And Drake tickets were apparently super expensive even without fees

Not playing this three-card-monte game again. Spending my money on new bands that could use it...

it wasn’t just about making more money,” Azoff says. “It was also about sending the message that Eagles were America’s biggest band

god, what a piece of shit

Robert Smith of the Cure got Ticketmaster to offer a $10 refund on service fees to verified fan Cure ticket buyers who bought those cheapest Cure tickets ; and $5 to other verified fan ticket buyers

https://consequence.net/2023/03/robert-smith-the-cure-ticketmaster-refund/

I seem to recall that sort of outcome being the straw that broke Pearl Jam's back, that after months of fighting they were only able to shave off something like $5.

i'm not even invested in this specific instance with the cure personally, but it's very emblematic of why i stopped making big live shows a priority in life. when i think of the main "general amorphous villains" of my life, along with concepts like `people who steal` and `people who are rude to service workers`, i always think of the entity "TICKETMASTER" itself as a manifested evildoer. yes i can attend shows with no affiliations, but man. it's been over the line for years.

pure speculative pontification from this point forward, feel free to skip

wondering about 2 things:

1- rs wasn't given details about how much "fees" would be, saw results and threatened to cancel or something. that's why he referred to the refund as being done in "good faith." i'm hoping the refund will be a simple debit back to the customer's card/account. knowing those assholes, it may end up coming back to everyone in the form of like an arby's gift card that you need to take a day off from in order to simply acquire the fucking thing.
2- the whole thing's a ruse to get the crowd on the band's side, i.e. buy more tickets. tickmaster know they're heels anyway. wouldn't put it past them.

I think Robert Smith got out ahead of this early enough that no one blamed him or the band. The bigger question is, if Robert Smith of the Cure can sway Ticketmaster, even $10/$5, why can't Taylor Fucking Swift or Bruce Springsteen?

I assume they could if they wanted to

That's my assumption.

Robert still roasting them today over some other ticket screwup. You love to see it.

there's this show a buddy and I wanna go to in about 10 days (its Dan Deacon in Milwaukee). not sure when it was announced, I think it was actually a holdover from some Covid-era dates. anyway face is $20, I went to buy tickets today and holy hell the only options are on resale sites for $110 or $170 (!!!). that may even be before fees. it's nuts.

anyone got some advice on what to do here? do I keep scanning online for a better price? or just show up on the day and hope someone's trying to sell? I wanna see the show but no way am I paying 5-8x face for it. and I really doubt anyone else is willing to either.

One of those sites shows an all-in price. TickPick? Another one, maybe Stubhub, allows you to toggle it to show all-in as well, though the prices end up the same pretty much across all the sites. Sometimes it pays to wait until the day-of, but honestly this shit is so maddening and opaque, as prices don't always drop at all, which makes me think it's just an inside job.

I've had luck just waiting outside the venue and seeing if people want to sell, sometimes there are scalpers or people whose friends couldn't show up. But that's pretty risky.

Looks like a show in a very small club? I assume just one or two ppl are offering up tix (across those different sites), and they're pricing them high for whatever reason... (and yeah, maybe they'll drop at the last minute if no one bites).

I don't know if this is comparable, but there was a sold out Johnny Marr show I wanted to attend at a small venue (I think in 2018), but I didn't go for tickets because I wasn't sure I could make it in time due to prior commitments. Luckily it was on the way home, so I figured, if I can get there before he goes on, I'll see if anyone's selling. If not, l'll keep walking and go home.

I got there at like 8:50pm, and passed a guy with several tickets. He asked if I wanted one, and I asked "did Johnny go on yet?" "Nope! I'll see you one for $20!" Well below face, I took it and I got inside with maybe a few minutes to spare.

*sell you one

I have a similar story with LCD Soundsystem, show was sold out but we figured we'd just show up and see if someone wanted to sell outside the venue. I was about to give up hope but we found someone at the last second, they took the stage right as we got in. This is a much smaller show though so I'm a bit less confident.

decided to post on Reddit to see if anyone had any and within 10 minutes got 6 messages saying they had tickets available. none of the accounts had much history and they all had a bunch of numbers at the end of the usernames...safe to assume these are all scams right?

I'd say don't trust anything that transfers digital tickets without any sort of guarantee, like via credit card or PayPal. I seem to recall reading that a lot of these online scammers get cagey about those kinds of payment methods and steer you toward methods like Venmo, where they can do some sort of reverse charge. I think?

yeah they want me to use CashApp or Zelle, which I don't even have. PayPal they are pointing me towards "family and friends" which I think is the one you can't charge back. also I believe this is a 300 person venue so it seems very unlikely these are legit. think I'll just take my chances outside the venue. or maybe just sneak in somehow. there's like 10 tickets on Stubhub which after fees will be $160-200 apiece and I'll bet anything not a single one of those is gonna sell.

Don't do any CashApp. You will never see that money again if you get scammed.

Venmo or PayPal under goods and services only

well guess what. I called the box office and they had a few tickets left. even though online they said they were sold out. $44 for the 2, as opposed to $350 after fees on Stubhub. I guess the old fashioned method of "just call them and see if they can help" actually works sometimes.

Unfortunately the Junk Fee Prevention Act lacks input from musicians, and it shows. It contains provisions around “holdback transparency” that have nothing to do with fees but would be a giveaway to predatory bulk resellers; not a single musician organization supports it. https://t.co/ZXMHu4Qoiq

— Future of Music Coalition (@future_of_music) June 15, 2023

Ticketmaster's "concession" (announced 5 months ago but reiterated yesterday) to disclose their junk fees up front is an effort to stave off antitrust enforcement, writes @lukewgoldstein in today's BASED.https://t.co/LFIGGgix6U

— David Dayen (@ddayen) June 16, 2023

lol what a toothless resolution.

what a joke

It's total bullshit and not at all transparent. As far as I can tell, only Tickpick and Stubhub on secondary show all-in prices, which at least gives you an idea of what you are in for before you start jumping through hoops, but Ticketmaster's model and operation is so fucked up I can only assume it's on purpose. To what end, I don't know. I tried to buy last minute Cure tickets last week, and the entire time I felt like I was pointlessly battling bots designed to beat me to the prize. Like, why should someone else be able to snag tickets that I literally have in my shopping cart, as I attempt to check out? Because that's what kept happening, in the rare instances when I even made it through the tech morass and was able to even try. And then a few minutes later those same tickets would be live on the site again. Very Lucy with the football.

Pricing is one thing, but the entire process has become such a stressful, joyless headache. Sure, I'm getting older, and I've been lucky enough to see so many shows over the years for free. But the excitement of even favorite acts hitting the road immediately fades knowing what it will take to even get a shot at tickets, let alone how much they will cost. I just count my blessings that I've seen everyone before and try not to think that I'll likely never see some of them again.

Informative deep-dive on how scalpers exploit the "Verified Fan" ticketing system: https://www.404media.co/why-scalpers-can-get-olivia-rodrigo-tickets-and-fans-cannot/

Wow, informative article about how scalpers do it.

Multiple accounts and browsers and more

The problem with this is that normal people have one Ticketmaster account tied to one email address and can therefore enter this lottery one time for one specific show. Serious ticket scalpers have many accounts (hundreds or thousands) tied to many different email addresses, with credit cards all over the country and can enter the lottery as many times as they want

that scalpers have multiple accounts is something those geniuses at Ticketmaster never saw coming!

(most likely they did see it coming and don't give a fuck because it's beneficial to them)

Yeah, they love it.

Someone at work said they got Beyoncé tix by using 3 accounts with 3 different phone nos./credit cards, and registering for presales in 3 different cities ("I had 27 opportunities and 3 of them succeeded").

Does this help? I’m not sure this helps:
https://variety.com/2023/music/news/ticketmaster-block-olivia-rodrigo-scalpers-72-hour-1235732837/

I'm sure nothing will really help, because for decades Ticketmaster has been the constant and Ticketmaster is not operating in good faith. They're in mild CYA mode, but they've admitted in the past their role is mostly just to take the abuse while they rake in money. They're like that Eric Andre meme, of Eric Andre shooting fair ticket prices or whatever and then asking who did such a thing.

https://i.imgflip.com/805ge3.jpg

Never saw that one; I guess this recent meme sensation would also fit:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/037/873/We

ain't gonna work. third-party reseller websites already make accommodations for stuff like this - Stubhub asks you if you have tickets in hand, or if not, when you will. People will frequently sell tickets they don't actually have in hand.

sometimes people sell tickets they haven't even PURCHASED yet on the open market - they'll give an estimated seating location, charge a fee upfront, and then get the ticket later, or refund the money if they can't get it.

yeah, they're called speculative tickets and you might as well pay a stranger on the street for a guarantee that you won't get cancer

that's kinda what Billy McFarlane was doing in his pre-Fyre venture, right?

*McFarland

Never saw that one

I just made it with a generator!

There's something uniquely shitty about the law in Illinois that makes it hard to thwart scalpers. For example, this was from the press release for the most recent Pearl Jam tour:

Tickets on this tour will continue to be non-transferable in all states except Illinois where it is prohibited by law. We apologize in advance to Illinois fans who may be subject to increased ticket prices on the secondary market.

And from Robert Smith's statement in his fight against scalpers:

Unfortunately, despite our desire to protect our low ticket prices for fans, the states of NY, IL and CO make this very difficult – they actually have laws in place that protect scalpers!

Tickets being non-transferable is pretty anti-consumer too tbh.

Fights scalpers but also inhibits people who can't go at the 11th hour

Which I assume is why it's pretty protected places.

Was it the Black Keys back when that tried to link tickets to the person that purchased them only to have it backfire?

Meanwhile:

https://www.wsj.com/arts-culture/music/irs-taylor-swift-eras-tickets-beyonce-lionel-messi-tax-480d346c

If you cashed in this summer by reselling tickets to Taylor Swift’s “Eras Tour” or Lionel Messi’s first games in a bubblegum-pink jersey, brace yourself to pay taxes.

A new law requires ticketing platforms like Ticketmaster and StubHub to give the Internal Revenue Service information on users who sold more than $600 worth of tickets this year.

The new requirements are taking hold amid a banner year for live events in which Swifties, soccer buffs and members of Beyoncé’s BeyHive paid sky-high prices for a chance to see their favorite stars in the flesh. That drove huge markups in the secondary ticket market—and delivered hefty profits to anyone hawking hot tickets.

The average price for Taylor Swift tickets sold in the U.S. on StubHub was $1,095, with the best seats going for thousands of dollars, according to the company, which operates an online market for people to resell and buy tickets. Averages for Beyoncé and Harry Styles clocked in at $380 and $400, respectively. After Lionel Messi joined Major League Soccer, the price of tickets to Inter Miami CF matches shot up to $255 apiece, from $30.

Anyone else trying to get $25 tickets today? Looks like demand crashed the site within seconds.

Missed that this morning but am seeing this news trending

Typical

got Mastodon and Coheed tickets that way

site is mega buggy though, first took a ticket out of my cart, then kept saying they were unavailable despite being listed

I'm not sure how this works, but I guess you could get $25 Missy Elliott tickets if you connected with a Verizon account (like a deal was made with Verizon and subscribers got like a code or instructions). I don't have a Verizon and didn't see any pop up. We did get tix to the Roots (with Digable Planets and the Jungle Brothers) and Mdou Moctar, so at least we got something. (The latter wasn't expensive to begin with, it was originally only $5 more with fees, but I was planning to go anyway.)

I should say "plus fees" not "with fees"

Wasn't sure where to put this, but the Black Keys have cancelled their Fall US tour apparently due to the combination of low sales of expensive tickets in large arenas.

https://consequence.net/2024/05/the-black-keys-cancel-tour-dates/

this is not me being messy, im genuinely curious when they ever had the audience for that kind of a show?

Actually, they did. I was looking at their gig history in Houston on setlist.fm, and they've been in sheds/arenas since 2010!

From what I gather, they did an arena/shed tour with considerably lower ticket prices in 2022, so it's understandable if fans didn't want to drop more coin on them so soon.

Judging by the wording of this statement, I'd say they overestimated their draw:

The band wants to assure everyone that Dan & Patrick are alive and well.

Following the recent run of shows in the UK & Europe, including stops at iconic venues like Brixton Academy and the Zenith in Paris, we have decided to make some changes to the North American leg of the International Players Tour that will enable us to offer a similarly exciting, intimate experience for both fans and the band, and will be announcing a revised set of dates shortly.
 
Everyone who had purchased tickets and/or VIP to the initial tour dates will be fully refunded - and when the new plans are announced, will be the first to be able to buy tickets.
 
Thank you for your understanding and apologies for the surprise change… We’re pretty sure everyone is going to be excited when you see what we have in mind though, and look forward to seeing everyone soon.

lol whoops sry black keys but i thought fer sure this revive would be re: this

^ me too

and this

https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/may/29/revealed-how-touts-drew-up-secret-plans-to-sabotage-labours-ticket-reforms

NOW THIS??
https://www.ticketnews.com/2024/05/ticketmaster-hack-data-of-half-a-billion-users-up-for-ransom/

cautionlol

yikes!

no big deal, just contact those 560 million users and tell them to change their phone number and credit card.

J.Lo cancels tour after rebranding it due to low sales

https://variety.com/2024/music/news/jennifer-lopez-cancels-tour-1236021391/

seems like I'm seeing a lot of that, I guess Nicki Minaj is having trouble, it's almost like ticket prices are excluding most of the audience!

Well, yeah.

And audiences who are going to shows are being choosier about who they see.

And some artists are charging too much too soon after doing cheaper post-pandemic tours.

And promoters are seriously overestimating certain artists' drawing power.

I got caught up in this y'day: https://www.404media.co/ticketmaster-crashes-during-olivia-rodrigo-presale-heres-why/

(once I finally did get into the "Waiting Room," there were 30,859 ppl ahead of me)

I thought this was a really good summation of where things stand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u--se25_px8

Btw, related, at one point tickets to see the National and War on Drugs a couple of nights ago at the United Center were as low as $4 all-in on the secondary market. You know that something is really screwed up when the bottom falls out like that, starting with the fact that the National and Co. were touring arenas at all (let alone how high tickets were originally priced). To what extent are bands like that strong-armed into playing huge places or bilking their fans with ridiculous ticket prices, or how many of those decisions are being driven by market forces beyond their control. Like, is playing to a big but less than capacity crowd in an arena ultimately more practical than playing four sold outs shows at a smaller place (which is what they did the last time they were in town)? How much does it currently cost the National, a band with five members, several auxiliary members, and no doubt a not insubstantial tour crew and support network, to hit the road? I wonder.

There have been a handful of high profile acts claiming it's unfeasible to tour, like Justin Bieber or Santigold. Other acts, like J. Lo or Black Keys, who may or may not have cancelled due to light ticket sales. But just a handful, at least that come to mind. I saw two of three High On Fire shows here a couple of weeks back (they ruled). Is the band, or any band at that relatively modest level, making any money, or is it a labor of love? How about all of the other bands and clubs that play or host shows every night, many of which sell out? Is it an illusion of success, as the Crowbar guy in the video suggests, and in reality all these places (and bands) are barely hanging on by a thread? Even some buddies in the biz have yet to give me a totally clear idea of just what is going on.

so on a whim i decided i'd like to go see bob dylan when he comes through the midwest on the next leg of his tour. i've never seen him before and i thought it would be good to correct that.

some context: maybe this sounds strange, but i rarely bother to see Big national acts because i guess i just get my fill from seeing lots of other (local, national, and int'l) music on a smaller scale, and i don't like going to arenas, and i don't have a ton of money.

so, i was looking at some of these tickets, and the tour wasn't announced all that long ago, and apparently all the tickets have already sold out. however, lots of "resale" tickets are available. so it's like, ticketmaster-sanctioned scalpers i guess?

my questions are:

1. is this now the normal state of things? do all concerts now sell out in a matter of minutes on the morning tickets go for sale, and anybody who decides to see the show after that time frame has to either pay an exorbitant price or get fucked?

2. is $200 now the "normal" low end ticket price to see an artist of bob dylan's stature and popularity? this sounds fucking insane to me, but then again in many ways i am not as tuned into the culture as i could be

yes and yes, sadly

lol i just bought tickets to see Cymande and i have to download an app on my phone to use the tickets? seriously fuck off

Not only are tickets priced high, not only do shows sell out immediately and tickets appear on secondary markets just as fast, but sometimes it's the artist themselves sneakily selling those tickets on secondary at (further) inflated prices.

Depends on the venue, artist, etc. And many shows you can find tickets in the days leading up to the date at below face value.

Dylan’s playing the Outlaw Tour with Willie Nelson, Wilco, and Lucinda Williams this summer. At Jones Beach tickets start at $54.50 with fees.

Saw Dylan there last summer, with Robert Plant and Alison Krauss (and should have also been Willie Nelson, but he was out sick and one of his son’s subbed). Was a great place for the show (and Bob was fantastic that night, making up for a lackluster show I saw a few months before).

i see live music all the time, and 95% of it exists totally outside of this totally predatory and whack system, thank god

maybe this sounds strange

Not at all! I've been to hundreds of shows and exactly one of them (my first, The Cure) was an arena show. That type of concert experience just doesn't appeal to me.

I have no problems with arena shows, per se. The problem is that the arenas are all owned by the same bad-faith players and therefore prone to the same ticket dishonesty.

Yeah, there are always solutions that aren't really solutions so much as coping mechanisms. Unless it's something I really, really don't want to miss, I'll wait until the week of and start watching prices then, and be prepared to walk away if they stay ridiculously high. That's not a solution to the problem, that's a strategy to deal with the problem.

I've started using cashortrade.org, by the way, which has yet to get bogged down in bullshit. When I wanted to see John Zorn at the Village Vanguard in NY, a tiny place, I found a guy on that site selling a single for face value. Right now there are zero Dylan tickets, which reaffirms that it's more a fan site and not just another cog in a corrupt wheel.

lol i just bought tickets to see Cymande and i have to download an app on my phone to use the tickets? seriously fuck off

I had to do that when I saw Garcia Peoples last year. It was annoying but the venue was so small and intimate that I didn't want to pass it up.

My best friend's husband got us NIN tix through AXS, and he'll have to download an app to get into the venue.

let me guess, the app to view/use the tickets is Dice? yeah it's annoying but the ticket buying experience is a million times less anxiety-inducing and annoying and evil there than Ticketmaster, a trade-off

Ha, mine was. I was just annoyed because I'm not sure I've had a chance to use it again since.

oh, I'm sure you will

at least here in Toronto, more and more non-arena/stadium shows are using it

i had to use Dice a few years ago to see the Sun Ra Arkestra. the app i had to download this time was Live Nation :(

hopefully i can just keep downloading different apps for each new show

The apps I've been encouraged or forced to use have been Dice, Ticketweb, Ticketmaster, AXS and occasionally some sort of bespoke app for a smaller venue. A whole generation or two has missed out on the joys of collecting ticket stubs.

all my ticket stubs are in the zip-up pocket of a CD wallet I have at my parents' place, pretty sure if I go through them the skin will slide off my bones

Music fans of the future will trade defunct venue apps in grimy basements while the Live Nation secret police scour the streets for any sign of the miscreants.

email from live nation a few days after the concert:

[Name], what did you (really) think of Cymande? Share your review!

okay so first i have to download an app, and now you want me to snitch?? unbelievable

gimme gimme free content!

https://bsky.app/profile/futureofmusic.bsky.social/post/3lmafjumw3c2y

Future of Music Coalition did an interesting bluesky thread about this CBS Sunday morning report on ticketmaster and ticket sales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dRcD6DPhdE

Future of Music Coalition notes that -- If Ticketmaster wanted to be more closely aligned with fans, they could do what they've done in the UK and voluntarily exit the resale-above-face-value market. But they'd rather complain about resale while profiting handsomely from it.

Another brilliant move (the actual headline says it all)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/music/music-industry-news/ticketmaster-appoints-new-global-president-saumil-mehta-1236401165/

The real opportunity lies in how we evolve the experience by building smarter and more intuitive ways for fans to connect with the live experiences that matter so much to them

i can't wait til we start guillotining all these people

Build more guillotines

From https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/harry-styles-tour-blood-tickets-1235505811/

“I do everything right. I’m not a bot. So the fact that I’m still [100,000th] in line and then when I get in, I see the ticket prices, and there’s barely anything available, and it’s all over $1,000 or like, $700 and they’re not even amazing seats. It’s so frustrating,” Engle says. “It’s like, ‘Harry, what are we doing?’”

(BTW, Styles' manager is Jeffrey Azoff - the son of you know who)

And also from https://www.ticketnews.com/2026/02/live-nations-two-front-strategy-fight-breakup-pressure-in-d-c-rewrite-the-rules-in-the-states/

Those cases have helped fuel rare bipartisan agreement that the ticketing market is fundamentally broken. But rather than allow that consensus to coalesce around structural remedies, Live Nation has pursued a more political track — one aimed at shaping the regulatory environment itself.

TicketNews has covered this effort extensively over the last year and a half.

Lobbying Muscle - Trump allies including Mike Davis – who helped guide a friendly DOJ settlement for Hewlett Packard in 2025, longtime GOP fundraiser Brian Ballard, whose firm disclosed ticketing‑policy lobbying earlier this year, and Kellyanne Conway have all been put on the payroll by Live Nation.

Board access - In May, Live Nation added Richard Grenell, a trusted Trump confidant and current Kennedy Center president, to its 11‑member board despite his limited entertainment résumé. Industry executives called the move “the most thinly veiled attempt to influence a legal proceeding that I’ve ever seen.”

Venue investment blitz - In June, the company announced a $1 billion plan to build or upgrade 18 venues, lavishing credit on a March 31 Trump executive order aimed at “combating unfair practices” in ticketing. Internal timelines reviewed by TicketNews show most of those projects were conceived long before the order—and well before Trump’s return to office—raising questions about the real motive.

Cold hard cash - Federal filings revealed this spring that Live Nation donated $500,000 to Trump’s inaugural committee, making it one of the top corporate backers of festivities surrounding the 47th president’s swearing‑in.

Long breakdown on the Harry Styles MSG ticket fiasco and Ticketmaster/LiveNation ripoffs in general https://finelineproject.substack.com/p/take-the-money-and-run-harry-styles

It's really depressing what's happened to the concert industry.

So many people accept never seeing any of their favorite acts or paying so much for them they're too stressed to enjoy them

Also artist complicity in it is depressing

Trump fired the head of the Antitrust division recently, and today one week into the trial, Live Nation and the Justice Department announced a tentative settlement that allows Live Nation to Keep Ticketmaster.

Under the settlement, Ticketmaster will be required to open parts of its platform to rival ticketing companies, allowing third-party sellers such as SeatGeek or Eventbrite to list tickets directly through Ticketmaster’s technology.

The deal also places new limits on the long-term exclusivity contracts Ticketmaster has historically used to lock venues into its system, cutting those agreements down to four years and allowing venues to allocate a portion of their tickets to competing platforms.

The Justice Department argued the company controls roughly 78 percent of the country’s major amphitheaters, a scarce venue category that gives Live Nation outsized leverage.

Under the agreement, Live Nation will be required to divest more than 10 amphitheaters, creating more independently operated venues and loosening the company’s hold on the live music ecosystem.

The settlement also takes aim at Ticketmaster’s service fees at its amphitheaters. Under the deal, the company will be required to cap those fees at 15 percent of a ticket’s price.

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/03/09/live-nation-reaches-settlement-with-doj-in-antitrust-fight-00818564

“The settlement recently announced with the U.S. Department of Justice fails to address the monopoly at the center of this case, and would benefit Live Nation at the expense of consumers. We cannot agree to it,” New York Attorney General Letitia James said in a statement, vowing to continue New York’s suit against the company. James said that attorneys general in 25 other states and the District of Columbia also plan to keep fighting in court.

From Washington Post

Imagine how much that Velvet Underground pair of tickets would have cost of it happened now, as opposed to 1993

https://undilutableslangtruth.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/velvet-underground-ticket.jpg

https://prospect.org/2026/03/09/live-nation-settlement-spurs-chaos-in-court/

The Trump administration settled its antitrust case against Live Nation last week, but no one told the judge, the 12-member jury, or the Department of Justice attorneys prosecuting the case about the deal until this morning, causing a meltdown

https://prospect.org/2026/03/09/live-nation-settlement-spurs-chaos-in-court/

The Trump administration settled its antitrust case against Live Nation last week, but no one told the judge, the 12-member jury, or the Department of Justice attorneys prosecuting the case about the deal until this morning, causing a meltdown

Imagine how much that Velvet Underground pair of tickets would have cost of it happened now, as opposed to 1993

Brendan Canty on a hypothetical Fugazi reunion:

Say Fugazi got back together and put out a ticket for that show at the insane price of $25. All those tickets would sell out and immediately be sold through the third markets for $500 each or whatever. And then we’d be back to being complicit in a system that we don’t want to be involved with in the first place. The way that tickets are sold and resold by computers over these third-party dealers is really disgusting.

https://www.theverge.com/policy/893272/live-nation-ticketmaster-doj-settlement-states

Plus, as long as Live Nation and Ticketmaster are linked, the company could theoretically shift around lost revenue from fee caps to other areas. It could either offer less to artists, or drive up ticket prices in the underlying costs before fees, Werde said. Similar dynamics may persist for the company’s power over concert venues, too. “As long as Live Nation still owns Ticketmaster, whether the Justice Department has proven anything or not, whether Live Nation is threatening people with this or not, the leverage is pretty clear and implied,” Werde said. “The thing about leverage is, if you really have it, you don’t usually need to throw it around.”

From a Rolling Stone mag tweet about their paywalled article on the live nation lawsuit and settlement

Two Live Nation ticketing directors boasted about “robbing” fans blind and “taking advantage of them” with high fees in newly unsealed chat records tied to the company’s antitrust lawsuit.

Baker shared a screenshot of a spreadsheet showing how premier parking gross revenue had jumped from about $470,000 in 2018 to about $666,000 in 2021. He commented: “Robbing them blind baby That’s how we do.” Weinhold replied, “lol.” ... “I have VIP parking up to $250 lol.” He then said, “I almost feel bad taking advantage of them,” followed by an all-caps, “BAHAHAHAHAHA.”

Another reason why we need higher taxes, these folks willing to pay $250 for a parking spot

In a statement LiveNation described the guys from these chats as "a junior staffer and his friend" - Baker is literally their head of ticketing.

They didn't fire him

https://www.theverge.com/policy/894851/states-live-nation-monopoly-trial

While some Republican led states have agreed to a similar settlement deal as the Trump administration did, the Judge is allowing the remaining states (mostly Dem led) to continue the case and trial.

of course they didn’t fire him, he was just stating the live nation ethos and they basically won the federal case

Kid Rock complaining on X about those Live Nation guys overcharging for parking at his shows and laughing about it. But Kid Rock doesn’t mention that his boy Trump settled the fed lawsuit

he was on the plaintiff's list of people to testify!

it'd be funny if this gets under his skin and makes him flip

Wall Street Journal- Now, lawyers and lobbyists representing companies under scrutiny by antitrust regulators regularly make their arguments directly to senior DOJ officials. Trump himself intervened in the department’s antitrust investigation into the concert promoter Live Nation, urging aides to reach a settlement.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/lobbyists-antitrust-trump-davis-f6a02e04?st=HbDgTW&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Ah but!

https://apnews.com/article/live-nation-ticketmaster-antitrust-trial-f0ffdd20dd4f64e8b4bb9d97134b826f

can a legal/industry type person explain to me what the difference is between this trial and the suit that was dismissed recently?

It's all the same trial. Basically the DOJ said they reached a settlement but many participating states in the suit all went "Yeah fuck that" and pressed ahead and here we are.

ty!

get em

When the feds were bringing the case there was talk that Live Nation and Ticketmaster could be split up as part of a winning verdict in addition to new rules on resales of tickets and such; more limits on Live Nation owning so many arenas themselves; but not clear here what this more limited number of states and the judge will decide here-

After the victory, Kessler would not say specifically what the states will seek in the next phase of the litigation, which was expected to involve another lengthy legal proceeding before penalties are decided.

Testimony now from club owners, promoters and musicians like Franz Nicolay.

https://www.c-span.org/event/public-affairs-event/lawmakers-hold-forum-on-ticketmaster-amid-illegal-monopoly-verdict/443209