The new Outkast has leaked

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You can download it from me on SoulSeek (once I get done downloading it).

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

username?

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 11 September 2003 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

cloud1049 has it

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 11 September 2003 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry cloud149

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 11 September 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

and there's only like 4 trillion people waiting for it

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 11 September 2003 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"unhappy" is v. nice.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 11 September 2003 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

countdown to first 'omg' : 8 posts.
countdown to stevem hosting: 29 posts
"this is better than the neptunes": 38 posts
"this is better than kish kash": 39 posts
"fuck outkast": trife, 314 posts

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Thursday, 11 September 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck outkast!!

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

does the fact that we lept ahead 313 posts mean that I missed out on the stevem hosting? :( dammit, trife.

― flightsatdusk (flightsatdusk), Thursday, 11 September 2003 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

im gonna have an email argument abt it with another writer printed uin my free weekly, like the sasha frere jones radiohead thing!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 11 September 2003 19:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm MisterSnrub!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 11 September 2003 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

As previously reported, frontwoman Gwen Stefani is working on her Interscope solo debut with assistance from No Doubt bassist Tony Kanal, members of Outkast and producers Dallas Austin and Damon Elliott. The set is penciled in for a spring 2004 release.

http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1977600

― Bomic Cook Guy, Thursday, 11 September 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

outkast remix of hey baby is one of the few things theyve done that i liked

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 11 September 2003 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't hate like Outkast does, but a recent listen to Stankonia reaffirmed how bloated that album is (I can turn it off after "Humble Mumble."). I can't imagine that a double-CD from these guys won't be filler-happy. Great singles artists, though.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 11 September 2003 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

their filler-happy greatest hits cd says otherwise!

― trife (simon_tr), Thursday, 11 September 2003 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

haha. Maybe they only became singles artists on Aquemini. As I said, I'm not hating, but frankly it's a bit refreshing to hear somebody note that they are in no possible way saviors of anything except "single of the year." And maybe music videos. They make GREAT music videos.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 11 September 2003 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

That one track on Aquemini which is a remake of one of their first things ever is actually so damn good though.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 12 September 2003 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

southernplayalistic is their only album (well, cassette) ive ever owned!! its ok

― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 12 September 2003 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

it's really dense

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

speakerboxxx >> the love below.

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 12 September 2003 07:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ok so i like heard the single being played on, of all things, KROQ two days ago (no i DON'T listen to KROQ, but there were commercials on both Power 106 and The Beat so i had to go somewhere) And I listen to Power 106 and The Beat (biggest commercial hip-hop stations in LA) everyday in the car, and have never heard it even once on there yet...

...so um, is this still going to be filed under Black-People Music that Mostly White People Listen To ?

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 12 September 2003 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

density is the new minimalism

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 08:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(that was a very boring and pat thing to say)

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 08:15 (twenty-two years ago)

wasn't boring: just doesn't make sense.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:23 (twenty-two years ago)

well, as little as a month ago i remember Ronan questioning the 'less = avant' equation - the (alleged) maximalism of speakerboxxxetc and kish kash point to something else. maybe. i was being facetious really.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm really loving speakerboxxx, actually. it's no kish kash though. i should give the love below another go, i guess.

incidentally why aren't more people posting here?! i thought people were excited about this album...

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i only listened to it once, and not even properly then, but [SPOILER ALERT] the andre drum n bass cover of "my favourite things" sounded godawful.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 12 September 2003 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

love below >>>>>> speakerboxxx

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

but yes, outkast should never touch drum & bass ever again

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

also, by splitting the "camille" from the "spooky electric" i'm not quite sure what they've achieved here.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(obv it's not a total split)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Love their previous work, but with the pre-release cuts I heard i was worried. Boi's stuff is pleasant enough hip-hop, nothing to write home about. But the Andre LP is about as bad as you can get. A prime example of 'Experimentaion' and 'freedom' not equalling quality.

I'm sure it'll get the sunshine praised out of it's arse though as forward thinking and fresh..blah blah.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Friday, 12 September 2003 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i told everyone the big boi cd would be the only listenable one!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 12 September 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

you were wrong

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Speakerbox = the great road-trippin' album, the great gettin' hype goin' out album

The Love Below = the great ganja smokin' album, the more appropriate for fuckin' to album

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

(ha ha based on skimming through bits and pieces)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 18:44 (twenty-two years ago)

god, this record is a disappointment. seriously. the big boi record is passable hip-hop/soul pastiche/hybrid, but nowhere near the level of past work. the dre disc aims for prince but ends up as mr. bungle or something. there's not a single track i don't have the urge to skip. they should have just broken up and released seperate solo discs so as not to saddled the name with this as the capstone.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha jess in hating everything I love about it shockah!

The Big Boi disk sounds like beach parties to me whereas the Andre disc sounds like opium-smoke-filled orgy rooms.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

nickalicious in liking tepid funk-rock shocker

― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

This is the most I've ever liked anything Big Boi's done yet; until now his & Dre's styles often conflicted just too much (Dre being all sentimental and serious and very good with it, Big Boi puttin' his dick all up her mouf, fr'instance)...getting out into his own ideas like this has opened him up something fierce.

With the Andre disk it's more like stuff he's always aimed towards but seemed like he didn't want to go towards full force or else he might lose some part of their fanbase...I'm glad he took the plunge (and also that this is presented second of the two). It is definitely much more appropriate if you're not expecting what one might expect from pre-now Andre.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

(between this and the Cee-Lo CD coming out next month[?] all my previous best-of lists are fucked)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha if this and Prince and P-Funk are tepid funk rock so be it

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

It's definitely suffering from double album-itis. There's way too much here, and it feels really messy with the final track sequence.

Great moments tho... "Ghettomusick", "Hey Ya", "Unhappy", "The Way You Move", "She Lives in My Lap"

Dre should not have opened his record with those first three songs.

― Scott Warner (thream), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

the difference is that p-funk and prince actually FUNKED and ROCKED and did all sorts of other things beside. this sort of marinates in its own overblownness, congealing into the type of badness than can only be born out of the reach exceeding the grasp.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

The Andre disc is just embarrassing... forget Prince and P-Funk, it's Cody Chesnutt and Terence Trent D'Arby. The Big Boi disc is just average.

I do really like all the first tracks that leaked--Hey Ya, Ghettomusik, I Like the Way You Move, She Lives in My Lap, Flip Flop Rock. But it's heavily diminishing returns after that. I think there are probably a couple more good ones in there somewhere. It maybe could have been an OK single disc.

But generally... the sum of the parts is much, much greater.

― Ben Williams, Friday, 12 September 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

'nza' one of those things is not like the others!!! xpost with jess

― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

p.s. i, unlike trife, actually like outkast which is why this is such a disappointment.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I definitely see your point, I guess I just wish I could understand what there is to dislike about these albums, but it just ain't happening.

OH MY GOD PEOPLE IN LIKING DIFFERENT MUSICS SHOCKAH!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, it's not like prince's reach hasn't exceeded his grasp every year since 1992!

(and clinton since about 86.)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

And hey now on the Cody Chestnutt hate, sure his album's almost entirely wack but "Bitch I'm Broke" is like one of the best songs ever.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i dont hate organic 'funky' outkast that much, a while back i actually warmed to aquemini (the song not the zzz record) after seeing it in the mekhi phifer movie 'o', and ive always maintained that rosa parks is pretty good except for the appalling harmonia break

― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(It did make me laugh when Dre has his conversation with God, confesses to cheating on his girlfriend once, but says it was just a blowjob, you understand right God? *pause, presumably while God speaks* Thanks, I knew you would...)

The only time Prince has reached since 92 was Rainbow Children.

― Ben Williams, Friday, 12 September 2003 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

way up this thing, on my first post, I said "Outkast" when I meant "Trife."

I'm so not gonna buy this thing now.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 12 September 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The "appalling harmonica break" is the best part of "Rosa Parks"!

If I wasn't in a full-blown industrial dance frenzy (YAY MY LIFE WITH THE THRILL KILL KULT) I would have this on repeat. I'm not sure it's good enough to crack my top 5 of the year, but it's definitely in my top 10.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 12 September 2003 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I was looking forward to this but Jess is (has been this year) quite a consistent selector. Have you heard the Strokes record Jess?

― David. (Cozen), Friday, 12 September 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i have not but i am quite curious to.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

86? = is being generous (re. clinton)

i fear disappointment, but at least this thread has somewhat downscaled my expectations. so did the recent "new york times" piece on dre (and a little snippet about big boi, who is clearly is less interest to the NYT readership) where he expresses fairly milquetoast (blaquetoast?) MOR-type ambitions ("i'm listening to a lot of coltrane, none of that rap stuff anymore) which kind of made me sad.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

His favourite singer is Billy Ocean! He has a fish called Billy Ocean!

― David. (Cozen), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

see i don't know how to take that, since i have a big soft spot for billy ocean.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:42 (twenty-two years ago)

having a fish called "billy ocean" is pretty classic any way you look at it. would that "billy ocean" could have been the name of the first amphibious blaxploitation hero.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

the billy ocean thing makes so much sense, really.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"billy ocean" the movie -- soundtrack by bobby womack, everything filtered through one of those "underwater" petals.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

er PEDALS

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 12 September 2003 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

You can debate this and argue that, but there are some things in life that we humans tend to understand to be inarguable truths, and one of these inarguable truths is that OutKast are the fucking greatest.

― Evan (Evan), Saturday, 13 September 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I just read Will Hermes in Entertainment Weekly(he also writes for Spin) drooling all over the effort. He gives it an A and says "its ambition flies so far beyond that of anyone doing rap right now(or pop, or rock, or R&B), awards shows may need to create a special category for it." He also does say it is "maybe overlong--on skits and stylistic spelunking...," and says about Dre's singing, "his nasal drawl isn't the greatest instrument." But he then says that "Dre's limitations read here like strengths."

I'm a bit skeptical of Hermes' hyperbole.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Saturday, 13 September 2003 11:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I also got sick
of stankonia but I
will listen, then judge

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 13 September 2003 11:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, it seemed like a year or so ago many of the stories about Dre talked about him studying Hendrix videos and learning to play the guitar. Now the features talk about him living in Los Angeles, learning to play sax, and simultaneously wanting to go to music school and learn how to compose jazz and soundtrack whatever genre sounds(go ahead and groan popism devotees); and further an acting career. He's an interesting guy no matter how successful this latest cd effort may be.

― Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Saturday, 13 September 2003 11:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Big Boi's disc is strong and consistent throughout, and gains by not trying to fill up the CD (it runs a conservative 56 mins.).

But it's Dre's disc that rules the school. "Love Hater", "She Lives In My Lap", "Pink and Blue", "She's Alive", "Hey Ya!", "Take Off Your Cool"...
Although for all the apparent effort to make it a concept album, I get lost when "Roses" hits but by then I don't care.

― Simon H., Saturday, 13 September 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

re: Play on KROQ and Power in LA, "Black-People Music that Mostly White People Listen To"

Arista is simultaneously marketing "Hey Ya" to alternative radio and "The Way You Move" to urban stations. Even the videos are format-specific (the former being ha-ha kooky and the latter filled w/booty).

"Hey Ya" is on the KROQ playlist and "The Way You Move" is on Power, but the former clearly appears to be getting the most attention ( Apparently it's the most requested song on the station at the moment).

I'm digging the discs. Dre's record starts off really silly before progressing into some reality quality stuff.

― Scott Warner (thream), Saturday, 13 September 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

err "reality" = "really"

― Scott Warner (thream), Saturday, 13 September 2003 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I hope the fact that Dre's stuff is pretty bad won't be overshadowed by the fact that an hip-hop artist has shifted to new genres which are more worthy od discussion. I get the feeling that people are already planning great reviews because of what Dre has done and not because of the quality of the work.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Saturday, 13 September 2003 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

don't worry, i plan on registering my disgust in print, at least once.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 13 September 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

GRRRR. "She Lives In My Lap" is fucking incredible and confirms my thoughts that Rosario Dawson should live in my lap.

Scott, are you intentionally stating that hip-hop is less worthy of discussion than other genres or did you misspeak?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 13 September 2003 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't heard the whole thing yet, but I will say that the first few seconds of the intro to Speakerboxxx had me all "Oh shit, an homage to Meat Beat Manifesto's 'Cutman'!"

So far, from what I've downloaded: Some of the tracks don't register right away. But "Bowtie" is definitely going on someone's mixtape right next to Jaxx's "Supersonic", "The Rooster" is dirty dirty dirty, and "Bust" 1-2 is Sabbath/Funkadelic '71 rap-rock so YAY

I have a feeling many many writers will compare this to Sandinista. I will not know how to feel about that, since Sandinista is usually code-speak for "too much experimental filler crap", but it was 85% great and this might be about 55%.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Sunday, 14 September 2003 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

dan, i think scott meant worthy of discussion as in "worthy of discussion"

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 14 September 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

trife, what do you think of outkast as mcs? big boi on "all up in my grill", say?

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 14 September 2003 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan Perry, I meant that some folk (not me, been a fan of it since 'nation of millions') will see the Dre disc as being worthy of praise simply because he no longer does relatively straight hip-hop and not because it's actually any good. Sorry I'm not too good at this wrting malarkey.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Sunday, 14 September 2003 11:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I really haven't been able to muster much excitement about the prospect of a new Outkast album just because in the past couple years they've become pretty much the 800th most interesting thing happening in ATL, and all the other good shit has very little to do with them, aside from the occasional guest appearance.

i usually don't do a lot of pre-release downloading, but someone's ftp address fell into my hands and I decided to go ahead and get this record, probably more so I can make sense of the ILM threads than anything else.

right now I'm through most of Speakerboxxx and am kind of afraid to touch The Love Below...I think there's actually too much Dre on the Big Boi disc. his damn helium voice stuff is all over the place and mostly unwelcome. "Bowtie" and "Church" are good, but a lot of it's eh. it would've been nice if BB had gone more dirty south, but even the tracks w/ Lil Jon and Luda aren't doing it for me. the tracks that've gotten the most talk, "Flip Flop Rock" and "Ghettomusick" aren't really what I expected, time will tell if they grow on me.

― Al (sitcom), Sunday, 14 September 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

big boi's plaid suit in his new video is priceless, but even better is the guy floating down to the dance floor using an umbrella. overall the video is a total mess, but not an unappealing mess.

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 14 September 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

as opposed to the album.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

sigh, sad but true

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

chaos & disorder >>> the love below > speakerboxxx

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Will Hermes' review kind of alarmed me, or called attention to something I've always wondered. And not just because I thought the review was a bit below his standards.

Is Outkast the token hip hop album that all the whiteboy critics will profess to love because it's one of maybe a dozen hip hop albums they will listen to/review all year?

Lots of whiteboy crits I know will ALWAYS profess to be down with at least one hip hop album per year...you know, it somehow sort of proves you're not a rockist or a bigot and all that. These are the same people who will dutifully put a couple of Top 40 albums on their lists at the end of the year in order to balance out their slew of Yo La Tengo, Modest Mouse, and other non-commericial enterprises.

There's nothing wrong with this.

But sometimes it seems there is something perceived as implicitly wrong if you are a writer and completely ignore hip hop. I mean, you can ignore country all you want (of course, you're likely to put Alison Moorer or Lucinda or, this year, Kathleed Edwards on your top ten list) but if you want to be seen as somewhat with it then you'd better get in line and praise Stankonia. Or whatever Stankonia is that year.

Or am I fucked in the head about this?

― don weiner, Monday, 15 September 2003 00:12 (twenty-two years ago)

a quick click through ballots on pazz & jop reveals a LOT of critics where the album list is all big indie records of the moment and the singles list (if they have one at all) is full of the expected radio singles. so perhaps not, but trying to pick apart motives for listening/listing is a tricky bizness.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

still I would be very shocked if chicken and beer isn't better than speakerboxxx/the love below ("if you think the title's awkward wait til you hear the album!") and I will be even more shocked if somehow ludacris beats outkast in the p&j.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I like: "spread" thru "hey ya" (unless "spread" isn't about anal sex), "good day sir" (I think the love below's just too willfully odd to be just dismissed as cody chesnutt)(it's also just too willfully odd) and "dracula's wedding". I think if the dre record were just a bit flakier, maybe...wait for it... possessed another jawdropper 'wtf were you thinking' moment like "my favorite things" (a 2-step remake of "horny toad" perhaps) and possessed at least one undeniably great single - "hey ya"'s the best frank black since teenager of the year (ie. good but not good enough for undeniably great) and while I love "she lives in my lap" for reminding me of "the ballad of dorothy parker" and "she's always in my hair" it isn't actually as good as either - it could be admired maybe even loved as a noble failure or oddity instead of just a failure - somehow he overreached without even reaching very far. I was never that impressed with "ghettomusick (n hour mess age)" or "flip flop rock" but they're definitely the highlights of speakerboxxx - nevermind lud, the ying yang twins could chump this in their sleep. jess otm (rimshot) invoking george clinton, prince cuz in the past outkast clearly wallowed in and fed off that influence and this record really really really feels like clinton, prince after they lost the plot. lesson learned: don't pull the thang out, unless you plan to bang. don't even bang unless you plan to hit something.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

ok i got through most of the Dre half but I had to put it down to come back to later. the skit w/ Farnsworth Bentley is totally the best thing about it, though.

I don't necessarily have beef with Dre abandoning the hip hop template, but I don't know why he had to pretty much stop rapping altogether. because by "singing", all he's basically doing now is drawing out the syllables so that there's not nearly as many words, with worse lyrics and not much more inflection or melody than was in his raps to begin with. and i always thought he was the stronger rapper of the 2 of them.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

My disappointment is gradually leaking into "getting fucking irritated here, dammit". Even after a rampant culling of anything worse than "okayish" -- and the skits -- there's still a good hour's worth of stuff here (albeit only five Andre 3000 songs, and consider I am probably alone here in really liking "Prototype", stank you very much). But it feels oddly hollow, and I feel I have to divorce many of these songs from their "appearance on an Outkast album" context and shoehorn them into some sort of alternate-universe soundtrack or a mixtape or something that exists independently of other Outkast records, Prince records, P-Funk records -- and that's damn near impossible. And "Overreaching without reaching very far" is OTM.

That said, does Speakerboxxx/The Love Below > Blueprint 2?

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

no way. The Gift And The Curse had plenty hot shit, despite poor single choices and inevitable filler. and Jay went pretty all over the map with producers and guests, whereas Outkast stay pretty well in their little bubble, barely even acknowledging all the amazing shit going on in ATL right now.

plus "Poppin' Tags" > "Flip Flop Rock".

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Poppin' Tags" owns all, yes.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

out of curiousity, how many of the folks disappointed by the new 2CD think Stankonia is priceless, or did and don't anymore?

(personally, "B.O.B." still makes me shit my pants but you can turn it off after "Humble Mumble")

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(and even that abbreviated version of the album has some whatevers on it)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I still think Stankonia's pretty great (though I never actually bought it cuz I heard it EVERYWHERE and if I ever need to hear it again both my sisters have it) but I didn't think it was better than Aquemini, and I didn't think Aquemini was that much better than ATLiens.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah I don't really like Stankonia much now, aside from a few non-singles that still sound kinda fresh...hopefully all the voice manipulation on Speakerboxxx won't ruin "Red Velvet" for me.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 15 September 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I like about 90% of Stankonia if you don't count the skits. (If you do, then it's 92%.)

And turning it off after "Humble Mumble" means you miss "Red Velvet", "Gangsta Shit" and "Slum Beautiful", so BOO TO THAT

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you people are insane and/or ridiculously predictable. Some of you couldn't WAIT to criticisze this for not living up to the mythical goliath that you built up in your heads; it's like the exact opposite of the Basement Jaxx effect. (Then again, the white folks get much more slack around here than the black folks do. No, I'm not taking that statement back because it's TRUE.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Basically, it seems that unless a black musician is a blinged-out thug, ILM wants nothing to do with them. FUCK THAT.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

fwiw I still like Remedy and "Romeo" better than Kish Kash

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

dan that's the stupidest thing you've ever said.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(See, it only takes two vodkas for me to call ILM on its "Jay Z is a god even if 50% of his stuff is irredeemable SHIT" minstrel-worship.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

(competition not thin on the ground there, either.)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan show me a single post from a poster other than trife that could justify that assertion

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean how could 'chaos & disorder >>> the love below > speakerboxxx' be read as bling puritanism?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't see anyone have a problem calling blueprint 2 shit, including this here jerimiah.

or the use your illusions, for that matter, if we wanna get all racial.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

dan i can't play most of the album coz of stupid mp4s instead of mp3s crashing my computer.

but goddamn ghettomusick is a MESS, and if the other tracks are as slashed-together then maybe that's the real problem.

anyway i thought b-boi's side kept it real gangsta lyrically, at least from what i heard?

(oh and cutting trife out like that is a nasty nasty move blount)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it would be a fair attack of trife either fwiw (just that it wouldn't be a novel attack of him either)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I have yet to come to exact terms with why exactly I'm disappointed* with the new Outkast, to be honest. Maybe I'm listening with ILM ears instead of my own. I think a good point of reference (for me, at least) is Phrenology, which succeeded hugely where some of the bits of S/TLB only half-worked.

*Odds are this could be another one of those growers. Fuck, I don't know. Now I'm even more flustered.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a hard realization when heroes fall short. there's nothing that should be "easy" about it. anyone who i thinks i take perverse glee slating an album i had been waiting for for months is wrong wrong wrong.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:39 (twenty-two years ago)

and anyway, saying i should prefer something just because it might be "uplifting" or "conscious" or "good for me" is a bit like saying i should enjoy a donovan double lp over exile on main st.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

or "the cross" over "housequake"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

well like I said earlier, I wasn't particularly eager about this record in any way, to listen to or talk about positively or negatively. but i came across the mp3's and decided to give it a shot and shared some thoughts.

i think the whole thing is kind of interesting because while the album isn't entirely predictable, i think that most of the predictions people made way back when the split/solo album idea was announced have turned out to be OTM, as far as Big Boi being consistent but a bit boring and Andre going off the deep end. if you want to interpret that as people making up their minds before hearing it, so be it.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(actually i do prefer "the cross" to "housequake" *ducks*)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Likewise, saying I should prefer something for being "dangerous" or "subversive" or "scares your parents and indie kids" means I should like Limp Bizkit more than The Village Green Preservation Society

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

actually i do prefer "the cross" to "housequake" *ducks*

You're not alone, actually.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 September 2003 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

gabbo you hippie!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 03:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I like "the cross" alot (I like every single song on sign o the times) too, but gimme faux-jb over proto-lenny every time

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe change it to "3 chains of gold" over "erotic city"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 15 September 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha I'm listening to it now and I totally see why jess said it was all mr.bungle-like before except that it's the big bwoi disc right now that makes me think of that comparison cuz of all the splicey jumpy people-on-bad-acid-making-mix-tapes-of-everything-they've-ever-loved-in-their-life-regardless-of-"genre" vibe to it and I hate you guyz and love this disc so what...evah

the andre disc sounds much MUCH better when you learn not to expect certain things from it and appreciate it for a nice mellow slice of jams

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 15 September 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I really like "Unhappy", especially the music and the chorus.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 15 September 2003 07:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Certain ILMers in "refutation of the hive-mind shockah" even when for once the hive-mind is actually right (everyone'll still choose B Jaxx come the end of the year though). I can practically see knees jerking (for both reasons). There isn't a single second of this that I haven't thoroughly enjoyed thus far, and some of it has been nothing short of fucking awesome. Nickalicious, Dan Perry; do you wanna dance? Shall we? Shall we? Lets!

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds better on the radio than kish kash = is better than kish kash

― Dan I., Monday, 15 September 2003 08:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Course I had to go and say that after only hearing the way you move and now the rest of the album isn't so good. :(

― Dan I., Monday, 15 September 2003 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd like to apologize for suddenly being 13 again for a little while back there.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Andre's disc starts off pretty appallingly, but from 'She Lives In My Lap' onwards it's pretty cool.

I can see stylistically why they chose to split it into two albums, but there's really only about 15 truly worthwhile tracks between them.

― Mil, Monday, 15 September 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

ONLY 15? That's 15 more than a lot of other albums.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Monday, 15 September 2003 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The only thing I really expected from these LPs was a lot of praise. As gansta'ed out as I am, I like Boi on the whole because its fresh sounding, fun and has some clever lyrics. I don't like Andre on the whole because its erratic, scrambled and weak lyrically.

I will admit though to be already on the defensive of Boi's half as he's always been painted as holding Dre back and being the straight hip-hop half to mad genius Andre. It's surely clear to all now that it it takes two to make Outkast as top as they are.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Monday, 15 September 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoops. As it turns out, I only got about half the Andre disc. Ha, my verdict reverts back to undecided. (He has a song about DRACULA, dammit! That has to be great!)

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Monday, 15 September 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

anyone who i thinks i take perverse glee slating an album i had been waiting for for months is wrong wrong wrong.

I definitely don't get any glee out of being disappointed by an album, but if the rest of the world continues to lick the artist's ass, THEN I might start enjoying being harsh.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 September 2003 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

<< ONLY 15? That's 15 more than a lot of other albums.

Yeah, if they pared it down to 15 tracks it would've been a fantastic album.

But out of an album of 39 tracks, it means more than every second track is mediocre or skippable IMO. Not good enough.

― Mil, Monday, 15 September 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

If it costs $16 then it's Not Givin' A Fuck Time

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha, I just looked up "Pink and Blue" on allmusic.com and there's only one song title listed with that name. It is on this album.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

That "Favorite Things" cover is odd as fuck but at least it's an instrumental. Seems like an "I could do something as krazee and revolutionary to it as Coltrane did" maneuver. It feels a little overlong, though. I know someone's gonna do a mashup with this, and it will be bonkers.

I'm still of the mind that The Love Below >>>>>> Electric Circus, which in its own small way is some sort of success.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh man, Nate, baby, The Love Below stomps all over Electric Circus with great big hobnail boots. "Hey Ya" and "She Lives In My Lap" alone make it a great record. I've not gone near Electric Circus again since I reviewed it last December. Uergh. It's Common; he's got no charisma, whereas Andre's dripping with the stuff.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 08:04 (twenty-two years ago)

How on earth is it the opposite of the Jaxx thread, that would require people to have been expecting the Jaxx album to be shit.

I don't think I'll be bothering with this album anyway, I liked Stankonia in places but could never really love it.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 08:21 (twenty-two years ago)

y'all just haterzzz Big Boi and Dre are the BOMB and if You don't like it don't Listen to iT OK? Peace.

― Obligatory Googlers (amateurist), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 08:34 (twenty-two years ago)

39 tracks!!!!!! Dear Lord.

(not downloaded yet, i'll wait until it comes out or borrow somebody else's, I have a huge backlog of stuff I bought recently and not listened to properly so I'll continue to fence-sit in ignorance on this one.)

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the two discs have a nice yin/yang duality what with Big Boi's disc being all twitchy and hop-jumpy with it's rhythms and Dre's being laaaaaaaiiid baaaaack and tranquil and shit.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Big Boi's more consistent but Dre's with better individual moments shockah.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

people i wouldn't trust as far as i could throw for rap recommendations repping this album shocker

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

People being made to feel guilty and stupid for enjoying music on ILM shockah.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha yeah I really give a shit what gabbo thinks about anything anymore...

I like that this album both of 'em give up the pretense of repping hip-hop or trying to appease their fanbase and just do what they want to do with the music. It's not just brave as fuck, but (IMHO which never ever seems to coincide with ILM hivemind wtf?) fucking EXCITING (musically that is). It's not my fault if you don't see it (yet).

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

OR: people i wouldn't trust as far as i could throw for ANY MUSIC recommendations dissing this album shocker

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 13:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus all the crazy synth action on Big Boi's disc is the best shit for that since the mid-80s.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do some members of a fanbase love it so much when the artists they're fans of give them the finger?

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

All I know is I'm enjoying it lots. It's flawed as hell in places but that doesn't mean that it's not a good thing overall.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do some members of a fanbase love it so much when the artists they're fans of give them the finger?

Why is an artist following a musical ideology that people don't necessarily expect ALWAYS interpreted as giving the fans the finger?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

what if you totally expected it?

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

"expect the unexpected" is just another form of predictability.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Outkast are giving their fanbase the finger. I do think what they're doing is a little bit of a con, because it's plain that Andre 3000 doesn't really want to do Outkast anymore, he wants to go express himself, whereas Big Boi is more of the hard-headed businessman and he wants to continue the momentum after Stankonia. So they cleverly decided to release two solo albums as an Outkast album.

And I think it is to their detriment, because before the yin/yang thing used to work on the same track and now it's split into different tracks. So aside from a handful of excellent tracks, you get a lot of Big Boi stuff that is competent but uninspired straightahead hip-hop, and you get a lot of Dre stuff that is eccentric and self-indulgent wannabe-jazz.

I have nothing against people trying to stretch, but too often when people stretch self-consciously they wind up with some ersatz version of what they think is experimental. That My Favorite Things thing sums it up for me: He's into jazz, he loves how Coltrane and Miles pushed the boundaries, he wants to push the boundaries, so what does he do? Puts a cheesy drum 'n' bass beat under some Coltrane (or whoever) samples! Any wack producer might have done that (and probably did, for all I know) back in 1996.

That said, I do need to listen to it more and give it a proper chance, but it really turned me off off the bat.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

"expect the unexpected" is just another form of predictability.

only if it's unexpected in expected ways.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't really think it either Ben, I'm just puzzled by the argument "Mmm great theyve really turned their back on their fanbase this time!" from said fanbase.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Ben Williams OTM in terms of the motivation behind it being a double under the Outkast moniker.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

what if you totally expected it?

What if my statement wasn't addressing you? (Put another way, what part of "not necessarily expect" is unclear?)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, I don't think you should presume that nickalicious speaks for the entirety of Outkast fans?

I actually agree with jess on this, I've not listened to much of the album (my computer got jacked up immediately after download! I blame the RIAA), but I don't see why anyone who has listened to, you know, ATLiens, Aquemeni and Stankonia would be surprised by Outkast, you know, wanking around and creating "unexpected" music. That's kind of their modus operandi and the main thing everyone goes all wet in the pants over them about, at least from what I can tell from the reaction every time they release a damned album. "B.O.B.! Wow! It's totally different! It pisses all over everything ever in hip hop! How unexpected!" etc.

I think it'd be more surprising if they released a double CD of songs that sounded exactly like Usher and the Rocafella label.

xpost: what if I just started giving you all the finger because that's basically what you people are just doing to each other at this point? This entire conversation has become that scene in South Park when the kid and his family just flip each other off for an entire dinner.

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't love this album because it's different or "pushes boundaries" or anything like that, I love this album because I like the tunes. I don't know exactly how expectations play into people's level of appreciation for this thing, all I'm saying is that, personally, where I was expecting yet another thick-sounding rhythmically-and-melodically-diverse album featuring the humors and hindsights of Andre and Big Boi, I heard this and wasn't exactly floored like "oh my god how creative!", but was thoroughly pleased by it in that this disc(s) have what are IMHO good songs.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

what if I just started giving you all the finger because that's basically what you people are just doing to each other at this point?

http://www.ciadvertising.org/studies/student/99_spring/theory/eileen/harper/images/middle-finger.gif

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah sorry Nickalicious for picking on you but it just happened to be the time it struck me what a weird thing the fanbase argument is.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well you weren't really "picking on" nickalicious; that's basically exactly what he said.

"I like that this album both of 'em give up the pretense of repping hip-hop or trying to appease their fanbase and just do what they want to do with the music. It's not just brave as fuck, but (IMHO which never ever seems to coincide with ILM hivemind wtf?) fucking EXCITING (musically that is)."

― Ally (mlescaut), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, ain't nobody picking on me (well except jess who seems like he's always picking on me), and I totally phrased that fuckedup'dly, what I was trying to say mostly is that maybe some people didn't like this album because they expected certain things from it, not so much that they were trying to give their fanbase the finger, but more like that they wanted to explore other less similar-to-their-earlier-template styles of expression. Of course, we've already discussed the expectations aspect upthread, haven't we?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i actually think most people on this thread have done a good job evaluating this on its merits.

what i was trying to say when talking about the NYT feature is that it is good to have an OutKast, who have hip-hop cred but stand increasingly outside of the h.-h. mainstream. it's just refreshing to hear something on BET or h.-.h. radio that sounds like "hey ya," even if it's not the greatest single in the world. it stands to open up the sonic pallette of hip-hop a little, encourage others to try certain things that they wouldn't previously have thought saleable. the problem, and i think the NYT article hinted at this even though it walked the line pretty admirably, is when O.K. are used as a means of browbeating mainstream hip-hop, of establishing values for quality rap that notably exclude much of that. i think it's right to be a bit (a BIT) on guard against such an argument, but (BUT) i don't honestly think anyone's used it here yet.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread confuses me so bad with its sudden general embracing of rockist album tropes

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

like 'value for money'?

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 16 September 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't pay for it!

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

gabbo makes my point for me, thanx j

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

could someone make J0hn's point for me (with twice the clarity and half the snark if possible)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Ben Williams is kinda OTM, except about Big Boi's disc being "competent but uninspired straightahead hip-hop", which it really isn't. production-wise, it's basically Stankonia 2 with a smidgen less Andre.

I got around to listening to the rest of The Love Below tonight, and either the 2nd half is a lot better or I was just in a better mood to hear it. I've realized, though, that it isn't so much that the song-y songs are problematic, but that the songs are pretty underwritten...he just kind of vamps for a few minutes and adds bells and whistles or brings in Kelis or Norah Jones to sing a few lines and then that's it. I never heard the Cee-Lo album but somehow I imagine it doing a lot of the same stuff as Andre's album except a lot better.

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

A LOT better

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I just got "Hey ya", there are maybe 4-5 tracks I'd be happy to say I actually enjoyed but Al's comment on Boi being stankonia without the Andre is dead right.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 06:21 (twenty-two years ago)

theres at least 3 classic songs on the Andre disc

― Michael B, Wednesday, 17 September 2003 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I have to agree with the poster above who said that it gets dodgy after "Roses" and I'd have to agree with Anthony that Outkast are a really good singles band. "Stankonia" loses my interest by the end too. Jess sez there's not a single track i don't have the urge to skip I mean WHAT?....."Spread", "Valentines Day " and "Hey ya" awesome

― Michael B, Wednesday, 17 September 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay my Velvets : Outkast analogy is holding up surprisingly well. And I always did say that Dre was the Reed of the two.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 September 2003 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah! It's the arguement-starting album of the year!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 18 September 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

is sterling saying this is outkast's squeeze?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

what velvet:outkast analogy?

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Thursday, 18 September 2003 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Velvet Outkast vs Velvet Elvis

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 September 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Them dirty boys turn your poundcake to Lou Reed

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

My Eminem: Prince analogy will kick Sterling's Outkast:Velvets analogy's ass as long as Marshall's next album is his psychedelic relative flop.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

is there a new d12 album coming out?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Walgreens'* actually sells little mass-produced red velvet minicakes alongside the banana and chocolate cakes, and those fuckers are tasty.

*a drugstore.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:19 (twenty-two years ago)

After reading the new Prince bio, I wanna make D12 analogous to that instrumental sideproject Prince had in the early 80s (the one who numbered all their songs). The name escapes me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

madhouse. they were wank.

― scottjames23 (worrysome-man), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

The Love Below is really confusing. I love it? Maybe? I have no idea. It sags a bit in the middle, but "Vibrate" is a nice recovery- backwards beats do it for me every time. Yes, it's corny as all get out, but I like his d&b "My Favorite Things." I know I'll regret saying that, and I can't figure out WHAT it's doing in the middle of this album, but it's ok for what it is. It sort of works as logical extension of "Spread" - I imagine Andre sitting in his basement jamming, running through "Bombs Over Baghdad"...Big Boi gets tired, goes home, Andre spazzes out and records that song about anal sex he's been trying to finish ("Spread") then just lets the drum machine keep going, thinks about Coltrane and plays "My Favorite Things." In the morning he realizes the tape is still running.

― rob geary (rgeary), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 05:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I just got Speakerboxx/The Love Below for $11.65 (US) at Best Buy!!!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I had no idea that was Rosario Dawson singing on "She Lives In My Lap"! WTF!?!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The horns in "Bowtie" are two shades smoother than melted butter.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Best Buy is a whore. Still, congrats on that truly best buy.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

well, I marched down to the Tower Records down the street from my office to buy this after giving up on a promo showing up (I got Stankonia).

I'm about 2/3 through the Dre disc and am pretty dissappointed, but then again I think I'm disappointed by everything on first listen.

I really like "Roses" which doesn't seem to be getting much attention on this thread. I also note that it's the only track on the Dre disc that Big Boi gets a credit on as well, backing up my suspician that the separate discs thing was a BAD IDEA.

Looking forward to the Big Boi though.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

the "My Favorite Things" thing is really lame, but the liner notes photos on the Dre side are awesome.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I fear that whoever said that the Dre songs are underwritten may be OTM

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"A Life in the Day of Benjamin Andre (Incomplete)" makes me wish he would rap more on the rest of the record.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm actually very curious as to who it was what played the piano & soprano sax in "My Favorite Things". The beat isn't exactly creative or playful as far as d-n-b goes (which I'm guessing is where the dislike of that track comes from), but the piano & soprano playing in that are really pretty fucking nice, especially for being jazz-players-guesting-on-a-hip-hop album, which doesn't always work out quite so well.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm pretty astonished by the gushing reviews this is getting so far. I haven't seen anyone even suggest that it's anything less than brilliant.

"Underwritten" maybe... but I think I prefer "half-baked"

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I'm really disappointed so far, but since I just got it this morning and its 39 freaking tracks, I'm gonna give it more time.

mid-way through listen #2 there's clearly nothing here on par with "Ms. Jackson" or "B.O.B."

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 19:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hey Ya", "She Lives In My Lap", "Roses", "She's Alive", "The Way you Move", "Tomb Of The Boom"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone like "Prototype"? That's prob. my favortite, surprisingly. I still say the second half of the Dre disc is pretty poor tho'. Enjoying the Big Boi disc a lot more.

― Michael B, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm still waiting for Mr. Perry's assessment of Andre's singing.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

"Prototype" is great.

I gotta say...I've listened to about two-thirds of Boi's disc, and the first half of Dre's, which leaves me plenty of room to adjust my opinion downwards, but it's sounding pretty excellent to me. Dunno what ppl are complaining about. Admittedly, the first track or two on Dre's disc ain't so hot, and I haven't got to the "My Favorite Things" bit yet...

― M Specktor (M Specktor), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I really, really dig Andre's voice. It's very idiosyncratic and engaging.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, all of a sudden technique becomes irrelevant? How convenient!

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Pitchfork in voice of moderation shocka!

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/o/outkast/speakerboxxx-the-love-below.shtml

― Simon H., Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Technique is not the only thing I look for in voices, or did you completely miss the fact that THE CURE is probably my favorite band of all time?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

And anyway, Andre does have a technique; it's a lazy drawl, blues-influenced sound that just curls around the tunes like a randy tomcat.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I did miss that, fortunately.

I'm just playing. I don't know how you can be so repulsed by Pharrell/JT and enjoy that tuneless wailing on She's Alive tho.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Tuneless"?????

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Did I say tuneless? I must have meant tone-deaf. I mean, talk about yer falsetto...

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 21:13 (twenty-two years ago)

He isn't out of tune, though!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Dan just met Bizarro Dan here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

He isn't out of tune, though!

I'll take your word for it.

― Ben Williams, Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

if that pitchfork review is right, what would the tracklist of the single disc best-of this record be?

― just curious (actual), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Pitchfork in not-very-good-at-writing-a-record-review-at-all non-shocka.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked the review just fine -- actually it was funnier and better than most glossy reviews.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:15 (twenty-two years ago)

the campus-centric travelogue thru atlanta was unwittingly far more suited to outkast than a more honest one would have been.â—Š

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh yeah, I forgot. They're not "real hip-hop."

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a bit worried about subbing my review! (i'm also worried matos won't publish it.)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

no ben -- they're just campusish!

(although ceasing cultural identification vis a vis hip-hop tropes [gangsta AND otherwise], musical identification vis a vis "hip-hop beats" [encompassing a range from breakbeats on out] and even genre identification via y'know not rapping much anymore does call into question why one would bother to argue about "hip-hop" -- its sort of like trying to argue that Pink's holding up the flag for real r&b songstresses or whatever)Ã¼

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

That's just way too deep for me, man.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate to say it for fear of the backlash, but I honestly think The Love Below plays better as a full-length than Speakerboxx, which has more of a collection-of-bad-as-fuck-singles sound to it.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, where would you rank The Love Below in comparison to the following:

The Rainbow Children
Electric Circus
Neither Fish Nor Flesh

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

by the end of the year I think ILM is going to produce a detailed spectrum of all music ever made as it compares to The Love Below.

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a serious question!

And I forgot

The Headphone Masterpiece

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

botf: andre should've named the album "i'm horny"
HotelOpera: The Love Below MY PANTS
botf: andre should've named the album "where are my panties"
botf: HAHAHAH
botf: SPEAKERBOXXX/WHERE ARE MY PANTIES

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:00 (twenty-two years ago)

ilx 2023 thread: "do we really need an sb/tlb canon?"

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, god forbid we should compare anything! That would be oppressive.

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm with Dan. This album is good, not bad. Encouraging, not disappointing. Aquemini, not Stankonia. (oops, did that slip out?)

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

(damned thinking-Stankonia-tepid opinions destroying my opinion cred every time.)

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

re: pfork review - just seeing pfork big up east point (harris st. elementary is der house!) as the cultural fountainhead (instead of indiecenters lil five points (it's lil five points that's getting gentrified - not five points) and cabbagetown) is such a triumph that I can overlook higgidy diggity nitpicks with the review. outkast aren't the first act to get good reviews based on starpower and goodwill (cf. Pop, Up), although it is depressing and nonsurprising adn depressingly nonsurprising to see rockcrit's using this record to bash hip-hop ("unlike most rap music, this is actual art"), and I'm very interested in seeing how this thing plays out in the market place (I do know that the atl hip-hop stations aren't all over this they way they were all over stankonia and aquemini). It also depresses me (well, not depresses, annoys) that this thing's gonna get more critluv than chicken and beer (and I will be Shocked and Disappointed if chicken and beer isn't better than speakerboxx/the love below).

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 05:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The album is outstanding. Only a true muzic-head would fully understand Dre's cd. Dre is truely a musician in all aspects and shouldnt be critized for trying something different. And I think its about time that we as a black community support eachother we one of decides to do something out of the ordinary. I really dont think that they did the double disc cd as a ploy to see which one is better of the two. They are the Yin and the Yang to eachother I think personally. There is a lot of other things to rap about instead of drugs pucci and "the man". I think both albums are pretty damn good.

― Sweetthang, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Got in on the basis of Tate's review; Speakerboxx is so unbearable that I can't even imagine putting on The Love Below.

― Mary (Mary), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Love Below > Speakerboxxx

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Friday, 26 September 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I am profoundly grateful that I am wired such that "Ghettomusik" is one of the 500 best songs ever recorded.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Fucking hell, are you serious? I mean I was going to get this thing anyway, but that seems like a big/cool call

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I am serious. That track kicks my ass every which way but loose, largely for the reasons that people are picking on it for (the abrupt style shift into mellow jazz in the middle being the main culprit).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't had a chance to really listen through Love Below more than once because I've been playing Speakerboxxx so much. C'mon, Ghetto Musick, Bowtie, Rooster, Flip Flop Rock, Bust all hit so hard.

I guess I expected something sprawling and mediocre, so I'll gladly take anything great that comes along (and there's plenty of it).

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Excellent, Dan (and Jordan). I can't wait to get this.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, that I wasn't sure about that switch in Ghetto Musick at first but now I love it. I also love the three song horn set in the middle of the album, there are some really nice lines in there.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

When the synth bass morphs into those skrawnchy leaping synth leads in "Dracula's Wedding" and Kelis starts singing, the undead from across all of Middle Earth get throbbing zombie erections.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually like Andre's My Favorite Things pretty well. The beat is pretty static but it works...even though the melody is repeated too often in the same way and could have been stated a lot hipper, the piano player is fucking good, he really makes that track work.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Ghettomusick is messed up, and not in a good way, from where i'm standing. i mean, i'm all about creative song structures, but there's like 2 choruses and 2 bridges before it gets to the first verse, it kills any momentum it might have. if they release it as a single, it might be the first radio edit that cuts out all the repetitive parts at the beginning instead of the endof the song.

arghhh, i don't know why I'm forcing myself to get all the way through The Love Below a 2nd time right now.

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

The guitars on Flip Flop Rock sound exactly like the kind of thing Tom Morello was doing a lot of on Battle for Los Angeles.

Speakerboxxx makes me want to get the Killer Mike record.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Al, what are you talking about?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

jordan go get it
monster is fascinating
in a sick weird way

and yeah love below/
speakerboxxx is a big mess.
that's why I like it.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm talking about how Big Boi doesn't start rapping until 1 min 40 sec., Dan. although it's starting to grow on me now that I'm not waiting for the rapping to start through that whole beginning. and I just responded to a friend's IM with "feelin' good, feelin' great, feelin' great, feelin' good, how are you?"

― Al (sitcom), Friday, 26 September 2003 13:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, I guess I just listen to that track with my rave ears, which automatically turns the first two minutes of any song into ramp-up time for DJs to mix with.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 26 September 2003 14:25 (twenty-two years ago)

"Ghettomusick"'s stop/start thing reminds me a lot of "Chop Suey!", but the harmonies & synths remind me a lot of "Atomic Dog". What a fucking gnarly awesome song.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 26 September 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I just got a promo of this thing last night, and I'm shocked to announce that despite all my previous cynicism I think this is the best work they've ever done. I enjoy both albums more than Stankonia (though none of the songs top "B.O.B." as best Outkast song ever). I'm surprised that both albums open with their most difficult numbers ("Love Hater" and "Ghettomuzik" - Dan Perry to the contrary), but after those the albums are incredibly solid, fun and immediately affecting. Arguably Dre's songs are a bit overlong but it really doesn't bother me much at all. Now that I've heard the albums, I'm surprised by all the disappointment on this thread. The albums feel way more show-not-tell than Stankonia did as a whole.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

It may have helped that I came to this album with total skepticism, rather than assuming I was about to hear the second coming. Even after enjoying Speakerboxx I was expecting Love Below to suck. It didn't. I can't really say which album is better yet. Speakerboxx felt more consitent but "Prototype" thru "Behold A Lady" completely kicked my ass. Right now I think this album is behind the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Electric Six on my fave albums of the year.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and anybody who writes an "unlike rap, this is art" review should be slapped. The Love Below is not a humorless album and I'd hate to see reviews pretend its totally fucking serious (I disagree with Jess's Mr. Bungle comparison because while it's put-on like Bungle there feels like there's more genuine emotion behind it. I really dig that contradiction - see "She's Alive"). And the "My Favorite Things" track struck me as amusing as hell.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

two things I learned from the EW Pink-Outkast-Dave Matthews roundtable I glanced at checking out at the grocery store today

1) according to Andre: Tom Hanks should most definitely play Dave Matthews in the movie

2) Andre was listening to the Ramones and the Buzzcocks when he wrote "Hey Ya"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think The Love Below would've worked so well if it had taken itself too seriously (which it thankfully doesn't).

I think, if they manage to pull this off, "The Rooster" and "War" are gonna be, um, to borrow a bluegrass term, 'barnburners'.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 26 September 2003 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

the chorus to "Roses," sweet lord, the chorus to "Roses." It will undoubtedly make many a day.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 26 September 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

putting myself out there, a review: http://www.music-critic.com/urban/outkast_speakerboxxxlovebelow.htm

feel free to feed back, tell me I'm full of shit, etc.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Saturday, 27 September 2003 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

After scanning 1st 3d of this thread, I ffwdd thru Speakerbox and listened to the first half of Love Below. Former was pretty terrible by which I mean at least less compelling than the middling/bad songs on Stankonia, tho Miccio's post convinces me to try again there. As usual, I don't pay much attn to the lyrics first few times around. Latter was at least pleasant, if not charming (in the good sense). Warm. And what are people talking about with the first 3 songs? They're fine. But you do get the feeling that Dre is going to give all of 70-something% but no more. Preliminarily I could live without it. I'd rather see him do what he really wants.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 27 September 2003 05:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Got it this morning. Enjoying Speakerboxxx a gratifying amount. Not tried Love Below yet.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 29 September 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm listening to one from Speakerboxx then one from Love Below in turn - it's all FUCKING AMAZINGLY BRILLIANT ALBUM OF THE YEAR EVEN BETTER THAN KISH KASH AND X-FACTOR so far but then again the sun is shining on a gorgeous day out there, life's picking up for me and things are going okay...but still...this is seriously fucking cool and i don't even want to think about what they're saying and why at the moment or maybe ever because this is so enjoyable

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 29 September 2003 11:56 (twenty-two years ago)

words like 'unbearable' and 'terrible' make no sense on this thread, disappointing maybe, like it's disappointing that i still haven't listened to any of the previous Outkast albums in full and maybe that's why i love this one so much on first listen but whatever

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 29 September 2003 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Having now spent the better portion of a week playing the thing constantly--both halves--I have to say it's great, in my estimation. And the truth is, erm...it's remarkably consistent. Even (I might go so far as to say 'especially.' Maybe...) 'The Love Below.' Not perfect, surely, but there are shockingly few wack moments on the either disc, given how much of it there is in sum. Not sure I get the hate for it...

― M Specktor (M Specktor), Monday, 29 September 2003 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm gonna have to listen to all the previous ones but even after that i don't expect my view to change that this is the greatest record of the decade

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 29 September 2003 14:12 (twenty-two years ago)

The first listen through Love Below was dire, but now on two listens, they're both starting to grow on me. No one yet has really mentioned "Church", which I think is phenomenal! There's like five really long mellow songs on Love Below which are all decent, but having all of them one on disc is a mistake. Rather than cut tracks to make a single, I think I would like their songs to be interchanged, which would be a bit like the White Album (hmm, I may just do that myself).

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Monday, 29 September 2003 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

uh, "single" = single disc album

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Monday, 29 September 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

faves so far:

Reset
Dracula's Wedding
Church
Unhappy
War
Happy Valentine's Day
She Lives In My Lap
Roses (we really are talking about outprincing Prince at points)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 29 September 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

My favs right now = Ghettomusick, Bowtie, The Way You Move, The Rooster (the horns in this KILL), War, Church, Reset (Cee-Lo's verse is great on this), Tomb of the Boom, Last Call, Knowing ("from here on out, it only get's rougher!"), Love Hater, Happy Valentine's Day, Spread, Prototype, She Lives in My Lap, Pink & Blue, Hey Ya!, Roses, Dracula's Wedding, Behold a Lady, Vibrate

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 29 September 2003 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh GOD 'Hey Ya' ruled our ENTIRE DAY

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 6 October 2003 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I really love "Church", but seriously it's a blue mohawk away from being '89 Fishbone.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 6 October 2003 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

The big difference being that for some reason I like Outkast and dislike Fishbone (no sarcasm here - Fishbone should be a band I like but I don't).

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Monday, 6 October 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmmm.... I think I'm with Jess to an extent on this one - there are some great moments on here (Unhappy, War, Flip Flop Rock, Ghettomusick, Dracula's Wedding in particular), but a lot of utterly awful moments on there.

Church is one of the most irritating records I've heard in ages - I can't listen to it without thinking of Sesame Street or the music from MarioKart, and that's not what I want from a rap record. I don't like Roses much either, but mostly because that chorus is so godawful (actually, I reckon the naff choruses are the album's downfall).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 6 October 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the record okay, but "Good Day, Good Sir"= not just the most annoying skit ever, but possibly the single most annoying THING ever created.

― adaml (adaml), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i find nothing on this album that annoying or awful as such, just one or two mild troughs among the G.L.O.R.I.O.U.S. peaks - what IS the matter with you love haters?? wutcha want?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Clearly this album wasn't what a lot of people were expecting (if it had been, many of the most vocal critics would have loved it).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

no dan sadly it was EXACTLY what i expected and therein lies the problem.

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

If we are to believe what was said by many of the critics upthread, this album disappointed because it was what they expected, but I honestly don't see how anyone could have expected this thing (by "this thing" I mean the way the record(s) actually sound(s) and not the dominant "oh my God Andre only raps thrice on his record and plays guitar and stuff, wtf?" theme I've noticed to most folks reactions).

And I don't know where else to say this, so I'll say it here: the best (ie "my current favorite") song on Speakerboxx is "Knowing", which also happens to be the only track solely produced by Big Boi. I think he should do WAY more production work, cuz that groove is FLAWLESS.

(wow what a great x-post)

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"this music can go anyway" = an expectation

(how many times can we dance this particular dance?)

― gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't mean to bring this back up J355! It was Dan!

By this point nothing you or anyone can say can convince me that this album isn't phenomenal anyway, so nya. *sticks out tongue*

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay Jess, so your position is that you really wanted to like the album but was afraid it would be an album of Big Boi rapping and and an album of Andre being weird? Is that a fair description of your expectations? That isn't the way you were coming across earlier; you were giving me the distinct impression that you were expecting to like the album before you actually heard it. This is what I'm trying to get at when I say that the album wasn't what you were expecting, but if you were expecting to hate it from the get-go, then yeah you got what you were expecting.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

i expected to like the album but perhaps not love. i expected grandiose - pompous even - self indulgent stylings and sophisticated - perhaps even innovative - production, cool lyrics and vocals (the female harmonies on some the songs e.g. Reset and Happy Valentine's Day are just beautiful), all in keeping with the Outkast most people know and love, and I was totally cool and up for all of that. Maybe it doesn't do all those things ENOUGH for some people but that's a moon on a stick scenario right there. I love this 'thing' (it doesn't really quite do it justice to refer to it as an 'album'), but I CAN imagine my reaction to their next work matching Jess' with this one cos I'm just one of those goons that didn't really bother with Stankonia despite loving what I heard (that's me with critically acclaimed albums 95% oif the time you see). also i haven't actually listened to it much at all in the last seven days as I am afraid of burnout, but it's in my head all day everyday long and this is great.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

In regards to supposed self-indulgence-ness of The Love Below: I'm not sure if this makes sense, but I actually think this is LESS self-indulgent than many things he's written before, as a great many of the songs are from other POVs than 'Andre 3000' ("Happy Valentine's Day" = Cupid the matchmaker, "Dracula's Wedding" = surprised vampire, "She's Alive" = son of single mother giving respects, etc.), almost as though he's stepping outside of himself for the sake of the songs *gasp*.

Of course I guess it could be argued that he's possibly just indulging in different parts of his own persona, but I dunno, it seems like Andre was more interested in making these songs as distinctly singular to their own particular vibes than making a "wow look at Andre be crazy!" type of thing.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I just listened to this last night and found it pretty wanky, pretty dull, and pretty damn wasteful.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

compared to what?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i had a dream last night that i floated back to america for a few days and was most excited because i could pick up the new outkast without spending an arm and a leg. sadly it was only a dream.

― amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

check out the onion's sidebar today

― s1utsky (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 October 2003 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I guess I'm a little bit late for the party here, but I finally got this yesterday, and I have to say - I can't understand the level of vitriol that was directed on this thread towards The Love Below. I see myself spinning that particular CD many, many times in the near future. Speakerboxxx, OTOH, excepting a few tracks (mainly the Andre productions), didn't do much for me on first listen - partly at least because I can't seem to get with Big Boi's lyrics. (And whoever said that the Andre disc is weak lyrically has some 'splainin to do.) But still, $$$ well spent.

― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 19 October 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"hey ya"'s the best frank black since teenager of the year (ie. good but not good enough for undeniably great)

This is funny. "Hey Ya" doesn't really sound much of anything like Frank Black. But prove me wrong, and tell me the song that "Hey Ya" sounds like. Or is everything with guitars automatically indie?

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 20 October 2003 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"prototype" deserves way more love!

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 20 October 2003 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"hey ya"'s the best frank black since teenager of the year (ie. good but not good enough for undeniably great)

This is funny. "Hey Ya" doesn't really sound much of anything like Frank Black.

The trick is to hear this on an indie rock/pop station. I'd never have agreed with the above, if I hadn't experienced this. That said, it's the best spastic funkadelique lurve song I've heard in ages.

― nathalie (nathalie), Monday, 20 October 2003 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

the best thing about 'Prototype' is those monolithic pads at the end

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 20 October 2003 10:37 (twenty-two years ago)

totally. and the descending bass chord bits!

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 20 October 2003 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The trick is to hear this on an indie rock/pop station. I'd never have agreed with the above, if I hadn't experienced this

I'm not denying that it could cross over to indie rock radio - it's certainly melodic and propulsive enough (plus it does have guitars which, as we ILMers know, practically guarantees it a place in the cold and clammy hearts of corny indie fuxx everywhere) - but honestly, if Frank Black ever made a song that sounds like "Hey Ya", I'd stop saying he's washed up!

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 20 October 2003 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

FYI: "Hey Ya" cracked AT40 this week.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Indie rock radio"? Huh?

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

"I do know that the atl hip-hop stations aren't all over this they way they were all over stankonia and aquemini"

"Hey Ya" was number one on Hot 107.9 last week, but I dunno if that was just an anomaly or what.

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

"Indie rock radio"? Huh?

I think I meant alternative rock radio - there's probably not much in the way of indie rock radio out there, excepting some college stations.

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 20 October 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone else notice that the differences between the two CDs start to blur after awhile? Where you start noting the non-hip-hop elements in Speakerboxx and the hip-hop in The Love Below? I was hopping around between both albums (I have them on blank tapes currently) and didn't feel any sharp flow-shift pains at all. I'm not saying there aren't differences but it made me realize they could TOTALLY make another album together if they really wanted to. It's not like they're on separate planets. I still can't decide which album I like more, which is good in the sense that I'll be fine voting for the whole thing in Pazz & Jop.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 20 October 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh i think Big Boi went out on a limb in places but not as much as Andre. i could just take 5 or 6 tracks from each side and that may well be a phenomenal album in itself.

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 20 October 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hey Ya"'s melody definitely has a Frank Black feel to it. I really can only stand it for the time signature, though, otherwise I can take it or leave it.

I don't say things like this often, for what it's worth, but "Roses" is really the worst song I have ever heard.

― Al (sitcom), Monday, 20 October 2003 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

wtf? Your take on "Roses" smells like boo boo.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Al, I'll grant you that the melody of "Hey Ya" is reminiscent of Black's work, at least for the first few bars - it would be interesting to actually break it down and figure out why that is, but I fear that I lack the music-theory chops to pull it off - maybe it's just the chords. But in terms of production, sonics, rhythmic feel, vocals, etc. - there really is no comparison. I can't imagine Black writing a song like it in a hundred years.

"Roses" the worst song ever? I find that hard to believe.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

It's all about the acoustic guitar and the shrill vocal, yo.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't say shrill, but high-pitched with a bit of a nasal edge, yes. That's surely part of it. But the melody itself, and the way it goes with the chords seems familiar. Does anyone happen to know the chords to "Hey Ya"?

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

The chords for the verses: G-C-D-E (according to this helpful page). They do remind me of the Pixies (and Black) in their off-kilter simplicity. That C-D-E at the end is odd, but somehow it works. It seems that Andre 3000 shares Black's erstwhile gift for being able to fit a catchy melody to what might appear to be a random assortment of chords.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Not to mention the beat structure...if I remember correctly it's a 6 bar form with the 4th bar being 2/4, yes? Not like you'd have to notice unless you wanted to though, which is the point.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, the beat structure is the real connection. Frank Black uses that one often.

― Vinnie (vprabhu), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

That's a good point. I'll have to listen for that next time. Which chord does the 2/4 bar correspond to? Also, how would you see that chord progression: is it I-IV-V-VI? Or I-IV-V-V*, where V* is some sort of augmented V chord?

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

The D chord (V) is the 2/4 bar. I'd see that progression as I-IV-V-VI.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The 2/4 bar is the D. If those chords are right, in beats, it's G (x 4), C (x 8), D (x 2), E (x 8)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

The comments about Frank Black make me want to hear "Headache" RIGHT NOW.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 15:40 (twenty-two years ago)

four weeks pass...

Dadada!

It is now official: The first hip-hop album Geir has really liked! :-)

Heard a couple tracks, decided to check it out closer, and I really like it. It may even appear on my 2003 Top 10 - time will show.

Anyway, what is it about this album that makes me like it better than all other rap albums?

First and foremost, the melody thing. There are lots of melodic bits here, and, even more important, they are actually composed by the group themselves rather than nicked from elsewhere. There are indeed several tracks that hardly contain any rap at all

Another thing is I like how they are ambitious, almost in a prog way. Like several of the other important double albums in popular music history, "Speakerboxx"/"The Love Below" is kind of a journey through lots of different genres and styles, and not only soul/R&B/funk/jazz (although I can hear a lot of jazz and 80s smooth soul in particular here), but also less obvious sources such as classical music, pop, rock and drum'n'bass.

One thing that is also important (but not unique within the hip-hop genre in the case of this album)is the great production. Lots of great synth sounds, a lot of it remiscent of 80s synthpop at its best.

Also, a lot of the album is clearly remiscent of Prince, an artist that I really like.

Put together, these things make this a good album, yes, possibly even a great one.

I guess several rap purists will hate the album for the same reasons btw. From their purist criteria, I believe this album is a lot "whiter" than anything Eminem, Beastie Boys nor Vanilla Ice have ever come up with.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Sieg heil.

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow Sarah, how clever!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

What, you thought I was kidding?

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

What, so if you were serious that suddenly makes your response original and insightful?

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Original and insightful, unlike 99% of your posts I've ever seen?

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:07 (twenty-two years ago)

PHEAR MY MIGHTY PHALLUS etc.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, don't let this happen! I love you both! Yoooooouuuuuu're teeeeaaaariiiiiing meee apaaaaaaaaaaart!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder how much Cee-Lo/Goodie Mob the Hongroed One has heard?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Is anybody else getting a really annoying login screen popping up every time they open this thread?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

― Sarah Pedal (call mr. lee), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Woah, an exploding rocket looks just like a cock! Tee hee hee!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Not much, Nickalicous. Was "I Wish" by Cee-Lo?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, what's the story with the login screen?

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Has been there from the start apparently, as the first response to the original thread says "username?"

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

It is now official: The first hip-hop album Geir has really liked! :-)

I rest my case.

;o)

― Ben Williams, Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha no that was Skee-Lo! I can see the confusion.

If you feel like it and can find it, I suggest a listen to Cee-Lo's song "Gettin' Grown" might please your ears a wee bit.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, this is fake Geir, right? Because the idea of "Speakerboxxx/The Love Below" being the record that Miccio, Nickalicious, Dan and Geir can agree on only makes it even greater!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 19 November 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

two months pass...

Alright, I admit that some of the songs on the record the love below are differen't. But at least be happy that someone is going out on a limb and creating something different then just the same old hip hop.

― Fan, Friday, 6 February 2004 05:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i hate this album.
for 2 reasons
1. the love below is way too long for it's own good.
2. big boi sucks

― Dude (The Yellow Dart), Friday, 6 February 2004 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

Why my purpose on the surface of this earth is. Plan it, standards, trust and the purpose. Campaign in vein for the same lame fame, people obtain, you ought to be detained. By the hip hop sheriff, locked up no possibility......of getting out cause the shit you make is killing me. and my ears, and my peers I hear the end is near, no fear, we disappear, then reappear again in a fresh new light. I hope its peaceful and cloudy cause if its not we gotta fight like, fight like

GENIOUS! who else comes up with that material???? and you people are dissin outkast? big boi? are u retarded? eh.....

― Toad, Saturday, 20 March 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

OutKast are boner.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Saturday, 20 March 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

did anybody catch the interview with tara mckelvey on fresh air?

she has a new book called "monstering: inside america's policy of secret interrogation and torture in the war on terror" (phew!)

she was talking about abu ghraib and lynndie england and gang ... apparently the #1 recreational-time activity at the prison was these recreational robotripping orgies. and apparently the popular soundtrack was outkast's last few albums. how about that?

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

what no DJ Skrew available in Iraq?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 20:50 (eighteen years ago)

i like to think that the soundtrack to the infamous "lynndie" photo was "i like the way you move"

― moonship journey to baja, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

doo dee doo

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

You know it was to "Rosa Parks".

― HI DERE, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

I assume the robo-tripping and Outkast is among the guards, not the prisoners, yeah?

― The Reverend, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 01:34 (eighteen years ago)

god that'd be a whole other level of psychic scarring

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 01:39 (eighteen years ago)

i saw andre walkin around in front of my building a little bit ago to the vegan place. he was dressed like tom sawyer.

― chaki, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 01:50 (eighteen years ago)

did you clown him like 3-6 in the international players anthem vid

― deej, Wednesday, 13 June 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

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