Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

And a few of those albums are pretty damn good.

I have no use whatsofuckingever for Chris Ott or Pitchfork (and I actually think "I Feel You"'s great Bad Company imitation is one of the best things Depeche Mode ever did, and I like a couple songs by the Dambuilders, too) but believe me: The items listed above are hardly "factual innacuracies." They're matters of opinion, okay??

C'mon man, if you are struggling to fill it with real stuff, why not farm it out? or use real store stats and give a second store some publicity and yourself some basis in fact.

scott

I still maintain it's a good idea if he ever tried to root it in fact.

OK, I should have chosen my words more carefully. "Only skimmed the article but noted a couple of very debatable opinions." But honestly, calling the KLF grebo makes about as much sense to me as calling Negativeland twee pop.

And my only interest is to "rile" readers? Do me a favor and read some of my reviews, rather than just the last two admittedly inflammatory features. I've gotten behind loads of records. And hate me all you want, guys-- I don't start threads about anything you've written.

and this proves what, exactly?

Now are you riled? SUCKAZ SHOCKA!!!

also, Ott, you're not exactly the person to be calling other people out on cynicism, either.

Pick it off, maaaannnnn.

So hold on... you're calling other people arrogant?

Glad I'm not one of those hundreds of people writing to you!

I am so quoting you next time i mount a britney spears defense -- "She gets thousands of letters from kids WAY less cynical than YOU! Like she gives a damn what you think you insignificant punk.""

I check Pitchfork (and Stylus) in the morning, glance at what's being reviewed and maybe once a week read part of one of them. Am I getting counted in that readership? Do I get counted 20 times a month, since I check weekday mornings?

hey, everyone! this thread's title has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy! it's not arrogance, it's a fact!

I think this should be your sig file.

(ha xpost)

Hey Ott, I just invited you to be my friendster. HOOOOTTTTTT!

This is just...fuck.

....but the Amps! Pacer is awesome. And I was sort of wondering where the Spin Doctors and Gin Blossoms were.

Look, man, I'm no stranger to bile-ridden rants, and I'm not decrying your right to write them. I'd just suggest that you do a bit more homework before you submit them. Otherwise, your opinions come off like damp, meaningless flatulence.

As opposed to Pitchfork? Jesus Christ, do Pitchfork writers confuse their e-zine with, I dunno, a real publication?

(Go ahead with that "jealous rock writer" comment - the only piece of music criticism I wrote was a one-paragraph blurb on Californication.)

this is poetry.

though this is too:

Otherwise, your opinions come off like damp, meaningless flatulence.

"The Bible says speak the truth," he says. "It doesn't say anything about you having to like what I say."

Barry Bonds, 2003

I come back after a few hours later and the thread is suddenly awesome. I've read the reviews and I don't really remember them, but I remember this stuff.

1 - way too much copy, way too many page links. This piece cries for sarcasm in one sentence blurbs. This will not only make it more lively and entertaining, but less reliant on actual facts. And that's fine. (and as an aside, I'd say Pitchfork's biggest downfall is that there are too many damn words in every review; it's not the quantity dude, it's the quality.)

2 - keep the "homoerotic" comments to whatever it is you do with your boys when the town pump is being serviced. Then again, it's that kind of comment that makes Pitchfork such an easy target. So, I guess you'll keep that up.

3 - don't pick a fight with Matos. Or iLx. Why?

You.
Will.
Always.
Lose.

P.S. Bragging about having more pageviews than SPIN is not equitable to readership. Because if it is, you'd better start fucking paying your writers.

"we totally move into blender territory!"

(nb editors who may hire me i like certain parts of spin and blender fine, but the gag's too perfect)

http://www.bondscentral.com/images/bonds7.jpg

I decided to mosy on down to pitchforkmedia.com and look at the masthead. Chris Ott isn't listed as, oh, an advertising salesman, an executive of some sort or even an editor.

Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?

Do I have to register now to view the PFMS threads, or do I just have the wrong URL? Because you're right, that's where the most entertaining stuff is, but I haven't been able to check it out for the last week or so.

for example:
when he blunders that jesus jones' "right here, right now" (which was released 1990 or 1991 depending on what side of the pond you were on) was "Another mid-90s one-hit wonder"* it is a forgivable error. it's when he follows with "we're only now running into younger fans that haven't heard", the condescending tone of elevated plurality is self-incriminating; the reader instantly recognizes just how transparent chris' stance is... he IS that "younger fan" he's bemoaning.

*as of 8:05pmPST, 09/23/03

1. The Stems, At First Sight
Ghastly post-INXS ska-funk with a brilliant Big Star cover stuck up front. Talk about hedging your bets.

Not really. It's. Just. Boring.

I have a hard time believing that Pitchfork's target market would have the attention span to read through an article like this.

no less their critics!

Furthermore, if you think your advertising space is more valuable than SPIN's, then you are a total fucking moron. Do not go bragging to me about New Line Cinema or how you guys got that deal--I've experienced more advertising sales and know more about that business than you will ever imagine. I know exactly, to the fucking letter, how that game is played. So if YOU are always getting things right, then start explaining right now how all the studios are lining up to advertise on Pitchfork before they run anything in SPIN. Oh wait, they're not doing that.

WORD!

But I love him for his talent, idiosyncracy and art. Seriously.

i wish brent Diwhatshisface posted on ilm. he's funny!

he'll make Scott's legs shake! Scott makes him go crazy!

And then, convince me that you have shitloads of advertisers lined up because you can deliver more effectively and better than SPIN.

And then, start bragging about how much you charge for ads.

And then start showing me all the auto ads you guys run and how much that industry loves working with you. Same for cigarettes.

Bitch, the last thing on earth I want to do is defend a marginally interesting read like SPIN--hell, I'll give you that your editorial is more compelling than theirs--but you make it easy.

You mean your best retort isn't "HAHA U R FAT"?

Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.

I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?

Let's try again:
"Spin and RS have a combined circulation of ~1.75mln.

I'd like to see numbers supporting the contention that Pitchfork "dwarfs" them. What does dwarf mean? 100% more? 200%? Are you going claim, with a straight face, that Pitchfork has 3.5mln readers?"

And maybe we can go back to the advertising thing:

"Did all two-dozen Pitchfork writers take part in the New Line pitch, or are you just bragging (about an ad from New Line - how low is that) about something you had nothing to do with?"

But I can infer from your post that these negotiations will bring Pitchfork annual advertising sales equitable to Rolling Stone and SPIN combined--you know, you indicating that that your readership is that large and therefore, just as or more valuable and all. The syndicate is going to love you for that. My only question is why go with a syndicate if you are so valuable on your own? Oh I know, all that is tied up in the negotiation details as well but either way if you can kill off SPIN and Rolling Stone it will more than makeup for the hubris that has rolled out of that IP address over the past few years.

:-(Ñ

ka-boom! Shame you guys flat out ignored my application. Wankers! I want in on the gravy train!

Let me shave first. I don't want to scratch you up.

(as are guys with beards in certain gay bars...)

thanks for not tanking mercury rev. that makes it hard to complain about anything else.
m.

ps "no sacred cows were sacrificed by the writing of this rock piece."

pss who really wants readership bigger than say... 10 people...? i evidentally don't. a football team would be too many people. the combined members of deerhoof and tful282 would put me over my limit.

psss seriously tho. bad jokes aside. a readership the size of rs+spin is going to require RADICALLY different content than covering the indie beat. you can't lie to yourselves. why be the next lame fucking industry mag? you might as well be the bmg/columbia house catalog.

not sure why Ott seems so angry. i cant quite tell who or what he is angry with. i am wary of saying this, because i fear being attacked by him, which seems a curios way of winning me over. i suspect that, as an occasional poster to a message board he seems to dislike, he has little regard for what i say, perhaps he shouldnt.

equally unsure about others anger towards Ott. there is some kind of history? it seems Ott is very scathing about ILM, i dont know if this is towards every poster, or whether that is conflation (ilm is guilty of this in regard to pitchfork though).

if Ott attacks me with the same vigour as he has some of the others here (whether in name or as 'ilx'), i dont know why i would respond in the same manner, as some here have. i am only responsible for my own words, i dont really need to do that, im not sure why some of you do

Ott is an average writer, he is ok i guess, obviously there are many better, but, you know, he likes what he does, and thats the main thing, and it doesnt really matter if he is bigger and more well known than someone like Reynolds or not, i dont think there is any need to attack Ott, i think he is best judged by his own words on this thread.

I think an ability to take negative criticism without self-aggrandizement or attack or petty retort shows your class, after all, i am curious as to what Ott would think if he got an email from a band he had criticized which outlined how they had sold more records than he had and had reached a wider audience and that that mattered more than the words of a webzine (which is the tack Ott has taken on this thread)

But, on the other hand, Ott has received many answers on this thread, and many people reading his article, so its a successful article, and i think Ott can be pleased that so many people have taken an interest in his writing, and that he has got so many people talking. and, as he says, emails from hundreds of people telling him he has made a difference in their lives.

i think Ott needs to have a little more confidence in his work, regardless of its quality, then perhaps he can avoid the prickly defensiveness and let his work speak for itself. if the views of ilm are irrelevant then there is no need to spend quite so much time defending your work, which should be good enough to stand by itself. if the views of ilm are relevant, then i'm not quite sure what you are getting, or aiming to get, from this thread, other than a critics throwdown, which is offputting to most people i would guess

and i still cant quite understand why people on both sides think there is some huge gulf between ilm and pitchfork, they seem very similar to me, especially now that ilm is predominantly american

Actually you didn't. Re-read your paragraph.

But let's stick to this one, then, as there's no wiggle room:
"We have more readers than SPIN, Mikey. Sit the fuck down."

Spin has a circulation of 500k+ by itself. Where are the numbers that show Pitchfork with equivalent numbers? Since I clicked on all the pages for your article to look at the album names, did I get counted as six "readers" by PFork-math?

And also, wasn't American Music Club's "Everclear" album on the top albums of the 90's list by pitchfork?

I'd like to think that the writers at SPIN at least have something better to do with their time then argue online at some silly message board.

Ah well. Oh hey, the ramones released another live album. weird. thanks pitchfork.

it seems that this kind of topic is mainly enjoyed by males, both on ilx and at large. is there an argument to be put forward that the kind of combative behaviour on this thread is offputting and counter-productive to many people? this kind of thread seems a strange legacy, that i am surprised people would want attached to them. or perhaps it doesnt matter?

or perhaps there isnt a competitive and combative locker room vibe to this thread? what do you all think? i am curious to learn from people about their own posts here, and if that is the kind of effect and impression they were aiming to get across.

wtf is wrong w/"homoeroticism" anyway?

There are whole piles of these records I have absolutely no knowledge of (presumably all linked to US college radio/TV spots) - Dada's 'puzzle', for example, I seriously doubt ever made it to Britain in any kind of quantity - so can't comment on the accuracy there, despite the strong feelings Chris clearly has for them.

Of the stuff I do know... erm... it's not that accurate. Alex points out the CSC one at the outset of this thread, and some other people have picked out other ones, but for me... if someone can show me the musical link between Bleach and Th' Faith Healers I'd be grateful (and surprised). Oh, and Grebo was an odd term that applied to the Fraggle bands that weren't Fraggle (coming as it did from PWEI's major Fraggle single) and was interchangeable with it for a while - but ultimately became music press shorthand for any Black Country outfit (even bands like The Hunters Club).

(Note for trivia fans - the dance that the people on stage with Mud on *that* performance of 'Tiger Feet' is called The Grebo)

My biggest gripe though is with myself. I'd read this thread before I read the column and Mr Ott has managed to build such a negative perception of him that it's hard to be positive about his writing. I'm going to try his linked 'So Much For The Afterglow' and give him another chance.

I think I need to search the site and try and find him saying something positive about anything, just for balance.

john who packs bags at my local grocery store has a 6th toenail

This is same question Ott asked himself when he started the piece. Trouble is, he didn't bother to find out before writing.

I checked out about 3/4 of that before I started getting bored.  Isn't Ott's own participation in a forum he decries as self-serving and masturbatory a little suspect?  Especially because he's writing about his own writing (yawn) and basically by the end just trading imprecations with other board dwellers...?  Way to build credibility, champ. And why does any musical discussion that reaches an impasse invariably devolve into guys calling each other homos?

So my criticism of this article is that not enough of it reads like that, there's not enough surprise or pleasure. Too much of it feels like the kind of pat opinions I'm prone to giving out in the pub when I've had one too many.

Sorry to be negative.

It's clearly not a consistent stance though - as I said earlier, I went looking for other reviews to see if you could say anything positive about anything. I found the 'Forgotten Mixtape' piece you wrote, in which you excuse a lot of what's on it because, well, it was 1988, wasn't it... although you do defend Phil Collins and Robert Palmer...

Is that why almost all of your favourable reviews are for greatest hits, or reissues, or by big artists - because you've already decided you like them? (Or most bizarrely, for the Pavement reissue, because they sound like a band you were in?)

IMHO you had done yourself no favours in the debate up to this point, and coming back in today in the manner you have isn't winning you any points.

I'm with Tim.

Chris, what's the point of spitting out old opinions? I'm being serious. For me, half of why I write has to do with discovery. What kind of pleasure do you get out of the kind of writing you do?

Well, if you'd read the post, you'd see that I was quoting someone else, not expressing my own opinion.. As far as I'm concerned, your credibility as a music journalist is measured by your knowledge of the material, and your ability to convey/contextualize/communicate based upon the facts regarding that material. I'm not entirely convinced that your grasp of the material is that well versed. Thus, what you have to say is moot.

nah.

that's pretty cool that pitchfork got free advertising on radio though.

maybe because "mid-90s" = "early-90s"?

- Ott refers repeatedly to certain acts as "signatures" (i.e a band that has been signed to a record label). I may be mistaken about this, but isn't the conventional term "signings" instead of "signatures"?

- Keith Morris of the Circle Jerks has been sporting dreadlocks since at least as far back as 1988 (the last time I saw the band live). Thus, this in no way renders his chosen hairstyle "recent".

- "TV II" by Ministry could hardly be considered "proto-grindcore", given that Napalm Death (inargualby the preeminent grindcore band) debuted in 1987, a good half a decade prior to the release of Psalm 69.

- Ned's Atomic Dustbin a "shoegaze" band? Love'em or hate'em, Jonn [sic] Penney and co. could never be accused of playing dreamy, ethereal pop, much less boasting a stage presence particularized by somnambulistic stasis. They were one of the most hyperkinetic live acts of the time (lots of rampant leaping about).

- I hate to differ with the estimable Chuck Eddy, but calling the KLF a "grebo" band is decidedly not simply a matter of opinion, but rather a sizable error. The KLF are as much a 'grebo' band as Celine Dion is a New Romantic. As much as it's a remarkably trivial distinction, 'Grebo' (a truncation of "greasy boy") referred very specifically to guitar-based bands like Gaye Bykers on Acid, Crazyhead and the hirsute, garage-clatter era of Pop Will Eat Itself. The KLF, meanwhile, were an entirely different breed of cat, concentrating more on chill-out ambient music and house (something PWEI wouldn't get involved in until later on). I'm not suggesting that one is greater than the other or that any of them are worth a damn, but if you're going to allude to them -- let alone lambast them in print -- at least get your facts straight.

http://www.bigcworld.com/

http://www.wens.com/airstaff/chris_ott.aspx

http://www.footbag.org/newmembers/profile?MemberID=40543

Aussie buddy Tom Morgan of Smudge wrote most of this record ['Come on Feel the Lemonheads'], and though I'm sure he made some nice money on the royalties for "Into Your Arms", he couldn't have been too happy that a druggie pinup boy reaped all the career-extending rewards.

anyone with either an internet connection or the album itself could tell you that (a) morgan shares co-writing credit with evan dando on 8 out of 15 songs and gets full credit on none, which is not the same thing as writing "most of the record" and (b) morgan had nothing to do with writing "into your arms," that was by another aussie, robyn st. clare, though maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike.

frankly, i don't think it's that huge a deal, but then again my name does happen to be...

it's true! we all look like shabby longhairs

also, i try not to miss any chance to enter tom morgan and robyn st. clare into the discussion.

I'm enjoying the article, not for any one album critique in particular but because it gives me a rather neat snapshot of a particular span of time, from when I first discovered, uh, alternative via MTV's 120 Minutes and bought a couple of the records named (a Lush album, actually just found my old cassette of "Happy Days" by Catherine Wheel, "Honey's Dead," "Psalm 69," Sugar, Belly, etc.).. and then saw nearly all the rest of them either show up at my college radio station & get trashed mercilessly by the staff, or already on the shelves of the radio station, never getting airplay.

Thing is I no longer fret so much about what kinda music is cool & actually rebought a couple of albums I'd ditched because, you know, I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles, and I wish I could find my tape of "Harmacy" because "Beauty of the Ride" is another all-time fave of mine.

And who sells "Last Splash"? It never gets old! Nobody sells that! :)

Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.

http://www.ad.nl/images/posh.jpg

I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles

Daria G just became Dan's and my closest friend.

Tim, yeah, as soon as I typed that I did think, 'oh, Fischerspooner.'

...which is still wrong.

I can't help but smile...

UPDATE: DAMN YOU JORDAN!!!! NOBODY steals my lame replies!

(or else i'll start thinking i'm losing my touch)

For what it's worth, Ott probably turned a couple kids onto Ministry. For that I can forgive most any flaws.

To ‘clear that up,’ in August, PFM had more unique hits than Spin has monthly subscribers. (But this, of course, does not mean that PFM has more readers because that stat doesn’t take into account Spin’s newsstand sales, comp list recipients, and that multiple ppl read each circulated copy of a magazine.)

The website I work for gets around 20 million unique hits a month. And it has around 6 million users a month. Big difference.

No, of course not. I'm not trying to manipulate these numbers to 'prove' PFM is bigger than Spin, just explaining in the face of this confusion and derision the root of that claim (and why, yes, it is flawed). (And I'm probably being defensive in the process, but I personally don't find anything healthy about these sorts of pissing contests. I'm more than happy to defend the site when I think it's being unfairly characterized, but floating misinformation as proof of PFM's size and 'superiority,' I don't find to be helpful to altering the site's image. That's not meant to be a slight toward Chris. We just approach things differently.)

For the record, I want it to be known he singlehandedly makes me ashamed to write for the site. Sure, Ryan's opinions can make me shudder, but Ryan is a great, funny guy. Ott's incapable of holding a civil conversation. He loves to insult you, then come back for a big hug of "aww, I'm just kidding. I just like to rile." He loves that word "rile."

His writing has such a boner to be British.

(and hitchens)

("who i want to meet: fewer people. interests: hating people, making enemies"), so i guess thats all quite sweet really, if a little try hard

hes a friend of maura too, is everyone in the world a friend of maura?

I gotta say, I think Ott's stuff withstands these criticisms for the most part. My sense has always been that he's insightful and I think the notion that he's contemptuous of his audience is a red herring. I think he's just deeply invested, and I don't mean in persona or cred or any of that, I mean in music. There's room for disagreement, but the premise of most of these criticisms seems to be that disagreement vitiates the exercise.

Hey, but that's just me. I realize the furor has died down but I'm surprised to see that it once was so ... furious.

I'm fairly objective, because ignorant of the rivalries on show here. And I have this to say: Chris Ott comes out on the high ground. The detractors, and there are so many, mainly come over as petty and secretly rather admiring. I think the Pitchfork piece is entertaining. And of course it's idiosyncratic!! Ott deserves his props and can take heart that such a long droopy arsed thread was pushed out in response to his piece. If it was that awful would anyone have bothered?

Chris Ott comes out on the high ground.

Chris Ott:

Cut the wolfing pal, I know plenty of people who know and revile your fat, frustrated ass. Let's stop pretending what gets said on the Internet is reality, we both box in the same class. The pseudo-intellectual coddling that goes on around this place is just homoerotic. When will you accept yourselves?

hmmm....

what crap.

One time I attempted to point out some factual errors and influences he apparently missed in one of his reviews, and he told me that i displayed "a complete lack of knowledge of popular music of the last 40 years". It was pricelessly funny. (Incidentally, in that same review, he went off on a fact-impaired rant about an entire genre and didn't actually say a damn thing about the music on the album in question.)

As for the feature in question: I'm solidly in the camp of "Why Bother?" La, la, la, let's make a list of things I don't like and share it with the whole world! I don't like things, la la la!

This whole "we have more readers than Spin" thing strikes me as pretty funny. As if that was the point. As if that was a measure of quality or success! Jessica Simpson sells more albums than Mecca Normal, does that reflect on the quality of the product?

Pitchfork is increasingly irrelevant, at least in the world of college radio that I inhabit. I read it only for the news. Every colleague I've talked to feels the same way.

that's ummm....kinda sad really. do you have voodoo dolls of your favorite ilm posters too?

you're the one adding comments to a thread that's been pretty much dead for a month, dude.

Reclaim? Who took them? Are they gonna get in trouble?

As a gay man, I don't have a problem with Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. But I do have a problem with the fact that he caused an ongoing national controversy with his anti-gay remarks, and is either too ignorant or mean-spirited to simply apologize.

http://www.progressive.org/mediaproject03/mpom103.html

(and from Technique, for that matter)

WHAT

funny how that taunt actually came to pass. also, for fun, see sales figures for series
1. The Smiths
2. The Kinks
3. Pink Floyd
4. Joy Division
5. Velvet Underground
6. The Beatles
7. Radiohead
8. Love
9. Neutral Milk Hotel
10. Neil Young
11. Rolling Stones
12. Dusty Springfield
13. Beach Boys
14. Jimi Hendrix
15. DJ Shadow
16. The Band
17. The Replacements
18. Led Zeppelin
19. Prince
20. David Bowie
21. Jeff Buckley
22. The Ramones
23. Bruce Springsteen
24. R.E.M.
25. Elvis Costello
26. Beastie Boys
27. Abba
28. James Brown
29. Jethro Tull
30. The Pixies
31. The MC5
32. Sly and the Family Stone
33. The Stone Roses

http://www.everydayteaching.com/Gallery/back2school/welcome.back.gif

...adding comments to a thread that's been pretty much dead for six years, dude.

― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, October 17, 2003 10:11 AM (6 years ago)

you people are high.

― twelve, Friday, October 10, 2003 3:41 PM

twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/367865860150407168

I WILL FUCKING KILL ALL OF YOU I WILL FUCKING SKIN YOU ALIVE IF IT MEANS ONE KID DOESN'T UNKNOWINGLY WRITHE UNDER YOUR BRO HIERARCHY

It's always a good day to remind a member of Grizzly Bear how unimportant they really are.

Oh No!
Page Not Found (404)
Unfortunately, we can't find the page you're looking for — believe us, we really tried.

If you think we've made an error, please contact us and describe the problem. We'll do our best to get it sorted out quickly.

Neither of the above posts made resurrecting this thread worthwhile.

What was that exchange about?

http://i40.tinypic.com/29okfae.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vLlpJc9mW0

Woah

Also where is ott pulling down 94k?

Not counting the value of the free trucker speed he apparently gets

Bragging about a 94k salary is like bragging about your 5.9-inch penis

angry dude

Wow dude's not changed at all.

what's the other famous ott boast? i forget it now

i was looking at this last night and just

doesn't ed droste come from family money anyways?

Damn how much do they pay you guys at spin?

Benny's

he's still going

this thread has some hot Ott action: Village Voice's F2K

a guy calling himself Shallow Rewards proclaiming "I make $94k base, with full bennies" like it's the most swagged out boast ever made is just too perfect.

https://twitter.com/shallowrewards/status/368961225700278274

Look it's 6 inches if I measure from the base of my Benny

every generation gets the lester bangs/lou reed it deserves

except this time it's the critic on stage ranting about toefuckers

"critic"?

fine, vlogger

actually, i stand by critic. it's 2013, vimeo counts.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/215323358/deep-sea-shallow-rewards/

i don't know what's more surprising, that this wealthy, charming individual couldn't convince people to pay for his book about Sugar Ray or that he couldn't pay for it himself

Hey a vimeo raconteur got $2k in pre-orders for an alt-rock Fear And Projected Self-Loathing, don't hate

all around the world statues crumble for me

and doing all that with a day job, three kids and an addiction to bennies? again, we have no reason to mock.

http://www.pitch.com/binary/1dcb/bennigans.jpg

Also where is ott pulling down 94k?

― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, August 18, 2013 9:08 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ott works in IT i'm pretty sure

disappointed droste didn't clap back, this had the makings of a classic beef

If love's what you got, don't startle a wry Ott

remember that

we gotta get this guy back on ilx

http://i.imgur.com/pPVao1e.png

ott was really pulling off dom passantino style turning retorts into ufc chokehold maneuvers

lol

"whaddya do this weekend?"

"took down a grizzly!"

how does droste come off the top rope at big perp but let ott just pummel him into submission? https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/276065588344942592

omg

"I am more middle class than you!"
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I1wg1DNHbNU/0.jpg

yeah why would droste take perpetua more seriously than ott whatta mystery

you think he knows who either of them are?

i think he knows who both of them are

i'm not up on indie rock twitter maybe i'm underestimating the degree of familiarity bw artists & critics but like i just assume no one outside of ilx is that in-tune

Droste is particularly up on the indie rock writing circle jerk

94k with benefits in IT, be still my heart.

perp's the music 'editor' at buzzfeed so i could see droste being familiar if only thru 'jesus christ look at this garbage' posts on facebook. he's probably old enough to remember when ott was a critic also.

in the northeast no less, i mean how did he swing that.

there's always a need for those guys who come around and look at your computer when it freezes and tell you to reinstall windows

http://research.gmu.edu/techtransfer/images/SidePhoto3.png

I want 94k and bennies :(

Actually I'm fortunate to have good bennies, I asked em right up front in the interview "Say buddy boy, before we make this official, I gotta know what kinda bennies you got around here.."

Then I says "listen chief I like my bennies like I like my women, big and a lot of them"

buddih

I imagine that after a wife and three kids and a mortgage and car insurance, 94k will probably go about as far as a kid freelancing blog posts for Noisey or band signed to Underwater Peoples

that's what the "novel" about Mark McGrath was gonna help cover

Can't put a price on bennies though

i believe the term is bodied?

https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/368972270808477696

how does droste come off the top rope at big perp but let ott just pummel him into submission?

you think droste's the loser in last night's exchange?

you can't be surprised that someone who thinks 'dom passantino style' is something to aspire to would think that

Ott is pig shit

This: When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness PRO TIP it's not 4 chords & a reverb pedal

And this: Are you asking to sleep with me I am not gay I actually transmitted the seed that birthed my three kids into a woman.

*barf*

wowwww didn't see those

When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness PRO TIP it's not 4 chords & a reverb pedal

isn't this a brad paisley lyric

this thread should be condemned.

you can't be surprised that someone who thinks 'dom passantino style' is something to aspire to would think that

<3 u balls

"actually"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZj4Cb-2bfE

also there is little that has made me more ashamed of music journalism as a "thing" than twitter

He started baiting Ed saying "I'm happier than you because I have a family" and Ed said "I'm gay" and Ott said "why are you suggesting that homosexuals cannot start families" and "are you coming on to me" plus "I fathered my children in a natural way" followed by "you're a Nazi". Ed is my bud and I'll always be on his side regardless but I thought he handled this idiotic motherfucker with an exceptional amount of dignity

when u have a family & they're asleep at the same time & u are still awake shit-talking indie rock musicians online u will understand happiness

if there's anything worse than an aggressive straight male music guy, it's an aggressive straight male music guy with a Twitter account who emulates dom

@edwarddroste
@shallowrewards go to bed. Your kids will be up soon.

i don't see why it matters that the whole family is asleep at the same time, seems like ott has some zingcraft problems to work out

http://www.tvworthwatching.com/blog/2008/12/11/shield-finale-shane-family-.jpg

just some sad angry man struggling with the fact that he's completely irrelevant. this is why i quit caring about silly things a long time ago.

you think droste's the loser in last night's exchange?

― Geoffrey Schweppes (jaymc), Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

no just that i figured dude who pulled an embarrassing perpetua photo from the depths of the internet after being called "the frasier of indie rock" wouldn't take the high road after being called a nazi

pulled an embarrassing perpetua photo from the depths of the internet

https://twitter.com/edwarddroste/status/276073021842792450

this is why i quit caring about silly things a long time ago.

very glad that i've spent as much time on this as i have

just as bad! xp

@edwarddroste
@shallowrewards go to bed. Your kids will be up soon.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, August 18, 2013 3:41 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark

Damn

Just in case this hadn't already hit a new level of sad, I'm pretty sure Ott has either paid someone or gamed the system to get a lot of his twitter followers. Just too many fake accounts in there. Perhaps that's his IT gig?

buying followers to get up to 8k is pretty sad indeed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-000-Twitter-followers-/261267197940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4bd0ff4

i could do a lot w/ that money

buying followers to get up to 8k is pretty sad indeed

― some dude, Sunday, August 18, 2013 4:46 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

remember, he makes $94k base with bennies... he's definitely not breaking the piggy bank here. i'm impressed

give it to me instead

I dunno, I like him.

this guy seems like a nutball.

Watched this play out yesterday morning. Whether you like Grizzly Bear or not, Ed is a lovely guy with a huge amount of time for his fans and a genuine curiosity and interest in the music press (that is to say that there's no way he doesn't know who Ott or Perpetua or whoever are - he knows who I am, ffs). I've never seen him be anything other than gentlemanly, good-humoured, and humble on Twitter, and I thought he dealt with Ott's frankly pretty disgusting trolling with impeccable restraint and class.

As for Ott... well he's always been a troll to some extent, but this was beyond the pale. Does anybody know why it started, what triggered it?

demotion in the IT dept.

At least old-ILX has retreated into the foothills of social media

Big ott

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-5/over-the-top-poster.jpg

with every blow, comes another lie

can't you feel the 'fork?

Wait a minute, "The Orc"? WHAT Orc?

http://students.english.ilstu.edu/rwohara/creation/Orcs.jpg

Needs more bennies, that one.

balls otm

balls otm and i am cringing so hard at the lack of dignity on display, what is wrong with people

@shallowrewards no I don't want to sleep with you. Stop drunk tweeting and feeling sorry for yourself and take care of your family

I dunno, I like him.

― abcfsk, Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:20 PM

ban this guy. ott-sock.

It's funny. Another community in which Ott embedded himself (Hipinion) seems to think he's a total badass for acting like this.

yeah, the 'you're a gay nazi and I HAVE KIDS" combo is pretty symptomatic

strong self-hatred vibes coming through there, you don't have to be lee edelman to notice that homosexuality is thereby constructed as the decadent/self-indulgent/"sterile" alternative to a manly life of grumpy breadwinning self-sacrifice- it's a common rhetorical move when social conservatives make it, weirdly exotic coming from an indie rock "critic", here it is served with a twist i.e. "now that gays can adopt, you better man up and start a gay family or you're a decadent, bad gay". Fuck that shit.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/78767.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.rankopedia.com/Favourite-Movie-From-Luchino-Visconti/Step1/21025/.htm&h=475&w=262&sz=16&tbnid=7jc4Ih58aIGh6M:&tbnh=186&tbnw=102&zoom=1&usg=__okZUs9BZUnaOX3LBhSCxBqteycI=&docid=t0vatSPLuv_1yM&sa=X&ei=fDYSUoeiC46i4APV2YGgBQ&ved=0CC0Q9QEwAA&dur=55

shit, there's people here that think Ott "won" that exchange, so who knows.

strong self-hatred vibes coming through there, you don't have to be lee edelman to notice that homosexuality is thereby constructed as the decadent/self-indulgent/"sterile" alternative to a manly life of grumpy breadwinning self-sacrifice- it's a common rhetorical move when social conservatives make it, weirdly exotic coming from an indie rock "critic", here it is served with a twist i.e. "now that gays can adopt, you better man up and start a gay family or you're a decadent, bad gay". Fuck that shit.

Or he's straight-up trolling like a 13-year-old on his first computer, which might be as bad.

Who here thinks Ott 'won'? Ott comes across as a nasty, attention-seeking bigot, and Droste comes across as a decent, polite human being faced with a torrent of twitter effluent.

So according to droste's tweets, ott got fired from pfork? Was it just because he was a lousy critic or was there something interesting behind it?

When is Scik Mouthy's Grizzly Bear audition?

didn't he get booted after the exchange about the dude from Hello Nasty PR a whiles back?

so seriously, his argument is that Grizzly Bear benefited from the holocaust because they licensed their music to Volkswagen?

~think abt it~

and is he really dissing whiney on twitter? now he's really gone too far. that's our job!

okay, i weighed in on this subject:

scott seward ‏@skotrok
Chris Ott Is Seriously The Worst Thing Ever.
Expand

didn't he get booted after the exchange about the dude from Hello Nasty PR a whiles back?

― the husbster (self-professed octopus expert) (stevie), Monday, August 19, 2013 11:46 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was Brent D.

is ott reading this thread? he must be. hello, ott

Ott and Weingarten need to form some kind of combustible rockcrit version of Kriss Kross.

The Mack Dad'll make you TAKE! NAZI MONEY!

never heard of this guy, but at least in the old days ppl who soiled themselves in public like this put out good records

(alb1n1, c0sl0y)

Ott and Weingarten need to form some kind of combustible rockcrit version of Kriss Kross.

― some dude, Monday, August 19, 2013 6:03 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Insane Crit Posse

was Brent D also an ilxor for a short while? my memory is so fuzzy on this stuff, thankfully.

Gathering of the Beefalos

Brent D himself posts way upthread.

Chris Ott's music:

https://play.spotify.com/artist/595bn4OFL0PEUkfW6ITeQq?play=true&utm_source=open.spotify.com&utm_medium=open

I've never listened to it.

that shows impressive restraint for someone who posts the link

I listened to the first track, which was basically like having a mosquito buzz my ear for two minutes

really? hmm, maybe he should start a band with whiney.

i don't think ott got fired from PF but if he did it was suicide by cop

Nice to see that Totally is up to his old tricks.

I wonder if Ed Droste ever posted on Pitchfork Smackdown.

So...failed musician and failed writer-about-music? Shit, it's no wonder he's degenerated into basement video-blogging. I'm just surprised he's clothed while on camera.

the rest of this ott album is pretty cool actually

the first track isn't representative

it's not great but there's some cool stuff going on in parts

though i think it's kinda dumb that everyone who does music as a hobby is automatically called a "failed musician" this just seems like a guy making some weird beats for fun

while i agree, i think it would be fair to call ott a "frustrated musician" as he's a musician and clearly frustrated

I'm not talking about commercial prospects. I listened to his music, and it fails. As music.

EPIC OTT FAIL

though i think it's kinda dumb that everyone who does music as a hobby is automatically called a "failed musician" this just seems like a guy making some weird beats for fun

putting it up on spotify implies that you want it to be more than a hobby though.

we are all failed musician

that's not really true. lots of people puts lots of stuff up everywhere. still hate the ott though.

quality of ott's music or grizzly bear's music or size of island's owned by either or number of courses at the meal you ate last week should have no bearing on what is fucked up twitter harassment in the name of "criticism"

oh yeah he seems like a total fucking dick no question

the problem isn't that he's a failed musician or whatever, it's that he's being a psycho. None of his zings at grizzly dude are more than neo-redneck gibberish

Makes no difference if his band sucks. I think it's good when music writers try to play some music or at least dick around with instruments - if only to realize that making really good music is hard, and give em a bit of humility. One would hope. Doesn't seem to have worked that way for Ott but whatevs

I think it's good when music writers try to play some music or at least dick around with instruments

I'd go so far as to insist on it

i didn't know or had forgotten was this dude was like before this incident, so i read the beginning of this here thread, and...

7.4
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/3537-dynasty/

This is what Ott wants. Ott knows this is how to market a twitter handle.

7.4: http://www.pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/3667-the-remixes/

haw

plz don't insist that film critics make movies, I don't get up that early.

vines are acceptable

;)

丂んﾑﾚﾚԾЩ 尺乇Щﾑ尺Ð丂 ‏@shallowrewards 1m
@earlxsweat thanks for helping me pay for my million-dollar condo -- love, @ryanpitchfork #hiphopin2013

丂んﾑﾚﾚԾЩ 尺乇Щﾑ尺Ð丂 ‏@shallowrewards 4m
Who else can I fuck with, this shit is so fucking boring.

@shallowrewards 3m
Man I gotta say Prince William is owning his pattern-baldness better than anyone in world history. Sexy as hell, respect a fucking killer.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/father-teaches-son-how-to-fly-into-rage-over-compl,33487/

wait, Ott plays drums?? okay, its all coming together now. The Whiney Otters double drum attack will not be denied.

fuck are you dragging me into this for

I don't even understand this:

Me: RT @shallowrewards Who else can I fuck with, this shit is so fucking boring. [An entire life, summed up in 57 characters.]

Ott: @burn_amb boring...and looks like a guitar tech.

Is he saying I look like a guitar tech? Or that he does?

i'll give you one guess

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/12/6/14/enhanced-buzz-9394-1354823884-4.jpg
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3473355368/ddfac9389a3e6aca555d39cc201c0c5e.jpeg

lmfao

That photo of me is at least 10 years old.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/karmacorn/sleazy.jpg

That photo of me is at least 10 years old.

― 誤訳侮辱, Monday, August 19, 2013 2:40 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is a hilarious retort considering it's your chosen twitter avatar

I'm not disavowing it or anything; I'm just saying, twitter avatar may not accurately reflect reality of person tweeting.

"fuck are you dragging me into this for"

eh it was just the cranky indie rock writer drummer thing. no offense. i LIKE you. hate the ott.

I don't really want to engage with this because it's the epitome of NAGL but did he spend last night proclaiming his heterosexuality as a setup for today's swooning over Prince William?

http://vimeo.com/50499530

Re-reading your 33 1/3 book on Unknown Pleasures and it's taken on a whole new slant as I now have your voice in my head

there are pills u can take for that

so what is going on here

omg that video. hahahaha

nice find ums

'telling' as they say

http://vimeo.com/50499530

― usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, August 19, 2013 2:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a lot more entertaining if you imagine that there's a loaded handgun on the table in front of him

pointed which way

up to you, my friend

"i just think people are tired of, um, people are tired of reading the same thing in 20 different places. i think they're tired of top ten lists. i feel like we've kinda failed... to do anything with the internet. we're not doing anything that's helping anyone."

"i know. but nobody has to die today, chris. we can all walk out of here, ok?"

"There's more levels of passes at the Pitchfork festival than there are levels of security in the US government! Think about it!"

I couldn't get past the part where he claimed that print mags knew more about their readers than internet advertisers. Is it worth watching more?

Depends how much you like listening to weird angry muttering. I dug it.

this is a lot more entertaining if you imagine that there's a loaded handgun on the table in front of him

so good

would he feel comfortable saying this stuff if his real name was attached to it? (the twitter stuff)

Depends how much you like listening to weird angry muttering. I dug it.

do black helicopters show up at the end?

so sad that ott failed the children of the internet. he only wants to raise them the way he was raised.??????????????????????

man does whiney make six figures? crazy

Whiney G. B.M.F. Weingarten

we're not doing anything that's helping anyone."

this just made me realize that whiney and john roderick in the same room together would make the universe collapse

The SR video series is entertaining. He only seems to _write in half-formed caps lock metaphors these days but in video form the arguments were engaging whether I agreed or not.

there's definitely a mumblecore lester bangs vibe that can be amusing when he's informing rather than seething

if he honestly wanted to spotlight cool random shit rather than bitch about how stupid other writers are those videos would be dope, but the level of transparent resentment is just so high

'they don't care about music -- they just want attention'

tynan delong meets mark david chapman

like many an ilxor, i have no right to call out anybody who decided/accepted that making a life of profesh music crit was for the birds/not for them, but clearly doesn't have better things to do than gawk and snark from the sideline. but making a series of web vids about how wrong, wrong, wrong everybody is while crowing about how you've got a real deal grade a middle class life while gay-baiting the dude from grizzly bear (and @ing other critics to make sure they know you're doing it) is just...yeesh.

also I'm pretty sure people do in fact want more top 10 lists

This whole thing made me realise this generation of kids will be able to browse the twitter's history of their parents and really, daddy? ed droste?

This guy is a bitter fool.

can't believe a dude with opinions is running around writing about music

i think that's ott's position towards everyone else, is the thing

wk otm

this is a lot more entertaining if you imagine that there's a loaded handgun on the table in front of him

so good

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 7:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

only way to view it imo

Just watched some of his other videos. Very informative and interesting, tbf. Too bad he cant just stick to that kind of thing.

"We know how to read webtstats, son. *snicker* Yeah, we're BEGGING to inflate our worth. Money is made on valid stats, you think we fooled New Line Cinema with hocum? You. Are. Always (I can only assume). Wrong."

"page views, all these metrics that they use to sell advertising are completely worthless"

If you're so wizened with "the biz", Don, you know I can't discuss the particulars of any current negotiations, but they involve syndication. And dwarf SPIN and RS's readership combined.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:37 PM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Book it.

"i just think people are tired of, um, people are tired of reading the same thing in 20 different places. i think they're tired of top ten lists. i feel like we've kinda failed... to do anything with the internet. we're not doing anything that's helping anyone."

This is as far as I got. Serious question: do other people get this emotional about this stuff?

o/

WHY DO YOU MOCK MY PAIN uh

won't someone please think of the internet?

This is as far as I got. Serious question: do other people get this emotional about this stuff?

― Tim F, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 8:32 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

depends on what prescriptions they're taking, or what prescriptions they've stopped taking.

"This whole thing made me realise this generation of kids will be able to browse the twitter's history of their parents and really, daddy? ed droste?"

OTM. Can't imagine that his kids or wife know anything about the recent nonsense, but I am embarrassed for them.

Page views don't seem to be as important a metric for advertisers as they used to be

oh yeah? what are they looking for?

number of shares/likes ("engagement") & dwell time

page views are still the dominant metric only because much better ones (time on site for instance) are still in their infancy

but page views are so easily manipulated

you can't trust that shit

(time on site for instance) are still in their infancy

is it seen this way? this + ~engagement~ were my primary metrics last time i was doing this stuff for a gig & nobody complained, but that could be because because nobody understood what i was supposed to be doing anyway.

http://vimeo.com/51405581

"i mean you're looking at a guy in a basement"

We are all of us in a basement, but some of us are looking at a guy in a basement.

ugh, yeah, i'm not making fun of him anymore. all of a sudden i feel bad now. that vid is the last i need to see. i don't actually HATE him. i don't even know him. just that persona here and elsewhere. really rubs me the wrong way. that weary thing too in the videos. blah. weary of all the fuckin' bullshit, man. life is rough.

that could be because because nobody understood what i was supposed to be doing anyway.

ding ding ding ding

Fader? FACT? Pitchfork? You know, you go all the way through to the really, um, editorially focused sites. You know, Collapse Board and these message boards. Um, ILM. You know, Pre-fix Mag. This just goes on and on and on. And…it just stretches everything way too thin.

and i blame you guys too cuz i never think of this stuff unless you guys bring it up. i think i'm really just still mad at him dissing lansing-dreiden. that's really what it's all about.

on a human level I sympathize with people who are sad and frustrated, but that doesn't license him to lash out at somebody else, and the gleeful wielding of the word "sunsetting" by a critic against a musician just reeks of free-floating resentimment against the object (Music) he supposedly is so passionate about. once you add in the homophobic animus that he pointed at ed, it's harder still to feel any sympathy.

just remember: the great thing about being a family man is that eventually the wife and kids go to sleep and you can get online and chat with cute gay guys

page views are still the dominant metric only because much better ones (time on site for instance) are still in their infancy

but page views are so easily manipulated

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:31 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i dunno people tell us time on site, unique viewers, bounce rates etc are important, it's changed a lot in the last 5 years i think

& engagement as hoos said

We are all of us in a basement, but some of us are looking at a guy in a basement.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 11:45 AM

sometimes the guy in the basement stares back is what youre saying

his whole point in that vid is that there are too many portals and magazines and websites?? wtf that's not true.

ok just emailed our head of ad sales and he said that unique visitors is by far the number one metric and page views is "secondary in terms of importance"

sometimes the guy in the basement stares back is what youre saying

I'm really only going to worry if he crawls out of the screen with his hair in his eyes.

vines are acceptable

no joke: I have no idea what they are.

tom selleck wants his mustache back

his whole point in that vid is that there are too many portals and magazines and websites?? wtf that's not true.

and then his solution is writers like julian cope who have their own site? confusing stuff.

no joke: I have no idea what they are.

for once you're actually not missing anything

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2012/12/6/14/enhanced-buzz-9394-1354823884-4.jpghttp://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28600000/Ned-Flanders-ned-flanders-28668597-1000-1000.gif

It's like Between Two Ferns if you took out the guests, the jokes and the ferns

http://oi43.tinypic.com/28jy9hz.jpg

no joke: I have no idea what they are.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:09 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vines_(band)

ok whenever anyone posts a tinypic, i click the link and get a page full of ads and then the pic appears like 5 seconds later. not sure how that "pageview" gets calculated but i hope some droplet of my rage makes it into the stats

morbs, check these great vines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoEmsjIYj1s

wow vine sucks

just remember: the great thing about being a family man is that eventually the wife and kids go to sleep and you can get online and chat with cute gay guys

lolll

wow vine sucks
--usic for 18 magicians (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

ladies and gentlemen, someone schooling us on online strategy

i've seen vine before whiney, i wasn't schooling you on 'online strategy' just saying that page views don't matter as much anymore

you're the one who makes 150K with full bennies u should know this stuff

viney g. vinegarten more like it

All hitting F5 on ilx a bunch of times then close up on his face "WHO GIVES A SHIT?"

would watch

i make 94k. base

thank you 94k base god

god damnit i was literally about to make that my display name

is he really @PitchforkMe? :(

https://vine.co/v/hMLVA1emhej

man see u

pitch a fork @ me i'm done

I was watching the basement video and there was some dust on my screen right where his mustache was and I whipped it with my finger and then it just felt like I was having an intimate moment so I bailed on the video. Oh well.

Ah, the plot of Spike Jonze's new film.

Tweets of Rage off Ott's Basement Tapes now up on spotify

http://mimo.recordingconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/her-poster-joaquin-phoenix-628x628.jpg

When u have a family & they're asleep at the same time u will understand happiness

Ninety-Four-Thousand Dollar Bash