Defend Phil Collins

(arh, xx-pst)

He played drums for Eno.

politics-wise I've heard things, but since I don't check him - haven't investigated further (on the other hand, if I lived in the UK...).

anyone remember marcello's freejazz story?

I was too nice to the Postal Service though.

Ol' Dirty Bastard and lots of other rap and RnB stars to thread.

Also, Geir needs to be here.

Other than that, I still think his first three solo albums have gotten a bit too much criticism. Sure, they aren't quite in the league of Peter Gabriel's solo work (much less in the league of Genesis at their best), but there are lots of great tracks there too. From "But Seriously" onward it was downhill though, and "Dance Into The Light" is probably one of the worst albums ever.

Also, Phil Collins is a magnificent drummer. Maybe his best moment as a drummer is "Intruder" - the opening track on Peter Gabriel's third album.

'Mama''s quite a good song.

He was a big fan of The Action as a youth.

No, that's it. I've run out of good words to say for him.

I like "Against All Odds", no matter how schmaltzy it may be, although it may be because I had a thing for Rachel Ward when I was a teenager.

He is a decent actor, and probably one of the top hundred-thousand drummers in the world.

I think that the fact the song has actually spawned an urban legend speaks to how powerful it is....

Don't know much else about his music and frankly don't care.

Sure, he's a good drummer, but I recall hating him for his skin-work on the re-made version of Howard Jones' 'No One Is To Blame' - the original was far better.

He is indeed pretty funny in interviews. Very self-affacting. I think he'd be an OK guy to have a pint with. Although the conversation with Peter Gabriel would be far more interesting. Sting can blow himself. (sorry - did an interview with Sting recently and I'm struggling BADLY to finish the article)

http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/someair.htm

Fritz, I didn't know he was in a Bone Thugs video?? Which one??

Also, imagine the possibilities that appearance brings up in a game of "Six Degrees of Phil Collins"....it probably means you could connect say, Mase and Marianne Faithful in less than 4 degrees....like Bone Thugs worked with collins, they worked with Biggie on Notorious Thugs, Biggie worked with Mase, then Phil subbed for drums with Zeppelin at Live Aid (I think) and probably John Paul Jones did some arranging for Marianne I bet back in the mid-60s....(I'm not sure about all these facts, just speculating, but the possibilites like this are endless.)...

Isn't this what we praise Joy Division for?

This may not have been you, but I once head John say in an interview that Phil Collins had stolen the PiL drum sound! Apparently, after hearing the drum sound on 'Flowers' Collins requested the same engineer that PiL used and set up the drums exactly the same! Is this true? Was it you!

Yes, this is true, and it was me. John is correct but there is a bit more to it. I learnt how to get that "kind" of drum sound by watching Hugh Padgham record in the same Stone Room at the Townhouse. Hugh recorded Peter Gabriel's 3rd album and if you listen to a song called 'Intruder' you will hear what I'm talking about. When It came to doing the PiL album I used similar methods to achieve a similar sound. During the making of the 'Flowers of Romance' I bumped into Phil Collins in the corridor of the Townhouse, I had worked as an assistant on his first LP, and he was very inquisitive about how I was surviving working with the evil Johnny Rotten! I told him John was a top class geeza, and promised to introduce them if he was keen.

Later that day me and John went to the Townhouse canteen to eat boiled cabbage and mash, and in walked Phil so I introduced them. Much to all our surprise they got on like a house on fire! Anyway back to the drum story... Much later Phil was producing a Chris Bailey (of Earth Wind and Fire) album, and he wanted THAT drum sound, but Hugh was off working with the Police. Phil had by then heard snippets of the PiL album. So, the day we were in mastering the 'Flowers' single remix at the Townhouse cutting rooms next door, I got a call from Phil saying HELP! So I went in for an hour or so and dialed it up!

Pardon granted for: Squonk

There is lots of Phil Collins-associated music that I like, and lots that I loathe. I generally find him to be unbelievably smarmy, though, so it's hard to like even the good stuff.

(this, btw, would also fit into the ILE "funniest things said while having sex" thread)

"No really, Gail, he was there and John Martyn was on guitar, and he talked him into playing and John Stevens said halfway through one improv piece "Right you lot, Phil and I are gonna have a little chat on the drums now so the rest of you cunts can just shaddup, alright?"

"Yes, that sounds like good old John," sighed G. Four-second pause. "Dirty old man that he was..."

(according to G, every Brit improv legend is or was a "dirty old man" heheh).

Anyway, as a drummer the boy Collins dun good on the John Cale Island trilogy and also on Bob Fripp's Exposure. The latter, come to think of it, is not currently available on CD either except as an expensive and not recommended import.

Has no one noted what a brilliant 'video actor' Phil Collins is? Not every artist puts their *all* into their visual performance (nevermind exact proper lip-synching) as Phil Collins does. Like, in the video for 'Mama', he literally looks like he's going mad with rage, hatred and desire, and you really believe it, you can't take your eyes off him... It is hard to believe this is the same guy who's being all cheery and silly in some of his other videos. That's what I love about Phil Collins, he is so multifaceted, as well as multi-talented. I don't claim to love *all* his songs (some of them I downright can't stand) but I don't turn my nose up at him as a musical artist. It takes talent to write a good pop tune, and that Phil Collins has written so many well-loved hits is testament to his song-writing skill, on top of being a brilliant drummer, a very decent keyboardist, and emotive vocalist. Now that I think about it, Phil Collins was the first pop artist I ever got into as a teenager. Ah, memories! :)

Haha that was me, babbling about "Domino"!

So what about that New Toyota Ad with Phil Collins?

-- Fabrice

Yes. I used to have a copy, but I left it on my desk and it was the victim of office theft. It's hillarious, and again the word here is 'unintentionally'.

(I'm speaking of Trick of the Tail and Abacab)

"it's no fun/being an illegal alien!"

holy shit new modern drummer has FOURTEEN PHIL COLLINS BEATS

"He's totally punk rock, he's got on sneakers and a suit! It's crazy!"

per the Miami Vice argument upthread, Phil actually had a song on the Miami Vice 2 sdtrk, one of his best solo songs, 'Take Me Home.' fcking great tune.

do you still subscribe to modern drummy, cutty

Phil is an Honorary Negro. That's all the justification he needs.

I hate myself for reviving this thing TWICE, but I just listened to Hello I Must Be Going, and he can do the untrustworthy-cad-narrator as well as Randy Newman. Not all the time, but when he's on. "Like China" is probably the smartest song ever about defloweration. "Don't Let Him Steal Your Heart Away" is probably bad advice.

Also, my wife learned in her master's percussion methods class that Phil has an official cadence named after him. You know what it sounds like. DA-dum!, DA-dum!, DA-dum!, DA-dum!, dum-dum ("I can feel it coming in the air tonight...."). It's also in "Thru These Walls" and probably a ton of other shit.

Not that Phil needs any more defending, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy52yueBX_s

Or rather...

http://adweek.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/31/gorilla.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy52yueBX_s

Har!

Has no one noted what a brilliant 'video actor' Phil Collins is? Not every artist puts their *all* into their visual performance (nevermind exact proper lip-synching) as Phil Collins does. Like, in the video for 'Mama', he literally looks like he's going mad with rage, hatred and desire, and you really believe it, you can't take your eyes off him

i was listening to "abacab" the other day...it's such a weird album, sort of mainstream 80s pop, but there's still odd structural and instrumental passages that betray that they used to be prog chops dudes, strange mix and i kind of love it...there's a weird subgenre of music like this, all the prog dudes really embraced the 80s, like the 80s yes albums, and asia, stuff like that...maybe rush's 80s albums like signals and grace under pressure have that same vibe (tho rush wasn't really prog exactly)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QZOc-DbE5ko

"the "gangsta" way he dealt with his wife's affair with his decorator (ie, an ultra-spiteful appearance on TOTP with a tin of paint on the piano)."

anyone have a youtube of this?

i was listening to "abacab" the other day...it's such a weird album, sort of mainstream 80s pop, but there's still odd structural and instrumental passages that betray that they used to be prog chops dudes, strange mix and i kind of love it...

This goes for a lot of late 70s/early 80s AOR by musicians with a prog background.
Not a fan of "Abacab" though.

What are some other good examples of prog bands getting poppy, yet remaining great?

The best I can think of is Le Orme's late '70s albums (particularly 'Storia O Leggenda'). They always seemed more inspired to me compared to their more famous early '70s work.

All Rush from '78-82

I'd forgotten about these when I revived, but here's some PC "fan fiction" that might appeal to readers of this thread. See if you can spot the familiar ILXor in the second one!

They must have thought we had a butler.

There is a married bachelor, therefore the moon is made of green cheese.

Enter Kogan, a Hispanic (we won't insult him by assuming Mexican) haircutter and zapatarist who owns the joint and digs the Latin hip hop.

It's easy to only remember In The Air Tonight on Miami Vice, but he did convincingly portray a coke dealer creep aswell!

Defend Phil Collins

No.

never ban Bo Jackson Overdrive

Bo is rong. Wind & Wuthering is reason enough to not murder Phil Collins completely.

well actually I did like A Trick of the Tail and Abacab. My vitriol is mostly for his solo career (although yes, "in the air tonight" ist neato)

Pigeons Ep was good genesis past Wind and Wuthering.

I'll admit to not having heard Wind and Wuthering so I have no opinion on it.

on some Who video he's interviewed about keith moon's death. he said, "yeah, when i heard about it, i called up townshend and said, 'listen...'" right here you think he's gonna say, "i'm really sorry about keith, he was amazing, my condolences" etc. etc. nope. he says, "listen, if you need a drummer...."

he had his moments, but phil in the Who fills me with terror. nonetheless, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOLi7iXR1k

My vitriol is mostly for his solo career

TS forgiving talented people for turning shit because they were good once vs burning them for turning shit

Tough decision

Phil Collins solo:
"In The Air Tonight" and the entire "Face Value" album
"Thru These Walls", "I Don't Care Anymore" and several great songs from the followup
"Against All Odds"
"Take Me Home" (and some lesser known gems from the same album such as "Long Long Way")

Nuff said.

Admittedly, it has been pretty depressive from the 90s onwards though.

He sounded great on a recent reunion tour recording I heard. Especially on oldies like "In The Cage". I have no stomach for ballads a la "Hold On My Heart", etc, tho. Still, I Defend the man!

Oh, and Wind And Wuthering is excellent.

Best ever album to play on a cold windy morning.

phil doesn't need you guys

bone thugs got his back

i have affection for his first three solo albums, which my dad played endlessly when i were wee.

"Easy Lover" and "In The Air Tonight" are probably better than your favorite singer's best songs. "Land of Confusion" too for that matter. I know nothing about his drumming but I don't care about prog rock at all. He should have always been making pop music.

The restaurant I'm currently working at recently hosted a party (complete with a DJ) for a bunch of teachers and administrators from a local highschool, with about 70% of the attendees being black people in their 30's and 40's. The DJ put on "Easy Lover" at one point and it was just like he put on Cameo or something. Good Times.

Land of Confusion was a Genesis t00n! booyah! (not that he probably didn't have most of the say behind it, but)....

....don't care about prog rock?

...DON'T CARE ABOUT PROG ROCK?

Selling England by the Pound > every Phil Collins solo album!

"Easy Lover" and "In The Air Tonight" are probably better than your favorite singer's best songs

fuck yes. this has been stuck in my head for days and i don't mind one bit

Gated drums and his daughter is cute.

His music doesn't sound the least bit stale....I have to give him credit for that.

"Behind the Lines" is in my head right now. The solo version allegedly inspired by listening to high-speed rewind of the midtempo band version. It is a good track. I'm also thinking about some of the more spacious and well-constructed fills in "I Missed Again."

phil noooooo

http://www.spinner.com/2009/09/10/phil-collins-may-never-drum-again-due-to-spinal-injury

Awww what. I mean he'd retired anyway after the last tour... now I wonder if that was why? but still its sad when injury affects a person's main kill/talent.

He was brilliant in A Hard Days Night.

i've had Take Me Home in my head every day for a month

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbkL4OKcZCQ

the Brand X stuff is kinda stuffy fusiony jive, but i also kinda dig it and phil is NEXT LEVEL drums on that

I like Phil but what in the heck happened to his voice on 'Going Back'?

Dunno. I think "Going Back" is a surprisingly good album. A much better 2010 covers album than Peter Gabriel did, which surprises me in a way because I didn't expect Phil top top Peter in 2010 (well... didn't ever, in fact...)

Phil Collins contemplates suicide, the Alamo, and camera artifacts that disguise themselves as paranormal energy

(you think I'm joking here?)

"Phil Collins will just disappear or be murdered in some hotel bedroom, and people will say, 'What happened to Phil?' And the answer will be, 'He got murdered, but, yeah, anyway, let's carry on.' That kind of thing."

In a cosmic sense this is true, I guess. But among other things he is ignoring who will win an Oscar for their tender and sensitive portrayal of Phil Collins getting shot in a hotel bedroom.

Meryl Streep?

Dir. by Todd Haynes

Tonight...

Tagline: He didn't see it coming.

as a sidenote: the covers album has been a surprise commercial success (what else is new). Following in the footsteps of McDonald, Stewart, etc, yawn.

Easy Lover will get pretty much any party going.

As does his cover of "You Can't Hurry Love."

I agree it isn't exactly the most original idea, but he does it great, with respect to the originals. His somewhat smoother versions of Stevie Wonder ballads from the 70s are not quite up there with the 60s covers though.
Still, his best album since "...But Seriously..." so the success is deserved.

xpost true, true. but is it more likely to deliver the dance than the diana ross version? i guess the phil version would be more likely to have the lads dancing around too..

They aren't really all that different from each other, are they? Except one has a male singer and the other one has a female one, but I guess the voice singing isn't the most important aspect when it comes to dancefloor appeal.

Aw...

http://www.philcollins-fr.com/Discographie/albums/12goingback.jpg

*murders phil collins in some hotel bedroom*

"I don't want to sound like a weirdo. I'm not Shirley MacLaine..."

Eh?

I think his voice sounds weird these days as he drops all the songs' keys by a whole tone or so he doesn't physically capsize. Did so on the recent-ish Genesis tour. Saw him do the Motown covers on the telly, he barely had to break a sweat.

phil looks weirdly similar to a hitler jugend drummer boy there...

From the past, Phil Collins responds to all criticism upthread and elsewhere:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UDIwZAxomYk/TFQjyiRXmJI/AAAAAAAAAr8/Sbf4ixLhpqg/61-phil-collins-balding-02.jpg

shake that tambourine

"In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you"

TPL does Face Value: http://nobilliards.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/phil-collins-face-value.html

That was great! Worth mentioning that the use of the EWF horns was "controversial," especially in the UK, for making Phil sound too "black." Which is why some of this stuff didn't make it onto Genesis albums, but post success, why the EWF horns return for "Abacab."

Made the most unreligious song about Jesus ever?

Wow, never heard his "Tomorrow Never Knows" before; it works amazingly well. Great piece, Marcello.

That was great! Worth mentioning that the use of the EWF horns was "controversial," especially in the UK, for making Phil sound too "black."

Who was it controversial with?

Rockist critics and fans.

Racist you mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pTcO4IzhuI

such a great and strange piece of music in which phil goes all philip glass on us

That first album has all kinds of cool, weird shit.

"take me home" = underrated great song
― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Tuesday, October 7, 2003 12:37 AM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Take Me Home" - yes, a pretty spiffy song.

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, October 7, 2003 10:45 AM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

per the Miami Vice argument upthread, Phil actually had a song on the Miami Vice 2 sdtrk, one of his best solo songs, 'Take Me Home.' fcking great tune.

― the table is the table, Friday, August 24, 2007 10:01 AM (6 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't remember Take Me Home

oh wait

cuz you don't remember!

That first album has all kinds of cool, weird shit.

This is true. Hand In Hand is another one.

I love the delicate little ballad "This Must Be Love," especially the bongos and bass.

That song is *very* John Martyn-esque imo. Weren't they living together at that point or something?

"take me home" and "against all odds" are all-time

That photo Ned posted above is the greatest thing ever.

xpost Dunno how Phil and john Martyn became friends, but Phil was essentially to getting Martyn off the sauce, and they remained close friends until his death.

I'm sure I've said it upthread, but I'm happy to defend pretty much everything he did up through and including most of "No Jacket Required" and "Invisible Touch," side-gigs (on albums, on stage) included. Then it gets pretty shaky.

Might have this wrong but i think they really bonded while going through simultaneous divorces.

I like all the love shown to the album tracks off Face Value. The two instrumental numbers are great and "I'm Not Moving" is another standout for me; a real funky, bouncing number which sounds like some early 80s sitcom theme, yet hides some fairly desperate lyrics.

Might have this wrong but i think they really bonded while going through simultaneous divorces.

"Women. Amirite?"

that's the side of Phil that I mostly don't like tbh, the obvious bitter break-up songs, 'I Don't Care Anymore' etc

Apparently it was a very bitter divorce.

It certainly was; it spawned enough material for two albums (also "Against All Odds", which was apparently a Face Value outtake). I've never really listened to Hello, I Must Be Going! though, is it as good as the debut?

It's got a few good'ns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jmc6TZ5Guw#t=170

Wow, youtube wormhole entered!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=labtqRPg9jk

Oh man, I'm gonna make it a Frida Friday. Thanks Josh.

fabulous pants!

Over the holidays I asked my sister if she wanted to hear my Phil Collins impression, and then I just yelled 'TONITE!'

She thought it was pretty funny. I could have used a gated snare drum, though.

Oh, and in defense of Phil: A Trick of the Tail; Down and Out; Most of ABACAB; I'm Not Leaving; Easy Lover with Philip Bailey; Two Hearts, from the movie Buster.

i'm not moving anywhere!

Well, I'd be the first to say that I don't care for a lot of what he did in his solo career. However, I do think he's a great singer and an even better drummer, particularly on Genesis' '70s works: 'Watcher Of The Skies', 'The Musical Box', 'Dance On A Volcano'... I could imagine Phil getting on a lot of people's tits in the '80s due to his ubiquity: hits with Genesis, a successful solo career, various collaborations and guest appearances both as a singer and as a drummer, that Concorde thing at Live Aid etc. But now that he's no longer in the public eye to the degree that he once was, it's easier to look past that, I guess. While you'll never catch me listening to No Jacket Required, I definitely have time for A Trick Of The Tail or Duke (or nearly every Gabriel-fronted Genesis record), and I enjoy his work with Brand X.

Wasn't this case settled years ago? Collins recorded a lot of material, much of it good, some of it first-rate, some terrible. Nothing to apologize for.

otm

phil solo > pete solo. there, i said it

consider catching yourself listening to no jacket required, it's pretty good

why wouldn't you catch yourself listening to NJR?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E86cxhOTfFo

charity shop find 3 weeks ago : 3 cd boxset of face value, no jacket required, and ..but seriously : £3

not listened to them properly yet, but there are some interesting tracks here and there.

Second album underrated.

agreed - was gonna say, hello i must be going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but seriously

yeah, i did wonder they skipped that album.

aaaaaaannnd in today's big coincidence: http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/key-tracks-phil-collins-no-jacket-required

Awesome!

Per Hugh Padgham elsewhere, there's a cool Phil Collins drum exercise in "I Don't Care Anymore." The song starts out with the drums totally dead and '70s, then as the song progresses, they gradually fade in more effects and room, until we arrive at the classic '80s Phil gated reverb drum sounds. It's a pretty cool trick, if you pay attention.

I used to wonder how the he played that part on Frida's "I Know There's Something Going On." Then he did it on Letterman and I was like, ok, that's pretty cool (at 2:57):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eDaMSBJF4w

That's great. He's such a musical drummer, I can see why he pairs well with someone else. I could watch him and Steve Jordan play all day.

Totally forgot "Against All Odds" was nominated for an Oscar. But it's no "Tarzan."

I think Against All Odds might be the best of his spate of self-pitying and self-righteous and bitter ballads.

love the bit where phil plays 'going to a gogo' with the letterman band in that video above - have always adored that opening drum lick.

I actually like "Against All Odds", it's better when you get the movie and video out of your head, you can think of your own situation, someone who left you, and really feel it, man.

welcome to the gay experience

really feel it, man.

Phil sure does.

I think Phil the wounded soul belter gets a bad rap. HIs vox on this and "I Don't Care Anymore" are great. Not in the real soul man sense, but better than, I don't know, Michael Bolton. Like, you might not like his voice, but I don't think anyone would say he's not singing the hell out of these.

that legendary oscars performance of against all odds, which phil moans about in the letterman clip above
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWNvlT44nlw

are the poles really Michael Bolton vs soul?. Collins is a fine pop singer except when he bellows.

But I like the bellowing. He only does it when he is really feeling it.

ahah. I have always liked "Against All Odds". Ever since I was a kid !
I'm all for cheesy 80s ballads.
and more generally, I find PhilCo OK.
For all the terrible and uncool aspects about him many of his songs have a nostalgic impact on me.
the sound of more simple, superficial days...

Against All Odds is like the king of 'you treated me like crap so i killed myself i bet you feel bad now' balladry

precisely why I like it !
(no, actually, it's only for the music since I have never cared for the lyrics).

i'm with weller on this: the bitterest phil is hard to swallow

Pretty great episode of This American Life where they randomly call up Phil Collins to school them on how to write a break-up song. Seems like a good dude:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/339/break-up

love the bit where phil plays 'going to a gogo' with the letterman band in that video above - have always adored that opening drum lick.

― #Research (stevie), Thursday, February 5, 2015 10:45 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, that's a great bit. I wonder if Phil saw the Letterman appearance as an opportunity to remind those who might've forgotten that he was also (and still) a drummer.

This thread has a terrible side-effect : It makes me want to listen to PhilCo for the first time since... the early 90s !
Beware spotify !

by the way, for those interested in PhilCo AND football : the classic pep music for the entrance of the players of PSG at Parc des Princes is "who said I would" !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRRh-AOh-Nk

As a kid, I was a sucker for that '80s archetype of the loveable shlub embodied by Phil, Huey Lewis, Bill Murray, etc.

I also linked him in my brain with Robin Williams, maybe because they were both irrepressible hams who were absolutely everywhere that decade. An association made worrying by RW's suicide and PC's late struggles with what sounds like depression.

Steve Jordan with the tambourine swag on that Letterman clip. man, Phil was (and probably is) a great drummer.

i thought he had back issues that made it hard for him to play now :(

this is so ill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3rJXV4R4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpul9Xmjlv4

Best Phil story ever:

"There’s a great little anecdote from Phil Collins in the latest issue of either Uncut or Mojo (I forget which). Apparently Phil played congas on “Art of Dying” on a session for All Things Must Pass, but there were no congas in the final mix and he wasn’t credited on the album. Years later, when he heard that George was remastering ATMP, he mentioned this to a mutual friend. A few days later, a tape showed up in the mail with a note from George saying “is this you”? Phil played the tape and heard a version of “Art of Dying” with absolutely horrible congas, at the end of which he could hear George saying to Phil Spector “let’s try it again without the conga player.” Phil was mortified. A few days later, George called and asked if he got the tape. Phil started to say George didn’t have to embarrass him like that, but George laughingly interrupted and said that it wasn’t really Phil’s congas, that he had Ray Cooper play really bad congas on purpose and sent it to Phil as a joke, and that Phil’s congas were fine. Phil was finally credited on the ATMP reissue."

George is awesome.

i imagine that there's a cryptic reference to linda mccartney's legendary backing vocals in that practical joke

that is a fantastic fantastic story

yeah, reading that was a cracking start to the day.

i keep hearing this thread title as the name of an action movie

starring Jason Statham.

i keep hearing this thread title as the name of an action movie

ahahah. after "saving private ryan".

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Phil-Collins-made-an-honorary-Texan-by-the-6127933.php

"You'll Be In My Heart" is the most touching Academy Award winning song from a Disney movie released in 1999, hands down.

Been looking forward to this interview...I'm only halfway through but Phil sounds like a battered and humble(d?) dude these days.
http://www.thetrapset.net/127-phil-collins-genesis-brand-x-phil-collins/

It's easy to think, due to the number of years that he'd been around and the amount of things he'd been involved with, that Phil Collins was older at his No Jacket Required commercial peak than he actually was, but in fact he was only 34.

Anyway, while I've a soft spot for Collins fronted Genesis (in particular A Trick of the Tail, Duke and Invisible Touch), I never really warmed to his solo stuff for many years. However, recently I've begun to appreciate some - although not all - of the tracks from the first four solo albums. There's some genuinely nice stuff on Face Value and Hello, I Must Be Going, and I've grown fond of some of the "darker" moments on No Jacket Required ... 'Long Long Way to Go' and 'Take Me Home' in particular, although 'One More Night' has been hitting the spot for me recently. Of course, I'm still not 100% taken with his excessive use of horns, but on some tracks they work well (as on 'Something Happened On the Way to Heaven', for example)

...But Seriously is a better record than most give it credit for, actually.

But yeah, as the years go by I'm beginning to find the level of scorn that Collins attracts to be ridiculously over the top pretty much most of the time. There are, and have been, far far far bigger jerks in music, and a lot of the bile thrown Collins' way seems petty.

Compared to Billy Joel he's practically a saint.

He's good and defensible up and through No Jacket, and with Genesis even the last record. I don't think I've heard his last four solo records, and don't recognize a single song title save "Wear My Hat," which I only know from when I saw him live last tour and it was a goofy novelty number. He's playing here Monday but I don't think I'll be able to catch it. US tour at least is relatively modest, heard it might have been due to concerns about his health.

Like, on one hand you have disgruntled Genesis fans who blame Collins for the way the band developed in the '80s, which isn't really fair given that all members of Genesis were equally responsible - not to mention they were making music appropriate to, inspired by and a reaction to the time. If they'd put an album like Nursery Cryme out in 1981, they would have been criticised for it. On another hand, it just seems like sour grapes and jealousy that Collins was everywhere and super successful on a huge scale.

(x-post)

But he worked for it! He worked his butt off for it. And he was nothing but a drummer her still would have been one of the best drummers of all time.

He's playing here Monday but I don't think I'll be able to catch it. US tour at least is relatively modest, heard it might have been due to concerns about his health.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:48 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I've heard he's actually sitting down for the gigs and struggles to walk without a cane. I haven't seen any footage of his recent tour though, so I don't know what shape his voice is in right now.

I've begun to realise recently that for a guy that made his name as one of the greatest drummers in progressive rock, that I really love his voice and find his singing - when it's at its finest - unbeatable.

Like, fucking hell his vocal on 'Mama' is some real hairs-standing-up-on-the-back-of-the-neck shit.

as per my previously mentioned charity boxset find, I have enjoyed the albums far more than I ever expected to.
basically, yeah, he definitely got a lot more shit than he deserved.

But he worked for it! He worked his butt off for it. And he was nothing but a drummer her still would have been one of the best drummers of all time.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:58 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely, you can't really fault his work ethic. Not just Genesis and solo, but Brand X and all those guest appearances. Speaking of which, is there a list anywhere of all the stuff Collins played on over the years?

It's funny - there's been more than a few artists over the years that have been all about clinging to their supposed "arty" credentials, and just as many that want to be million-selling pop stars. During his career, Collins has been both a huge pop star and a cult art-rock hero.

“Misunderstanding”is pretty great but “Easy Lover” is f’in all-time

Absolutely, you can't really fault his work ethic. Not just Genesis and solo, but Brand X and all those guest appearances. Speaking of which, is there a list anywhere of all the stuff Collins played on over the years?

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/phil-collins-plays-well-with-others/

“Misunderstanding”is pretty great but “Easy Lover” is f’in all-time

― calstars, Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:20 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I love both, fwiw!

Yeah turrican you are def otm

collins drumming on gabriel 3 all time

Just found out Phil sang this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyagd2EvwDU

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/phil-collins-plays-well-with-others/

― mark e, Thursday, October 18, 2018 7:23 PM (thirty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Even that doesn't seem to be close to exhaustive - the people in the comments section are pointing out so much that's missing that it's making my head spin.

Talking about Gabriel, nobody ever thought he was the fucking antichrist when he did his version of a pop album with So.

"Just found out Phil sang this"

it says "vocals: phil" on the back of the album sleeve after the song title!

I was listening to ...But Seriously and Face Value when I was in grade 4, so he was among my very first favorite artists.
It's probably anathema here, but as a soft song, I really liked Another Day in Paradise when I heard it. Apparently there was a film involved that I haven't watched (was it Jungle Book ? I like the Jungle Book).
As others said, his music is pretty innocuous.

“Now she don’t even know my name / but I think she likes me just the same” story of my life

Talking about Gabriel, nobody ever thought he was the fucking antichrist when he did his version of a pop album with /So/.

"Just found out Phil sang this"

it says "vocals: phil" on the back of the album sleeve after the song title!

fwiw he only plays on a few tracks on Gabriel 3.

The hate toward him has softened in the last decade or so. Partly it's that he's no longer inescapable on TV and radio, but also that his influence as a pop songwriter is more enduring than anyone would have thought in the 80s.

Reading his book really put things in perspective for me. There was a period he was actively in Genesis and solo, both stadium level endeavors, plus also playing drums for Robert Plant (on tour!) and Eric Clapton, plus producing and guesting, plus sometimes acting, plus playing any number of benefits. The bulk of this was between 1980 and, say, 1986. Just a ton of work.

phil collins is good.

as is billy joel.

so are the eagles.

all in a "take a couple/few tracks per album and ignore most of the output" kind of way but still

heard "something happened on the way to heaven" in the food court the over day and it brightened my day

Reallllly don't think Phil was the driving force behind pushing Genesis towards 'pop' when Mike and Tony were the principal songwriters throughout their transitional period (and beyond)

It was totally the other guys pushing pop, after the departure of Steve Hackett. it just so happened that the band's first pop success, after Follow You Follow Me at least, was a Phil track iirc. Misunderstanding? plus his solo stuff gave him clout.

I think Follow You Follow Me was Mike-driven but a group effort

Granted 'Misunderstanding' was a hit but those three post-Hackett albums are dominated by Mike and Tony's 'pop' songs with Phil being a relatively figure

*marginal

I ignorantly just assumed it was Phil pushing the pop since he's the frontman + there's all these Genesis songs I used to think were Phil solo songs. I don't really know Genesis. I love "turn it on again", that is my jam

Yeah. Along the same lines I was baffled as a kid looking for “invisible touch” on the PC solo albums

yeah, brimstead, it wasn't Collins.

'Invisible Touch' began life much the same way as 'Turn It On Again'... as a Mike Rutherford guitar riff! This whole thing about Collins pushing the band towards "pop" is a line that's even people who are allegedly hardcore Genesis fans follow, which I've never understood.

Why would he need me to defend him? This thread makes no sense.

Problem for PC (not that it's done him much commercial harm) is that he doesn't come across as particularly likeable.
The official take on classic-era Genesis personality types is:
Rutherford: Likeable
Hackett: Likeable
Gabriel: Likeable/creative
Collins: Del-Boy
Banks: Passive-aggressive control freak

Banks is the only one that seems like an asshole.

I think the Collins bad rap came from his later solo career, actually, when he had no one to blame for his mawkishness but himself. Which maybe he always veered toward, anyway, but minus the musicianship/proggy veneer or cool spare arrangements he became mired in mushy A/C.

Reallllly don't think Phil was the driving force behind pushing Genesis towards 'pop' when Mike and Tony were the principal songwriters throughout their transitional period (and beyond)

― PaulTMA, Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:36 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was totally the other guys pushing pop, after the departure of Steve Hackett. it just so happened that the band's first pop success, after Follow You Follow Me at least, was a Phil track iirc. Misunderstanding? plus his solo stuff gave him clout.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, October 18, 2018 4:39 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Invisible Touch' began life much the same way as 'Turn It On Again'... as a Mike Rutherford guitar riff! This whole thing about Collins pushing the band towards "pop" is a line that's even people who are allegedly hardcore Genesis fans follow, which I've never understood.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, October 19, 2018 1:28 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've heard this a couple of times on ILM and it may well be true as a lot of you guys know a lot more about Collins/Genesis than I do. Still, though, as early as 1973, doesn't "More Fool Me" (Collins/Rutherford?) stand out pretty dramatically from everything else on Selling England by the Pound? I think it does anyway. And, as with brimstead, a lot of 80s-onward (esp mid-80s-onward) Genesis does seem more of a piece with solo Collins than with Gabriel-era Genesis to my ears. Afaict, he is credited as a co-writer on most or all of it. I think Turrican gave the example of solo Gabriel: to me, this is instructive because solo Gabriel (even his pop moves) does feel much more like the version of Genesis that I love responding to the 80s and 90s. Could just be that Gabriel was important enough as a frontman presence for me, more so than any of KC's singers or even Jon Anderson (whom I like a lot), idk.

Gabriel also experimented a lot and pushed boundaries, whereas Phil and Genesis, for whatever reason, established the default sound of the decade.

Well, yeah, the version of Genesis I love was one that experimented (in the broad sense) and pushed boundaries [cue argument for the boundary-pushing experimental nature of "I Can't Dance"].

That was ornery (and maybe there's a case that establishing the default sound of a decade requires pushing some boundaries) but I feel like it's something more than that as well.

We may be giving Gabriel, whom I adore, too much credit for innovation and too little credit to Genesis/Collins for hit-making.

P sure I'm the only one here who's doing that.

I do think that Collins/Genesis made some classic pop singles in the 80s, btw!

Lots of people had hits in the 80s, and Collins had a lot of them. Not many artists were as innovative and experimental as Peter Gabriel, and he still managed to have hits. I do give more credit for that, fwiw.

Again, I love Gabriel, and his hits weren't particularly innovative or experimental. Me, I don't love artists because they experiment; songs come first, and Gabriel had them for a while. Notice that with one exception his albums outsold each other through So.

I think that e.g. the 7/4 groove in "Solsbury Hill" was p creative for something that is popular enough that it could be described this way on another thread:

it's been used for so much that it barely registers as a song that can be good anymore

(I would also give credit to the makers of "In the Air Tonight" for sonic creativity.)

Nominal hits like Games Without Frontiers and Shock the Monkey are plenty weird and innovative. Even the stuff on So is kind of weird and innovative, it was just a huge smash album, so perhaps sounds less so now that it is a touchstone. I don't think that necessarily makes it better than Phil Collins pop hits, if that is your preferred thing, but it certainly makes it more compelling to me. It persists outside of its popularity, not because of it.

An album like No Jacket Required, it's sort of the apotheosis of all the things that Gabriel and Collins had been doing for the previous five years. It's not at all innovative, but it's built on the backs of many interesting innovations.

Nominal hits like Games Without Frontiers and Shock the Monkey are plenty weird and innovative.

So is 'In the Air Tonight'! I mean, the thing doesn't exactly scream "HIT SINGLE!", but it somehow was.

The thing about his cover of 'You Can't Hurry Love' is how much it sticks out like a sore thumb on Hello, I Must Be Going... the rest of the album is in competiton with Face Value as his darkest/most personal work. 'You Can't Hurry Love' feels like it was beamed in from another Collins LP entirely.

The recording of the drums in I Don't Care Anymore is incredible, starting close micd and dry then morphing into the more familiar huge room Phil sound.

In the Air Tonight is of course weird and awesome, but I want to say it's an outlier.

In hindsight, maybe Collins should have suggested that Genesis have a hiatus rather than leave the band entirely to focus on solo work. While the ...But Seriously period was successful for him, it's hard to think of how he could have kept up the same level of success in the '90s with his solo work. The hardcore Genesis fans would have continued to follow the band regardless.

pretty clearly sounds like a drum machine at the beginning of "in the air tonight", not live drums unless they are super processed

The recording of the drums in I Don't Care Anymore is incredible, starting close micd and dry then morphing into the more familiar huge room Phil sound.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, October 19, 2018 4:09 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like the snare sound on 'Another Day In Paradise', actually! The noise gate has been set to close after allowing for a little more decay on the reverb.

The beginning of 'In the Air Tonight' is a Roland CR78, yeah.

Phil's drum machine work (did he do the programming?) helped define the era as much as Jam/Lewis/Prince.

Eno (!) told me (!) that Phil told him his work with Eno was formative in that it showed him how to make an album more or less by himself.

He would have done the programming on the No Jacket Required stuff. The drum machine on 'In the Air Tonight' wasn't programmable, although you could manipulate the presets a few different ways and of course treat the output with something else afterwards, like anything.

More importantly, he knew he wanted them!

Who besides Sly Stone used them as much before him? Not many.

It's the same rhythm box used on OMD's 'Enola Gay', Ultravox's 'Hiroshima Mon Amour', several Numan tracks circa 1981-1983, and I suspect Blondie's 'Heart of Glass' ...

Same drum machine on Duke?

Genesis' 'Duchess', too.

(x-post) Yup!

i love the sound of those super early drum machines so much

I own an Ace Tone Rhythm Ace. Kind of fun to just turn it on and let it go.

oh wow i bet....that really dead, dry sound is so cool really cuts through a mix

On another hand, it just seems like sour grapes and jealousy that Collins was everywhere and super successful on a huge scale.

Er, what? Who exactly is jealous and why? Unless you're a singing drummer who used to play in a British prog rock band and had a solo career but it turned out Phil Collins was more successful than you?

Bill Bruford's still made they shelved his Stock Aitken Waterman produced solo ablum

Yeah, those early rhythm boxes sound quite organic and even kinda funky. By the time of No Jacket Required I suspect he would have been using LM1's and 909's. 'Sussudio' sounds like it has a couple of drum machines on it at once.

(xxpost)

That R&B inspired solo album by the drummer from Gentle Giant should have been smash but Collins had cornered the market. Seriously though, well not seriously at all, I think being a Tory and divorcing his wife via a fax and running off with the au pair harmed his reputation - except I think both have been debunked? Well, he did run off with the au pair I believe.

Section 5 of his enormous wiki entry is titled 'Criticism and praise' and has four subsections...

5 Criticism and praise
5.1 Critical and public perceptions
5.2 Criticism from other artists
5.3 Collins on criticism
5.4 Praise

... though it's dwarfed by the section that follows...

6 Personal life
6.1 Family
6.2 Wealth
6.3 Court case
6.4 Health
6.5 Honorary degrees
6.6 Politics
6.7 Other interests

Like few others, I would venture, he has an separate page dedicated to the lists of awards and nominations he's received, titled List of awards and nominations received by Phil Collins.

Phil's drum machine work (did he do the programming?) helped define the era as much as Jam/Lewis/Prince.

― Josh in Chicago,

He programmed and played almost every percussive element on his albums, and played most of the keyboards. It's interesting how he and Peter Gabriel have similar instrumental talents (maybe Gabriel's the better keyboardist and Fairlight programmer, idk)

The Tory thing has been debunked, I think.

He's claimed that he was so busy throughout the '80s that he didn't even vote, and he could very well have been out of the country during elections, given his schedule. I could very well believe that, actually.

Although, I'm sure some dedicated Collins/Genesis nut out there could verify whether he was on tour or not at the time.

Having tried to keep awake through a recent Genesis documentary - literally the most boring programme ever shown on BBC 4 - I'd say anyone who has to play in a band with Tony Banks deserves a medal.

God yeah what a wanker

The Tory thing has been debunked, I think.

― You like queer? I like queer. Still like queer. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, October 19, 2018 10:41 AM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he has stated that he isn't a tory and didn't leave the uk for switzerland in 1997 due to fears of a labour government - which is repeated as a fact so often in the uk that i assumed it was true until about 4 months ago

Having another listen to Hello, I Must Be Going and thinking there's so much good stuff on this: 'I Don't Care Anymore', 'I Cannot Believe It's True', 'Like China', 'It Don't Matter To Me', 'Thru These Walls', 'The West Side' ...

Been browsing his stuff on streaming services. The new covers for the remasters are really creepy somehow. Also wtf

Yeah, the No Jacket Required one particularly!

Agreed, it turns me off to the whole album

As he wrote in his book, he moved to Switzerland because his wife at the time, who he may have subsequently remarried, was Swiss, and they wanted to live near her parents.

What a happy coincidence.

Shortly before the 2005 election (when Collins was living in Switzerland), Labour supporter Noel Gallagher was quoted: "Vote Labour. If you don't and the Tories get in, Phil Collins is threatening to come back and live here. And let's face it, none of us want that."

Noel OTM?

As he wrote in his book, he moved to Switzerland because his wife at the time, who he may have subsequently remarried, was Swiss, and they wanted to live near her parents.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, October 20, 2018 12:31 AM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup - and if his wikipedia article is to be believed, then he continued to keep homes in the US and the UK, not to mention he's no longer living in Switzerland but Miami, and has done so since 2015.

Rich expats with houses lying empty for most of the years while people are sleeping on the streets, better hope Corbz doesn't win the next election.

heard "something happened on the way to heaven" in the food court the over day and it brightened my day

― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:33 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, it's a great one, that... the chorus is up there with his catchiest, I think. ...But Seriously may have been better regarded by fans of his first three albums if it had been about 15-20 minutes shorter.

And if it had been called ...Butt Seriously

I don't think you want to see his new version of that cover...

BS might be better regarded if (a) the song about homelessness wasn't the massive (b) David Crosby didn't sing on it (c) he'd included more drum machine twaddle

The segue on 'Three Sides Live' from Behind The Lines into Duchess with Phil jamming live with the faders on the CR 78 is so fucking great.

I'm listening to Wind & Wuthering again, which I suppose is considered to be the last of Genesis' true symphonic prog works, and y'know, by that stage in their career I guess they'd earned the right to do whatever the hell they felt like, individually and collectively. That both Genesis and Phil Collins ended up super-huge is just the icing on the cake, really.

the title of this thread always makes me think of 'move heaven and earth to defend the life of chairman gonzalo' - now that the Tory allegation has been debunked, ilx should start a new rumour that Phil is a maoist

I always thought the cheesy percussive synth break down in the long Tonight Tonight Tonight was Tony, cycling through presets. But the live at Wembley video shows it's Phil hitting pads. He can do better!

Air Drums.

I've always felt that if that Phil "I'm a Tory" interview existed you'd be able to find it on the internet.

The segue on 'Three Sides Live' from Behind The Lines into Duchess with Phil jamming live with the faders on the CR 78 is so fucking great.

I wish it lasted forever.

I just saw that yeah, he's sitting down a lot on this tour. I mean, this is just sad looking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhgCYbIOxms

And also no Chester on drums! (Phil's got his son playing instead.)

a disgusting display of nepotism imo

nice to see gandalf on bass tho

This is something of a theme. Jax Nielsen plays drums in Cheap Trick, Jason Bonham (obv) in Zeppelin, Max Weinberg (now in Slipknot!) sometimes played with Bruce, Jeff Tweedy's son played drums in Tweedy ... There are probably more.

Hard to top Denardo Coleman

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/6f/ca/ac6fcaaec6b081e08090b4f0c4bd9ca0.jpg

Hooky's son is playing bass in his NO review

Wolfgang Van Halen

Gandalf is Leland Sklar, just googled him HO LEE SHIT look at this guy's credits, talk about a pro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leland_Sklar

Yeah, he's a session monster. For a while Phil used Nathan East, who is even crazier busy.

yow, that's a helluva resumé alright

I quite like this home movie camcorder footage of Genesis making their self-titled album, shot by Phil...

https://youtu.be/iMm-08uZXfo

Leland Sklar is a GOD

Isn't Leland Sklar's nephew or something a long-term old school ILM poster?

just think how good Collins the drummer was that he played with Nathan East.

All anyone needs to do to hear what Collins brought to Genesis as a drummer is listen to Trespass and Nursery Cryme back to back. Or a version of 'The Knife' with Collins drumming. Collins' drumming swings and grooves more, and although his drumming is quite busy on the earlier stuff, his fills complement the material, rather than some of the lumpen, misplaced fills his predecessor does on Trespass.

When PC joined Led Zeppelin at Live Aid he has spoken about how Page tried to gaslight him before the performance.

Page asked him if he knew his cues and Collins said yeah and sang the bit prior to the guitar solo as an example and Page came back with 'No!....No!' which confused PC and put him massively on the back foot when he came to play, so he sits out that section and lets Tony Thompson completely fuck it up and then took most of the flak for the terrible performance.

For years I thought Page was a dick for doing that to Collins but after seeing this YT vid I wonder if he actually knew that it was likely going to be a car crash regardless of who was drumming, because it seems that a lot of people play that section completely wrong anyway, including Tony Thompson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlLtd19szw

Phil's book has a whole section on Zep at Live Aid. He makes a pretty convincing case that he was the only one that had any clue what was going on, exacerbated in part by drugs (Page and Thompson), general assholery (Plant), totally shitty playing and singing (Page and Plant), and a complete lack of preparation (everyone but Phil).

Here's an intriguing quote from Plant on one aborted post Live Aid reunion btw:

“As much as he wanted to do it, it wasn’t the time for Pagey to do that,” Plant said in 1988. “He had just finished the second Firm record, and I think he was a bit confused about what he was doing…We did about two days. It was a most embarrassing moment, to have all that will and not knowing what to play. Jonesy played keyboards, I played bass a bit. It sounded like David Byrne meets Hüsker Dü.”

Robert Plant playing bass? David Byrne meets Husker Du!?

Lol that it is easier to count that way. Grouping it as odd time signatures (where downbeats are accented) still makes more sense to me. His first bar is fine but placing accents on the & of 4 in the next two bars seems crazy. I'd rather count 7/8, 4/4, 9/8. 2xp

Still, good analysis/transcription

(or the version he has around 4:06 works too)

Yeah, I don't think I agree with the guy in the video that it was meticulously worked out against a strict 4/4, I reckon they felt their way through after a lot of rehearsing or perhaps JPJ comped it up like you suggest sund4r.

It's fun watching the Live Aid clip as PC momentarily down tools and wipes his face with a towel while TT crashes through the section like a drunk rhinoceros.

haha man i'm watching this now, don't know if i've ever seen the whole set

jfc jimmy page a fucking mess

every time I see this bumped it gives me the impression that Phil is being physically attacked

Plant's not in good voice either. Clearly he was unused to yelling after the moody song-poems he'd sung for two years.

yeah he sounds rough too, though it's hard not to rubberneck at page jizzing semi-random pentatonic splatter all over the walls

Jimmy Page is the worst thing about that performance, to be honest... he's completely on another planet. The solo in particular is excruciating.

Also, Phil was used to doing drum duets live onstage with Genesis by that point - the difference being him and Chester Thompson were generally better prepared!

just saw that yeah, he's sitting down a lot on this tour. I mean, this is just sad looking:

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, October 23, 2018 2:08 PM (six days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Because of his dodgy back, I think. He finds it very painful to stand for long periods, hence the seated performances.

Yeah, that's right - I've seen a couple of recent interviews where he's been medicated up to the eyeballs.

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/phil-collins2.jpg

Turns up everywhere does Phil, here he is as a blacksmith on the cover of a Planxty album.

https://shop.totallyvinyl.com/img/uploads/images/planxty/PLANXTY_COLLECTION_LP_1.jpg

Just for the sake of the few that never heard the story:

Collins’ connection with the Beatles dates back to 1964, when he was hired as an extra in their first feature film, A Hard Day’s Night. Then just 13, he spent the day alongside hundreds of fellow teenagers instructed to shout at the top of their lungs during the climactic television concert scene. Unfortunately, his musical purism ended up costing him screen time. “They wanted kids that were screaming, and I just sat still, which is probably why I was cut out of the film,” Collins told Rolling Stone in 2016. “I remember thinking, ‘For crying out loud, will you stop screaming? Let’s listen to the music!'”

His second experience with one of the Fabs was equally disappointing. In 1970 he was booked to play congas on a session for “The Art of Dying,” to be included on All Things Must Pass. “One night, our managers called me and said, ‘You want to go down to Abbey Road?'” he remembers. “I said, ‘I’m a bit busy, I’ve just had a bath.’ And they said, ‘Well, it’s for George Harrison.’ I went, ‘I’ll get a cab.’ I walked in and there was Ringo Starr, Billy Preston, Phil Spector, Klaus Voorman, Badfinger, (guitarist) Pete Drake, (Beatles road manager) Mal Evans and George. Spector was introduced in this brusque way. He was like, ‘Who is this young guy, thinks he can play with the Beatles?'”

Eager to prove his worth, the 19-year-old attacked the song with brute force during the run-throughs – and soon he had the scars to prove it. By the time the recording began, his hands were raw and he could barely play. “After 90 minutes, I had blood blisters. They took a break, and then Ringo’s chauffeur came and said, ‘You’re finished.'” The sound of congas, if they appear at all, can’t be heard on the final mix. “When All Things Must Pass came out, I looked through the credits and there was no mention of me,” he says.

Harrison himself remained unaware of Collins’ participation until 2001, when he was assembling a remastered package of the album in celebration of its 30th anniversary. He and Collins had become friendly in the intervening decades, so Harrison decided to have a little fun with the Genesis superstar. As an apology for not crediting him on the original release, he sent Collins a version of the song that he claimed featured his lost percussion contributions.

“I got a tape from George of the song that I played with the congas quite loud,” Collins told EW. “I thought, Oh, my god, this sounds terrible. In fact, it was a Harrison joke. He’d recorded (percussionist) Ray Cooper. (He said,) ‘Play bad, I’m going to record it and send it to Phil.’ I couldn’t believe that a Beatle had actually spent that much time on a practical joke for me.”

He spends about 40 minutes telling that last story in the more-Partridge-than-Partridge audiobook of his autobiography

It's a great joke

Can I just say again that I love that there's also a British filmmaker named Phil Collins trying to make very political films, and I'm just never able to take them seriously. His latest, Bring Down the Walls, about the power of house music to fight the prison industrial complex, is again very good indeed.

Two teenagers listening to Phil Collins for the first time are blown away... I ❤️ this! Phil Collins is a G... a Legend... The Truth! 💯 https://t.co/2kInJTclY7

— Cyrus McQueen (@CyrusMMcQueen) August 7, 2020

^ You can guess what's going to happen but it's still a great moment

that's cute!

early in lockdown i was walking around sadly through pandemic bedstuy and came across a group of oldder dudes smoking tons of weed and blasting the reggae cover of "one more night" from a jeep and it was the most beautiful moment, i had to stop and take it all in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Q_FlTlEoM

some "sad youtube" comments there .. catching a feeling again ... or should i say, phil-ing

lol. good stuff

Wait, the Busy Signal, balloon-man?

Great, kids. Now do it with "Don't Lose My Number."

the phil collins teens are my weekend inspiration tbh

check their "Jolene" video

I envy those kids getting to hear Phil Collins for the last time for the first time

I'm not sure I'll ever understand those reaction videos, but I do find the enthusiasm welcome. I liked the Vegas guys reacting to Rush's "YYZ."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B52bvzudAvQ

They even find a way to compare it to "Beat It."

lol with the drums

Wait, /the/ Busy Signal, balloon-man?

It hurts me when reaction channels pause the music.

We were just talking last night about how we Gen X'ers just don't get why people watch Twitch.

I think reaction videos fall into the same category. Maybe you need to have grown up with social media to be truly entertained by other people being entertained?

watching other people play video games is pretty darn relaxing

speedruns are a visceral thing

I get more insight into the music from Lost in Vegas than I do from a lot of printed music crit.

I haven't actually watched this Phil Collins thing, though.

he watched some guy let another guy drown

OK, that was definitely more basic but they have heart.

The kids with Phil Collins are the first good reaction video in history because you have the tension of knowing what's going to happen and waiting for it.

pitching a Youtube series of reaction videos to historical world events - teens see the Zapruder film for the first time!

I think reaction videos are more like unboxing videos? I do like watching speed runs and people playing video game, so my anecdotal survey of one, me, implies those are different things, but I can't say why. Maybe it's more like watching a sporting event or something?

how are GenZers so fucking chilled out and comfortable being on camera is what I want to know

It's their social life, how they communicate, afaict. Even my kids (for example) seem hyper-attuned to the nuances of presentation/selfies, and the aesthetic approach of various streamers/youtubers.

i played Sussudio to some teens and they beat the shit out of me

— blaine capatch (@blainecapatch) August 8, 2020

haha

every reaction video looks incredibly fucking fake and stupid to me, but this was alright, though it still looks fake; they swear none of them are though.

Yeah I thought it was good and seemed genuine, scrolled thru a few of their others... wondered how the tracks are chosen though? Like if they’ve truly never heard the songs, how do they know which would be good for the channel?

someone needs to do a reaction to a reaction to a reaction video sort of thing

anyways -- back to the topic at hand -- i think phil collins is on the cusp of critical recognition as a GOAT, not to the same degree as like hall and oates or steely dan but there's something about his catalog that really touches a lot of different people and features some pretty indelible all-time hooks

yeah I watched Taylor Swift's recent-ish Live Lounge & she heavily praised & played one of his songs that I'd never heard---"Can't Stop Loving You". it was ok I guess but I hadn't heard it before. now I see that before Collins it was a Leo Sager song!

watching these kids try 'superstition' for the first time is amusing
"i didn't know stevie wonder was an r&b singer or a rapper or whatever"
i agree that their repeated pausing of the song throughout is entirely reasonable cause for thoughts of murder

"isn't she love-"

'you know, I'm not really feeling this song yet. I expected something a bit more immediate"

"lyyyyyyy-"

'now I can see where this song draws its hype from. and it's about a baby or somethin? killer."

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/the-addictive-joy-of-watching-someone-listen-to-phil-collins

I've watched several of their videos in the past and enjoyed them a lot but I'm not sure why this is the one that blew up?

The Steely Dan one is ok

went to see phil collins in '82 and it was great but when he started playing "in the air tonight" he put a big spotlight on me and then the cops came and arrested me. turned out i'd murdered somebody a couple years previously and phil saw the whole thing and wrote the song about me, and i wound up doing twenty for it, so i never saw the end of the show.

the phenix horns were great that night, though.

― rushomancy, Sunday, September 13, 2015 3:10 AM bookmarkflaglink

Phil is worth it for these LOLs alone

another day in paradise?

I've watched several of their videos in the past and enjoyed them a lot but I'm not sure why this is the one that blew up?

― Gerneten-flüken cake (jed_), Sunday, August 9, 2020 11:30 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Because Something in the Air Tonight is already meme-fodder.

Something in the Air Tonight

Rare Harrison / Collins collab

lol whoops.

Can't be posted enough:

“So I went down to Abbey Road and Harrison was there and Ringo and Billy Preston and Klaus Voormann and Phil Spector, and we started routining the song,” Collins recalled in an interview with Classic Rock. "Phil Spector would say: 'Let's hear guitar and drums,' or 'Let’s hear bass and drums'. And I'm not a conga player, so my hands are starting to bleed.

"And I'm cadging cigarettes off Ringo – I don’t even smoke, I just felt nervous."

Despite two hours of Collins' enthusiastic conga contributions, it was all seemingly a wasted effort when Phil Spector asked the congas to be played – and everyone realised Collins' microphone had been turned off for the entire two hours he'd just been playing. "And just after that they all disappeared – someone said they were watching TV or something – and I was told I could go," Collins added.

"A few months later I buy the album from my local record shop, look at the sleeve notes and I’m not there. And I’m thinking: 'There must be some mistake!' But it's a different version of the song, and I’m not on it."

And just when you think it couldn’t get worse for Collins – it does.

Years later when Collins bought former F1 driver Jackie Stewarts house, it transpired that Jackie and George were friends.

"Jackie told me George was remixing All Things Must Pass," Collins continued. "And he said: 'You were on it, weren’t you?' And I said: 'Well I was there'. "Two days later a tape's delivered from George Harrison with a note saying: 'Could this be you?'"

Collins rushed off to listen to the tape, and instantly recognised what he was hearing. "Suddenly the congas come in – too loud and just awful," he said. "And at the end of the tape you hear George Harrison saying: 'Hey, Phil, can we try another without the conga player?'

"So now I know, they didn't go off to watch TV, they went somewhere and said: 'Get rid of him,' cos I was playing so badly."

But all was not as it seemed. Not long after Collins found himself on the phone to Harrison – thanks to their mutual friend Jackie – who was keen to hear if the tape had arrived.

"'Did you get the tape?' And I said: 'I now realise I was fired by a Beatle.' "And he says: 'Don’t worry, it was a piss-take. I got Ray Cooper to play really badly and we dubbed it on. Thought you’d like it!"

"I said: 'You f***ing b*stard!'"

lol. Poor Phil.

It hurts me when reaction channels pause the music.

It's necessary to avoid a copyright strike and having the video pulled down, but even that doesn't always work.

That Harrison anecdote takes up like a half-hour or so of his audiobook

It's necessary to avoid a copyright strike and having the video pulled down, but even that doesn't always work.

To me it seems quite the opposite - if I want to listen to the song played straight through I can just go do that.

Reaction videos are not a big component of my watching habits, but if the idea is to actually listen and react to and talk about music, I makes sense to pause while you talk about it - even at the level of "damn, man, that guitar tone is NASTY!" "Yeah, it's sick, bro." - rather than talk over the music and potentially miss the next interesting moment.

Lol @ Harrison punking Phil.

xp - yeah, if they just played the track straight thru while nodding their heads or something (and injecting an occasional “reaction”), I can see why it would be hard to defend as fair use.

lmao that is a great story

https://variety.com/2020/music/news/phil-collins-twins-reaction-video-in-air-tonight-hit-sales-1234730673/

But, of course, none of these charts don’t take into account the number of listens that “In the Air Tonight” is getting just from fascinated viewers enjoying Tim and Fred Williams’ reaction video — which, as of this writing, is up to 3.2 million views.

jfc hire an editor

Editors are expensive!

They should make reaction videos

Something in the Air Tonight

Rare Harrison / Collins collab

― vitreous humorist (Ye Mad Puffin)

they had to get together sooner or later, because the revolution's here

They should make reaction videos

― rob

that would be a fantastic pivot

“In the Air Tonight” currently sits at No. 3 on the iTunes song sales chart, trailing only the brand new releases “WAP” by Cardi B featuring Megan Thee Stallion and “Beers and Sunshine” by Darius Rucker.

....

Another entry in the "News items from 2020 that would make utterly no sense to a time traveler from 2010" file.

Like "President Trump denies he's involved in getting Kanye West on the presidential ballot."

Darius Rucker has been having #1 country albums since 2008

"Beers and Sunshine" was a #2 stream...

also a cure for Covid-19

-Chuck D

Because Something In the Air Tonight is already meme-fodder.

― peace, man, Monday, August 10, 2020 10:32 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

See? It continues.

Not sure who to thank for this, but it’s brilliant. Volume up. pic.twitter.com/q4OjWl4XXx

— Mark (@markaduck) August 10, 2020

While we're at it with the Phil Collins pic.twitter.com/p1HD73DY4E

— 🏳️‍🌈 BLACK LIVES MATTER 🏳️‍🌈 (@politelyviolent) August 7, 2020

I find hairy/beardy Phil endearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duq_h2aboLI

I'm gonna assume y'all have seen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=7ceT8tyxtq4&feature=emb_logo

or perhaps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ceT8tyxtq4

tipsy's clip catches an interesting moment - first, they are so totally miming that Phil starts late and (a bit too obviously) looks around in the hope that no one notices. Also lol at Mike and Tony pretending to sing backup.

Second, I am very pleased to see what must have been a pretty early live appearance of the mighty Chester Thompson. Just a few months before it would have, presumably, been Bruford.

Put well by my friend: "The best thing about these first-time videos is that they idealize how you always want someone to react when you play them a great new song."

I misread the thread title as "Defund Phil Collins" and I thought really?! I'm out.

He was, er, reacting to this, btw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XH5gXRnR2E

Man, Delp's vocals. I can't tell if Mercury in "Under Pressure" tops this in the arena rock vocalist reaching for the heavens category.

not sure about this, the prose is also annoying

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/magazine/the-racial-anxiety-lurking-behind-reaction-videos.html

We were just talking last night about how we Gen X'ers just don't get why people watch Twitch.

I think reaction videos fall into the same category. Maybe you need to have grown up with social media to be truly entertained by other people being entertained?

― enochroot

That doesn’t explain tv in japan where every show there has audience reactions.

I guess it’s like canned laughs. It heightens the “reaction” you should be feeling as an audience.

There’s no denying the Williams brothers’ charm, or the allure of Collins’s song. But is it a stretch to focus on the racial anxiety lurking behind reaction videos?

we can learn so much

Well, I have noticed that for whatever reason a lot of the reaction videos are from black listeners. But I have no idea if that's just what's being served to me.

There’s no denying the Williams brothers’ charm, or the allure of Collins’s song. But is it a stretch to focus on the racial anxiety lurking behind reaction videos?

He writes this in the penultimate paragraph, but doesn't actually "focus" on it (if he believes it's not, in fact, a "stretch"). This is the kind of piece that gestures towards a possible point without actually making it.

that's called "clickbait"

I thought it did, and it reminded me of white people on Twitter posting bug-eyed gifs of Black people for the sake of a dumb point.

i.e. I thought the piece worked. Then again, I know him well so I may have a bias.

i always get JR and JBR confused

We were just talking last night about how we Gen X'ers just don't get why people watch Twitch.

Just picking this up since Moka quoted it, but people watching Twitch is just about the only fully comprehensible part of modern weirdness for this Generation X'er. A big part of the 80s for me was standing round in the arcade waiting my turn/watching other people's turns. One of the first things I remember doing when YouTube came along was looking at videos of 80s videogames I could never complete being completed. So this stuff seems totally natural.

this video rules

At some point in the 80s, I stumbled across Chester Thompson. He was backing Frank Zappa at the time but he was so good he wound up getting tapped to tour with Phil Collins' drumming-centric solo tours. https://t.co/IA0q2uukJ2

— Timothy Hensley (@geistweg) September 1, 2020

Yeah Thompson was/is a fine musician in his own right, as well as a very skilled interpreter of Collins's drumming. I understand that he didn't audition - Collins just called him up and asked, and he had that gig (Genesis/Collins) for like 30 years. There are a lot of really good drummers who wouldn't have fit as well in the role. Bill Bruford is good, but too different in style.

Anyway, map, I've watched that clip several times before and it's very satisfying. A couple things stand out.

At the beginning, Chester is playing that tuned-percussion ostinato live, with a real instrument, whereas it was most assuredly programmed on the record. I guess it makes sense that a band of that size, in a live setting, might not want to be chained to a sequencer. A human performer can adjust. It's cool, but almost sad when he stops playing it. (Could no one else on that stage have played it?)

The main floor-tom-based line is Very Phil; Chester is so focused on bringing it across with power. Mad respect, but there is also a longer, more sneaky fill (phill?) that starts on the higher toms and crosses the bar line - it's the one that ends on the china cymbal. The recording has it like twice; Thompson pulls it out rather more often - but with such assurance that the overall pulse never wavers.

And - BONUS SKLAR!

The Sklar the merrier.

There are few drummers quite as melodic as Phil Collins.

"Feed The World (Do The Know Its Christmas?)" is on a whole nother indefensible level but... I always liked Collins' drum track. There's a clip of him recording the final segue out of the bridge into the final chorus/outro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeZnZfxGKvg

Always loved the sound of those big bottomless Gretsch toms.

He used to be a Premier guy (same concert tom configuration and everything)...not sure why he switched to Gretsch.

He has such a great sound and approach, but watching him sit with his shoulders slumped, arrrg, Phil, sit up straight! Otherwise, you’ll have major back problems in the ‘00s!

That "Do They Know It's Christmas" song was apparently a first take from Phil!

I think it was because of ilx - maybe this thread, I dunno - that I bought (and even freaking READ) his cutesy-poo autobiography.

And I'm not even mad.

Dude is, probably, corny and choochy as fuck. But in his prime(s) he certainly brought something. That "something" will always be bracketed by "if you like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing you will like."

He has been supremely lucky, but to deny that he was gifted is churlish in the extreme.

I put his 80s ubiquity - and the reason why people got sick of sight of him - is that he just never said “no” to anyone. And was generally an affable guy who got on well with pretty much everyone inside the industry

(Granted, the Genesis and solo stuff is on him, for better or worse)

xpost I mean, you sort of hit on it inadvertently.

But in his prime(s) he certainly brought something.

And what was it someone observed/noted about Genesis? How each album sold more than the one that came before it? That's a pretty impressive feat.

Sorry to have put it that way, Josh. I shouldn't have taken the diminishing tone - I totally stan for phil as an artist and musician.

That downplays so much! In his prime he: played with Genesis, sang with Genesis, had a solo career,

Imagine how insane his resume would have looked if in addition to all of the above he also joined the Who and Zeppelin. Though I guess he did sort of do the latter.

I think he mentions in his memoir that Eric Clapton really had no idea who he was or that he was already a successful musician when he hired him, just that he was a good drummer and neighbor.

this is pretty intense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYV6KZpnEak

It might not be him that needs the defense:

https://boingboing.net/2020/10/20/phil-collins-ex-wife-has-allegedly-taken-over-his-mansion-with-armed-guards.html

Then in August, Cevey broke up with Collins again via text message, informing him that she had apparently gone to Vegas and married a businessman / musician 15 years her junior.

And now — according to a lawsuit filed by Collins — Cevey and her new husband, Tom Bates, are allegedly living in his $33 million dollar Miami beachfront mansion. And they've hired four armed guards to protect them. According to the Miami Herald:

The new couple are "threatening, implicitly and explicitly, to prolong their unlawful occupation of the property through force," the filing states. "An injunction is urgently needed to end an armed occupation and takeover of the Phil Collins home by his ex girlfriend and her new husband, the defendants in the action."

Ouch.

stay away from the pool

think twice

hello I must be staying

The People's Republic of Phil Collins's Mansion will not go down without a fight.

eh

I don't care anymore

He has a bunch of houses tho

Sounds like he's less worried about the house itself and more about the irreplaceable instruments and awards in it, which, I mean seems fair to be concerned about as a musician?

we always need to hear both sides of the story

another day in paradise

(Baby)Mama, please

Welcome to the home by the sea

Homeless (“Another Day in Paradise” demo)

She seems to have that invisible security force, yeah

Don't Change My Numbers

Take My Home

Dance Into The Litigation

Folks, let's not jump to any conclusions about this story. We don't know the whole situation...

I mean...

There must be some misunderstanding

but this is the world we live in!

It's always the same, it's just a shame

I think an amicable settlement of this is... against all odds.

I hear he’s living in a Stu-stu-studio.

Take My Home

― PaulTMA, Wednesday, October 21, 2020 2:20 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

the winner

I think a pretty solid defense of phil is that we have collectively spent 18 hours riffing on this, drawing on a pretty deep storehouse of memorable lyrics and song titles from 30 years or so, without much effort. Even if you hate him or think he's corny, the dude has left a pretty sizable cultural footprint.

Phil's great. His memoir is heavily and unintentionally Partridge, imo.

Subpoena's Ready

Joking aside, can't help but feel awful for Phil what's happened to him in recent years. This latest development is just.... fuck's sake.

it's going to end pretty badly for his ex-wife

lol but seriously

ok now we're in too deep here, c'mon guys

To think she could be in his house now just trashin' the camp.

in a moment he'll be on his knees

Well, what did he expect, now that they're living separate lives?