100 best scottish albums according to the scotsman

And the Trash Can Sinatras were only at number 89 :(

I think basically someone sat down and named all the Scottish acts they could remember, constructed a story about how Lloyd Cole counts when they couldn't think of any more and then randomly assigned numbers to them. Where the fuck were the Delgados?

Plus if Lloyd Cole and Garbage count as Scottish, then we should have Rod Stewart, Cream and Dare era Human League.

wot, no momus?

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/review.php?ID=1388

Primal scream released their first song in 1982, how come they formed in 1984, two years after that...very strange.

i picked this up on the NewsNow news feed last Thursday [and then linked to it on my blog]

both are incorrect. the first release was "all fall down" in 1985. but they formed and recorded the unreleased "the orchard" in 1983.

: )

BTW Dave Q's "analysis" is utter bollox, since Scots drink loadsa a beer in addition to whisky!!! The real reason Scottish rock appears awful is because it isn't really, but it's filtered through the Scottish media, which really is awful as far as music coverage is concerned. Most of the coverage is in the "entertainment/arts" sections of newspapers, and tends to be written either by Bobby Blandout or Gerald Hipster types!!!! The latter tend to piss off to the NME or grow into the former!!!!! Imagine a rock landscape shaped by the music section of the Sunday Times Review, and you have an idea of how crap the Scottish media is!!!!!!!!

1982 :

http://www.soulsaw.com/pleasantly-surprised/ps001.htm

1984Two tracks on this :

http://www.soulsaw.com/pleasantly-surprised/ps003.htm.

CUT magazine circa 1987.

Scotland's current music scene is documented by

Is this music?
http://www.isthismusic.com/

compiling a list of "the best" Scottish albums is about as daft an idea as collecting bus tickets, but if it has to be done then leaving out Rod Stewart seems a bit perverse to me

Only 6 albums from before 1970, which either shows how non-rockist the Scotsman is, or else that Scottish music was really really shit in the 1960s.

Actually I wrote for the Herald, not the Scotsman. And my editor was Pat Kane, who is in the list. As is my cousin in Del Amitri. Apparently I'm just not good enough. Or not Scottish enough -- less Scottish, it seems, than that sassenach Lloyd Cole. Huh! It's pretty fucking ironic, because my forthcoming album 'Summerisle' is the most Scottish-sounding record since 'The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter'. It's also a fuck of a lot better than anything Primal Scream ever made. These blinkered bigots will be forced to recant.

The only decent Scottish publication IMHO >>> was
CUT magazine circa 1987.

George, do you think "Don't You (Forget About Me)" - or "Waterfront" at the earliest - was their first single?

BTW I've just remembered that a surprising amount of the bootleg DJ producers (eg Freelance Hellraiser, McSleazy) are actually Scottish!!!! The first regular bootleg night outside London was actually in Glasgow AFAIK... Again, where's the flipping Scotsman when it comes down to what's actually going on in Scottish music>!!??!?!

Haha! Well I used to have those cassettes - some good stuff on them.

**doesn't Dr C rate "I See The Rain", or am I remembering this wrongly? **

No you are right - I do. The mighty Marmalade did many fine psych-lite tracks IMO, but the albums aren't that good. Too much filler. So I won't insist that they should have been in this silly list.

But I DO insist that The Wake should have been in there with 'Harmony'.

The comments about the glorious Altered Images later work in the blurb for Happy Birthday hurt me in my heart.

I like the way N. takes something I already said about a dozen posts further up and makes like it's his own.

What is wrong with this list is that it has chuffing Texas' shitey stadium rock stuff much higher up than Southside from when they were quite good. And that people think that the Proclaimers are a joke band just because they have accents (I'm presuming it's not from having listened to their music to any degree).

Ha, that explains why the Scotsman blanked you. I was sure it was the Scotsman which my old man buys, but if anyone's going to know it'll be you. My memory plays tricks on me as I get older.

I imagine it coincided with him being born.

When Drummond was 15, he lived in a council house in Corby, in the East Midlands. He was born in South Africa, where his father, a Church of Scotland missionary, was working, and proudly recounts that his first words were in Xhosa, the language of the Bantu people.

Mythmaking or not, corby is a mental place.
Near leicester, its full of scottish migrant workers who settled there in the 50s & 60s. The kids grow up with scottish accents, and the local Our Price has the scottish top 20 prominently displayed. (i was brought up in glasgow and found corby to be v. weird...)

William E. Drummond was born in South Africa in 1953 but he grew up in Galloway and Corby in the borders of Scotland.

So Corby has now moved to Scotland, which explains a lot. I still maintain this all makes him Scottish.

As Nice N' Sleazy is always packed on a Friday anyway, that's rather meaningless.

Anyway, I'm sure Nice 'n' Sleazys are not too worried about whether someone considers their packed house "meaningless" or not!!! And Freelance Hellraiser's "A Stroke of Genius" is not half bad for the work of a "talentless hack"- I'd like to see you do better!!!!

Oh no, Pat Kane - the man who makes me glad I don't live in Scotland anymore.

Anyway, we the people of the East Midlands hereby claim Bill Drummond as our own.

The Corby situation is, I believe, immortalized in the Big Country classic, 'Steeltown'.

I'm not typing the rest in.

11 Texas
12 Mull Historical Society
13 Big Country
14 Snow Patrol
15 Franz Ferdinand
16 Bis
17 Deacon Blue
18 Fish
19 Jesus and Mary Chain
20 Mogwai

See also:
Franz lead Brit Awards shortlist - 11 Jan 05 | Entertainment
Belle and Sebastian tell stories - 18 Jun 02 | Entertainment
Singer quits Belle and Sebastian - 05 Jun 02 | Entertainment
Brits boost for Belle and Stevie - 19 Feb 99 | Entertainment

2003 and 2004 a slow time for scottish music i see...

whither the pastels?

above, er, the blue nile!

hoo, lists. dontcha love 'em?

(and I speak as part of the menko internet team that helped to make B&S win the Brit award for best newcomer whenever it was and cause Pete Waterman to launch a fraud inquiry)

Respect the 90s musical heritage ffs. If this was a "songs played loud on car stereos in midlothian" poll Scott Brown would be at number 1.

Fair point. The Scotland Today report about the Brits on the B&S DVD is hilarious. "Previously unknown" or something. Reporting Scotland was even worse - they interviewed Murdoch, but they didn't actually feature any clips of the music! How are people supposed to judge if they're any good or not. Hmph! Then they cut to some Napier music students, who were making the worst kind of jazz-funk blandness that music students tend to make. The guitarist (stupid "punk" hair, ghastly open necked, multi-coloured shirt, large wooden crucifix) bemoaned the fact Wet Wet Wet weren't higher (they were four! That's already far too high!). They only counted down from 4, thinking the young folk will be going wtf if they show ALex Harvey. Fules!
The papers aren't too bad these days (Sunday Herald has raised the bar, despite the editorial obsession with Travis) but the TV news remains utterly clueless. It's not just with music, but arts as a whole. The arts correspondants probably know their stuff, but they're clearly told by their editors not to confuse people.

you might think that. i couldn't possibly comment.

it's a very, very difficult issue and one i'm not going to get into on a public forum :0

the whole SH arts operation (graeme, andrew, leon) is superb ... but then i would say that, wouldn't i?

We used to have a Leon at work. Actually, his name wasn't Leon, but he was a genuine pig farmer.

Dadaismus, if you listen to Vic Galloway's program on air, which is available on the internet, the guy from the List explains the "logic" they used to come up with the list, i.e. why Snow Patrol are on there. Talking Heads entered my head at that point, but no mention. Basically, they just made it up as they went along, which is pretty much as I would have done; except, I wouldn't have had Wet Wet Wet on the list.

Vic was great and managed to slip in John Martyn, Karl Denver amongst others; people that weren't on the list.

Available until Monday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/musicscotland/air/

Why? I fear Lena Zavaroni may not be able to take part.

I take it this Middle of the Road thing is just some sort of daft publicity stunt on their part.

There was a great news article in News of the World when B&S won a brit award about how Stuart was still working as a janitor, it was entitled "Chirpy Chirpy Sweep Sweep".

I had a single of "Tweedle Dee Tweedle Dum" when I was a kid.

So like... first there was a mention, then there is no mention, then there is?

Well at least he has ditched them rather than write them himself, given his error-strewn front page article when Belle and Sebastian won their Brit.

"Did you see Billy Sloan on Scotland Today? He bemoaned the lack of midge Ure then he said that he couldn't understand why Bis were there as they hadn't sold many records and Aereogramme are on the list and they've sold even less. Arf arf. I mean by those criteria Mr Blobby would be number one. (i have it on good authority that Mr Blooby is Scottish)"

For our non-Scottish readers, Billy Sloan is Scotland's self-styled greatest rock critic (he writes for the Daily Record and Sunday Mail), and a tireless champion of black denim sporting Caledonian bombast from Deacon Blue to Runrig. I saw him at Optimo watching Franz Ferdinand in summer 03. He didn't hang around for the dancing.
His slots on the news are hilarious. He once reviewed Ian Wright's single on Scotland Today saying, "He's a rapper, he's not a singer, but I think the young people will like it." Roffle.

As for AC/DC, Vic Galloway reckons they should be in. 3 of em born in Scotland. Bon Scott was born in Kirriemuir! But I suppose they've never really worked in SCotland, unlike Snow Patrol, who aren't going to be moving away from here. Still, the DC>>>>>>>>>>>>>Snow Patrol to infinity.

I'm unsure as to how Snow Patrol are considered a Scottish band. They might live here, but then the same is true of countless Scottish bands who moved to London, where the streets are paved with gold.

But yes, Snow Patrol shouldn't be mentioned in the same. Sentence as AC/DC.

I'll find it hard to ever think of Men at Work as Scottish, what with phrases like "Down Under" and "Vegemite Sandwich" etc. going round my head!

Or is it simply a case of the Scottish media adopting the band as one of their own so they can get a piece of the action?

Stuart Murdoch and Chris Geddes have just been on Off the Ball on Radio Scotland cashing in on their new-found fame, and have been treated with total indifference by the presenters, affecting silence whenever any of the callers praised Belle and Sebastian, assuming that anyone who knows anything about them is (a) a friend of the band or (b) a stalker, that sort of thing. It was a bit pointless.

and in that one word you encapsulate the entire problem. no need to look any further for your analysis. a modest, unassuming band with modest, unassuming fans. putting on my journalist's hat, i'd say the problem with that is you just can't make it interesting.

putting on my rock hat again, i'd say the problem with that is it just isn't interesting.

there's also a preciousness about B&S that really bugs me. they mooch about being all shuffly and self-deprecating (cf also the pastels), but then get incredibly pissy when people don't treat them like gods. at the leaving party for andrew jaspan, erstwhile editor of the aforementioned sunday herald, stuart and stevie were asked to play a couple of songs: andrew is a die-hard fan, and the sunday herald has done more than any other mainstream paper to support them.

they did one and a half numbers, then quit in a huff. the official reason was that the sound wasn't good enough, but it didn't bother the other band ... the impression everybody else in the room had was that the boys had taken the hump because we weren't paying attention.

now, i'm sorry: i was there to wish farewell to my former boss, not to listen to a band i don't even like very much. i certainly wasn't going to drop everything and stare agog while they strummety-strummed their way through a selection of mediocre indie anthems.

it's this attitude, this preciousness, this odd mixture of aloofness and shyness that really prevents me from liking them. that said: "the boy with the arab strap" (the album, not just the song) will always have a very special place in my heart.

How do you do that! In all honesty though, that's pretty small potatoes next to say, Elton John, who I love in places. Do you let people's behaviour put you off liking someone in general.

I bet OMD behave like twats sometimes!

Why? His days of the NME were filled with his writing the most tedious tosh about "rockism" that make the people using the term on ILM seem reasonable and well balanced. He could write up a storm if he was covering Womack and Womack or other mid 80s mainstream American r'n'b but his ability to cover anything featuriing white people or guitars was abysmal.

Anyway, Scotland music then. Strange list, very little 60s stuff, Marmalade surely were pretty populat from the Scottish beat boom. Only Nazareth for 70s rock then, no Frankie Miller, Stone the Crows...

What is remembered from the punk / post punk era is odd too. No Josef K, Scars, Flowers, Positive Noise. C86 is odd too, The Pastels but no BMX Bandits?

I'll have to read this to believe it. You lot must have good memories. I remember the bloke, but can't remember anything about his writing.

I love Marmalade.

Hi Sandy.

My exasperation at dance music fans trotting out the rockism cliche is that as far as I'm concerned Cosgrove won the debate about 20 years ago, but hes an ungracious winner and it is no at all suprising that Cosgrove treats B&S with dismissive contempt.

Actually I've just noticed that the post I wrote where I said that has been swallowed by the interweb. What I said, kind of, was that I'd expect tosspottery from Tam Cowan, as ignorance of anything going on outside Motherwell and the SPL is his schtick. Also I said maybe they are that shit to all their guests but I just never noticed as my hackles are instantly raised when people get lamped into B&S in a way that I don't usually get when Cosgrove and Cowan direct their ignorance and stupidity at the likes of Sandy Clark and Jimmy Calderwood. (Scottish football managers, for those following this thread that have no idea what this Off the Ball diversion is - it's a football show with occasional studio guests who have something to say about football. Murdoch once paid for a www.belleandsebastian.co.uk advertising hoarding behind the goal at Somerset Park, Ayr, therefore is on a par with Wet Wet Wet in terms of subsidising shitey wee teams).

it's not just about that incident, though. it's about the weird B&S dichotomy: on the one hand they're this strangely unassuming band, on the other they seem to think they've got an automatic right to be loved. i just don't get it. to be honest, i think i'd like them a lot more if they had some balls about them (which sir elt most certainly does). i'd have been a lot more impressed if they'd actually kicked the fuck off at us at the SH party and called us all cocks; as it was, they just looked like huffy teenagers.

and god yes, OMD could be right wankers from what i've heard ;0

You can vote here

DAMIEN RICE

A public vote for the top 100 Scottish albums. The writers got to choose last issue and now we've got the punters' choice. I think there has been some organised voting - Peeps Into Fairyland at number 8?! Wtf?
Teenage Fanclub's Grand Prix no1, Franz at no2, while the writers list wasn't numbered.