The Last Word on the Darkness hopefully

The Darkness are a pop band who use the language of metal, perhaps?

I don't understand reviews that lay down the law on the correct way to sing 'fuck' -- is this a new critical method?

they probably have girlfriends at home named Kate or Zoe who got them on all those magazine covers in the first place

I'm trying to think of Real Bands who don't Play the Game here, or have like middle class named girlfriends... um?

that review rocked so hard. i feel like i've just listened to ac/dc. the darkness must go away, obviously.

sonny.

i've been forwarding that review all morning. it's the equivalent of ian astbury's BABY BABY BABYs on electric.

nick, what's it like having to speak out of your arse all the time? must get difficult and sad.

sonny

Huh? Sad guy. Is there a charity set up where you can go and get help?

it's obvious that small town pregnant teens are harvesting the next breed of stripper girlfriends for metal bands!!!

enrique, go to a rural town where some of these metallers are trying to get famous. no smirk to be found!!! dave q you should star in the next decline and fall of western civilisation. what happened to 'logan' - that one band, where the senior and the stripper were chanting their name. the query being - does dave q find these metal bands truly good and interesting or ironic?

insane? it's called being interesting, nick. something you won't know anything about, obviously. but that is 'o.k.'

White American Surburban People? - the fact that you felt the need to quantify/qualify what i said - ends the argument for me.

A small town like Lowestoft? I'm talking UK here. I've never met a person who really really took metal (or 'gangsta rap') seriously.

(ps Nick - yer lack of imagination bogs you down - that's 'o.k'

every metal guy belong in a 'say you love satan' band or gang.

I've never met these people, but also that wave of metal was what? 20 years ago? I'm talking pop fans (= teenagers, primarily) in the nineties/nowties.

The Darkness is similar -- to me, their stuff has little relation to the 'Animal (Fucks Like A Beast)'-type metal (that I was exposed to), and far more to the Et. There is, I'll admit, more of a smirk here, but far less than with 'proper' metal.

This probably stems from my knowing very little about metal (which I wd attribute to its image problem, and that of its fans).

please don't blame metal fans for your ignorance.i had nothing to do with your not hearing heavy metal.

I'm not blaming metal fans for my not knowing, it was a choice.

Memo: idea for new thread - All Musicians Are Dicks

ok dave if you say so :-)

ha ah. the question being how is bob stanley not a dick. ha.

i don't think ppl give a shit if the music is good (I might be watching sunburned hand of man tonight and did anyone read that interview with him in the wire? the guy came across as a complete idiot but it just won't matter if they are good). also taking things like gangsta rap/metal seriously or not is a ridiculous thing to say.

This is well obv, quite frankly.

he rocks up to '68/69 of course!

Well, I was channeling how I felt at 16, so... round then I guess. Also, it's not a phrase repeated as much as MUVVAFRUCIKN ROXXXX etc etc in CTCL or whatever, so, maybe it gets tiresome slower.

I ask a lot of music, I just have no problem with people who don't think that loving their music ET style makes their fondnesspassion/whatever for music significant at all.

You mean like David Keenan or something?

maybe not pop records. i wouldn't know.

Btw -- I only read ILX these days, I did read CTCL initially, I certainly don't read the indie press, cos I don't like indie.

dave q OTM (again!). I don't read metal or rawk publications but find it hard to believe they can be obseqious, non-judgemental or hyperbolic as much of the "indie"/"alternative" press

"This sucks, you're an idiot, that did it better years ago" - instant 'piss off Grandad'. It's like all the old punks tearing their hair out over Sum 41 - achieves fuck all except making the old punks feel righteous.

They dressed in novelty Eurovision-style gear though!

Dave Q, what would be the point in making a carbon copy of the 80s hair metal bands if they already existed? The Darkness are a fine pop/rock band who just happen to be INFLUENCED by The Cure, Judas Priest, Def Leppard etc. Same as Outkast are influenced by Run DMC, or whatever. It doesn't mean they have to live up to every single heavy metal cliche in the world. If you are that bothered about whether something is *ahem* "fake metal* (as you put it, although I think you mean "false metal"), then why not just listen to Burzum and be done with it? Then you know you've got the real thing right there.
However, if you want some decent, singalong rock tunes in a style that not a lot of pop bands are doing right now, then you have the Darkness.
And yes, the riffs are good - I know they are. I've always been dubious of all these "the" bands and I had no intention of taking the slightest bit of notice about these. But fuck me, I found myself ashamed to admit that this album fucking rocked. I like Judas Priest and Manowar; I am partial to Emperor and Rhapsody and Empyrium; but yeh, I can forget all that and rock out to the Darkness. Better than trying to convince myself bands like Staind and Linkin Park are supposed to be good.

Alex in NYC to thread!

However, if you want some decent, singalong rock tunes in a style that not a lot of pop bands are doing right now, then you have the Darkness.

In an era where an entire century of recorded music exists to be listened to at will and whim whenever and however you want, from all over the world, the idea of needing something from 'right now' is utterly irrelevant EXCEPT if you want to feel a specific social connection to now for whatever reason, ie what's in the charts, who's playing on the mass festival bill you're going to, who's on the magazine covers. That may be important but it doesn't seem like you're actually praising the music so much as its context -- and THAT may be important too.

Look, what Dave Q is saying in his (scabrously funny) article is what I've been saying as well the last couple of days -- namely, if you like the Darkness you'll probably REALLY love (x, y, z, any list of bands and songs). Arguing that 'it was all better back in my day' may be a grandad's argument that gets you nowhere and just pisses off yer opponent, but COUNTERARGUING 'I don't need to hear all that other stuff to know this is all I will ever want or even care for' is pretty damn lame. To Tico's credit, he started that separate C90 thread, specifically explaining what he liked about the Darkness and asking for references that would fill that bill -- whether or not he likes it all will of course be his decision but the point is he's willing to give it a go.

Do you *really* think that?

we're not talking "shania t-shirt" levels of comedy gold, but getting there.

Haha nice backtrack

Anyway, I'm nabbing that line of my metaller homie. They do sound quite similar in the grand scheme - mewling singer, noisy guitars, horrible 80s production...

Ned, it is important. There's a whole 10 years generation out there who don't know nuffink about guitar solos, falsetto screams, long hair etc. All they have is over grown teenage men in baggy pants whining about how their parents never gave them enough money, or whatever.
If all you expect is a stylistic anachronism from the Darkness, then you are missing the point. All you are doing is laughing at the cheesiness of it all, as if the whole thing's a pantomime, and I personally believe there's more to the Darkness than that. Sure, there's a little irony, but as another thread said - every band is a comedy band. From the early nineties onward, we have been used to taking our music so seriously. Can you imagine "groove is in the heart" or "tricky disco" getting in the charts now? no because they take the piss too much - they aren't proper, even for pop. but they are still good fun songs. same as the darkness's output. the whole album (apart from friday night, and the last track) is rock'n'roll indulgence at it's best. maybe not metal, but certainly a lot of fun.

I draw parallels with hiphop here. Nu-Metal = the dark days of hiphop in the mid nineties. It looks like the Darkness may be the ignition toward something newer and better, so long as we don't get tons of Darkness rip-off bands, which would be, admittedly tedious.

Metal is about escapism - does it really matter about where you're from? As far as anyone's concerned, the darkness could be from the planet Rockon. Whether they come from London or not I don't care, they can't help that.

agreed. the marvellous 'friday night' always made me think that the Hawkins brothers might probably more at home practicing their guitar poses or playing dungeons & dragons than scoring supermodels at aftershows or some such; more Brian May than Tommy Lee.

The songwriting, particularly with respect to chord progressions and riffs, is MUCH more complicated with GNR than it is for Nirvana. Also, Kurt's guitar effects are much messier and less crisp than Slash's guitar effects AND point me at the Nirvana song that contains a guitar solo with a note duration shorter than an eighth note.

You might as well say "Well, Palestrina and Webern aren't that different," or "Scooter and Plastikman aren't that different." All you're doing is showing off your ignorance/inability to distinguish one sound from another.

I can't be bothered to read this thread in its entirety. Is it as good as the one we hijacked with Techno Roy Keane impressions?

anyway, i have thus returned to my true self, to get the c.i.a. off my back.

ironically, much of The Darkness's first huge groundswell of support came from their gigs supporting Def Leppard earlier this year, people who do have metal heritage...

Oh please. We KNOW why, Tico said as much on his cassette thread! He likes the showmanship, the audacity, the tunes, etc. Some of us are coming along and saying, in various ways and means, "You know, here's a bunch of other stuff like them that they obviously like in turn which you might like as well," and you're doing your damnedest to avoid the obvious conclusion that if something gives you joy something else along the same lines might also give you joy. Which makes sense if you're a Puritan, but I rather hope you're not.

Xpost with Stevie just now! For fuck's sake, I said on the other thread that if you liked the Darkness you might well LURV Def Leppard. So get off yer damned high horse and download "Photograph" or "Pour Some Sugar on Me" or "Hysteria" or "Rocket." You might find you actually like the fucking things! And if you hate 'em and prefer the Darkness, that's cool too.

dude, i loved Def Leppard; they're recent stuff has been draedful though. and i loved Queen, too, but The Miracle was the last album they made that had anything i even vaguely loved. for me, The Darkness tickle the spots those bands used to reach.

There's a whole 10 years generation out there who don't know nuffink about guitar solos, falsetto screams, long hair etc.

So Dog Latin, you're saying that an entire generation down to the last person never watches 'where are they now?' programs, never hears oldies radio, doesn't stumble across websites, have no older brothers and sisters with old videotapes of things, etc. This makes about as much sense as me getting into music in the eighties and somehow never hearing about Led Zeppelin or make-up era Kiss.

I understand the rhetorical point you're trying to make and why you're making it, and I see your [and Tom's and Enrique's] huge 'you can't be RATIONAL about it' argument. But jeez louise, the amount of po-faced argument y'all are making *in support* of the Darkness is really head-scratching.

this reminds me of the melody maker, where we were told we couldn't refer to artists who existed before 1990 because 'the kids' didn;t care about them and wouldn't know who they were (this was 1997)... which was bullscrap, since the teenagers i knew and loved back then were deep in to 1960s psyche and funk and spent all weekend high at rare groove and retro clubs dancing till they bled.

we made the references anyway, but often the subs would blunder in... had a reference to Isaac Hayes changed to Barry White once (this was pre-South Park, obv)...

New single debuted in the UK at #6 and got them on Top of the Pops, album debuted at #2 in the UK and top 20 in the US, all very good numbers. Sorry, that's not going to fly.

OTFuckingM. In my case about six months back in 1988.

Look, what Dave Q is saying in his (scabrously funny) article is what I've been saying as well the last couple of days -- namely, if you like the Darkness
you'll probably REALLY love (x, y, z, any list of bands and songs).

Name ONE Iron Maiden chart hit in the US.

i thought that was the whole point! Nobody's going to sit listening to the Darkness going "Oh ya, how futuristic!". Even a six year old would know that and so do the darkness. it's a bit of a revival and as with all revivals they're not always as good as the real thing. The Darkness have made 1 album and Iron Maiden have a zillion and 3 on last count, so of course Def Leppard and Iron Maiden are going to sound better, what with Pyromania being the biggest selling album evah or whatevah.
Then again I could diss Iron Maiden and Def Leppard as false metal pussies, saying that they rip-off Judas Priest et al, but I won't.

Oh go on

Hold on, this is an assumption on your part. Why couldn't the Darkness be better than the 'real' thing? It all comes down to the individual listener.

Did most of that neverending thread just fall out of your head or something?

Yeah, those first few Subway Sect singles rock my motherfuckin' world. Oh you mean Jean-Luc? Fuck that gaseous old fraud.

I probably wd enjoy it, but... what can you do? It's a shallow world. I get pissed off that Tarantino fans don't know their Godard.

Yes but -- compare how much relative time/effort it takes to scare up five specific films to watch all the way through vs. how long it takes to download and listen to, say, five three-minute songs. Your philosophical point is taken but In This Modern World, the ability to find out more and more immediately for this specific medium is child's play. So since you probably *would* enjoy it, off ya go. Set some stuff to download while you listen to the Darkness album again if you like and then check back!

(Actually he doesn't, because the only person who bothered to base his opinion on the actual film was Girolamo, so never mind.)

Did most of that neverending thread just fall out of your head or something?

Hell yeah! I'm not doing this for posterity. I'm trying to work out how I feel. My actual writing process is Kubrickian-Flaubertian [only deeply, deeply middlebrow]. This is fun!

I was anti-Kill Bill and pro-Darkness. I'm just being contrary.

Ah well, then see if Jel on that C90 thread will make you a copy of what he's making Tom. There are always ways!

See, when you check that thread very casually while on vacation, you forget who hated what.

WISE WORDS.