Don't even try to defend Stevie Ray Vaughan, ILM -- tear his oeuvre/legacy apart and throw it to the dogs

Also, if I have the "Stevie Ray Vaughn's version of 'Little Wing' is SO MUCH BETTER than Jimi's" coversation one more time I'm gonna pull a Joe Pesci from Casino on somebody's fucking neck.

I'm guessing he would have gone down a Clapton trail, perhaps producing "Pilgrim"-ish hackwork that Rolling Stone would praise blindly.

That said, I really do enjoy "The Sky Is Crying" and he was a great player. But I haven't listened to that in years.

I have far more problems with Eric Clapton who, alas, is still very much alive. If Clapton is God, then God is very, very boring.

But then, who ARE we calling great "soulful/expressive" guitarists here??

BTW: i don't think he's as bad as this thread makes him out to be.

Wes Montgomery??

He loved not wisely but too well.

Everyone else is sort of poking at the phenomenon of the man himself, his "influence", etc. You know, the usual ILM spiel. Anyway, he's far from my favorite blues player. But he'd probably be somewhere in the lower reaches of a top 50. It's helpful to think of him as coming out of that lineage of great and yes, flashy, Texas electric blues players - guys like T-Bone Walker, Freddie King, Albert Collins. King and Collins in particular never being known for the economy of their playing.

But then you'd have to give a rat's ass about blues music to care.

And really, speaking of contemporary players, Buddy Guy is just as bad as Vaughan in terms of over-playing, and I love him. But we probably wouldn't get a "defend Buddy Guy" thread on ILM. I actually would have been curious to see what Vaughan would have done - to see if he would have tried to challenge himself, maybe make a grimy, gut-bucket record like Guy's Sweet Tea release.

Sure, I definitely like him best when he plays slower - check that extended cover of "Tin Pan Alley" - or in a more jazzy vein ("Stang's Swing" or "Lenny"). And I still enjoy his early self-penned hit "Cold Shot". It has a nice loping swing and a cleaner guitar tone; it wouldn't have sounded out of place on ZZ Top's best record, Deguello.

You're not missing much, Scott. Dozens of gear reviews in which nothing can ever be condemned. Dozens of write-ups of "guitar
bands" in which the writer struggles to say something wildly
enthusiastic about a collection of talking/singing turds who coincidentally play guitars because everyone between the age of 10 and 30 is now or will be in a rock band.

A couple features on the same ten stars -- half of whom must either
be dead or dieing -- over and over because the only thing that
reliably sells the mags are pics of Jimmy, Jimi, Stevie or Eddie
on the cover.

Transcriptions of popular hard rock and metal songs, complete with
how to set up your computerized axe widget, so you can sound
-exactly- like your idol except without the talent.

A few guest columns by celebrity or fringe-but-allegedly-hip
guitarists who cannot write so someone on the staff ghosts as
them.

Superciliousness appropriate to the subject and times = outlawry in guitar mags.

ugh, gygax! OTM. Also, I fucked up - Vaughan didn't actually right "Cold Shot", it was a cover.

I think he has a really strong singing voice though for sure, unfortunately in a singing style that I dislike 99% of. Growl grumbly growl.

Again, I probably would be more tolerant of this feller's music had I not had to perform the fucking DUNG DUNG DUNG DUNG DUNG DUNG DUNG infinity boring ass non-booty-shaking basslines for control-freak Stevie Ray Vaughnabees, so take whatever I say with like 8 grains of salt.

i liked his guitar-playing on bowie's let's dance -- esp. the opening for "modern love."

he played guitar on james browns "living in america" although i can't place the guitar part from memory.

i hear plenty of soul clear as day in his playing. his talent (like shawn estes') was clearly affected by his alc.consumption but

Nah, there were even pictures of him stumbling over his amplifiers.

Nope. His run was short. They're all republished on his website.

For what it's worth, after living 3 years in Texas, I've heard more than what should be a tolerable share of bad Stevie copyists. Yet I can ALWAYS tell the original from the fascimile. And yes, the original is FAR superior. As someone mentioned above, the Austin City Limits performance is legendary. Golden. Classic. Classique. Except on that Voodoo Chile cover (you know, the one featured in the car commercial!).

SRV was in a poor position to preach, even though the message might
have been worthy. The stewbum axe savant was the image his he,
his record company and the media played up to market him. When
it became an embarrassing liability he was already a star.

The rocker as power drunk has always been a valuable commodity in
the marketing.

Take Ozzy -- the most perfect practitioner of the craft. Then he
complains that television appearances portray him as a doddering,
near paralytic old man enfeebled by neuro-degenerative disease
accelerated by a lifelong affair with strong drink.

I don't mind the rest of his stuff, but don't love it. I have no problem with good background filler for large gatherings (ie bars) in Texas. It's inoffensive, it's kind of fun when you're drunk, and everyone knows it.

The Double Trouble album with a rotating cast of guest singers/guitarists (Jimmy Vaughan, Jonny Lang, Susan Tedeschi) is unbelievably bad.

I agree that it would be interesting to discuss his individual style, but although you've described a little about what he sounds like, you haven't said anything about what makes him individual. Instead you've talked about what makes him the SAME to other people (Buddy Guy, Edgar Winter, etc). Is that clearer?

The point is that SRV thinks in math where Hendrix thought in sound.

My main criticism with SRV is that he gave his band no space with which to do anything. The house can't really get rockin' without the bass and the drums doing something to get it that way. I forgot "Life By the Drop", which is actually pretty good, and also the exception that proves the rule.

The wham of the Memphis man, that always works. He probably gave Leslie West ideas.

OK, Tracer I see what you were asking (sorry it all came across as some kind of bizarre invective), "what would he have to be to count among my favorite players?" Well, again, I think I spelled it out above - I like him when he tackles slower, jazzier material. I mean, he provided evidence that he could play in that style, he just rarely indulged it. If he had had more of that, and less of the cops to a rock audience ("Superstition", "Voodoo Chile"), he would have been a more interesting figure to me.

He does seem quite lazy in that sense - all of that talent largely put in the service of the more uptempo numbers better suited to technical display. And even on slower 12-bar numbers like the version of "Things That I Used to Do", he just stomps all over it - takes this really emblematic blues standard and reduces it to a vehicle for hyper-note-spew. I can see where the tendency to call him "soulless" arises and I certainly wouldn't consider it one of his better performances.

It's a subjective thing, obv. My favorite blues is definitely the Chess sound and the Chicago west-side sound. But I also enjoy the cleaner, jazzier, more urbane post-Walker players like the Kings Freddie/Albert/B.B., and it seemed Vaughan's project was to marry that tradition to a more rock-derived sound, incorporating Hendrix's always-busy rhythm/lead style. I wish his records had less of the pyrotechnic displays, but ultimately I like the varied material on the two I have and I can enjoy him when I'm in the mood.

If somebody says they hate his album photo, never heard his music, that's their pregrogative... why not let them say it?

Again - not sure where I ever said people "couldn't" say whatever they want. I'm just saying that, as a listener, those criticisms aren't as interesting to me; they don't help me understand the music better as music, which is what I'm largely interested in. Actually one of my favorite books on the subject, Urban Blues neatly marries the sociological and musicological approach, which is why it is so informative.

erm, but I guess this really is turning into "guitar player" forum now..

The e-flat tuning goes a long way toward explaining that comparison, as well.

I have been playing electric guitar for 10 years now. I must say that it is one of the great
loves of my life. Sometimes when I play, I think no thoughts and the music flows so
purely that it becomes samadhi. Sometimes even when I just listen to Guitar music I
gain an understanding of Buddha Nature. (Best Example: Stevie Ray Vaughn's version
of "Little Wing" absoloutly stunning. It feels like pure compassion). The guitar to me
teaches Prajnaparamita.

Some people are afraid of death and the last attachment to be given up is that of
existing. My last attachment would be to my guitar (a 1972 Gibson SG delux if you are
wondering). I think that some day it will become my only obstacle. Or is it an obstacle
at all? How can I resolve this?

-Manjusri

(PS. Sometimes I like to call Jimi Hendrix the Bodhisattva of Experience. ;-) )

Please consult the Spring 2002 Registration Supplement or registrar’s webpage for ExCo CRNs.

ExCo instructors registering for credit, use the Exco-xxxc-01 section on PRESTO (C for instructor, right?)

Stevie Ray Vaughn 0-1 Credit

Jim Reynolds EXCO-408-01

The name says it all. This is an exco about Stevie Ray Vaughn. The class will meet once a week, TBA, and will focus on the music and life of Stevie Ray Vaughn. There will be an essay midterm and final. All are welcome.

Who let the machine in?

Comparisons to Hendrix are kind of lazy, despite the covers/well-known admiration. SRV is much more of a technician and didn't seem nearly as interested in exploring weird shit when he played. While I'm sure your average Pfork dropout could never understand how improvised music that isn't trying to be Coltrane could ever satisfy, there's as much subtlety and musicality in a song like "Cold Shot" as in any of Hendrix's playing.

(and I actually think it's Double Trouble who are the problem re: the rhythm section - they seem very very tired)

he's not using the 'Eighteen Cabinets of Giant Marshall Stack' sound.

This from someone whose posting style reflects the passion of a narcoleptic stamp collector.

passion is overrated.

http://www.satriani.com/G3/

(their show must be like dying and going to hell's own guitar store)

Another SRV bashing thread, same bullshit. Maybe if you spent half the time you do thinking up clever SRV insults as you do practicing on your guitar you might become half the player Stevie was. With that said, I will be hypocritical and defend SRV.

There are these guys that always have something bad to say about Stevie, like Stevie "had no soul" or "was not expressive" or "had no real talent" are obviously uneducated idiots that don't know jack shit about the blues or guitar playing for that matter. Mark my word "You will be the ones who never amount to shit playing guitar or in the music business".
If Stevie was such a meaningless guitar player then why did true blues guitarist like B.B. King, Albert King and Albert Collins respect him so much, play shows and sessions with him, and claim him as the "new blood" of blues guitar? Why do successful musicians like Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, all of ZZ Top (Billy Gibbons had SRV a guitar made as a gift) Lonnie Mack, and even Stevie Wonder consider him a best friend and one of the greatest guitar players ever, as they have said in many interviews? Would one of you fucking music geniuses answer that for me?
Sure Stevie’s music and style was influenced by Jimi, but just about what modern guitarist wasn't in some way or another? Shit, Jimi Hendrix influenced Stevie's early career wardrobe more than anything. If you were really listening you would hear Albert King's style influence more than Jimi Hendrix’s. If you don't think so then I dare you listen to the entire Albert King BluesPower/LiveWire album and then tell me who Stevie sounds like at least guitar solo wise? It's very naive and amateur to base Stevie's musical talent on his studio recorded albums, when his live performances truly demonstrated his amazing ability. I didn’t like Stevie’s version of “Voodoo Chile” slight return on “Couldn’t stand the weather” either, and you know what? Either did Stevie Ray Vaughan, he has said in a few interviews it sounded “over dubbed” and he felt it was missing the energy. But then watch the performance of it on Austin City Limits from 1983. It’s an incredible performance of the song. You can find it with almost any file-sharing service.

To DJ Mencap: Icarus Line are a bunch of Emo looking, no talent faggots, believe me I saw them in concert and they fucking suck.
Yeah it's real cool to fuck with Stevie's guitar, Aaron North did that because that is his only hope of getting any real publicity simply because their music is pure shit. Yeah the songs are really burning up the charts, I'm sure their careers and legacy will last, and they will be remembered forever, sure.

To Julio Desouza: You may be the dumbest fuck in here, you say "Makes me glad I haven't heard his music" yet you still hang around in here to bash him. Makes you feel like a big man, huh?

To Kris: Like anyone else, you are entitled to your opinion about his singing and playing, but to make an analogy comparing SRV to GG Allin is just redickless.

To nickalicious: I wouldn't go so far as to say SRV's cover of "Little Wing" is better, as it is always hard to surpass or approve upon an original, but SRV's cover was outstanding. I liked Pesci better in Goodfella's. Quote: "You, mudderfucker, you"

To Kenan Hebert: Obviously that Statue show's that the people in Austin appreciated him. Since you live in Austin why don't you let others in the area know how you feel about the spooging on the soul patch? You won't. Because you’re a fucking pussy who gets off by talking shit about Stevie on threads like this and you know that the musicians in Austin would tear you another asshole if they heard what you said you fucking hot shot. To think about shit like that shows how truly sick minded you are.

What a bunch of bunch of jackass, negative, fascists. In Instead of keeping your opinions and bitter jealousy of your under achievement to yourself you decide to bully others for what you don't have. You try to make others share the same feelings as yourself because that is the only thing you have in life to do. For a matter of fact this is a picture of what most of you assholes that are talking shit look like behind at your computer (Copy/Paste)
http://www.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img2&image=you.jpg

If you are all such great guitar players, why don’t you upload some links to, or make some MP3s of yourselves playing so that I and others can listen you play. I doubt you will because I sure you wouldn’t want your playing judged as you have judged Stevie’s.
All of you (except a few) can kiss my ass for getting me all worked about this shit today.

Sincerely,
SRVGoogler

I'm sorry, I mistook this as you getting annoyed when clearly you were meditating your hate away.

hey! i thought you wouldn't be back for the replies!

Shh, you're giving it away!

This thread *is* useful.

I don't really feel as much hate towards Stevie as some of the others in the guitar canon, but he doesn't strike me as anything special. I guess "Let's Dance" is kinda fun.

Shakey Mo, with a quote like that, you obviously wouldn't know a good performance even if it pissed in your face.

And my favorite Muddy Waters album is "Electric Mud".

I'm pretty sure Shakey Mo has seen eXtreme Elvis.

having never known much about, or heard SRV in my life I bought the live at montreux sets that came out. I've got a good interest in blues, I hate clapton, I've seen BB King and Buddy Guy play, and I have plenty of blues in my stacks of music but I wouldn't consider myself in ayway qualified to talk about.."the blues". Anyway I got the album because it was recommended to me as a Rory Gallagher fan. Stuck it on and I danced around (the house was empty). That's the only reaction I have, I don't have a critical reponse to make, or one based on interpretive history of the blues or whatever. I simply found that rhythm pretty good for playing loud and dancing round.

people here do like to make their digs, but it seems a pretty weak form of conversation on music to me.

at the same time fanboys frothing blood is equally wasteful.

so in summary:

SRV: fuck it, it can be fun.

i was kinda drunk at the time too

fun was had

mult. x-posts - Eric Clapton's new album is a set of Robert Johnson covers. I bet it's the worst thing released by a major label this year.

You, your dad, and the rest of you family jerking-off together around the statue. You have admitted that you are a real fudge packing, cock smoking, 100% Faggot. Have fun queer.

*sweats furiously*

Well, it's starting to bubble up. And how odd that he would assume that the figures were jerking off instead of pissing -- I almost sense jealousy!

It looks like they are whackin off out of jealousy of SRV to me also. Ned, Every post I read you always have some smartass remark. I'm tired of reading your bullshit, I know you are just a little bitch with nothing else to do. Let me know if you ever need your ass-kicked, I will gladly do it.

roll 2d6 damage

Here is something I learned Seventh-grade:

Raggett rhymes with Faggot

I have been visting this site for almost year. Google didn't have shit to do with it. I think you have been confused with someone else.

Now that would have been fun.

I want to fight. I enjoy this very much.

I'm quite sure you do, dear.

Teddy Cain rhymes with Quiche Lorraine

:-)

I'm off to lunch.

I've gotta give it to you, those ARE cool links.

"SRV" smoked many a fag"
Since you mentioned Quiche Lorraine, I'll assume your French and talking about cigarattes.

This is funny!, I just picked that email at random. Don't believe me email the address, that poor kid will have no idea what your talking about. Come on you fucking idiot, do you think I would flame using my real email address? What a bunch of morons. here try the new one.

Yahoo! ID: cain
Real Name: iLLiam
Location: Bumhole
Age: 16
Marital Status: Single
Gender: Male
Occupation: Student

More About Me
Hobbies: Webdesign, Hard Dirty Violent Kinky Sex, Getting Fucked

Favorite Quote
"I was pullin buckets while you was a twitch, in ya fathers nutsack!"

Links Create your own home page at GeoCities!
· Home Page: http://www.chewed.net
· Cool Link 1: http://lorah.chewed.net
· Cool Link 2: http://bls.chewed.net
· Cool Link 3: http://www.kinkylicious.net

cain@yahoo.com
teddy@yahoo.com

Teddys not my real name you dumb fuck.

cinniblount: you want to get envolved you little dicksucking bitch, bring your shit too pussy. My mother has been dead since I was 14 years old, so shut you fucking mouth you motherfuck

Wait, your real name is Liam, so for your tough on-line name you choose: Teddy?

For the last time Cinniblount you little nigger want-to-be, I am American. Shut your fucking mouth before I fuck you up. Where you from bitch.

by the way Teddy I live in Los Angeles with your mother, but you'll have to get past her first. She's a beast.

Fuck You cinniblount you nigger toe sucking pussy

I have had my fun, sorry to all I offended. Fuck you SRV

See you guys some other time.

Fuck you all and god bless my filthy mouth

I really don't give a shit about what other people think of SRV, like him or not, he achieved more success than most of them ever will.

It just pisses me off when you post a picture of something so disrespectful (Not saying you owe Stevie respect, but you don't have to piss on him) and boast about it like it was "A good time for me and my buddies, to pee on Stevie". I would not piss on any thing that was ever intended as a memorial. I am wondering though was that you in the picture? Well anyway the SRV fan club scrubs the statue twice a year, I'm sure there going to enjoy me emailing them this pic. I'll email it the Jimmie Vaughan webmaster and Beverly at tommyshannon.com as well. I'll send the your best regards fortunate hazel.

http://www.imageshack.us/img2/9684/you.jpg

Hmmmmmm how do you post pitures.

Darn, I am being total serious. This picture is of me that my mom took a few months ago and I am so mad you made fun of me like I am a geek Srvgoogler. Just who the heck do you think you are? I am a really cool dude when you get to know me.

Here are my stats for the girls out there
Newton
email: dreamingofsomeonespecial@home.com
5'9
127lbs
4.78inch Penis(erected)
I am a Gemini and I work on computers for my job.
(ps thats actually a rash on my face not acne, I swear)