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Hip-hop is about to die

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The reasons?

The most popular male rapper is a white guy with a typical white trash background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about hip-hop

The most popular female rapper is partly a singer, and her lyrical theme is quite familiar: Everything was sooo much better in the good old days, while today everything is just shit. Heard it before? :-)

The most popular rap duo's latest album is a prog-influenced double concept album where half of the tracks hardly contain any rapping at all.

All of these three acts appeal to a lot of critics who have previously not been particularly into rap or hip-hop at all.

And the fact that I - an archetypical hip-hop-hater - quite like all of these three acts should probably serve as a nail in the coffin for hip-hop too.


Face it guys! Hip-hop is dying, and purist faves such as Jay-Z will not be able to save it as the Urban community moves on to other styles. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

what are the new styles?

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

1. purist faves such as Jay-Z

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

what are the new styles?

Probably something that will not appeal to white audiences for 10-15 years yet

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

2. the Urban community (woo, not much of a community when they be shootin at each other all day huh?)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

there'll be tears before tea time

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir...waves the RED RAG....

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

3. Hip-hop is dying (if hip-hop dies, it will just come back to life revived/re-invented, just like rock was(n't)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

In 10 years, Hip-hop will be about as relevant as prog rock and calypso are now.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:32 (twenty-two years ago)

make your mind up!

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

geir's just excited that timbaland likes coldplay.

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Timbaland liking Coldplay is probably another nail in the coffin for hip-hop ;)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

20 posts: Geir accused of being racist

50 posts: i deride the G-Unit album without having heard it

3000 posts: jnafehjgojngmgnswglkjadfjpaigw

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

In 10 years, Hip-hop will be about as relevant as prog rock and calypso are now.

is the most mindblowing thing i've read all week.

The most popular rap duo

isn't this young gunz?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

who will be the hip-hop mars volta??

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

So wait is hip hop dying or is rap dying?

Cuz even if Outkast has dropped a lot of the rapping they're still hip hop.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

let's not forget geir lives in EUROPE people.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

R&B will survive, but the form of R&B that is called hip-hop will die, remembered as mainly a late 80/early 90s style.

Just the same way rock survives while different sorts of rock subgenres die.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i deride the G-Unit

For a second I thought that was Geir's new nickname...

― Prude (Prude), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

will dan ackroyd open a House Of Hip Hop?

― jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

if i am to understand lord hongro's logic here, hip-hop is dying because he likes it.
ergo geir hongro is single handedly killing hip-hop¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

'The most popular male rapper was a white guy with a typical white trash background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about paul mcartney'

geir seriously that stuff in mojo about give peace a chance being the first rap song isnt actually true man

― sean,,,,,, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

will dan ackroyd open a House Of Hip Hop?

Yes, an International House of Hip Hop, or IHoHH. With the slogan, "IHoHH? No, you ho!"

― Prude (Prude), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

The most popular male rapper is a white guy with a typical white trash background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about hip-hop

Translation: one artist has converted a large number of people into hip-hop fans, therefore hip-hop is about to die.

All of these three acts appeal to a lot of critics who have previously not been particularly into rap or hip-hop at all.

Tranlation: a number of acts have converted a number of critics into casual hip-hop fans, therefore hip-hop is about to die.

And the fact that I - an archetypical hip-hop-hater - quite like all of these three acts should probably serve as a nail in the coffin for hip-hop too.

Translation: I am starting to like hip-hop, therefore hip-hop is about to die.

― Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

(Basic gist: More people like hip-hop, so it is about to die.)

― Andy K (Andy K), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

geir seriously that stuff in mojo about give peace a chance being the first rap song isnt actually true man

No, I know it isn't true. "Subterranean Homesick Blues" was 4 years earlier. :-)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Where does all this leave Tim Dog?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

so now Dylan invented hip hop? Madam you go too far!

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

The blues was given up by the African American community after white acts adopted it. And, of course, after a few years white acts tired of it too. The blues is now just a subculture genre that nobody really cares about.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

becoming less relevant != "dying"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Same thing will happen to hip-hip because of Eminem.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir, how do you keep suckering in the same people with the same lines? It's a rare gift!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

geirants just dont understand

― seann, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

geir speaks sense on some
level, but i feel his own
timeline is gravely off.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Blues was the hip-hop of it's time

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Where does me going into Camwhore chatrooms signed in as Dizzee Rascal, typing "FIX UP LOOK SHARP!", and then leaving fit into all this?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:45 (twenty-two years ago)

jazz was the blues of it's time

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

jazz was the techno

― derrick may or may not (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Jazz started out as the blues of its time, then was turned into the prog of its time after a few decades.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Prog was the jazz of blues's time.

― Prude (Prude), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Blues was never the most popular musical genre in the world at any time.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The blues was given up by the African American community after white acts adopted it. And, of course, after a few years white acts tired of it too.

The part of this equation that's off is that black rappers get more love from white audiences then did black blues artists afaik.

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.

― Zimmy (onate), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

this just in from AP: Hip Hop dead.
LA Sherrif's Dept. spokesperson Hummer Longley told reporters this morning that the lifeless corpse of Hip Hop was found in a dumpster behind Kmart. While the cause of death can't be confirmed without an autopsy, LASD sources indicate that foul play is suspected. LAPD Spokesman Johnson Dickface said that even if Hip Hop's death turned out to be murder, the LAPD probably wouldn't investigate it, "just to piss off all the rap nerds on the internet."

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

NEVER EVER EVER EVER CHANGE I NEVER CHANGE I NEVER CHANGE OOH I AM A ROCK REPRESENTER IN NORWAY IT IS WINTER SELECT: MAGAZINE FOR THE THINKER I NEVER CHANGE IM JUST GEIR EVERY DAY I NEVER CHANGE IM TOO STUCK IN MY WAYS I NEVER CHANGE

― HONGRO HOVITO, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"humor is about to die"

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"about to"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"is"

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:52 (twenty-two years ago)

what?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

ILL GIVE YOU A HUMOR "BITCH"

― HONGSTA, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"give you"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

My God. It's like a car crash only not funny.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

HA

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

"HA"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

SORRY SHALL I JUST SAY "WILLY ANBD BOOBS" INSTEAD???

― GIER, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Prog-rock is not relevant? Why did no one tell me?

― Dave Vinson (Gaughin), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

The most popular female rapper is partly a singer, and her lyrical theme is quite familiar: Everything was sooo much better in the good old days, while today everything is just shit. Heard it before? :-)

Eve? Missy? Ashanti? They all sold more albums last year than Miss 1998 did. And they're all very much about now.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

think he means ja rule

― seann, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Who the hell is that one supposed to be referring to? It better not be Lauryn Hill.

x-post ha ha ha ha h ah ah ha

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

http://rapworld.simplyradio.com/images/Gravediggaz/gravediggaz02.jpg

― hip-hop is already undead! (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Hip-hop is going to die. We still hear disco and see traces of its culture today and you think hip-hop will die?? It would take at least 100 years to forget hip-hop if it vanished today. Cunt.

Damn I wanna hear 6 Feet Deep.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, a real question: has there been any point in the history of popular music when a discrete group of people has gone from preferring more rhythm to less?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I like when Geir dismisses hip-hop as a "fad," as if it was the invention of a record company, rather than an art form with roots that go back decades (fuck, centuries even, if you consider that traditional African music is part of the lineage).

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, a real question: has there been any point in the history of popular music when a discrete group of people has gone from preferring more rhythm to less?

1967

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

gabbneb, what do you mean by less rhythm?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

1991

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"Red Wizard is about to die!"

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

valkyrie has REFLECTIVE SHOT

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i kiss you so much right now john!

― raphael diligent (Cozen), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

right back atcha!

― J0hn "Needs Food Badly" Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

We’re J.J. Fad and we’re here to rock
Rhymes like ours could never be stopped
See, there’s three of us and I know we’re fresh
Party rockers, non-stoppers, and our names are def
See, the “J” is for just, the other for jammin’
The “F” is for fresh, “A” and “D” def
Behind the turntables is D.J. Train
Mixin’ and scratchin’ is the name of the game
Now here’s a little somethin’ ‘bout nosy people
It’s not real hard, it’s plain and simple
Baby-D

Supersonic
Supersonic

Supersonic motivating rhymes are creating
And everybody knows that J.J. Fad is devastating
We know you like us girls so you better get stirl
‘Cause we are the homechicks that are rockin’ your world

Supersonic
Supersonic

http://www.globaldarkness.com/articles/images/jjfad.jpg

― Chris B. Sure (Chris V), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

In 10 years, Hip-hop will be about as relevant as prog rock and calypso are now.

But prog-rock was NEVER relevant!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

watch out we are rhythm bandits!

― Huckleberry Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 18:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't you watch Futurama, Geir? The Beastie Boys still sell out concerts in the year 3000!!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

It all comes down to this simple choice:- You are flying into the sun in a malfunctioning spaceship and you can either put on Woodface or that Alec Empire record. What's it to be, cowboys and cowgirls?

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Pink Floyd

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(assuming it was the heart of the aforementioned sun)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I am on a roll today. A roll of LAMENESS!

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

What the fuck is you people's problem with calypso?

― Allyzay, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

>>has there been any point in the history of popular music when a discrete group of people has gone from preferring more rhythm to less?<<

Didn't this happen in hip-hop itself around, oh, the 1982-83 or so, or maybe a few years later, when Rakim and KRS decided disco wasn't "real"? And at least two or three times since? (Though not this year. I guess.) Not to mention in rock around, say, 1979, when disco sucks happened and all the drummers forgot 16th notes? And then again a decade later, both in indie rock and loud-guitar rock? (And yeah, originally in 1967 or 1968 maybe, when all the garage bands turned into artsy metally proggy bands.) And it sort of happened in jazz when bebop happened. (Though maybe "more rhythm" isn't right; more like "from music you can dance to to music to music you can't." That's happened hundreds of times, in the last century alone. It's happened in country music, in blues, just about everywhere.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

It would take at least 100 years to forget hip-hop if it vanished today.

Like ragtime! My ragtime thugs thought they would rule the bandstand 4evah, specially after they ran off those bitch-ass Sousa loving Marchists.

― Hunter (Hunter), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

In 10 years, Hip-hop will be about as relevant as prog rock and calypso are now

I thought prog was more relevant now than any time in the past 10 years, hell even Dr C likes it, and the calypso revival is surely just around the corner.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I was about to say bebop, but the rhythm actually got more syncopated and complex, just lighter and less danceable.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Rakim and prog-rock supposedly made music more "complex," too. But it was more like: Look how complex we are, Mom! The complexity was already there; the difference is that the new acts were wearing it on the sleeves, like a badge. I know way less about jazz; I'm guessing, though, that something really similar may have happened with bebop.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

gabbneb, what do you mean by less rhythm?

less poly? less (break)beat? were you going to tell me that 7/4 is more rhythm than 6/8?

so there are probably lots and lots of examples, but I'm not sure about these:

1967

which is the year:
- immediately following the formation of the Meters
- that James Brown released "Cold Sweat" and some would say fully transitioned to a funk artist
- that Sly and the Family Stone and Charles Wright released their first albums, the former influencing the beginning of Miles' electric period
- that George Clinton released his first single

1991

which is the year:
- after Digital Underground debuted and brought back the P-funk
- that Guru invented contemporary hiphop beats on Step in the Arena
- that Ali Shaheed Muhammad augmented live bass and drum 'presence'
- that Busta Rhymes poly'd the verbal rhythm with the leaders of the new
- that deep Southern beats blew up with the Geto Boys
- that NWA's popularity peaked as Dr. Dre invented G-funk

I'm not sure that all of these are examples of "more rhythm," but they exemplify something that seems relevant - new kinds of beats, increased focus on them, popularization of them, etc.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

that Guru invented contemporary hiphop beats on Step in the Arena

Don't you mean Premier? (point still stands tho)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was pretty fuckin' rhythmic while we're at it

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Not compared to "Welcome to the Jungle" it didn't.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

it wasn't, I mean -- And anyway, "Teen Spirit" was if anything an EXCEPTION in the world of grunge, which was WAY less danceable than hair metal. And L'Trimm and the Real Roxanne and Schooly D made way better dance records than most of that 1991 hip-hop stuff, too.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

And "(I Wanna) Testify" by the Parliaments was in no fucking way funkier than Junior Walker's 1965 "Shotgun," either.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

me in not-knowing-of-that-which-I-speak shocker. Guru, ha.

And "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was pretty fuckin' rhythmic while we're at it

the riff/verses of "Even Flow" as well.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Really? Pearl Jam always sounded like clunky mush -- R.E.M. with louder guitars and a Blood Sweat & Tears type dork grunting as if trying too hard to take a dump on top. (Only PJ exception I can think of was "Not For You," where they stole a Stones riff.) And the drums in the Spin Doctors' frigging "Two Princes" move and swing more than drums in any Nirvana or Pearl Jam song I've ever heard. Which isn't saying a whole lot. (And I hear more rhythm in "Jump" by Kris Kross, which came a year LATER, than in most of the '91 hip-hop above, too.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Moments in musical history where rhythm has become less important:

- Classical music 18th and 19th century. Hardly any drums at all, in spite of the fact that drumming is older than melody and clearly existed in traditional European music too

1958-60: Rock'n'roll gradually replaced by more melody-oriented and slower, less rhythm oriented, Brill Building music

1967-mid 1970s: Psychedelia and prog (the African American community didn't follow this, but the bigger mainstream acts went psychedelic. Even Rolling Stones were pretty melodic and twee in 1967)

Ca. 1980: Reaction against disco

87-88: New singer/songwriter craze dominated by the likes of Suzanne Vega and Tracy Chapman

1991: Grunge

1994-95: Britpop

Late 1990s: Spice Girls and Max Martin make more melody oriented chart pop - still rhythmic, but not quite as much as the dance stuff that dominated in the mid 90s.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir, if you're going to use The Spice Girls as a cornerstone for a "rhythm is less important than melody" argument, I fear you've already lost the battle.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:45 (twenty-two years ago)

This shpiel reminds me of somebody else (though the comment is about something completely different. The original undoctored comment is *HERE*)

For amusment...a parody of the imfamous "[X] is dying" troll (and the rebuttal)

It is now official - Source Magazine has confirmed: Hip-Hop is dying
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Hip-Hop community when recently [RS] confirmed that Hip-Hop accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all [Sales]. Coming on the heels of the latest [Billboard Chart] which plainly states that Hip-Hop has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Hip-Hop is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent [Album Poll].
You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict Hip-Hop's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Hip-Hop faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Hip-Hop because Hip-Hop is dying.
Things are looking very bad for Hip-Hop. As many of us are already aware, Hip-Hop continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. [Producers are] the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its [Fanbase].

[ YATA, YATA, YATA We have all seen this before ]
This loser has been posting this for several years now. Reminds me of when I was in college and got a job tending bar. There were these 6 middle age guys that used to come in every day around 5:30pm. They would sit it the same places at the bar, order the same beers, and tell the same lies to each other over and over again. They each had their own rant they would go into if they got enough beer into them. We used to call them "The Loosers Club". Every bar I've ever been in has had it's own special version of the club. This guy is about 15 to 20 year out from joining. That and 75 pounds and a dead end job. The bullshit you hear today is the bullshit your heard yesterday and will hear tomorrw. Ignore him. Don't waste your time. He's not going away. We are stuck with him

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

back in the day, for me at least, "Even Flow" had, if not head-nod potential, something like the faster cousin of the slow-rolling "Country Grammar" beat.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

the ying yang twins lp is half prog?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, "Evenflow" is all about the palm-muted guitars and pounding drums. Much funkier than SLTS.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir: The most popular male rapper is a white guy with a typical white trash background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about hip-hop
Andy's Translation: one artist has converted a large number of people into hip-hop fans, therefore hip-hop is about to die.
My Translation: Well their was this typical white trash guy called Elvis who got a lot of fan converted to this Rock and Roll thing and we all know that died out almost immediately after he showed up... Right?

Geir: All of these three acts appeal to a lot of critics who have previously not been particularly into rap or hip-hop at all.
Andy's Tranlation: a number of acts have converted a number of critics into casual hip-hop fans, therefore hip-hop is about to die.
My Translation: Now Christgau's minions will start to openly Canonize hip-hop. Ergo, it will last at least another 50 years.

Geir: And the fact that I - an archetypical hip-hop-hater - quite like all of these three acts should probably serve as a nail in the coffin for hip-hop too.
Andy's Translation: I am starting to like hip-hop, therefore hip-hop is about to die.
My Translation: I'm sorry, Geir logic momentarily escapes me. Is he implying that as soon as he likes something it becomes uncool and therefore must be destroyed?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

And what about the tribal beatz on Alice in Chains' "Would?"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

No, really...Is this thread saying that "more popular == dying"?
Please explain!

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

taking geir hongro (or for that matter any other european talking about hip-hop)(and england's totally a part of europe yall)(geir hongro=simon reynolds - hair + gut) = you get what you deserve

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing gets by you, Custos!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"tribal" beats? From what, a pack of hungry cannibals?

>>Christgau's minions will start to openly Canonize hip-hop<<

What do you mean "start"? Didn't this happen, like, two decades ago?

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

i still like geir's comment that hip-hop will be the prog/calypso of 2013. it sounds prophetic.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:05 (twenty-two years ago)

>>taking geir hongro (or for that matter any other european talking about hip-hop)(and england's totally a part of europe yall)(geir hongro=simon reynolds - hair + gut) = you get what you deserve<<

And I deserve MC Solaar! Or at least Falco. Which is fine.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing gets by you, Custos!
This thread hurts my brane!

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

falco (and articolo 31) = show, not tell (always the best kinda criticism)(best kinda music also)(best kinda anything)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Calypso's not dead

― l farrakhan, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

"Classical music 18th and 19th century..."

You fucking mongoose Geir - Beethoven is all about rhythm, he reintroduced its power in a big way to European classical music - the same goes for Wagner, Brahms, Mahler, Berlioz, and R.Strauss.
Just LISTEN to them!

― Pete S, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

So were you talking about Lauryn Hill, Geir?

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

he's talking about neneh cherry

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Calypso's not dead

certainly not, neither is prog. i think it will be interesting to hear future musicians cite hip-hop in the way, say, the mars volta cites prog. i don't think musicians exactly cite calypso, though, it's more of a two-way where calypso artists appropriate elements of other musics and vice versa. though it's not that simple, of course, because there's some sort of dynamic going on that has to do with the fact that calypso is the sound of a few small islands and hip-hop seems like the sound of the northern hemisphere (on it's good days) i'm exaggerating the local vs. international a bit, but hey. so i'm imagining a future where hip-hop has shrunk to a small local core and some international music movement is citing its sounds.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

haha blount
actually, maybe he meant Blondie

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

After the invention of recorded sound, I think it became impossible to really ever "kill" a genre (unless you find a way of 1.destroying every copy of every recording 2.kill every past practitioner of the genre. 3.destroy all evidence that the genre ever existed)
At worst the genre just becomes a niche genre beloved by connoisuers, and a obscure source of inspiration for the more eclectic musician.

and Geir, I don't think Hip-Hop is even coming close to the end of its shelf life. As far as I'm concerned it just started to get vaguely interesting again.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm too old for this thread.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm too sexy for this shirt

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Calypso's not dead

I have a vision of 60something calypso fan's wearing that slogan on their t-shirts.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ok does '________'s dead' = 'white people in america and europe don't listen to it as much as they used to' (in which case calypso is maybe dead) or 'it isn't being made (well) anymore or no longer appeals to the community from whence it sprung' (in which case calypso is not dead)?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

what about disco?

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Disco is still quite possibly the most popular music in the world.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

...and "quite possibly" is almost definitely a huge undertatement.

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, disco's children. Put them all together, and there's no argument.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

yes, we want disco that cites hip-hop and calypso.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Disco never died. It just changed its name. A lot.

>>we want disco that cites hip-hop and calypso.<<

You must mean August Darnell, right?

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.asiatravel.com/indonesia/saripanpacific/gifs/pitstop.jpg

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"We bridging the gap from rap to calypso"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

no, chuck, i want disco that cites 50 cent and soca and was made on the moon in 2013! (i just picked up the mutant disco comp and i'm only starting to wrap my head around the "kid creole" ... i had no idea he was still recording!)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

ralypso - calyp-hop-so

― Patrick Kinghorn, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

taking geir hongro (or for that matter any other european talking about hip-hop)(and england's totally a part of europe yall)(geir hongro=simon reynolds - hair + gut) = you get what you deserve

This is total crap, you know better Blount. It's basically just ignorance of cultural differences, there's no concrete proof that American interpretation is superior, it's like mocking etiquette or accents or something.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

That English food is terrible, eh?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Re calypso - consider the concept of the 'zombie', perhaps as a) formally sentient creature transformed into a moving corpus without a 'soul' b) projection of (understandable) fear of eternal servitude. Who are the bocors and is it magic or trickery and who's got the salt? Is the appeal of zombie films the pathos of dead, emotionless 'things' inhabiting the bodies of loved ones, or the vicarious thrill of getting to dismember them with the assurance that there's no consequences and you have NO CHOICE and you're not really 'killing' them anyway? I was just thinking of Harry Belafonte's 'Zombie Jamboree', was that political or genre-meta foreboding?

― dave q, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

music will never die.

― cagebot (jdesouza), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:30 (twenty-two years ago)

dave, let's not underestimate the viewers' understandable identification with a posse that flows unstoppably around obstacles like lava and craves the taste of human brains.

i think it was david thomson who said the appeal of the zombie movie was the inevitable joy of cannibalism - "we share in their feast".

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

er, joy in the inevitable cannibalism

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know about you but cannibalism is my one remaining joy these days.

― Patrick Kinghorn, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

plus, it was responsible for those tribal beats in that alice in chains song!

― chuck, Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

unga bunga

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Gwau gugGwau Gwauw-Gwau
Gwau gugGwau Gwauw-Gwau

(that opening riff is what makes it special.)

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Wednesday, 26 November 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

So were you talking about Lauryn Hill, Geir?

Talking about Missy Elliot. She has very much this approach that hip-hop was better in the 80s when it was fun and people weren't dissing other rappers

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

big pimpin' in the 0-4!

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to regret my misuse of "tribal," aren't I.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd like to point out that "we share in their feast" was an invention. the actual quote: "just as we yearn to obliterate these living dead, we long for their triumph and their banquet".

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Well AiC were big at a time when when "tribal","Fakir Musafar" etc were buzzwords

― dave q, Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:18 (twenty-two years ago)

haha - 80s hip-hop = when people weren't dissing other rappers!!!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

wait, there was a time when rap wasn't fun and rappers weren't dissing other rappers?

(haha xpost)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir's in the south Bronx. The south south Bronx. The south Bronx. The south south Bronx.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 27 November 2003 00:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude 50 cent is more popular than Eminem right now. He's black you know.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

HE IS???

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Rap Disco = Blondie

Disco will never die!
but it already did. years ago. these things never die.
there will alwsy be someone somewhere listening.

Ragga DnB revialism has already happened, and the gener only died // yesterday?

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Is hip-hop dead yet?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

How about now?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

it won't be dead, but it'll always be corny.

― hstencil, Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(Basic gist: More people like hip-hop, so it is about to die.)
-- Andy K (andke...) (webmail), November 26th, 2003. (Andy K)


In order to contract, it is necessary first to expand.
In order to weaken, it is necessary first to strengthen.

- Lao Tzu

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Current state of disco = techno.

Current state of r'n'b = hip-hop.

May I preempt your response to the above and be the first to say: what a load of rubbish. Unless you agree with it, in which case I say, Colin OTM.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:51 (twenty-two years ago)

current state of r&b= r&b

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

"techno"

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

50 Cent is just popular right now because he is an Eminem protege. And because Eminem hasn't released anything new in 2003.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir, when are you going to get way onto video games and leave us alone?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, wait. That was a fake Gier. Fooled me.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:22 (twenty-two years ago)

No, wait! That was Geir! You people are going to drive me to stop drinking, I swear.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:22 (twenty-two years ago)

geir explain why the 50 cent album blew up so much more than the d12 album, esp. since eminem was more popular when the d12 album came out

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it was better?

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

and why is it blowing up more than the obie trice?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

or hell, eminem's last album?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

not to mention: eminem's next album

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Obie Trice is getting unfairly slept on, IMO. But it's still not as good an album as fiddy.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

"They stab it with their steely knives
But they just can't kill the beast"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's because 50 Cent has catchier melodies.

*gasp!*

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

current state of disco is not techno. Disco and house are farrrr more aligned. Actually alot of techno is deriving it's rhythm from house. The way I see it. House is for the over 21 crowd. Bars n' shit. Most my friends who still profess they are techno (even at our older age) produce music more similar in vein to disco/house. Back to the thread...Puff Daddy produces house music now so that's more rap fans that house music can steal. Thanks Puff.

― cs appleby (cs appleby), Thursday, 27 November 2003 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it's because 50 Cent has catchier melodies.
It's easier to "mashup" his raps with Devo drumbeats.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"50 Cent has catchier melodies" And why did he diss Ja-Roole again??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/04/10/netherlands.euthanasia.03/euthanasia.box.gif

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:50 (twenty-two years ago)

he's workin' on step e. here...

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 27 November 2003 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm coming round to the view that disco became house, then techno. The differences between techno and house are small. Derrick May agrees with me. So there.

I'm off topic, what's new.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Thursday, 27 November 2003 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Why do we bother? And, frankly, why does Geir bother? I know colonial times are over and it's hard to deal with, but hell, maybe you can sit back with some V.S. Naipaul and drink a proper cup of tea whilst listening to Blur.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Eminem's only popular because he's a Dr. Dre protege.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 27 November 2003 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I know colonial times are over and it's hard to deal with

Oh, for the times when the sun never set on the Norwegian Empire!

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:39 (twenty-two years ago)

about the only thing I like on this thread = the picture of the gravediggaz.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

we'll try harder from now on

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, damn, you'd better, or i'll be laying the cat down on y'all.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 27 November 2003 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

hip hop will always be relevant, as it represents a certain, distinct, unique and major category style of vocal performance that can't be uninvented.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 27 November 2003 12:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Like speaking in rhythm on top of instruments playing was never done before hip-hop?

Bob Dylan to thread again.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

hip-hop is about more than just vocal performance, a lot more - the baggage is both advantageous and disadvantageous

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Queen Latifah, in theory.

― VS Naipaul (tracerhand), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Like speaking in rhythm on top of instruments playing was never done before hip-hop?

like elaborate drum patterns were never done b4 jungle

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Gene Krupa - jungle pioneer

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Yo fuckwit--it aint instuments playing!!! It's RECORDED MUSIC. It's SPONTANEOUS. Bob Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues" is a song that was produced as a unit.

Why don't you do some research into how hiphop developed...it's very closely linked to the Jamaican deejay technique of speaking over records. You see, Geir, in Jamaica people didn't have enough money to put together live bands. Instead, in a remarkable form of inventiveness, they began putting out both vocal and instrumental "versions" (dubs...have you heard of this fellow "King Tubby"). At local dances, these dubs would be played and people would both speak and sing over them--creating new songs. They'd also chat about all sorts of topics that were very rarely voiced otherwise. This idea was taken to NYC by West Indian immigrants like Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaata, and others. In NYC, people started playing with idea that the recorded music being spoken over could be treated as an instrument as well--instead of playing with the volumes, eqs, as well as stopping and starting the record, hip hop djs started scratching.

Now, this is just a wee primer. I know it is as purposeless arguing with you as it is to try and have a meaningful conversation with a fundamentalist preacher. I just hope against hope that you aren't really this closeminded and bigoted. If that isn't true, opt for my mother's advice: If you have nothing positive to say, keep your mouth shut!!

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir insists that melody-driven MUSIC is superior to that cybele, but this is just his opinion and not something that can be PROVEN as FACT. he's free to criticise it constructively of course, though he tends to not do this - Geir is actually one of the more positive people on this board (!)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't understand, hip hop has melodies!

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but stevem, he does not state these things as an opinion. He states what you call "opinion" as a PROVEN FACT. His criticism is never constructive and, often, he's flat out racist. I wouldn't say this constitutes "positive".

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's he actually flatout racist?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, whether I write it or not, there is obviously an IMO attached to everything I write anyway.
-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), March 3rd, 2003.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought he was kinda racist when he said that dizzee rascal wan't english.

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i was a little shocked at that.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir insists that melody-driven MUSIC is superior to that cybele

Actually he doesn't, he claims that "non-melodic" music isn't music at all - for instance African music is not music but another cultural form altogether.

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd question the implications of that attitude.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 13:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I wouldn't necessarily "question the implications of that attitude" IF I thought that Geir had the requisite intelligence to discuss theories of culture, but he hasn't.

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Re. calypso; wasn't Belafonte's "Banana Boat Song" to all intents and purposes the first reggae hit? The production and arrangement on it are virtually proto-dub. Pity it didn't get to #1 in the UK otherwise I'd've liked to have read what Tom would have to say about it in Popular.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if the pinefox has anything to say here. As far as I know he doesn't claim that hip hop isn't music, or is better or worse when it has elements x or y in it, or was actually invented by Gregorian monks or something. I suspect he just thinks it's all - every bit of it - a "load of old bollocks."

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:21 (twenty-two years ago)

What does he make of James Brown, though?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

He probably feels better than James Brown.

― Was (Not Was), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:27 (twenty-two years ago)

actually I thought the dodgiest thing Geir has said to date was that "London isn't British anymore", because even the most racist people I know tend to concede that, while they don't think black or Asian British people can be *English*, they do nonetheless accept them as *British*. that puts Geir one level below Robert Henderson. oops.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

but he is right in that the nature and notion of London and Britishness has been altered - likewise hip hop is different now from what it was 10 and 20 years ago

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

but he is right in that the nature and notion of London and Britishness has been altered

yes, but they've been in constant flux since like fucking 1066!!!! when has london and britishness not been altering?

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

1065

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 27 November 2003 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

OTM Enrique. The question is really whether you think this cultural "flux" is a good thing or bad thing. Geir likes to drop these little bombs on us evry now and again and then decides not to explain precisely what he means and to snigger behind his hand instead. I'm not sure he quite realises that the cumulative effect of all his implications and imprecations and half-statements and half-truths is that rather a lot of people now think he is a racist. His choice really.

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

ah the good old days, when Africa had political structures and heirarchies of bureacracy and "Brits" were still putting on dabs of warpaint every morning before digging rocks for breakfast

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

More your choice to think of him as a racist, surely? Anyway, wasn't William the Conqueror descended from Norwegian/Viking stock?

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

And I am loath to pour scorn on the expressions of someone for whom English is not their first language (as it isn't mine). Other than that, divested of the context in which they were presented, I can't disagree with any of his three original bullet points.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

william I as viking

yeah... ooh, conspiracy

'racy' -- i'm not going near that with a pole

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Cybele I resent your Naipaul diss, he is much more complicated than all that

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

More your choice to think of him as a racist, surely?

That would of course assume that I am one of those who consider him a racist - I'm not. I do think he makes comments which can be considered racist every so often but more through ignorance than malice.

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Bear in mind I'm only agreeing with what he has to say specifically about Eminem, Elliott and OutKast - nothing else (although I was surprised elsewhere to see him nominate Low as the best Bowie album).

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

'racy' -- i'm not going near that with a pole

Wot, you got sumthin' against Poland?

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

The most popular male rapper is a white guy with a typical white trash background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about hip-hop

i'm still unsure; i mean, is this even true? do 'real' headz not like em. i'm white and middle class and i was in my mid-teens very into hip hop. and em, as well as neptunes/outkast, got me back into it. and why shd that 'kill hip hop' anyway, ppl getting into it?

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

nick hornby likes him. QED.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

...and let's face it, most of us here would rather admit to liking Geir Hongro than Nick Hornby.

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll take that in jest cos you almost certainly have tastes in common with NH (i don't now what NH likes, but if i did, i can't imagine structuring my own tastes in opposition)(except i hate springsteen without ever having heard him). anyhoo -- NH isn't a real eminem fan, i was there first (=trad way genre stays fresh when it gets popular, surely?)

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

is this even true? do 'real' headz not like em?

Real headz give him his props whether they like him or not, and most of them do. The whole thing about Em is that he busts through the race barrier and has black fans. Geir didn't see 8 Mile, I guess.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

if you read 31 songs - and there are 31,000 better ways of spending your time - you will discover that i share NO tastes with the highbury beezlebub hornby.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh God, he lives in Highbury.... gulp

― The Spotlight Kid (kid), Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

hornby, conversely, shares quite a lot of tastes with hongro. given the spookily similar constructions of their names and the shared follicular lack, it is my proposition to the House that Geir Hongro and Nick Hornby are ONE AND THE SAME and that Hongro has in fact been Nick Hornby ALL ALONG!

*clears throat, sits down to dessert*

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

not even salt n' pepa?! for shame.

― enrique (Enrique), Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I am working on a little "something" that should please all my hip-hop fans. Can't say what it is yet, but when I find out, you'll be the first to know!!!

― Sting, Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:45 (twenty-two years ago)

My Translation: Well their was this typical white trash guy called Elvis who got a lot of fan converted to this Rock and Roll thing and we all know that died out almost immediately after he showed up... Right?

In 1962-63, while Elvis was in the army, more "adult" and film soundtrack-type music (e.g., "Theme From a Summer Place") ruled the airwaves, and many people believed that rock-n-roll was a fad that had run its course. In fact, the bands of the British Invasion, not to mention their American and other contemporaries, were playing in basements and garages and bars, developing what is now thought of as "classic rock."

Some people think of music in terms of genre waves, as opposed to individual artists. And if you look at music history in terms of waves, there will be periods of ebbs and low tides and dead fish washed up on the shore.

― j.lu (j.lu), Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:46 (twenty-two years ago)

in '62 you had motown.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

and in '63 you had spector. and the beach boys. and dylan.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 27 November 2003 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Which, technically, was probably considered R&B, pop and folk respectively.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 27 November 2003 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(I know a lot of people considered the Beach Boys rock, but at least in my neighborhood in the '60s there were huge mods/rockers-style divisions between greasers [who liked them their rockabilly] and baldies [buzzcut prep Beach Boys fans].)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 27 November 2003 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(Granted, I wasn't in my neighborhood in the '60s... whatever. j.lu's point still stands.)

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Thursday, 27 November 2003 17:18 (twenty-two years ago)

John,

I know...Naipaul *is* much more complicated. Strangely enough, (and this is probably why I had Naipaul on my mind) I am teaching Naipaul right now to one of my classes, in particular, "The Night Watchman's Occurence Book." I think that this particular story presents the complications in Naipaul's thinking...the story presents the relationship between a hotel manager and a night watchman. The manager is unbelievably demanding and the watchman, although he tries his best, can possibly read the manager's mind and perform his job to the satisfaction of the manager. On the other hand, the story demonstrates the fact that the watchman is completely unable to take any initiative--he cannot make any decisions or leaps in logic for himself. Similar to Walcott's "A Far Cry From Africa," we are left hanging in the balance...who do we side with? Should we take sides? I believe this difficulty is the value of studying Naipaul's work--the value being the experience of the liminal space between the West and the West Indies, the colonizer and the colonized, the draw of English culture and the repellent aspects of this very same culture.

All this to say, not only that you are right about my short changing of Naipaul, but also to present a framework for analysing the argument at hand...the discussion about melody and rhythm, what is music and what isn't only becomes angering when you stand on one side of the fence--just like how Naipaul becomes extraordinarily angering when he starts mouthing off about the value of the "universal civilization" over those "fanatics" in the Islamic world. This is not particularly valuable. But the process, the experience of hanging out in the space between and discussing just how it feels--now *that* is important.

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I should have edited that...sorry for the non parallel sentence beginning paragraph two!

― cybele (cybele), Thursday, 27 November 2003 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

cybele, EVERY time you express yourself at length, I am completely thrilled that you are an ilx0r contributor. Useful comparison point for me: Naipaul's attitude toward Trinidad with Armah's attitude toward Ghana (sc. "attitude(s) toward Trinidadians/Ghanians"? maybe, that's where it gets tricky. Still of course V.S.'s recent tendency to run off at the mouth and let the venom get the better of him is troubling.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 27 November 2003 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Haven't we been here before

Rock and roll is about to die

The most popular male singer is a white guy with a typical white rock and roll background who has a lot of middle aged middle class fans that have never before even remotely cared about rock and roll

The most popular female singer is partly a soul singer, and her lyrical theme is quite familiar: Everything was sooo much better in the good old days, while today everything is just shit. Heard it before? :-)

The most popular rock and roll bands' latest album is a prog-influenced double concept album where half of the tracks hardly contain any rock and roll at all.

All of these three acts appeal to a lot of critics who have previously not been particularly into soul or rock music at all.

3 points for naming the artists and the year.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 27 November 2003 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

That's very tough.

― Pete S, Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

hip-hop is:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000039PW.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Billy, my guess is 1978.

1. This is either Bruce Springsteen with 'Darkness on the edge of Town' or Elvis Costello with 'This Year's Model'.

2. Would have said Patti Smith or Kate Bush but they don't fit. Is it some mega-selling MOR artist that no-one listens to anymore?
Linda Ronstadt? (She's good though).

3. This has to be Fleetwood Mac with 'Tusk'.

― Pete S, Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

The year is 1975. The artists are Bruce Springsteen, Diana Ross, and Led Zeppelin.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:48 (twenty-two years ago)

The whole thing about Em is that he busts through the race barrier and has black fans.

So did Elvis too. But he was still probably the main reason why the African American community left rock'n'roll behind after some time.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:49 (twenty-two years ago)

In 1975, black people had given up rock'n'roll about 10-15 years ago.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 27 November 2003 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(so had white people)

I didn't read the directions closely enough. Physical Graffiti didn't appeal to non-previous rock fans, I would assume, so I must be wrong.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

1978, Billy Joel, Olivia Newton John, Fleetwood Mac?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

2000: santana, faith hill, radiohead (doh! santana's not white!)

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

1968: Bob Dylan, Aretha Franklin, The Beatles, maybe?

― Patrick (Patrick), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

If 1968 is the answer (but it isn't as Bob Dylan wasn't at all commercially big at the time), that woman would be Janis Joplin rather than Aretha Franklin.

Anyway, the only time when people were seriously speaking about rock being dead was in the late 50s/early 60s. And they were right too. The rock that re-emerged with "Jumping Jack Flash" in 1968 (between that there was pop only) was a completely different kind of rock than 50s rock'n'roll.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

"It was sometime in the middle of 1968, a year or so after Sgt. Pepper, that the rock-is-dead movement began, and it has done nicely ever since, picking up adherents at a slightly slower rate than the music itself." Robert Christgau, Village Voice, Nov. 1970

― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing is dying, Geir is insane, end of thread.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 28 November 2003 00:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm going to plump for

2. Olivia Newton John

thanks gabbneb

― Pete S, Friday, 28 November 2003 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Speaking of Olivia Newton-John, her genre (housewife adult contemporary pop) has been very much commercially alive since it first appeared (which was probably way before rock)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 28 November 2003 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

REVIEW WCW THUNDER! MAN, THAT GEIR HONGRO IS ONE SWEET PIECE OF ASS, GOOD WORK ILX! I'D LIKE TO PUMP HIP-HOP'S CORPSE FULL OF MANFAT. SCOTTKEITHISFATLOL2003. CHINDIG!

― Some Random Fag, Friday, 28 November 2003 02:04 (twenty-two years ago)

manfat?

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Friday, 28 November 2003 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Geir, have you read The Accidental Evolution of Rock and Roll?

― tom west (thomp), Friday, 28 November 2003 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Marcello are you only agreeing with Geir's original post because you feel like being contrary or do you have any reasons?

Even taking them out of context, they don't really make much sense, and are even contradictory.

eg. surely Missy's (only intermittent) glorification of the good ol' non-violent days place her at odds with Eminem's alleged glorification of violence? Therefore wouldn't her apparent idea of "good" hip hop probably exclude Eminem? If these two acts' popularity is being used to make a single point, you'd expect them to be more in line with eachother.

Of course that's all assuming that Geir knows what the fuck he's talking about, which is foolish - people no more listen to Missy because she bangs on about a golden age than they listen to Busta because he wants some courvoisier. And I'd love to know who apart from Geir actually thinks Eminem singing instead of rapping is in fact a good idea.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 28 November 2003 07:15 (twenty-two years ago)

benzino

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not sure how much missy, outkast, or especially eminem have to do with hip-hop anymore

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not sure just how much any of them's work has represented the 'lifeblood' of hip-hop at any point really either

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:10 (twenty-two years ago)

also bob dylan's biggest hit was in 1968

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

and does geir actually like 'pass the dutch'??? why?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

eg. surely Missy's (only intermittent) glorification of the good ol' non-violent days place her at odds with Eminem's alleged glorification of violence? Therefore wouldn't her apparent idea of "good" hip hop probably exclude Eminem? If these two acts' popularity is being used to make a single point, you'd expect them to be more in line with eachother.

'busa rhymes' -- not v. non-violent. and i'm not sure which missy records are backwards looking, to be quite honest, though she's gone downhill of 'miss e' and i haven't heard the last two lps..

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the last missy and presumably the current missy were very old school enamored

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"'busa rhymes' -- not v. non-violent. and i'm not sure which missy records are backwards looking, to be quite honest, though she's gone downhill of 'miss e' and i haven't heard the last two lps.. "

Under Construction could be considered to be a *reaction* to Da Real World, which was pretty explicitly Missy's gangsta album.

I'm not sure how you could consider her to have gone downhill without hearing the last two albums. Mind you she really *has* gone downhill on the new one. But Under Construction was very good.

I agree with Cinniblount that none of the acts Geir references are exactly staple/typical hip hop acts, so anything that they might do that is different to what they used to do is not particularly a sign of the genre's impending death.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

'gone downhill': based on 'pass that dutch' (which is a real, hallmark dud) and to be honest her persona more than rekkids. didn't hate 'work it' and actually liked 'gossip folk' but... shit maybe i'll buy 'UC' -- it's 8 quid now...

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

'pass that dutch' is far from dud, just depends how sick you are of that style

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:30 (twenty-two years ago)

well... no, it is terrible. crap non-rhymes, silly fx, boring unfunky shuffle.

but if outkast, em, and missy aren't hip-hop -- what is?

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Like speaking in rhythm on top of instruments playing was never done before hip-hop?

of course it's not a matter of what was done first. there was something before coldplay, too. hip hop has established itself as an important genre that can't be undone.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 28 November 2003 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Whoever said 1968 get's the points. I was thinking from a UK perspective so the artists were Scott Walker, Dusty Springfield and the Beatles.

But Bobby D and Aretha or Janis J would fit just fine too. The point remains the same that saying that a whole genre is about to die, and Geir's the only one doing so, from the works of 3 artists is pointless in the extreme.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

well... no, it is terrible. crap non-rhymes, silly fx, boring unfunky shuffle.

that's not very good criticism (HOW are the rhymes bad, silly fx?! boring and unfunky?!), but i can't really think of good praise either, oh well

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:41 (twenty-two years ago)

boring=boring

fx: silly MJ noise, silly countdown, crap awards ceremony bit

it's less a record than an advert for Missy Inc
it is indeed a pain in the rectum

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 11:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever happens to it, I'm really sick of rapping. (This thread has enough stupid stuff on it, that I feel okay adding an off-topic statement of taste.)

i don't understand, hip hop has melodies!

Yes, it still has some melodic elements here and there, often more in the more crossover stuff, but can you seriously deny that it is less rich melodically (and harmonically) than most popular music, ever? The melodic fragments tend to be even simpler and less developed than what you get in most pop. I won't deny that there is something aesthetically radical about the way it has pared things down, but I find it lacking. Even ryhthmically, there is often not all that much going on, though the rhythms are very front and center.

(I don't think it's about to die, incidentally.)

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 28 November 2003 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

which pop are you comparing it with? i have trouble dissociating sonix from melodies, perhaps, but to me 'nation of millions' is fizzing with melodies. today's 'tune in my head' is jaz-z's 'i just wanna love you'.

― enrique (Enrique), Friday, 28 November 2003 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

which pop are you comparing it with?

The R&B that came before hip-hop will do, I think; most rock; certainly the American pop music that dominated prior to the development of rock; Afro-Latin popular music; Greek popular music.

In hip-hop singing (which is partly melodic) is (mostly) replaced by non-melodic rapping, so right there you have a big loss of melodic possibilities, and it's hardly compensated for by the way samples or programmed musical lines are used in the accompaniment. I don't see how there is really much argument about hip-hop being less melodic, or at least, a lot simpler melodically. Jay-Z's "Big Pimpin'," for instance, built around one little snippet of melody from an Egyptian pop song. (I don't know "I Just Wanna Love You.") It's been a little while since I've heard It Takes a Nation of Millions, but I don't remember a lot of melodic development, though I think its use of sound is varied enough to make up for that to some extent.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 28 November 2003 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(Also, most African pop music that I've heard--and I'm afraid there's a lot I haven't heard--has a lot more going on melodically than hip-hop does. Actually, a lot of it is too "sweet" sounding for me.

And of course Indian and middle eastern pop/popular music has generally been very melodically-oriented, even if there were also strong rhythms involved.)

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 28 November 2003 16:55 (twenty-two years ago)

cybele, email me, i have something to send you!

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 28 November 2003 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

CYBELE DON'T DO IT, IT'S A TRAP

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 28 November 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"'pass that dutch' is far from dud, just depends how sick you are of that style"

What if you're sick of crappy half-arsed choruses?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 29 November 2003 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

someone on here thought the "Pass That Dutch" video was actually for the "Grindin'"-styled track she flips into at the end of it (sorry don't know the title as yet), which must say something.

― robin carmody (robin carmody), Saturday, 29 November 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The most popular rap duo's latest album is a prog-influenced double concept album where half of the tracks hardly contain any rapping at all.

as far as i know you don't need no rap to be hip hop. that's why it's called hip hop and the other thing is called hip hop. granted, a lot of the times the two merged, but they don't have to.

genres (ha) don't die, they just evolve or change into something new.

― sam p (lull), Monday, 1 December 2003 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The better question - do black artists flee genres when whites "mainstream" invade them?

― Hmm, Monday, 1 December 2003 05:25 (twenty-two years ago)

When was the last time whites "mainstream" invaded a genre? Disco?

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 1 December 2003 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

The better question - do black artists flee genres when whites "mainstream" invade them?
I now have a mental image of the intrepid Funkadelic colonists guarding the ramparts of Fort Mothership and tightening their grip on their Bop Guns when they hear Bootsie Revere ride through town yelling "To Arms! To Arms! The Honkeys are Coming! The Honkeys are Coming!"

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 1 December 2003 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

And then we see, approaching on the horizon: three very disoriented-looking Brothers Gibb.

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 1 December 2003 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

'hip hop needs food, badly'
'hip hop is about to die'

― tylero, Monday, 1 December 2003 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i played I Luv You for Zeith Murray yesterday.
he said he was going to burn it for method and eric(K?)
i also gave him an Aldo Bender and Musik Ohne Bass from that
comp that i forget the name of. but i burned it for him
too. so i think i might have saved hip hop last night.
so don't worry. because its starting.

― dz, Monday, 1 December 2003 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry Keith.

― dz, Monday, 1 December 2003 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

disco was born to die

― patrick hernandez, Monday, 1 December 2003 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

>>The better question - do black artists flee genres when whites "mainstream" invade them?
I now have a mental image of the intrepid Funkadelic colonists guarding the ramparts of Fort Mothership and tightening their grip on their Bop Guns when they hear Bootsie Revere ride through town yelling "To Arms! To Arms! The Honkeys are Coming! The Honkeys are Coming!" <<

Which is pretty weird, since said Funkadelic colonists spent so many early years invading the genre territory of Black Sabbath, Frank Zappa, and the Beatles (and doing it really well, don't get me wrong).

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

+ bowie

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

>>as far as i know you don't need no rap to be hip hop. that's why it's called hip hop and the other thing is called hip hop.<<

And after a quarter century, I STILL don't understand the difference between hip hop and hip hop. Or hip hop and rap. Or rap and rap. Or whatever. (I'm sure there have been plenty of threads trying to figure out when these became two different kinds of music, right? If so, please send links.) And while I get how you can have hip hop without rapping, is the opposite true as well? (Even if you don't count the hundreds of examples of rapping in rhythm that existed before "Rapper's Delight"? I have no opinion on this myself, as you might imagine. Just wonder what the party line dogma is these days.)

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

disco was born to die

I thought it was born to be alive

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

duh, it was born to boogie (like bocephus)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)


I thought it was born to be alive
No, it fights to stay alive, stay alive ooh ooh ooh ooh stay aliiiiii-yeeiiiive-yeeeiiiiiive-yeeeivvve.
(for maximum effect, read the above post in a flat monotone.)

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"maximum effect"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 1 December 2003 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Disco died around 1980 and nobody sane would miss it.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Last Night a Hongro Wrecked My Life

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

after "Goodnight Tonight", you mean? I gotta admit that was good

― dave q, Monday, 1 December 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

"Goodnight Tonight" is one of the worst things McCartney has ever been involved with.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

The same say "Another One Bites The Dust" is by no competition the worst Queen track ever.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

"involved with"!? I know he's your hero but you can't blame anyone but him! Except for Cerrone who he ripped off. Cerrone did new wave records after 1980 so you might be right. Although Amanda Lear hung in there for a few more years. Also, are you trying to tell us you personally like "Fight from the Inside" or "Body Language" better than "Dust"

― dave q, Monday, 1 December 2003 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

They are about the same. "Dust" has become more famous, and therefore worse.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 December 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Disco died around 1980<<

I guess nobody told Madonna. (or Shannon, or Samantha Fox, or Laura Branigan, or Expose', or Gloria Estefan, or Stacey Q, or Dead or Alive, or Frankie Goes to Hollywood, or Taylor Dayne, or Kylie Minogue, or L'Trimm, or Leann Rimes, or several million people in Munich, Milan, Miami, Mexico, and several places starting with letters other than M as well. Then again, I suppose they don't count. So never mind.)

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

None of those were disco. Dance music, yes, but not disco.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 1 December 2003 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

So what's the difference, exactly? Their haircuts? (Probably not even that. I mean, if I had said Guns N Roses or Fat Boy Slim or House of Pain or Shania Twain or Dizzie Rascal, all of whom are MAYBE dance music without being disco, you might have a point. But I didn't.)

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 22:08 (twenty-two years ago)

And I didn't even mention house music or '90s teen pop or Mantronix or Billy Ocean or Imagination or the Weather Girls, and I barely touched on Latin freestyle and hip-hop and techno and electro, all of which are at very least CHILDREN of disco. But in many, many cases, records in those categories just plain ARE disco. Which is to say they sound EXACTLY like what would've been called disco in the late '70s. (So does the beat on lots of AC/DC and John Cougar Mellencamp and Billy Squier records, but I'm trying not to confuse you.) Whether they called THEMSELVES disco is pretty irrelevant.

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

no one told Deee-Lite, Prince Paul or the Neptunes either, if we're going to be on the wall about it

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 1 December 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Or Michael Jackson or Prince. Though they're kinda minor, I guess.

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

(Deee-Lite, on the other hand, just plain sucked.)

― chuck, Monday, 1 December 2003 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

MJ's "Burn this Disco Out" was a coded warning perhaps. Like "ixnay on the iscoday (throat-slicing gesture)"

― dave q, Monday, 1 December 2003 22:44 (twenty-two years ago)

seven years pass...

So still waiting for rap to die Geir

― i love tampon spaceship (San Te), Friday, 21 January 2011 02:47 (fifteen years ago)

this was SO on the money! lol

though i think it's kinda going through a low point at the moment, but i reckon it'll perk back up in a year or two. and rap during an off year is still better than most genres in a good one.

― messiahwannabe, Friday, 21 January 2011 03:26 (fifteen years ago)

last year was a really good year for rap imo! (creatively, not commercially)

― knits you a baby (The Reverend), Friday, 21 January 2011 03:29 (fifteen years ago)

who's that most popular female singer?

― Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Friday, 21 January 2011 03:32 (fifteen years ago)

Missy

― Tyler/Perry's "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" (jaymc), Friday, 21 January 2011 03:33 (fifteen years ago)

(I'm assuming)

― Tyler/Perry's "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" (jaymc), Friday, 21 January 2011 03:33 (fifteen years ago)

face it guys! hip-hop is dying.

FACE IT

― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 21 January 2011 03:34 (fifteen years ago)

It's sad. It was a music genre.

― knits you a baby (The Reverend), Friday, 21 January 2011 03:36 (fifteen years ago)

I lay this wreath on hip-hops tomb
A gangster named Hongro sealed its doom :(

― i love tampon spaceship (San Te), Friday, 21 January 2011 06:00 (fifteen years ago)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TKXwE9GiqGg/Sc6hNTohGtI/AAAAAAAAACg/8ao07Om43c4/s320/RIP-Homies.jpg

― Blazes Boyband (Pillbox), Friday, 21 January 2011 06:04 (fifteen years ago)

ah, well, not awake as such...

It seems when Geir loses the arg, he just plain disappears from the thread.

― Mark G, Friday, 21 January 2011 14:12 (fifteen years ago)

"purist faves such as Jay-Z"

!!

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 21 January 2011 14:27 (fifteen years ago)

two months pass...

@knits - tbh i haven't been paying as much attention outside of chart rap the last couple of years, i'm sure i slept on some good stuff. so what stood out for you last/this year?

― messiahwannabe, Monday, 11 April 2011 08:42 (fourteen years ago)

one year passes...

i still like geir's comment that hip-hop will be the prog/calypso of 2013. it sounds prophetic.
― vahid (vahid)

― buzza, Monday, 31 December 2012 19:25 (thirteen years ago)

Rolling prog/calypso thread 2013... arrgh forget it

― dyslectic Christ Brown (longneck), Monday, 31 December 2012 20:48 (thirteen years ago)

i want disco that cites 50 cent and soca and was made on the moon in 2013!

― the late great, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:52 (thirteen years ago)

The best rapper is white...
The best golfer is black...
The best basketball player is Asian...

― sleepingbag, Monday, 31 December 2012 20:54 (thirteen years ago)

the best ilxer is from iran

― the late great, Monday, 31 December 2012 21:20 (thirteen years ago)

norway, morelike

― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Monday, 31 December 2012 21:22 (thirteen years ago)

rip hip hop, see you on the other side, big man

― mh, Monday, 31 December 2012 22:28 (thirteen years ago)

the whirlwind of death, i inhale it

― some dude, Monday, 31 December 2012 22:36 (thirteen years ago)

hip hop needs food, badly

― the late great, Monday, 31 December 2012 23:27 (thirteen years ago)

"needs food badly" will never not be funny to me

― too many encores (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:47 (thirteen years ago)

hip-hop jumped the shark

― bernard snowy, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:56 (thirteen years ago)

but that's okay

― bernard snowy, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:56 (thirteen years ago)

... because it's (still) bigger than hip-hop

― bernard snowy, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 00:57 (thirteen years ago)

and rap during an off year is still better than most genres in a good one.

This delusion, right chere...

― Cousin Slappy, Tuesday, 1 January 2013 05:36 (thirteen years ago)

and i'm gonna miss everybody

― Rolling "2 chainz" draadje (The Reverend), Tuesday, 1 January 2013 11:21 (thirteen years ago)

meet u at da crossroads, hip hop

― let's bitch about our stupid, annoying co-ilxors (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 January 2013 02:40 (thirteen years ago)

maybe this should be the new rolling hip hop thread title

― rap steve gadd (D-40), Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:25 (thirteen years ago)

So who's the Eric Clapton of hip-hop? Eminem? Paul Wall?

― Everything You Like Sucks, Thursday, 3 January 2013 03:34 (thirteen years ago)

lou reed

― Mark G, Thursday, 3 January 2013 10:30 (thirteen years ago)


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