Skinny Puppy: Classic or Dud?

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I can't remember if I asked this already. Anyway, I bought a CD of a live concert in Dresden today and I'm now deeply sad about never getting to see them live. At one point they numbered among my favorite bands and this CD is reminding me why. One reason they were so great is because whenever I would play them for the kids who felt like they listened to HARD music (ie, glam rock and metal), the oveall reaction would be, "Geez, you're so fucked in the head. This is EVIL!" That's the point, Jim-Bob. My synths beat your guitar flailings into the dust.

So, what do you all think? Is "The Choke" an unrecognized masterpiece of Canadian culture or what?

― Dan Perry, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Classic classic classic!! Completely changed my taste in music. The first time I heard them was on headphones in the car. I couldn't tell if it was the music or if the muffler was scraping against the road...

― James Annett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Gods etc. Pity I never saw them live, though I did see Ogre do a live acoustic version of "Testure" that was one of the freakiest things I've ever heard.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Classic, I'd say (although their last few albums were a bit samey). Easily one of the most disturbing live shows I've ever witnessed (1988 in Columbus, Ohio on the CLEANSE, FOLD AND MANIPULATE tour), rife with projected images of war attrocities, snuff films, vivisection etc. etc., all while Ogre splattered himself with blood, played with syringes and scalpels and crudely dissected a stuff dog onstage. Incredible. Oh, and the music was good too. Haha.

― alex in nyc, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

In terms of manipulating sound and production: a big bad dog of a classic. I remember the first time Last Rights came crashing out of my speakers. I was completely floored. It blew the door open on my musical tastes. Also underrated: cevin key's download.

― bnw, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

in my limited exposure: the worst song on the suburbia soundtrack, and that's even counting goddamned superchunk.

― ethan, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I'd been meaning to start this thread for weeks, marginally incredulous that it'd never been covered, but never got around to doing it. Puppy get a lot of credit, of course... but I, personally, have never been able to see their work in the glowing critical light in which it has been oft-placed. I come to this conclusion having listened to nearly every last bit of their output, courtesy of my huge-Puppy-fan close friend, who organized a two-year-long exposure of them to me while we were in high school. I am sure that my personal distaste for EBM and Cleopatra-type goth taints my critical objectivity in regard to SP. However, I feel this reaction of mine is also indicatory that, although they do occasionally change their style (the largely Key-driven more experimental tracks are often marginally intriguing), they are, more often than not, a just slightly more complex and able version of run-of-the-mill groups falling into the above two genres. In addition, they have some very seriously awful cover art. These circumstances bring me to something I feel highly qualified in compiling:

Skinny Puppy S/D For People Who Don't Like Skinny Puppy and/or Do Not Like Most 80s Gothy Stuff
Search: The Process, their last work, which doesn't sound much like their other work at all--less gothy and more emphasis on production and rock elements; Bites, their first work, which is a bit of an 80's synthy-industrial gem, ocassionally veering towards the bulk of their other output but sufficiently different enough to be interesting; Remission, the release immediately following Bites, which sounds like incidental music to The Ghostbusters at times; the new cEvin Key release, A Ghost In Each Room, and most of his other noodling, ambientish solo work (exception contained below); and the bulk of the work from Goettel and Key's other project, Download (The Eyes of Stanley Pain is fantastic).
Destroy: The extremely over-praised limp industrial rock of Too Dark Park and Last Rights; VIVIsectVI, in which SP are the most blatant about their political beliefs; Mind: TPI, Cleanse Fold and Manipulate, and the entire rest of their middle period; any solo outing of and/or featuring Nivek Ogre or worse, Bill Leeb; all Key solo projects making silly references to the consumption of cannabinoids in the title; tracks in which SP mock-tribute 80s hip-hop; and any upcoming reformation of the group with Genesis P-Orridge in place of D.R. Goettel.

― matthew m., Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Whoops, reverse the above descriptions of Bites and Remission. Sorry.

― matthew m., Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Fookin' classic, mate!

― Kodanshi, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Matthew, I was gonna say something about that. :)

I may be in the minority among Puppy fans, but I really think that _Bites_ is their best album. I mean, you've got "Assimilate", "The Choke", "Basement", "Love", "Church", "Social Deception", "Film", and "Icebreaker" all on the same album. How can that NOT be classic? Also, _Rabies_ is severely underrated, at least as far as its singles are concerned. "Tin Omen" is one of the best songs they ever recorded.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Whatta bunch of closet goths we are.

― Ally, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Ally, don't even go there. I have some Skinny Puppy CDs at my parents house. and the worse thing is, i actually rather like them. i feel strangely embarrassed about this, and it must be years since i played any of them. they are remarkably visceral, but theres that strange feeling that they're really very silly.

― gareth, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I am sure that my personal distaste for EBM and Cleopatra-type goth taints my critical objectivity in regard to SP.
Well, Skinny Puppy spawned a thousand electro bands. Many of whom try embarassingly hard to sound like Ogre on vocals. Are these lesser imitations their fault? Hardly. (Also the typical Cleo stereotyep as I know it is to have a screeching goth girl over limp electronic music. Not really Puppy-esque.)
In addition, they have some very seriously awful cover art.
That is part of the schlock horror fun. Have you ever seen their videos? Also, you defend the Process for its rock elements, but seem to slag Last Rights and Too Dark Park for the same thing. Neither of which seem anything like industrial-rock to me. The guitars are way too buried in the mix. The Process is such an abortion of an album, you can practically tell which parts were finished before Goettel died. They had sold their souls to American to make a more mass-appealing album and it backfired. And Last Rights is an obvious precursor to Download. You can hear the music and production and leaning that way.

― bnw, Friday, 7 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Puppy were far from the first EBM band. Front 242, Portion Control, and Klinik's earliest work all predate SP's popularized existence by several years. I never meant to imply, and don't believe I did, either, that I was blaming Puppy for the existence of 80s EBM. (Also, any reference to a Cleo stereotype of which I was heretofore aware veers more towards implying Laether Strip, Spahn, ASF, Rosetta Stone, and other such bands, other than, say, Christian Death.) On the contrary, I believe that Puppy are, as I noted, more complex, able, and ultimately, more interesting than these bands who imitated them and the other early EBM progenitors.

That is my relatively-unbiased critical appraisal. Overall, however, I think the most important thing to note is that my above list is made for the appreciation of SP by, as it clearly states, people such as myself who do not like most 80s goth, or have actually heard Puppy (probably something off of TDP) and have disliked it. If you liked them, by all means, enjoy Mind: TPI. Far be it from me to invalidate someone else's musical tastes.

― matthew m., Saturday, 8 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Classic! Colossal!
Damn, I woulda loved to have seen them live, they rockkked my late 80s world. 'Bite' and 'Rabies' are probably responsible for ruining my hearing. Too often, too loud through the headphones.
Amazing band though. I quite liked 'The Process', I still play it, it's dissapointing but its okay.

― DavidM, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

matt, we need to have a serious discussion about your skinny puppy obsession.

― ethan, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

― bnw, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Classic. Easily the best name to have ever been scrawled across a pencil case.

― Kim, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Only if we can talk about your Eminem obsession, Ethan. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 9 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eminem > skinny puppy.

― ethan, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I always like reading that character as a mouth, implying that Skinny Puppy devours Eminem in this case. That works!

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

'Mind:The Perpetual Intercourse' had a primitive, elemental vibe that disturbed, fascinated and intrigued. A dark twisted schizo- electronic avant-industrial sound pointing towards more chilling directions for samplerdelic music than the relentlessy cheery acid- house scene. Promising rather than adorable.

With 'Cleanse, Fold, and Manipulate', the clumsy skeletal rhythms, and screaching vocals had begun to grate. And by 'VIVIsectVI' I'd lost interests. Worth a listen if Front 242, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle are your scene though.

― stevo, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

A dark twisted schizo- electronic avant-industrial sound

In case anyone was wondering, this is exactly what I meant in my original post about not agreeing with much of SP's critical praise. I have read many Puppy descriptions bearing phrases like the above, but it totally befuddles me how Puppy could be construed as "dark," "twisted," "schizo," or even "avant-industrial," for that matter. I know this is likely a terrible thing to say, but their aural aesthetic seriously reminds me of the visual aesthetic of a band like GWAR. For me, Puppy's music is, on the whole, really sort of schlocky (as someone above also noted), jointly due to two interconnected reasons: a) the cheesy gothishness of it all, and b) the way the 80s industrial sound has dated. I don't feel that, unlike some other uses of archaic technology, that really tinny hammer-hitting-anvil sample located on nearly every mainstream 80s EBM record ever has dated well at all. It sounds really silly instead of menacing or "twisted." Of course, since Puppy themselves clearly had an element of humour to their work, this ends up not being [critically-speaking] so bad, after all. Once again, in an effort to truly convince Ethan that I really am obsessed with SP, I'm just expounding on my personal reasons for disliking them.

― matthew m., Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Did a lot of people experience a lull with mid-era Skinny Puppy? I was introduced to them via selected tracks off of _Remission_ and _Bites_ ("Smothered Hope", "Sleeping Beast", "Assimilate", "The Choke") and, after hearing the entirety of _Remission_ and Bites_, thought they were amazing. Then my best friend bought _VIVISect VI_, which I thought was, um, really sad and awful. I gave them another chance with _Rabies_ and, by and large, loved everything they did from that point forward. Even now, I have no real inclination to ever play _Cleanse, Fold, And Manipulate_ or _Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse_ and I have no intention of ever getting _VIVISect VI_.

Anyone want to stand up for those albums, or did they really lose their way for a good chunk of the 80s? And why am I JONESING to hear "Tormentor"?

― Dan Perry, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

"Now is the only thing that's real." That's all I have to say. Well, okay, I'll just mutter "Deep Down Trauma Hounds" to myself...

There's a live version of "Harsh Stone White" that I think blows the studio cut into the next room...

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Interstingly enough, "Deep Down Trauma Hounds" is the only song from their middle era that I really love. Others, like "Testure" and "Dig It", I tolerate, but only in a live or remixed recording.

It is FRIGHTENING how great a song "Warlock" is. I must listen to it NOW.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 10 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...

I enjoyed the Process a lot because of Dwaynes synth work on Morter and Amnesia, it's so trippy. And I thought Hardset Head was incredible. Bites, ViviSectVI, and Last Rights are personall faves. People argue about Last Rights but I get so much meaning from Knowhere? and Mirrorsaw. That is some of their HEAVIEST recordings. Now Im not a big fan of Rabies except for Worlock, Rodent, and Tin Omen. I think that Dwaynes synths lacked a lot in the other tracks.

― Kris Day, Sunday, 9 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

nine months pass...

...17 years later (and one year later from the above banter), the music & lyric of skinny puppy still holds timeless qualities with occasional prophetic overtones. Yes, while they had "creepy" all wrapped up and ready to go in varying degrees of severity, the most sinister aspects of a song could be punctuated with the silliest of sample or antic to achieve a tongue-in-cheek contrast in attitude. Intertwining contradictory contrasting elements aplenty often made them a most disorienting aural and visual experience. Though they had the rare ability of prying emotions out of you...disturbing emotions I hadn't a name for, I found them to be therapeutically inspiring, and at times I was almost on the floor laughing at their live shows (esp. '86, '87 & '88). Although this music was electronically driven, it possessed a strong essence from centuries past.

For those who had trouble with a particular cd, clear your mind of any false expectations, go back to it and take another serious listen. Usually by 11th listen: you will find in what was once considered "unlistenable", a certain gratification (unlike any) that will hit you unexpectedly and bring with it unbelievable staying power.

Here, was truly an addictive brand of sonic seduction (in my book)... one that ferments quite nicely!

― Sarah P., Monday, 30 September 2002 15:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I have to admit that I have long loved the Pup, but the only thing that I can really think to add to this thread right now is the fact that I think it's totally classic that our pal cEVIN used to be in the ultra-new wavey Images In Vogue. The photos of him on the album sleeves are even more classic: a bunch of pretty-boy heavily made up new wavesters with this guy skulking in the background, also heavily made up but with this menacing glare that made you think he was about to eat the other members alive. That's our cEVIN!

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 30 September 2002 15:16 (twenty-three years ago)

sean: even back then, I think our cEVIN knew just the type of sounds he really wanted to do - and he gave them to us...right up the jaxi!!!

― sarah p, Monday, 30 September 2002 18:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Sean, I did go find those two Images In Vogue AMG reviews. Yay! No photos, but still - finally!

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 30 September 2002 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll see if I can scan 'em in for you. They're CLASSIC.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 30 September 2002 21:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, kids! Time to play the SPOT THE FUTURE MEMBER OF SKINNY PUPPY GAME!

http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~oneiros/pix/iiv-1.jpg http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~oneiros/pix/iiv-2.jpg

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 30 September 2002 22:22 (twenty-three years ago)

Dan is right about Bites. It's all about "Love"

― Steph (Steph), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 00:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually, I do have something to add. Dan, you're insane: without a doubt VI VI sect VI is my favourite Puppy album, and I loved Bites and Remission. I think it's where the band really matured, where they were finally able to work with rhythms without blotting out the melody (ala Mind), where the samples were both interesting and relevant (on earlier albums they seemed to be selected mostly because they were weird and not necessarily because they had anything to do with the track). I'd say it's also where they proved they could be really melodic and atmospheric but obv. "Love" proved that earlier. And I really think that people who love Rabies really love it because it's Ministry.

By the way, VI VI sect VI had the BEST LONGBOX EVAH.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 00:15 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm with Sean: Vivi sect VI is great.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 00:30 (twenty-three years ago)

! ! I think I'm going to print those out and use them as this year's Xmas wrap.

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 02:21 (twenty-three years ago)

...ever notice at that particular point in any & all versions of 'inquisition', you think you hear your phone ringing?...

― sarah p, Tuesday, 1 October 2002 18:59 (twenty-three years ago)

You know the part!! ...where it sounds like Satan flushing his toilet.

― Sarah P, Tuesday, 1 October 2002 22:21 (twenty-three years ago)

three months pass...

is this thread still going?

― moogy, Thursday, 23 January 2003 23:45 (twenty-three years ago)

It should be.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 23 January 2003 23:50 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't listen to Skinny Puppy. This is fairly rare for me, that music has such strong emotional resonance that it's just kinda too painful to listen to. My college roommate during my sophomore year was a *huge* Skinny Puppy fan - the complete discography, posters, the whole bit. I had only been marginally aware of them previously. But my roomie was a total asshole - screwing his girlfriend while I was there, bouncing into the room on mushrooms at 3am and blasting the Puppy at insane volumes while I was trying to sleep, stealing his friends credit cards, losing my stuff, destroying my music, etc. I grew to hate the band just because I hated him so much.

A year later he was drunk and diving in a river in Virginia and he died cracking his head on the river bottom - he was by himself, so when he hit the bottom, he was knocked out and he drowned.

So now when I hear Skinny Puppy it's nothing but bad associations. Kinda neat audio-collage technique they developed tho, I guess.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 24 January 2003 00:08 (twenty-three years ago)

ok Dan, let's go...

...and don't forget "deadlines" (that torrid guitar)!

― sarah, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Okay, I'm bringing Puppy albums to work tomorrow. I MUST HEAR THEM.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Last Rights is in my top ten albums of all time. In it, they dropped most of their cheesy gothness and achieved a unique, quasi-organic/chaotic sound which I really like (and can't describe well). Although, I still like them when they're being cheesy goths.

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think I could put any one SP cd in a top 10 list. There are tracks of each that knock me out. "Cheesy goth" isn't a description I'd give to SP's older material. "Cheesy goth" might be a more appropriate description for Tear Garden's "Tired Eyes Slowly Burning", which had crap on it that I have the grestest fondness for. I think what makes SP's material so enigmatic was its contrasts and contradictions...and strange how their material I used to categorize as "unlistenable" (white noisy and obnoxious), ended up being my most off the wall favorites: "punk in park zoo's", "mirror saw(dub)", "scrapyard", "brak talk", and "bark".

― sarah p, Tuesday, 4 February 2003 23:47 (twenty-three years ago)

I need to relisten to their mid-period stuff, I think. That's when I lost touch with what they were doing and just didn't connect with them; I bet things would be different now. (Then again, I spent much of today play "The Call" by The Backstreet Boys on repeat, so maybe 80s industrial will be too jarring for my brain tomorrow, heh.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 23:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I hear that the Pup were a huge influence on the Backstreet Boys, Dan.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 00:13 (twenty-three years ago)

By "cheesy goth" I meant "excessive horror movie sampling" pretty much. They are still holding at #2 for the most sampling band, pretty good for a defunct one. http://www.sloth.org/samples-bin/samples/group?summary

Although, I too thought Last Rights was unlistenable for a year after I bought it until I final saw the light (and it was dark).

― fletrejet, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 01:21 (twenty-three years ago)

I remember it came out (Last Rights that is) right around the time I had my first and so far only extended real bout of fear about the fate of the world, on an environmental level, at least. It was the perfect and horrifying soundtrack to same.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 01:32 (twenty-three years ago)

i used to be last rights
but now i'm vivisectvi
classic

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 06:51 (twenty-three years ago)

When "last rights" was released, I could only listen to the non-ogre track - those being too intensely charged, too gutwrenching. It was only a few years ago I could delve into that cd & appreciate it as a whole piece...and a monumental piece it is!

Ah, but don't forget, we have more "cheese" to look forward to: Live Braps & outakes (84 to '92)to be out soon...

― sarah p, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 21:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The urban legend goes that Ogre ODed or had some kind of drug complication while recording "Knowhere?" and the sounds of it ended up on the final release. Not true, but Ogre does give his finest vocal performances on "Last Rights"

― fletrejet, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:22 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, he supposedly went into a convulsion during that recording, at the end...true or not, who knows.

But I always thought "love in vein" on Back & Forth Vol.4 was somehow far more gutwrenching than the "last rights" version. I dunno, something about that one has the darkest warp to me.

― sarah p, Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:57 (twenty-three years ago)

skinny puppy is great!

vivisect vi, bites, and rabies are my favorites i think.

i swear... mark my words... in my next few years, if we haven't started seeing it already as electro clash folds over itself... etc etc... skinny puppy and the like will become references for new underground bands... (if they already secretly aren't...)

there's too much to mine and shove off of...
m.

― msp, Thursday, 6 February 2003 18:22 (twenty-three years ago)

I seem to recall the moment SP hit the circuit, other acts almost instantly borrowed off their sounds and images, taking it to their own extremes - some did it well and cashed in (we know who they are), and others tried and failed miserably. So I think we've already seen its influences played out ...unless it gets extremely hybridized into ultra ultra "bubblegum" industrial. But I think that's already happened too. What next?

― sarah p, Friday, 7 February 2003 17:09 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Revive. I'm reviewing Brap and Ain't It Dead Yet for the AMG, and listening to the early demos on Brap shows how well they had already figured out the basics for mood and capturing the ear early on, while the later tracks showed just how brilliantly they could fuck with the formula -- the alternate arrangement of "Knowhere?" that's "Uranus Cancelled," the stumbling drum collage/murk on "All Eyes"...

(This is also an interesting thread in that I didn't expect to see contributions from Ally and Gareth when I reread it!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 18 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic! Inconsistent and hit-or-miss sometimes, but when they were good they were great.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 19 April 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, Dan Perry, the world is so small...

― Super-Kate (kate), Saturday, 1 May 2004 06:24 (twenty-two years ago)

'Dig It' was funky funky funky.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Saturday, 1 May 2004 07:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, Kate, it is small, but not as small as you think. I only know -of- Dan by his enthusiasm for SP by doing a search yesterday. His name kept popping up! :)

But hey, if anyone was upset about missing them live, they will get a chance very soon. They are touring extensively this year, first with a warm-up mini-tour in the U.S. in June (dates are still being announced), then Europe in July (dates also still being announced) and then a much larger tour of North America in late summer and the fall (no dates announced yet.) Whether you like the new album or not (release date: May 24th/25th), it would still be worth going to see them live. At least I think so. But I'm biased. ;)

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Saturday, 1 May 2004 11:58 (twenty-two years ago)

But by that logic you have to go see the Cure as well! ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 1 May 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Only if The Cure play somewhere smaller than Madison Square Garden will I go. Been there, done that, was very angry afterward. But if the rumors are true and they really are playing with Mogwai and Interpol, well, it will be hard to resist. :) I would love to see them at Radio City Music Hall again, but I have no idea of the kinds of places they can fill in the States anymore.

At least at a Puppy show I know I can stand up front and run the risk of getting non-descript bits of goop (and gods know what else) flung in my direction. Hey, this is appealing to some folks!

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Saturday, 1 May 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

some roommates of mine roadtripped and followed skinny puppy through part of their too dark park tour. they brought "puppy guts" in baby food jars back with them as souvenirs. classic.

― tricky disco, Saturday, 1 May 2004 18:50 (twenty-two years ago)

i saw down|aod |ive and they did a coup|e sp tracks. cevin key is just so fan-fucking-tastic to see |ive i think i'd rea||y enjoy the chance to see him again.

― dyson (dyson), Saturday, 1 May 2004 22:09 (twenty-two years ago)

OH MY I really have to see if/when they're coming to Boston. HOORAY BEING THE AGING CREEPY GUY AT A SHOW.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 1 May 2004 22:30 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm fairly sure 99.9% of attendees will fall into that category¡

― dyson (dyson), Saturday, 1 May 2004 23:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Nothing for Boston, yet, or NYC (where I'm anxiously waiting) for that matter.

While I think there's a good chance that a Boston date will be added soon, If they don't show up for the warm-up tour, they most definitely will hit it on the return trip. Rumor is that they are doing 20 dates on this side of the Atlantic before heading to Europe. They've only announced six shows in the States so far:

Portland- Roseland Theater June 11th
Seattle- Showbox June 12th
Chicago- Vic Theater June 15th and 16th (16th is sold out)
Philadelphia- Electric Factory June 23rd
Atlanta- Masquerade June 25th

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Saturday, 1 May 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

no canadian dates, wtf¿ they're only from here for christsakes¡

― dyson (dyson), Saturday, 1 May 2004 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Clear Channel (eww) is listing a Boston date now:

http://cc.com/event_detail.html?eventID=201842

Boston- Avalon June 19th

Tickets go on sale May 7th at 10am.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Monday, 3 May 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I have never been happier about receiving my income tax return than I am right now.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 3 May 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

What are you going to do, buy out the venue and have them put on a private performance while you sit there smoking a cigar on a lounge chair and drinking champagne?

(Which I think you should do, of course.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 May 2004 19:55 (twenty-two years ago)

DC date announced according to SPV's newsletter:

DC- 930 Club June 22nd

Oh, and I'll list the dates announced so far in Europe too:

Paris- La Locomotive July 11th
Amsterdam- Paradiso July 13th
Sweden- Arvika Festival July 15th
Germany- Zillo Festival July 17th
Belgium- Dour Festival July 18th
London- The Forum July 19th

Well at least I have some idea of what week they'll be in NYC, if not the actual day.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 17:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Full update of US tour so far as per SPV:

Fri June 11, 2004 Portland, OR Roseland Theater
Sat June 12, 2004 Seattle, WA Showbox
Tue June 15, 2004 Chicago, IL Vic Theater
Wed June 16, 2004 Chicago, IL Vic Theater
Thu June 17, 2004 Detroit, MI TBA
Sat June 19, 2004 Boston, MA Avalon Ballroom
Sun June 20, 2004 New York, NY Irving Plaza (YES!!!)
Mon June 21, 2004 New York, NY Irving Plaza (double YES!!!)
Tue June 22, 2004 Washington, DC 9:30 Club
Wed June 23, 2004 Philadelphia, PA Electric Factory
Fri June 25, 2004 Atlanta, GA Masquerade
Sat June 26, 2004 New Orleans, LA House of Blues
Sun June 27, 2004 Houston, TX Club V
Tue June 29, 2004 Denver, CO Ogden Theatre
Thu July 1, 2004 San Francisco, CA Grand Ballroom
Fri July 2, 2004 Los Angeles, CA Henry Fonda Theatre
Sun July 4, 2004 Anaheim, CA The Grove of Anaheim

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Thursday, 6 May 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!

I'll actually be in town. Hmm....

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 May 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG I JUST REALIZED THAT DUE TO MY IMPENDING "JUNE BACHELOR" STATUS I CAN REALISTICALLY GO TO THIS SHOW OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 16:38 (twenty-two years ago)

MY IMPENDING "JUNE BACHELOR" STATUS

Er?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 May 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

The wife is going to be off at a sumer program for most of June = I can go to any random show I want! Too bad there isn't a Lard reunion tour going on...

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

It must be said that the name "Nivek" is hilarious.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 May 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I am so ready for a burrito now.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 6 May 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

"It must be said that the name "Nivek" is hilarious."

Well, having two people named Kevin in the band was proably too confusing for their acid-fried brains.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 6 May 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

no canadian dates, wtf¿ they're only from here for christsakes¡

cEVIN and Ogre have been living in L.A. for over a decade now? It's really easy to spot cEVIN at a show...look for the Klingon.

So, otherwise, WTF about this whole reunion? Who is in the lineup besides Krompton and Ogilvie? Who's taking over for Goettel (r.i.p.)?

(Note: Skinny Puppy were my very first concert ever. I'm somehow feeling really NOT into this reunion, and I'm not sure why)

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 6 May 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

when i saw download it seemed dude from dead voices (can't recall his name right now) was doing the majority of dwayne's old role.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 6 May 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I never got to see them back-in-da-day, largely because by the time I could afford to go to concerts, they were breaking up.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, having two people named Kevin in the band was proably too confusing for their acid-fried brains.

I thought it was because spelling something backwards is "evil".

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 May 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, you know Canadian English. Besides, their only other option was to change both of their names to Gordon, and Nodrog is a little too Iced Earth for them.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 May 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hi, I'm Nivek and this is my bandmate Gnits."

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:04 (twenty-two years ago)

There is no replacement for Dwayne as far as band members go, but they have quite a few friends contributing to both the new album and the tour. They were looking for a second drummer for the tour, so I'm assuming that cEvin is going to be more on synth duty than drum duty. But that's only a guess, because I can't imagine what cEvin would be doing when not drumming other than that. As the actual contribution of Bill Leeb, oh, excuse me... Wilhelm Schroeder, is debatable at best on earlier works, it's certainly not the first time that it's only been The Kevins and Friends.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

The funniest thing is that "Kevin" is like the least "evil" name. It's not like Damien or Hunter or something backwards. It's Kevin=Nivek. This gives me the giggles.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I am surprised that there isn't some mega Vancouver show planned... people STILL talk about them there, and this is from people who were 12 when The Process was released.

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

"Dig It" is so CLASSIC. I even have an "evil" Skinny Puppy t-shirt.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

call me Recneps.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Is there a "good" Skinny Puppy t-shirt????

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.newmedialab.cuny.edu/laura/site/images/kokoro10_posi4.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 May 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

that is not a skinny puppy shirt.

― nosyd (dyson), Thursday, 6 May 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

WHY DO YOU HATE MR. BARRETT SO?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 6 May 2004 20:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't hate the playa, hate the game etc.

― NadAgnev Yrrep (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 May 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Still no Canadian dates? What, will they tour Canada after returning from Europe? Does anybody know the reason for this?

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 6 May 2004 22:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i think, actaully i may've heard something about ogre catching shit at the boarder in the past.

― nosyd (dyson), Thursday, 6 May 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Well this was supposed to be a mini-tour. A warm-up, with a much bigger tour to follow in the fall, after Europe. I can't see them leaving out Canada entirely and I'm sure they'll get there eventually, but I am surprised they didn't hit Vancouver during this leg of the tour. Maybe they wanted to keep it relatively small at first while they work out the kinks? It has been awhile since they've toured as SP. I heard something about them not wanting to give too much advance notice for this "mini-tour". ::shrug::

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Thursday, 6 May 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Got my tickets!!! Both nights in NYC. Totally psyched!

Just had to share.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Saturday, 15 May 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Nicely done. Make sure they play "Deep Down Trauma Hounds".

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 May 2004 20:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i promised to a friend to go see the wildhearts on june 19th and now i am going to miss the skinny puppy boston show. but they play nyc on sunday so i could sleep in the park and go see it by i am not 18 anymore.

so is this a mini-tour or what?

― kephm, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Mini tour before Europe, which basically kicks off a huge, and I mean huge, tour. According to a radio interview with Ogre just last night, they expect to wrap this one up around December or January and also plan on hitting places they never went to before. They will be back in NA in the fall.

Oh, and Alex? I don't think I have that kind of power but if they happen to play it... um I guess you can give me credit if you really want to. ;)

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Friday, 21 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

gracias, that is great news!

― kephm, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

aye carumba! 20 years on and it's the same old story - i'm going to miss 'em live. someone shout out 'assimilate' for me. ta.

― stirmonster, Friday, 21 May 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw SP in about 1990. My wife (then my girlfriend) wanted to, and I went because I was her boyfriend and Godflesh were supposed to open up. They didn't. Justin had entry-visa problems (as he was wont to in those days) and we got some horrible band instead - Thought Industry, I think. Big disappointment for me. SP were okay; this was the tour when they had some kind of giant prop tree on the stage with stuff hanging off it. I heard the voice of Count Floyd in my head the whole night..."Ooooh, wasn't that scary, kids?"

The only album of theirs I really liked was Rabies. Feel free to write my opinion off completely.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Friday, 21 May 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG WTF I didn't realize there was actually a NEW ALBUM out. Maybe I didn't read the thread carefully enough earlier on, but I now have the new one in my hands...getting it into my ears will happen later today.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

If it's all unplugged power ballads, don't tell us.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Well....

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

hows the new album? danny from tool plays drums on a track!

― chaki_burger (chaki), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

ive only heard half of it but it sounds a lot like the process, a little more programmed.

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

SP don't get enough credit for the scavenger hunt their samples lay out. 1,000,000 clues about kick-ass cult film, television, apocrypha etc; a big educational ave. for me, anyway

(like the process, eh? hrm ...)

― rejoinder, Tuesday, 25 May 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Holy crap, this new album is like the soundtrack to Doom III, Quake IV or something. Rabies ahoyyyyy

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

My tickets turned up this morning for the London show.

Once more, ilX makes me spend all my money.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 05:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm.. hey Dan, where did you get the CD of that Dresden gig you mention right at the start? A good friend of mine flew all the way from Aus to Germany to see them in Dresden in 2000 (I think it was) for some show with other noise bands ( sort of Ant-Zen Glasto, or something I recall), and I know he mini-disced the show. If its a bootleg of something like his recording, that would tickle me greatly.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 06:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The Doomsday CD is pretty easily obtained from a number of sources. I think I ordered mine from Amazon of all places.

As for the new album.... it's kicking my ass. Hmm, maybe I should have mentioned there was a new album to go with the tour earlier, eh? :)

I wouldn't say it's like The Process (which has grown on me) all that much. Yeah, some of the elements are there, but it's more of a progression from that and other avenues they have explored before and since. I don't absolutely love everything on the album, but I could safely say there isn't anything I outright hate, which puts it ahead of Rabies (Fascist Jock Itch anyone?) and The Process (Cult... ugh) as far as I'm concerned. And there are at least five tracks that I really, really like (I'mmortal, Ghostman, Use Less, Goneja and DaddyuWarbash.) More are really growing on me each time I listen to it.

One might be tempted to say it's more accessible, and in many ways it is. Those that might have been turned off by Ogre's vocals before (never an issue for me... far from it) might find this one much easier to listen to. Some of the songs are downright catchy. Their sense of humor is also much more evident this time. Yeah, they're in a better mood than they were with... well, everything else, but I'm certainly not going to fault them that. People expecting to hear a rehash of older stuff will be disappointed, I'm sure. As for me, I've had it on repeat since yesterday. I'm really looking to seeing some of this stuff done live.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I sense Dan's happiness before he even posts here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 12:07 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the CD I was talking about in my original post:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005NT2V/qid=1085579085/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9644138-0400640?v=glance&s=music

I'm completely psyched for this new album, shocker. Also, "Fascist Jock Itch" was probably the one time that the Ministry pastiche craze of the time actually worked.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

more accessable¿ crap¡
i may be in for a let down when i buy this today.
i want noise dammit - i want dystortion and screaming i want vivisect again¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

'Tis the season for industro-revivaxxx! Ministry, Front242, now SP?! H

― Baaderoni (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

dyson, you are in for stinging disappointment.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

should i even buy it¿
(although, we all know i will)

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, to each his own and all that, Dan, but after all these years, I still can't listen to Fascist Jock Itch without cringing and reaching for the skip. And I liked Ministry at that time! :)

Dyson, yeah, you'll probably be disappointed if you're expecting Vivisect Vi... or any other SP album for that matter. And when I say "accessible," I mean accessible for Skinny Puppy, not in general. I don't think we'll see their videos in heavy rotation on MTV any time soon. Screaming is there, but it's at a minimum. Same goes for samples.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

i always thought vivisect vi was a pretty accessible album. the second half gets pretty intense, but it's no too dark park. maybe it's just my warped perception of what accessible is, but it does have testure on it...

― tricky disco, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 14:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(also, i'd like to use this thread to publicly acknowledge my hate for the way the older skinny puppy albums have been re-released on cd. am i the only one who abhors this? the mind:tpi release is particularly lame as it has tracks from a later album on it. actually the one i really hate is the bites and remission combination.)

― tricky disco, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

actually the one i really hate is the bites and
remission combination

Wasn't that one around since the late eighties?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

My perception of such things is also pretty warped, even more so when it comes to Skinny Puppy. :) Basically, if it doesn't sound like Knowhere? or Antagonism or well, pick one, I think it's more accessible for them. Vivisect Vi was the most accessible. Time will tell with TGWOTR but I do know that at least one person who ran screaming from earlier Puppy actually likes what she's heard so far.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

The only thing worse than what Nettwerk did with the CD re-releases is what they did to the DVD releases of the video collection and Ain't It Dead Yet?

I don't mind the extra tracks on the CDs so much, but why the hell did they put the 12" version of Dig It in place of the album version on M:TPI? And if I want the album version, I have to buy the 12" comp?! WTF?

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

something like that, ned. actually iirc, the original cd release combined the two. i think the best versions of both bites and remission are the cassettes.

what's even more annoying is that different versions of the cds have come out over the years (bites and remission being guilty on this count i believe).

― tricky disco, Wednesday, 26 May 2004 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the best versions of both bites and remission are the cassettes.

OTM OTM OTM OTM OTM OTM OTM

Although if you made me choose between the cassette versions of "Assimilate" and "The Choke" and the CD versions (which IIRC are the remixes) I would be PISSED.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Cripes, are we still discussing this? I thought we all agreed "Classic"!

Haven't heard the new one. Dare I?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

i just went and check out greater wrong.

why did cevin have to patch things up with ogre- why couldn't he just have stayed in the studio and made another download album. or even just a sandwich or something.
that would've been much better.

― dyson (dyson), Friday, 28 May 2004 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

That bad, eh?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 28 May 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

well,
cevin can make a pretty mean sandwich

― dyson (dyson), Friday, 28 May 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Opinions on this one have been split pretty cleanly right down the middle. Of course, that can be said about every other SP release too. I think a lot has to do with expectations. Those who disliked ohGr will probably be disappointed that Ogre didn't leave that all behind for TGWOTR and revert back to his old "style" of delivery. This seems to be one of the most common complaints at the moment, based on reviews I've seen so far.

I've heard about cEvin's skills with a sandwich (peanut butter I believe) before, so I don't think that was a total slam of the new album. :) And he even gets to sing on this one. The pitched-up vocals in Daddyu Warbash starting at :50 are his.

But hey, if you hate the album, at least the CD artwork is pretty darn nifty. Not that it should be a reason to buy it or anything, of course.

There is also a strong possibility, now that they have their own label (Hell-O dEathday, which might sound familiar to some,) that they will be re-releasing the back catalogue in a far more acceptable form.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:31 (twenty-one years ago)

after lots of years listening to the great SP i agree i wanted to hear some screams. i listened to it and thought this is nothing like the puppy from the old days. i've been waiting 10+ years for something new and have to say im very disapointed. i was hoping ohgr got the pop out of his system with the solo album and would bring back those hard ass beats and screams. music has got so much harder over the years since the last SP release that i was expecting something much harder.

― INSOMNIAC, Thursday, 3 June 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i actually really liked the solo ohgr stuff.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 3 June 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

im still waiting for a tear garden tour. well, not really.

― kephm, Thursday, 3 June 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

that would make me pee my pants

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Thursday, 3 June 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I loved the ohGr stuff as well. I don't think that affects why I like the new album either. I can just see why others might make a connection is all. There was always that "pop" thing going on just beneath the surface with many of the older songs, even as far back as Remission. Hell, especially Remission. At least I thought so when I first heard them. So now it's just a bit more obvious.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Thursday, 3 June 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Completely OTM; my favorite SP albums are _Remission_ and _Bites_ largely because of the skewed pop sensibilities of those albums.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 June 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

the new album is fuckin ace! i'm going to see them tomorrow night, can't wait!

― tricky disco, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Have fun! I've been trying my hardest to avoid spoilers until I see them this Sunday.

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I guess I shouldn't tell you about the twist at the end where Ohgr realizes he is actually the ghost of Bruce Willis...

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks kaliflwr! i won't post setlists or anything then...

isn't "hell-o deathday" the text that used to be etched on the runout grooves on some of the older puppy vinyls? my memory is a bit fuzzy at this point.

i think the "warped pop" comments on this thread are spot on, but what really gets me about the new one is the bass, drums, and overall cohesion. the vocals are also great.

― tricky disco, Tuesday, 15 June 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Hell O' Death Day was a project that was created by the Kevins to open for Chris and Cosey way back. They only did one show, but much of the material they wrote for it showed up on SP albums anyway (Remission, Bites, B&F 6, and Key's The Dragon Experience).

I do seem to recall it appearing etched on vinyl too, but I never trusted my memory very much either. It doesn't appear on my copies.

I'm so glad when others can see the "warped pop."

― kaliflwr (kaliflwr), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

OK, so London was last night...

Awesome. I was the victim of the cancelled London shows around 1990 (Godflesh were supposed to support at one of them, I think) and have been waiting 15 years for this. My memory must be worse than I thought, because the only songs I could pick out that I knew were "VX Gas Attack" and "Harsh Stone White" (which winz, as it's my favourite Puppy track EVAH!) - unless they did an entire show based around the new album? And I did have to leave during the first encore...

Ogre started off in a costume that looked a bit like Oderus Urunguous' old one crossed with Sauron's armour, but shed it after a couple of songs to start with the goop. Cool bit where he shot blood at soldiers on the backdrop like he was playing some sort of giant video game.

But aces - despite me being practically the oldest person there, and the only one who hadn't bought their entire outfit from Camden Market.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

i'll never understand the skinny puppy obsession. ever.

― Andrzej B. (Andrzej B.), Friday, 13 August 2004 10:06 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Nivek Ogre, weatherman.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, I guess. Neither classic nor dud. It's easy to fault 'em for simply mainstreaming "difficult" ideas generated by others (Throbbing Gristle, early Cab Voltaire) without really adding anything new to the mix, but everything occurs in context. TG had their influences, too...

While SP's "industrial" soundscaping, interest in extremes of human behavior, and horrorshow aesthetic may have been shopworn from go, their production was truly groundbreaking. Whatever you thought of Bites, the sheer sound of that record was remarkable in 1985 (especially on The Choke).

That's why, while it's clearly formative, Bites is the only Skinny Puppy record I harbor a lingering affection for. I'll listen to certain tracks from Mind: TPI and Cleanse, Fold and Manipulate occasionally, but after that, it's a wash...

― fuckfuckingfuckedfucker (fuckfuckingfuckedfucker), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

I gotta say Classic. They were a big part of my adolescence and one of the few industrial acts that I still bother listening to. Their stuff holds up much better than it really has any right to.

Last Rights and Too Dark Park are the cream of the crop IMO.

― paid in cigarettes (paid in cigarettes), Saturday, 26 August 2006 00:40 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

Has anyone watched the DVD of the 'greater wrong of the right' tour? I was expecting the worst, but it was actually pretty wicked. Wish I had a chance to see 'em live.

― Michael Servetus, Sunday, 18 November 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

this song is beautiful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFIlhgH4weE

did they have any other songs like this?

― damo tsu tsuki (r1o natsume), Monday, 28 September 2009 13:22 (sixteen years ago)

four months pass...

what's the backwards music at the end of "sleeping beast"?

― get a goal (rionat), Friday, 26 February 2010 12:06 (sixteen years ago)

awesome?

― Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Friday, 26 February 2010 14:16 (sixteen years ago)

it's a backwards sample of a song. sounds like could be 70s rock or something. anyone know?

― get a goal (rionat), Friday, 26 February 2010 14:20 (sixteen years ago)

wow, playing Bites for the first time in years and it holds up astonishingly well

"Dead Lines" is a beast of a song

― Bunsen burner, bubbles, IT'S ALIVE! whaaaaa-? (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 March 2010 19:45 (sixteen years ago)

seven months pass...

still bleating about these guys being way ahead of their time to people who don't care. unfairly ghettoized with the Industrial moniker. Too Dark Park and especially Last Rights feature some genuinely fucking wild, impressive production work.

― circa1916, Wednesday, 20 October 2010 10:58 (fifteen years ago)

four months pass...

you know what doesn't get mentioned enough, is Download

― goth barbershop quartet (DJP), Saturday, 5 March 2011 18:41 (fifteen years ago)

i knew a hella lot of industro-heads into Download in the mid-90s, haven't heard that name dropped in some years!

― orville reddenflocka (San Te), Sunday, 6 March 2011 18:53 (fifteen years ago)

seven months pass...

Crazy things, soft spoken..override.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 14 October 2011 05:09 (fourteen years ago)

Meanwhile, the new album's quite good! They seem to have found just the right balance for themselves and their age to keep making it work in a subtler but still textured and engaging way.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 October 2011 16:32 (fourteen years ago)

i honestly have not given any of their newer music a chance. i'm horrible i know.
want to recommend a specific track or two?

― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 21 October 2011 16:43 (fourteen years ago)

Well this newest, Handover, comes out next week, so you might enjoy "Cullorblind" and "Wavy" as 'newer' songs, to my ear, while "Point" and "Vyrisus" work in slightly older forms. There's less of the careening chaos now but Key is still a sharp as hell arranger.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 21 October 2011 16:48 (fourteen years ago)

Thermo, did you ever hear "Pro-Test" off of Greater Right of the Wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXT6KrX-PF4

― do not wake the dragon (DJP), Friday, 21 October 2011 17:01 (fourteen years ago)

yup. Greater Right... is sort of when i was decided i wasn't interested in the newer stuff!

― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 21 October 2011 17:07 (fourteen years ago)

one year passes...

Classic: Skinny Puppy and the Too Dark Park artwork

Dud: People who taken part in the thread devoted to saying Skinny Puppy art was especially bad, TDP in particular.

I had toyed with posting in the Bad Album Covers thread but it just makes me overwhelmingly angry that so many people dismiss so much eccentric strange beauty as ugly and praise really bland art as "iconic" and "classy". I love a lot of that weird old painted art of old prog albums with touches of surrealism, Chameleons album covers and lots of other similar stuff. It isnt always to my liking but I respect it because it has personality. I particularly like the Semiramis album cover.

...but yeah, I only have TDP and am looking forward to more!

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 23 February 2013 18:12 (thirteen years ago)

two months pass...

New single, "paraGun", off the forthcoming LP, Weapon.

Not bad.

http://youtu.be/kUCatOT1D-Q

― DavidM, Friday, 3 May 2013 16:10 (thirteen years ago)

five months pass...

you know what, aside from "Worlock" and "Tin Omen" Rabies is kind of boring

― a dessicated quasi-tsunami of gut-busting cosmic - tech (DJP), Thursday, 31 October 2013 19:08 (twelve years ago)

but "Worlock" and "Tin Omen" are career-defining masterpieces on par with their early work so it all kind of comes out in the positive column anyway

― a dessicated quasi-tsunami of gut-busting cosmic - tech (DJP), Thursday, 31 October 2013 19:08 (twelve years ago)

I thought that was the general consensus on that album?

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 October 2013 19:28 (twelve years ago)

Yeah, I'm just going through the album again for the first time in a long time and reading my positive comments upthread and thinking "man, it wasn't just Ministry that suffered from Al's fall-off"

― a dessicated quasi-tsunami of gut-busting cosmic - tech (DJP), Thursday, 31 October 2013 19:30 (twelve years ago)

three months pass...

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/feb/07/skinny-puppy-payment-guantanamo

― nostormo, Friday, 7 February 2014 21:13 (twelve years ago)

Wow, hope they get the money.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 7 February 2014 22:20 (twelve years ago)

five years pass...

can't get enough of remission and bites

― american bradass (BradNelson), Sunday, 15 December 2019 17:41 (six years ago)

I wore a Skinny Puppy shirt to a Christmas party last night.

― circa1916, Sunday, 15 December 2019 18:02 (six years ago)

I'm long overdue for a re-listen to the entire discography. when I first got into hard industrial, Too Dark Park was my entry point.

"Tormentor" is still my fav Skuppy track.

― 100 Percent That Grinch (Neanderthal), Sunday, 15 December 2019 22:35 (six years ago)

Also my first SP album. Had no frame of reference for it and it kinda blew my mind. Spasmolytic is pure, driving evil and has always been my go-to on that one.

― circa1916, Sunday, 15 December 2019 23:23 (six years ago)

I jumped off the SP wagon in 1990 so know and love everything up until Too Dark Park. What is essential that i have missed?

― stirmonster, Monday, 16 December 2019 00:12 (six years ago)

aside from Last Rights, not a lot tbh.

― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 16 December 2019 00:14 (six years ago)

Too Dark Park and Last Rights probably them at the top of their game, so yeah, those two. Can ignore the rest.

― circa1916, Monday, 16 December 2019 01:17 (six years ago)

The album that "Pro-Test" is on is pretty good

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Monday, 16 December 2019 01:53 (six years ago)

damn after bites these guys get ugly as hell don't they

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:08 (six years ago)

i'm at vivisectvi which is a great record but my favorite part is the second half where they remember they're in the club ("who's laughing now?" -> "testure")

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:10 (six years ago)

my favorite so far is mind: the perpetual intercourse which was unexpected because that album freaked me out so bad in college that i threatened to never get into skinny puppy

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:12 (six years ago)

Last rights is incredible. Check the track “scrapyard”

― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:16 (six years ago)

i can't wait to get it! all i want to do is listen to skinny puppy

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:18 (six years ago)

M:TPI is great

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:23 (six years ago)

Last Rights is the only Skinny Puppy I actually own on CD, yet is probably my least favourite of the run from 84-92 (although I haven't actually heard Too Dark Park or Cleanse Fold and Manipulate tbf). I still like it. but Remission is amazing. Bites/Mind/Vivisectvi/Rabies are all great

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:37 (six years ago)

Too Dark Park > Last Rights

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 15:39 (six years ago)

cleanse fold and manipulate blows me away bc it has stuff as accessible and funky as "addiction" and "tear or beat" and "deep down trauma hounds" sitting near "draining faces," which is maybe the song i'd use to introduce someone to the concept of "industrial," it embodies so many aspects of the genre while going at least as hard as throbbing gristle, and "the mourn," which just sounds straight up satanic to me. different rooms in a club in hell: the album

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 22:37 (six years ago)

i love the ... playfulness (?) of the sampling in "anger"

― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 18 December 2019 22:47 (six years ago)

Cleanse Fold and Manipulate was my SP entry point; american bradass nails all that is great about that album.

It is one of thee masterclasses in how to use a sampler creatively.

― stirmonster, Thursday, 19 December 2019 00:53 (six years ago)

is there a particular reason that, after three albums in hell, rabies feels like the long-awaited sequel to bites

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 15:17 (six years ago)

i guess the presence of al jourgensen kind of explains it but mostly explains why "fascist jockitch" exists

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 15:22 (six years ago)

I only like two songs on Rabies but those two songs ("Worlock", "Tin Omen") are career highlights

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 19 December 2019 16:16 (six years ago)

Listened to their singles compilation this morning while walking to the laundromat and doing laundry. Their music is excellent for being outside in 20-degree (Fahrenheit) weather.

― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 16:25 (six years ago)

only have 2 of their late era albums in the archive, 'Mythmaker', and 'Handover', which are pretty good, especially 'Mythmaker'.
unfortunately their classic stuff rarely turns up on cds over this side of the water.
used to have CF&M on tape when it was released and recall it being a pretty scary listen.
going to have to track it down again now though ..

― mark e, Thursday, 19 December 2019 16:32 (six years ago)

i can tell you that this is already one of my favorite skinny puppy songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH5lSONTo5o

it's so... catchy

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 18:43 (six years ago)

"worlock" is also undeniable

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 18:56 (six years ago)

the "helter skelter" samples are hilarious

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 18:56 (six years ago)

and while i really like psalm 69, "tin omen" is my preferred idea of thrash metal industrial

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:04 (six years ago)

what a headtrip

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:04 (six years ago)

My issue with "Hexonxonx" is my problem with every song on Rabies that wasn't a single; after about 90 seconds, I start going "okay yes, I get the point; now do something else"

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:08 (six years ago)

but it has that vortex of samples toward the end

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:12 (six years ago)

though i think i might be a weirdo who loves rabies

― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:13 (six years ago)

Yeah but before it gets to that point I've skipped ahead to "Worlock"

― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Thursday, 19 December 2019 19:14 (six years ago)

I love Rabies

― Bublé in the changer, I wish I was dead (Neanderthal), Thursday, 19 December 2019 22:41 (six years ago)

I’ve really enjoyed this revive and few things are more gratifying than watching someone with good taste experience something you love. Which is why I’ve watched way too many of those Lost in Vegas Youtube videos I guess.

My entry point was TDP and it will always be my favorite, but also rate Bites/Remission (yeah, I had the double CD so I’ll always mentally combine them), VIVIsect, and Last Rights, as my favorites. I also used to watch the Ain’t It Dead Yet? VHS probably more than was healthy. I never got to see them live. M:TPI and CF&M great, too. Also loved Back & Forth Vol. 2, the Spasmolytic EP, and I think the Inquisition single which had an amazing instrumental version of Mirror Saw that is one of my favorite standalone SP tracks.

― beard papa, Friday, 20 December 2019 02:41 (six years ago)

too dark park is the gnarliest and coolest album ever made

― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 27 December 2019 20:46 (six years ago)

last rights is even gnarlier and weirdly kind of loses me at that absolute terminus of gnarly. gonna keep trying though

― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 27 December 2019 20:49 (six years ago)

but like rash reflection -> nature’s revenge -> shore lined poison is the greatest shit i’ve ever heard

― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 27 December 2019 20:50 (six years ago)

ten months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ldM6DQ24bA

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 21:22 (five years ago)

Good taste!
Ooh, he got good taste!

― stirmonster, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 22:26 (five years ago)

one month passes...

.@cEvinKey of @skinnypuppy_ changed his album title from "Xwayxway" to "Resonance."

The album is inspired by an Indigenous village located in Vancouver but some objected to Xwayxway as a title. Out of respect for them, he changed the title.

That's how you be an ally. pic.twitter.com/KZKmUxZl6r
— Brian O'Neill (@NYC__Native) January 19, 2021

― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 19 January 2021 21:44 (five years ago)

one year passes...

Getting into Vivisectvi. Is this band getting more credit now with the trend of cyberpunk music and aesthetics? Feel like there's an opputunity for lots of new fans at this moment

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 15 October 2022 16:29 (three years ago)

I’ve maintained that classic SP’s evaluation outside of old goth heads has been due for a long time. It’s time for the kids to make it happen already.

― circa1916, Saturday, 15 October 2022 23:18 (three years ago)

They’re pretty deep down in that industrial niche. Once the hip kids make their way through Psychic TV, Einstürzende Neubauten, and EDM, then they’ll be ready.

― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Sunday, 16 October 2022 02:27 (three years ago)

Fuck fuck fuck abort. You know what I meant.

― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Sunday, 16 October 2022 02:28 (three years ago)

Skinny Puppy were upper echelon of the niche, hardly buried.

EB and Psychic TV have had cool cred forever and occupy an adjacent, but different sphere.

― circa1916, Sunday, 16 October 2022 03:26 (three years ago)

Similarly messing up acronyms over here haha.

― circa1916, Sunday, 16 October 2022 03:29 (three years ago)

four months pass...

Vivisectvi is really good but I don't think the bonus tracks/EP at the end of CD copies was a good idea, the tracks are fine and there's some albums I love having the bonus tracks (lots of 4AD EPs at the end of albums) but it didn't work for me this time. Clips from films seem to bother me when I know what the film is, I find it a little distracting at times.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 27 February 2023 21:13 (three years ago)

i had never heard Funguss before (the other 2 bonus tracks are 12" b-sides). i dig it.

i've been listening to The Centre Bullet again lots recently and it seems amazing to me it was only ever a CD bonus track, although of course it has a second life as a Tear Garden song too.

― stirmonster, Monday, 27 February 2023 21:28 (three years ago)

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRdbFMZghH8

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 8 April 2023 18:18 (three years ago)

eight months pass...

They're done, having just completed a four-night stand in L.A. Interesting separate interviews with Ogre and Key.

― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Friday, 8 December 2023 05:38 (two years ago)

Full respect, wish I had made the journey to see the tour. They stand near Bauhaus for me in the echoing influence of oppressive darkness always taken one step further. I think Too Dark Park was the peak. Am also a HUGE stan for the Hilt side project. I have more minutes listening to Hilt than SP I think...

― Psychocandy Apple Grey (Pyschocandles), Friday, 8 December 2023 07:17 (two years ago)

seven months pass...

Deej got me onto the Doubting Thomas album and omg it's so good? Like how did I not know about this prior.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 01:00 (one year ago)

Better late than never!

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 01:40 (one year ago)

fucked up that i've never heard this before either

― ivy., Tuesday, 9 July 2024 01:58 (one year ago)

You terrible person or something

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 02:07 (one year ago)

I got given that as a youngish teenager (who was mostly in to fairly mundane stuff) by my uncle who used to tour with them and it kind of altered how I saw music. Haven't heard it in years tho

― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Tuesday, 9 July 2024 14:02 (one year ago)

Half of my answering machine messages from my freshman year of college were recordings of various Doubting Thomas songs.

― Methuselah/Van Winkle ‘24 (DJP), Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:02 (one year ago)

my taste the last three years has shifted to 'djp's taste in 1992' to a dramatic degree

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:06 (one year ago)

Take some Dan and some Ned and you mix em up in a pot / Sprinkle a little stirmonster on top

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:07 (one year ago)

damn never even heard of this before, sandwiched between two great SP albums even

― brimstead, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:19 (one year ago)

xpost A fine approach, even if I am biased by default.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:35 (one year ago)

I'm convinced Dwayne Goettel was the Cliff Burton of Skinny Puppy.

― beard papa, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 19:37 (one year ago)

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