The fat one out of Pop Idol is gonna win aint she?

Sex sells the damn thing.

She'll sing what she's given. Her weight will probably be used as an excuse when she doesn't sell, but it probably won't be the sole cause.

i) Whether Calum would be able to resist trolling the board about Michelle? (answer: no, obv)

ii) How we would market Michelle?

She'll be sold as a Radio 2 artist, obviously - big ballads, torch songs, broken-hearted stuff, yes there will be a subtext of 'I can't find love because I'm big' but use your imagination Calum, there's a lot of people out there who can empathise with heartbreak. The people behind Pop Idol are experts at selling music - they have that Sam bloke to be the heart-throb, with Michelle they can corner a totally different bit of the market.

it will fail.

pop idol was rubbish this year.

i want a jane birkin chick to rock my world.

beth orton? eww...

never!

beth ditto is hot.

i'm ill jim, forgive me.

*cough cough*

also why LISTEN to Britney if you only seem interested in wanking over her?

do you really think michelle is a brilliant pop star tom?

the only interesting thing that came out of the recent pop idol is girls aloud ... for factors i'm not going to get into.

michelle is destined to be the one true voice of the show.

Matt DC is OTM - I think people are voting for the show not the after-show career.

Beth Ditto = lead singer of the Gossip. She is great.

no prizes for guessing what i misread this as

This one?

If people *do* start voting for the after-show career rather than what they've just seen, that's the moment the whole thing starts to die, right?

it may have the effect of the girl 'i'll do anything for fame, me' plus violent outbursts' aloud v. one true voice. the public want something different.

but i think michelle has the appearance of being different but not the cool, apathetic and vicious personality of girls aloud. i think that is why she is pitted against mark. mark is such the pop idol stereotype.

will young - gay;
chick from fame academy - gay;
girls aloud - the patrick bateman popsociopaths addicted to fame;
and poor michelle only has her fatness going for her.

this isnt different - this is completely normal now.

plus it would have the added gross-out factor of me contributing to calum's jerk off fantasies.

Michelle's delivery of "I Say A Little Prayer" was absoutely woeful. She held the tune but had obv. not thought about the song for even a second and was overdoing it by about 400%. The joy of that song is its smallness, its relative lack of huge emotion.

That Sam fellow is just such an obvious Redcoat.

*The guy who speaks about me in the pub with his mates. AMAZING. Thankyou. Very sad. Like, ILX has no bearing on my life whatsoever but you guys chat about me. Funny!

*C-Man went to bed. That's why he was not around.

My point still stands. The chick clearly enjoys overindulgening in cookies and big Macs - maybe she could be a poster child for Dunkin Donuts, but otherwise I know I don't want my pop stars to look like that. Or the ginger tit steward from Mogwai.

i don't.

tim, i think yer point is spot-on. her 'a say a little prayer' was completely devoid of emotion - which in itself - is an amazing feat considering it is near impossible to sing that song without conveying some form of emotion.

actually, maybe calum is right, calum represents the buying public of all those dido, holly valance and rachel stevens records, i always wondered who bought those and now that i've met the representation i no longer wonder. thanks calum! one less thing to think about.

Having said that, much as I love Michelle and think she's got a great voice and good talent, she did do very badly last Saturday and I was as surprised as she was (by the look on her face) that she made it to the final. Still, I'll be voting for her tomorrow night.

And other rhetorical questions of our time.

Oh Rob M - that CD is in the post to you finally, sorry for the delay, not down to pure laziness, honest injun...

i did mean it.

if he could think of something else than yeah, cool but its just the same post, over and over again. i like pop idol conversations.

Oh thanks DJ Mencap, I'd forgotten about it actually. Now, I must do that CD-R for Kate that I promised her...

what odds her album will be called 'Larger Than Life' tho?

didja see the show when the american winner came on and belted out that song - it made the uk pop idols sad and redundant instantly.

michelle is better than the other big girl ... wot's her name. she was cloying. but not by much.

'yeah i'm scottish'
'yeah i'm big'

the weirdest was seeing roxanne's ego get bigger and bigger with each show.

And now I can't remember what I was going to say).

Ah yes, I think Michelle's career will live or die on the songs that are chosen for her by 19 management. And seeing as Simon chose the two songs she performed so woefully last Saturday I'm not sure she will succeed. But she'll be marketed as a Radio 2 artiste from the start, she shouldn't do 'modern' dance numbers (so Calum will be happy).

I'll give World Idol a go, but I'm not sure if I'll be into it. I'll be open minded for a while...

1. Top 100 Worst Records
2. Top 100 Musicals
3. World Idol
4. Pop Idol final
5-1,000. All other TV programs even the 'last' Only Fools And Horses.
1001. Jools Holland's Hogmanay

But the list of 100 Worst Records was so pitiful... all the usual suspects... bar humbug...

dull except for the shocking and racist shows that british television green lighted.

Not that many of C4's core audience has even seen 100 musicals!!!

100 absolute beginners
99....

(IIRC there is a very good and very old thread about musicals in the archive)

Ahhhhh... "Heil Honey I'm Home"

The list to choose from.

I understand England just a little bit more and my repulsion of this understanding grows just a little bit more.

I like loads of musicals, actually, but I must admit I can't imagine why anyone would vote for anything except for "high society".

but the undercurrent of the climate of britain in the 70s still hangs in the air. its just hidden carefully.

o.k., i know its very ilx to be all ironic - but do you people realise that you've had a racist cunt with not 1/10 imagination of chris morris making television shows for you, which the british public paid for, that were, in all senses of the word, very - unironic.

but the undercurrent of the climate of britain in the 70s still hangs in the air. its just hidden carefully.

o.k., i know its very ilx to be all ironic - but do you people realise that you've had a racist cunt with not 1/10 imagination of chris morris making television shows for you, which the british public paid for, that were, in all senses of the word, very - unironic.

Yeah, if only our TV was up to the great moral stature of Fox et al. What a great world that would be.
Britain has changed since the Seventies. In America you may have clamped down on hate language, but you still lock Muslims up without trial too.

The whole rosy-eyed view of '70's and '80's television does hide a lot of real horror, a lot of which was very, very popular.

a) I didn't and
b) I don't even know what racist cunt you're talking about!!

This is all true, but we also had Alan Clarke, Mike Leigh, etc etc etc.

(x-post)

those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.

but even more tactfully is this bit of advice i recieved from a scottish gentleman who told me:

"remember this - just because everyone speaks english, does not mean, the culture is the same"

I think Pop Idol did one thing right - I look forward to each Girls Aloud video to see much skin the one with the long dark hair is going to show. She's fine.

If Michelle's attempt at pop stardom fails she could always become one of them girls you see on debating problems who howls and moans about society objectifying women through the sale of "Loaded" magazine etc when she'd kill to have the figure of a Nell MacPherson. Gawd, fat girls are so two faced.

2xpost

norman, yes, i do realise that - sometimes i have to step back and go 'woah'. i come at things completely differently because i am canadian, i suppose.

I love you guys.

but does it matter? no.

anyways.

can we go back to the pop idol discussions?

Calum, size isn't everything.

It isn't funny, if it's only you laffing...

Except fat.

that was the first time on ilx that you've made me laugh!

I think he meant Jim Davidson, but the point was (I think) that because Britain has had racist comics on TV, we are irredeemable and stuck in the Seventies.

"I'm no 'omophobe. Look at my record collection - Elton John, Pet Shop Boys, Queen - they're all bummers"

racist cunt is the one fellow who was allowed to write not one, but three of those racist shows. to be honest i was never so shocked by a television clip as i was by the shows on that program. but again i am a neophyte with english culture. so maybe the whole nuance is lost on me because i'm looking very much from the outside and not the inside of racism as an institution within english television.

but back to pop idol.

P.S. Smelly pumps was one of mine. But how is that homophobic?

-- C-Man (cma...), December 17th, 2003.

(I dunno why that just occured to me, he said as he unclogged the local salvation army's dc04 yadda yadda)

As an aside, as DJ Mencap might recall from last year's Evening Post (I think he's from Bristol) Jim Davidson doesn't actually make a secret of racism. He was thrown out of a hotel while doing panto for claiming the service was inferior "because they employed too many blacks".

Manning claims he isn't, but that someone has to be the butt of his jokes and he, in fact, lives next door to a "Paki" and also has one as his dentist. Having seen the documentary on him in India, he actually looked more like a fish out of water than a racist and from the evidence in that show (The Entertainers?) where he spent it all in his underpants it's not that hard to believe...

Back on Pop Idol, I can't be the only one who hasn't been that impressed by Michelle since the start. Mark had two decent weeks once they got to the knockout and has somehow ridden off the back of that ever since, despite being in the 'not safe' zone nearly every week. It hasn't been the same for me since Suzanne left, as I thought she was the only one with a bit of individuality and personality.

(x-post - sorry dom, my stepdad is a manning fan, and he doesn't make me laugh at all)

england is neurotic and fucked up. why o why didnt i move to spain, france or italy?

why o why didnt i move to spain, france or italy?

Indeed, these countries have no racism, history of imperialism, or of fascism -- we're the sick ones all the way...

i think britain does offer it up - but its just hidden. being an immigrant in this country offers me fresh experiences on yer nationalism. at least the french love canadians!

america is an open sore of race issues. with britain its hidden and thus more neurotic.

yes, yes, england is wonderful.

my, how is the weather in your area?

judging by the fucking terrible stand ups we used to get when I used to do the pa system job, I've no doubt you're right. I used to sit behind the desk praying for it to end sometimes. No amount of money would have been enough to pay for the mental torture of sitting through some of these people's acts. I shit you not, the one and only decent act we supplied a pa for was jo brand. You'd never know it from seeing her on the telly, but she was really really funny, plus compared to the ego wank shit of 90% of the acts referred to (both local and national) she was really nice, and totally non egotistical. I tried to like her on tv b/c of this, but I just couldn't.

Peter Cook
Peter Kay
Steve Coogan
Al Murray
Simon Munnery
Rob Newman
Lee Evans
Jack Dee
etc.

Further to thee above, I remember the gig where jo brand did her act, skycl4d (deranged folk-metal act) were playing in the downstairs part of the venue, and after we set up the stage mics, they did their soundcheck. the singer got up, and went:

AARRH OBEY ME. I AM THE ULTIMATE MACHINE

and I just fucking freaked out. I had to leave the hall. I figured that was the best laugh I'd get all evening, BUT NO!!!

Rob Newman was very very funny, as was Lee Evans at first (pre Something About Mary).

USA and...?

(Name escapes me for a mo)

(x post = funny bones)

IMDB connections XIV

Plot Outline: Jerry Lewis plays a Nazi clown who leads children to the gas chamber in a concentration camp.

User Comments: Sounds as if it might have worked in the right hands

No, he's talking about Funny Bones, with Oliver Platt. It's a very strange and great movie, and Evans is amazing in it.

Is this the winner of Norwegian Pop Idol?

User Comments: Sounds as if it might have worked in the right hands

Hahahaha very good.

Aldo_Cowpat... I'm actually in Cardiff but I remember the Davidson quote quite well... there was this amazing bit in the Daily Mail* the other week, it was an interview with one of Jim's beleaguered ex-wives.

It's the anniversary of the Falklands (doesn't say which year) and Jim is in front of the telly in full military regalia, standing up and saluting the plucky heroes on the screen. His wife comes in with his dinenr on a tray and walks in front of the telly, puts the tray down and Jim goes completely mental at her for getting in the way, chucks the tray at the wall and probably blackens her eye.

By remarkable coincidence I walked past Simon Weston in the high street earlier.

*I was reading it while getting my hair cut

And the UK has long opposed the bigotry in Israel. I think we're a less racist country than America.

God, read what I say next time you licker of dead donkey's nuts.

Er, right -- but the BRITISH National Party actually belives in ENGLISH domination of the rest, of course. There's no such thing as the 'British' nation. Each country is 'very different,' except all are dominated politically by England, and the English tongue, and the fourth, Northern Ireland, is in no way a 'nation'.
And is British nationalism (ie English nationalism) really the 'most atrocious thing ever'? Worse than Nazism?

On your passport you're "British" by the way.

its hilarious that you mention his 'roleplaying' though. after all, you are the past master, eh Sonny?
only difference being that all your alter-egos are as backward as each other.

i read as much as what c-man reads of others.

Yes.

Or "Not saying what you really feel."

Having the other finallists (anyone else notice the absence of Leon?) made me pine for Suzanne. I never really appreciated how great she was in comparison to the others. She definitely could have been marketed to the Dido/Norah Jones market (except been good) and made a shitload for 19, a lot more than any of the others' single-based careers would have.

australia have no good stand-ups. they all suck. all of them. no exceptions.

-- David Allen (Davidalle...), December 20th, 2003.

Correct - I'm sorry, but I don't want my POP in the shape of someone who looks like two tonnes of stale porridge poured into a size 20 dress...

if all born again christians look like that, where do i sign up?

I do believe I have seen that face a few times during the past 7-8 months, yes :-)

i think i might agree with doomie about spain being less insidiously racist than britain, but i dont think so about france, which i think is an extremely racist country on a number of levels, both overtly but also neurotically hidden. italy is an interesting case, there is certainly overt racism, but probably less of the under-the-carpet variety

this is the first pop-idol i havent seen, many of the interesting posts on this thread (particularly tom and doomie) make me wish i had though. liberty x still seem to have been the biggest winners from it though, by being enough of a blank canvas for people not to get bored

funny, that

Anyway!!!! Dunno why it started with something Channel 4's "received opinion" about that flipping "Heil" proggy!!!! I mean, have they actually investigated anything about it or did they just read the tabloid "outrage"?!??!!? "Heil Honey, I'm Home" was an 'outrageous' sitcom broadcast on the old BSB satellite channel in 1990 to an audience of about 4 viewers!!!! It was a complete and utter pisstake in the (by then dated) really really obvious 1980s UK 'alternative comedy' sense!!!! (Basically, equating the traditional sitcom family with the Nazis!!!!) The plotline ("Adolf Hitler and his wife Eva live somewhere in 1930s American suburbia, next door to a Jewish couple, Arny and Rosa Goldenstein, and their dour niece, Ruth." Erm!!!!) and the deliberately contrived pantomine touches that virtually screamed "DON'T PANIC!!!! THIS IS A PARODY!!!!" basically told you all needed to know!!!!! The only sense in which it was offensive was the quality of the writing, which apparently wasn't that much cop!!!! The only reason it's "infamous" is because it got buried under a welter controversy stoked up by tabloids such as the Sun, who, coincidentelly enough were owned by the same boss who owned the competing Sky satellite channels!!!! This show can't be compared to shows in the 70s with yer actual serious racism issues, from the dodgy stuff ("Mind Your Language" or "Curry and Chips"), to clearly taking the piss out of it ("Till Death Do Us Part", "Rising Damp"), or sitting-on-the-fence-trying-to-have-their-cake-and-eat-it ("Love Thy Neighbour", "Ain't Half Hot Mum"). You're just not going to get shows like that made any more, (With the exception of the "Let's Take The Piss Out Of The Daft Bigot" type stuff like Al Murray) because despite all the moaning about "PC" and whatnot, people just don't funny any more!!!!!

God yes! (slaps head)

Pop Idol/Fame Academy. Now that the fat lady has sung, can it please all be over?